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THE Morrigan Discussion and Research Thread *Infested with Bugs Yet Again!*


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#8351
Brockololly

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Master Shiori wrote...
Sorry, but how exactly do you interpret that as saying "your romance is dead and will stay that way"?

He's obviously referring to DR and the fact that for whatever reason Morrigan couldn't explain her plans to the Warden then. According to him there was a good reason for that, but we don't know it yet.
Nothing in what he wrote mentions the romance in any way.


No, you're right in the context of that quote- I think my negativity got the best of me when writing that=]. I'm just thinking in regards to all of Gaider's other quotes regarding Morrigan's romance that he made back when Origins came out and in most of them he sort of defended the whole "bittersweet" ending as being ok and fitting for Morrigan. I'll try and dig some of those up later.

This is just me putting my negative worst case scenario spin on things, but I mean, "reconciliation with your lost love" doesn't have to mean you reignite the romance. I could see it such that they throw some Plot Hammer reason why Morrigan and the Warden can't be together but this time MOrrigan just more thoroughly explains why thats the case, so in that sense we have closure to the romance and why it can never be.

Thats not how I want it to play out and I *hope* Gaider and Chee don't force a tragic or bittersweet ending on us, but I'm prepared for that possibility.

Master Shiori wrote...
Right now we have no reason to expect the worst, unless you really want to convince yourself that Bioware is making the Witch Hunt for sole purpose of screwing you over, which, to me, comes across as bordering on paranoia (no insult intented)


But do we have any reason to expect the best, either? Its a trailer and you're right you can't divulge much of character motivations and such from it. Given the DR ending and the disappointment of most everything post-Origins though, I'm ready to be disappointed with Witch Hunt, even if I really really hope its awesome. You're only as good as the last game you put out and the recent DLC has been less than stellar. I sincerely hope Witch Hunt changes that trend- and I hope it can.:wizard:

Modifié par Brockololly, 02 septembre 2010 - 11:17 .


#8352
Master Shiori

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Well Brock, right now they can go either way.

Nothing prevents them from giving us a relatively happy ending as long as it doesn't prevent Morrigan from being in DA3.
I'll admit that they aren't obliged to do that, but I fail to see the point of this DLC if all it does is reinforce status quo.

As I said before, a happy ending doesn't need to have the Warden and Morrigan staying together. It could have something like Morrigan coming to terms with her feelings for the Warden, explaining why she needs to do whatever it is she's planning and making a promise to come back to her lover once she's done.
That way you are free to use Morrigan in future stories while at the same time giving all the Wardens who romanced her a sense of satisfaction.

Pretty much a win/win situation for everyone.

Maybe I'm being overly optimisitc here, but I'd like to believe that both Gaider and Chee can come up with a good, satisfying story without beating the dead horse that was Morrigan romance ending from Origins.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 02 septembre 2010 - 11:50 .


#8353
Nerevar-as

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Master Shiori wrote...

Well Brock, right now they can go either way.

Nothing prevents them from giving us a relatively happy ending as long as it doesn't prevent Morrigan from being in DA3.
I'll admit that they aren't obliged to do that, but I fail to see the point of this DLC if all it does is reinforce status quo.

As I said before, a happy ending doesn't need to have the Warden and Morrigan staying together. It could have something like Morrigan coming to terms with her feelings for the Warden, explaining why she needs to do whatever it is she's planning and making a promise to come back to her lover once she's done.
That way you are free to use Morrigan in future stories while at the same time giving all the Wardens who romanced her a sense of satisfaction.

Pretty much a win/win situation for everyone.

Maybe I'm being overly optimisitc here, but I'd like to believe that both Gaider and Chee can come up with a good, satisfying story without beating the dead horse that was Morrigan romance ending from Origins.


Warden has around 30 years left if nothing deactivates the taint or kills him first. If they don´t cop-out and don´t do the comicbook fastforward aging it will be at least 20 before the possible OGC comes into play and Morrigan will probably be along in that possible plot. That doesn´t leave much.

Besides, without the Warden´s possible positive influence, Morrigan is not exactly trustworthy. I really missed the chance to tell her "to hell with what Flemeth taught you, she never intended to let you live" or something in that line.

#8354
TheLion36

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Master Shiori wrote...
Maybe I'm being overly optimisitc here, but I'd like to believe that both Gaider and Chee can come up with a good, satisfying story without beating the dead horse that was Morrigan romance ending from Origins.

I really hope they will! :) Like I said yesterday already there's nothing to stop them from using an old hollywood trick by making Morrigan stay with the warden and still have her show up in DA2/DA3 without any explanation of what happened between the two. Looking at how they changed Leliana's story in Leliana's Song I wouldn't be suprised if they would use something like this.

I think we're all scared/nervous about witch hunt and I think we all fear the worst. Who knows however Bioware might pleasantly suprise us, who knows we might even get several endings to pick from. :)
All I can say is that I truly hope this DLC won't dissapoint, its something we've waited for a long time and it would be really cool if it turns out to be good! :) 

In any case I'm super duper excited... if it turns out to be a bad DLC, well at least we'll have new Morrigan dialogues then! ;) hehe

#8355
TheLion36

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Nerevar-as wrote...
Warden has around 30 years left if nothing deactivates the taint or kills him first. If they don´t cop-out and don´t do the comicbook fastforward aging it will be at least 20 before the possible OGC comes into play and Morrigan will probably be along in that possible plot. That doesn´t leave much.

That does however leave an opening to stay with the warden for something like 20 years before moving on to future stories! ;) She might even turn bitter after the wardens death in the future, who knows! :) 

Nerevar-as wrote...
Besides, without the Warden´s possible positive influence, Morrigan is not exactly trustworthy. I really missed the chance to tell her "to hell with what Flemeth taught you, she never intended to let you live" or something in that line.

hmmm not sure if she can't be trusted... She seems to hate lies somehow, everytime you lie to make someone feel better, you get dissaproval from Morrigan...
Some of the things she learned seem really good advice however, if you look at the world, its mostly the people who only think about themselves who seem to get furthest ahead in life and who seem to get everything! :) 
She's not the most friendly or nice person however without the warden, I'll give you that! ;)

What I really missed was a chance to explain to her that love could also infuse someone with strength, instead of just a weakness.

Modifié par TheLion36, 02 septembre 2010 - 12:21 .


#8356
Nerevar-as

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TheLion36 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
Maybe I'm being overly optimisitc here, but I'd like to believe that both Gaider and Chee can come up with a good, satisfying story without beating the dead horse that was Morrigan romance ending from Origins.

I really hope they will! :) Like I said yesterday already there's nothing to stop them from using an old hollywood trick by making Morrigan stay with the warden and still have her show up in DA2/DA3 without any explanation of what happened between the two. Looking at how they changed Leliana's story in Leliana's Song I wouldn't be suprised if they would use something like this.

I think we're all scared/nervous about witch hunt and I think we all fear the worst. Who knows however Bioware might pleasantly suprise us, who knows we might even get several endings to pick from. :)
All I can say is that I truly hope this DLC won't dissapoint, its something we've waited for a long time and it would be really cool if it turns out to be good! :) 

In any case I'm super duper excited... if it turns out to be a bad DLC, well at least we'll have new Morrigan dialogues then! ;) hehe


The Leliana changes to story were because of  recycling scenarios (really would like to know why the ME DLCs don´t do any of this but DA does it constantly) , not because of story. There are a few ways to keep the Warden in supporting role. He could be The Aragorn trope for instance.

But they seem to be all over Hawke now. I´m surprised they didn´t realize that would have a lot of backfire. Changing a popular main character with an open ended storyline (always dissapeared after a few years?) for another (fixed - I don´t usually care, but here the difference and contrast is big). In other media (i.e:TV or comics or some book franchises) that fails more often than not.

#8357
TheLion36

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But weren't there more liberties with Leliana's Song besides just the environment? I seem to remember they strayed at several points... not sure anymore.

I don't really mind them recycling environment, recently played "The Witcher" and they appeared to have mastered that craft as well hehe... As long as the story is good, which unfortunately wasn't the case with many of the DLC's.
But yeah Mass Effect 2 DLC's were definately quite good and they did manage to get new environments done... Makes ya wonder! :) 

Nerevar-as wrote...
But they seem to be all over Hawke now. I´m surprised they didn´t realize that would have a lot of backfire. Changing a popular main character with an open ended storyline (always dissapeared after a few years?) for another (fixed - I don´t usually care, but here the difference and contrast is big). In other media (i.e:TV or comics or some book franchises) that fails more often than not.

I agree, but somehow we haven't been playing with the warden but with the "Dragon Age" all this time... The thing here though is that everyone has been creating several characters to influence the story and get different paths, which all basically come to a halt with DA2. I would have found it a real masterpiece if they would have picked up in DA2 where they left on in DAO, this would also make sense for the title of the first installment (Origins).

I think the main reason they went for Hawke was to make it easier on themselves, they only have very little left to worry about. They'll allow us to import our savegame to shape the world of DA2, but I have the weirdest feeling this will only be minor things like who's king/queen and perhaps you'll run into something you let live here and there.

I would have preferred to see our Warden in Dragon Age 2, even if we wouldn't have been fighting blights. I seem to remember one warden becoming cured of the taint without explanation, so this would have been a nice opening to have the warden lose his taint and get on with stories that didn't involve darkspawn... I thought it was ironic to see darkspawn on the first screenshots of Dragon Age 2 hehe... :)

Modifié par TheLion36, 02 septembre 2010 - 12:37 .


#8358
MKDAWUSS

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TheLion36 wrote...
I would have preferred to see our Warden in Dragon Age 2, even if we wouldn't have been fighting blights. I seem to remember one warden becoming cured of the taint without explanation, so this would have been a nice opening to have the warden lose his taint and get on with stories that didn't involve darkspawn... I thought it was ironic to see darkspawn on the first screenshots of Dragon Age 2 hehe... :)


I agree with that - just because our Warden is a Grey Warden doesn't mean he has to spend his entire time fighting darkspawn and the Blight. To think so is making an awfully one-dimensional character IMO. I would have loved to see the Warden engaged in some political intrigue or something (regardless of being Teyrn or King). Or he could have defended a town from a series of bandit attacks... Not everything he does has to involve darkspawn IMO.

#8359
Aphetto_LC

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MKDAWUSS wrote...
I agree with that - just because our Warden is a Grey Warden doesn't mean he has to spend his entire time fighting darkspawn and the Blight. To think so is making an awfully one-dimensional character IMO. I would have loved to see the Warden engaged in some political intrigue or something (regardless of being Teyrn or King). Or he could have defended a town from a series of bandit attacks... Not everything he does has to involve darkspawn IMO.

Not actiony enough.

#8360
MKDAWUSS

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Aphetto_LC wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...
I agree with that - just because our Warden is a Grey Warden doesn't mean he has to spend his entire time fighting darkspawn and the Blight. To think so is making an awfully one-dimensional character IMO. I would have loved to see the Warden engaged in some political intrigue or something (regardless of being Teyrn or King). Or he could have defended a town from a series of bandit attacks... Not everything he does has to involve darkspawn IMO.

Not actiony enough.


It can sometimes lead to war, which is ALWAYS actiony enough. :)

#8361
MoSa09

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Master Shiori wrote...

Nothing prevents them from giving us a relatively happy ending as long as it doesn't prevent Morrigan from being in DA3.
I'll admit that they aren't obliged to do that, but I fail to see the point of this DLC if all it does is reinforce status quo.


I am still rather uncertain if we really should expect Morrigan to appear in DA 3 in such a prominent role like all of you (not just SHiori, i just picket his post to made my point, so sorry bro ^_^).

I know Laidlaw hinted in a video interview on gamescon that Morrigan's story might span further than DAO and DA 2. I saw that as well. But i still have my doubts it will be as everyone seems to expect for the following reasons.

1. What he said was vague, at best. Also remember, back when he said that, Witch Hunt was still a rumor and not announced. So much of hus jumbling with words could be attributed to the fact that he wanted to please fans, ease concern while at the same time not to accidently confirm or spoil an unanounced project.

2. If Morrigan is bound to return to DA 3, that will be like what? 3 years from now, if not more. But a cameo or reappearance of a former character only makes sense if those people who will play DA 3 have also played DAO. If not, at best, they simply do not understand the deeper meaning behind the cameo. At worse, they might not be able to grasp the whole story, and no producer would want that.

3. DA 3 will most likely have a different audience then Origins or DA 2. New players will emerge, other players might not care anymore. Especially video gaming is an industry with a high pace and constant change of audience. There will be a lot of players the time DA 3 will be sold that are part of the core audience but never played DAO. So the effect of having Morrigan return will be simply lost on them. Especially if her return is plot central and important, those might feel left out and won't consider bying it if they don't know the prequel.

4. One might say those new players might simply play the former games. But first of all, graphics will be outdated by then, and selling a game by telling players "to enjoy it the most, you'll have to play our former games first" would most probably backfire heavily. Besides, DA 2, despite BW claims, is going for a different kind of audience. IF DA 2 is any success, DA 3 will most probably follow suit. Those new players might not even enjoy playing Origins as this game was not made with players like them in mind.

5. Making Morrigan central to DA 3 would essentially limit their options, as well in the upcoming dlc as well as given she is somewhat fixed by the story of Origins. That move seemed somewhat odd to me, as with their recent game, they introdcued Hawke to get rid of all those plot constraints an continuance of Origins would force upon them. I have a hard time imagening after they avoided this for DA 2, they would force this upon themselves for Witch Hunt and DA 3.

6. There are many Morrigan lovers around (just take a look here ;)). But there is also a bunch of haters, who would more than complain if all characters, they bring her back constantly and plot central. Some just can't stand her, and i am certain the complaints would increase if they do so.

7. On a personal note, they said Dragon Age is all about Thedas. I have the impression they want to create a story that covers many different games and connects them, while at the same time playing different characters in different countries. Origins was the start, to set this story up and get it going. It seems Morrigan was instrumental in starting that big story we don't know much of yet. But it think that story she started is way bigger than her. I will expect former characters and NPC, they all shape the world and will re-appear in future game. I assume the Warden, Hawke, and some other companions might have cameos in DA 2 as well. They all made decisions and influenced events that put that big story forward and influence the vents of the new hero of DA 3. I believe Morrigan is part of this chain of events, it was her and Warden who started it. But I don't see her featuring a more prominent role than others. I am sure she will re-apear along the way of the franchise every now and then, as well as all others that put their very own twist to that story that will unfold.But i don't see her having a much bigger presence and impact than all other important characters.

In short and to sum up, yes i believe she will re-appear. What i do not believe and what seems to be common assumption around here that she will be central to DA 3. She is part of the events that link the whole franchise, just like Flemeth, The Warden, and many others we don't know about yet or didn't realized how much they're involved. But i don't think she will be any special among them later on.

She will be in Da 3 i am sure, but my guess is that her role will be more limited than many assume. Of course, this is just my guess, but i have ahard time picturing her as one of the leading characters. She started all this, so sure she cannot be ignored, but the events that unfold here seem to be way bigger than just her.

On a brighter note, that would give the writers much more freedom to creates different endings for Witch Hunt as they wouldn't be so constraint in her story as long as they keep her alive for a shorter cameo.

#8362
Nerevar-as

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TheLion36 wrote...

But weren't there more liberties with Leliana's Song besides just the environment? I seem to remember they strayed at several points... not sure anymore.


Not directly related to moving it to Ferelden? I think not. She was prisioner for a week, if you meant the horrible things done to her.

TheLion36 wrote...

I think the main reason they went for Hawke was to make it easier on themselves, they only have very little left to worry about. They'll allow us to import our savegame to shape the world of DA2, but I have the weirdest feeling this will only be minor things like who's king/queen and perhaps you'll run into something you let live here and there.

I would have preferred to see our Warden in Dragon Age 2, even if we wouldn't have been fighting blights. I seem to remember one warden becoming cured of the taint without explanation, so this would have been a nice opening to have the warden lose his taint and get on with stories that didn't involve darkspawn... I thought it was ironic to see darkspawn on the first screenshots of Dragon Age 2 hehe... :)


I think someone thought if the mainstreemed it the game would be even more sucessful. Can´t tell, I don´t know how players who prefer fixed vs more options overlap. I like both, but don´t like changes withing the same IP. If they got it wrong this forums are going to be "funny" after March. ME1 to ME2 changes weren´t that big compared to what they are hinting at DA2. Again, all we have are hints. They started to talk too soon.

Of course, if I don´t like Witch Hunt I´m out regardless of anything else. Learnt the hard way with Dragonlace not to stay aboard something I don´t like the direction it is going.

#8363
Nerevar-as

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MoSa09. I get your points. Probably devs agree. But I would LOVE them to tell people who complain about all that, that if you watched only Return of the Jedi or Return of the King and don´t understand what´s going on then they should go and see them.



And I´m tired of the graphics debate. Origins were good enough. All those fancy visuals, VOs and so on mean also shorter games and less options. We get good games when we could get masterpieces otherwise.

#8364
KnightofPhoenix

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On the issue of whether Morrigan will be central in DA2 and beyond. I doubt that for the reasons Mosa eloquently listed. And I am not sure I would want that to happen to be honest.

Morrigan is definately interesting, but her showing up in every single DA game would kind of cheapen the character and would probably fail to do her character justice. Morrigan already featured prominently in Origins, and basically everything about her is addressed, except for the DR.
The DR however is beyond Morrigan and is a new issue in and of itself. So if there is something I would like to be a central point in the future of the franchise, it would be the OGB, but that would require some form of canonisation. I would be dissapointed if the OGB turns out to be insignificant. 

That's not saying I would be against Morrigan featuring in other games, but not with the same prominence as Origins. Unless they do bring back the Warden, which I doubt, in which case I wouldn't mind Morrigan being a main character.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 02 septembre 2010 - 01:36 .


#8365
MoSa09

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Nerevar-as wrote...

MoSa09. I get your points. Probably devs agree. But I would LOVE them to tell people who complain about all that, that if you watched only Return of the Jedi or Return of the King and don´t understand what´s going on then they should go and see them.

And I´m tired of the graphics debate. Origins were good enough. All those fancy visuals, VOs and so on mean also shorter games and less options. We get good games when we could get masterpieces otherwise.


I like the graphics as well. But they're a money making company, so telling paying customers what to do when you essnetially wanna sell something to them. Just not gonna work.

We don't even know if the whole of BW fancies all those changes they make to DA 2 or its just forced upon them by some top-level decision to gain more money. In the end, video-gaming is not about telling the stories of your dreams and produce games like you always wanted to. Its business, and the idea is to gain as much profit as possible.

edit: And Knightof Phoenex just listed my personal reasons why i would not wat her re-appearance to happen in a big way for DA 3

Modifié par MoSa09, 02 septembre 2010 - 01:38 .


#8366
TheLion36

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...
That's not saying I would be against Morrigan featuring in other games, but not with the same prominence as Origins. Unless they do bring back the Warden, which I doubt, in which case I wouldn't mind Morrigan being a main character.

She's going to be featured in MySims SkyHeroes, does that count? Posted Image Posted Image

I agree with all of you, I doubt she'll have a major role to play, if she does it'll be something like Flemeth's role in Origins. Important yet a side character. Considering they jump ahead 10 yrs in DA2, who knows how much they'll jump ahead in DA3. She might be old and replace Flemeth as the wise swamp witch by then! ;)
The only reason I would see Morrigan returning as a prominent character would be when they would allow you to play the warden again in DA3, but I really doubt that ever happening.

The Old God baby might pop up somewere along the way through DA2/DA3 but I doubt he/she will be overly significant, since he/she might not even be born in some players worlds.

P.S. On the graphics topic... The graphics of Origins are great imho... There's always room for improvement of course and Mass Effect 2 graphics are better, but the engine demands for ME2 were also a lot different... Dragon Age is mainly about the story and the characters meaning the graphics are of side importance. Whereas Mass Effect 2 definately lives from its graphics and action scenes and the story is of less importance.

Modifié par TheLion36, 02 septembre 2010 - 01:52 .


#8367
Nerevar-as

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MoSa09 wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

MoSa09. I get your points. Probably devs agree. But I would LOVE them to tell people who complain about all that, that if you watched only Return of the Jedi or Return of the King and don´t understand what´s going on then they should go and see them.

And I´m tired of the graphics debate. Origins were good enough. All those fancy visuals, VOs and so on mean also shorter games and less options. We get good games when we could get masterpieces otherwise.


I like the graphics as well. But they're a money making company, so telling paying customers what to do when you essnetially wanna sell something to them. Just not gonna work.

We don't even know if the whole of BW fancies all those changes they make to DA 2 or its just forced upon them by some top-level decision to gain more money. In the end, video-gaming is not about telling the stories of your dreams and produce games like you always wanted to. Its business, and the idea is to gain as much profit as possible.

edit: And Knightof Phoenex just listed my personal reasons why i would not wat her re-appearance to happen in a big way for DA 3


I know, I know:(. Unless players start actually giving more iportance to storytelling than fancy things and marketing that´s not going to happen. In fact, whiile things are getting worse, games are still faring better than let´s say movies. Die Hard or Letahl Weapon are action dramas compared to any Michael Bay. I think most successful videogames are still far from that.

#8368
KnightofPhoenix

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TheLion36 wrote...
I agree with all of you, I doubt she'll have a major role to play, if she does it'll be something like Flemeth's role in Origins. Important yet a side character. Considering they jump ahead 10 yrs in DA2, who knows how much they'll jump ahead in DA3. She might be old and replace Flemeth as the wise swamp witch by then! ;)


That's actually the reason why I don't want her to keep showing up. Because it would, IMO, turn her from a *person* to a *plot tool* exactly like Flemeth is in a way. Don't get me wrong, I like Flemeth as a character, but it seems to me, especially since she appears in DA2, that she is mostly just there for plot reasons (somewhat like Duncan).

That isn't bad, because we don't know much about Flemeth, so she has a certain mystique that makes her interesting. But we know a lot about Morrigan and her personality and she wouldn't work as a Flemeth kind of character. Because even when playing PCs other than The Warden, I would be expecting to interact with Morrigan as a person and not as a distant guide kind of figure.

I guess what I am trying to say is that our relationship with Flemeth is *impersonal*, while our interaction with Morrigan was deeply *personal* and I can't imagine her being back with an impersonal kind of character. 

That's just my opinion.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 02 septembre 2010 - 02:00 .


#8369
Nerevar-as

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

TheLion36 wrote...
I agree with all of you, I doubt she'll have a major role to play, if she does it'll be something like Flemeth's role in Origins. Important yet a side character. Considering they jump ahead 10 yrs in DA2, who knows how much they'll jump ahead in DA3. She might be old and replace Flemeth as the wise swamp witch by then! ;)


That's actually the reason why I don't want her to keep showing up. Because it would, IMO, turn her from a *person* to a *plot tool* exactly like Flemeth is in a way. Don't get me wrong, I like Flemeth as a character, but it seems to me, especially since she appears in DA2, that she is mostly just there for plot reasons (somewhat like Duncan).

That isn't bad, because we don't know much about Flemeth, so she has a certain mystique that makes her interesting. But we know a lot about Morrigan and her personality and she wouldn't work as a Flemeth kind of character. Because even when playing PCs other than The Warden, I would be expecting to interact with Morrigan as a person and not as a distant guide kind of figure.

I guess what I am trying to say is that our relationship with Flemeth is *impersonal*, while our interaction with Morrigan was deeply *personal* and I can't imagine her being back with an impersonal kind of character. 

That's just my opinion.


I think is impossible to avoid metagaming in that situation. You are going to react to the character you knew, not the one the new PC meets. It could be avoided giving you a "kick" with something she does, but forcing actions could go into character derailment, which would be more harmful.

#8370
Master Shiori

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Laidlaw was very clear that Morrigan will be important in DA3. In fact you could say she might be a central character to the whole DA series, since even the events in DA2 are ment to set the groundwork for her return.



As for her plans and motivation, we know very little about that. We know how she feels about Chantry, human society, power, survival and love, but nothing beyond that. We don't know why she carried out the DR after the Warden killed Flemeth, what she plans to do with the OGB or what her long term goals are.

Maybe we'll get the answer to some of thoe questions in Witch Hunt, but certainly not all of them.



And no, Morrigan isnt tied to the Warden in such a way that she couldn't appear in a game without him. The relationship between Morrigan and the Warden is entirely up to the player to determine and varies between players.



Having freed her from Flemeth in DA:O, she is free to pursue her own goals and develope as her own person. Warden may influence her but he isn't the determining factor behind who she is. Who Morrigan turns out to be in the end will be up to her to decide. She's the one in charge of her own destiny.

#8371
MoSa09

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Master Shiori wrote...

Laidlaw was very clear that Morrigan will be important in DA3. In fact you could say she might be a central character to the whole DA series, since even the events in DA2 are ment to set the groundwork for her return.


I can't remember Mr. Retcon himself saying this.

Anyway, than this is the final breaking point to me. Unless that is, they bring the Warden back.

To me (and this is just personal, so please don't tell me that is not part of the lore and so forth), she is tied to my Warden. I can't imagine another character gettin to know her again while my Warden, the one who introduced me to her, is gone. Sorry, but thats how it is. A DA 3 where she is plot central and i'll deal with her with a completele new one... Just one.

She is tied to a set of feelings that developed along with my Warden, and i can't brush them aside just pretending playing Jon Doe dealing with that strange woman in front of me. Its either Warden or a plain No.

To me, she is a Warden story. Period. I know that plotwise and lore-wise she is not, but then MY DA journey ends here. Simple as that.

Modifié par MoSa09, 02 septembre 2010 - 03:05 .


#8372
KnightofPhoenix

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To me, she is tied to the Warden in the sense that our relationship with her that is on a personal level (whether it was love or hate) is the lense with which we saw and understood her personality. I am not sayign that Morrigan cannot be an independent character from the Warden, I think we can all agree that she is by nature an independent person.

What I mean is, like Nevare said, is that it will be hard for us to look at Morrigan using a different lense. I don't know if I am making any sense, but the basic idea is, I'll keep looking at Morrigan from the Warden's eyes, even when the Warden is not here, because only the Warden was in touch with her on a personal level.

#8373
adneate

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Well it's a standard kind of disconnect between player and player character that can happen in sequels like DA2 and whatever they might be in the future. The player knows a character from before they have questions they want to ask them and expect to speak to them in a certain way. The player character however does not have any history with this character and would never ask those questions or treat that character that way. Instead of feeling like part of the story the player is frustrated and disconnected from it, they can't get to what they want and they blame the player character for the problem. Obviously for a story driven game having the player disconnected from their agency in the world is not the best thing for keeping them interested or involved.

#8374
blademaster7

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MoSa09 wrote...

Anyway, than this is the final breaking point to me. Unless that is, they bring the Warden back.

To me (and this is just personal, so please don't tell me that is not part of the lore and so forth), she is tied to my Warden. I can't imagine another character gettin to know her again while my Warden, the one who introduced me to her, is gone. Sorry, but thats how it is. A DA 3 where she is plot central and i'll deal with her with a completele new one... Just one.

She is tied to a set of feelings that developed along with my Warden, and i can't brush them aside just pretending playing Jon Doe dealing with that strange woman in front of me. Its either Warden or a plain No.

To me, she is a Warden story. Period. I know that plotwise and lore-wise she is not, but then MY DA journey ends here. Simple as that.

I've been saying this for the past 4 months or something. I'd just like to add that this applies to the entire DAO cast and not just Morrigan. They're all tied together.

When you replace the companions, you get stories like Awakening and Golems of Amgarrak. You no longer care about your party because you still miss the previous one. It felt really pointless trying to work my way all the way to 100% approval with my DAA companions. And when you replace the protagonist you get something like Darkspawn Chronicles. You watch as your beloved companions roll over and die at your feet and you just don't care because you are not linked with them anymore.

Point is, having another protagonist meet with your previous party members is immersion breaking. Could Morrigan be a part of DA2 and DA3? Sure she can. It just won't be the same. And by the time you see her again, chances are, you moved on to Hawke and your new companions. Looking back at Origins at this stage could only cause you to shrug.

#8375
Giggles_Manically

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adneate wrote...

Well it's a standard kind of disconnect between player and player character that can happen in sequels like DA2 and whatever they might be in the future. The player knows a character from before they have questions they want to ask them and expect to speak to them in a certain way. The player character however does not have any history with this character and would never ask those questions or treat that character that way. Instead of feeling like part of the story the player is frustrated and disconnected from it, they can't get to what they want and they blame the player character for the problem. Obviously for a story driven game having the player disconnected from their agency in the world is not the best thing for keeping them interested or involved.

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