16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Aphetto_LC]

Exalted march?  Anyone?  

[Brockololly]

Aphetto_LC wrote...

Exalted march?  Anyone?  

That implies caring does it not? Morrigan romancing Wardens have been kicked in the balls and beaten down to a bloody pulp so much now that Witch Hunt just seems like BioWare pissing on the Warden's grave as Morrigan leaps into Hawke's arms and they zoom off in their convertible giving the Warden the middle finger as they drive off into the sunset.

We'll just have to wait and see what happends for sure come Tuesday. Gamespot has been wrong and stupid before.

Modifié par Brockololly, 05 septembre 2010 - 01:47 .

[TheLion36]

Brockololly wrote...
And hell, at least with the Viconia and Aribeth endings you had a fairly "happy" ending before we got Gaider'd. With Morrigan you don't even have that. If this is simply one step in some epic character arc, then fantastic. But if WH ends as it seems it does like in Origins, the Warde damn well better come back in DA3 whenever Morrigan returns from her Mirror trip.

True, with Aribeth it was just the epilogue text's that screw you over and I never had any trouble ignoring those. Besides in a later expansion my character ended up in hell and freed her, now that's a love ending!  Unfortunately the story was bogged so my character wasn't recognized as my character, but hell I even ignored that, think in the expansions of NWN I just pretended it was a continuation all along!

What I don't understand is, if Morrigan goes through the mirror, why can't the warden just decide to go with her... If they would decide there would be no warden in DA3, then just give Morrigan a dialogue line in the sense of: "I loved somebody once and he died trying to help me"... Instead they give our warden a cliffhanger and we'll probably get a character with some silly name like Eagle (as in the next Hawke) which will follow up on it! 

[Brockololly]

MariSkep wrote...

lol tell how us you really feel, Brockololly.

Oh, that wasn't clear enough?

[Brockololly]

TheLion36 wrote...
What I don't understand is, if Morrigan goes through the mirror, why can't the warden just decide to go with her... If they would decide there would be no warden in DA3, then just give Morrigan a dialogue line in the sense of: "I loved somebody once and he died trying to help me"... Instead they give our warden a cliffhanger and we'll probably get a character with some silly name like Eagle (as in the next Hawke) which will follow up on it! 

Exactly.

They NEED to explain in a meaningful way why the Warden can't come with Morrigan if thats the case. They didn't do it in Origins with the DR and its one reason I think that scene sucks. If they make the same mistake twice, I don't know what to say.

At least with ME2 and the Liara DLC it seems BioWare recognizes the fans were upset with her abrupt character shift and now they're trying to explain it and let them continue that romance. Apparently all BioWare thinks we want is another serving of steel toe boot to the balls regarding Morrigan.

Modifié par Brockololly, 05 septembre 2010 - 01:58 .

[TheLion36]

Brockololly wrote...
They NEED to explain in a meaningful way why the Warden can't come with Morrigan if thats the case. They didn't do it in Origins with the DR and its one reason I think that scene sucks. If they make the same mistake twice, I don't know what to say.

I didn't really mind the first time, it felt like a really cool cliffhanger that would be picked up in an expansion or sequel... Of course now we know how all those turn out and it makes that scene look as if it was written, implemented and someone forgot to fix it for the new designs for DA2 / Awakening...

Is it just me or is Bioware just really bad in making sequels? NWN2 had little to nothing to do with NWN, neither did the expansions... If I remember correctly KOTOR1 and KOTOR2 also had very little follow up (but I remember very little of those games somehow) and now DAO, Awakening and DA2 have very little binding as well. So far only Mass Effect seems to have carried on a story, although I know that people also complain about the lack of continuation in those, I think it was quite well done, especially knowing Shepard returns in ME3...

[Blacklash93]

TheLion36 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
They NEED to explain in a meaningful way why the Warden can't come with Morrigan if thats the case. They didn't do it in Origins with the DR and its one reason I think that scene sucks. If they make the same mistake twice, I don't know what to say.

I didn't really mind the first time, it felt like a really cool cliffhanger that would be picked up in an expansion or sequel... Of course now we know how all those turn out and it makes that scene look as if it was written, implemented and someone forgot to fix it for the new designs for DA2 / Awakening...

Is it just me or is Bioware just really bad in making sequels? NWN2 had little to nothing to do with NWN, neither did the expansions... If I remember correctly KOTOR1 and KOTOR2 also had very little follow up (but I remember very little of those games somehow) and now DAO, Awakening and DA2 have very little binding as well. So far only Mass Effect seems to have carried on a story, although I know that people also complain about the lack of continuation in those, I think it was quite well done, especially knowing Shepard returns in ME3...

Dragon Age is about Thedas, not one particular plotline.

It's just a different way of making a series.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 05 septembre 2010 - 02:14 .

[TheLion36]

Blacklash93 wrote...
Dragon Age is about Thedas, not one particular plotline.

It's just a different way of making a series.

If that is true, they shouldn't make cliffhangers... Otherwise its the same as saying that Star Wars is about the jedi and not Luke Skywalker, imagine darth vader telling Luke he is his father and then some new recruit takes on Darth in the next episode...

Modifié par TheLion36, 05 septembre 2010 - 02:18 .

[KendallX23]

ok..a bit unrelated question...anyone knows if u get the looking for Morrigan ending in AAwakening if in the original ending u had a companion traveling with u ?

[Aphetto_LC]

KendallX23 wrote...

ok..a bit unrelated question...anyone knows if u get the looking for Morrigan ending in AAwakening if in the original ending u had a companion traveling with u ?

I had Zevran travel with me and got the looking for Morrigan ending in Awakenings.

[TheLion36]

KendallX23 wrote...
ok..a bit unrelated question...anyone knows if u get the looking for Morrigan ending in AAwakening if in the original ending u had a companion traveling with u ?

Ah you mean what you picked in the "Coronation" talks right after slaying the archdemon? I don't think it matters what you pick there, since the Post-Epilogue save is made at the moment the Archdemon dies, so those talks are just for fun, but have no meaning.

[KendallX23]

yea..but after i talked to everyoen i made a save of my own...and i think the last save matters.....oh never mind..will see it for myself...man...i have to finish origins another 4 times plus awakening at least 6 times...

[TheLion36]

KendallX23 wrote...

yea..but after i talked to everyoen i made a save of my own...and i think the last save matters.....oh never mind..will see it for myself...man...i have to finish origins another 4 times plus awakening at least 6 times...

I believe someone once stated that they checked in the toolset and none of those conversations set any flags... but I could be wrong.

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

Dang was about to by my BioWare points, but this thread kind of got me worried now. Did the review really look that bad? Can someone give me a link to it please?

Modifié par Jacks Smirking Revenge, 05 septembre 2010 - 03:11 .

[Nerevar-as]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Dragon Age is about Thedas, not one particular plotline.

It's just a different way of making a series.

To use that approach is usually wise leave plots and characters tied. Discworld has several main characters, but when it started it either closed stories more or less completely (although Rincewind´s cliffhangers became a running gag). Or the Culture books, which skip centuries.

A disadvantage changing main characters has now is that narrative has
improved so much that you feel the connection between PC and NPC. Changing main characters in series usually doesn´t work, and it is what they are doing.

At the end the point is there is no closure in plots the main character was too implicated. DR and the DS Awakening are Warden plots. . And now Morrigan seems to be starting her own agenda. She could be friend, lover or sister figure. Seeing this through the eyes of a new character just doesn´t work the same. DA2 seems to be following Flemeth´s agenda, but when the two of them clash another new character is again the story is going to take a hit. It can be good, but not as good as it could have been.

Off topic, about Aribeth, was that written by Gaider? I think it annoyed people that the PC wasn´t the NWN hero back then.

[adneate]

I know I was gone when the gamespot thing came out but damn if that's what they're doing to "end" the biggest loose thread of all . . . I don't even know what to say. Really? That's how it should end like The Sopranos? WTF man?

Can BioWare even tell a good story anymore or is it only good in the remedial world of video game writing where Marcus Fenix and Cole Train are it's greatest competitors? Don't books and movies (movies being the one they're trying so desperately to copy) have endings and if they don't isn't that recognized as a problem?

Modifié par adneate, 05 septembre 2010 - 03:28 .

[hurricaneez1]

Just read the Gamespot preview and, if what they say about the ending is right, I'm done with Dragonage. Total BS if true.

[Nerevar-as]

adneate wrote...

I know I was gone when the gamespot thing came out but damn if that's what they're doing to "end" the biggest loose thread of all . . . I don't even know what to say. Really? That's how it should end like The Sopranos? WTF man?

Can BioWare even tell a good story anymore or is it only good in the remedial world of video game writing where Marcus Fenix and Cole Train are it's greatest competitors? Don't books and movies (movies being the one they're trying so desperately to copy) have endings and if they don't isn't that recognized as a problem?

Movies don´t have to deal with starting at level 1 each game and suddenly the main character getting a voice and taking more disc space.

Funny you mention The Sopranos. It seems every popular series now has to close with a WTF ending. I remember when this only happened in anime.

[Brockololly]

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...

Dang was about to by my BioWare points, but this thread kind of got me worried now. Did the review really look that bad? Can someone give me a link to it please?

http://www.gamespot....1&mode=previews

Seriously though, it really just about spoils the whole thing.

TheLion36 wrote...
Is it just me or is Bioware just really bad in making sequels?

Well, the only true sequels BioWare has made have been Baldur's Gate 2 and then Throne of Bhaal and then ME1 to ME2. Obsidian made NWN2 and KOTOR2, not BioWare. But BG2 and then ToB are probably my ideal versions of how a sequel should be handled- you add content to the game, retain the PC and most of the characters so you can have some actual character development and see them grow. ME2 definitely improved some things but also I felt cut back on too much.

DA2 seems to be taking the more "streamlining" approach rather than the BG2 approach to sequels....

TheLion36 wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...
Dragon Age is about Thedas, not one particular plotline.

It's just a different way of making a series.

If that is true, they shouldn't make cliffhangers... Otherwise its the  same as saying that Star Wars is about the jedi and not Luke Skywalker,  imagine darth vader telling Luke he is his father and then some new  recruit takes on Darth in the next episode...

Took the words out of my mouth. Gaider said yesterday when explaining why they chose not to bring the Warden back that its about Thedas. And he mentioned how the Fallout games are the same, in that most games lack continuity but are all set in the same world. And thats a perfectly valid choice, WHEN YOU DON'T LEAVE THINGS ON A CHARACTER SPECIFIC CLIFFHANGER. If BioWare had wrapped up the Warden and Morrigan's story line in Origins I'd be fine if they moved on to a new story with Hawke in DA2 with maybe a reference or 2 to Morrigan and the Warden.

As it stands now though its in some sort of mushy middle where maybe the Warden will come back, maybe not? Its like you said about Star Wars- you don't end with the cliffhanger ending to The Empire Strikes Back only to say that the next Star Wars movie is going to be about some random Jawa who was one of the few who escaped the destruction of his sandcrawler. Now,  forced to fight for survival in an ever-changing world, Random Jawa must gather  the deadliest of allies, amass fame and fortune, and seal his place in  history all along Random Jawa's rise to Power. Sure you can do that, but it takes all the wind out of the sails regarding the cliffhanger. Its crappy storytelling, IMO.


IF Morrigan ditches us again and is going to go through the mirror to seek out power to combat Flemeth, it perfectly sets things up for her return in DA3 as a totally different version of Morrigan. Instead of the Morrigan we all know and love, they can just pull a Gandalf on us and the Morrigan that steps out of the mirror 10+ years post Origins will just be Morrigan the White or something, acting all Godlike and stuff probably.  Meh- if WH ends that way it gives them a license to reboot Morrigan as most people will have forgotten who the hell she is by the time DA3 comes out, especially if she isn't even in DA2.

Modifié par Brockololly, 05 septembre 2010 - 03:39 .

[Nerevar-as]

No one called Gaider in the Fallout example? The flaw in the comparison with DA is way too obvious.

[Brockololly]

Nerevar-as wrote...
Off topic, about Aribeth, was that written by Gaider? I think it annoyed people that the PC wasn´t the NWN hero back then.

I believe she was written by Gaider- and the whole shifting PC was one reason I view NWN as one of my biggest BioWare disappointments, single player wise.

adneate wrote...
I know I was gone when the gamespot thing came out but damn if that's what they're doing to "end" the biggest  loose thread of all . . . I don't even know what to say. Really? That's  how it should end like The Sopranos? WTF man?

Can BioWare even tell a good story anymore or is it only good in the remedial world of  video game writing where Marcus Fenix and Cole Train are it's greatest  competitors? Don't books and movies (movies being the one they're trying so desperately to copy) have endings and if they don't isn't that  recognized as a problem?

The problem I have is that all the marketing bluster for WH acts like they'll "reveal Morrigan's fate" or "reveal Morrigan's secrets!" when they're just stringing us along for another ask and evade Q&A session like the DR where we're totally gimped and neutered of any choice. Brilliant.

My hope (damned four letter word in this thread) is that this is just a prelude to the Warden and Morrigan returning in DA3 to end a truly epic story arc and that this is the crap the Warden has to endure to get to that point......Yeah, and I'm the Queen of Antiva. Who am I kidding, DA3 will have some brand new voiced PC dealing with some radically different version of Morrigan with the Warden some washed up afterthought crushed by a giant rock.

hurricaneez1 wrote...
Just read the Gamespot preview and,  if what they say about the ending is right, I'm done with Dragonage.  Total BS if true.

It definitely relegates DA2 to a dirt cheap Steam sale guilty pleasure purchase, thats for sure. If they're going to treat characters and plots that way, I don't want to support them- there are certainly no shortage of alternatives early next year gaming wise.

Nerevar-as wrote...

Funny you mention The Sopranos. It seems every popular series now has to close with a WTF ending. I remember when this only happened in anime.

A lot do and especially HBO shows it seems. That said my all time favorite TV show ever, The Wire actually had a brilliant ending episode and ending sequence. But for every good ending like that you have crap ones like the Sopranos or Deadwood where the whole thing gets cancelled before the last season.

Modifié par Brockololly, 05 septembre 2010 - 03:50 .