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THE Morrigan Discussion and Research Thread *Infested with Bugs Yet Again!*


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#9726
Brockololly

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Gilsa wrote...
If you want a RP reason for a mage to use a knife then I would say that it's mainly to catch Morrigan off-guard since she'd be expecting magic. Doesn't it take some time to cast a lethal spell?

I don't think there is much of a reason beyond limited budget and such for the Warden, mage or otherwise using the murder knife on Morrigan. In the PAX chats Gaider was asked if the murder knife is returning and it isn't in DA2- I think they'll use more class specific implements when the time calls for murder. And really, RP wise, I'd think quickly shivving Morrigan is the quickest way to go if you're set on killing her as she wouldn't have time to react.

But the whole notion that Morrigan asks permission to go seems a bit of a stretch, especially doing so with a hostile Warden. For someone who values survival so much, it seems awfully contrived for her to let her guard down that much. Then again, going by her shocked expression she no doubt feels betrayed at getting stabbed- but that only makes sense if you haven't telegraphed your intentions to her in that conversation I guess.

Terra_Ex wrote...
I don't think epilogue slides are necessary here, all wardens get warned of something big on the horizon, provided you listen to what she has to  say you're given "something" that presumably has some significance to  your continued survival. Or it's a remnant of something that got cut,  which would be disappointing to say the least.

Maybe not epilogue slides, but just something more I guess. Like the ending cinematic from Throne of Bhaal with the voice over. Something that has a bit more polish and production values than simply fading to black and the credits. Some sort of dénouement is all.
I really hope they get the Baldur's Gate narrator guy for DA2!:o

Terra_Ex wrote...

You know, that's a excellent point, the NPCs  actually questioning you in any meaningful manner is something of a  rarity so the 180 presented here is another point in its favour.

Its especially bad I thought in ME2- your Shep could be a survivor of Akuze and have all sorts of mental baggage even beyond being a freakin' Cerberus cyborg, but does anyone ask how you're doing? Nope, they just **** and moan about how you need to help them with their problems. Seriously- get your own freakin' groceries., Cook.

Terra_Ex wrote...
As I see (and the warden) it, Morrigan is probably the only person I can  picture truly managing to take Flemeth down, I honestly don't believe any of the central protagonists will be afforded that opportunity. The  grey warden tried to and failed, Ariane mentions Flemeth in their  opening conversation so he/she has adequate information to discern that  she's up to something and has presumably tried to use the warden,  morrigan and others as pawns in whatever she's orchestrating. Attempting to off the one person who has some insight on Flemeth just because  Morrigan won't divulge all her plans to you, why it's downright myopic.

Yeah, whatever is brewing Morrigan seems to be the only one with a clue. So is it really wise to kill or otherwise ****** off the only person with any knowledge of what Flemeth, some sort of super being, has planned for all of Thedas?


Terra_Ex wrote...
10 years of preparation is my guess. And presumably it has something to do with taking down Flemeth, or usurping her.

True- although, depending on the timeline it might not even be 10 years. If you figure DA2 takes place over 10 years, that starts at Lothering at the beginning of DAO. Figure that DAO lasts about 1 year, plus to the end of Awakening thats maybe 6 months then Witch Hunt is one year post Origins. So by the time you enter the portal or walk away from the Eluvian, thats already 2 years post Lothering, so it would conceivably only be about 8 years until the events in DA2 are over.
I could speculate on Morrigan's whole "change" speech, but maybe I'll hold that novel for tomorrow.:wizard:

Terra_Ex wrote...
I hope this is implying an increased Grey Warden presence when the  Morri/Flemeth subplot eventually explodes, since she references the  wardens specifically it almost certainly involves the darkspawn.

That, combined with her reference to the Orlesian that Flemeth may have had a larger role in the Blight than he realized or that FLemeth isn't even human makes me wonder if perhaps Flemeth has a much larger role in the Blight and perhaps some connection to the original darkspawn as a Tevinter magister.
Especially after you chat with Avernus, I always hoped they'd explore the Taint more thoroughly. It reminds me of the Bhaalspawn essence and how you could turn into the Ravager in BG2 sort of. And I think Avernus mentions that the secrets of theTaint lie with the Black City....

Gilsa wrote...
I was willing to accept that  Morrigan wouldn't tell my non-DR warden anything because I thought that  was a consequence of trust being broken, but when I ran my  romanced-Morrigan warden through and my Orlesian warden through and  found that the answers were pretty much the same, it really made the  whole DLC cheap. I was glad that I had a warden that romanced her so I got *something* out of it at least.

I wish that at least for the romancing Warden or a friendly one, Morrigan would have given some more substantial answers. I mean, why is Morrigan so reluctant to give answers yet she is willing to let the Warden follow her into the mirror, where presumably he'd find out answers anyway? Wouldn't it be best to give him a quick primer before going through the mirror? 

Unless Morrigan's plans involve something she fears the Warden may find objectionable or suitably shocking? Maybe not even something nefarious or evil, but something in her plans that may bring harm or risk to her well being which a romancing Warden might object to? After all, I'm wondering- Morrigan is all about survival and power, but to what end? For herself or simply for her plan and the potential Old God baby? Maybe she only seeks power and survival such that her plans can succeed, but she knows that in achieving her plan's success it may kill her or otherwise jeopardize her life, something a romancing Warden might object to? Maybe thats why she doesn't want the Warden to follow, knowing her eventual fate will only cause the Warden more grief and heartache?

Modifié par Brockololly, 12 septembre 2010 - 02:35 .


#9727
phaonica

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Attempting to off the one person who has some insight on Flemeth just because Morrigan won't divulge all her plans to you, why it's downright myopic.




At the very least can we have a conversation where we aren't accusing each other of being myopic, etc? Those of us who did kill her aren't accusing everyone else of being naive, or blind, or anything.



Yeah, whatever is brewing Morrigan seems to be the only one with a clue. So is it really wise to kill or otherwise ****** off the only person with any knowledge of what Flemeth, some sort of super being, has planned for all of Thedas?




Just because 'change is coming to the world' doesn't mean that Flemeth is the one who is the cause of it. And furthermore, whatever this change is, Morrigan seems to support it.

#9728
Zjarcal

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Gilsa wrote...

It doesn't make sense for a strange dog to be happy to see Morrigan either. People like to tout the Morrigan/dog reunion as proof that she's a good person, but the same scene plays out no matter who the dog is.


Damn! That's what I call sloppy! It seems the Orlesian was thrown in at the last second and they forgot to take out the things that didn't fit.

I still maintain the Morrigan/Dog reunion is proof she's not an evil entity (thanks to Dog's uber "evil entity" detection skills) because that scene should not have played with a strange dog in the first place. They just forgot to take it out.

I was planning on playing WH with an Orlesian but not anymore.

#9729
Terra_Ex

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phaonica wrote...

At the very least can we have a conversation where we aren't accusing each other of being myopic, etc? Those of us who did kill her aren't accusing everyone else of being naive, or blind, or anything.

Ah, phaonica, it's merely a long running in-joke in the morri thread, don't take it personally, that last bit wasn't serious.

#9730
Brockololly

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phaonica wrote...

Attempting to off the one person who has some insight on Flemeth just because Morrigan won't divulge all her plans to you, why it's downright myopic.

At the very least can we have a conversation where we aren't accusing each other of being myopic, etc? Those of us who did kill her aren't accusing everyone else of being naive, or blind, or anything.


*In TV narrator guy voice* Previously in the Morrigan thread: As Terra mentioned, here is the Origin of the"myopic" statement' from several months ago in this thread:

David Gaider wrote...

I'm certain that no matter what we decide to do, as soon as we announce it there will be an initial  reaction in some quarters of people being upset at what isn't there rather than what is. The imaginary game they've built up in their head  is now gone, and we're to blame-- and they won't see the next game for  what it actually is until it's in their hands.

That's pretty normal. Fans have their expectations, some reasonable and some far less  so, but our goal is to provide an excellent game-- we've promised  nothing more. If someone really wants to declare that they couldn't possibly enjoy another Dragon Age title unless it continues the story from DAO,  complete with their character and romance(s) and every possible  permutation of Origins accounted for, and couldn't stand on it's own...  well okay, I think that's a bit myopic, but you've got no reason to  think of anything beyond what you've currently got right in front of you so it's completely forgiveable.

At the end of the day, you'll  see what we've got in store for you in the future and decide if it's for you. I can't imagine that it'll make everyone happy, but then it never does. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]



phaonica wrote...
Just because 'change is coming to the world' doesn't mean that Flemeth is the one who is the cause of it. And furthermore, whatever this change is, Morrigan seems to support it.

True, but I guess the question is why does Morrigan seem to fear FLemeth so much now and what is Flemeth's true form and true plan if not immortality? Its seems to be somthing that distresses Morrigan a great deal.

As for Morrigan supporting the change, yeah, she gives you the old devious sneer in that scene and I don't know what to make of that. Morrigan could be the driving force for that change, or maybe Flemeth is or maybe its just something completely out of her control that she knows is coming? Hard to say....
Posted Image

Modifié par Brockololly, 12 septembre 2010 - 03:38 .


#9731
GardenSnake

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Zjarcal wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

It doesn't make sense for a strange dog to be happy to see Morrigan either. People like to tout the Morrigan/dog reunion as proof that she's a good person, but the same scene plays out no matter who the dog is.


Damn! That's what I call sloppy! It seems the Orlesian was thrown in at the last second and they forgot to take out the things that didn't fit.

I still maintain the Morrigan/Dog reunion is proof she's not an evil entity (thanks to Dog's uber "evil entity" detection skills) because that scene should not have played with a strange dog in the first place. They just forgot to take it out.

I was planning on playing WH with an Orlesian but not anymore.

There wasn't enough evidence in Origins to prove that she isn't evil? Posted Image My first playthrough, I thought she was a **** until about three hours in when her romance started to get a bit more serious than just 'friends with benefits'.
I mean sure she went all cryptic and Kreia-like (Atton probably would have walked out of the room if he were in the place of the Warden in that scene. Too cryptic and foreboding for him Posted Image) in the DR scene, but I always thought that she was more than just a character with secret plans to take over/harm Thedas.

#9732
Zjarcal

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GardenSnake wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

It doesn't make sense for a strange dog to be happy to see Morrigan either. People like to tout the Morrigan/dog reunion as proof that she's a good person, but the same scene plays out no matter who the dog is.


Damn! That's what I call sloppy! It seems the Orlesian was thrown in at the last second and they forgot to take out the things that didn't fit.

I still maintain the Morrigan/Dog reunion is proof she's not an evil entity (thanks to Dog's uber "evil entity" detection skills) because that scene should not have played with a strange dog in the first place. They just forgot to take it out.

I was planning on playing WH with an Orlesian but not anymore.

There wasn't enough evidence in Origins to prove that she isn't evil? Posted Image 


I think you're misinterpreting my post. The Dog reunion is just another tidbit that proves that Morrigan isn't the cruel and evil b!tch that some people paint her to be.

Of course there's plenty of evidence in Origins to prove that (I for never thought that Morrigan was the devil), but the Dog bit is sort of "unquestionable" due to Dog being the ultimate "snitch detector". It's a bit of a tongue in cheek sort of thing...:P

#9733
phaonica

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Terra_Ex wrote...

phaonica wrote...

At the very least can we have a conversation where we aren't accusing each other of being myopic, etc? Those of us who did kill her aren't accusing everyone else of being naive, or blind, or anything.

Ah, phaonica, it's merely a long running in-joke in the morri thread, don't take it personally, that last bit wasn't serious.


I'm sorry. I really am being too sensitive about the whole thing. Posted Image
After the explosion of comments about the choice being utterly indefensible, evil, stupid, narrow minded, self indulgent, deserving of death by fire... I've probably become overly defensive about it.

#9734
Guest_PureMethodActor_*

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Hmm, well for my theoretical question, I think I got enough answers (thank you as well Brockololly, for yours). Yeah I think overall the stabby scene is just a cost-cutter that one would have to roleplay to explain to oneself, which I already did with that particular Warden.



As far as the answers Morrigan gives, I truly believe friend and lover wardens should have gotten more answers, especially romancing wardens, who have the most to invest in a future with Morrigan (those Wardens go into an interdemensional portal without knowing if they'll ever get out, afterall :D). True, we can all agree that Morrigan's hints are mostly promotional teasers for Dragon Age 2, but I think she could have spilt a little more of her plans, AT LEAST so we can know if she's a clear enemy of Flemeth or still being forced to do her dirty work (and if it is clear to others, I apologize but I didn't see a clear answer to this when I watched the proper ending youtube clip).



I personally am looking a bit more forward to DA2 and to getting a bigger glimpse into Flemeth's overall plan. I'll have to wait for a rental opportunity or to borrow from a friend, but I'll still be looking forward to it regardless.

#9735
spoe71

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To be honest, considering the bugged ending I got, I think it would have been a better ending had the dog bolted up there to say hello and, due to the force, knocked them both through the dang portal and that be the end of it. At least I could have gotten a laugh and not a ...uh, what?

#9736
Gennojo Ryuga

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Speaking of bugs, I wonder if the patch has been released and if not how much longer before it does get released?

#9737
Brockololly

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Gennojo Ryuga wrote...

Speaking of bugs, I wonder if the patch has been released and if not how much longer before it does get released?


I believe Victor or Fernando mentioned in one of the threads about the patch that the plan is to release it for PC on Monday and to have the console versions submitted to MS and Sony early next week.

#9738
Bruddajakka

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And it could be she doesn't want to tell you what's going on seeing as how there's two people she's never met, and doesn't trust standing ten feet behind you.

#9739
Jarlof Seoul

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Just happy I got my closure. Rode off into sunset with Morri babe. I love it.



Witch Hunt rocks.

#9740
Nerevar-as

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Brockololly wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...

You know, that's a excellent point, the NPCs  actually questioning you in any meaningful manner is something of a  rarity so the 180 presented here is another point in its favour.

Its especially bad I thought in ME2- your Shep could be a survivor of Akuze and have all sorts of mental baggage even beyond being a freakin' Cerberus cyborg, but does anyone ask how you're doing? Nope, they just **** and moan about how you need to help them with their problems. Seriously- get your own freakin' groceries., Cook.



Liara does in LotSB. Quite a surprise indeed.

Best thing about WH was going with Morrigan. We really hadn´t been given a reason why the Warden couldn´t go with her. But for a not romanced Morrigan it was just another DA2 teaser. Good thing I stopped paying attention to BW marketing after ME2.

#9741
Whrill

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Am i thinking this too tricky or what..... i did Dark ritual and bought witch hunt DLC and in the "end talking" with morrigan she says you denied me the ritual??? i accepted the ritual why she says i denied it? she also says i denied her at redcliffe but i am still alive (whats that soppused to mean?)...but i accepted the ritual is this some sort of bug or whats wrong? but she still speaks about our son and so on... and WH doesn't save after speaking with her and end texts come then i press resume and ill be back in the area where i killed the strider..(is it supposed to save after i made my decision?)

#9742
Guest_Acharnae_*

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Whrill wrote...

Am i thinking this too tricky or what..... i did Dark ritual and bought witch hunt DLC and in the "end talking" with morrigan she says you denied me the ritual??? i accepted the ritual why she says i denied it? she also says i denied her at redcliffe but i am still alive (whats that soppused to mean?)...but i accepted the ritual is this some sort of bug or whats wrong? but she still speaks about our son and so on... and WH doesn't save after speaking with her and end texts come then i press resume and ill be back in the area where i killed the strider..(is it supposed to save after i made my decision?)



From what I read here, if you import a character from en epilogue save game there is a bug and morrigan doesnt recognize you did the wild thing with her.
if you import a savegame from post - coronation (thats what i did) or maybe another earlier savegame there should not be a problem.

#9743
Brockololly

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Whrill wrote...

Am i thinking this too tricky or what..... i did Dark ritual and bought witch hunt DLC and in the "end talking" with morrigan she says you denied me the ritual??? i accepted the ritual why she says i denied it? she also says i denied her at redcliffe but i am still alive (whats that soppused to mean?)...but i accepted the ritual is this some sort of bug or whats wrong? but she still speaks about our son and so on... and WH doesn't save after speaking with her and end texts come then i press resume and ill be back in the area where i killed the strider..(is it supposed to save after i made my decision?)


Yeah, read the post on the very first page- it explains the nature of Witch Hunt's bug. Basically, if you want the proper ending with Morrigan, you need to import from a save before the post epilogue save at camp in Origins. So any saved game from the throne room scene or earlier should give you the correct "version" of Morrigan.

#9744
KendallX23

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well with the patch coming..why use other saves..just wait for the patch

#9745
soundchaser721

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KendallX23 wrote...

well with the patch coming..why use other saves..just wait for the patch


Thats what I'm doing. I'm just glad I wont have to do an Awakening/Golems run through... that would have been awful.

#9746
KendallX23

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soundchaser721 wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

well with the patch coming..why use other saves..just wait for the patch


Thats what I'm doing. I'm just glad I wont have to do an Awakening/Golems run through... that would have been awful.


     hah..i've got at least 5 awakening/golems run through...:))

#9747
UFOash

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Hello, you'll forgive me if I'm too lazy to read through the 390 pages. Posted Image

I was wondering on the topic on the front page, is this/will this be patched?

#9748
Barbarossa2010

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Brockololly wrote...

phaonica wrote...


Attempting to off the one person who has some insight on Flemeth just because Morrigan won't divulge all her plans to you, why it's downright myopic.

At the very least can we have a conversation where we aren't accusing each other of being myopic, etc? Those of us who did kill her aren't accusing everyone else of being naive, or blind, or anything.


*In TV narrator guy voice* Previously in the Morrigan thread: As Terra mentioned, here is the Origin of the"myopic" statement' from several months ago in this thread:

David Gaider wrote...

I'm certain that no matter what we decide to do, as soon as we announce it there will be an initial  reaction in some quarters of people being upset at what isn't there rather than what is. The imaginary game they've built up in their head  is now gone, and we're to blame-- and they won't see the next game for  what it actually is until it's in their hands.

That's pretty normal. Fans have their expectations, some reasonable and some far less  so, but our goal is to provide an excellent game-- we've promised  nothing more. If someone really wants to declare that they couldn't possibly enjoy another Dragon Age title unless it continues the story from DAO,  complete with their character and romance(s) and every possible  permutation of Origins accounted for, and couldn't stand on it's own...  well okay, I think that's a bit myopic, but you've got no reason to  think of anything beyond what you've currently got right in front of you so it's completely forgiveable.

At the end of the day, you'll  see what we've got in store for you in the future and decide if it's for you. I can't imagine that it'll make everyone happy, but then it never does. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png



And I still find the comment irritating to no end within the context of the DR at end game and what we knew of the story at the time it was made.  I mean, the utter attempt at the deflection of responsibility on the part of the developers was shocking to me.  Whle some players certainly do have unrealistic expectations, the Morrigan nation clearly did not and I think we took that particular comment very personal.

Ah well, I guess all is well since they have achieved some measure of redemption in WH's ending.  They did not have to produce it at all and it did say rather loud and clear to me that the DA Team is a bit more responsive to the fan base than I once believed.  Forgiveness is ours, not really David's.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 12 septembre 2010 - 08:47 .


#9749
Barbarossa2010

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UFOash wrote...

Hello, you'll forgive me if I'm too lazy to read through the 390 pages. Posted Image

I was wondering on the topic on the front page, is this/will this be patched?



In short, yes.  For PC probably early this week and for consoles a bit later after certification.  Terra_Ex (above) worked on the beta testing team for the patch.

#9750
Collider

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Does anyone have any tips on how to pace Morrigans' conversations?