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[KnightofPhoenix]

What would Morrigan's favorite food be?

....why do I get the feeling that my Cousland is going to be the one doing all the cooking in Mirror world? And all the bed time story telling, and underwear changing? And all the washing and cleaning?

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

What would Morrigan's favorite food be?
....why do I get the feeling that my Cousland is going to be the one doing all the cooking in Mirror world? And all the bed time story telling, and underwear changing? And all the washing and cleaning?

Yeah, I can't see Morrigan getting into the housewife role.

As for her favorite food, the DA wiki states that Cori May (Bioware employee) described Morrigan as "the darkest of dark chocolates; bitter but rich", so I take it Morri is a lover of chocolates?

Also Sheryl Chee said that if the party was going out for a drink, Morrigan would "refuse to partake in any such foolishness."

Modifié par Zjarcal, 19 septembre 2010 - 11:35 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...
Also Sheryl Chee said that if the party was going out for a drink, Morrigan would "refuse to partake in any such foolishness."

Yea I know and when I read that, I realised that me calling her perfect was not an exagerration

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
Also Sheryl Chee said that if the party was going out for a drink, Morrigan would "refuse to partake in any such foolishness."

Yea I know and when I read that, I realised that me calling her perfect was not an exagerration

It's almost as if the wrote Morrigan with you in mind! 

[Nerevar-as]

Brockololly wrote...

Similar to how ME2 redid combat and XP with ME3 starting you at a high level, I'd like to see BioWare give DA3 some well balanced high level combat. That way you can have a super powered Morrigan, Flemeth or Old God baby join your party while not making them seem like noobs once they're out of a cutscene.

ME3 starts at high level?
Leveling is a tricky thing when you keep characters from previous games. Kotor 2 had the droids (only squadies back in the squad) substaining serious damage before the game starts. In Gothic 2 the PC is lucky to be alive after what happened in the extended end movie from 1. Gothic 3 went for rescaling (which kind of worked) and forgetting a lot of skills with no reason (which didn´t). No idea about The Witcher 2 so far.
SO repeating characters in DA, especially if some is back in the group, may have this problem. With Morrigan, by the time she reappears, she should be Awakeing level in power or there would be some jarring gameplay - story segregation. There´s already a little in Origins. She´s probably more powerful in setting than her starting skills. Same goes for the Warden.

[Brockololly]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
 No one is omniscient and nothing is predetermined.  Things change and people never know (and cannot foresee) the future.  What we think may happen in the future rarely does.  To give a character such ability is contrived.

Seemingly except Flemeth- she really seems to be able to see into the future or something- its can't be coincidence that she's interacted with most of the major players in recent Ferelden history like Maric, Loghain, the Warden and now Hawke.

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
She might be able to foresee the danger and even the outline of something resembling a lost cause, but to call it foregone because Morrigan or Viconia say so is preposterous, and only serves, in the interactive genre of nuetralizing the player's involvement.  If the world (story) is set on a predetermined course, why bother doing anything to begin with?

Yeah- I mean in the case of the DR and Morrigan telling the player the relationship couldn't work out, that was in large part because she for whatever reason felt it necessary to leave after the battle which she did. In that case, she wasn't so much as seeing into the future into some destiny beyond her control, but rather she made that decision on her own.

But as for warning the Warden of going into Mirror World with her, if Morrigan truly knew that something absolutely bad could happen to the Warden if he followed her into the Eluvian, I doubt she would have let him come along.  In any event, despite Morrigan's warning, it shouldn;t be some predetermined outcome simply because Morrigan gave some slightly ominous, vague warning. Or at least if they're going to have something bad happen because of a choice the player makes, it should be dealt with by the player in such a way that they can determine the result, good or bad.

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
This is where ME2 stood head and shoulders above Dragon Age.  If you did the hard things and made the right choices your companions were spared.  F-up any of those important choices and you start losing companions.  Yes, the mission may succeed, but at what cost?

Agreed- I'd take it one step further though. Most of these sorts of "big" decisions in BioWare games simply come down to life or death of characters at the end of the games. I'd love it if that given character living or dying had big ramifications down the line, besides not seeing them in some dumb replaceable  fanservice cameo. So maybe character X died in the suicide mission in ME2- now that means you miss out on recruiting them in ME3- with no other place holder type character filling their role. But maybe in missing out on a character to recruit you gain some other thing not available to the person who saved character X?
You can easily extend that logic to the DR and OGB too- the problem with doing stuff like that is that when making a game, BioWare doesn't want to make content thats not available to everyone picking up the game. But more often than not, it just makes your previous choices feel cheap, like having Ash/Kaiden with the exact same dialogue on Horizon.

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
But then again, as BW attempts to "expand" their player base, this notion may give way to more linear "this is the way it's going to be/do as you're told" story telling.

Right- you do need a certain amount of Plot Hammer to keep things moving along but at the same time I think they need to keep it such that going from game to game your choices mean something otherwise there isn't a point in trying to provide that illusion in the first place with cliffhangers like the DR and all.

Nerevar-as wrote...
ME3 starts at high level?

From what I remember, in ME2 I think you only can go to level 30 or so? So presumably since EM1 you could go up to level 60, in ME3 you'll start your Shep where you left off in ME2. I thought I read that somewhere at least...

Nerevar-as wrote...
SO
repeating characters in DA, especially if some is back in the group, may
have this problem. With Morrigan, by the time she reappears, she should
be Awakeing level in power or there would be some jarring gameplay -
story segregation. There´s already a little in Origins. She´s probably
more powerful in setting than her starting skills. Same goes for the
Warden.

True- I'm just thinking that sort of how they refigured the combat skills and such in ME2 from ME1, they're seemingly doing the same in DA2, perhaps with an eye towards the future? Meaning that in DA2 it seems there are fewer spells and abilities but you've got the new tree structure and the ability to upgrade specific abilities in different ways (more AOE, more damage) as opposed to simply getting the next skill. This should conceivably help avoid the scenario you had in Awakening where you're dumped on with too many skills once you get high level.

So with the new combat skills, the Warden or MOrrigan would need to be reset anyway, but I'd imagine if Morrigan returns as a companion or NPC and is supposed to be powerful, I'd hope she actually was in game powerful and not starting at level one again. So that would likely mean having the PC start at a higher level from the beginning of the game. They could have a new PC start at a high level I guess, but it might make more sense for a returning PC like the Warden or HAwke to fill that role too.

===================

As for Morrigan's cooking/food preference- I'd say she is a fan of dark chocolate and something rich like lobster maybe. Throw in some complex red wine like a nice Pinot Noir- something with a bit of a bite to it....yeah.

And yeah, considering Morrigan didn't even have the OGB with her at the ELuvian I'm not so suire about her mothering skills...would she be harsh like Flemeth? Or at least try to be harsh like Flemeth on the surface for a while but likely break down into a big softy?- kind of how she treats Dog?

[Zjarcal]

Brockololly wrote...

And yeah, considering Morrigan didn't even have the OGB with her at the ELuvian I'm not so suire about her mothering skills...would she be harsh like Flemeth? Or at least try to be harsh like Flemeth on the surface for a while but likely break down into a big softy?- kind of how she treats Dog?

First of all... woah, new avatar for Brockololly! Took me a while to figure out it was you. 

I say Morrigan will indeed try to go the harsh route at first. After all, the OGB's purpose is to take a significant role in the struggle between her and Flemeth, so I think she'll try to imprint the "survival has meaning, power has meaning" mentality on him.

But, there's a chance that along the way she'd left her soft side out every once in a while, just like she did for Dog. Though I think she'll try to keep those moments rare.

[Brockololly]

Zjarcal wrote...
First of all... woah, new avatar for Brockololly! Took me a while to figure out it was you. 

Hahaha- yeah, I 'm going with my slightly less stubbly bearded Amell that I'm going through Origins with now.

Zjarcal wrote...
I say Morrigan will indeed try to go the harsh route at first. After all, the OGB's purpose is to take a significant role in the struggle between her and Flemeth, so I think she'll try to imprint the "survival has meaning, power has meaning" mentality on him.

But, there's a chance that along the way she'd left her soft side out every once in a while, just like she did for Dog. Though I think she'll try to keep those moments rare.

That sounds about right I think. It would be awesome if we were able to play as the Warden in Mirror World when the OGB was getting their training and everything to sort of be able to teach them things and offer advice. Then maybe how you treated the OGB in one game might affect whether the OGB was a force of good or evil or their personality in the next game when they were all grown up. Or maybe if you gut stabbed Morrigan, Morrigan teaches the OGB to not trust foolish humans and when the OGB comes into the world he has a harsher personality.

Most likely not happening as it would be way too complicated, but something like that would be neat if DA is spanning a lengthy time frame.

[Zjarcal]

Brockololly wrote...

That sounds about right I think. It would be awesome if we were able to play as the Warden in Mirror World when the OGB was getting their training and everything to sort of be able to teach them things and offer advice. Then maybe how you treated the OGB in one game might affect whether the OGB was a force of good or evil or their personality in the next game when they were all grown up. Or maybe if you gut stabbed Morrigan, Morrigan teaches the OGB to not trust foolish humans and when the OGB comes into the world he has a harsher personality.

Most likely not happening as it would be way too complicated, but something like that would be neat if DA is spanning a lengthy time frame.

That would be REALLY neat! I can't see Bioware going through the trouble however, given how the OGB itself isn't canon and all the different paths they'd have to take.

But as far as ideas go, it's awesome. It would be so nice to see a harsh OGB as the result of stabbing Morrigan. In fact, it would be sort of poetic justice if the OGB turns out to be a harsh (and perhaps evil) entity because the warden didn't trust Morrigan.

Oh the irony...

[Terra_Ex]

First of all, armored Morri (master book thief) returns:



Non-future DA related. Do we think that the Warden could get away with calling her Morri to her face, or would that earn her disapproval?

And Brock, avatar change... bah, stick with the classics.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...

Who says she wouldn't mention the Warden?

I see Morrigan appearing as a mysterious ally who is willing to aid the new PC against Flemeth. It's up to you to decide how they'll get along. I also expect her to metion the Warden when she shares her knowledge of Flemeth and the events in Origins and Witch Hunt.
Can you imagine Morrigan making a comment about the new PC and his LI by saying: "I used to think love was a weakness and not worth the trouble until I met a certain Warden in Ferelden who changed my outlook". She could then explain what she feels for him and what their relationship is like.
It can be quite satisfying is done properly. Ofc, I would preffer to play as the Warden again, but would mean finding a male and female voice actors who could voice humans, dwarves and elves (which is quite a challenge) and also finding a way to explain why the Warden is back to being a level 1 character (not neccesarily hard, but Bioware seem to want a logical explanation for everything).
[/quote]
Shiori, Morrigan would never say that. The only person she actually connects with (potentially) is the warden and that was an uphill battle. Just look at how she sidesteps companion questions regarding her relationship with the warden or how she flatly denies & subsequently shoots down Leliana's observation that she's in love with the warden. If you're looking for Morrigan to talk about MorrixWarden related stuff, ie: love with anybody but the warden in DA3, I think you'll be hard pressed.

It's only really confirmed in Morrigan>Warden dialogue, in a certain conversation with Wynne, and in WH... I believe the only time she refers to the warden as "my love" is WH...

Plus, the morri thread runs off speculation, far-out theories and the burning desire for MorrixWarden to be the focus of DA. Don't rock the boat

I also am not sure if Morri would be a party member in DA3, depends on how she factors into the plot.


[quote]ximena wrote...
Wow. Morrithread is back to regular programming it seems! Sadly, I have nothing to add in the current discussion. Brain needs to recover. XD

Anyway, as an interlude to the long posts, let me just ninja in the links to the new pages.

[/quote]
Indeed, the other character threads spam pix, here, we spam text. Sometimes we get lucky and you grace us with a new morri pic or new pages for DW. Keep the morrixwarden stuff coming

[quote]Bruddajakka wrote...
I'd like to have the Warden return. To the point I'm perfectly willing to except the fact they may just have to "canonize" his voice to do so.

[/quote]
Yeah, I could take a hit with that I suppose, I'd probably end up editing the game files to shut him up though if he sounds anything like male Shepard.



[quote]Brockololly wrote...
It's like you said though- the fear with the DR "Searching for Morrigan" ending was that Morrigan would turn up in the future with our Warden no where to be found, in limbo. While WH's ending is nice, if Morrigan simply turns up as a mysterious NPC in DA3 to a new hero, we're in the same boat again with the Warden- basically the Warden would be in limbo again not being able to follow or help Morrigan in conceivably the critical moments in her plan.
[/quote]
Precisely, if Laidlaw's description can be taken at face value then the "Morrigan game" will presumably focus on her in a big way. I cannot fathom the notion that bringing the warden back (all wardens) would not be a good idea, the way I viewed the WH end was it was setting up that kind of rationale for all wardens in the future. (Not sure if I mentioned it before, but judging by the art resource names, morrigan left 2 books behind for the warden.)

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
But certainly switching up the PCs would be something new and different and shake things up from BioWare's traditional story structures, which is one thing they seem to be playing with in DA2. Just an idea.
[/quote]


In one of my favourite RPGS (a sequel) the primary antagonist is a party member from the previous two games, the game features a POV system between three separate characters (each with their own respective groups) for the first half after which you lock down to a single character's POV and they become the lead, with the other two acting as support. It worked very well and to top it all, by fulfilling certain conditions you could unlock a special epilogue chapter which took you through major events in the game from the antagonist's POV. POV shifts are used frequently in literature to great effect and I see no reason why it couldn't be used to great effect in DA. There are a lot of good things to be gained to changing the narrative structure as they're doing with DA2, but that doesn't mean we "need" a new protagonist with each outing, you can do some amazing things with existing characters by breaking from the standard narrative approach.

With the info we have on DA2's narrative structure I can definitely say that I'd like to see BW continue to branch out away from the safer approach they've relied upon for a good while now. Things like Varric's exaggerations are definitely strides forward and something I'm looking forward to experiencing. By this, I don't want to see them repeating the exact same thing each title, but instead being willing to experiment with new narrative approaches and a multi-protagonist approach is perfectly viable as an area they could explore.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Right, but at the same time, I want them telling a damn good story. In my view, given how they've left things with Witch Hunt that would involve bringing the Warden back to fight alongside Morrigan to whatever end- PC or not. Simply give Morrigan some story critical role involving the Wardens at large and you give plenty of reason as to why any of the various sorts of Wardens would logically step back on center stage.

Sure starting with a new PC is the easiest route, but would it make for the most satisfying game where you're conceivably dealing with an old companion like Morrigan returning? Maybe, maybe not. I'd just hate to not have the Warden involved at all or to kill off or have Morrigan off doing something major without any plausible rationale as to why the Warden is out of the picture.
[/quote]

I can see the logic behind having a new PC, if for example you want to tell a specific story like Hawke's then fine, it's perfectly viable. Do we "need" to do this with each and every iteration of DA though, I think not. My concern is it's used a crutch and concession for fear of alienating newcomers, and it certainly is not necessary, as BioWare's own ME series proves. If previous heroes are conveniently brushed under carpet in each outing and their actions & consequences are only felt in future games by unrelated characters then you have a fundamental problem in your approach. Just as you can say the other endings and romance interests are just as viable as Morrigan, should those that pursued her arc be denied a decent amount of closure alongside her as that arc finally bears fruit? As you say Brock, the warden should be there for the climax.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Maybe my expectations are too high, but given how WH ended and the fact that my Warden was willing to search the ends of the Thedas to find Morrigan and took a leap of faith by stepping into the Eluvian with her, to just have him handwaved away in the climactic final act to Morrigan's story would be just as bad as any DR Plot Hammering.
[/quote]
I'd agree and argue than any expectations you hold have only been fueled by the setup and deliberate cliffhanger provided by Bioware, as I said before, it closes the Origins chapter nicely but it ties into DA2, Flemeth & Morrigan's return. These things affect all wardens, the mirror world ending - if they don't cater to that branch then all they've accomplished is riling up the fanbase come DA3. I'm hopeful for the future personally, but I'd definitely like to air out these concerns now.

[quote]PureMethodActor wrote...
I unfortunately don't have anything to add to the current big discussion, as I know less than the parties involved /images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png. I'm just going to continue reading and then make judgements for myself. Only thing I have to say is that I remain somewhat optimistic for now.
[/quote]
Hah, it's only me, Brock and shiori making the large posts atm, we need Swoo, Barbarossa & blademaster back on a regular basis if we're to get back into the swing of things. I'm sure our lengthy posts rationalising why the warden should come back in some form are most amusing for outsiders looking in



[quote]Nerevar-as wrote...
A good way to have the Warden would be the "Taste of Power" trope that will also be in DA2. Have some sections of the game with a powerful character and the rest with the current PC. About Morrigan, how powerful should she be when she reappears? I don´t want that JRPG trope of powerful characters becoming wimps the moment they join the party.
[/quote]
Haha, Have you read the Grand List of Console RPG Cliches? http://project-apoll.../text/rpg.html. There's some classics in there. But yes, that could work quite nicely.




[quote]Barbarossa2010 wrote...
If the world (story) is set on a predetermined course, why bother doing anything to begin with?

I love the artistic idea of interactive story telling where a dark OR good result might occur.  That is groundbreaking.  That is where the evolution of such games should be heading.  To chart a path toward a predetermined course X in an interactive story, eliminates any need for players to make any choice in the story.  Why bother with making any choice if the ending is just going to suck?
[/quote]
My point exactly. Completely agree.



[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yeah- I mean in the case of the DR and Morrigan telling the player the relationship couldn't work out, that was in large part because she for whatever reason felt it necessary to leave after the battle which she did. In that case, she wasn't so much as seeing into the future into some destiny beyond her control, but rather she made that decision on her own.

[/quote]
The foreshadowing of this occured well before then though, during one of the romance dialogs iirc. As you mentioned earlier, the parallels with Viconia are uncanny.



[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Or maybe if you gut stabbed Morrigan, Morrigan teaches the OGB to not trust foolish humans and when the OGB comes into the world he has a harsher personality.
[/quote]
What should happen here is the BG1 "demon child" (with ridiculous stats naturally) you referenced a few pages back should stalk the player through DA3, a just reward for their lack of faith in Morri



As for OGB & Morri's mothering approach, I agree with Zjarcal.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 20 septembre 2010 - 02:46 .

[MKDAWUSS]

Terra_Ex wrote...


It's only really confirmed in Morrigan>Warden dialogue, in a certain conversation with Wynne, and in WH... I believe the only time she refers to the warden as "my love" is WH...

Also said during the DR and at the Denerim gates.

Too late in the day (11:45 pm ET) for me to dig into and respond to the rest.

[Brockololly]

Some Sacred Ashes Morrigan:


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Non-future DA related. Do we think that the Warden could get away with calling her Morri to her face, or would that earn her disapproval?[/quote]
She'd probably slap him then kiss him, then give the Warden some equally goofy nickname intended to grate on his nerves.

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
And Brock, avatar change... bah, stick with the classics.[/quote]
Ha- I keep changing this Amell's face trying to make him different than all my other Wardens- its hard to see in the portrait, but he's in Lothering now and while he started clean shaven, he's gradually growing in a full stubble beard like all of my other PCs. Probably best to stick with the scruffy Cousland Wardens I suppose.

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
It's only really confirmed in Morrigan>Warden dialogue, in a certain conversation with Wynne, and in WH... I believe the only time she refers to the warden as "my love" is WH...[/quote]
I think Morrigan calls the Warden "my love" during trhe goodbyes at the Gates of Denerim too- at least in one of the conversations  I think. But I agree- having Morrigan spill her guts or even acknowledge her love with the Warden would just not seem like Morrigan to me. She barely opens up to the Warden romancing her, let alone some new Hero Guy.


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
I also am not sure if Morri would be a party member in DA3, depends on how she factors into the plot.[/quote]
Thats true- it would be kind of disappointing if her and the OGB weren't party members though. That dynamic could certainly show a different side to Morrigan.

I guess a huge determining factor in how DA3 potentially plays out with Morrigan is when in the timeline it takes place. Does it pick up right as DA2 ends or even right as she enters the Eluvian, then skip ahead framed narrative style? Or does it start 10 years or so after the events of DA2, withthe Old God Baby all grown up and Morrigan now about 45-50 years old? Meh- I hope they don't skip ahead so quickly like that- doing so certainly wouldn't help out the case for the Warden returning either, with the Taint and all.

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Precisely, if Laidlaw's description can be taken at face value then the "Morrigan game" will presumably focus on her in a big way. I cannot fathom the notion that bringing the warden back (all wardens) would not be a good idea, the way I viewed the WH end was it was setting up that kind of rationale for all wardens in the future. (Not sure if I mentioned it before, but judging by the art resource names, morrigan left 2 books behind for the warden.)[/quote]
I thought the same too- even the very premise of Witch Hunt insinuates that the Warden has an interest in Morrigan and that their plots are somehow interconnected by varying degrees.

The fact that Gaider went on to say how Witch Hunt wasn't just the Morrigan romance DLC but that her story was relevent to all Wardens could be used as an argument for the Warden returning whenever Morrigan comes back into the picture, really:
[quote] David Gaider wrote...
My original point was that the other romances at least got to talk to their romances after the final battle.  You got some wrap-up. Maybe you want more, sure... more more more. Why not? But Morrigan fans didn't get anything.

And, incidentally, this isn't the "Morrigan romance DLC" you're perhaps picturing. Morrigan's mystery  affects all the Wardens in a way-- some certainly more personally  pertinent than others. Regardless, this is a way to wrap things up.[/quote]

What about the books? What were the art resource names? I always find that odd- they sparkle like you should be able to use them, like there was supposed to be more maybe. Or its just them not disabling that effect in the cutscene....


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
My concern is it's used a crutch and concession for fear of alienating newcomers, and it certainly is not necessary, as BioWare's own ME series proves. If previous heroes are conveniently brushed under carpet in each outing and their actions & consequences are only felt in future games by unrelated characters then you have a fundamental problem in your approach.[/quote]
Especially with the whole drive for "accessability" and all in games now, it is worrisome that BIoWare may simply continue on with Morrigan's story with some new unrelated PC simply for the notion that it would be better for people that didn't even play the first couple games. Like you said, big consequences for actions taken by a given character should be dealt with by that same character directly- not some other random Hero. Now maybe there are further ripples from the actions of a given hero down the road, but the BIG consequences should be dealt with by the Hero that caused them. So in the case of Morrigan, if you did the DR and are dealing with OGB or if you shivved Morrigan, that exact Warden should be the one dealing with her and all the ramifications of those actions down the road.

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
I'd agree and argue than any expectations you hold have only been fueled by the setup and deliberate cliffhanger provided by Bioware, as I said before, it closes the Origins chapter nicely but it ties into DA2, Flemeth & Morrigan's return. These things affect all wardens, the mirror world ending - if they don't cater to that branch then all they've accomplished is riling up the fanbase come DA3. I'm hopeful for the future personally, but I'd definitely like to air out these concerns now.[/quote]
Right- the ending for Witch Hunt, particularly for the Warden that romanced Morrigan is fantastic and provides a perfect ending, whereby if we never saw the Warden or Morrigan again, I'd be fine with that. But it seems apparent that Morrigan still has a large role to play in Thedas- so bringing her back but not the Warden simply leaves us right where we were before Witch Hunt again.

But I'd like to think that whatever may come with Morrigan in the future, the Wardens play a role in it somehow, someway. They certainly have laid the groundwork for it, it would seem.

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Hah, it's only me, Brock and shiori making the large posts atm, we need Swoo, Barbarossa & blademaster back on a regular basis if we're to get back into the swing of things. I'm sure our lengthy posts rationalising why the warden should come back in some form are most amusing for outsiders looking in [/quote]
It'll no doubt be quiet I imagine at least until we start hearing some plot details about DA2 and Flemeth or the collapse of the Chantry and the possible "change" in DA2- that way we'll have some more solid Morrigan speculation to go off of. And no doubt DA2 will at least have references to Morrigan in it.

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
The foreshadowing of this occured well before then though, during one of the romance dialogs iirc. As you mentioned earlier, the parallels with Viconia are uncanny.[/quote]
Yeah, I guess the big difference with Morrigan and Viconia is how Viconia often spelled it out about wanting to settle down and was a bit more open about her emotions and desires. Whereas Morrigan keeps her feelings bottled up and her plans hidden. But in terms of both Morrigan and Viconia warning the player of how things will turn up and having that become true- that is the case. I just hope thats not justification of screwing over the Wardens that went through the mirror with Morrigan: "Oh, Morrigan warned you it would be best if you stayed behind!" Yeah, but she also said we'd never see her again or that she'd never return to Ferelden- those didn't come true....

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
What should happen here is the BG1 "demon child" (with ridiculous stats naturally) you referenced a few pages back should stalk the player through DA3, a just reward for their lack of faith in Morri [/quote]
That would be awesome- have it chase you through the levels relentlessly like the Nemesis in Resident Evil 3- ha!

Modifié par Brockololly, 20 septembre 2010 - 04:01 .

[ximena]

Non-future DA related. Do we think that the Warden could get away with calling her Morri to her face, or would that earn her disapproval?


[/quote]


I think she'd be more agreeable if you call her Witch. XD I see her saying, "What is with that foolish nickname? Am I your pet now?"

Then she'd burn you if you start calling her Mo'.



As for the Warden reappearing, DA3 would be much more satisfying for me if I could replay the good ol' Warden again. Dealing with Morrigan with a new PC is okay, but dealing with her with The Warden as the PC is much more emotionally engaging. <3

[Brockololly]

ximena wrote...
I think she'd be more agreeable if you call her Witch. XD I see her saying, "What is with that foolish nickname? Am I your pet now?"

Then she'd burn you if you start calling her Mo'.

Hahaha- I imagine Morrigan would kindly zap the Warden or give him a mini-Cone of Cold blast for using stupid, sentimental pet nicknames like Morri or Mo'.
"You'll have to forgive me if I do not leap at your command like a trained warhound!"

Haha- Mo'.....thats a good one:P

Modifié par Brockololly, 20 septembre 2010 - 04:06 .

[Terra_Ex]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...

It's only really confirmed in Morrigan>Warden dialogue, in a certain conversation with Wynne, and in WH... I believe the only time she refers to the warden as "my love" is WH...

Also said during the DR and at the Denerim gates.

Too late in the day (11:45 pm ET) for me to dig into and respond to the rest.

Bah, that's what I get for posting so late at night, my morri knowledge is failing me... Point being, she uses it sparingly and wouldn't broach the topic with someone she didn't trust implicitly.

Brock, you read my mind, Nemesis was exactly the kind of tenacious b***ard I was thinking of for that example I'll formulate a suitably epic response to your post sometime tomorrow... when I get round to reading it.

ximena wrote...
Then she'd burn you if you start calling her Mo'.

Haha, I doubt think even the romancing warden would risk that [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie] I can see the approval meter taking a hit even now.

[ximena]

Terra_Ex wrote...

ximena wrote...
Then she'd burn you if you start calling her Mo'.

Haha, I doubt think even the romancing warden would risk that [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie] I can see the approval meter taking a hit even now.

If  the romancing Warden knows what's good for him, he wouldn't even there.

Warden: Oh hey Mo'!

Morrigan: *icy glare*

Warden: -rrigan. I meant Morrigan. *sweats profusely*

[Brockololly]

PureMethodActor wrote...

If the Warden returned, though, I would accept voice acting as long as there was a different voice for each race/gender combination. Elves, Dwarves, and Humans sound different, so one voice for male and one for female would annoy me. I talked about this, and tried to ask an open-ended question about voice-actors for Warden types in my thread hoping for the Warden's return, but so far no one has answered it with possible voice actors.

Yeah, considering that in DA2 they're apparently giving the Dalish Welsh accents thats an even further wrinkle added to voicing the Warden should he/she return. If voicing the Warden is what it would take to bring him back as the PC, that would be ok, if less than ideal-  a voiced PC is great for things like having the PC give speeches, but I find it dreadful in romances. In ME or ME2, even going beyond the writing, the delivery of the romantic lines is more often than not cringe inducingly awkward and corny. At least in DAO you can imagine all that in your head. So it would be weird in that regard to hear the Warden interacting with somebody like Morrigan, especially romantically.

If they were to do it though, unless the Warden's role was really small or they had a massive budget, I can't imagine them getting a different voice actor for a human, dalish, city elf and dwarf, then female versions, then having them do various lines in the different sarcastic, diplomatic and aggressive tones- that would be insane. If they did it at all, I'd imagine them picking one voice and handwaving away the explanation somehow.

I suppose if we had to have someone voice the male Warden who is human, maybe somebody like Clive Owen or Ralph Fiennes? I dunno...

Terra_Ex wrote...
Point being, she uses it sparingly and wouldn't broach the topic with someone she didn't trust implicitly.

Right on- Mo'.......errr....Morrigan, doesn't put her emotions on display for hardly anyone-even the Warden.


And off to bed!

Modifié par Brockololly, 20 septembre 2010 - 04:45 .

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
I see Morrigan appearing as a mysterious ally who is willing to aid the  new PC against Flemeth. It's up to you to decide how they'll get along. I also expect her to metion the Warden when she shares her knowledge of  Flemeth and the events in Origins and Witch Hunt.

But thats my issue- knowing what we know about Morrigan, it would ring false to me to have her show up and gush about her feelings for the Warden to some random Hero Dude when it takes the better course of a game to have her even crack a little bit in Origins. Or conversely to have her reveal insight into her plans to some random Hero Dude would feel contrived given that she won't even say anything to a  Warden she loves.

Did I say she would reveal her plans to him/her? She wouldn't. All she would do is explain her relationship with Flemeth and the events of Origins and Witch Hunt, which would be influenced by our decisions there, eg. Morrigan loves the Warden or is his/her friend, has the OGB/normal child with him, etc.
In short she'd explain her history with Flemeth and maybe say why she wants to stop her. The player is the one who shares this with Morrigan and is forced to work with her towards a common goal. That doesn't mean he/she is aware of all her plans, just as the Warden wasn't aware of the DR when he recruited Morri.
The bits about her relationship with the Warden could be revealed by Morrigan's comments about the players own realtionship with his/her LI.

Brockololly wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
Ofc, I would preffer to play  as the Warden again, but would mean finding a male and female voice  actors who could voice humans, dwarves and elves (which is quite a  challenge) and also finding a way to explain why the Warden is back to  being a level 1 character (not neccesarily hard, but Bioware seem to  want a logical explanation for everything).

Thats assuming they go with player VO, which sadly is probably what they'll stick with from here on out. But you never know. As for resetting the Warden, well given all the other changes they've made to combat they wouldn't even need to necessarily start you out at level 1- maybe they arbitrarily set you to level 15 or 20 or wherever Hawke ends up in DA2. That sort of stuff ideally shouldn't stop them from telling the story they want to tell.

I have no doubt that every protagonist from here on is going to be fully voiced. Once you go down that route you cannot go back.
As for being set to level 15-20, that wouldn't be a problem for thse who played Origins or DA2, but you cannot give that o somebody who's never played Dragon Age before. They need to learn teh basics and that means starting out from scratch.
Starting at high level only works in expansions. I have no doubt there are ways to make Warden a level 1 character again and have it make sense in the game itself, but right now I'm not certain that this is what Gaider and co. are willing to do. Maybe I'm wrong, but only time will tell.

Brockololly wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
The problem here is that you're looking at it purely from a perspective of  someone who romanced Morrigan and followed her through the mirror. What  about those who were her friend and couldn't follow? What if the Warden  choose not to go with her? What if he/she hated her and choose to stab  her?

But thats the point really- if WH is tracking those flags, to follow up on those actions with some random Hero Dude would suck the life out of the consequences, IMO. But like you mention, they seem to be laying down hints that the Warden's role with Morrigan is not done and again, its about consequences for your actions.  If my misanthropic Orlesian ripped open Morrigan's belly with his murder knife, when Morrigan comes back, I want her interacting with the Orlesian Warden- it would make for the most emotionally engaging scene, IMO.

That it would, but it would also require the writers to come up with a reason for the Orlesian being in whatever country DA3 will take place, especially if the player never choose to leave Ferelden in Origins.
Like i said, having a new Blight happen or having Flemeth involved with the Darkspawn in some way (as WH hinted) would certainly give the Grey Wardens a reason to go after her and for the Origins Warden/Orlesian Warden to make an appearance. After all, who are you going to send after an ancient witch if not your most powerful member?

Brockololly wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
And no, I don't think they'll let us switch the protagonist halfway through the game. Whatever happens, it's likely we'll be playing with the same  character in DA3 from start to finish.

But certainly switching up the PCs would be something new and different and shake things up from BioWare's traditional story structures, which is one thing they seem to be playing with in DA2. Just an idea.

But how would that work when it comes to npcs, companions and LI's?

You'd spend the first half of the game building relationships with your new pc, only to sweep ot all away when the Warden takes the stage.

I guess they could try and have you play with both the new pc and the Warden, by letting you switch between them at certain points in the story. Similar things have been tried before with various degree of success.
But it really depends on:

1) How much are the devs willing to experiment
2) How big a drain it would be on their resources and time

Looking at it like that I believe sticking with 1 protagonist for the whole game is both easier and cheaper.

Brockololly wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
Whatever Bioware decides  to do, it needs to work for everyone: people who played Origins, those  who came aboard with Hawke in DA2 and those who never played a DA title  before Dragon Age 3. A new protagonist who respects the decisions and relationships from previous games is the easiest solution at this  point. As long as Morrigan acknowledges her relationship with the Warden and goes back to him after DA3 is done (provided ofc she is alive and  free to do so) then I have no problem with it. I'd love nothing more  than to play again as the Warden and have Morrigan in my group, but I  also need to face reality and realize that Bioware isn't making DA3  purely for people like myself. They need to think of everyone or the game will never sell properly.

Right, but at the same time, I want them telling a damn good story. In my view, given how they've left things with Witch Hunt that would involve bringing the Warden back to fight alongside Morrigan to whatever end- PC or not. Simply give Morrigan some story critical role involving the Wardens at large and you give plenty of reason as to why any of the various sorts of Wardens would logically step back on center stage.

Sure starting with a new PC is the easiest route, but would it make for the most satisfying game where you're conceivably dealing with an old companion like Morrigan returning? Maybe, maybe not. I'd just hate to not have the Warden involved at all or to kill off or have Morrigan off doing something major without any plausible rationale as to why the Warden is out of the picture.

Maybe my expectations are too high, but given how WH ended and the fact that my Warden was willing to search the ends of the Thedas to find Morrigan and took a leap of faith by stepping into the Eluvian with her, to just have him handwaved away in the climactic final act to Morrigan's story would be just as bad as any DR Plot Hammering.

But hopefully DA2 will give us some more concrete speculation fuel!

Oh, I agree that not having the Warden deal with Flemeth in DA3 would be disappointing, especialy if he had a close relationship with Morrigan.
I'm hoping all these hints that David is throwing aroud mean we'll get to play as the Warden again.

But right now I can't be certain about that and need to take all scenarios into account.

[Master Shiori]

On a side note:

Just got a new issue of my local gaming magazine which had a big 5 page preview of Dragon Age 2 (also a 5 page preview of Witcher 2).

In it was a short refference to Witch Hunt where it was confirmed that Morrigan is the most popular character from Origins.

Just something to give us Morri fans a reason to smile.


Other points:

1) Hawke's family will be an important part of DA2 story.

2) Flemeth's package to the Dalish is supposed to set off a chain of events that culminate in Chantry's downfall.

3) Qunari invasion will happen somewhere midgame and is the event that has Hawke becoming the champion of Kirkwall.

4) Tactical camera view in combat on PC is still there, but you cannot zoom out as far as you could in Origins.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 20 septembre 2010 - 10:43 .

[Brockololly]

Another avatar change! Angry Orlesian dog time! This guy totally gutted Morrigan with the murder knife:pinched:

[quote]PureMethodActor wrote...
the Dalish were given Welsh accents for DA2? Wow so thats odd... does that mean ALL elves will sound like that?
[/quote]
Here is the thread where Gaider mentions only Dalish getting Welsh accents:
[quote]David Gaider wrote...

Still English accents for the most part, though we do still use American accents (as in the midwest Amercian accent) for the City Elves and Dwarves and French accents for  the Orlesians. We're using a different accent for the Dalish now (why? because we want to) but otherwise nothing drastic.[/quote]
[quote]David Gaider wrote...

[quote]Shadow_broker wrote...
Can you specify what accent the dalish now use?
[/quote]
Welsh, primarily.[/quote]

[quote]PureMethodActor wrote...
This is one of my favorite non-Ximena portrayals of Morrigan:
http://clc1997.devia...llery/#/d2ws2ze
[/quote]
Haven't seen that one before!


[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
Did I say she would reveal her plans to him/her? She wouldn't. All she would do is explain her relationship  with Flemeth and the events of Origins and Witch Hunt, which would be  influenced by our decisions there, eg. Morrigan loves the Warden or is  his/her friend, has the OGB/normal child with him, etc.[/quote]
Just playing Devil's advocate here, but the extent to how much Morrigan would reveal about herself to any new PC is up in the air I think. Obviously Morrigan would only dispense the information she felt necessary to help the PC or that the PC needed and nothing more. So maybe she'd shed some light about Flemeth, but  would she tell about the God Baby and all that too? I'm not so sure.

As far as her telling anyone about her and the Warden, I can't think of any scenarios where that would play out realistically without having to say Morrigan's character has changed drastically since we last saw her. I mean in Origins, other party members like Wynne or Leliana  or Alistair ask about the Warden and Morrigan and almost every single  time she'll deflect the question or say its not love but simply passion  shared between equals or something. But even that she only shares  because its likely the other party members know about it, what with  everyone living in camp and all.

It could probably be done well,  but it would seem like a stretch to have Morrigan talk about the  relationship with the Warden with anyone else.


[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
I have no doubt that every protagonist from here on is going to be fully voiced. Once you go down that route you cannot go back.[/quote]
You're probably right, but I'd like to think that BioWare wouldn't limit themselves like that. But it seems group think has sunken in at BioWare with regards to voiced PC 's being super awesome when there are plenty of good games out there without voiced PCs that are awesome for that very reason. Noto veer off into a rant, but voicing the PC is just a tremendous waste of resources IMO. I'd much rather they try other approaches to fix any shortcomings of the silent PC not being emotive enough- maybe switch to a first person view in dialogue so you don't see the PC's blank face if thats perceived to be a problem. Or maybe use a voice selectively like with the combat shout outs when its necessary like speeches. All I know is that most likely I won't be able to enjoy DA2 as deeply as Origins because of the player VO.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
As for being set to level 15-20, that wouldn't be a problem for thse who  played Origins or DA2, but you cannot give that o somebody who's never  played Dragon Age before. They need to learn teh basics and that means  starting out from scratch.
Starting at high level only works in expansions. I have no doubt there are ways to make Warden a level 1  character again and have it make sense in the game itself, but right now I'm not certain that this is what Gaider and co. are willing to do. Maybe I'm wrong, but only time will tell.[/quote]
I don't know about that necessarily. If I'm not mistaken, isn't ME3 going to start you off at whatever level your Shep ended in ME2? I thought that was partly why they reset Shep in ME2. I know in BG1 you only went up to level 9 or so...didn't you start about there in BG2?

I'm just thinking though, it gets old starting at level 1 with a new PC every single game. It seems that the way they're restructuring the skill/spell tree, it will possibly allow for more balanced upper level combat. And story wise if DA3 is when stuff is hitting the fan and Thedas is engulfed in war with the Chantry crumbling, Flemeth doing who knows what and Morrigan and Old God Baby stepping back on stage, I'd like to be a higher level guy from the onset and not have to kill rats and poison spiders before trudging into the big action.
Hell, even in DA2 in the exaggerated portions you're essentially starting the game out as an upper level god like character, so there is some precedence.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
That it would, but it would also require the  writers to come up with a reason for the Orlesian being in whatever country DA3 will take place, especially if the player never choose to  leave Ferelden in Origins.[/quote]
Well, they just pulled that very thing off in Witch Hunt- simply have the First Warden order you to search for Morrigan or Flemeth to investigate theri role in the Blight or whatever "change" they're part of. Wardens have the freedom to go anywhere, so its not that much of a stretch story wise. Or even have the Warden off doing something unrelated to Morrigan when it becomes apparent that Morrigan plays an important role.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote... After all, who are you going to send after an ancient witch if not your most powerful
member?[/quote]
Exactly- and with Witch Hunt's ending for all Wardens, they're all connected and have some prior experience of past history with Morrigan now, even the Orlesian.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
I  guess they could try and have you play with both the new pc and the  Warden, by letting you switch between them at certain points in the  story. Similar things have been tried before with various degree of  success. But it really depends on:

1) How much are the devs willing to experiment
2) How big a drain it would be on their resources and time

Looking at it like that I believe sticking with 1 protagonist for the whole game is both easier and cheaper.[/quote]
It probably would be cheaper to just stick with one PC, but as far as resources go, whats the point of the exaggerated narrative sections in DA2? Thats pretty much fluff. So maybe switching between a new PC and an established one like the Warden wouldn't be too much of a stretch if BioWare is looking to continually innovate.

I kind of doubt they'd do it, but DA3 hasn't been dream crushed yet like DA2 has, so we can come up with wonderfully myopic ideal versions of the game only to be massively disappointed all over again once details come out in a couple years:wizard:

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
Oh, I agree that not having the Warden deal with Flemeth in DA3 would be  disappointing, especialy if he had a close relationship with Morrigan. I'm hoping all these hints that David is throwing aroud mean we'll get to play as the Warden again.

But right now I can't be certain about that and need to take all scenarios into account. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]
[/quote]

True enough. I'm guessing that a large amount of how DA3 shakes out will depend on how DA2 is received and how DA2's story goes. Time will tell...
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...

On a side note:

Just got a  new issue of my local gaming magazine which had a big 5 page preview of  Dragon Age 2 (also a 5 page preview of Witcher 2).

In it was a short refference to Witch Hunt where it was confirmed that Morrigan is the most popular character from Origins. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

Just something to give us Morri fans a reason to smile. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]


Other points:

1) Hawke's family will be an important part of DA2 story.

2) Flemeth's package to the Dalish is supposed to set off a chain of events that culminate in Chantry's downfall.

3) Qunari invasion will happen somewhere midgame and is the event that has Hawke becoming the champion of Kirkwall.

4) Tactical camera view in combat on PC is still there, but you cannot zoom out as far as you could in Origins.[/quote]

Good stuff Shiori! Was it a quote from BioWare directly about Morrigan being the most popular?

I 'm just hoping that BioWare realizes part of the reason for Morrigan's popularity is because of her role and interaction with the Warden. She is an awesome character on her own, but its in her relationship with the Warden and with the DR, the OGB and all of those mysteries that makes her truly popular, I think.

So I just hope BioWare doesn't simply bring back Morrigan with no sign of the Warden in DA3 and go " Hey guys Morrigan is back! Isn't that great? Oh, the Warden? Ummm... yeah...not sure what happened to that guy..."

Kind of figured the Qunari invaded and thats how Hawke gets his title....But while thats kind of interesting, the main reason I'll be playing DA2 is for Flemeth's role and her story and how that could tie in with Morrigan. So long as they're going to string that plot along, thats my primary interest in DA.

Now what could be in the package that gets sent to the Dalish which precipitates the Chantry's downfall? Why exactly would Flemeth want to bring down the Chantry?

Modifié par Brockololly, 20 septembre 2010 - 03:17 .

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

My biggest confusion with Flemeth is how she is dealing with Morrigan. Does she underestimate Morrigan, or does she want Morrigan to do what she is doing? Maybe Morrigan is actually out witting her mother and successfully hiding/running from her?

I don't get why she wants to bring down the Chantry either. Yes I know she is something magical that is taboo, but if the Warden couldn't kill her for good why should she fear the Chantry? The Chantry hasn't successfully done squat against her since it's existence why all the sudden is she bent on destroying it?

Modifié par Jacks Smirking Revenge, 20 septembre 2010 - 04:00 .

[Gennojo Ryuga]

Maybe it's not so much out of fear of the chantry but more out of spite/revenge. Maybe the chantry wronged Flemeth a long time ago and as a result she is hell bent on getting payback.

She could also be disgusted with what the chantry represents, but I don't see her as a "FOR THE MAGES" type of person.

Flemeth is driven by her own goals, whether revenge, more power or simply because she can.

Modifié par Gennojo Ryuga, 20 septembre 2010 - 04:48 .

[Shade of Wolf]

PureMethodActor wrote...

As for the wish for Wardens to return with Morrigan (for those who romanced her, which is pretty much at least 98% of us)...

Yeah, nothing else to say other than that this is what I want, and I feel that this is what will make the series most rewarding for us. I couldn't find it now, but someone's quote (please let me know who it is that said the following so I can give them credit for the idea) about the Warden seen in the Fade or another realm helping Morrigan train the OGB is a nifty idea.

If the Warden returned, though, I would accept voice acting as long as there was a different voice for each race/gender combination. Elves, Dwarves, and Humans sound different, so one voice for male and one for female would annoy me. I talked about this, and tried to ask an open-ended question about voice-actors for Warden types in my thread hoping for the Warden's return, but so far no one has answered it with possible voice actors.

Anyway, I'm learning a lot about Bioware lore by reading this thread, and it is interesting seeing some of the comparisons between Morrigan and other past Bioware characters, and similarities as far as romance endings go worries me, as well.

No! No more voice acting!!! The VA in ME2 drove me crazy. It was annoying when  you had something awesome to say like ''You ****'' and then it got toned down. I also disliked the way nothing written there was ever the same in action, for example my Paragon choes one small renegade response and I ended up punching a woman?