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THE Morrigan Discussion and Research Thread *Infested with Bugs Yet Again!*


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#851
blademaster7

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Terra_Ex wrote...
 I'll see about getting it in later - do all romance partners get forced to still in love status in their final conversation or is it just Morrigan?

Morrigan and Alistair. I checked and didn't seem to find a similar flag for Leli and Zev.

Alistair will get the STILL_IN_LOVE flag ih he breaks up with you at the landsmeet. His dialogue is (sometimes)a bit different if he has that flag.

Morrigan on the other hand.... if she hits 91+ approval it is almost guaranteed she will get it.

Every break up conversation from now on will give Morrigan the still in love flag.

#852
Shade of Wolf

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Brockololly wrote...

Went ahead and changed the title of the thread per everyone's request.

Shade of Wolf wrote...

 I think I should get this game on PC if I ever wanna see Morrigan again. Opinions? I'd really hate to be in DA2 and she suddenly speaks to me as if we were ''friends'':wub::crying::wub:


If you've got a PC that can handle DAO, I would definitely pick it up for the PC. You'll get the mods, better graphics (provided your PC is good enough) and IMO, a better control scheme.

As for DA2- well, as sloppy as the programming seems to be in Origins I guess we can only hope that we even get the chance to romance Morrigan as the Warden again in DA2. Once we know that bit of info, then I'd be more concerned about most of the Origins and Awakening bugs.

Question for those more technologically savvy than me: Have any of the awesome modders here been able to look around in Awakening to see how possibly sloppy the programming is in that? Or is that not possible yet with the toolset?



Hmmmmm I suppose I could wait for info about romances in DA2, they certainly made a point about the lack of Romance in Awakening.
I could at least get Origins..

#853
Shade of Wolf

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blademaster7 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Went ahead and changed the title of
the thread per everyone's request.

About time.../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png

Brockololly wrote...

Question for those more technologically savvy than me: Have any of the awesome modders here been able to look around in Awakening to see how possibly sloppy the programming is in that? Or is that not possible yet with the toolset?

I wouldn't call my self a programmer but I can tell you that there is no update for Awakening.

Schurge
wrote...





Bump.



If you're gonna bump the thread, you might as well say  something. Or, post a picture... whatever ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png

_______
As for any hope for DA2... she'll probably receive the Oghren treatment. She'll take a bump in the head and won't remember anything.


The Warden has been traveling for years and he finally finds her... He's really exhausted and desperately needs help

PC: *huff puff* You... ah....
Dark-haired sorceress: Well well. What have we here? Are you a scavenger or intruder?
PC: I... what? You're joking .. right?  *heavy breathing*
Dark-haired sorceress: I have no time for this. I do not know how you got here stranger but I shall be leaving you to your misery.
PC: Wait... argh... my legs *passes out*
Dark-haired sorceress:His face is familiar, but I cannot quite remember who he is. No matter. He is a fool. I shall leave him to the wolves....

The end!

Lolz

#854
Shade of Wolf

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Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Better yet:

PC: Morrigan, It's you...I can't believe I found you...and in the name of the Maker, is that our child?

Morrigan: What comes my friend?

The end.

Lolz x2
Uh oh, triple post, better write something constructive....
I posted some of the bugs regarding Morrigan romance on the DA wiki...yay

#855
Terra_Ex

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Shade of Wolf wrote...

Hmmmmm I suppose I could wait for info about romances in DA2, they certainly made a point about the lack of Romance in Awakening.
I could at least get Origins..


Well, an interesting observation I made earlier today while looking through some game files - the script files that control the epilogue save all the dark ritual related choices to a specific plot file, with a scripting comment from a coder which says something along the lines of  "so they can be used/imported later" so I'd say thats a positive sign that this plot thread will continue. The question remains however, what form this continuation will take and whether our warden will be a part of it. Of course this doesn't change the fact that Awakening imports the wrong romance flags... I'm still surprised nobody noticed any of this stuff in Morrigan's files till now.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 16 avril 2010 - 03:31 .


#856
Shade of Wolf

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Terra_Ex wrote...

Shade of Wolf wrote...

Hmmmmm I suppose I could wait for info about romances in DA2, they certainly made a point about the lack of Romance in Awakening.
I could at least get Origins..


Well, an interesting observation I made earlier today while looking through some game files - the script files that control the epilogue save all the dark ritual related choices to a specific plot file, with a scripting comment from a coder which says something along the lines of  "so they can be used/imported later" so I'd say thats a positive sign that this plot thread will continue. The question remains however, what form this continuation will take and whether our warden will be a part of it. Of course this doesn't change the fact that Awakening imports the wrong romance flags... I'm still surprised nobody noticed any of this stuff in Morrigan's files till now.

I wish I knew how to mod, then I'd definitely get DAO on pc, but maybe the next game won't expand onto Awakening, as far as I'm aware I didn't make any world-changing decisions in the game... Posted Image

#857
Master Shiori

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There was an interview with 1 of the game designers a few months back where he said we should keep our Origins saves for DA2.



Besides, what would be the point in continuing the dark ritual storyline without our DA:O Warden? Creating a new character would completely ruin the emotional impact of the story.



My guess is that we'll have an import option similar to ME1 -> ME2. Only our romances and decisions will carry over. Equipment, abilities and level will probably be disregarded to make it easier to fit our characters into DA2.

#858
blademaster7

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Well, at least someone is being optimistic...


Screenie time...

Posted Image
Oh really? She had her first feeling...

Posted Image


Barbarossa inspired me...

Modifié par blademaster7, 16 avril 2010 - 04:30 .


#859
Master Shiori

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blademaster7 wrote...

Well, at least someone is being optimistic.


Optimism is all we have at this point.

That and I really can't see what Bioware would hope to gain by giving us hope in epilogue slides and then changing their mind.

If they really wanted they could have our character remain the commander of Vigil's Keep and say his story is over. Having him/her leave Ferelden for no matter what you choose to do at the end of Origins only makes sense if the story will continue somewhere else.

#860
Terra_Ex

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Master Shiori wrote...

There was an interview with 1 of the game designers a few months back where he said we should keep our Origins saves for DA2.

Besides, what would be the point in continuing the dark ritual storyline without our DA:O Warden? Creating a new character would completely ruin the emotional impact of the story.

My guess is that we'll have an import option similar to ME1 -> ME2. Only our romances and decisions will carry over. Equipment, abilities and level will probably be disregarded to make it easier to fit our characters into DA2.


That would be the perfect scenario in my eyes :) Worked for ME2 & BG2, which are arguably the jewels in BW's crown.

Master Shiori wrote...
Optimism is all we have at this
point.

That and I really can't see what Bioware would hope to
gain by giving us hope in epilogue slides and then changing their mind.

If
they really wanted they could have our character remain the commander
of Vigil's Keep and say his story is over. Having him/her leave Ferelden
for no matter what you choose to do at the end of Origins only makes
sense if the story will continue somewhere else.

Very
true.

#861
Barbarossa2010

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Master Shiori wrote...

Interesting. :)

I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

@ Blademaster and Barbarossa

You both have no idea how depressing that was. I think a part of me just died.



LOL, I feel your pain, my friend.

#862
Barbarossa2010

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blademaster7 wrote...

charsen you are awesome. Keep up the good work... We're here if you need anything... questions, advice, beta testing... just ask. ;)

Master Shiori wrote...

Interesting. :)

I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

@ Blademaster and Barbarossa

You both have no idea how depressing that was. I think a part of me just died.

It could be worse...

Dark-haired sorceress: Hmph. Men. Why are you here? These are my wilds.
PC: Who the hell is she? She's hot!
Companion: I don't know. She must be from Ferelden, judging from her accent and all.
Companion2: Must be the mother of that kid we saw earlier. The one that looks exactly like the king of Ferelden.
Dark-haired sorceress: Good guess. Now leave.
PC: We ain't going anywhere. We are Orlesians. You are the foreigner.

*barbarossa tosses his 360 controller and smashes his TV*
*blademaster unplugs his keyboard and and smacks his PC monitor with it*

ARGHH!!!


You have no idea...well yeah...you do, but I have been sorely tempted.  On the bright side, the $1600 I paid for my 46" Sony Bravia allows reason to tamp down my emotions quickly, allowing just enough time to find a cat to punt.Posted Image

#863
Brockololly

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Terra_Ex wrote...

Well, an interesting observation I made earlier today while looking through some game files - the script files that control the epilogue save all the dark ritual related choices to a specific plot file, with a scripting comment from a coder which says something along the lines of  "so they can be used/imported later" so I'd say thats a positive sign that this plot thread will continue. The question remains however, what form this continuation will take and whether our warden will be a part of it. Of course this doesn't change the fact that Awakening imports the wrong romance flags... I'm still surprised nobody noticed any of this stuff in Morrigan's files till now.



Very interesting- I've just started messing around in the toolset, where did you find that comment in there? And is it pretty well settled that the problem with Awakening's messed up Morrigan epilogue is with Awakening and not Origins? 

I really hope that we can deal with Morrigan's story with the Warden like with a ME1 to ME2 style import as that would be fantastic. I'm a bit skeptical we'll get something like that though- I mean look at how Awakening handled the impact of the Ultimate Sacrifcing Warden: "Oh, story be damned- lets hand wave away any consequences from the first game!"

Just reading most of the developer posts, it seems that they don't want to stay with the Wardens forever and want to move around Thedas in future games, both geographically and chronologically. My conecern would be that in DA2 or something they just fast forward 20 years so we get a older Old God Baby and maybe limit Morrigan to a Flemeth type role or Bioware would just have Morrigan's story "continue" on only with some new Hero who comes across Morrigan or the Old god Baby.... I won't get too upset about that sort of thing yet but if they announce that DA2 takes place 30 years in the future in the Tevinter Imperium or is just totally divorced from the Warden and Origins, yeah then I'll be upset.

#864
Barbarossa2010

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Terra_Ex wrote...


Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Better yet:

PC: Morrigan,
It's you...I can't believe I found you...and in the name of the Maker,
is that our child?

Morrigan: What comes my friend?

The
end.


Don't tempt fate :)


Not that thread regulars would want to break up with her (quite the opposite in fact), but the Morrigan break up lines have now been restored and are all fully functional in-game. Again, there's some nice dialog in here, pity you can't get to it in the vanilla game.


That's it...rub it in...now where's that cat?

Okay, now I AM getting another PC!Posted Image

#865
Terra_Ex

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Brockololly wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...

Well, an interesting observation I made earlier today while looking through some game files - the script files that control the epilogue save all the dark ritual related choices to a specific plot file, with a scripting comment from a coder which says something along the lines of  "so they can be used/imported later" so I'd say thats a positive sign that this plot thread will continue. The question remains however, what form this continuation will take and whether our warden will be a part of it. Of course this doesn't change the fact that Awakening imports the wrong romance flags... I'm still surprised nobody noticed any of this stuff in Morrigan's files till now.



Very interesting- I've just started messing around in the toolset, where did you find that comment in there? And is it pretty well settled that the problem with Awakening's messed up Morrigan epilogue is with Awakening and not Origins? 


From the looks of things and reports of people's experiences, it looks like Awakening is checking the wrong flag when it imports the data for the Morrigan romance, but since we can't view the Awakening files atm I can't say for sure. The comment is in a script file called "cam900ar_endgame" and its the only logical conclusion to draw since this script runs at the very end of the game. Its the same script that greys out all the world map locations and puts the game into "post-game" mode.

Brockololly wrote...
I really hope that we can deal with Morrigan's story with the Warden like with a ME1 to ME2 style import as that would be fantastic. I'm a bit skeptical we'll get something like that though- I mean look at how Awakening handled the impact of the Ultimate Sacrifcing Warden: "Oh, story be damned- lets hand wave away any consequences from the first game!"

Just reading most of the developer posts, it seems that they don't want to stay with the Wardens forever and want to move around Thedas in future games, both geographically and chronologically. My conecern would be that in DA2 or something they just fast forward 20 years so we get a older Old God Baby and maybe limit Morrigan to a Flemeth type role or Bioware would just have Morrigan's story "continue" on only with some new Hero who comes across Morrigan or the Old god Baby.... I won't get too upset about that sort of thing yet but if they announce that DA2 takes place 30 years in the future in the Tevinter Imperium or is just totally divorced from the Warden and Origins, yeah then I'll be upset.

I'm perfectly fine with moving onto a non-warden character in a future game, provided all plot threads he's entangled in are resolved. Some people touted the idea of playing as Morrigan's child, which personally for me would not appeal at all - eclipsed only by  replacing the warden with a new hero - its just too soon, imo.


Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...


Barbarossa2010
wrote...

Better yet:

PC: Morrigan, It's you...I can't believe I found you...and in the name of the Maker, is that our child?

Morrigan: What comes my friend?

The end.


Don't tempt fate :)

Not that thread regulars would want to break up with her (quite the opposite in fact), but the Morrigan break up lines have now been restored and are all fully functional in-game. Again, there's some nice dialog in here, pity you can't get to it in the vanilla game.


That's it...rub it in...now where's that cat?
Okay, now I AM getting another PC!../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png



lol, sorry I couldn't resist. Morinth will make it all better though, she can take all that pain away:unsure: Have you reached any of the romances in ME2 yet?

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 16 avril 2010 - 07:03 .


#866
blademaster7

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The thing is, the ME team has forewarned players to keep their saves so they can import them. They have been pretty straightforward from the ME1 days. They even warned that you can only import the save if your Shepard is alive....



The DA developers on the other hand... said no such thing. They haven't confirmed nor denied anything so far. Maybe they are keeping their options open for now. But letting you know that you can import a 2-year old save a few months before the sequel would be unwise.



I hope they know what they're doing...


#867
Brockololly

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Terra_Ex wrote...
I'm perfectly fine with moving onto a non-warden character in a future game, provided all plot threads he's entangled in are resolved. Some people touted the idea of playing as Morrigan's child, which personally for me would not appeal at all - eclipsed only by  replacing the warden with a new hero - its just too soon, imo.


Yeah, I have no issue with moving on to something or someone new and different in DA but if they do so for DA2 without giving resolution to Morrigan and the Warden, then I'll lose a bit of faith in Bioware. I'm sure that any non-Warden DA games will be great but I hope that they don't get so excited about moving on to some new and exciting area or story that they forget to tie up the loose ends from Origins. I'm just concerned that Bioware will treat the DA universe like Neverwinter Nights and just skip around telling different tales with new Heroes as opposed to Balsur's Gate which stuck with the same main character and mosly the same companions while still moving about the world.

And I'm totally with you on the whole playing as Old God Baby thing- did it in Baldur's Gate and had a blast but I don't need to do it again. And being Morrigan's kid after having romanced her in Origins? That would be weird...

#868
Brockololly

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blademaster7 wrote...

The thing is, the ME team has forewarned players to keep their saves so they can import them. They have been pretty straightforward from the ME1 days. They even warned that you can only import the save if your Shepard is alive....

The DA developers on the other hand... said no such thing. They haven't confirmed nor denied anything so far. Maybe they are keeping their options open for now. But letting you know that you can import a 2-year old save a few months before the sequel would be unwise.

I hope they know what they're doing...


Not to drag this thread into pessimism, but what you said is part of what fuels my skepticism on how any potential import may or may not work for DA2. With ME it seemed like they had their plan from the beginning that the import feature between games would really be ME's claim to fame- and I think most people love seeing a certain continuity in choice and consequence be carried through games.

My concern is with how Bioware treats the sequel; In ME2 it seemed like areas from ME1 that were considered problematic, like the Mako or the inventory were either completely overhauled with the subtlety of a sledgehammer or just eliminated completely. Now you can argue how the changes worked out for better or worse in ME2 ( I miss the Mako but liked the new combat), but as it relates to DA2, I wonder if they might have looked at the amount of work needed for a proper import of story choices into a sequel and just said "screw it" and have opted to make a totally new tale. Probably nothing that extreme, but like you mentioned, if they were going to have a robust import feature like ME one would think they would have announced it so that people would keep their saves for a sequel that might be 2+ years to release.

Of course they could also come up with a different way to import your story choices  and character too. But I guess as optimistic I would like to be, I'm not going to hold my breath on seeing the Warden again, but I would love for Bioware to prove all of my pessimism wrong.

Modifié par Brockololly, 16 avril 2010 - 07:25 .


#869
blademaster7

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Hopefully, you guys are right. Maybe they'll actually pull it of and make the import work and let us play as the Warden in the future...but you know me. My glass is always half-empty... especially after Awakening.

Change of subject....Has anyone checked the banter in the toolset? I have spotted a couple of conversations that I never heard in the game.

Two in particular are about Morrigan. One with Oghren and the other with Leliana.

#870
Terra_Ex

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What are the filenames?

#871
blademaster7

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Check the party_ran_banter



Add another one to the list... Sten/Morrigan



I'm pretty sure that last one is missing from the game. Or maybe I didn't use Sten much in that playthrough

#872
Barbarossa2010

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Brockololly wrote...

I really hope that we can deal with Morrigan's story with the Warden like with a ME1 to ME2 style import as that would be fantastic. I'm a bit skeptical we'll get something like that though- I mean look at how Awakening handled the impact of the Ultimate Sacrifcing Warden: "Oh, story be damned- lets hand wave away any consequences from the first game!"

Just reading most of the developer posts, it seems that they don't want to stay with the Wardens forever and want to move around Thedas in future games, both geographically and chronologically. My conecern would be that in DA2 or something they just fast forward 20 years so we get a older Old God Baby and maybe limit Morrigan to a Flemeth type role or Bioware would just have Morrigan's story "continue" on only with some new Hero who comes across Morrigan or the Old god Baby.... I won't get too upset about that sort of thing yet but if they announce that DA2 takes place 30 years in the future in the Tevinter Imperium or is just totally divorced from the Warden and Origins, yeah then I'll be upset.


That was a real problem for me in Awakenings.  I mean seriously, I didn't expect to see Morrigan or Leliana, but Wynne barely knew my Warden after her "great honor to be your friend" speech and he started over at zero with Oghren, even though "he would be the warrior my Warden taught him to be."  Aside from a couple of remarks, there was no real attempt to integrate.In all honesty, it was OK (aside from the stupid Morrigan epilogue glitch or whatever it was) in that I expected nothing but a bit of fun from Awakenings, with little to be added to the story arc (aside from, perhaps, the Architect). 

Having said that, if what the developers say is true and their story method in the DA franchise is to give players all this great choice and depth (in each game) and then in the end leave them hanging, abruptly end relationships, and cop out and attempt some wrap-up through epilogue cards, then I truly am done with DA and will chart a purely Mass Effect course. 

I just don't see it as a player-base building strategy. It won't be populist for sure (and that's the one thing all game developers shoot for).  People like sequels with characters they know and the interjection of new things into that baseline.  It will only be a downward sloping demand line if the DA team wants to play sandbox.  The Warden is the gravitational center of the story, not Thedas.  BW can "blame" themselves for that.  Thedas, while interesting, can never take the place of the Warden's story and his companions part in that story.  To make great characters, give them life and then flush them each episode won't sell in the long run.

Of course, Bioware will do as they will, and then the consumers will decide.

EDIT: Actually I'm the pessimist Brock.  You actually are hoping it will turn out well.  I've simply given BW no choice for me as a player.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 16 avril 2010 - 08:30 .


#873
Barbarossa2010

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blademaster7 wrote...

Well, at least someone is being optimistic...


Screenie time...

Posted Image
Oh really? She had her first feeling...

Posted Image


Barbarossa inspired me...


OMG LOL.  I actually used that line on her, when my Warden was still mildly irritated with her.

#874
blademaster7

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Oh... man... come on... I posted that pic 4 hours ago. :D

It's from a save after the final battle. I'm glad someone saw the irony.

I should find more and post them.

Modifié par blademaster7, 16 avril 2010 - 08:41 .


#875
Master Shiori

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How Awakening handled the Ultimate Sacrifice should come as a spark of hope for all of us dark ritual fans. They have effectively shown us that as far as they're concerned UC only happened in players own minds.



Let's analyze the 3 possible ending scenarios:



1) Ultimate sacrifice

Pretty much a dead end for our characters. Acknowledging this would only make sense if Bioware never intended for the Warden to remain in future games.



2) Dark Ritual refused, Warden survives

This allows for the Warden to return, but forces the game designers to eliminate either Loghain or Alistair from ever appearing in the future. If you plan to bring either of them back at some point you'll need to waste resources programing 2 chars into the game and paying for 2 voice actors.



3) Dark Ritual accepted

Easiest of the 3. Everyone survives and you now have a nice little plot hook to connect Origins with it's sequal. Also, keep in mind that it's not just Morrigan fans who favour the dark ritual. Alistair fangirls also need the dark ritual in order to get their happy endings. Ignoring it could easily ****** off a huge number of people.



Awakening pretty much cleaned the slate when it comes to Ferelden. Our Wardens are now free to go anywhere. The Darkspawn have also been dealt with so the writters are free to focus on other aspects of Dragon Age setting.



Taking the story to a new land like Orlais also means that only a limited amount of choice from Origins will actually have any effect. After all, do people outside of Ferelden really know how we solved the crisis in the Mage Tower, who became the new king or Orzammar or what happened in Redcliffe? They probably only heard how some Warden slew the Archdemon in Denerim and saved Ferelden, but most probably don't even know your name, let alone how you look like.



On the subject of playing as the God child: Bioware already used that card in Baldur's Gate 1 and 2. I highly doubt they'd turn Dragon Age into a copy of those games.



As for keeping the saves, Bioware made it pretty clear they plan to keep releasing new content for Origins. In order to experience that people would need their old saves or would have to start a new character. That means by the time we get official confirmation (assuming it happens) most of us would still have a few characters left and could save them for DA2.