16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Jarlof Seoul]

MoSa09 wrote...

wickedwizzard01 wrote...

Maybe he meant with that  
there is no closure on the romance part but only on the DR or something like that just guessing here
since he said there would never be a personal closure:huh:

As far as i understood, he said:

1. of all  the romances in Dragon Age Morrigan's is the only one you never get any personal closure on. Not even a little bit.

2. I understand wanting more from Alistair, Zevran and Leliana but you do at least get something from them

3. whereas from Morrigan you get nothing

4. So for those men who romanced Morrigan, you might want to cut them some slack.

Do sound like he's making the case for this dlc as the Morrimancers deserve to get some personal closure as well as they never get one til now. Also of course implying the new dlc will provide this personal closure

Well put.

[SirOccam]

adneate wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

It would be interesting to see a venn diagram of "Morrigan Fans" and "People Who Think DA2 is Going to be Awesome."

Well I don't understand how anyone can think DA2 is going to be awesome based on the nothing they've told us about the game as it exists as a video game. Maybe a flashy CG trailer a bunch of memes  and a few vague answers from the Devs are enough for some people but I don't think there is enough information to form a firm opinion in either direction. You can either be concerned with the direction of the game or interested in the game, anything else seems a tad silly.

Oh, but they have told us plenty. Customizable spells, a decade-long storyline that partially overlaps DAO, cool new look for the Qunari, really awesome-looking protagonist, lots of improvements over DAO such as more responsive combat, the return of Flemeth, the chance to see a country besides Ferelden, etc. Obviously not everyone will agree on how cool these or other things are, but there's more than enough there for me to be well past "interested." Hell, the simple fact that it's the same writing team has me more than interested. And conversely, I guess if someone hated all these things, they could just as easily go just as far in the other direction. What I was curious about, however, was why so many of those people seem to be here.

As for Morrigan fans somehow being more against DA2 than other people, Is that so surprising Morrigan romancers got promised and kicked around the most in Origins. They're the most invested in The Warden as the vehicle for their experience with the world and the consequences of their choices. Obviously anything that removes The Warden and that personalized vehicle for dealing with the consequences isn't going to be met with cheers, since it largely robs the player of the expected resolution to the larger plot that the Morrigan romance plays in to. It's based on rational concerns not just some blind frothing hatred of new things and new characters.

What did we get promised, really, though? And kicked around how? We knew it wasn't going to be smooth sailing with Morrigan--she explicitly told us as much--and I'm guessing that's part of the reason we love her so much.

And anyway, we're now getting our resolution that we waited so long for. I have butterflies as I'm sure most of the rest of you do, wondering if they're going to screw it up or not, but still, this is glorious news, right? I just don't see what it has to do with DA2.

If people made some assumptions about the Warden and Morrigan being in DA2, then that's one thing, but I don't see why DA2 can't be a good great game in spite of that. I don't see how they've "removed" anything or "robbed" anyone. You mentioned the "expected resolution." Maybe that's the problem. Maybe those expectations were not necessarily realistic or justified in the first place.

I never accused anyone of having "blind frothing hatred of new things," but at the same time, I'm not sure how rational it is. It seems like DA2 is being compared to some idealized version of what people thought/wished DA2 was going to be like, and if it's different at all, it's not going to measure up.

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

Well this game/series was advertised as "back to old RPG roots", and now it is getting revamped you can pick your own adjective to describe it(dragon effect, consolitis, etc). Pretty much everything they said about what DA:O and this saga/series was going to be gets ripped apart with each new announcement about DA:2.



They have been horrible at presenting their new "awesome ideas". They blatantly lied to us about the camera. "Nothing is changed blah blah" then they come back and say well "We have tweaked it etc". I have been one of the more optimistic people about DA2, but holy crap they have done a ****** poor job of selling how awesome their game is to me at least. The maybe damage control toolset response was a I can't believe I'm about to use this phrase seriously, but a slap in the face.



I understand writers and devs have the right to change their minds or tweak things, but holy crap this is a complete 180 in the design, and approach that they said to us to sale DA:O, and what a good portion of the fans love about DA:O.



If others and yourself like this "shot of adrenaline" to each and their own, but myself and other people on this forum aren't as optimistic. I don't see how we can be optimistic about it with how poorly they have presented information to us. Magazine leaks that contradict each other, vague and misleading dev comments and many other problems. Not to mention the radical shift in game design that brings up our first questions.

[SirOccam]

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...

Well this game/series was advertised as "back to old RPG roots", and now it is getting revamped you can pick your own adjective to describe it(dragon effect, consolitis, etc). Pretty much everything they said about what DA:O and this saga/series was going to be gets ripped apart with each new announcement about DA:2.

They have been horrible at presenting their new "awesome ideas". They blatantly lied to us about the camera. "Nothing is changed blah blah" then they come back and say well "We have tweaked it etc". I have been one of the more optimistic people about DA2, but holy crap they have done a ****** poor job of selling how awesome their game is to me at least. The maybe damage control toolset response was a I can't believe I'm about to use this phrase seriously, but a slap in the face.

I understand writers and devs have the right to change their minds or tweak things, but holy crap this is a complete 180 in the design, and approach that they said to us to sale DA:O, and what a good portion of the fans love about DA:O.

If others and yourself like this "shot of adrenaline" to each and their own, but myself and other people on this forum aren't as optimistic. I don't see how we can be optimistic about it with how poorly they have presented information to us. Magazine leaks that contradict each other, vague and misleading dev comments and many other problems. Not to mention the radical shift in game design that brings up our first questions.

Okay, but what does that have to do with Morrigan? I'm not saying your views aren't valid or anything, and I get that there are a lot of people less than thrilled with the DA2 news. But this particular point here was about the intersection of that set of people and the set of people known as "Morrigan fans."

Maybe the two have nothing to do with each other, and it's just a fluke of circumstance that there just happens to be a lot of DA2 venting on this thread.

[Dave of Canada]

It's probably been mentioned by now but considering how the DLC is set a year after Origins, could we possibly get a glimpse of the god baby?

Edit: and should the option come up, would you kill it / Morrigan if the intentions were evil, even if she is your love?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 26 août 2010 - 07:47 .

[Master Shiori]

Dave of Canada wrote...

It's probably been mentioned by now but considering how the DLC is set a year after Origins, could we possibly get a glimpse of the god baby?

Edit: and should the option come up, would you kill it / Morrigan if the intentions were evil, even if she is your love?

I honestly doubt you'll see the OGB in Witch Hunt, since the baby model doesn't exist in DA:O and they're unlikely to make it just for a DLC.

And no, I would never kill it. At the worst case scenario I'd take it away from Morrigan.

[Dave of Canada]

Master Shiori wrote...

I honestly doubt you'll see the OGB in Witch Hunt, since the baby model doesn't exist in DA:O and they're unlikely to make it just for a DLC.

And no, I would never kill it. At the worst case scenario I'd take it away from Morrigan.

They could just use a normal man / woman model and say that the baby grows faster than an average human / half-dwarf.

It's a stupid excuse and one I'd rather not see but just throwing it out there.

[Morroian]

Aphetto_LC wrote...

The more I think about the whole thing. It is a blatant reboot.

2 years of DLC scrapped because of DA:2.

2 years? More like 1 year given when DAO was released.

[Dave of Canada]

Morroian wrote...

Aphetto_LC wrote...

The more I think about the whole thing. It is a blatant reboot.

2 years of DLC scrapped because of DA:2.

2 years? More like 1 year given when DAO was released.

^ Pretty much this, with all the delays and how they started before the game launched then you've essentially have two years.

[ximena]

My gift to you guys. xD

[bl00dsh0t]

 Well I think the rage about DA2 in this thread is mostly stemming from the fact that a lot of us have been discussing possible ways that the story of the warden and morrigan would be continued. Cutting the warden out of that equation permanently is not something that is sitting well with anyone who feels that the wardens story is not over. This includes just about everyone that did not die to the archdemon slaying, or at the very least those are the ones we see most frequently complaining about DA2. 

How much of this DA2 flame comes from warden withdrawal syndrome and how much from the actual information we have varies from person to person i presume. IMO there are a lot of improvements to combat that I'm looking forward to experience, and the way that the story unfolds over 10 years is interesting indeed. But in no way in hell is the information released even close to enough for anyone to be hyper optimistic about it. Ill make up my mind the moment we see some gameplay, even if we have the information that is available well sorted in your thread Sir Occam. 

Anyhow, lets see what they do with this final dlc, then we decide wether the exhalted march on edmonton is happening 

Modifié par bl00dsh0t, 26 août 2010 - 10:48 .

[bl00dsh0t]

ximena wrote...

My gift to you guys. xD

<- Drooling uncontrollaby

[Brockololly]

I've said it a bunch already Ximena, but I'll say it again: HAWT! Hot Morrigan legs?check. Awesome red shirt with matching lipstick? check. Amazing yellow eyes? Check. Smecksy glasses and pose? Check.

*Swoons*

Modifié par Brockololly, 26 août 2010 - 10:58 .

[IndigoWolfe]

Brockololly wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Seriously, what's this romance bug I'm hearing about? I play console, and thus cannot take advantage of any toolset, is there something I need to keep in mind? I want my Witchmance...

Its the whole reason this thread started, really.

Basically, in Origins if you talk to Morrigan after the Ritual after everyone says their goodbyes at the Gates of Denerim, MOrrigan essentially breaks up with you and her relationship status switches from "love" to "friendly." Now if you want to get the epilogue slide in Origins where it says MOrrigan felt sorrow and regret through the ring, you have to speak with her that one last time. But if you import that saved game into Awakening, it treats your Warden as if they did not romance Morrigan at all, and as such, you do not get the "searching for Morrigan" epilogue slide at the end of Awakening. So the only way to get that slide in Awakening is to not talk with Morrigan one last time in Origins but then you miss out on the sorrow and regret epilogue.

Got it?

I think so. However, what about the conversation you have with her before you talk to Riordan at the gates of Denerim? Morrigan talked about how our "entanglement" had to end. But I didn't take her with me for the final battle (I never can, in good conscience) and I got the "sorrow and regret" epilogue text in Origins and the "tracking down Morrigan" epilogue text for Awakening.

I feel so confused...

[Master Shiori]

SirOccam wrote...

As for Morrigan fans somehow being more against DA2 than other people, Is that so surprising Morrigan romancers got promised and kicked around the most in Origins. They're the most invested in The Warden as the vehicle for their experience with the world and the consequences of their choices. Obviously anything that removes The Warden and that personalized vehicle for dealing with the consequences isn't going to be met with cheers, since it largely robs the player of the expected resolution to the larger plot that the Morrigan romance plays in to. It's based on rational concerns not just some blind frothing hatred of new things and new characters

What did we get promised, really, though? And kicked around how? We knew it wasn't going to be smooth sailing with Morrigan--she explicitly told us as much--and I'm guessing that's part of the reason we love her so much.

And anyway, we're now getting our resolution that we waited so long for. I have butterflies as I'm sure most of the rest of you do, wondering if they're going to screw it up or not, but still, this is glorious news, right? I just don't see what it has to do with DA2.

If people made some assumptions about the Warden and Morrigan being in DA2, then that's one thing, but I don't see why DA2 can't be a good great game in spite of that. I don't see how they've "removed" anything or "robbed" anyone. You mentioned the "expected resolution." Maybe that's the problem. Maybe those expectations were not necessarily realistic or justified in the first place.

I never accused anyone of having "blind frothing hatred of new things," but at the same time, I'm not sure how rational it is. It seems like DA2 is being compared to some idealized version of what people thought/wished DA2 was going to be like, and if it's different at all, it's not going to measure up.

I obviously can't speak for every Morrigan fan here but I'll go ahead anyway and try to explain some of our grief concerning Morrigan, the Warden and Origins. Just keep in mind that these issues are going to be resolved in Witch hunt so they're no longer relevant, but knowing them might help you understand why people were so against replacing the Warden with Hawke for DA2.

First major concern was the Dark Ritual itself, both in the way it was presented and how the Morrigan acted. For those of us who romanced Morri, the DR was supposed to be the high point of the romance, albeit a tragic one. Instead we got a generic version that was supposed to fit every Warden and Morrigan completely disregarded all the character development we've cultivated since meeting her and acted in "generic" way like when you first encounter her in the Wilds. Moreso, we didn't even have the option of asking a simple "why?".
All our choices during that event came down to "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Now, I won't claim that every romance needs to have a somewhat happy ending (even if it would be nice to have that option), but when some people (Alistair fans) can make a hard choice and get what they want while others can avoid any sacrfices at all (Leliana and Zevran fans) then you feel like you've been singled out for a tragic ending without having a say in the matter.

Second point was the whole "I will find you Morrigan" thing. We get to say this not just to Alistair at his coronation, but to Morrigan herself during the final battle. Not only is this decision recognized in Origins, but Awakening has the Warden go after Morri regardless of what the player wants to do. All this pointed towards a possible reunion in the future. Now, most of us asumed that this will either take place in another expansion or in DA2.
Therefore, when we heard the news that Bioware is bringing in a new protagonist in the sequal it naturaly caused an outrage among Morrigan fans, since it looked like our Warden is being thrown away without a chance to get some much needed closure.


Personally, I have no problem with moving on to Hawke and his story in Dragon Age 2 after the announcement of Withc Hunt, since my one major loose end will get tied up in that DLC. Once Witch Hunt settles things between my Warden(s) and Morrigan I'll happily close off that chapter and move on to new things.

[KnightofPhoenix]

ximena wrote...

My gift to you guys. xD

My wildest fantasies made manifest

[Master Shiori]

ximena wrote...

My gift to you guys. xD

I... I think I'n in love.

Awesome work Ximena. Your Morrigan art never ceases to amaze me.

[MoSa09]

Dave of Canada wrote...

It's probably been mentioned by now but considering how the DLC is set a year after Origins, could we possibly get a glimpse of the god baby?

Edit: and should the option come up, would you kill it / Morrigan if the intentions were evil, even if she is your love?

If my Warden is anything like me (and as i control him, he is a lot like me ), he could never do that. Seriously, i cannot. Whatever she is or wants, i simply can't.

ximena wrote...

My gift to you guys. xD

Amazing artwork Ximena. From the black heels to her glasses, eyes  and the red lipstick. Just awesome!!!!

But i like "The perfect drug" even more :innocent:

Modifié par MoSa09, 26 août 2010 - 05:09 .

[adneate]

SirOccam wrote...
Oh, but they have told us plenty. Customizable spells

Which as a game system we have no idea how it's going to work, and whether it will be an improvement on the DAO spell system or an ME2 style gutting of the system to better fit consoles.

SirOccam wrote...
A decade-long storyline that partially overlaps DAO

Assuming is works it's a very Peter Molyneux idea which traditionally have worked out like crap and ruined the player's experince because it was trying to very innovative at the expense of playability.

SirOccam wrote...
A cool new look for the Qunari

A visual retcon, which only furthers the idea that this is not a true sequel but a total reboot of the franchise.

SirOccam wrote...
A really awesome-looking protagonist

So far Hawke is all flash and no substance, in addition I much prefer to make my own characters so how cool BioWare's default preset is doesn't really matter to me at all.

SirOccam wrote...
Lots of improvements over DAO such as more responsive combat

At the expense of the isometric view and so far people who've actually played the game make more comparisons to the LOTR hack and slash game for the Xbox than any thing else, so more responsive at the expense of depth.

SirOccam wrote...
Hell, the simple fact that it's the same writing team has me more than interested.

In general BioWare's writing has been going down hill for years now, I'm no longer confident they can produce a good story particularily after Awakening. They're very good at writing backstories for their various NPC party members but they haven't done actual character development since the days of Baldur's Gate.

SirOccam wrote...
If people made some assumptions about the Warden and Morrigan being in DA2, then that's one thing, but I don't see why DA2 can't be a good great game in spite of that. I don't see how they've "removed" anything or "robbed" anyone. You mentioned the "expected resolution." Maybe that's the problem. Maybe those expectations were not necessarily realistic or justified in the first place.

The problem is they made the Dark Ritual out to be the single most important choice in the game, it was the culmination of the Morrigan romance plot. However the consequences of the DR can only reasonably be handled by The Warden since both The Warden and the player know the same amount of information. A new PC like Hawke however knows less than the player does, it doesn't make sense for him to ask the questions the Player would and this creates a disconnect between The Player and the Player Character. In a game that prided it self on tough choices that would have great consequnces DA2 is simply a way for BioWare to ditch that by moving the setting and starting over with a new PC who is free of the unresolved plot "Baggage" that The Warden has. The problem then becomes if they can't properly finish one game and they treat choice and consequences as minor annoyances they have to dump ASAP then what does that say about the quality of future titles. Will we get the exact same thing in DA2? A bunch of supposedly very important decisions that are not fully resolved and the consequences never fully dealt with because DA3 is coming out and they have to dump Hawke and his baggage.

[Addai]

SirOccam wrote...

I don't assume that...I was just remarking on what I perceive to be an inordinate amount of DA2 hate (or at least pessimism), and within a thread dedicated to Morrigan fandom. I, for one, am nestled quite comfortably in that overlap. I know there are many in there with me, but it just seems curious to find so much Morrigan fanaticism and so much DA2 pessimism both here.

I think it's more a feature of those who are regular posters in this forum and hence invested in Origins.  Still playing and discussing the game nearly a year after it came out, and basically being shunted aside.  Things are more divided on the other fan threads than this one, perhaps, but also I know of some old-timers who have basically moved on.

I'm pretty much just waiting for Fallout New Vegas to come out myself.

Modifié par Addai67, 26 août 2010 - 06:15 .

[Dave of Canada]

bl00dsh0t wrote...

 Well I think the rage about DA2 in this thread is mostly stemming from the fact that a lot of us have been discussing possible ways that the story of the warden and morrigan would be continued. Cutting the warden out of that equation permanently is not something that is sitting well with anyone who feels that the wardens story is not over. This includes just about everyone that did not die to the archdemon slaying, or at the very least those are the ones we see most frequently complaining about DA2. 

There's a rumor stemming from something that was said in a magazine that the Warden will make a cameo in the sequel, maybe it's entirely possible that your Warden travels with Morrigan and if you import that save then you're shown with Morrigan in DA2 or whatever else they have planned with her? It would completely explain the "disappeared" ending.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 26 août 2010 - 06:23 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Morrigan fanaticism?...What is that exactly? Because we treat her like the Goddess that she is?

[MoSa09]

Dave of Canada wrote...

There's a rumor stemming from something that was said in a magazine that the Warden will make a cameo in the sequel, maybe it's entirely possible that your Warden travels with Morrigan and if you import that save then you're shown with Morrigan in DA2 or whatever else they have planned with her? It would completely explain the "disappeared" ending.

I can't hide that this would be more than nice. OF course, this would depend on the possible endings of Witch Hunt. If that dlc does not allow you to reunite with her, thats DA 2 cameo like you described is just not gonna happen.

And, as we know epic Hawke flees Lothering at around the same time the Warden and his party is around, that Warden cameo could just happen then. When you arrive at Lothering, you have Alistair, Morrigan and Dog following you. Almost everyone had the exact same party at that time. Show the people that, and you'll have your cameo with no sense or meaning at all.

[Master Shiori]

Wouldn't mind to see how Morrigan looks with DA2's engine.

[SirOccam]

adneate wrote...

SirOccam wrote...
Oh, but they have told us plenty. Customizable spells

Which as a game system we have no idea how it's going to work, and whether it will be an improvement on the DAO spell system or an ME2 style gutting of the system to better fit consoles.

SirOccam wrote...
A decade-long storyline that partially overlaps DAO

Assuming is works it's a very Peter Molyneux idea which traditionally have worked out like crap and ruined the player's experince because it was trying to very innovative at the expense of playability.

SirOccam wrote...
A cool new look for the Qunari

A visual retcon, which only furthers the idea that this is not a true sequel but a total reboot of the franchise.

SirOccam wrote...
A really awesome-looking protagonist

So far Hawke is all flash and no substance, in addition I much prefer to make my own characters so how cool BioWare's default preset is doesn't really matter to me at all.

SirOccam wrote...
Lots of improvements over DAO such as more responsive combat

At the expense of the isometric view and so far people who've actually played the game make more comparisons to the LOTR hack and slash game for the Xbox than any thing else, so more responsive at the expense of depth.

SirOccam wrote...
Hell, the simple fact that it's the same writing team has me more than interested.

In general BioWare's writing has been going down hill for years now, I'm no longer confident they can produce a good story particularily after Awakening. They're very good at writing backstories for their various NPC party members but they haven't done actual character development since the days of Baldur's Gate.

Okay, all of that above I see as needless pessimism. It's all assumptions, like how the 10-year thing will work or that more responsive = hack and slash. I'm not trying to talk anyone into liking the game if they don't, but this all just illustrates my point. They've told us plenty. I'm excited by it, you seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum. But either way, we're both beyond simply being interested or having reservations.

SirOccam wrote...
If people made some assumptions about the Warden and Morrigan being in DA2, then that's one thing, but I don't see why DA2 can't be a good great game in spite of that. I don't see how they've "removed" anything or "robbed" anyone. You mentioned the "expected resolution." Maybe that's the problem. Maybe those expectations were not necessarily realistic or justified in the first place.

The problem is they made the Dark Ritual out to be the single most important choice in the game, it was the culmination of the Morrigan romance plot. However the consequences of the DR can only reasonably be handled by The Warden since both The Warden and the player know the same amount of information. A new PC like Hawke however knows less than the player does, it doesn't make sense for him to ask the questions the Player would and this creates a disconnect between The Player and the Player Character. In a game that prided it self on tough choices that would have great consequnces DA2 is simply a way for BioWare to ditch that by moving the setting and starting over with a new PC who is free of the unresolved plot "Baggage" that The Warden has. The problem then becomes if they can't properly finish one game and they treat choice and consequences as minor annoyances they have to dump ASAP then what does that say about the quality of future titles. Will we get the exact same thing in DA2? A bunch of supposedly very important decisions that are not fully resolved and the consequences never fully dealt with because DA3 is coming out and they have to dump Hawke and his baggage.

I don't see how they're ditching anything or not "properly finishing" their game. How do you know this isn't how they intended to resolve the Morrigan storyline all along?

Anyway...whatever. If people want to be dead-set against the game no matter what, that's their business. Obviously people can put a negative spin on any piece of news, as you demonstrated above.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Morrigan fanaticism?...What is that exactly? Because we treat her like the Goddess that she is?

Yes, exactly. Don't get me wrong; I'm a card-carrying member of the Morrigan Fanatic Club. It was not meant disparagingly.