16183 réponses à ce sujet

[grillz]

As mush as I like Morrigan's character as a LI, I wasn't a big fan of WH and probably only tumble with her in future playthroughs. Im glad to know Flemeth will be a big part of the future and im sure there will be a mention of the ogb or the warden.



and yes I to hope it is handled well.

[Morrigans God son]

ejoslin wrote...

Don't hate on me for saying this... But the Warden's part in the future of the series by its nature has to be very small. Already, the OGB has been made somewhat trivial (WH says he's just a herald for things to come, which to me means he is not an integral part of it). Anyway, the reason I say this is if it's more than a footnote, it would be difficult to account for all the female wardens, males who didn't romance Morrigan, males who ended up with Leliana, and wardens who did the ultimate sacrifice. You cannot make TWO major plots in a game I wouldn't think -- one for living wardens who walked through the mirror, and one for everyone else.

I'm just hoping it's handled well. That is what I have lost my faith in -- given what I've seen, a lot of the dangling plot threads have not been handled that well. I'm hoping that Morrigan is important enough, though, that at least that will be treated with more respect than some of the others.

The only thing about the other LI is that they can be killed. Morrigan is the only one that can't be killed off, except in Witch Hunt. ( She clearly doesn't die though, I think that much is obvious. )
Yes, the godbaby is a herald for what is to come, and I understand they can't make a big role out of it, because some players refused the DR. Still it was the biggest choice in Origins, and I think it should get a lengthy tale at least. I hope the other guys and gals who romanced other characters get some references too in DA2. It just can't think it could be as big as what Morrigan's is, because of Flemeth, possible godbaby, and the fact that she can't be killed off. Who knows though, I'm sure Alistair mancers will get a few treats as well.

BioWare know Morrigan is a big character. There wise keeping her tale running, even if we don't actually get to see her in DA2. Maybe Morrigan vs Flemeth showdown in DA3? Morrigan is the one to stop this big change? I don't know, but hell those witches are exciting lol.

[TheBlackBaron]

Well, we know Alistair will have a cameo in DA2 - Steve Valentine mentioned on his twitter account he had done some VO for it.



And I get that some people didn't do the DR, and that they don't want their choice to be invalidated...but that works both ways. Some of us did do the DR, and are very much interested in seeing how that works out in a way that befits the monumental nature of the decision. In the end, BioWare is either going to have to leave that eternally hanging, and thus ****** off a large number of people, or suck it up and make something canon for the sake of the storyline.

[ejoslin]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Well, we know Alistair will have a cameo in DA2 - Steve Valentine mentioned on his twitter account he had done some VO for it.

And I get that some people didn't do the DR, and that they don't want their choice to be invalidated...but that works both ways. Some of us did do the DR, and are very much interested in seeing how that works out in a way that befits the monumental nature of the decision. In the end, BioWare is either going to have to leave that eternally hanging, and thus ****** off a large number of people, or suck it up and make something canon for the sake of the storyline.

I wasn't meaning to be argumentative.  Many female wardens also do the dark ritual as well (either have Loghain or Alistair perform it).  And I do know that Alistair, Leliana, and Zevran can all be killed off.  Morrigan's DR can be rejected as well.  Which is why it probably cannot be a major plot point.

Again, my main hope is that it's done well.  Truthfully, I'm just discouraged at the way things have been handled so far.

[Brockololly]

Morrigans God son wrote...
I don't know....jumping locations, time, great characters and main PC would get real boring real quick. I'll also be less attached to the characters now.

Bingo- thats my entire problem with the premise that DA is about a series of epic stories. I play BIoWare games fro the characters- its the damn characters through which you give a damnd about the story, plot and world. So to just have each game feature a revolving door of PCs and companions is boring. But its especially irksome when you leave plots on cliffhangers...

Morrigans God son wrote...
Edit: I'm hoping for an ending were Flemeth kills Hawke.

Seriously, Hawke is like the embodiment of everything I don't like about DA2 and the direction BIoWare is going. I'll gladly let Hawke make the ultimate sacrifice or whatever it takes to wipe the slate clean to let the Warden return.

Morrigans God son wrote...
Plus will Morrigan & the warden stay in the mirror for ten years? why is Morrigan hiding in the mirror to begin with?

Well, Witch Hunt takes place 2 years post Origins. So if DA2 takes place out 10 years from Lothering, then that would mean Morrigan was only in the mirror world for 8 years.

Morrigans God son wrote...
Me personally I'd like some questions answered. Is it just me or is BioWare keeping us in the dark to much?

Absolutely- they want to keep things mysterious, but its quickly becoming annoying and LOST like with all the questions piling up with no answers in sight.

Morrigans God son wrote...
What if in DA2, Morrigan suddenly jumps out the mirror and shouts "Hey Hawke!" and the warden in nowhere to be seen...

I'd mail that turd of a game back to BioWare

ejoslin wrote...
Don't hate on me for saying this... But  the Warden's part in the future of the series by its nature has to be  very small.

I mean, it depends in large part on Morrigan now I think. Given what she tells the Orlesian, it seems as if whatever the change is thats coming or what Flemeth has planned, its something which the Wardens specifically need to be on the watch for.

ejoslin wrote...
...difficult to account for all the female  wardens, males who didn't romance Morrigan, males who ended up with
Leliana, and wardens who did the ultimate sacrifice. You cannot make  TWO major plots in a game I wouldn't think -- one for living wardens who walked through the mirror, and one for everyone else.

Thats true, but my *hope* would be to simply alter the beginning of any such game like with the Origin stories, have different beginnings based on how the game ended before.  Then just bring everything to some common point.

Dammit, ejoslin, that post made me sad:crying: *shakes fist at Hawke as embodiment of everything wrong with DA and BioWare*

Modifié par Brockololly, 09 octobre 2010 - 05:13 .

[TheBlackBaron]

ejoslin wrote...
I wasn't meaning to be argumentative.  Many female wardens also do the dark ritual as well (either have Loghain or Alistair perform it).  And I do know that Alistair, Leliana, and Zevran can all be killed off.  Morrigan's DR can be rejected as well.  Which is why it probably cannot be a major plot point.

Again, my main hope is that it's done well.  Truthfully, I'm just discouraged at the way things have been handled so far.

Oh, that wasn't directed at you, ejoslin. Apologies if it seemed that way. 

I was more just venting. The DA2 boards get me in an acerbic mood.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 09 octobre 2010 - 05:18 .

[ejoslin]

Brockololly wrote...

Thats true, but my *hope* would be to simply alter the beginning of any such game like with the Origin stories, have different beginnings based on how the game ended before.  Then just bring everything to some common point.

Dammit, ejoslin, that post made me sad:crying: *shakes fist at Hawke as embodiment of everything wrong with DA and BioWare*

That would be amazing, if they were to do that, if they were to do it well.  

I should quit naysaying everywhere.  I'm all doom and gloom these days  My apologies!

[grillz]

Personally it's like (spoilers for AC2)



You finally get to Morrigan and nothing is answered, like in AC2 the fist fight with Borgia then the "WTF"



I think it's common these days for dev's to leave players in the dark.

[Morrigans God son]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Well, we know Alistair will have a cameo in DA2 - Steve Valentine mentioned on his twitter account he had done some VO for it.

And I get that some people didn't do the DR, and that they don't want their choice to be invalidated...but that works both ways. Some of us did do the DR, and are very much interested in seeing how that works out in a way that befits the monumental nature of the decision. In the end, BioWare is either going to have to leave that eternally hanging, and thus ****** off a large number of people, or suck it up and make something canon for the sake of the storyline.

Wow I didn't know that Alistair would make a cameo, great news!
Anyways what is the point of the DR if they didn't follow it up, in some way or another. BioWare said it was the biggest choice as of yet, and for them to do nothing with it, would suck. It just means that choices in DA don't mean anything really.

But I'm sure BioWare can make their way round these dilemmas, like the US. Hopefully it's just well done though.

[Morrigans God son]

grillz wrote...

Personally it's like (spoilers for AC2)

You finally get to Morrigan and nothing is answered, like in AC2 the fist fight with Borgia then the "WTF"

I think it's common these days for dev's to leave players in the dark.

 It keeps us all on the leash.
Still there is only so much you can take. If they don't answer some questions, people are just going to walk away, frustrated.

[Brockololly]

ejoslin wrote...
 Many female wardens also do the dark ritual as well (either have Loghain or Alistair perform it).  And I do know that Alistair, Leliana, and Zevran can all be killed off.  Morrigan's DR can be rejected as well.  Which is why it probably cannot be a major plot point.

Again, my main hope is that it's done well.  Truthfully, I'm just discouraged at the way things have been handled so far.

I agree- thats my whole problem with BioWare's "no canon" approach- it just seems that if ME is anything go off of, it simply means that any "choice" you had simply means it might turn into a meaningless codex entry or cameo in the future but nothing truly meaningful. Mainly because BIoWare doesn't want to make content people won't be able to see.

But at least with the DR- Gaider has said thats the biggest choice in Origins so I hope they don't give that the crappy ME style continuity treatment. This whole no canon thing is why you shouldn't be able to kill off companions like Leliana or Zev- all it does is block off their further character development in the future for some dinky choice which probably not many people even took in the first place. Having some branching storyline like the DR get continuity in the sequel isn't any different than if you killed off Zev at the beginning in Origins- you're missing out on content either way based on your choices.

TheBlackBaron wrote...
 The DA2 boards get me in an acerbic mood.

Thats the truth:wizard:

ejoslin wrote..
I should quit naysaying everywhere.  I'm all doom and gloom these days  My apologies!

Eh, no apologies needed- this is pretty much the resident doom and gloom thread after all.

[TheBlackBaron]

Brockololly wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
 Many female wardens also do the dark ritual as well (either have Loghain or Alistair perform it).  And I do know that Alistair, Leliana, and Zevran can all be killed off.  Morrigan's DR can be rejected as well.  Which is why it probably cannot be a major plot point.

Again, my main hope is that it's done well.  Truthfully, I'm just discouraged at the way things have been handled so far.

I agree- thats my whole problem with BioWare's "no canon" approach- it just seems that if ME is anything go off of, it simply means that any "choice" you had simply means it might turn into a meaningless codex entry or cameo in the future but nothing truly meaningful. Mainly because BIoWare doesn't want to make content people won't be able to see.

But at least with the DR- Gaider has said thats the biggest choice in Origins so I hope they don't give that the crappy ME style continuity treatment. This whole no canon thing is why you shouldn't be able to kill off companions like Leliana or Zev- all it does is block off their further character development in the future for some dinky choice which probably not many people even took in the first place. Having some branching storyline like the DR get continuity in the sequel isn't any different than if you killed off Zev at the beginning in Origins- you're missing out on content either way based on your choices.

To be fair, Brock, I'm not willing to write off ME's continuity yet. ME2 was the middle chapter of a trilogy and traditionally that tends to be the weakest in terms of story, and it also meant they couldn't get too wild with the divergence - they need somewhere to start for ME3. The devs comments have led me to believe that they'll start really seeing where these various choices can get to, and since they've really done nothing to dissapoint me thus far (unlike another team of developers I could mention) I'm willing to believe them.

I don't know if it was just technological limitations of the late 90's, but I recall Baldur's Gate II brining back companions from BG1 even if they been killed off. So who knows - and as I said, if their intent is to develop Thedas as an IP to rival the Forgotten Realms/Planescape/SWEU, then sooner or later something is gonna have to be declared canon.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 09 octobre 2010 - 05:39 .

[Morrigans God son]

ejoslin wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Thats true, but my *hope* would be to simply alter the beginning of any such game like with the Origin stories, have different beginnings based on how the game ended before.  Then just bring everything to some common point.

Dammit, ejoslin, that post made me sad:crying: *shakes fist at Hawke as embodiment of everything wrong with DA and BioWare*

That would be amazing, if they were to do that, if they were to do it well.  

I should quit naysaying everywhere.  I'm all doom and gloom these days  My apologies!

No, worries. There is a constant black cloud over the DA forums these days.
*Looks over to the Mass Effect forums.*
*Sees sunshine and rainbows.*
*Hangs head.*

[UFOash]

Morrigans God son wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Thats true, but my *hope* would be to simply alter the beginning of any such game like with the Origin stories, have different beginnings based on how the game ended before.  Then just bring everything to some common point.

Dammit, ejoslin, that post made me sad:crying: *shakes fist at Hawke as embodiment of everything wrong with DA and BioWare*

That would be amazing, if they were to do that, if they were to do it well.  

I should quit naysaying everywhere.  I'm all doom and gloom these days  My apologies!

No, worries. There is a constant black cloud over the DA forums these days.
*Looks over to the Mass Effect forums.*
*Sees sunshine and rainbows.*
*Hangs head.*

Sunshine & Rainbows!?

If what you say is true its clearly been a long time since I last looked in!

[Terra_Ex]

ejoslin wrote...
Don't hate on me for saying this... But the Warden's part in the future of the series by its nature has to be very small. Already, the OGB has been made somewhat trivial (WH says he's just a herald for things to come, which to me means he is not an integral part of it). Anyway, the reason I say this is if it's more than a footnote, it would be difficult to account for all the female wardens, males who didn't romance Morrigan, males who ended up with Leliana/Zevran, and wardens who did the ultimate sacrifice. You cannot make TWO major plots in a game I wouldn't think -- one for living wardens who walked through the mirror, and one for everyone else.

Regarding OGB - that's probably true because of BioWare's non-canon approach, Morrigan & the warden however - the current hope theory of this thread is that Morrigan's warning to all wardens and gift will hopefully provide some thread to bring all wardens back into the picture (which somewhat ties in with Gaider telling us that we will find out what happened when ALL our wardens *vanish* in Awakening.) I'm hoping there's a connection between these two things, but regardless Gaider's comments indicate that regardless of what happened to your warden, something on the horizon will disrupt your epilogue slide. I'm assuming (since nothing has been said to the contrary) that the plot-relevant events of Awakening/Golems/WH are canon (as in they DO happen irrespective of whether an individual purchased that particular DLC/expansion), and since WH is the last chapter then Awakening's epilogue slide still holds true.


Along the same line of thinking, I don't think who a player ends up with - Morri, Alistair, Leli, Zevran or alone should take precedence over and prevent the possibility of the warden returning in the future. Many heroes at the end of game settle down only to answer the call once again come sequel time. If you went travelling with Leli/Zev or ruling with Alistair, that shouldn't really impede your warden getting involved in a future plotline which apparently will change the world and has at least some pertinence to the Grey Wardens. A warden that stabbed Morrigan/left on good terms could be brought back into her plotline just as easily as a mirror world warden could. Whilst my preference would certainly be the warden to return as PC, I could begrudgingly accept the warden as an NPC tagging alongside Morri or something in a worse-case scenario if BioWare makes the decision to go with a new protagonist again.

Wardens who did the sacrifice kind of opted for the Biff the understudy-esque stand-in (BG2 reference there ) that is the Orlesian warden, in much the same way that slaying a companion locks you out of content moving forwards.

TheBlackBaron wrote...
And I get that some people didn't do the DR, and that they don't want their choice to be invalidated...but that works both ways. Some of us did do the DR, and are very much interested in seeing how that works out in a way that befits the monumental nature of the decision. In the end, BioWare is either going to have to leave that eternally hanging, and thus ****** off a large number of people, or suck it up and make something canon for the sake of the storyline.

Totally agree, otherwise everyone is getting screwed out of every possible conceivable plotline that involves some aspect of choice for the sake of this non-canon = no true consequences approach.

ejoslin wrote...
I should quit naysaying everywhere.  I'm all doom and gloom these days   My apologies!

Oh we're just counting down the days here till we get confirmation that we're getting screwed out of a decent resolution to our fave plotline whilst making huge posts balancing hope with pessimism. Fun times for all.

Brockololly wrote...
Thats true, but my *hope* would be to simply alter the beginning of any such game like with the Origin stories, have different beginnings based on how the game ended before.  Then just bring everything to some common point.

But at least with the DR- Gaider has said thats the biggest choice in Origins so I hope they don't give that the crappy ME style continuity treatment. This whole no canon thing is why you shouldn't be able to kill off companions like Leliana or Zev- all it does is block off their further character development in the future for some dinky choice which probably not many people even took in the first place. Having some branching storyline like the DR get continuity in the sequel isn't any different than if you killed off Zev at the beginning in Origins- you're missing out on content either way based on your choices.

When it comes down to it, its not really that hard to come up with some common "reset thread" - Awakening did a somewhat messy job of it already, but it serves as an example.

Also your companions could get perma-killed/chunked in BG2 iirc - though only at higher difficulty settings and they weren't as plot-centric as Morrigan.

Brockololly wrote...
I agree- thats my whole problem with BioWare's "no canon" approach- it just seems that if ME is anything go off of, it simply means that any "choice" you had simply means it might turn into a meaningless codex entry or cameo in the future but nothing truly meaningful. Mainly because BIoWare doesn't want to make content people won't be able to see.

BioWare's current no-canon model embodies the the very dangers Gaider himself warns against in branching dialog - it becomes unwieldy and almost impossible to rein in, resulting in many possible outcomes many players will never see. Essentially forcing them to switch protagonists or reduce all past choices to meaningless emails/codex entries.

I also worry that DA2's framed narrative approach is merely a method to show us the consequences of our actions several years down the line BUT its being done solely to prevent having to deal with them in any meaningful way in a future title - since the big thing (Chantry's downfall) seems set in stone.

I'll respond to Brock's large post later...

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 09 octobre 2010 - 07:55 .

[Brockololly]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

To be fair, Brock, I'm not willing to write off ME's continuity yet. ME2 was the middle chapter of a trilogy and traditionally that tends to be the weakest in terms of story, and it also meant they couldn't get too wild with the divergence - they need somewhere to start for ME3. The devs comments have led me to believe that they'll start really seeing where these various choices can get to, and since they've really done nothing to dissapoint me thus far (unlike another team of developers I could mention) I'm willing to believe them.

Yeah, thats true with ME3, but still, honestly nothing you did in ME1 mattered at all in ME2. The people that lived or died in ME1 only came back in ME2 in entirely replaceable roles often times saying pretty much the exact smae dialogue as the other person that could be dead. So big deal that Ash or Kaiden returned- they said the exact same dialogue. Big deal that Wrex returned when he was in a forgettable cookie cutter role as generic leader of Krogans. Big deal that you killed/saved the council- nothing meaningfully changes because of that.

Thats my issue with the "no canon" approach, you're given the choice to make all sorts of decisions but there are no consequences at all to them. You just get a different character model regurgitating some one size fits all dialogue back to you- thats not a choice.

And thats what I worry about with DA even more so than ME. WIth ME, seeing as Shep is done after ME3, they can likely have crazy divergence (hopefully) to make your choices and consequences matter. With DA, they're saying its not a trilogy and just a bunch of games where the characters are disposable but its the "world" that matters on importing.

TheBlackBaron wrote...
I don't know if it was just technological limitations of the late 90's, but I recall Baldur's Gate II brining back companions from BG1 even if they been killed off. So who knows - and as I said, if their intent is to develop Thedas as an IP to rival the Forgotten Realms/Planescape/SWEU, then sooner or later something is gonna have to be declared canon.

Exactly- I don't see it as much of a technological innovation with the "no canon" approach if by that they relegate it to any time a character is killable that simply means at best they'll be reduced to a generic one size fits all cameo in the future. Thats rubbish. I'd much prefer the BG approach of using some sort of loose canon, or actually bother to finish plot threads before moving on....

[Brockololly]

Terra_Ex wrote...
Wardens who did the sacrifice kind of opted for the Biff the understudy-esque stand-in (BG2 reference there ) that is the Orlesian warden, in much the same way that slaying a companion locks you out of content moving forwards.

Thats what ticks me off about Awakening- its like BIoWare hams up the notion of choice and consequence in their games then gives you the big reset button in Awakening. Wow, way to really hold true to having people deal with the consequences to your actions. Its an optional choice to import a dead Warden but still it just cheapens the whole notion of the DR- thats not only about making the OGB but dying a final death, where your Warden or whoever makes the killing blow isn't only killed, their soul is destroyed too.

You made the US, you should have to deal with that consequence as a player, that means you shouldn;t get to bring your Warden back in the future- you get stuck playing as Biff the Orlesian.

Terra_Ex wrote...
Oh we're just counting down the days here till we get confirmation that we're getting screwed out of a decent resolution to our fave plotline whilst making huge posts balancing hope with pessimism. Fun times for all.

Word.

Terra_Ex wrote...
Also your companions could get perma-killed/chunked in BG2 iirc - though only at higher difficulty settings and they weren't as plot-centric as Morrigan.

Heh- yeah, I really wish DA2 would have some sort of "hardcore" mode like they're doing with Fallout New Vegas. But on the topic of dead companions coming back in BG2 I think the dialogue would go something like:
Bhaalspawn: Wait, I thought you were dead?
Companion: I got better.

Terra_Ex wrote...
BioWare's current no-canon model embodies the the very dangers Gaider himself warns against in branching dialog - it becomes unwieldy and almost impossible to rein in, resulting in many possible outcomes many players will never see. Essentially forcing them to switch protagonists or reduce all past choices to meaningless emails/codex entries.

If you listened to the most recent podcast with Gaider, he does make mention that they sort of have certain slow burning plots and ones where they seemingly might have more invested in to hopefully account for choices more fully in the future. But the point stands- the choices are meaningless if we never get any meaningful payoff.

Terra_Ex wrote...
I also worry that DA2's framed narrative approach is merely a method to show us the consequences of our actions several years down the line BUT its being done solely to prevent having to deal with them in any meaningful way in a future title - since the big thing (Chantry's downfall) seems set in stone.

Thats true...but I guess, if BioWare really wants to do the whole yearly roster change with new PC's in every game, that may be for the best in terms of not leaving any glaring plot threads like the DR flapping in the breeze. Still, I'd much prefer a BG style approach to things: have one PC for a couple games or maybe a trilogy, then conclude that story and then move on to some new PC in the game world.

Couple of Laidlaw related Morrigan quotes-
From this thread:

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

You stab her and she stumbles back into the mirror. I'm guessing it's a safe bet she doesn't actually die.

It's an even safer bet that she was super pissed. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

So hooray! Those evil Wardens that stab Morri will have to deal with a super pissed Morrigan in the future! Muaaahahaha!

And he sort of mentioned how if DA2 tanks, we'll never get to see more Morrigan...tsk tsk, blackmail I say!

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Fadook wrote...

I'm a  little surprised at the emphasis on providing a gentle introduction to  combat in the early stages of the game. Given that less than a year and a half will have elapsed between the release of DA:O and DA2, I'd imagine that the majority of DA2 customers will have played the first game and  be quite familiar with the gameplay. Would've thought it would be ok to  make things challenging from the beginning. I know that many people
found DA:O too difficult at first, and the difficulty progression  certainly was off, but I'd think that most DA2 players will be  reasonably experienced.

I think you're right about that, but I don't think that experienced players will be put off by the
difficulty being a bit lower at the start of the game. That's pretty  standard issue; after all, even veterans get a bit rusty between  releases.

More importantly, though, imagine you're new to Dragon Age. There's a LOT going on in our combats: four people to control when most games focus on one is pretty daunting, for instance. By creating a smoother progression into complexity, we're essentially inviting those  new players to come in, try the water, discover it's nice and then sink  into the complexity of balancing cunning vs. dex for their rogue, or  choosing what talents to upgrade.

As a general rule, my personal  goal is to have more people playing my next game than my last. It can't
always happen, but there are steps that we can take to make sure that  number doesn't shrink. If it shrinks too much, it's over, after all. And then you'll never find out what Morrigan is up to. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

As much as I firmly believe that there's artistry in making games, artistry alone doesn't keep our teams of creators employed.

Modifié par Brockololly, 09 octobre 2010 - 08:18 .

[ejoslin]

Wow, just wow. Ahahahaha. Marketing tactic -- instead of putting out anticipated content and keeping the elements in that so many people loved, just lie, and then if that backfires, threaten instead!

Ummm, yeh, I'm going away now...  *grin*

Edit: Sorry, reading that interview kind of dashed all my hopes that DA3 would return more to the style of DA1.  GAH!

Modifié par ejoslin, 09 octobre 2010 - 09:24 .

[Morrigans God son]

UFOash wrote...

Morrigans God son wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Thats true, but my *hope* would be to simply alter the beginning of any such game like with the Origin stories, have different beginnings based on how the game ended before.  Then just bring everything to some common point.

Dammit, ejoslin, that post made me sad:crying: *shakes fist at Hawke as embodiment of everything wrong with DA and BioWare*

That would be amazing, if they were to do that, if they were to do it well.  

I should quit naysaying everywhere.  I'm all doom and gloom these days  My apologies!

No, worries. There is a constant black cloud over the DA forums these days.
*Looks over to the Mass Effect forums.*
*Sees sunshine and rainbows.*
*Hangs head.*

Sunshine & Rainbows!?

If what you say is true its clearly been a long time since I last looked in!

Well, hey! It's not like Commander Shepard just disappeared out of the blue, leaving plots and stories hanging now? I honestly wish I could get a DA banner which said, "Getting the whole team back for DA2."
So yeah....sunshine & rainbows for the ME fans!

[Morrigans God son]

Omg Laidlaw's post? Is that just pretty much confirming Morrigan for DA3 or what? From what we have heard from the man's interviews and such, DA2 seems to be setting up the story for whatever Morrigan is planning. Or they could be scamming us...using Morrigan as a DA2 advertisement to trick us! Like *cough* Witch Hunt *cough*



Anyways we shouldn't get our hopes up, this is the Morrigan thread after all!

[TheBlackBaron]

I'm about ready to start shaking my fist and screaming "Laidlaw" skyward in a manner usually reserved for David G. :innocent:

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 10 octobre 2010 - 01:42 .

[Morrigans God son]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

I'm about ready to start shaking my fist and screaming skyward in a manner usually reserved for David G. :innocent:

I did that with the Witch Hunt ending.
When Morrigan and the warden were about to walk into the mirror, I was like..."Wait where am I going?"
*Credit rolls* "GAIDER!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Terra_Ex]

These posts are getting pretty large now, blame Brock A Morri pic first.



[quote]Brockololly wrote...
If handled properly with Hawke in DA2, that switch of POV's to Hawke to see things from Flemeth's view could be very interesting. Yet on its own its only interesting to a certain extent- it could potentially be freakin' awesome if they bring everything back together come DA3, with the Warden/Morrigan/Flemeth/OGB/Hawke  converging, making what seemed disparate storylines come together. Will they do that and in a reasonable time frame though? I don't know- I hope so, but video game development is wrought with uncertainty and changes in plans.
[/quote]
Now, that would work and it would play to the strengths of protagonist switching whilst ensuring the involved parties are present when the plot reaches its climax. As you say though, timing is key and the longer it's left the less weight it carries.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Right, I mean its easy for the devs to scoff at players that may be emotionally invested in certain characters or plot lines since they know where things are headed. Yet for us Morrigan/Warden fans, we have no clue whats down the road or if there even is a road left for the Wardens romancing Morrigan. Witch Hunt certainly implied that there is more story left for the Warden, but given some of the choices being made for DA2, who knows what DA3 will look like? If it does poorly, does that mean the devs push it farther down the ME road? Or if it does really well, do they similarly take the action RPG angle even further?

In one of the Gamescom interviews with Ray and Greg, they did acknowledge how one of the criticisms of ME2 was that the RPG elements weren't visible enough so they would be working on enriching those for ME3. I think I must have posted that before a while ago, but they start talking about the ME2 RPG stuff at about the 40 second mark.Thats encouraging, but I'll believe it when I see it. I don't exactly trust BioWare's marketing these days. I liked Witch Hunt but the marketing claims made for it were more often than not straight up fabrications and lies- and I think that bit them in the ass when it came to inflated expectations some people had in terms of what reviewers and others expected from Morrigan in terms of answers.
[/quote]
I'm sorry but BioWare knew what they were setting up with the Morrigan DR>Morrigan Leaves scenario. Laidlaw promises more Morrigan, Gaider hints at the possibility of more warden and WH implies the importance of both in a future plot thread, irrespective of their relationship. BioWare creates these expectations and then plays this game of cat and mouse with the fans. To be clear it's about more than just the romance side of things. Morrigan has more plot relevance than the other LI do in the future, period. It's the greater plotline that she & the warden are embroiled in that is the draw. These things are not exclusive to a male warden romancing her, like it or not the Warden is caught in a larger plot involving Flemeth, Morrigan and seemingly Hawke as well now. Taking WH as an example, if I'm writing a story and at the end of page 146 the protagonist stabs someone, only on page 147 someone else is dealing with the consequences while the protagonist never heard of again, well, unless its a elaborate scheme to frame someone, it's poor storytelling in my eyes.

On ME3, BioWare's usual response to criticism of game mechanics is to introduce a wrecking ball to said mechanic and replace it with something completely different, so I'm not sure how RPG-esque ME will turn out to be. Witch Hunt marketing was definitely off the mark, but my expectations couldn't have been any lower at the time so I wasn't affected.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Morrigan seems human and very fallible once you get through her tough outer shell in Origins. She'd like to appear as cold and enigmatic as Flemeth to outsiders I think, but once she starts falling in love with the Warden or befriending the Warden, you can see that there is more to Morrigan than simply a icy Witch of the Wilds. She certainly retains her snark and nasty streak, but she is much more than that as a character.

Flemeth may have been more human like Morrigan at some point in time, but it sure as hell seems she is no longer much in the way of a normal human being with feelings and emotions. She is rather dead set in her ways and scheming up something big.
[/quote]
Beautifully put, although it's only the warden that actually sees the many layers beneath Morrigan's facade (though maybe Flemeth might have something to say on that in DA2) so in order to avoid the one-size-fits-all Morrigan in DA3 I expect the warden should return.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, I can't say I'd be surprised if that happened. Well, I would be surprised because surely BioWare can't be that aloof could they? Just doing something like that, especially given how WH ends would just be so mind numbingly stupid and myopic. Surely they could do it, but I'd hope they wouldn't. But yeah....maybe its time for a reminder "hope"- thats a four letter word around here after all:
[/quote]
Well, I like to think that here in the Morri thread we have certainly entertained & developed possible bridging theories/threads that could support all wardens returning in the future. Again, if WH is the last time we see the warden then Morrigan's gift serves no purpose, stabbing Morrigan serves no purpose (as she survives anyway) and the mirror world ending obviously is pointless. Whilst my posts of late are laced with pessimism I do retain some measure of hope (quivering in the corner of my heart I'd imagine) that the WH endings & what Gaider said about the "disappearing Warden" in Awakening will actually have bear fruit in the future. It's fairly unanimous that WH is far from a definite end to the Warden's story, so I can only surmise that it serves as the beginning of a common thread to possibly bring the warden back. So why the consensus seems to be "this is the end to my warden's story, wtf!?", I'm looking at it from the perspective that the door is being definitively left open.  My posts probably display far more doom & gloom than hope though.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Oh God.... yeah, it will be very telling to see how many of our imported choices get botched in the transfer from DAO to DA2, let alone stuff going from DAO to DA3 and beyond. Considering how they bungled Witch Hunt, a DLC where the import is essential to the whole damn thing, even after knowing that the flags were goofed for a long time since Origins came out, I just hope a toolset update is released so that we can fix the inevitable bugs and screwups ourselves. Or at least that now they've consolidated the importing process to such an extent internally so that they don't have lame brain flags like STILL_IN_LOVE hanging around. Ugh...
[/quote]
Yeah, it's a bit of a puzzler to be sure. Things like say Morrigan's epilogue slide in both Origins & Awakening - it's a known bug, the devs even touched upon it when we were concerned about how WH would recognise the romance while Awakening did not. Yet despite this taking all of two seconds to fix, it never has been. The size of the epilogue file or its associated scripts isn't exactly breaking any title update limits on the Xbox/PS3 side of things so yeah, I don't know what's going tbh. There's nothing I've seen of DA2 thus far that would interest me enough to invest time fixing stuff though (and the players shouldn't have to fix the game regardless) plus the addition of a voiced PC essentially kills the notion of any extensions to the main campaign, but I agree there certainly should be a toolset update.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Like I've posted several times on the DA2 forums and I'd bet Laidlaw has seen, I'm mostly interested in DA2 as a bridge to the continuation of the Morrigan/Warden story in DA3, hopefully. If Morrigan and the Warden walking off into the Eluvian was supposed to be "The End" for their story and they'd be left to legend going forward, I'd have been fine with that and happy to move on to Hawke or whatever new PC they cook up. But given that they've said Morrigan's story isn't over by a long shot, well, considering Morrigan told my Warden that they'd face the future together, if my Warden's decision to go through the Eluvian and be Morrigan and the OGB gets hand waved away, seriously, whats the point of anything in DA?
[/quote]
If we were looking at things purely from a romance perspective and were the mirror world ending a finite conclusion to Morrigan's story, then yes, as with Alistair, Zevran & Leliana their (obvious) role in the larger plot is done with and I'd happily take that ending. It's just as you say though, Morrigan's story continues beyond DA:O and by extension (through WH) so does the Warden's irrespective of a romance or not simply through Morrigan's warning and gift, although many seem blind to this it does seem a rather convenient hook to use to bring the warden back in the future, certainly allaying concerns that WH was not a fitting end for all wardens.

Right there on the front cover, you've got the Warden & Morrigan, both confirmed as major players in Dragon Age - if this duo disappears into the mirror and only one of them turns up in the future, bah - you know my take on the matter. An important question is how long is meant by "not by a long shot." I think it'd be very easy for BioWare to overplay their hand with Morrigan - let's face it there's a million different pitfalls on the road to closure of that thread. Is Morrigan's thread to run in tandem with Flemeth's? Will this chart the entire conceivable series of games (and run the risk of never being closed or will we get answers sooner rather than later and move onto new mysteries? To the point though, the mirror world is a decision as viable as any other, we can also make a reasonable assumption that DA has a large portion of male players who will have romanced Morrigan, handwaving that doesn't strike me as an informed choice.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
I know that sounds terribly melodramatic, but really, thats got to be one of the biggest choices you can make and they'd simply give the Warden the Viconia treatment?  No thanks. Although, admittedly we're cooking up a worst case scenario of the Warden being relegated to a meaningless codex entry. What if the Warden comes back as an NPC? Or what if the by the time we get to DA3, it makes sense for whatever reason that the Warden not show up? The simple solution is to just bring the Warden back as PC, but for many reasons we've gone over, I'm skeptical as hell that'll happen despite the wishy washy injections of hope Gaider always seems to make when confronted with that question.
[/quote]
I'm sure these lengthy posts in Chateau Morri paint the picture of some unhinged obsessives with plenty of free time on our hands and an unhealthy obsession but it's all fueled by the desire not to have history repeat itself with rampant plot hammer, handwaving and NWN-style continuity, especially not when you have companions of the caliber we had in Origins.

An NPC warden would be an okayish trade off, not 100% sure on how they'd pull it off successfully without fan outcries of "my warden wouldn't do/say that." At its worst you could have the warden as a silent NPC I suppose, a almost comical homage to the "old way" but that'd likely annoy more than a few people. The warden as the PC, or a multi-protagonist setup would be the optimal solution in my eyes, particularly if Morrigan & Flemeth are increasing their own power as the series progresses, having to go from lvl1 with a new PC each time will be far from appealing. Gaider is fairly swift to shoot down things that aren't going to happen and the sheer number of times he's mentioned the possibility (and significant number of fans who've expressed the same desire) make me think that maybe there's something there... Not sure you'd really gain anything through sustaining false hope except the fans eventual animosity.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
BUt we'll probably not see her- so long as DA2  doesn't do anything to screw Morrigan, OGB or the Warden over, I'll be happy storywise.[/quote]
As will I.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Bingo, Terra. Witch Hunt left things fairly well off for Morrigan and the Warden. For that I'm grateful. Yet, I don't expect it to be all happy fun times from here on out. But at least give the Warden the chance to be with Morrigan during the inevitable turmoil to come and don't simply handcuff the player into accepting some contrived reason for the Warden's absence when in  reality the reason for the Warden not being there is either because they don't want to put the effort into continuity or they can't make the Warden a voiced PC since thats BIoWare's shtick now.
[/quote]
And we come to the simple, logical and imo completely reasonable desire of most fans of Morrigan - to participate in the climax of that thread as the warden, be it as a friend/lover or her enemy. If you have all this build up and foreshadowing of something big with Morrigan & Flemeth throughout both DA:O & DA2 and the primary proponents aren't all assembled at its culmination, there's a pretty major flaw in the narrative imo.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
The writing is certainly on the wall as to suggest the Warden's continued involvement in Morrigan's story, whether an Orlesian, friendly, enemy, or lover. Of course we came up with plenty of seemingly plausible reasons for how DA2 should have been with the Warden and Morrigan and look how that turned out....meh.

And like you've said, handwaving away the Warden simply leaves you right where you were after the DR ending, hell its even worse than that really.
[/quote]
Well with WH, that plot arc (whilst somewhat revised from what I suspect was originally planned) could still go ahead. That's what I'm hoping at least one of the goals of WH was and yes, a handwave now would be worse than leaving it at the Origins ending. I'll just say, Morrigan's story is still easily salvageable into a fantastic arc, DA2's insights from Flemeth could even make it stronger, but it's all about how they handle Morrigan's return that makes or breaks it.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Bringing Morrigan back without the Warden would show to me that BioWare just doesn't "get it" with respect to why people like characters. They don't like the characters in a vacuum, they like the characters in relation to how they've interacted with your PC. I mean, I wouldn't necessarily want some new DA2 NPC to be stuck with the Warden in DA3 for the hell of it.

If news broke that DA3 brought back Morrigan in a major way but the Warden was no where to be found, I sure as hell wouldn't buy it at launch and at best during a dirt cheap Steam sale. Most likely I'd just read about the story or watch the inevitable youtube videos. I know its fashionable to express outrage and "boycott" games and such but honestly, the barrier to exit  the DA franchise is really, really low. I don't buy a ton of games each year, but even Origins, I've spent well over $100 on that between DLC and Awakening and the core game. There are certainly other games I could have spent that money on and certainly many, many games coming out next year I'm looking forward to just as much. And I think thats why its important to keep DA a traditional RPG- if it came down to say DA2 or ME3, I'd take ME3- I don't need DA to become some action RPG knock off.
[/quote]
^This. As you've said before, merely saying "Hey, Morrigan's back" really isn't going to cut it. First you've got the Morri-haters who will be outraged that the object of their hatred is back in Dragon Age, then you have the yes-men who go along with whatever BioWare does and praise it as the gospel. And then you have the Morrigan fans, presumably significant in number who will have high expectations when she does return. If the warden isn't there then I can't see how they can really give her the depth of character we saw in DA:O without rewriting her entire persona. So will it be the one size fits all Morrigan for the sake of convenience or will BioWare go the extra mile?

I agree with you, a Morri-centric DA title without the warden would most certainly not be a day one purchase. I'm not going to march over to the DA3 forum and grant my "audience" a fitting diatribe on the matter, I'll simple leave the series to its own devices. Much like I gladly moved away from BioWare after BG2:TOB, the NWN model & multiplayer focus did nothing for me and I only came back into the fold fairly recently. Will the lack of my purchase have any impact - not a chance, I simply like to choose products that meet my expectations.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Thats one of my concerns for DA2- first, that the framed narrative ends up pushing you along too much. To make an analogy, lets view Origins as a restaurant. You sit down, can order when you're ready, no pressure from the server, have a nice appetizer (Origin story), a fulfilling main course that is not only yummy but filling and you even get a nice desert and an after dinner mint (playable epilogue). Fantastic. Awakening on the other hand is like all of a sudden the restaurant is under new management with many of the same chefs, but where the server is getting all up in your face pressuring you to order, so you order, get your meal and its ok, nothing special, but even before you're finished, the server takes your plate and gives you the bill and shoves you out the door. The food (story)may have been ok, but everything just felt too damned rushed and was in no way filling or satsfying leaving you wanting more. The question is, is DA2 under new management?
[/quote]
Well, that gave me a laugh and was quite fitting in all honesty

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
The funny thing is that of all the things they could have adopted from ME to bring over to DA, its NOT the continuity of the main character into a sequel. Ugh.
[/quote]
Oh, it's epic irony - the amount of convergence we have witnessed between the two series, yet the one thing we actually do want is the one thing we don't get. *sigh*


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
As I've said many times, I enjoyed ME1 and ME2 although not as much as I enjoyed DAO. They're all enjoyable games precisely for the fact that they are all very different types of RPGs.
[/quote]
Precisely, diversity is what it's all about - you build upon the unique strengths of each series rather than trying to make everything the same. Sadly, EA likes everything to be generic, conforming to a set template so it can be carbon copied and repackaged for a given year.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Exactly- I have vivid memories of the part where you found the Arcane Warrior spirit and its stuff that no cutscene or movie could have made as memorable. The same thing in ME1 when you found that ancient orb that described what I think were the Protheans visiting ancient earth. That was unexpected and awesome. I just find it funny that Gaider and other devs wag their finger at posters on here for wanting MOAR! and yet it would seem all BioWare is doing is blindly buying into MOAR! by voice acting everything and not using it as a tool to be used in moderation.
[/quote]

I'm gonna mention Nier again (forgive me) but there was an interesting discussion on another forum between several "intelligent" posters and a typical "bro." Now, this particular scene in Nier reads literally like a book (for reasons that are apparent in-game), it's part of the genre jumping that happens mid-game and obviously it provides you with a unique angle on a character's feelings mid-game that can only be conveyed via the written word. The bro simply could not accept that what was accomplished in a text-based scene could not have been accomplished by a cutscene, in fact he almost demanded that everything be delivered to him via spoken cutscenes (sound familiar?) It was truly a sad display as he was torn apart post by post, 'twas most amusing though.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Haha- no new Morrigan quotes necessarily, although you have me to blame per Laidlaw for not having any new DA2 gameplay videos. And I also apparently wield great power as I inadvertantly caused the game to be delayed until 2014
[quote]Mike Laidlaw wrote...

[quote]CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Start nagging the PR department to let you show it then, sure fire way to end the debate. Plenty of games get trailers months and sometimes years  before release. We're 5 months out, I would think you guys would have  something you're ready to show by now.
[/quote]

It would have been out by now, but we push it back a day everytime Brock says that we  should show gameplay, so, at this rate you will see it in ..... *does some quick math*....2014.
[/quote]

[/quote]
Well you should put that power to good use Brock and lay out the plans for DA3 well in advance.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Now thats interesting. I don't know though, doesn't it seem a bit too soon to be metaphorically knocking down the sandcastle? We've hardly seen Thedas yet. I 'm wondering just how BIG this change is- something earthly like just the Chantry collapsing or something otherworldly like a massive tear in the Veil letting the Fade come through and merge or some sort of WoW Cataclysm type event that maybe geographically shakes up Ferelden or something? Or is it the return of the Old Gods?

Like I've said before lets just skip to DA3 dammit!!!!
[/quote]
Wield that power Brock and make it happen! I wouldn't say it's too early really, the Chantry's collapse could have some major ripples across the world for sure that could extend beyond DA2, I think that's separate to Morri's "change" though.


[quote]Esbatty wrote...
From several comments I've read over and over in interviews and posts by the devs that "we were planning 2 years of DLC but DA2 came together so quickly we just ran with it", that DA2 might be the cash grab/wider audience attention getter that Bioware needs to put out to please EA and convince them to make the true DAO sequel in DA3.

I mean it came together quickly meaning they used existing resources, ie the Mass Effect 2 game model. Mass Effect 3 is going to come out rather quickly thanks to simply reusing ME2's engine and game model. So it saves EA money and BW time to do it this way, but they know a true DAO sequel would require more money and more resources and more time. By pumping out this Mass Effectfied Dragon Age sequel they fill that lull in time, they explore the DA universe, and can get at a larger audience that may or may not stick around for DA3.
[/quote]
Hmmm, it's possible I suppose. Of course, if it is succesful, EA will likely push for the one year dev cycle for all future DA projects, and we'll get the shorter DA2 style outings forever more, rather than the truly lengthy DA:O/BG2 epics.

[quote]TheBlackBaron wrote...
Admittedly I'm a bit of a sap, but I think it is kind of...romantic, almost, how my MCousland basically throws away everything he has in Ferelden to be with her. Granted, he was one hell of a jaded sonofa**** in Awakening and really quite fed up with Ferelden by the end. Plus there's the lingering issue of him essentially being alone in the world - most of the Couslands are dead, after all, and Alistair is on the throne with Anora, and everybody else is...off doing whatever.
[/quote]
Yeah, I think Awakening really does give the warden the last push he needs to just say "screw it". Fergus is still around to deal with Cousland business regardless and it's time for the warden to put himself first come WH in my eyes.



[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Heh- yeah, I really wish DA2 would have some sort of "hardcore" mode like they're doing with Fallout New Vegas. But on the topic of dead companions coming back in BG2 I think the dialogue would go something like:
Bhaalspawn: Wait, I thought you were dead?

[/quote]
Haha, there were some great moments based around that in BG2 - Drizzt's return and that fourth wall breaking party of adventurers in the Underdark who kept "quick loading" the game after your party decimated them

On a side note, I've just become insanely hyped for New Vegas. I've intentionally not followed its progress much and thought I'd see where it was up to earlier today - didn't realise we're so close to release and it looks pretty damn good. I'm contemplating not playing it till the end of the semester though or it'll suck up so much time that my studies will suffer.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
If you listened to the most recent podcast with Gaider, he does make mention that they sort of have certain slow burning plots and ones where they seemingly might have more invested in to hopefully account for choices more fully in the future. But the point stands- the choices are meaningless if we never get any meaningful payoff.
[/quote]
I've not got around to listening to the most recent podcast yet, hope to do so shortly though. I read over the transcript you posted on the previous page though.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
[quote]Mike Laidlaw wrote...

[quote]SirOccam wrote...
You stab her and she stumbles back into the mirror. I'm guessing it's a safe bet she doesn't actually die.

[/quote]
It's an even safer bet that she was super pissed.
[/quote]

So hooray! Those evil Wardens that stab Morri will have to deal with a super pissed Morrigan in the future! Muaaahahaha!/images/forum/emoticons/sideways.png
[/quote]

But who's she gonna take that anger out on? Will she become the schoolyard bully and unleash merry hell on the nearest "generic voiced Dragon Age protagonist" come DA3 or will it quite rightly be saved up for those naughty wardens who wronged her? Hmmm, is there are parallel there with Flemeth's story maybe, or is it being used as the sole deciding factor as to whether we get nice/nasty Morrigan in the future?


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
And he sort of mentioned how if DA2 tanks, we'll never get to see more Morrigan...tsk tsk, blackmail I say!

[quote]Mike Laidlaw wrote...

[quote]Fadook wrote...

I'm a  little surprised at the emphasis on providing a gentle introduction to  combat in the early stages of the game. Given that less than a year and a half will have elapsed between the release of DA:O and DA2, I'd imagine that the majority of DA2 customers will have played the first game and  be quite familiar with the gameplay. Would've thought it would be ok to  make things challenging from the beginning. I know that many people found DA:O too difficult at first, and the difficulty progression  certainly was off, but I'd think that most DA2 players will be  reasonably experienced.
[/quote]
I think you're right about that, but I don't think that experienced players will be put off by the difficulty being a bit lower at the start of the game. That's pretty standard issue; after all, even veterans get a bit rusty between  releases.

More importantly, though, imagine you're new to Dragon Age. There's a LOT going on in our combats: four people to control when most games focus on one is pretty daunting, for instance. By creating a smoother progression into complexity, we're essentially inviting those new players to come in, try the water, discover it's nice and then sink  into the complexity of balancing cunning vs. dex for their rogue, or  choosing what talents to upgrade.

As a general rule, my personal  goal is to have more people playing my next game than my last. It can't always happen, but there are steps that we can take to make sure that  number doesn't shrink. If it shrinks too much, it's over, after all. And then you'll never find out what Morrigan is up to.

As much as I firmly believe that there's artistry in making games, artistry alone doesn't keep our teams of creators employed.
[/quote]

[/quote]

I do find this somewhat amusing. DA2 has in my mind moved from being a definite pre-order (which it was when I first finished Origins since DA2 would presumably be picking up in Orlais) to several rungs down the ladder of interest, to be honest I can't think of a single other instance in my gaming career where this has happened. Every subsequent reveal has done more to distance DA2 from DA:O (whether intentionally or not). So right there, you've got your current fanbase shrinking and a lot of it could have been avoided were more care taken in the initial reveal stages.

DA2 tanking = series is over, yeah that's something of a given, but the manner in which Morrigan returns and how that's handled are of equal if not greater importance as the promise of her presence in a future title. Laidlaw and friends certainly like to dangle the Morrigan carrot, but it can only go so far. If I see DA slipping fully into that NWN mold of throwaway heroes and companions (and we're already on the precipice) replete with Morrigan sinking into the embrace of aforementioned generic new DA3 protagonist then the hook is worthless and you've lost a chunk of the audience.

The top and bottom of the matter is this - Morrigan's return will go over the head of new players so they're not relevant in that sense, as we've gone into great detail about before, her return will have the largest impact on long-term players who've been with the series since DA:O, for differing reasons. For the maximum impact it's got to feature a certain player character in some capacity or all this waiting has been for nothing.

I did love your response to Laidlaw Brock, truer words were never spoken.

And I've rambled for long enough.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 10 octobre 2010 - 03:20 .

[Siduri]

So, I know it's stupid to jump into a thread without reading the prior discussion, but it's 423 pages long and I...just...caaaaaan't. I have a theory, though, that Morrigan is herself a dragon (or, rather, dragon-blooded). Has this been discussed already ad infinitum?

[stormrain]

Terra_Ex wrote...

I've been lurking this thread for, oh since Witch Hunt was first announced, and I've got to say I really love the discussion that goes on here. It actually got me back into DA:O after roughly a year of neglect and motivated me to finish my Morrigan-romancing Cousland playthrough (who was stuck very early in the game) just for Witch Hunt.

62 hours of straight gameplay (Awakening + other dlc included) with little sleep in between. O_O You see what you people made me do!

Anyway, the point of my post is that I've never seen Morrigan's line in that picture before (or I can't remember it). When does she say it?

*goes back to lurking*

Modifié par Captain Uccisore, 10 octobre 2010 - 05:02 .