16177 réponses à ce sujet

[Barbarossa2010]

Fates end wrote...

So....it seems if I have the 360 version, I'm pretty much toasted in trying to get the full Morrigan romance?  (Didn't read the entire thread.  but it sounds like there's a fair amount of major bugs/missing lines).

You are correct.  Patches on XBOX Live are rare and it is highly unlikely anyone will care enough to fix this mess on PC, much less the XBOX 360.  We have no toolset and zero ability to influence things beyond the normal game...err, well beyond, eploits of course.  (Did I just say that out loud?) .Just be thankful you are not on a PS3; at least we do get patches and our DLC comes in on time.  Those guys are getting no attention whatsoever.  Have they finally release RTO yet on the PS3?  I don't know for sure, but I know it was way too long delayed.   

It is interesting to note the discoveries of the PC community however.  You're input is still welcome here because BW has a habit of responding to the demands and requests of their player community.  So you ought to weigh in with you complaints.  Some exploits can be used on the 360, so be involved.  If it weren't for the PC players, and especially the modders, we would never have known how much we had been short changed in these infuriating, game-fun detracting romances.

Peace.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 12 avril 2010 - 01:24 .

[blademaster7]

ejoslin wrote...
Well, I can tell you that a warden who married Anora/Alistair for political reasons but ended the game at 100 Love with Zevran ended up staying with Anora/Alistair just get the "royal" epilogue card, not Zevran's epilogue card.  Whether this is what is intended, I have no clue.

So you don't get the Zevran/Leliana remained by your side bit? How lame.

Leliana is bugged anyway but that's old news. If she's "hardened" she accepts to be your mistress, but the game always gives you her "unhardened" response.

There is also a well known bug that causes Morrigan to give you the ring twice. I can't believe I forgot all about it.

Terra_ex add that to the bug list 

Modifié par blademaster7, 12 avril 2010 - 01:30 .

[ejoslin]

blademaster7 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Well, I can tell you that a warden who married Anora/Alistair for political reasons but ended the game at 100 Love with Zevran ended up staying with Anora/Alistair just get the "royal" epilogue card, not Zevran's epilogue card.  Whether this is what is intended, I have no clue.

So you don't get the Zevran/Leliana remained by your side bit? How lame.

Leliana is bugged anyway but that's old news. If she's "hardened" she accepts to be your mistress, but the game always gives you her "unhardened" response.

There is also a well known bug that causes Morrigan to give you the ring twice. I can't believe I forgot all about it.

Terra_ex add that to the bug list 

Nono, I'm talking about the end of Awakening.  The end of Origin gives you the right epilogue.

Modifié par ejoslin, 12 avril 2010 - 01:34 .

[Terra_Ex]

Didn't do a great deal yesterday, just a bit more cleanup on romance-enabling in the postgame, plus the toolset decided to have an epic meltdown - still we press on...

Are for the non-romancees, any issues with any known issues with Morrigan's friendship dialogs, I'd like to address them at the same time.

[quote]blademaster7 wrote...

Brilliant... Terra_Ex you are amazing...

I don't know how to mod, but I'll keep investigating and keep you informed.

[/quote]
Please do You're proven quite adept in picking out all the non-triggering and cut dialogues as well as a multitude of other issues that make no sense in their given context.


[quote]blademaster7 wrote...
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...

- Kiss scene restored for all races in Morrigan's "selfish bastard" dialogue. (Addai's save was very useful for this one)
[/quote]
I would love to see that. Keep in mind that there are more than one responses that lead to the kiss. The "you are insane" which makes her respond with "If I am 'tis because you make me so" also wields the same result.

It's there in the toolset. You can't miss it.
[/quote]
I thought you'd like that one Worry not, all the appropriate dialog paths lead to the kiss triggering, followed by her "you will regret this..." speech. Works both in camp, and out of camp if its just you and her and you initiate that dialog branch.




[quote]blademaster7 wrote...
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Still to do:
========
- Investigate dialogue that occurs when you take Morrigan to Flemeth's hut - can it be tied in with the next point.
[/quote]
ejoslin already fixed this. It's in the Zevran mod. may wanna take a look at that.
[/quote]
Yep, its probably the programmer in me but since I'm undertaking fixing every issue with Morrigan I've gotta understand the cause/effect of each of these issues myself, not just the solution.

[quote]blademaster7 wrote...
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
- Investigate any remaining issues with Dark Ritual dialogue.
[/quote]
Hmmm.. you can tell her "Morrigan, I don't want to lose you" and it will get you an emotional response.

This is only available if you agree to send her to Alistair/Loghain. Just the notion of Morrigan bringing it up is ridiculous and the fact that the PC agreed.. even more so.

Can you please... please put this line in her discussion with the PC and leave Alistair/Loghain out of this?

Not necessary... but  everyone miisses it because no one in his right mind will send her to another man.

[/quote]
I'm in agreement here. At this point I'm willing to look at such instances as oversights/errors on the part of whoever put the dialogue file together. As you say, its a very inappropriate place to put the dialog branch. Hell, the whole notion of sending her off to someone else in that scene is pretty inappropriate for a romancing warden to begin with imo.


[quote]blademaster7 wrote...
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
- Any clashes with Leliana love triangle that need addressing?
[/quote]

If you break up with Morrigan during her "jealous" speach you can re-trigger the romance with the mirror exploit. You can get both of them to love and finish the game. The game usually forbits you from having 2 companions in love with you.

People who are greedy will just go ahead and do it, but I'm telling you how it's supposed to be.
[/quote]

Yeah, the mirror is a cheap and nasty way of forcing the primary romance flag to true and is in essence a psuedo bug. I will probably alter this after the Awakening module becomes moddable so as not to destroy the workaround.

[quote]blademaster7 wrote...
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
- blademaster says there's scripting comments regarding a kiss in the Dark Ritual scene?
[/quote]
No actual content here.
It's just an idea by the writer. Apparently they didn't go through with it because of limitations. If you want to try adding a kiss then all the better. Who am I to stop you? {smilie}
[/quote]

Yeah, I'm planning a to properly investigate the dark ritual scene and do some tweaking. The consensus seems to be Morrigan is too indifferent to a romancing warden at this point, thus contributing to the misconception of her as a cold hearted *****. As people have stated, the only way to get treated differently in this scene is to go through a very specific dialog branch, which tbh is very stupid in and of itself. The simple addition of a kiss at the appropriate moment would go some way to making the scene more involved and personal for a romancing warden and was most likely the original intent of the writers. As it stands the hard scripted plot triumphs over the player's ingame choices, a subject Barbarossa has posted several essays on already.





[quote]blademaster7 wrote...

[quote]ejoslin wrote...
Well, I can tell you that a warden who married Anora/Alistair for political reasons but ended the game at 100 Love with Zevran ended up staying with Anora/Alistair just get the "royal" epilogue card, not Zevran's epilogue card.  Whether this is what is intended, I have no clue.[/quote]
So you don't get the Zevran/Leliana remained by your side bit? How lame.

Leliana is bugged anyway but that's old news. If she's "hardened" she accepts to be your mistress, but the game always gives you her "unhardened" response.

There is also a well known bug that causes Morrigan to give you the ring twice. I can't believe I forgot all about it.

Terra_ex add that to the bug list 
[/quote]
Hmmm... never encountered that one myself but I have heard about it. It will be investigated.




[quote]Barbarossa2010 wrote...

[quote]Fates end wrote...

So....it seems if I have the 360 version, I'm pretty much toasted in trying to get the full Morrigan romance?  (Didn't read the entire thread.  but it sounds like there's a fair amount of major bugs/missing lines).


[/quote]

You are correct.  Patches on XBOX Live are rare and it is highly unlikely anyone will care enough to fix this mess on PC, much less the XBOX 360.  We have no toolset and zero ability to influence things beyond the normal game...err, well beyond, eploits of course.  (Did I just say that out loud?) .Just be thankful you are not on a PS3; at least we do get patches and our DLC comes in on time.  Those guys are getting no attention whatsoever.  Have they finally release RTO yet on the PS3?  I don't know for sure, but I know it was way too long delayed.  

It is interesting to note the discoveries of the PC community however.  You're input is still welcome here because BW has a habit of responding to the demands and requests of their player community.  So you ought to weigh in with you complaints.  Some exploits can be used on the 360, so be involved.  If it weren't for the PC players, and especially the modders, we would never have known how much we had been short changed in these infuriating, game-fun detracting romances.

Peace.
[/quote]
Aye, my Morrigan-infatuated Wardens on the 360 version feel your pain. On a plus side though, DA:O's requirements aren't that high, and you'll be able to buy/build a system that could run it at max pretty cheaply in a few years, so there's still the possibility you may get to experience the fixed up version, but sadly not on your platform of choice. The more I look at some of this stuff, the more I have to echo what others have said- I think its very unlikely BW will fix any of these issues.




[quote]blademaster7 wrote...

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...

Morrigan's comments never fail to make me laugh.

My favorite party banter in the game has to be Leliana discussing fashion with Morrigan.[/quote]
You know... that made me really curious to check all the banter between Leliana and Morrigan.

There are some amazing stuff I haven't seen before. I wonder if everything there is in the game.

Catfights!

Leliana:
"You should try a little harder next time he takes you. i don't think they heard you in the Anderfels."

And another one if you dumped Morrigan for leliana

Morrigan: "You mock me, but when he is in your arms telling you he loves you, know that there are moments when he
is thinking of me.
Leliana: Andraste forgive me, but you,Morrigan, are a ****. A cruel, cruel ****, and you will get your
comeuppeance.


Please tell me these lines are in the game... i want to hear them. The toolset doesn't play them.
[/quote]

Hmmm, has anyone been through the audio files for the party banter, its possible (though there's no guarantee) that the
recorded VAs are hidden away somewhere, but were not implemented due to time restrictions. Of course its equally probable that the lines were never recorded - they were likely dropped due to scheduling. A pity since there are some good exchanges in there, Considering the fact we've discovered instances like bringing Morrigan to Flemeth's hut that went unnoticed for months, its certainly worth looking into.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 12 avril 2010 - 04:43 .

[Master Shiori]

Thank you Terra for keeping us updated on your progress.



I for one am really looking forward to trying out the romance fix once it is done.

[blademaster7]

Terra_Ex wrote...
I thought you'd like that one Worry not, all the appropriate dialog paths lead to the kiss triggering, followed by her "you will regret this..." speech. Works both in camp, and out of camp if its just you and her and you initiate that dialog branch.

So you got it to work? I'm really curious to see how it will play out. The kissing animations are all the same. By reading the comments I got the impression that they were trying to create a more passionate kiss than the standard ones. Maybe that's why they the scrapped the whole thing. Laziness.

Terra_Ex wrote...

I'm in agreement here. At this point I'm willing to look at such instances as oversights/errors on the part of whoever put the dialogue file together. As you say, its a very inappropriate place to put the dialog branch. Hell, the whole notion of sending her off to someone else in that scene is pretty inappropriate for a romancing warden to begin with imo.

You know, this may be VERY difficult to implement. She's standing by the fire when she answers that line. What I had in mind is to have the PC say it while she is sitting on your bed. That's the only place it could fit, the part she says you won't see her again.

Leave this for last.... unless you think you can pull it off

Terra_Ex wrote...

Yeah, the mirror is a cheap and nasty way of forcing the primary romance flag to true and is in essence a psuedo bug. I will probably alter this after the Awakening module becomes moddable so as not to destroy the workaround.

You have a point. I find it really ironic that in order to "un-bug" the Awakening ending you have to use an exploit to "bug" the OC.

Terra_Ex wrote...
Yeah, I'm planning a to properly investigate the dark ritual scene and do some tweaking. The consensus seems to be Morrigan is too indifferent to a romancing warden at this point, thus contributing to the misconception of her as a cold hearted *****. As people have stated, the only way to get treated differently in this scene is to go through a very specific dialog branch, which tbh is very stupid in and of itself. The simple addition of a kiss at the appropriate moment would go some way to making the scene more involved and personal for a romancing warden and was most likely the original intent of the writers. As it stands the hard scripted plot triumphs over the player's ingame choices, a subject Barbarossa has posted several essays on already.

Another task that seems almost impossible. The devs didn't make this easy for us did they? You will have to work with cutscenes and cinematics to make this work.


----

The glitch that makes her give you the ring twice seems easy to fix.


If her approval reaches 71+(ADORE) she will simply offer it. This will come up no matter what.

She also gives you the "jealous" speech if you're romancing Leliana or Zevran at the same time. If you pick her and dump Leliana/Zevran she'll give you the ring. I'm pretty sure this comes BEFORE the "Adore" speech.

So, if you happen to be romancing Leliana and get Morrigan's approval to 71+ she'll force you to choose and give you the ring immediately after you pick her. Next time you speak to her the "adore" speech will come up and give you the ring... again... as well as additional approval.

Doesn't sound terrible and gamebreaking... but, hey, we're trying to fix all the Morrigan bugs and not just the bad ones, riiighhtt??

Modifié par blademaster7, 12 avril 2010 - 04:47 .

[Terra_Ex]

blademaster7 wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...

I'm in agreement here. At this point I'm willing to look at such instances as oversights/errors on the part of whoever put the dialogue file together. As you say, its a very inappropriate place to put the dialog branch. Hell, the whole notion of sending her off to someone else in that scene is pretty inappropriate for a romancing warden to begin with imo.

You know, this may be VERY difficult to implement. She's standing by the fire when she answers that line. What I had in mind is to have the PC say it while she is sitting on your bed. That's the only place it could fit, the part she says you won't see her again.

Leave this for last.... unless you think you can pull it off

Well, on the plus side, the cutscene editing/setup and how the whole thing works in Dragon Age is VERY similar to animation within 3DS Max, which luckily I have experience using. That's not to say it'll be an easy task though, we'll see what happens 


Also, since I appear to be having a slow day - which dialogue branch is that ejoslin said relates to the Real Grimoire - is it the "you return from the wilds have you any news" that currently is not appearing in game.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 12 avril 2010 - 05:00 .

[blademaster7]

That one is supposed to trigger after you finish her side quest. I don't know where do you get it though... most likely at camp.

The other cut scene where she confronts you if you take her to the hut is fixed in ejoslin's mod.

Anyway... may I ask how to you guys manage to fix these things? In most cases, I find the issues but I can't fix anything. What export method do you use and what files do you transfer into your override folder?

Modifié par blademaster7, 12 avril 2010 - 05:14 .

[Barbarossa2010]

@Terra Ex:

"Aye, my Morrigan-infatuated Wardens on the 360 version feel your pain. On a plus side though, DA:O's requirements aren't that high, and you'll be able to buy/build a system that could run it at max pretty cheaply in a few years, so there's still the possibility you may get to experience the fixed up version, but sadly not on your platform of choice. The more I look at some of this stuff, the more I have to echo what others have said- I think its very unlikely BW will fix any of these issues."
------------------

My current PC will run it. I weened myself off of PC gaming several years back (when the XBOX 360 came out) in the (now apparently futile) attempt to streamline my gaming experience. XBOX 360 and Live have completely revolutionized multi-player gaming and I just won't be able to give that up; instantaneous multiplayer and match-making are not the same in the PC arena. Games like GOW, HALO, ODST, (XBOX exclusive) and even COD MW and MW2 just have a quicker, better, more responsive MP experience on the console and it's built-in network. Turn on the machine and you're in a match. Can't beat it.

Having said that, I think you guys have convinced me to partially go back to PC. I was looking at a new one anyway; go heavy on the graphics card (for CRYSIS and such) and I may just have to pick up my first PC game in years, replay it and monkey around with it's toolset (hint, hint).

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 12 avril 2010 - 05:21 .

[Terra_Ex]

@blademaster
After making the changes and saving, select the files that you've made alterations to, Export>Without Dependant Resources. This sticks the exported files in:

MyDocuments/BioWare/Dragon Age/modules/Single Player/override/toolsetexport

This is a valid override directory so you don't have to move them anywhere else BUT has a lower precedence than the standard my documents override and the program files/packages/core/override directories, so if files with the same name exist in either of those, yours will be ignored.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 12 avril 2010 - 05:34 .

[Barbarossa2010]

BTW, I finished my second playthrough of Mass Effect last night and I'm thinking Bioware may have just redeemed themselves with me. I've already picked-up ME2 and plan on starting it this week. I already know the romance to avoid **cough**MORINTH**cough**; and if they have fixed the shooter elements as I've heard they have, then all I can say is, I wish BW had built-in a multi-player; even CO-OP along the lines of Pinnacle Station (probably where I spent way too much time in the game and had the most fun).

Bottom line is that the romances in ME did not detract from the fun of the game and youfeel like a f@#%$&* hero in the end. Was that asking too much from the DA Team?

Seriously, do Role players like this doom and gloom storyline crap they seemed to be shooting for in DA? To me, it's just weird. All I can say is playing a game for 80 hours only to get kicked in the nads is not what I would consider a winning "keep 'em on the edge of their seats," demand building strategy for BW. The DA Team may want to take a lesson or two from the ME side of company.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 12 avril 2010 - 05:42 .

[Terra_Ex]

Well, I enjoyed the whole thing except the Dark Ritual simply because at that point its essentially saying:

"Yep, we know that you romanced Morrigan, BUT lets ignore that and force this dialogue onto you anyway."

It's not the fact that Morrigan vanishes afterward that annoys me (bugged epilogue aside) its the way that particular scene is handled specifically for a male warden romancing her, and the way the scene doesn't change unless you follow a specific set of choices. Unlike the Mass Effect series, where BW has stated there will be a trilogy, we instead get a healthy dose of uncertainty, no guarantee that our Warden will be able to pick up where he left off - nothing. (add EA to the equation, a publisher notorious for killing franchises and shutting down developers) If BW lump me with a whole new character in DA2 and its him/her that is expected to conclude/continue the Morrigan plot thread sans my original warden, consider the ball dropped. So ultimately, the very presence of EA is what causes my trepidation - the entire ritual scene gets a big "RUSHED" stamp slapped across it for obvious reasons, I could go on but it'll just turn into an EA rant.

As for the story - I personally prefer DA's style of storytelling to Mass Effect's - plus I hated the decision to make everything a "mission" in ME2. The romances in ME1 & 2 are imo a long way off equalling the depth of Dragon Age's, and part of that due to the trappings of ME's sub-genre hybrid of shooter/rpg. So while they did not detract from the game, I wouldn't say they particularly add to it either. ME2 gameplay is far superior to the first, plus they fixed the lagging of the unreal engine for this outing, which impressed me.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 12 avril 2010 - 06:23 .

[Shade of Wolf]

Hey, so can someone please tell me the mirror fix thing, where you give her the mirror at post-epiogue save, do I save after she gives it to me and what save do I import then? A normal save or an autosave?

Please comment on my page because I will likely be away from this thread for long, and might miss it in the sea of rants lolz.

[Addai]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Bottom line is that the romances in ME did not detract from the fun of the game and youfeel like a f@#%$&* hero in the end. Was that asking too much from the DA Team?

Seriously, do Role players like this doom and gloom storyline crap they seemed to be shooting for in DA? To me, it's just weird. All I can say is playing a game for 80 hours only to get kicked in the nads is not what I would consider a winning "keep 'em on the edge of their seats," demand building strategy for BW. The DA Team may want to take a lesson or two from the ME side of company.

There is definitely something to be said for tragic beauty.  Far better that than treating what should be very emotional in a blah/ feh manner.  I really can't say much, since I haven't seen it yet myself, though hearing about how the DR is done with a Morrigan-romanced PC has demotivated me from finishing my Aedan character.

Then again, I do not like Mass Effect, I have tried and tried to get into it and can't.  I think that has more to do with how the PC is handled than the NPCs, however.  I hate being forced to play Shepard.

[Barbarossa2010]

Terra_Ex wrote...

Well, I enjoyed the whole thing except the Dark Ritual simply because at that point its essentially saying:

"Yep, we know that you romanced Morrigan, BUT lets ignore that and force this dialogue onto you anyway."

It's not the fact that Morrigan vanishes afterward that annoys me (bugged epilogue aside) its the way that particular scene is handled specifically for a male warden romancing her, and the way the scene doesn't change unless you follow a specific set of choices. Unlike the Mass Effect series, where BW has stated there will be a trilogy, we instead get a healthy dose of uncertainty, no guarantee that our Warden will be able to pick up where he left off - nothing. (add EA to the equation, a publisher notorious for killing franchises and shutting down developers) If BW lump me with a whole new character in DA2 and its him/her that is expected to conclude/continue the Morrigan plot thread sans my original warden, consider the ball dropped. So ultimately, the very presence of EA is what causes my trepidation - the entire ritual scene gets a big "RUSHED" stamp slapped across it for obvious reasons, I could go on but it'll just turn into an EA rant.

As for the story - I personally prefer DA's style of storytelling to Mass Effect's - plus I hated the decision to make everything a "mission" in ME2. The romances in ME1 & 2 are imo a long way off equalling the depth of Dragon Age's, and part of that due to the trappings of ME's sub-genre hybrid of shooter/rpg. So while they did not detract from the game, I wouldn't say they particularly add to it either. ME2 gameplay is far superior to the first, plus they fixed the lagging of the unreal engine for this outing, which impressed me.

I'll be honest with you.  I think alot of what irritates us about DA:O (I mean irritates to the point of maybe killing it) is EA induced.  I honestly don't think that Bioware would have issued the story and game as it was if they had self-published or even went back to MS Gaming Studios.  I was prepared to go on an EA rampage, but I see that we will only violently agree.

BTW, didn't they switch to Unreal 3 (+) for ME2?  That would fix a lot and explain a lot. Epic owns the world with the Unreal Engine at present. (And for those that desire to criticize, yes I know this is a DA forum, but what do you expect for free?)  I 'll give you some feedback later on comparisons to other Unreal Engine 3 based games I've played on; I think I've actually played most of the popular titles from Tournament to Turok to Gears.  Love the Engine; another feather in the cap of Bioware.

Back to topic: I also the think the romances superior (not necessarily as in-depth mind you) in ME because they didn't kill the game; they were a side amusement.  That's the only advantage.  But that said, the romances are quite engaging in DA, it's just you were left so flat and empty in the end.  Until they get it right, they should expect massive criticism until they can adequately meet player expectations.  This is a dangerous consequence of drawing players in emotionally.  They really shouldn't do it, until they can do it right.  Just my humble op.

[RogueWriter3201]

Terra_Ex wrote...

Well, I enjoyed the whole thing except the Dark Ritual simply because at that point its essentially saying:

"Yep, we know that you romanced Morrigan, BUT lets ignore that and force this dialogue onto you anyway."

It's not the fact that Morrigan vanishes afterward that annoys me (bugged epilogue aside) its the way that particular scene is handled specifically for a male warden romancing her, and the way the scene doesn't change unless you follow a specific set of choices. Unlike the Mass Effect series, where BW has stated there will be a trilogy, we instead get a healthy dose of uncertainty, no guarantee that our Warden will be able to pick up where he left off - nothing. (add EA to the equation, a publisher notorious for killing franchises and shutting down developers) If BW lump me with a whole new character in DA2 and its him/her that is expected to conclude/continue the Morrigan plot thread sans my original warden, consider the ball dropped. So ultimately, the very presence of EA is what causes my trepidation - the entire ritual scene gets a big "RUSHED" stamp slapped across it for obvious reasons, I could go on but it'll just turn into an EA rant.

As for the story - I personally prefer DA's style of storytelling to Mass Effect's - plus I hated the decision to make everything a "mission" in ME2. The romances in ME1 & 2 are imo a long way off equalling the depth of Dragon Age's, and part of that due to the trappings of ME's sub-genre hybrid of shooter/rpg. So while they did not detract from the game, I wouldn't say they particularly add to it either. ME2 gameplay is far superior to the first, plus they fixed the lagging of the unreal engine for this outing, which impressed me.

I know I'm not a member of the Modding Community, but I wanted to toss in my Two Cents. Digging around on gaming sights and fourms not too long ago I came across a number of casual interviews with the Dragon Age Dev Team members over the course of Dragon Age's production. From what I've been able to compile, when the DA series was originaly envisioned it was thier intent to make the series more Akin to the Neverwinter Nights series and it's expansions, i.e. each adventure would take place in the same world but have a new primary protaganist for each outing with the chance of encounting characters from previous games.

When the game was being promoted, BW called it the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, but frankly it's obviously more inspired by NWN, at least in implementation. Anyway, as mentioned, the Original plan was to have the game follow NWN's course; however, almost towards the close of production, when the game was ready to almost go Gold, the success of Mass Effect changed the game-plan.

The Dr.'s realized that people *Want* to continue a Heroes journey across an Epic story far more than playing a *New* character each time. In light of this, they had to scamble to change many aspects of the game to leave the Warden's story open as opposed to closing it out. In point of fact, one interview (and I'm sorry, I can't recall the link) indicated that, Originally, the Ultimate Sacrifice Ending had been intended to be *The* ending for the game and Warden. In Essence, closing things out and paving the way for a New Hero (The Orlesian Warden) to come in for the Expansion.

However, as mentioned, the Doctor's rushed to change things and the end result of that choice is what is now plaguing you Awesome Modders so much. Dialogue options that seem out of place or mixed up. Missing conversations, and even missing scenes. The fact is, Bioware learned thier lesson when KOTOR2 was released by Obsidian unfinished and bug ridden. It's not something they wanted to repeat with DA:O. Sadly, last minute Story and Character choices sort of put them in a bad place and sacrifices were implemented poorly. 

Now, on to the Silver Lining. Recent Interviews with the Dev teams, and you can find these interviews here in the Forum or on sites like Kotaku or IGN, hint clearly that for DA2, the lessons have been learned and we're in for a much tighter and far more complete Story experience. The Devs now know that we *Want* to remain as The Grey Warden, not as some new nameless Hero without giving us a choice. It's almost certain that BioWare will allow us to port the Warden into DA:2, or make a New Hero if we so choose.

So, despite the fact that I do not own DA:O for PC, and it's almost certain that DA:2 (which will be using the Unreal Engine just like ME2) will not be able to run on the PC I have now, I will have to contend myself with the Console version and take some small solace that the Sequel will be more of a complete experience than it's predesessor.  

[RogueWriter3201]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

@Terra Ex:

"Aye, my Morrigan-infatuated Wardens on the 360 version feel your pain. On a plus side though, DA:O's requirements aren't that high, and you'll be able to buy/build a system that could run it at max pretty cheaply in a few years, so there's still the possibility you may get to experience the fixed up version, but sadly not on your platform of choice. The more I look at some of this stuff, the more I have to echo what others have said- I think its very unlikely BW will fix any of these issues."
------------------

My current PC will run it. I weened myself off of PC gaming several years back (when the XBOX 360 came out) in the (now apparently futile) attempt to streamline my gaming experience. XBOX 360 and Live have completely revolutionized multi-player gaming and I just won't be able to give that up; instantaneous multiplayer and match-making are not the same in the PC arena. Games like GOW, HALO, ODST, (XBOX exclusive) and even COD MW and MW2 just have a quicker, better, more responsive MP experience on the console and it's built-in network. Turn on the machine and you're in a match. Can't beat it.

Having said that, I think you guys have convinced me to partially go back to PC. I was looking at a new one anyway; go heavy on the graphics card (for CRYSIS and such) and I may just have to pick up my first PC game in years, replay it and monkey around with it's toolset (hint, hint).

Wanted to ask a quick question. In regards to DA:O, I visited the "Can I Run It," website (which scans PC Rigs to see if they are compatible with most recent PC titles) and was shown that my PC is *just* over Minimum requirements, with everything in the green. However, I'm none the less confused. If my Rig is just *over* Minimum requirements, does that mean the game will run, but will not look very good or be plagued with Framerate issues when there is alot going on in the game at once? I'm hoping to have the chance to pick-up DA:O for the PC, but if it's just going to sit around like my Copy of The Witcher (which looks terrible on my PC) I'll pass.

[Master Shiori]

glenboy24 wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...

Well, I enjoyed the whole thing except the Dark Ritual simply because at that point its essentially saying:

"Yep, we know that you romanced Morrigan, BUT lets ignore that and force this dialogue onto you anyway."

It's not the fact that Morrigan vanishes afterward that annoys me (bugged epilogue aside) its the way that particular scene is handled specifically for a male warden romancing her, and the way the scene doesn't change unless you follow a specific set of choices. Unlike the Mass Effect series, where BW has stated there will be a trilogy, we instead get a healthy dose of uncertainty, no guarantee that our Warden will be able to pick up where he left off - nothing. (add EA to the equation, a publisher notorious for killing franchises and shutting down developers) If BW lump me with a whole new character in DA2 and its him/her that is expected to conclude/continue the Morrigan plot thread sans my original warden, consider the ball dropped. So ultimately, the very presence of EA is what causes my trepidation - the entire ritual scene gets a big "RUSHED" stamp slapped across it for obvious reasons, I could go on but it'll just turn into an EA rant.

As for the story - I personally prefer DA's style of storytelling to Mass Effect's - plus I hated the decision to make everything a "mission" in ME2. The romances in ME1 & 2 are imo a long way off equalling the depth of Dragon Age's, and part of that due to the trappings of ME's sub-genre hybrid of shooter/rpg. So while they did not detract from the game, I wouldn't say they particularly add to it either. ME2 gameplay is far superior to the first, plus they fixed the lagging of the unreal engine for this outing, which impressed me.

I know I'm not a member of the Modding Community, but I wanted to toss in my Two Cents. Digging around on gaming sights and fourms not too long ago I came across a number of casual interviews with the Dragon Age Dev Team members over the course of Dragon Age's production. From what I've been able to compile, when the DA series was originaly envisioned it was thier intent to make the series more Akin to the Neverwinter Nights series and it's expansions, i.e. each adventure would take place in the same world but have a new primary protaganist for each outing with the chance of encounting characters from previous games.

When the game was being promoted, BW called it the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, but frankly it's obviously more inspired by NWN, at least in implementation. Anyway, as mentioned, the Original plan was to have the game follow NWN's course; however, almost towards the close of production, when the game was ready to almost go Gold, the success of Mass Effect changed the game-plan.

The Dr.'s realized that people *Want* to continue a Heroes journey across an Epic story far more than playing a *New* character each time. In light of this, they had to scamble to change many aspects of the game to leave the Warden's story open as opposed to closing it out. In point of fact, one interview (and I'm sorry, I can't recall the link) indicated that, Originally, the Ultimate Sacrifice Ending had been intended to be *The* ending for the game and Warden. In Essence, closing things out and paving the way for a New Hero (The Orlesian Warden) to come in for the Expansion.

However, as mentioned, the Doctor's rushed to change things and the end result of that choice is what is now plaguing you Awesome Modders so much. Dialogue options that seem out of place or mixed up. Missing conversations, and even missing scenes. The fact is, Bioware learned thier lesson when KOTOR2 was released by Obsidian unfinished and bug ridden. It's not something they wanted to repeat with DA:O. Sadly, last minute Story and Character choices sort of put them in a bad place and sacrifices were implemented poorly. 

Now, on to the Silver Lining. Recent Interviews with the Dev teams, and you can find these interviews here in the Forum or on sites like Kotaku or IGN, hint clearly that for DA2, the lessons have been learned and we're in for a much tighter and far more complete Story experience. The Devs now know that we *Want* to remain as The Grey Warden, not as some new nameless Hero without giving us a choice. It's almost certain that BioWare will allow us to port the Warden into DA:2, or make a New Hero if we so choose.

So, despite the fact that I do not own DA:O for PC, and it's almost certain that DA:2 (which will be using the Unreal Engine just like ME2) will not be able to run on the PC I have now, I will have to contend myself with the Console version and take some small solace that the Sequel will be more of a complete experience than it's predesessor.  

Glenboy24, thank you ever so much for this valueable info.

I've been digging all over the internet trying to find information on Bioware's plans for Dragon Age and our Warden and this is a truly welcome news.

[ejoslin]

I just fixed a MAJOR bug in my party_events file which had the repair to Morrigan in it. I'm putting up the new b2b in a few minutes, and I'll put a replacement file up on DANexus as soon as I can. Sorry about that!

Edit: This only affected the party_events.dlg/dlb I had up via rapidshare with the Morrigan fix on it.  My regular mod is fine!

Modifié par ejoslin, 14 avril 2010 - 11:14 .

[Spartas Husky]

Ok so as long as I keep morrigan at 100% and the 2nd answer I tell anora, that I will look for morrigan.







My question was. Regarding the first thing Anora asks me.



Does choosing any boon has any impact on awakenings epilogue???



There is two answers, but so many say so many are bugged I am still confused, sorry to say .

[Brockololly]

glenboy24 wrote...
However, as mentioned, the Doctor's rushed to change things and the end result of that choice is what is now plaguing you Awesome Modders so much. Dialogue options that seem out of place or mixed up. Missing conversations, and even missing scenes. The fact is, Bioware learned thier lesson when KOTOR2 was released by Obsidian unfinished and bug ridden. It's not something they wanted to repeat with DA:O. Sadly, last minute Story and Character choices sort of put them in a bad place and sacrifices were implemented poorly. 

Now, on to the Silver Lining. Recent Interviews with the Dev teams, and you can find these interviews here in the Forum or on sites like Kotaku or IGN, hint clearly that for DA2, the lessons have been learned and we're in for a much tighter and far more complete Story experience. The Devs now know that we *Want* to remain as The Grey Warden, not as some new nameless Hero without giving us a choice. It's almost certain that BioWare will allow us to port the Warden into DA:2, or make a New Hero if we so choose.

So, despite the fact that I do not own DA:O for PC, and it's almost certain that DA:2 (which will be using the Unreal Engine just like ME2) will not be able to run on the PC I have now, I will have to contend myself with the Console version and take some small solace that the Sequel will be more of a complete experience than it's predesessor.  

Ummm... I won't pull the whole "source?" card on you, but at least with some of the things you mentioned I don't think it was some nefarious scheme by the Dr's to vastly alter DAO at the last minute to conform to a ME style of narrative. I think the fact of the matter is that DAO is a freakin' huge game and cuts inevitably have to be made- surely there is stuff that likely was meant to be in the final game that for bugs or poor coding wasn't properly implemented, but I doubt it was all due to some last minute scramble to alter things due to ME's success.

I've been following DA since the beginning in 2004 and its gone through its fair share of changes, but they;ve always said DA is going to be a franchise of games- not just a trilogy or series of games revolving around the Warden. I hope as much as anyone that we can continue on as the Warden at least through DA2, but read most interviews or comments from Gaider, Kirby or Chee on this forum and with a little reading between the lines, its clear we won't necessarily be staying as the Warden much longer. Either way, they haven't announced it one way or the other so we just have to wait it out- I just wouldn't be so confident in asserting that DA2 will let us import our Warden when Bioware has said nothing on the matter as of yet.

Oh and just to clarify, I do know 100% sure that DA2 is not going to be using the Unreal Engine- that just doesn't make any sense, why would Bioware spend years getting the DAO engine working only to abandon it for the Unreal engine, which wouldn't be suitable for an RPG like DAO? Zeschuk has mentioned they're working on the tech and the engine for DA to be "super hot" but they surely are not using the Unreal Engine for DA.

And as for how DA would run on your PC at minimum specs, frankly it probably wouldn't look too good.  DAO is a fairly processor heavy game but at low settings its not that pretty. Not sure how it would compare to the console version, but if your PC had trouble with the Witcher, I'm not sure how it would fair with DAO. You might be able to run it, but it probably wouldn't look too hot.

[Barbarossa2010]

glenboy24 wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

@Terra Ex:

"Aye, my Morrigan-infatuated Wardens on the 360 version feel your pain. On a plus side though, DA:O's requirements aren't that high, and you'll be able to buy/build a system that could run it at max pretty cheaply in a few years, so there's still the possibility you may get to experience the fixed up version, but sadly not on your platform of choice. The more I look at some of this stuff, the more I have to echo what others have said- I think its very unlikely BW will fix any of these issues."
------------------

My current PC will run it. I weened myself off of PC gaming several years back (when the XBOX 360 came out) in the (now apparently futile) attempt to streamline my gaming experience. XBOX 360 and Live have completely revolutionized multi-player gaming and I just won't be able to give that up; instantaneous multiplayer and match-making are not the same in the PC arena. Games like GOW, HALO, ODST, (XBOX exclusive) and even COD MW and MW2 just have a quicker, better, more responsive MP experience on the console and it's built-in network. Turn on the machine and you're in a match. Can't beat it.

Having said that, I think you guys have convinced me to partially go back to PC. I was looking at a new one anyway; go heavy on the graphics card (for CRYSIS and such) and I may just have to pick up my first PC game in years, replay it and monkey around with it's toolset (hint, hint).

Wanted to ask a quick question. In regards to DA:O, I visited the "Can I Run It," website (which scans PC Rigs to see if they are compatible with most recent PC titles) and was shown that my PC is *just* over Minimum requirements, with everything in the green. However, I'm none the less confused. If my Rig is just *over* Minimum requirements, does that mean the game will run, but will not look very good or be plagued with Framerate issues when there is alot going on in the game at once? I'm hoping to have the chance to pick-up DA:O for the PC, but if it's just going to sit around like my Copy of The Witcher (which looks terrible on my PC) I'll pass.

You know, I'm certainly no expert, but barely meeting minimums sounds like a recipe for framerate loss, lag, etc.  My current PC technically will run it (but only barely), but I plan on upgrading to make darn sure, if I decide to go in that direction.  Frankly, I love ME (probably due to gunplay) on console, but DA is another story...maddening.

BTW, thanks for the info.  Honestly, it sounds about right on target as I watch our reaction and BW's counter-action (or lack of) play out.  If it was their intent to jump from character to character and experience to experience, then they had better do a helluva lot better job at giving players closure in their story.  For the record, it appears from my perspective that they intended to do exactly that, but that the outcry has been so overwhelming (not to mention the success of ME must impact it greatly), that they are scrambling to catch-up.  Like I've said before, the ME story methodology is a winner, they ought to start there.  They already have great game, they just need to sort out what players want from that game.

IMHO, I think Dark Fantasy is going to be a losing franchise strategy, if the players do not feel they have been adequately rewarded, and sufficiently heroic, in the end.  Get too dark or kick the player in the balls one too many times and the populist appeal will go bye-bye...again, just my opinion, but I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one who feels that way.  I mean, compare Shepard at the end of ME1 and my Warden in DA:O.  Hell, Shepard saves the galaxy, my Warden Barbarossa was instantaneously turned into a mumbling chump and then got kicked in the balls by a socially retarded, ice cold, swamp witch. 

Um, guess which game I will definitely be playing the second installment of?  But then again, I have been accused of being over-critical.

Sorry for the rant.  I can't help myself at this point.

Seriously, thanks again for the summary of what you've found out digging around the net.  Sounds good and it certainly rings true.

[Barbarossa2010]

Brockololly wrote...

glenboy24 wrote...
However, as mentioned, the Doctor's rushed to change things and the end result of that choice is what is now plaguing you Awesome Modders so much. Dialogue options that seem out of place or mixed up. Missing conversations, and even missing scenes. The fact is, Bioware learned thier lesson when KOTOR2 was released by Obsidian unfinished and bug ridden. It's not something they wanted to repeat with DA:O. Sadly, last minute Story and Character choices sort of put them in a bad place and sacrifices were implemented poorly. 

Now, on to the Silver Lining. Recent Interviews with the Dev teams, and you can find these interviews here in the Forum or on sites like Kotaku or IGN, hint clearly that for DA2, the lessons have been learned and we're in for a much tighter and far more complete Story experience. The Devs now know that we *Want* to remain as The Grey Warden, not as some new nameless Hero without giving us a choice. It's almost certain that BioWare will allow us to port the Warden into DA:2, or make a New Hero if we so choose.

So, despite the fact that I do not own DA:O for PC, and it's almost certain that DA:2 (which will be using the Unreal Engine just like ME2) will not be able to run on the PC I have now, I will have to contend myself with the Console version and take some small solace that the Sequel will be more of a complete experience than it's predesessor.  

Ummm... I won't pull the whole "source?" card on you, but at least with some of the things you mentioned I don't think it was some nefarious scheme by the Dr's to vastly alter DAO at the last minute to conform to a ME style of narrative. I think the fact of the matter is that DAO is a freakin' huge game and cuts inevitably have to be made- surely there is stuff that likely was meant to be in the final game that for bugs or poor coding wasn't properly implemented, but I doubt it was all due to some last minute scramble to alter things due to ME's success.

I've been following DA since the beginning in 2004 and its gone through its fair share of changes, but they;ve always said DA is going to be a franchise of games- not just a trilogy or series of games revolving around the Warden. I hope as much as anyone that we can continue on as the Warden at least through DA2, but read most interviews or comments from Gaider, Kirby or Chee on this forum and with a little reading between the lines, its clear we won't necessarily be staying as the Warden much longer. Either way, they haven't announced it one way or the other so we just have to wait it out- I just wouldn't be so confident in asserting that DA2 will let us import our Warden when Bioware has said nothing on the matter as of yet.

Oh and just to clarify, I do know 100% sure that DA2 is not going to be using the Unreal Engine- that just doesn't make any sense, why would Bioware spend years getting the DAO engine working only to abandon it for the Unreal engine, which wouldn't be suitable for an RPG like DAO? Zeschuk has mentioned they're working on the tech and the engine for DA to be "super hot" but they surely are not using the Unreal Engine for DA.

And as for how DA would run on your PC at minimum specs, frankly it probably wouldn't look too good.  DAO is a fairly processor heavy game but at low settings its not that pretty. Not sure how it would compare to the console version, but if your PC had trouble with the Witcher, I'm not sure how it would fair with DAO. You might be able to run it, but it probably wouldn't look too hot.

Well, Brocklolly, if what you say turns out to be true, I don't see demand for the game (how do I say this nicely?) spiking abruptly upward.

It appears that I will become a ME fan if Gaider and crew are actually telling the truth in what they write here on the boards, and are not just attempting to manage expectations.  Of course, to me, they write as amibiguously here (when they actually did write here) as they do in the story.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 13 avril 2010 - 12:52 .

[Brockololly]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Well, Brocklolly, if what you say turns out to be true, I don't see demand for the game (how do I say this nicely?) spiking abruptly upward.

It appears that I will become a ME fan if Gaider and crew are actually telling the truth in what they write here on the boards, and are not just attempting to manage expectations.  Of course, to me, they write as amibiguously here (when they actually did write here) as they do in the story.

This is why I just wish Bioware would announce whatever the 2/1/2011 title is going to be- all of our speculation at this point is really much ado about nothing and in the end likely breeds puffed up expectations when Bioware has been rather mum on where they are taking DA storywise. The writers like Gaider and crew have to speak in ambiguous terms despite knowing how the future installments are headed, so I can't really fault them there.

But like ME, I just wish we knew whether or not we were going to get closure with the Warden. Bioware announced from the get-go that ME was Shepard's story and would be a trilogy. The possibility of the whole Ultimate Sacrifice ending throws a wrench in things, but I wish Bioware would just say yes or no whether we can expect to play as the Warden with some sort of meaningful continuity in the future or if future DA sequels will just have new heroes and the ex-packs will plug up anything leftover from the main games.

Ultimately though, I really love Origins despite its flaws and while I also really love the ME games, I personally would rather have the "kick in the balls" Morrigan romance than the kind of bland ME1 romances. The ME2 ones are a bit better but I hate how in ME the romances only culminate in sex and then thats it. I think thats why I enjoyed Morrigan's romance because the sex was really just the beginning and made it way more complicated but more enjoyable to me. Sure the romance has its bugs and what not, but as it is I enjoyed it and at this stage can only hope that Bioware chooses to let us Morrigan fans continue the romance in future DA games.