Aller au contenu

Photo

THE Morrigan Discussion and Research Thread *Infested with Bugs Yet Again!*


16183 réponses à ce sujet

#9651
Brockololly

Brockololly
  • Members
  • 9 037 messages

Terra_Ex wrote...
Well he's not discounting the possibility, and the choices in WH are particularly relevant to the warden. She's not gonna be pissed at Hawke if the warden stabs her... But I'm just unsure on the timeline of the epilogues and which take precedence.

Thats why especially after Witch Hunt, it seems to me that Morrigan is really tied to the Warden, whether they're The Hero of Ferelden or the Orlesian even. So to have her show up in the future with no sign of the Warden interacting with some new PC would really take the wind out of the sails for her plot. You do that and you end up with the sort of boring scene in WItch Hunt where you chat with her as the Orlesian- its all business like and not half as interesting if you're the original Warden. But even now the Orlesian has some history with Morrigan.

As for the timelines and epilogues, its hard to say as the epilogues jump all over the place time wise. Even in Witch Hunt  I was a bit confused- in my import from Awakening on the map, you'll see Vigil's Keep. And when you mouse over it, it gives a brief update on it and it says something how its been 2 years since The Mother's attack. Which doesn't make sense- Origins ended and a couple months past to Awakening which took about 6 months to complete the events of. And then Witch Hunt is supposed to take place 1 year after the Archdemon died, or the end of Origins. So that doesn't even add up.

Terra_Ex wrote...
I know I read somewhere in an extendedd blurb for WH that Morrigan's trail went cold in Orlais (though the full version isn't in-game to my knowledge) so that implies that the DA:O & DA:A epilogues were not retconned... whilst potentially screwing up non romancers. Hmmm....

Its from the Witch Hunt main page:

The dreaded Archdemon has been slain and the advance of the darkspawn halted by a lone, heroic Grey Warden. The kingdom rejoices, but at leastone question remains: what happened to Morrigan? The sorceress joined the Wardens cause, but it is said her true purpose was not revealed until the eve of the last battle. She vanished into the shadows, and while rumors claimed she crossed over the mountains into Orlais no traceof her path could be found. She was never heard from again... until now. Nearly a year has passed since the Archdemon's death, and word has reached the Wardens that Morrigan has returned to Ferelden. She has been sighted in the southern wilderness where she was first encountered. Is it truly her? If it is, then why is she here and what secret does she carry with her? The Warden heads into the forest to find out and tie up this last loose end once and for all.


It still reeks of a retcon to me- the fact that there was so much of a focus on Orlais in Origins and how in every epilogue Morrigan heads that way and that the Urthemiel Plateau is in Orlais, just seems like too much of a coincidence. The obvious answer is that they just retconned it to use old Origins assets again, just like Leliana's Song should have taken place in Orlais, but they hand waved that away by saying the events in that DLC were merely Leliana's retelling. Its pretty telling when outside of the DLC completed pre release like Shale or Warden's Keep, the rest just recycled environments (outside of Awakening). I'm just wondering if Awakening ate up their DLC budget and thats why the later stuff is all recycled...

Terra_Ex wrote...
Did he actually confirm that? I know it came up as a question, but I thought it was one where he smiled or said "maybe.."


Hmm...I'd have to check again....

Modifié par Brockololly, 10 septembre 2010 - 08:01 .


#9652
Terra_Ex

Terra_Ex
  • Members
  • 632 messages

Brockololly wrote...
Thats why especially after Witch Hunt, it seems to me that Morrigan is really tied to the Warden, whether they're The Hero of Ferelden or the Orlesian even. So to have her show up in the future with no sign of the Warden interacting with some new PC would really take the wind out of the sails for her plot. You do that and you end up with the sort of boring scene in WItch Hunt where you chat with her as the Orlesian- its all business like and not half as interesting if you're the original Warden. But even now the Orlesian has some history with Morrigan.

I truly do hope that is the case for romancing wardens, as otherwise it'd do more than take the wind of the sails for all the fans who have only just been "rewarded" after several long months of agony. In fact it'd be a killing blow. I'm quietly confident this won't be the case though. I'm just thinking how epic it would to encounter them as a separate protagonist - showing them from a different POV than we're used to would be interesting. Maybe we'll even find ourselves in a situation where a future game has multiple protagonists, I've seen it done before to good effect.

Brockololly wrote...
As for the timelines and epilogues, its hard to say as the epilogues jump all over the place time wise. Even in Witch Hunt  I was a bit confused- in my import from Awakening on the map, you'll see Vigil's Keep. And when you mouse over it, it gives a brief update on it and it says something how its been 2 years since The Mother's attack. Which doesn't make sense- Origins ended and a couple months past to Awakening which took about 6 months to complete the events of. And then Witch Hunt is supposed to take place 1 year after the Archdemon died, or the end of Origins. So that doesn't even add up.

Hmmm, maybe one of the writers can clarify what's going on, maybe there's supposed to be alternate text on mouse over that isn't showing... or it was overlooked.

Brockololly wrote...
It still reeks of a retcon to me- the fact that there was so much of a focus on Orlais in Origins and how in every epilogue Morrigan heads that way and that the Urthemiel Plateau is in Orlais, just seems like too much of a coincidence. The obvious answer is that they just retconned it to use old Origins assets again, just like Leliana's Song should have taken place in Orlais, but they hand waved that away by saying the events in that DLC were merely Leliana's retelling. Its pretty telling when outside of the DLC completed pre release like Shale or Warden's Keep, the rest just recycled environments (outside of Awakening). I'm just wondering if Awakening ate up their DLC budget and thats why the later stuff is all recycled...

Oh yeah, I'm totally with you that the original plan was probably Morrigan heading into Orlais and the next game picking up there, there's lots of signposting for that, but at least those epilogue slides aren't invalidated by WH. The hand-waving was far from effective for Leli's song, but things like revisiting Flemeth's hut with the clickable areas to give some exposition helped it to fit. The only reason I can see for the recycling is they're simply *that* busy with DA2, asset creation is generally a very lengthy part of development. Luckily with WH you can get away with it easier.

#9653
Morrigans God son

Morrigans God son
  • Members
  • 483 messages
Can anybody tell me what the secret achievement is for Witch Hunt? Or at least I think it's for Witch hunt...=/


#9654
Brockololly

Brockololly
  • Members
  • 9 037 messages

Terra_Ex wrote...
Did you listen to Gaider's description of the combat changes during PAX, that set things out a bit better in my mind.

yeah, I don't mind some of the stuff like getting rid of the shuffling and what not- that sounds good. I'm more concerned that the PC version plays like a console game- that its being designed for the consoles and as such cuts down on more PC oriented features that maybe the console can't do well, or they're streamlining the depth out of the game. Already it seems as if friendly fire is limited to Nightmare mode and there are some other things like limiting dual wielding to rogues that sort of irk me. It just seems like the focus is on the consoles and whatever works there will be presumed to be "good enough" for the PC- kind of how they handled the ME2 PC port...meh.

Terra_Ex wrote...
I truly do hope that is the case for
romancing wardens, as otherwise it'd do more than take the wind of the
sails for all the fans who have only just been "rewarded" after several
long months of agony. In fact it'd be a killing blow. I'm quietly
confident this won't be the case though. I'm just thinking how epic it
would to encounter them as a separate protagonist - showing them from a
different POV than we're used to would be interesting. Maybe we'll even
find ourselves in a situation where a future game has multiple
protagonists, I've seen it done before to good effect.

Yeah, if done right, they could even trump the traditional trilogy structure of a BG or ME in this way. Having a choice between Hawke or the Warden as the PC in DA3- not likely, but being able to sort of build up the world through different characters then bring them back together in a future game would be very neat. My one big lingering concern with the Warden's future however is the fact that he isn't voice acted and it seems thats become BioWare's staple. I have a hard time imagining them going back to the text lines after implementing ME's cinematic dialogue wheel with Hawke in DA2. Of course, given that Hawke is voiced and your actions mold his personality, it seems quite easy for Hawke to potentially show up as an NPC in the future.

Terra_Ex wrote...
The
hand-waving was far from effective for Leli's song, but things like
revisiting Flemeth's hut with the clickable areas to give some
exposition helped it to fit. The only reason I can see for the recycling
is they're simply *that* busy with DA2, asset creation is generally a
very lengthy part of development. Luckily with WH you can get away with
it easier.

I really didn't mind the recycled areas in Witch Hunt. Once you get over the fact that it should have been in the Frostbacks or Orlais, its neat to go back to those areas of Ferelden. I loved going back to Flemeth's Hut- it was a nice nod at continuity being able to click on the area where you killed her. And it was nice being able to go back to the Mage's Tower or the Elven ruins or Cadash Taig. At least it made sense in the narrative, whereas with Leliana's Song they sort of recycled areas and it was clear it was due to a lack of resources most likely.

#9655
Brockololly

Brockololly
  • Members
  • 9 037 messages

Morrigans God son wrote...

Can anybody tell me what the secret achievement is for Witch Hunt? Or at least I think it's for Witch hunt...=/


I don't think there are any secret achievements for WH- you've got the one if you kill the Varterral on hard or nightmare, the one for finishing the DLC, the one for collecting the notes in Cadash Thaig and the one for going through the scrying ritual with the mirror.

#9656
Bruddajakka

Bruddajakka
  • Members
  • 1 508 messages
You know I'd be perfectly happy if my Warden doesn't show up again mainly because the WH ending was perfect more or less once I got past the DR bug. He got to head off into the sunset with the woman he loved, and their child. Mean he's able to be as much a part of it's development as Morrigan is.

#9657
elemme

elemme
  • Members
  • 53 messages
Hi everyone, I have been boycotting bioware since I finished dao because I hated morri's ending so much. I just noticed witch hunt and thought I would pick it up. Is it worth going through awakenings before witch hunt? Thanks in advance.

#9658
Brockololly

Brockololly
  • Members
  • 9 037 messages

Bruddajakka wrote...

You know I'd be perfectly happy if my Warden doesn't show up again mainly because the WH ending was perfect more or less once I got past the DR bug. He got to head off into the sunset with the woman he loved, and their child. Mean he's able to be as much a part of it's development as Morrigan is.

I'd mostly agree except the problem is that I think Morrigan is all but guaranteed to show up down the road. So would you want Morrigan showing up and playing a major role in the story without the Warden? I wouldn't...

elemme wrote...

Hi everyone, I have been boycotting
bioware since I finished dao because I hated morri's ending so much. I
just noticed witch hunt and thought I would pick it up. Is it worth
going through awakenings before witch hunt? Thanks in advance.

Awakening doesn't add anything storywise really to Witch Hunt. So besides having better gear and being higher, level there isn't any advantage really. Just be sure to import from a saved game in the throne room or before and not from the post-epilogue save in camp, or else your meeting with Morrigan in Witch Hunt may be bugged. Check the first page of this thread for the details...

#9659
blademaster7

blademaster7
  • Members
  • 1 596 messages
The only noticeable difference is that Awakening makes the DLC a total cakewalk. Not that it's gonna give you a challenge if you import a lv. 23 Warden from Origins, but still.



There is also a couple of references iirc, such as being the Warden Commander, but only one person calls you that.

#9660
Terra_Ex

Terra_Ex
  • Members
  • 632 messages

Bruddajakka wrote...

You know I'd be perfectly happy if my
Warden doesn't show up again mainly because the WH ending was perfect
more or less once I got past the DR bug. He got to head off into the
sunset with the woman he loved, and their child. Mean he's able to be as
much a part of it's development as Morrigan is.

You don't
think that since Morrigan's role isn't over it would be gratifying if he
was there helping her out in DA3 rather than inexplicably disappearing
after WH? It'd be pretty disappointing for me at least.

Brockololly wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...
Did you listen to Gaider's description of the combat changes during PAX, that set things out a bit better in my mind.

yeah, I don't mind some of the stuff like getting rid of the shuffling and what not- that sounds good. I'm more concerned that the PC version plays like a console game- that its being designed for the consoles and as such cuts down on more PC oriented features that maybe the console can't do well, or they're streamlining the depth out of the game. Already it seems as if friendly fire is limited to Nightmare mode and there are some other things like limiting dual wielding to rogues that sort of irk me. It just seems like the focus is on the consoles and whatever works there will be presumed to be "good enough" for the PC- kind of how they handled the ME2 PC port...meh.

Hmmm, not even 1/2 damage friendly fire for hard mode? Well, you're right, they can say there is "no lead platform" but if the actual scope of the game mechanics are dictated by what works on a console then the end result may not be optimal for PC.


Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, if done right, they could even trump the traditional trilogy structure of a BG or ME in this way. Having a choice between Hawke or the Warden as the PC in DA3- not likely, but being able to sort of build up the world through different characters then bring them back together in a future game would be very neat. My one big lingering concern with the Warden's future however is the fact that he isn't voice acted and it seems thats become BioWare's staple. I have a hard time imagining them going back to the text lines after implementing ME's cinematic dialogue wheel with Hawke in DA2. Of course, given that Hawke is voiced and your actions mold his personality, it seems quite easy for Hawke to potentially show up as an NPC in the future.

Well, they could either voice him which they'd probably have to if it was a cameo role (I'd learn to deal with it) or have him/her simply not speak, as an homage of sorts (though this probably wouldn't work too well imo).


Brockololly wrote...

I really didn't mind the recycled areas in Witch Hunt. Once you get over the fact that it should have been in the Frostbacks or Orlais, its neat to go back to those areas of Ferelden. I loved going back to Flemeth's Hut- it was a nice nod at continuity being able to click on the area where you killed her. And it was nice being able to go back to the Mage's Tower or the Elven ruins or Cadash Taig. At least it made sense in the narrative, whereas with Leliana's Song they sort of recycled areas and it was clear it was due to a lack of resources most likely.

I always liked the Korcari Wilds/Flemeth's hut music and as you say it was good to revisit. And bizarrely, Leli's song goes all out on added some pretty decent music, so maybe that's where the budget went. WH had both Claudia Black and Yuri Lowenthal, both big names. As discussed earlier in the thread there's a massive outcry from a lot of people regarding Witch Hunt, but what were they expecting from a DLC, really? Morri-fans came out pretty damn well imo, there's lot of complaints over the combat which tbh can't really be avoided since you're possibly lvl 35. I still found the questions for an origins warden to be fairly satisfactory considering they're not going to give away major plot points, it provided a link between the two games, setting the stage whilst not completely writing out the warden from the picture. Still, 2yrs+ with no Morri fix...

That reminds me Brock, when are you going to write up your thoughts on WH that you mentioned yesterday?

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 10 septembre 2010 - 09:57 .


#9661
Terra_Ex

Terra_Ex
  • Members
  • 632 messages
Awakening adds Vigil's Keep to the map for you to mouse over, it also makes you a heck of a lot more powerful, thus more deserving of Morri's love [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/heart.png[/smilie]

#9662
Jarlof Seoul

Jarlof Seoul
  • Members
  • 432 messages

elemme wrote...

Hi everyone, I have been boycotting bioware since I finished dao because I hated morri's ending so much. I just noticed witch hunt and thought I would pick it up. Is it worth going through awakenings before witch hunt? Thanks in advance.


Very worth it. Ties up the loose end as well as one could hope for in the gaming world, and media (books/TV/film) in general. I was in the same boat. WH made my original DA enthusiasm come back with a vengeance. Now can enjoy and look fwd to DA2.

#9663
ximena

ximena
  • Members
  • 769 messages

blademaster7 wrote...



There is also a couple of references iirc, such as being the Warden Commander, but only one person calls you that.


Got called Warden Commander too even if it was an Origins save. XD

#9664
MKDAWUSS

MKDAWUSS
  • Members
  • 3 416 messages
Totally random thought and slight joke. Did the mirror transport Morrigan into the MySims universe?

#9665
Brockololly

Brockololly
  • Members
  • 9 037 messages

Terra_Ex wrote...
Hmmm, not even 1/2 damage friendly fire for hard mode? Well, you're right, they can say there is "no lead platform" but if the actual scope of the game mechanics are dictated by what works on a console then the end result may not be optimal for PC.

Thats my issue- they're clearly designing DA2 from the ground up on the console and simply porting that over to the PC, just adding mouse and keyboard support with the hotbar. DAO had differences in the number of enemies on the screen cause the PC could handle more and the game was balanced differently on the PC with FF and all appropriately. For more specifics on gameplay related changes, Peter Thomas (lead gameplay designer) is answering tons of questions in this thread.

Terra_Ex wrote...
Well, they could either voice him which they'd probably have to if it was a cameo role (I'd learn to deal with it) or have him/her simply not speak, as an homage of sorts (though this probably wouldn't work too well imo).

The only big problem with adding voice to the Warden is race. Now with DA2, Gaider mentioned yesterday in the DA2 forums that the Dalish will have Welsh accents while Fereldens have English, and the City Elves and Dwarves have American accents. So if they were to VO the Warden, thats 3 possible accents, not to mention male and female? Or would they ignore that fact and give one accent?

Terra_Ex wrote...
I always liked the Korcari Wilds/Flemeth's hut music and as you say it was good to revisit. And bizarrely, Leli's song goes all out on added some pretty decent music, so maybe that's where the budget went. WH had both Claudia Black and Yuri Lowenthal, both big names. As discussed earlier in the thread there's a massive outcry from a lot of people regarding Witch Hunt, but what were they expecting from a DLC, really? Morri-fans came out pretty damn well imo, there's lot of complaints over the combat which tbh can't really be avoided since you're possibly lvl 35. I still found the questions for an origins warden to be fairly satisfactory considering they're not going to give away major plot points, it provided a link between the two games, setting the stage whilst not completely writing out the warden from the picture.

I think in large part its due to the marketing of the thing and the fact that people thought this would totally conclude Morrigan's story, in part because of the marketing again. But for the Morrigan romancing Wardens this DLC was just about all you could have hoped for in a $7 DLC.

Terra_Ex wrote...
Still, 2yrs+ with no Morri fix...


Nonsense! You've got more Morrigan coming this fall, courtesy of MySims SkyHeroes!
Posted Image

Terra_Ex wrote...
That reminds me Brock, when are you going to write up your thoughts on WH that you mentioned yesterday?

Going to play through WH one more time, then write somthing up!:wizard:


MKDAWUSS wrote...

Totally random thought and slight joke. Did the mirror transport Morrigan into the MySims universe?

Hahaha- you read my mind=]

Modifié par Brockololly, 10 septembre 2010 - 10:54 .


#9666
Jarlof Seoul

Jarlof Seoul
  • Members
  • 432 messages

Bruddajakka wrote...

You know I'd be perfectly happy if my Warden doesn't show up again mainly because the WH ending was perfect more or less once I got past the DR bug. He got to head off into the sunset with the woman he loved, and their child. Mean he's able to be as much a part of it's development as Morrigan is.


I agree. If I never see Warden again, I'm cool with my sunset ending too. Still as a Morrigan Nation member and Morrison and Warden fan, I would love an epic story arc with OGB/Morrison involvement in DA future sequel. Either way is ok, but the latter is better.

#9667
Jarlof Seoul

Jarlof Seoul
  • Members
  • 432 messages
Didn't mind the relative ease of combat with a 30+ level character. The combat, while always enjoyable was less of concern than the quest itself for Morri (which I enjoyed) and the last 5 mins of the actual meeting (have replayed several times a day since release I enjoy it so much).

#9668
Brockololly

Brockololly
  • Members
  • 9 037 messages
Thought this guy's improvisational shirt/sign from PAX was funny and pathetic all rolled into one- look at what BioWare is doing to people! :lol::lol:

Posted Image

#9669
GardenSnake

GardenSnake
  • Members
  • 425 messages

Brockololly wrote...

Thought this guy's improvisational shirt/sign from PAX was funny and pathetic all rolled into one- look at what BioWare is doing to people! :lol::lol:

Posted Image

That guy's my hero. Well, he can rest easy knowing that he got his point across, or at least got laughed at by everybody else at PAX.

#9670
MKDAWUSS

MKDAWUSS
  • Members
  • 3 416 messages

Brockololly wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...
Well, they could either voice him which they'd probably have to if it was a cameo role (I'd learn to deal with it) or have him/her simply not speak, as an homage of sorts (though this probably wouldn't work too well imo).

The only big problem with adding voice to the Warden is race. Now with DA2, Gaider mentioned yesterday in the DA2 forums that the Dalish will have Welsh accents while Fereldens have English, and the City Elves and Dwarves have American accents. So if they were to VO the Warden, thats 3 possible accents, not to mention male and female? Or would they ignore that fact and give one accent?


Not just race but voice selection. You could pick 5 voice sets for each race/gender combination, so 5 HM + 5 HF + 5 EM + 5 EF + 5 DM + 5 DF would be the number of total voice sets the Warden would receive.

One thing to note, regarding the Warden, if you moused over Lothering in Witch Hunt, it mentions that a statue of Hero of Ferelden was built. Maybe THAT's where the Warden makes a DA2 cameo. It'll probably be a weathered statue so facial details can be ignored, that just leaves human, dwarf, and elf body shapes to deal with. It'd be a dynamic object on a static pedestal.

#9671
Morrigans God son

Morrigans God son
  • Members
  • 483 messages

Brockololly wrote...

Thought this guy's improvisational shirt/sign from PAX was funny and pathetic all rolled into one- look at what BioWare is doing to people! :lol::lol:

Posted Image


What does that say? I can't read it :(

#9672
MKDAWUSS

MKDAWUSS
  • Members
  • 3 416 messages

GardenSnake wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Thought this guy's improvisational shirt/sign from PAX was funny and pathetic all rolled into one- look at what BioWare is doing to people! :lol::lol:

Posted Image

That guy's my hero. Well, he can rest easy knowing that he got his point across, or at least got laughed at by everybody else at PAX.


He probably got weird looks from everyone if he wore that outside of PAX, especially those who aren't too familiar with Dragon Age.

#9673
MKDAWUSS

MKDAWUSS
  • Members
  • 3 416 messages

Morrigans God son wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Thought this guy's improvisational shirt/sign from PAX was funny and pathetic all rolled into one- look at what BioWare is doing to people! :lol::lol:

Posted Image


What does that say? I can't read it :(


Need to find Morrigan!!
She had my
Child!!!

#9674
Morrigans God son

Morrigans God son
  • Members
  • 483 messages

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Morrigans God son wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Thought this guy's improvisational shirt/sign from PAX was funny and pathetic all rolled into one- look at what BioWare is doing to people! :lol::lol:

Posted Image


What does that say? I can't read it :(


Need to find Morrigan!!
She had my
Child!!!


Wow is that not a bit.....much? Posted Image
Oh well that guy is a legend!

#9675
Jarlof Seoul

Jarlof Seoul
  • Members
  • 432 messages

Morrigans God son wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Morrigans God son wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Thought this guy's improvisational shirt/sign from PAX was funny and pathetic all rolled into one- look at what BioWare is doing to people! :lol::lol:

Posted Image


What does that say? I can't read it :(


Need to find Morrigan!!
She had my
Child!!!


Wow is that not a bit.....much? Posted Image
Oh well that guy is a legend!


I can relate. I felt the same way. That guy's a true DA Morri Fan!