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THE Morrigan Discussion and Research Thread *Infested with Bugs Yet Again!*


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#8401
Master Shiori

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MoSa09 wrote...

I know i might be riding a dead horse, but if we analyze this piece by piece, that doesn't necessarily have to say she will be a pivotal part of DA 3.


He said her story isn't over and that they'll pik up on it. Gaider confrmed that Morrigan's story doesn't end with Witch Hunt.
If you never bring a character back but rather just deal with the consequences of his/her acions then his/her story is over and all you're doing is seeing the aftermath.
He may not have said DA3, but I find it illogical that they'd wait so long to wrap up the whole Morrigan/Flemeth story, especially knowing what we do of DA2 so far.

MoSa09 wrote...

Se, he could just be talking about Witch Hunt and the impact of Morrigans decision on the further development of the plot for the whole franchise



See my point above. Gaider said Witch Hunt isn't the end of Morrigan's story.


MoSa09 wrote...
Does not mean she has to appear in person, or play a large role in it. Just assuming she would give birth to the OGB, that alone would make a great deal of influence on the whole world by one person without any need that Morri as the mother would need to re-appear ever again.


Sorry, but it does. How exactly do you figure that someone's story isn't over if you never see them again? By that logic Witch Hunt isn't the end of the Warden's story because you can see the consequences of his actions in DA2, even though the Warden isn't there and you're playing as Hawke. Same reasoning.

For Morrigan's story to continue she needs to play an active role in a game.


MoSa09 wrote...
[i]I talked about this idea more than once. It could be about the things she set in motion by the doings she dd in Origins and Witch Hunt. Even if she is not plot central or even part of the game, the consequences of her actions might spawn more than one game and future games might deal and influence the things in way or another without her being present. And he might also talk about Witch Hunt, as i am sure DA 2 will shed a different lights on the events of Witch Hunt.


We know that at some point we'll see the consequences of DR (at least those of us who did it). Sure, Morrigan's actions and the way her story plays out can provide plot threads for future games. However, OGB isn't going to be an important part of it since that's a completely optional storyline based on your decision in Origins, and not everyone choose to do it.

Based on her role in Origins and on the fact that she's closely tied to Fleemth and whatever it is she's doing, I believe Morrigan will play an important role. All that's left is to see what answer the Witch HUnt will provide us with and how they affect Morrigan's future.

#8402
Master Shiori

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Brockololly wrote...

I thought I read somewhere that even in Golems of Amgarrak they reference vaguely whether you killed the Architect or not- something like if you let him go, someone says how quiet the Deep Roads have been while if you kill him they say its as bad as usual.


Hmm, I played Golems twice now but never ran across any referrence about the Architect.

Then again I never saw any mention of who the king of Orzammar is in Awakening either.

#8403
MKDAWUSS

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Just a question, would having Morrigan be the PC for DA3 be a bad idea? I know that would fix appearance and gender and whatnot, but you do know the character, and the mainstream gamer can just be easily wowed by being a sorceress with all these amazing powers...

#8404
MKDAWUSS

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Master Shiori wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

I thought I read somewhere that even in Golems of Amgarrak they reference vaguely whether you killed the Architect or not- something like if you let him go, someone says how quiet the Deep Roads have been while if you kill him they say its as bad as usual.


Hmm, I played Golems twice now but never ran across any referrence about the Architect.

Then again I never saw any mention of who the king of Orzammar is in Awakening either.


Same here. GOA had references to the king of Orzammar and the Anvil of the Void, but that was about it. No Awakening references (Darkspawn in the Deeps, Kal'Hirol, etc.)

#8405
Master Shiori

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MKDAWUSS wrote...

Just a question, would having Morrigan be the PC for DA3 be a bad idea? I know that would fix appearance and gender and whatnot, but you do know the character, and the mainstream gamer can just be easily wowed by being a sorceress with all these amazing powers...


Interesting idea, but I can't see it being implemented.

For one you remove character creation entirely, and two it would either limit roleplaying or make Morrigan go completely ooc.

If I had to make a guess I'd say we're looking at her being either an important npc or a companion.

#8406
MoSa09

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Master Shiori wrote...

He said her story isn't over and that they'll pik up on it. Gaider confrmed that Morrigan's story doesn't end with Witch Hunt.
If you never bring a character back but rather just deal with the consequences of his/her acions then his/her story is over and all you're doing is seeing the aftermath.
He may not have said DA3, but I find it illogical that they'd wait so long to wrap up the whole Morrigan/Flemeth story, especially knowing what we do of DA2 so far.


Maybe its just my vain hope they won't reduce her to a mre plot tool and turn this game and romance i loved so much into something... i don't even wanna see or know about.

But i guess you're right, and i am just sticking to my hope they will do better than that (apparently, they won't).

And i have some difficulties understand how providing closure in Witch Hung and saving her without spoiling to be a major part in DA 3 seems maybe not exclusive, but hard to combine.

I take one of the two will be treated less serious and satisfying to further the one. One the one being reduced will most likely not be Witch Hunt.

#8407
Aphetto_LC

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Fact is, Bioware has painted themselves into a corner regarding Morrigan's character and the only solution they could come up with is "reboot" her character. Heck, they are "rebooting" everything else.

Games that allow the player to make multiple different choices should not have sequels, unless the production takes every choice into account and have the sequel change accordingly.  Bioware clearly does not want to put forth the effort and weave Origins' story into DA2, so they cop out with weak tie-ins that might as well have not been in the game in the first place.

Modifié par Aphetto_LC, 02 septembre 2010 - 06:43 .


#8408
MKDAWUSS

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Aphetto_LC wrote...

Fact is, Bioware has painted themselves into a corner regarding Morrigan's character and the only solution they could come up with is "reboot" her character. Heck, they are "rebooting" everything else.


They've painted themselves into many corners and are getting out of it in the worst way.

#8409
Aphetto_LC

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MKDAWUSS wrote...

Aphetto_LC wrote...

Fact is, Bioware has painted themselves into a corner regarding Morrigan's character and the only solution they could come up with is "reboot" her character. Heck, they are "rebooting" everything else.


They've painted themselves into many corners and are getting out of it in the worst way.

Exactly, and the sad thing is, they do not care.

#8410
Corker

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Master Shiori wrote...

Hmm, I played Golems twice now but never ran across any referrence about the Architect.

Then again I never saw any mention of who the king of Orzammar is in Awakening either.


If you ask the dwarven mason what a dwarf is doing in the Keep, he'll say that King [X] takes care of his allies, or something to that effect.

/driveby

#8411
Master Shiori

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Corker wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Hmm, I played Golems twice now but never ran across any referrence about the Architect.

Then again I never saw any mention of who the king of Orzammar is in Awakening either.


If you ask the dwarven mason what a dwarf is doing in the Keep, he'll say that King [X] takes care of his allies, or something to that effect.

/driveby


Thanks for that Corker.

I'll be sure to pick that line when I next play Awakening.

#8412
Master Shiori

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MoSa09 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

He said her story isn't over and that they'll pik up on it. Gaider confrmed that Morrigan's story doesn't end with Witch Hunt.
If you never bring a character back but rather just deal with the consequences of his/her acions then his/her story is over and all you're doing is seeing the aftermath.
He may not have said DA3, but I find it illogical that they'd wait so long to wrap up the whole Morrigan/Flemeth story, especially knowing what we do of DA2 so far.


Maybe its just my vain hope they won't reduce her to a mre plot tool and turn this game and romance i loved so much into something... i don't even wanna see or know about.

But i guess you're right, and i am just sticking to my hope they will do better than that (apparently, they won't).

And i have some difficulties understand how providing closure in Witch Hung and saving her without spoiling to be a major part in DA 3 seems maybe not exclusive, but hard to combine.

I take one of the two will be treated less serious and satisfying to further the one. One the one being reduced will most likely not be Witch Hunt.


I share your concern when it comes to Morrigan's future.

I have nothing against her being an important character in Dragon Age, but if that's the case then they need to do her story justice.

I have a feeling that they've planned for her to be important from the start and thus already know how to handle her and her story.

Right now I hope that Witch Hunt will provide a satisfying resolution to her romance with the Warden.

#8413
MoSa09

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Master Shiori wrote...

I share your concern when it comes to Morrigan's future.

I have nothing against her being an important character in Dragon Age, but if that's the case then they need to do her story justice.

I have a feeling that they've planned for her to be important from the start and thus already know how to handle her and her story.

Right now I hope that Witch Hunt will provide a satisfying resolution to her romance with the Warden.


The point of concern might be that they made her romancable. If it would be a non-romancable character like Sten, i guess no one would care and all would be just excited. But choosing a romancable-character as the main plot hook for the whole franchise?

1. the romance players, like us, will complain about feeling disconnected and disappointend about her story progressing while they can no be longer be part of it, taking the agency away from the player. Cause thats what happens, as the player might be driving the story, but with a different, new character, the romance, an integral part of the agency of the Warden, must come to an end.

2. Fans of other romances will most likely complain that Morrigan wil be back while Alistair, Leliana or Zevran will not.

It would have been better if they had choosen a non-romance character. Or, for now, to change plan to some degree to give the agency back to the players.

#8414
TheLion36

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Master Shiori wrote...
I have a feeling that they've planned for her to be important from the start and thus already know how to handle her and her story.

I'm not so sure about that... I've always had the feeling from the way Origins was setup that the intend was to continue the wardens story in the sequel. I believe something happened somewere that made them change their minds, possibly since it was too hard to carry over and account for all the choices.
Just a feeling though, I have no proof for this! :)

MoSa09 wrote...
The point of concern might be that they made her romancable. If it would be a non-romancable character like Sten, i guess no one would care and all would be just excited. But choosing a romancable-character as the main plot hook for the whole franchise?

It would probably have been better yes, but would you really have wanted to miss all those cozy and warm moments with Morrigan? Like when she gives you the ring, or the cute moment when she's struggling with her feeling for you... or when she asks you to join her in her tent the very first time... :) 
Even if they screw this up, we'll always have our imagination! ;) Whatever Witch Hunt turns out to chose for closure, I'll always form my own story in my head if I don't like their choices! ;) 

#8415
MoSa09

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TheLion36 wrote...

It would probably have been better yes, but would you really have wanted to miss all those cozy and warm moments with Morrigan? Like when she gives you the ring, or the cute moment when she's struggling with her feeling for you... or when she asks you to join her in her tent the very first time... :) 
Even if they screw this up, we'll always have our imagination! ;) Whatever Witch Hunt turns out to chose for closure, I'll always form my own story in my head if I don't like their choices! ;) 


No, of course not. But the story progression might kill all this, sadly. At least to me, i know many people can and will think differently about that.

#8416
TheLion36

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MoSa09 wrote...
No, of course not. But the story progression might kill all this, sadly. At least to me, i know many people can and will think differently about that.

It might, but like I said we'll always have paris.... ehm our imagination! ;) Of course it would still suck if they just reduce her to a tool to sell more games (she is a popular character afterall) and would stray from her true self...

Whatever they cook up for her, I'll refuse to believe she's an evil person... She's so vulnerable in Origins and she clearly struggles with many emotions... If she just tuns out to be evil or something like that now, I'll just pretend she's someone else (a clone / another Flemeth daughter) and I'll make up my own story in my head what happened to Morrigan and the warden. It would however be much easier, nicer and better if the story Bioware comes up with fits my idea of closure, saving me from having to imagine something new! ;)

EDIT: But I understand what you mean, it would be like they smudged/insulted her in some grotesk manner. :(

Modifié par TheLion36, 02 septembre 2010 - 08:03 .


#8417
MoSa09

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TheLion36 wrote...
It might, but like I said we'll always have paris.... ehm our imagination! ;) Of course it would still suck if they just reduce her to a tool to sell more games (she is a popular character afterall) and would stray from her true self...

Whatever they cook up for her, I'll refuse to believe she's an evil person... She's so vulnerable in Origins and she clearly struggles with many emotions... If she just tuns out to be evil or something like that now, I'll just pretend she's someone else (a clone / another Flemeth daughter) and I'll make up my own story in my head what happened to Morrigan and the warden. It would however be much easier, nicer and better if the story Bioware comes up with fits my idea of closure, saving me from having to imagine something new! ;)

EDIT: But I understand what you mean, it would be like they smudged/insulted her in some grotesk manner. :(


Well, we still have Ximena's comic if all else fails. Unless Witch Hunt proves me different, i consider it to be way better than anything BW could come up with and my DA - Morrigan canon. :)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Its unbelievable, a BW dev, Fernando Melo to be specific, indeed responded on the whole Morrigan romance flag issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fernando Melo wrote...

Speaking with the designers for WH,
amongst many other choices, it will recognize and respond to both of
the romance active and still in love flags. I believe the issue with
Awakening was that it only responded to one of those, so you could get
into a bit of a catch-22 where you either missed a part of the Origins
epilogue, or the Awakening one depending on how you ended things in
Origins.


See it here http://social.biowar...ex/4578907&lf=8

Modifié par MoSa09, 02 septembre 2010 - 08:26 .


#8418
Master Shiori

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MoSa09 wrote...

Its unbelievable, a BW dev, Fernando Melo to be specific, indeed responded on the whole Morrigan romance flag issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fernando Melo wrote...

Speaking with the designers for WH,
amongst many other choices, it will recognize and respond to both of
the romance active and still in love flags. I believe the issue with
Awakening was that it only responded to one of those, so you could get
into a bit of a catch-22 where you either missed a part of the Origins
epilogue, or the Awakening one depending on how you ended things in
Origins.


See it here http://social.biowar...ex/4578907&lf=8


That is indeed good news. :)

Nice to hear that the game will recognize both flags this time around.

#8419
MoSa09

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Master Shiori wrote...
That is indeed good news. :)

Nice to hear that the game will recognize both flags this time around.


Besides its nice to have confirmation that the question of whether she was romanced or not will play at role in Witch Hunt, though to what degree is still unknown.

I would like to believe, to say at least something positive this day, that after 5 months they suddenly respond to this issue is because the romance options plays a more central role in Witch Hunt when it comes down to the ending. All speculation of course B)

#8420
Quinnzel

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MoSa09 wrote...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Its unbelievable, a BW dev, Fernando Melo to be specific, indeed responded on the whole Morrigan romance flag issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fernando Melo wrote...

Speaking with the designers for WH,
amongst many other choices, it will recognize and respond to both of
the romance active and still in love flags. I believe the issue with
Awakening was that it only responded to one of those, so you could get
into a bit of a catch-22 where you either missed a part of the Origins
epilogue, or the Awakening one depending on how you ended things in
Origins.


See it here http://social.biowar...ex/4578907&lf=8



Posted Image
This am making me have happy face ^_^

I might consider actually going through Awakenings before WH naow.

#8421
Maconbar

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TheLion36 wrote...


I'm not so sure about that... I've always had the feeling from the way Origins was setup that the intend was to continue the wardens story in the sequel. I believe something happened somewere that made them change their minds, possibly since it was too hard to carry over and account for all the choices.
Just a feeling though, I have no proof for this! :)



I think that the US option in DA:O suggests that BW planned to end the warden's involvement and not continue his story into DA:2.

#8422
blademaster7

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It's good to know that it will work fine this time. Now we don't have to worry about missing something. And yes barbarossa, this means you won't be greeted with "what comes my friend" :P

---
So what do are you guys planning on importing? Let's see what we have.

1. Dark Ritual + Romance
2. Dark Ritual(PC) - No Romance
   2a. Loghain did the DR
   2b. Alistair did the DR
3. Alistair sacrifice
4. Loghain sacrifice
5. Romanced but refused the DR (same as #3 or #4 but she may have a baby)
6. New Character(or the Orlesian)?


If the outcomes are different I might try all of them but i'm missing #2 and #5.

Modifié par blademaster7, 02 septembre 2010 - 09:08 .


#8423
Master Shiori

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blademaster7 wrote...

It's good to know that it will work fine this time. Now we don't have to worry about missing something. And, yes, barbarossa, this means you won't be greeted with "what comes my friend" :P

---
So what do are you guys planning on importing? Let's see what we have.

1. Dark Ritual + Romance
2. Dark Ritual(PC) - No Romance
   2a. Loghain did the DR
   2b. Alistair did the DR

3. Alistair sacrifice
4. Loghain sacrifice
5. Romanced but refused the DR (same as #3 or #4 but she may have a baby)
6. New Character(or the Orlesian)?


If the outcomes are different I might try all of them but i'm missing #2 and #5.


All I have is the first two.

I always do the DR so 3, 4 and 5 are out and I hate the US with a passion.

Don't see much point in importing the Orlesian Warden since he doesn't have any history with Morrigan. I mightdo it once just to see what happens.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 02 septembre 2010 - 09:10 .


#8424
MKDAWUSS

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I only keep one save series at a time. It's my canon save. If I do decide another run, I'm deleting my current save and the new canon overrules the current one. I think I have my final canon.



Anyway, I'm bringing in the DR+romance (+ Morrigan restoration mod, if that means anything).

#8425
Quinnzel

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blademaster7 wrote...

---
So what do are you guys planning on importing? Let's see what we have.

1. Dark Ritual + Romance
2. Dark Ritual(PC) - No Romance
   2a. Loghain did the DR
   2b. Alistair did the DR
3. Alistair sacrifice
4. Loghain sacrifice
5. Romanced but refused the DR (same as #3 or #4 but she may have a baby)
6. New Character(or the Orlesian)?


If the outcomes are different I might try all of them but i'm missing #2 and #5.


Hmm those are the only 2 save states I have left (i NEVER let anyone else do the DR and the PC US makes no sense to me) so I might have a run through quickly for another Alistair/Loghain sacrifice with a mage.

Modifié par Quinnzel, 02 septembre 2010 - 09:19 .