16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

Swoo wrote...

I think that when Morrigan told you about it not being a good idea going into Mirrorworld, I read into it as less of entering a dangerous place on the other side you may never come out of and more as the Warden going 'all in' on Morrigan's side in the family war brewing. Flemeth was probably content to let the Warden just fall out of the picture after Morri and Flemeth both had their turns advancing plots on the poor guy's head. Going through the Mirror is a declaration of war against her, and put's a bullseye right on the Warden which Morrigan was unsure of it being a good idea.

I like that our idea of there being something past the Fade was validated in this DLC, but I hate the fact it will probably be years before we find out what it is.

Yeah, I'm really curious if we ever figure out what is beyond the mirror. And yeah, its likely Morrigan simply doesn't want the Warden involved in whatever she feels she has to do with th OGB but at that point if the Warden is insistent in coming and being with her she isn't going to turn him down. She just thinks he is crazy for jumping into whatever plan she has brewing without knowing anything.

As far as Morrigan and Flemeth goes, I'm confused as to what Morrigan meant when she referred to change. I'll dig up the dilaogue later, but was she saying that Flemeth is going to change the world or she was going to change the world? 

There is this dialogue that I jotted down:

The ritual was but a means to an end. A herald for what is to come.

She says that after mentioning Flemeth- so is the "ritual" she is refering to the DR? And the "herald" the Old God Baby? 


Soooo, is this change being referred to awakening the remaining Old Gods in an uncorrupted form- which would no doubt bring down the Chantry as is alluded to in DA2? So does Morrigan oppose Flemeth's plans or does Morrigan basically agree with bringing about change to the world  but she wants to be the one in charge of the change, not Flemeth?

Modifié par Brockololly, 09 septembre 2010 - 04:45 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Brockololly wrote...
As far as Morrigan and Flemeth goes, I'm confused as to what Morrigan meant when she referred to change. I'll dig up the dilaogue later, but was she saying that Flemeth is going to change the world or she was going to change the world? 

The way she smiled and said that it would bring freedom, probably implies that she is the one to bring it or at least wants it to happen.

The interesting question is what is Flemeth's role in this. If Flemeth is bringing that change, then Morrigan shouldn't be in opposition to her if she likes it, and yet she calls her a threat.
It could be like you said, that she wants to have it her way and not Flemeth. But I don't know, I feel it's more than that. She does say "what I want...is not important now" or something like that.  

I think that this "change" might go either way. Either what Flemeth wants, or what Morrigan wants. Morrigan seemingly wants that change to bring freedom. Flemeth possibly wants a different thing all together. 

It would be interesting to see Hawke's role in this, but I hope it's not really major. As Morrigan is probably not showing up in DA2.  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 septembre 2010 - 05:08 .

[Master Shiori]

I think both Flemeth and Morrigan want change to happen, but for different reasons.

Morrigan clearly tells you in Origins, and also hints at it in WH, that whatever it is that she's planning with OGB, it's supposed to change the world so that people like herself (apostates, those who are persecuted by the Chantry) can be free to live their lives.

It seems that Flemeth and Hawke will start this process of changing the world by bringing down the Chantry in DA2, but it'll be between Flemeth and Morrigan to decide what the world will be like after that. That's where Morrigan's plan for the OGB comes in.
Laidlaw said that Morrigan is one of the people in DA whose actions will change the world, and I don't think he was just refering to the DR.
We might learn Flemeth's plan in DA2, but it most likely won't be until DA3 that we'll see Morrigan's answer to that and the final showdown with her mother.

Not sure what the Wardens role will be in all this, but David Gaider loves to tease us with the possibility of p'laying as the Warden again at some point.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 09 septembre 2010 - 05:26 .

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...

Morrigan clearly tells you in Origins, and also hints at it in WH, that whatever it is that she's planning with OGB, it's supposed to change the world so that people like herself (apostates, those who are persecuted by the Chantry) can be free to live their lives.

I just have a hard time imagining Morrigan do whatever she is doing out of some altruistic rationale to free other mages- look at her reaction to the Tower mages in Origins. She is all about personal survival so I find it hard to believe she would want to go through the trouble of freeing other mages. Now if doing so results in her own increased power and ability to survive, I'd understand it I guess....

Master Shiori wrote...
It seems that Flemeth and Hawke will start this process of changing the world by bringing down the Chantry in DA2, but it'll be between Flemeth and Morrigan to decide what the world will be like after that. That's where Morrigan's plan for the OGB comes in.

Yeah, I'm guessing Hawke only runs into Flemeth a couple times in the course of the game. The first time we know Flemeth has Hawke return a package to a Dalish clan on  Hawke's way to Kirkwall. Could that package contain the book that Morrigan later steals in Witch Hunt?

I'm guessing Hawke's role and Flemeth's overall plan only become clear towards the end of DA2. So Hawke is just sort of an unknowing participant in Flemeth's machinations.

I'd just love it if the last scene of DA2 ends with the Chantry in ruins, the world in turmoil, then cut to the eluvian and see Morrigan, The Warden and Old God baby stepping out of Mirror World, back to kick Flemeth's ass.

[IndigoWolfe]

Un-lurking to say that I just love lurking and reading this thread. It's darn interesting.

[IndigoWolfe]

I'm no Dragon Age lore master --which you kinda have to be to really contribute-- but I have a feeling Morrigan wants to bring something entirely new to the world. Something that has not been seen before. One could assume it has something to do with the Old Gods. Based on what Morrigan said at the end of Witch Hunt, I'm now wondering if Flemeth is an Old God herself.

The Old Gods had to be something, something beyond mere High Dragons, otherwise I doubt that the Urthemiel''s soul would've been all that special.

[Brockololly]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

I'm no Dragon Age lore master --which you kinda have to be to really contribute-- but I have a feeling Morrigan wants to bring something entirely new to the world. Something that has not been seen before. One could assume it has something to do with the Old Gods. Based on what Morrigan said at the end of Witch Hunt, I'm now wondering if Flemeth is an Old God herself.

The Old Gods had to be something, something beyond mere High Dragons, otherwise I doubt that the Urthemiel''s soul would've been all that special.

Could be- I think its been speculated that FLemeth may be the Elven god Fen'Harel or something. The only thing that stinks is that I asked Gaider during the PAX chat if we'd learn more about the Old Gods in DA2 and he pretty much said no.

And if Morrigan is actually the biological daughter of Flemeth and Flemeth is some super non-abomination thing, what does that make Morrigan? Does Morrigan share some of Flemeth's unnatural abomination blood? Is Morrigan truly human?

[Zombievarning]

While on the subject of the bugs caused by the Post-Game save, I am fairly sure that is the save I imported into Awakening (seeing as I "went to meet the adoring public, and then imported), and then into GoA and Finally WH, and I had no problems with the WH ending at all, everything seemed to be exactly as it was supposed to from the dialogue, both the Wardens friendship with Morrigan, as well as the Ritual.



Only problem I have was the lack of a Post-WH save, but that is from what I gather a universal bug at the moment.

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

I just have a hard time imagining Morrigan do whatever she is doing out of some altruistic rationale to free other mages- look at her reaction to the Tower mages in Origins. She is all about personal survival so I find it hard to believe she would want to go through the trouble of freeing other mages. Now if doing so results in her own increased power and ability to survive, I'd understand it I guess....

I was talking about apostates, not Circle mages.

Morrigan tells you that all magic users and traditions outside of the CIrcle are in danger of being destroyed because of the Chantry. She also tells you that she cannot live a normal life with the Warden because she would always be hated by the common people and hunted by the templars.
It's not just about helping others, it's also about herself since she's one of them.
As long as apostates are endangered so it Morrigan's survival and freedom.

Brockololly wrote...

Yeah, I'm guessing Hawke only runs into Flemeth a couple times in the course of the game. The first time we know Flemeth has Hawke return a package to a Dalish clan on  Hawke's way to Kirkwall. Could that package contain the book that Morrigan later steals in Witch Hunt?

I'm guessing Hawke's role and Flemeth's overall plan only become clear towards the end of DA2. So Hawke is just sort of an unknowing participant in Flemeth's machinations.

I'd just love it if the last scene of DA2 ends with the Chantry in ruins, the world in turmoil, then cut to the eluvian and see Morrigan, The Warden and Old God baby stepping out of Mirror World, back to kick Flemeth's ass.

Could be.

Ariane did say that she encountered the Dalish Warden's clan in the north (possibly Free Marches). So it could be that her keeper Aron got the book from Hawke, who delivered it per Flemeth's instruction.
I'm more concerned about why Flemeth wanted to give that book to the Dalish in the first place? And how did Morrigan know that the book will be there?

Also, I wouldn't count on that last scene, simply because it didn't happen for everyone. Only those who romanced Morrigan got that ending.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 09 septembre 2010 - 06:08 .

[Aphetto_LC]

Question: Has anyone redone the Archdemon fight since installing Witch Hunt? My game seems to be unable to create any kind of post game save and I am wondering if the WH DLC is why one will not be created.

Modifié par Aphetto_LC, 09 septembre 2010 - 06:25 .

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...

I was talking about apostates, not Circle mages.

Morrigan tells you that all magic users and traditions outside of the CIrcle are in danger of being destroyed because of the Chantry. She also tells you that she cannot live a normal life with the Warden because she would always be hated by the common people and hunted by the templars.
It's not just about helping others, it's also about herself since she's one of them.
As long as apostates are endangered so it Morrigan's survival and freedom.

Oh, I know, but even just doing something for apostates seems a bit odd for Morrigan- I'd imagine helping out apostates and hurting the power of the Chantry would be desirable for her, but only if it clearly benefitted her in some way- which, like you said, it would. But on the other hand, it also draws more attention to her and thus puts her survival in jeopardy, you'd think. I guess thats just a chance she is willing to take- the benefits of living in a world without the Templars and Chantry breathing down the necks of mages is preferable to one where you're living without freedom.

Master Shiori wrote...
Ariane did say that she encountered the Dalish Warden's clan in the north (possibly Free Marches). So it could be that her keeper Aron got the book from Hawke, who delivered it per Flemeth's instruction.
I'm more concerned about why Flemeth wanted to give that book to the Dalish in the first place? And how did Morrigan know that the book will be there?

Hmmm... so maybe Flemeth just had an overdue Dalish library book? We know FLemeth has a relationship with the Dalish, so perhaps she was using her seeing into the future abilities and planted the book with the Dalish, knowing Morrigan would later come looking for it? And maybe the whole Mirror thing is some trap? Or maybe Morrigan had seen the book in Flemeth's hut and knew Flemeth shipped it to the Dalish? More unanswered questions...

Master Shiori wrote...
Also, I wouldn't count on that last scene, simply because it didn't happen for everyone. Only those who romanced Morrigan got that ending.

Well, it could just be Morrigan stepping out of the mirror in an alternate case.


In any event, BioWare's marketing failed them with Witch Hunt. If you read most reviews for it like IGN's review they only gave WH a 6.5 mainly citing the complete lack of answers from Morrigan. Its a concern I have too- the writers aren't shy about saying how they want to preserve mysteries in the world of DA and I agree with that. But you treat mysteries like The Urn of Sacred Ashes, where you show the mystery in question first hand and simply provide varying explanations for its other worldly power. You don't treat mysteries like everything surrounding Morrigan with vague non-answers where she acts like a stubborn little kid refusing to answer any questions. Have Morrigan give you some legit answers but then maybe later on provide another POV that perhaps tosses some doubt on Morrigan's answers or gives another explanation. That way you're keeping the mystery up but at least providing possible explanations.

Modifié par Brockololly, 09 septembre 2010 - 06:29 .

[Brockololly]

Aphetto_LC wrote...

Question: Has anyone redone the Archdemon fight since installing Witch Hunt? My game seems to be unable to create any kind of post game save and I am wondering if the WH DLC is why one will not be created.

I redid that last night and saved in the throne room and got a post game save too, without any issue.

[Aphetto_LC]

Brockololly wrote...

Aphetto_LC wrote...

Question: Has anyone redone the Archdemon fight since installing Witch Hunt? My game seems to be unable to create any kind of post game save and I am wondering if the WH DLC is why one will not be created.

I redid that last night and saved in the throne room and got a post game save too, without any issue.

Hmm...

[soundchaser721]

Its going to be really interesting to see how the WH endings plays out in future dragon age titles. I'm assuming that DA2 is more of a stage-setter perhaps with Flemeth setting some big plan in motion thats going to be resolved in DA3 hopefully with the warden, morrigan, and the OGB. I just can't shake this feeling that the warden's just going to disappear in that mirror world never to come back while morrigan and the OGB emerge to combat Flemeth and they never address why the warden isn't there. Heres hoping we don't get Gaider'd a few years down the road when DA3 is released

[GardenSnake]

What gives me hope for the Warden coming back in a future game is the fact that Gaider and co actually discussed that possibility when deciding where to go in DA2, he says so in one of the streams he took questions in. Plus Witch Hunt hints at the possible future for Thedas, as cryptic as Morrigan is. The fact that Bio actually considered the Warden as an option is a little comforting.



To me it was pretty clear that when Morrigan said that change was coming to the world, she meant that the Chantry was going to bite the bullet, aka the stuff that's happening at the end of DA2. If Hawke unknowingly screws things up by helping Flemeth and the Warden has to come back to set things right, that would be awesome. Whatever's going to go down in DA3 and onward is going to be a Morrigan vs Flemeth ordeal, at least that's the way I see things.



What really interests me, is what Flemeth is. Morrigan pretty much shot down every thing we speculated about her, so what is she then?

[Terra_Ex]

Brockololly wrote...


In any event, BioWare's marketing failed them with Witch Hunt. If you read most reviews for it like IGN's review they only gave WH a 6.5 mainly citing the complete lack of answers from Morrigan. Its a concern I have too- the writers aren't shy about saying how they want to preserve mysteries in the world of DA and I agree with that. But you treat mysteries like The Urn of Sacred Ashes, where you show the mystery in question first hand and simply provide varying explanations for its other worldly power. You don't treat mysteries like everything surrounding Morrigan with vague non-answers where she acts like a stubborn little kid refusing to answer any questions. Have Morrigan give you some legit answers but then maybe later on provide another POV that perhaps tosses some doubt on Morrigan's answers or gives another explanation. That way you're keeping the mystery up but at least providing possible explanations.

But who is actually going to be given these answers - Hawke, warden, new hero? To me, WH was about giving the morri-romancing warden some payoff (since we've been melancholic for the past few months) and hopefully affecting something in DA3, I never expected anything major answered in a DLC.

Regarding DA2 onwards, I know Gaider vaguely hinted at the warden making some kind of appearance in the future, or at least entertained the notion ... The only thing that possibly contradicts this is the various (now somewhat erroneous) epilogues for various outcomes and the fact that the warden might be dead. If Hawke is being manipulated by Flemeth as well... Maybe I'm reading too much into it but perhaps it might culminate in something that involves all the concerned parties... Worst case scenario is we get screwed out of what could be excellent plot lines because "some players might not have done xyz."

[Barbarossa2010]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
As far as Morrigan and Flemeth goes, I'm confused as to what Morrigan meant when she referred to change. I'll dig up the dilaogue later, but was she saying that Flemeth is going to change the world or she was going to change the world? 

The way she smiled and said that it would bring freedom, probably implies that she is the one to bring it or at least wants it to happen.

The interesting question is what is Flemeth's role in this. If Flemeth is bringing that change, then Morrigan shouldn't be in opposition to her if she likes it, and yet she calls her a threat.
It could be like you said, that she wants to have it her way and not Flemeth. But I don't know, I feel it's more than that. She does say "what I want...is not important now" or something like that.  

I think that this "change" might go either way. Either what Flemeth wants, or what Morrigan wants. Morrigan seemingly wants that change to bring freedom. Flemeth possibly wants a different thing all together. 

It would be interesting to see Hawke's role in this, but I hope it's not really major. As Morrigan is probably not showing up in DA2.  

Since the Warden wasn't killed in WH and the ending clearly brings the potential of his return in the future if the writers decide, my ideal situation in DA3 or beyond would go something lik this:

Flemeth and Hawke form an alliance and Hawke becomes committed to (or a pawn of) Flemeth's idea of "change."  Morrigan and the Warden are beyond the Fade doing who knows what, but emerge sometime later (assuming the Warden can dodge all plot hammers and boulders).  As Hawke has allied with Flemeth, the Warden commits to Morrigan and bringing about her vision of "change" for the world.  Two different visions for the world. Two adversarial sides. One giant battle.  Hawke and the Warden showdown in the temporal world of armies, axes and mortal combat, and Flemeth and (a significantly more empowered-perhaps by the summoning of the old gods) Morrigan collide in the spiritual/supernatural.

More or less a fantasy of how I would like to see the story unfold.  I know the near impossibilities of pitting two characters you have played in a series against one another, not to mention that many players may not have followed her into the mirror; but the option to aid her might still remain for any player.  It would be interesting to see the Morrigan Haters (MHs) forced to ally with a sinister Flemeth over a righteous Morrigan.  Hawke could default to Morrigan's team for the MHs.  It's still a plausible scenario (if not feasible).

EDIT:  I could probably live with the child of Morrigan and the Warden being the protagonist and expanding the story accordingly, if bringing the Warden back were deemed unfeasible (and he is sent off to the Maker/old gods happily, having fully instructed his "son" in the arts of cunning and war).

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 09 septembre 2010 - 07:38 .

[Brockololly]

Terra_Ex wrote...

But who is actually going to be given these answers - Hawke, warden, new hero? To me, WH was about giving the morri-romancing warden some payoff (since we've been melancholic for the past few months) and hopefully affecting something in DA3, I never expected anything major answered in a DLC.

As far as the Warden goes, if they do turn up again as a PC down the road it would be an interesting scenario where presumably the in game Warden would know more of Morrigan's plans than we, the players, do- unless the story picks up right where Witch Hunt ends. But it should be the Warden that gets answers to any Morrigan related questions I think- by allowing the Warden to go through the mirror with her, its really sort of joining them at the hip story wise. I just think it would be a cop out to ditch the Warden in the future given how Morrigan says they'll face the future together at the end of WH.

But given how BioWare deals with diverging choices, I wouldn't be surprised if its handled like the LI's in Awakening where we just get some weak explanation as to why the Warden isn't with Morrigan whenever she shows back up.

And as for the DLC and answers- I dodn't expect much and am more than happy with the romantic resolution, but for everyone else that didn't romance Morrigan, I'm empathetic as it doesn't give you any answers as to Morrigan's secrets beyond more vague prophesizing that we already had in the DR scene. I'm not bothered by it, but I can see why others may be- especially with how it ends if you don't follow her through with her "gift" she gives you and can never find out what it is.

Terra_Ex wrote...
Regarding DA2 onwards, I know Gaider vaguely hinted at the warden making some kind of appearance in the future, or at least entertained the notion ... The only thing that possibly contradicts this is the various (now somewhat erroneous) epilogues for various outcomes and the fact that the warden might be dead. If Hawke is being manipulated by Flemeth as well... Maybe I'm reading too much into it but perhaps it might culminate in something that involves all the concerned parties... Worst case scenario is we get screwed out of what could be excellent plot lines because "some players might not have done xyz."

The fact that Warden could be dead is worrisome, but you figure they handled it already in Witch Hunt by just throwing in the Orlesian Warden. But yeah, it would be terrible if it goes the ME route of generic scenes for those who had their Warden die or something. If you're going to offer up a big choice like the DR and let the Warden follow Morrigan through the mirror, that should be carried through sufficiently in any sequel where Morrigan may play a role. The very fact that they made Witch Hunt as mostly devoted to the Morrigan romance gives me hope that they won't just abandon the Warden in Mirror World, maybe.

And it sure seems as if there is some sort of overall story tying DA together- namely Flemeth and Morrigan. So it while DA2 may seem at first glance like a whole new story with new PC, it would be neat if come DA3 or whenever, all the interested parties from DAO and DA2 sort of get brought together in the big Morrigan/Flemeth plotline that seems destined to change Thedas.


Edit: And is anyone else sort of disappointed that the Old God Baby is a boy? At the very least that tosses out all those theories that Flemeth wanted to steal the Old God Baby's body- unless Flemeth wants to be a man

Modifié par Brockololly, 09 septembre 2010 - 07:40 .

[ejoslin]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Since the Warden wasn't killed in WH and the ending clearly brings the potential of his return in the future if the writers decide, my ideal situation in DA3 or beyond would go something lik this:

Flemeth and Hawke form an alliance and Hawke becomes committed to (or a pawn of) Flemeth's idea of "change."  Morrigan and the Warden are beyond the Fade doing who knows what, but emerge sometime later (assuming the Warden can dodge all plot hammers and boulders).  As Hawke has allied with Flemeth, the Warden commits to Morrigan and bringing about her vision of "change" for the world.  Two different visions for the world. Two adversarial sides. One giant battle.  Hawke and the Warden showdown in the temporal world of armies, axes and mortal combat, and Flemeth and (a significantly more empowered-perhaps by the summoning of the old gods) Morrigan collide in the spiritual/supernatural.

This...  would destroy the DA:O story for many, many people.  It makes "Male warden romanced Morrigan," canon, and would cause me, and I'm sure many others, to walk away from the franchise.

Not that I wouldn't mind allying with Morrigan in the future, but not to have everything, including my character gender, thrown out to get that.

Eeeeeep, I want to cry thinking about that, actually!

[Barbarossa2010]

ejoslin wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Since the Warden wasn't killed in WH and the ending clearly brings the potential of his return in the future if the writers decide, my ideal situation in DA3 or beyond would go something lik this:

Flemeth and Hawke form an alliance and Hawke becomes committed to (or a pawn of) Flemeth's idea of "change."  Morrigan and the Warden are beyond the Fade doing who knows what, but emerge sometime later (assuming the Warden can dodge all plot hammers and boulders).  As Hawke has allied with Flemeth, the Warden commits to Morrigan and bringing about her vision of "change" for the world.  Two different visions for the world. Two adversarial sides. One giant battle.  Hawke and the Warden showdown in the temporal world of armies, axes and mortal combat, and Flemeth and (a significantly more empowered-perhaps by the summoning of the old gods) Morrigan collide in the spiritual/supernatural.

This...  would destroy the DA:O story for many, many people.  It makes "Male warden romanced Morrigan," canon, and would cause me, and I'm sure many others, to walk away from the franchise.

Not that I wouldn't mind allying with Morrigan in the future, but not to have everything, including my character gender, thrown out to get that.

Eeeeeep, I want to cry thinking about that, actually!

Not to worry.  That's why I threw in the possibility of...let's say...a sister/friend of Morrigan perhaps having the opportunity to ally with her upon her return from beyond in DA3.  I think you could craft the decision with whom to support from nearly all backgrounds and decisions made throughout.

[Maconbar]

ejoslin wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Since the Warden wasn't killed in WH and the ending clearly brings the potential of his return in the future if the writers decide, my ideal situation in DA3 or beyond would go something lik this:

Flemeth and Hawke form an alliance and Hawke becomes committed to (or a pawn of) Flemeth's idea of "change."  Morrigan and the Warden are beyond the Fade doing who knows what, but emerge sometime later (assuming the Warden can dodge all plot hammers and boulders).  As Hawke has allied with Flemeth, the Warden commits to Morrigan and bringing about her vision of "change" for the world.  Two different visions for the world. Two adversarial sides. One giant battle.  Hawke and the Warden showdown in the temporal world of armies, axes and mortal combat, and Flemeth and (a significantly more empowered-perhaps by the summoning of the old gods) Morrigan collide in the spiritual/supernatural.

This...  would destroy the DA:O story for many, many people.  It makes "Male warden romanced Morrigan," canon, and would cause me, and I'm sure many others, to walk away from the franchise.

Not that I wouldn't mind allying with Morrigan in the future, but not to have everything, including my character gender, thrown out to get that.

Eeeeeep, I want to cry thinking about that, actually!

I don't think that this will happen. For the same reason that I think that BW will be able to handle the OGB/no-OGB choice moving forward without having to just ignore that decision.

It was interesting that D. Gaider talked about the dangers of branching dialogue in one of the PAX chats this weekend because of the recent discussion about our branching decisions.

[Barbarossa2010]

ejoslin wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Since the Warden wasn't killed in WH and the ending clearly brings the potential of his return in the future if the writers decide, my ideal situation in DA3 or beyond would go something lik this:

Flemeth and Hawke form an alliance and Hawke becomes committed to (or a pawn of) Flemeth's idea of "change."  Morrigan and the Warden are beyond the Fade doing who knows what, but emerge sometime later (assuming the Warden can dodge all plot hammers and boulders).  As Hawke has allied with Flemeth, the Warden commits to Morrigan and bringing about her vision of "change" for the world.  Two different visions for the world. Two adversarial sides. One giant battle.  Hawke and the Warden showdown in the temporal world of armies, axes and mortal combat, and Flemeth and (a significantly more empowered-perhaps by the summoning of the old gods) Morrigan collide in the spiritual/supernatural.

This...  would destroy the DA:O story for many, many people.  It makes "Male warden romanced Morrigan," canon, and would cause me, and I'm sure many others, to walk away from the franchise.

Not that I wouldn't mind allying with Morrigan in the future, but not to have everything, including my character gender, thrown out to get that.

Eeeeeep, I want to cry thinking about that, actually!

Further thought:  Your concern is more than valid BTW.  It's one of the problems I have with the story telling methodology of DA.  In their attempt to widen the tent and give virtually unlimited choices and please everyone, they are forced to either water down the story to near nothingness or disappoint the hell out of a large portion of the player base if they cannonize plotlines.

Of course the other option is to actually craft a game that can accomodate the choices offered within it.  If they can't do that, then the choices made are really rendered pointless.

I'm with you on this.

[Terra_Ex]

Maconbar wrote...

It was interesting that D. Gaider talked about the dangers of branching dialogue in one of the PAX chats this weekend because of the recent discussion about our branching decisions.

I was thinking the same thing, as I see it if they stick rigidly to this "there is no canon" for every single choice you soon end up with a great deal of weak plot threads with poor resolution - ala Mass Effect 2's email rewards. You end up with lots of faux-choices and have to employ protagonist jumping to avoid having to deal with the messy web you created.

Edit: and it appears I've echoed Barbarossa's thoughts on the issue.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 09 septembre 2010 - 08:09 .

[phaonica]

Brockololly wrote...

As far as Morrigan and Flemeth goes, I'm confused as to what Morrigan meant when she referred to change. I'll dig up the dilaogue later, but was she saying that Flemeth is going to change the world or she was going to change the world? 

Her 'change' dialog bothers me to no end.
-She says that change is coming to the world, and she says that even if you didn't do the DR.
-She says that some people will fight change with every fiber of their being, but that sometimes change is what people need most. So that tells me that this change will be coming against the will of the people, and they will probably fight it. It also tells me that she thinks that the change is for their own good, that she wants this change to occur.
-She says that the child will 'herald' the change. That can't mean it's the catalyst for the change, because she says that the change will come even if the DR didn't occur.
-She says the change could set people free. Freedom can mean lots of things. The Architect wanted to 'free' the darkspawn by Awakening them, and lots of players killed him for it. Does she want to free the circle mages? I didn't think she cared about them at all? Maybe she wants to free the apostates from the Chantry. Does she mean for mages to not be policed at all? Who knows. Freedom can mean survival, but freedom can also mean anarchy (anarchy!). If the OGB doesn't exist to control this anarchy, does she have some kind of backup plan?
-I can't help but notice similarities between what little we know of Morrigan's plan, and how similar it sounds to the Architect's plan in the Calling, in a very basic form. Architect: Change everyone in the world. They won't like it, but it will be for their own good. Whomever is left over will thank us for it in the end.

[CalJones]

I interpreted it as a little lecture from Bioware saying "the Warden's tale is over, deal with it. Now you must play Hawke."