Epic post time!
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
I've no desire to see spoilers however as it stands, EA scrambles to take down any videos of DA2 featuring gameplay while Bioware are reluctant even so close to release to show any footage. If they're so confident in this new amped up combat what's holding them back? Show don't tell is what it comes down to.[/quote]
As I've said to Laidlaw in some posts in the past- the best marketing for a game is to just show the damn game. To be fair, maybe its not ready, but still, if they've got something they're showing to people at conventions in playable form no less, why can't they put something together to put online? I don't get it- it just seems like they're hiding it or something- its only about 4.5 months out and we've gotten pretty much nothing since they announced it in early July. WHy not just wait and announce it closer to release if you're not going to do anything to show it off in any meaningful way in the meantime? Especially when about the only marketing its getting are rotten impressions from shaky bootleg videos?
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Yeah, I love how ximena lets Morri's hair down for errr, certain scenes
In-game though I prefer to leave the companions as they are.[/quote]
Oh, definitely. I loathe just about any and all companion face morphs. I don't mind messing around with hairstyles necessarily, but I can't find any that look that good for Morrigan besides her trademark look. I think its mostly because with any longer hair styles, the hair stays really stiff and doesn't move. Didn't they have the hair move in KOTOR and JE though? I hope they fix that for DA2.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Hmmm... wasn't there something on this exact issue in-game, some story or legend that Flemeth was hunting her daughters or something (can't remember/place it right now) or am I thinking of something else?[/quote]
Yeah...maybe it was a story Morrigan told, how Flemeth went and hunted down all her daughters at one time? Hmmm...can't remember exactly.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Yeah, that's a real puzzler, even more so in the context of one of the restored scenes where Morrigan seems sincere in her fear of Flemeth's bodysnatching.
[quote]
Morrigan: "And since you will not help me, you force me to act again. I must leave you now and... deal with Flemeth myself."
VO: icy -- the pause at the end is because she really doesn't look forward to this
[/quote][/quote]
Yeah, whatever the case, Morrigan seems to fear Flemeth. Whether thats simply due to her fear of body snatching or maybe its that and something more too. Just another question that needs answering.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
I think the problem is like with Morrigan, too many people take everything at face value and don't want to delve any deeper. With Morrigan/Warden DR scenario there's a bunch of ways that could go and where the lies/truths begin and end still isn't clear, I'd like these topics to be explored further. As would many others, I'm sure.[/quote]
Exactly, Terra. People seem to read these things in black and white and take whatever people say as some absolute truth. Obviously you don't want too much variance in what characters are saying and what their true intentions are without having some sort of major hints or else you end up with GOTCHA! moments. But I'd definitely love to see those sorts of things explored more fully.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Yeah, that's the impression I get, and it extends beyond just Morrigan's quest as well, that's why I brought up the revival/Flemeth issue, maybe a US warden isn't quite as free from Flemeth's snare as one would assume, I find it hard to believe she'd leave such a possibility to chance. I'll talk more about that later. Also true with the Morrigan observation, there's some implied inevitability there on Flemeth's part so it'll be interesting to see how things pan out when it comes to a head.[/quote]
Flemeth brings up the notion of fate several times when you speak with her and I guess it all ties back into her perceived notion to be able to see into the future. DOes she actually know these people's fates, like JOry or Maric or Loghain or the Warden or Hawke? Or is it something else entirely? Again, answers, or at least possible answers would be nice. I guess thats the thing too- getting an answer is different than getting some absolute truth. Its like the Sacred Ashes quest- we have several possible answers as to what may be going on there (Lyrium vs. actual Divinity) but the truth isn't cut and dry. Thats different than something like Witch Hunt where you don't get anything.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Oh I'd say there's more than likely something there. I think some would like to downplay just how great of a role Morrigan and Flemeth potentially play in DA, it could be an arc that runs for a while, or it could span a great many games. It intrigues me far more than some of the arguments I've seen for ditching the warden at the very least.[/quote]
Yeah, the whole Flemeth/Morrigan arc seems to be the glue tying DA together at this point. Whether their story is essentially
THE story of the the Dragon Age or if its merely something that gets the ball rolling, we'll just have to wait and see. I guess it depends on how much they want to stretch things out too.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
I concur, after WH, a mirror warden would likely be in a largely supporting role, (though that could alter depending on what exactly this change is and how it relates to GWs) which is how you could get away with his inclusion as a secondary protagonist or something similar should BioWare want to go that route. I'll put faith in the fact that there are flags attached to those WH choices they'll be used for something beyond a codex footnote and hope for the best. I'm really not certain how exactly Morrigan's return would be handled tbh, as a party member, a Flemeth style archetype, or something else... lots of possibilities and pitfalls. I think likewise with regards to Morrigan's future as a good/evil entity and it's definitely something that needs to be explored in the future.[/quote]
I think it really goes on how much of a role the Wardens at large play in whatever is to come. But if WH is any indication, they do play some role. *sigh* There is a ton of potential in how they treat Morrigan's story going forward and it would be such a damn shame if they simply take the cookie cutter, one size fits all approach many seem to be advocating for on the DA2 boards.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
A mirror world ending specific reference of any kind would be awesome, as you know I'm a fan of the whole setup with the warden potentially "going rogue" somewhat, lots of possibilities there. It'd be interesting to have a GW companion. especially so if it could be tied in with the latter.[/quote]
Oh yes- I'd love it if when the Warden came back from Mirror World, maybe he's treated as a "Warden gone rogue" since most would treat Morrigan as a dangerous apostate- I think in the WH codex for the Orlesian it even mentions that Seneschal Garavel thinks Morrigan should be killed, while others think she should be brought in alive. Throw in what you did with the Architect or Amaranthine and I'd just love to see the Warden have to account for his actions to higher ups at Weisshaupt. Or having the Warden just as much of a fugitive as Morrigan. So many cool ideas, most likely to only be crushed under the boot of some NEW EPIC HERO! for DA3. Meh.
And with a Grey Warden companion in DA2, its likely, if that trailer is anything, that Hawke goes into the Deep Roads at some point. So maybe like that DA Journey's flash game, you run into a Warden going on their Calling down there and can have them as a temporary companion maybe. Or maybe a Warden has been tasked with investigating Morrigan/Flemeth again and runs into Hawke since he seems to have some interaction with Flemeth. Definitely lots of opportunities to have a Warden come into play and spread news of the Hero of Ferelden should they want to.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
.I shall certainly be on the lookout for any Morri/Warden references though.[/quote]
Much like Awakening, scrounging for Morri/Warden references will be my primary interest in DA2 most likely.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Precisely, we only take issue with it when we see BioWare "fixing" what clearly isn't broken by borrowing elements for their other games. Everything does not have to conform to one set standard, you stand apart from the crowd and develop distinctive IPs by making something different not consolidating everything into a series of generic clones. [/quote]
Right- and in light of some of the other stuff I posted about Visceral and EA, its worrisome to me to see al of BioWare's games adopting VO everything and the wheel. The reason I've gotten largely burned out on FPS games is because more or less they all play the same- there is hardly any originality or risks being taken, outside of indie games. And the rare occassion you do get something innovative, it just gets a million copy cats. Thats kind of why I wish this console generation would end. Its beyond just simply graphical fidelity (although consoles are stuck on DX9) but just having better hardware for better AI, better physics, larger environments, better animations- thats the sort of stuff thats getting stifled by being stuck developing primarily for the consoles and not the PC.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
I suppose one benefit is you get more than 6 choices, now if we could only see the blasted text we might be getting somewhere.[/quote]
I really don't have an issue with the actual structure of the wheel, its just the paraphrases and voice acting that irks me.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Yeah, it's odd because I'm assuming they're trying to push the streamlined combat for the fabled console audience's benefit, yet this business with leaked footage getting pulled every other day and no official gameplay vids available is bizarre tbh. Surely if you've allowed people to play an early build you have enough confidence in at least that section of the game to show something to the public at large. [/quote]
Yeah, like I said earlier, if they've had playable sections of the game available since August, whats the hold up in showing anything on the internet? Are they not confident in what they have available? I don't get it. The one thing that sounds kind of annoying too with the framed narrative is that at least in the demo they've been showing, it seems as if the game starts straight up with the exaggerated part and only after that do you get to customize your Hawke. Which sounds annoyingly similar to ME2 and how you have to play through the Normandy part before you can actually start the game. That gets really, really old on subsequent playthroughs.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Also, this new playable characer... why exactly does he/she have "missions." Surely in the world of DA one would refer to them as "quests"... Are we to have a jarring "Mission Complete!" screen ala Mass Effect 2 every time we finish a quest?[/quote]
Heh- yes, I noticed this too. I wonder if there is anything to that or ifs just another case of them seemingly borrowing ME2's marketing. Seriously, if there are any stupid MISSION COMPLETE! screens....ugh. But I wouldn't be surprised if we see that- keep it easy for everyone- hell, we'll probably see how many headshots our archer racked up.<_<
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Yeah, I forgot about spacing out the conversations. I assume that will apply to some extent by way of the framed narrative timeskip approach, thereby avoiding the problem with exhausting all dialogue options too quickly. A generic bark or "appropriate comment" for me is a fairly unintuitive approach, especially as it will be contrasted in a less than favourable light by homebase dialogue and interaction.[/quote]
Yeah, Gaider did mention the framed narrative helping pace things in that regard. But you're right- its just the inconsistent manner in which you can interact with companions that makes it more jarring. So in one area you can click on them and you'll get a full blown cinematic, yet other areas they give a generic bark. Meh. I liked Origins because it was consistent throughout- you click on someone, you knew it would zoom down into the face to face view.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
As you say though Brock, I truly relish Origins as you could truly immerse yourself solely in conversation for significant lengths of time, especially whilst in camp. Make things too "cinematic" and you run the risk of detracting from what is supposed to be the focus- the dialogue itself. It's distracting if nothing else.[/quote]
Exactly- and even sometimes, I'd like to start conversation in a combat area- it helped break up things a bit if you couldn't get back to camp. But they already started this sort of "dialogue area" thing in ME2, even with combat, how you can't even unholster your weapon in ME2 in certain areas- so you always knew when combat was coming because you'd magically unholster your gun and see chest high walls everywhere.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
What can I say, really? It wouldn't be the first instance where they completely miss what made the first outing special. DeadSpace struck a perfect balance, especially on Hard mode - death was always just around the next corner, ammo was scarce, you could feel the tension in the air. You don't need an full frontal onslaught every five minutes in a horror title, it works against the conservation aspect that used to be integral to the genre.[/quote]
Very true- horror games are scary when the player feels powerless. Look no further than Amnesia: The Dark Descent- wonderful indie horror game that is leagues scarier than Dead Space.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
As for multiplayer, yeah I'll just say I hope I don't see it in DA - ever. We've already got to knuckle under with these changes, the prospect of something like meaningful conversations or even a romance whilst accompanied by the average Xbox LIVE denizen - no thanks. Everything has its place and there's no need for multiplayer in every game.[/quote]
They already did it with KOTOR:crying:
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
And I think EA trying to "label" everything is part of the problem, a game cannot stand on its own because apparently it must conform to some predefined set of misguided criteria. Ugh... I do want a Mirror's Edge sequel though, on a totally random note.[/quote]
Yeah, I think thats basically what we're seeing with BioWare already with the dialogue wheel and voiced everything in all of their games. Can't have any variety, need to keep things identifiably "BioWare."
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Like with ME2, the world is so... structured that there is an element of railroading the player about the environment. It's all business and you just head from A to B more or less, rinse and repeat.[/quote]
Precisely- its like in
Yahtzee's review of ME2, everything in ME2 felt so mechanical and like the game was holding your hand- there was no sense of exploration. So I do worry about that with DA2 especiallu given the framed narrative.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Yep, that is exactly my contention, there's little to distinguish the series from any other unrelated series of sequels and it becomes highly illogical for a "peasant" to be tackling problems of Flemeth's magnitude (who presumably won't be playing around anymore).[/quote]
It would just feel wrong to have some noob Hero facing the consequences of what essentially the Wwarden and presumably Hawke have set up over the course of 2 games. But the Warden especially, if Morrigan is involved.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
But that's a game design issue that needs to be addressed, the ability augmenting though whilst potentially allowing for deeper customisation could turn out to be a ME2 style affair. [/quote]
Yeah, it reminds me an awful lot of ME2's system, which ....yeah...not a big fan to say the least.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Precisely Brock, plots within plots, that is the very definition of Flemeth as I see it. Will people complain if such reasoning was used to bring the warden back, probably. Did she really take some altruistic action in saving the wardens in order to quell the Blight... I think sufficient doubt has been cast on that theory. Did she then decide to place all her eggs in one basket and gamble on the success of Morrigan, that seems a stretch to me as well considering VO notes indicate Flemeth suspects that Morrigan may turn on her or strike out on her own in the future. As I see it, the Flemeth/Morri arc is the current overarching plot (at least for the moment) and by being saved by Flemeth, the warden is involved in that web. You'd have to be blind to the importance of this arc considering Gaider's comments to Brock and Hawke's immediate entanglement with Flemeth in DA2.[/quote]
Yeah, I just find it funny when people like to gang up on Morrigan for seemingly using the Warden just to do the DR and yet they think Flemeth is some Saint because she seemingly saved the Warden and Alistair no strings attached at Ostagar. Sure she made Morrigan come with them, but I mean, given her nature, I sort of doubt thats all Flemeth did in saving them. I don't know what exactly, but I doubt it was just the DR considering it would seem taht Morrigan sort of goes rogue with whatever plans Flemeth may have had with the DR. I just don't get how people can trust Flemeth more than Morrigan. Its fine if you don't trust Morrigan, as she doesn't give you much to go on most times, especially if you're nasty to her. But as I've said before, Flemeth almost never gives you any answer to anything, only talking in vague abstractions. And you trust that?
And yes, I think maybe this current run of DA games is centered on Morrigan/Flemeth and their role in the Dragon Age. Whether this goes beyond, say, DA3 or if it sort of becomes the Morrigan/Flemeth trilogy, only BIoWare knows. Obviously, I just hope that whenever Morrigan's big time to take center stage comes, the Warden is there to, provided the Warden made the necessary choices.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Similarly, if the warden were to return in the future, as demonstrated here, that doesn't mean it invalidates everything that came before it and craps over whatever motivation your player character has. If you've created an unsupportable dream fantasy for your warden ignoring both the Origins and Awakening slides that suggest it's not over yet then you've only yourself to blame.[/quote]
Exactly- I don't know whatsome people expect if they come up with some
myopic fantasy land epilogue where your Warden goes off and hangs up his shoes and becomes a cat herder on the Silent Plains and then stomping your feet like a beligerent toddler once BioWare comes along and says the Warden is called back into action. Its goofy to say that your Cat Herder fantasy is just as valid as going off in search of Morrigan at the First Warden's behest. Like it or not, Morrigan is part of DA not just as a LI or character in Origins, but has some larger role to play in the DA universe and the Warden (and Grey Wardens as an organization) seem to have some connection to her.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
To be honest Brock, it's starting to **** me off with the constant warring between "fans" whenever the subject of the warden returning or the DR actually meaning something is broached on the DA2 board. To the point where I could really rage about how certain posters claim to know the mind of the devs and assert that the warden/morrigan/flemeth/ogb could never feature in any significant way, yet the US (and whatever convoluted reasoning an individual has thought up for their non-involvement in the writer-dictated plot) "must", naturally, be enforced on pain of death (pun intended). [/quote]
Yeah, there is no reasoning with some people on that board. I mean, its all fine and dandy to have a "no canon" approach when you talk about the US Warden. But bring up the notion that maybe BioWare continues the story of the DR Wardens in some meaningful way, that *gasp* might not be available to those who CHOSE to kill off their Wardens or turn down the DR? Blasphemy! Thats IMPOSSIBLE! There is no way BioWare can make the DR amount to anything other than a DLC at most!
/headdesk
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Ugh... I was very close to making a post on the matter on the "disappointed" thread on the DA2 boards, but any logical reasoning based on in-game material posted there is apparently a non-argument, so there you have it. I know we engage in some pessimism here but some people seem to have made it their personal mission to sour any threads that would like a conclusion to this arc, adopting a stance that they will win out through sheer obstinance.[/quote]
Save your typing, Terra. Try to use any reasoning or present evidence from in the game on certain topics and it just gets hand waved away- apparently some over there have some sort of telepathic connection to BioWare; must be some sort of BioWare Overmind they've all tapped into, to know exactly that the Warden will never come back and that the DR amounts to DLC at best in the future.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
There's just such a total lack of mutual respect for other peoples choices on the part of the players, coupled with the notion that (if certain posters are to be believed) BioWare "couldn't possibly include" the warden/Morrigan/OGB in the same plotline in DA3. As you say, it seems everything "must" be watered down to the extent that you might as well do the US anyway because clearly expecting some kind of follow up to the DR that involves your PC is a cardinal sin. Yeah, the "fanbase" over there just plain annoys me. Do some people want to endorse the "easy way out" approach for the DA series.[/quote]
Amen, Terra. Its impossible to express hope in any given plot line be continued if it was left as a choice in DAO. So mention hopethat the DR results in some actual CONSEQUENCES in the future and you're clearly a dolt, as its impossible for BioWare to do such a thing because "I did the US! My Warden is dead!" Its like people have latched on to the quotes from Laidlaw and Darrah saying that DA is about more than one character and its about Thedas as some mandate that its impossible to ever have a returning PC. Its more apt to probably compare DA to something like Lord of the RIngs, where you maybe view things as more of an ensemble piece, with maybe several heroes at work but ultimately building towards one unifying point in some future game- sort of what Gaider said in that they're building towards
something. Like you said though, its as if some people don't want any consequence to their choices and would rather each game be entirely divorced from the last.....ok? Yes, lets set that bar really, really low- wouldn't want any innovation or for BioWare to strive to make a unique series that reacts to player choice now would we? Ugh...
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
We're not demanding that BioWare resurrect all US wardens, or that all wardens should follow Morrigan, we're just stating that evidence is there in-game that could point towards all wardens getting involved in the future. Much like how Shepard joins Cerberus in ME2, your personal extended fantasy of travelling Thedas post-Blight (or w/e floats your boat) doesn't take precedence over the overarching plot.[/quote]
Exactly- did the Cerberus but seem a bit forced in ME2? Sure. But did you just say screw it and stop playing? No- it was the PLOT. Doesn't mean you can't disagree with how the plot goes, but its there to move things along and make it interesting, not indulge in anyone's Cat Herding Retired Warden fantasies.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
We're in the unfortunate situation where BW has Morrigan fans over a barrel with the promise that she'll return in the future. Thus, we can't cook up our fantasies of skipping through fields of daisies with her like other players can with their respective LIs. We have an investment in her plot and want some meaningful payoff that features the player character in some way, I fail to see what's so insidious about this that it apparently "cannot be done" in spite of the skeleton framework that's already starting to take shape. If you dare to suggest that perhaps the Awakening epilogue or WH foreshadows something for the living warden, why you're just destroying the hopes and dreams of a whole generation apparently.[/quote]
Precisely- the issue with Wardens that romanced Morrigan is that so long as Morrigan is still involved in the overall DA plot, so is the Warden, as Witch Hunt all but confirms by letting him follow her through the ELuvian. So its not some crack pot dream to think that "Hey! When Morrigan comes back, maybe the Warden will too!" Heaven forbid you utter that, because "DURRR! MY Warden iz DED!" *sigh*
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
So despite the lead writer saying that, fellow players would still seek to deny us closure. Maddening, you're not even afforded the chance to discuss the potential future for such a plot thread anymore...[/quote]
Thats the problem with the "no canon" approach as I see it, especially with the US. You have a subset of people that are done with Origins and just want to skip from game to game woth fresh starts in each, ignoring the events of the past game. While if you're at all interested in Morrigan's story, you want to know more about that, as its hardly even begun yet and keeps being teased, especially with the Warden involved. But as we've said there are definite ways to continue it with the Warden, but heaven forbid the PLOT actually try to move Morrigan's story along with the Warden.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
As for the notion that by selectively "skipping" Awakening/WH you can bypass the plotlines and expect no default choice to be assumed - what kind of approach to storytelling would that be? Is this some branch off from the "pix or it didn't happen" internet mentality? I fail to see the logic in that I'm afraid, such an approach would just render everything post-origins utterly pointless, bringing us once again in line with a US ending... [/quote]
Ha- yeah, its like if I skip a chapter in a book, well, the events in that chapter clearly never happened, right? Nevermind the fact that Laidlaw has said that Awakening does matter as does WH given the flags and all.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Take things like how WH can end; the foreshadowing of Flemeth & the change, the warning given to all wardens. It doesn't make sense to have these variables in play or deliver these points to the warden if the warden is never to appear again. If WH is the end of the warden, why bother to make a distinction between the player's choice at the end, there's simply no point in doing so unless BioWare do intend for it to matter as we move forwards. So yeah, people assume too much with the "BioWare can't do xyz because the world would end," attitude, bah.[/quote]
Certainly the writers
could find ways to conclude Morrigan's story without the Wardens, but given how they've set things up to this point and by the end of WH, it would be like fitting a square peg in a round hole- it wouldn't fit and would be glaringly out of place.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
What can be used however are the plot flags, that's what will be used to define the worldstate. Your personal fantasy of running a bakery with xyz in idyllic bliss after the epilogue didn't matter in Awakening and it certainly won't matter moving forwards, that flexibility is afforded to you outside of the gamespace but can be countermanded at the whim of the writers at any time, with the plot flags set in your gamestate providing a way for that character's story to blend into a new plot. To underline this for the final time, Awakening foreshadows an event for all living wardens that will likely utterly destroy your personal fantasy. (It doesn't seem to be the calling or Gaider would have likely stated that's what it was) The notion that the DR warden is permanently out of the picture because he/she settled down or you've dreamed up a new quest for him is flawed through in-game evidence and Gaider's comments on the issue.[/quote]
Exactly Terra. And thats part of the beauty of the silent PC too- you're afforded a blank slate to build up that backstory if you want. So sure, the game isn't going to recognize that my Warden was angsty and brooding while in Amaranthine because he'd have rather been out searching for Morrigan, but with the silent PC, I can have him sounding in my head such a way that thats reflected in his voice and I can justify his actions via that backstory. But at the end of the day, its just the plot flags that are left. So if the Warden comes back into action, well, you'll just have to RP it that your bakery was shut down by the Ferelden Health Inspector after finding Tainted Muffins , thus providing you with a newfound vigor to kill darkspawn.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
You can't take this approach and still tout a no-canon, choices matter front for your product (and to their credit, BioWare haven't stated that they're going to do this), it works both ways I'm afraid and one choice cannot inherently limit the other if this framework is to be successful. [/quote]
I guess you could argue whether BioWare will put in the leg work to make it successful, especially given how ME2 handled things. But I have no reason to believe that BioWare won't follow through- considering how Gaider has said the DR is the most important choice in Origins and how surely BioWare knows that the demand is there to see this plot thread carroed through- and I would guess this is suported via their telemetry too. Hell, if nothing else, the Bros probably saw the DR as a chance to "HaV hot SexxxoRZ wit Dat Wich DURRRR!"
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
So, yeah, like I said to Brock above, the "fans" are causing the rift in my eyes. While me and Brock have talked about how maybe keeping the primary effects of a big choice within the "owning game" may be the way to go, the fact remains that Morrigan will remain a bone of contention until it's resolved and while things may be quiet now, if that plotline amounts to very little by way of the US possibly shackling the DR's potential then in my mind you've just disregarded a major choice and I think the Morrigan fans will suddenly become a hell of a lot more vocal come DA3 if that happens. [/quote]
Absolutely- unless DA2 kills the franchise, if DA3 comes and Morrigan returns in such a way that marginalizes the Wardens that were involved with her, people will be pissed, rightly so. I mean, just look at the people upset by Witch Hunt's botched ending. BioWare is building this up to something and so they have to provide the pay off eventually- the US people had their payoff in Origins- for those that did the DR, we're all still waiting to see the consequences there.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Personally, I think there have already been enough compromises regarding scenes involving Morrigan getting cut from the game (or reduced to a one size fits all) and I would hate for further examples of this to manifest in the future. It's all at the whims of the writers and not a few individuals trying to shout down any optimists for the future.[/quote]
Very true. I'd hope that BioWare realizes this- cookie cutter, one size fits all scenes in games that are supposed to emphasize player choice and consequence are the wrong way to approach things.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
I hope you enjoyed that mini-rant on why I facepalm whenever I see a warden/DR-related topic on the DA2 boards and how some posters apparently have greater knowledge as to what is acheivable than the developers themselves. As you've mentioned Brock, if certain people had their way, the warden who did the DR will have about as much prospective functionality post DR as a corpse. And now I'm gonna stop ranting, perhaps this belongs in the DA2 thread that inspired it but then I may as well direct it at the nearest wall for all the good it'd do. I don't mean to tar all players with the same brush as we have some very level headed posters here on the boards but 'tis most frustrating of late.[/quote]
You summed it up rather nicely Terra. The DA2 board is by and large facepalm inducing and more often than not conversation is impossible. So it goes.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
I agree, I'm guessing Hawke's big decision will come when we reach those closing moments, and it will be a big one, maybe sealing the Chantry's fate/something to do with mages... Any potential meeting between those two is likely the point of no return though, DA2's DR essentially. It'll certainly divide the fanbase once again...[/quote]
It makes me wonder though- if we have some big/huge world changing choice in DA2 that gets no resolution, will it get resolution in DA3 or brushed aside like the DR for some future game? I am still wondering how much game is left once the framed narrative catches up with the "present day"- 10 years post Origins?
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
It's being sold on the back of cinematic awesomesauce I guess? I would have thought it a logical priority to showcase the product you're attempting to sell before detailing a signature edition...[/quote]
Oh god, don't get me started on that- yes, lets rush people into preordering a game which has exactly zero footage available (outside of shakycam bootleg stuff)... brilliant. Its a good deal if you're preordering already I suppose, but its not targeted at them- presumably its to get people on the fence to preorder. But will there be any significant details available before January 11th? ME2 didn't start having big details available like PC specs or PC footage available until a couple weeks before launch. If the PC footage looks good, I'd gladly preorder, but I won't do so until we can see
something of the game thats not immediately disowned as being unrepresentative.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Sitting about on a throne isn't doing much about the death sentence over my head either, whereas following a path of power alongside Morri could have its dividends.[/quote]
Word.
Definitely more fun and adventure to be had going along with Morrigan than settling tex disputes and dealing with quarreling farmers as King Consort- leave that job to Alistair/Anora.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Ah, I believe my 360 wardens are currently stuck in the friend zone courtesy of everybodies favourite flag, the important ones have been reborn on the PC platform though so they can live on.[/quote]
Another reason why PC is superior...*dons flame suit* Seriously, I can't believe it takes MS that long to get the patch out- insane.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Seems feasible enough to me, that's what I was getting at with the Flemeth angle, a US warden could still unwittingly be playing into her hand, which becomes all the more believable as we note she has a penchant for "bumping into" important characters in Thedas. of course since a fair few people like to take everything at face value, bringing back the US warden even in this way would naturally be crapping all over their choice.[/quote]
Yeah, like I said, I have a hard time believeing Flemeth saved the Wardens simply to stop the Blight. Rmemeber she had no problem keeping the darkspawn at bay when they surfaced farther back in the Wilds in her backyard basically. As Morrigan mentioned, Flemeth had some role in the Blight- just another unanswered question. *sigh*
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
what I want to know is how long is DA2 going to be in active QA. I can picture the "What comes my friend?" moments already.[/quote]
Oh god- yeah, isn't QA generally one of the first cuts in a game thats getting rushed along? Given how atrocious Awakening was, I am very much concerned about this for DA2. Although maybe since its a smaller game they'll have less to bug check, who knows.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
The consensus (based on Gaider's no Claudia VO comment and Laidlaw saying DA2 is setup for future plotlines, including Morri's) is that she won't be present. I believe Laidlaw told Brock however that she would definitely be referenced (or at least implied it). Like we've said before, WH for the romancing warden and friendly wardens is a perfectly serviceable conclusion for now. It's DA3 where the possibilities and our fears now lie. And yeah, if certain people would stop belittling the DR and the potential importance of the warden, we'd be fairly happy to refocus on DA2 for now.[/quote]
Right, WH is a fine ending if thats all that ever came of Morrigan. But the devs have said many times that Morrigan's story is not over and thats whats worrying- having Morrigan return but no trace of the Warden. So I'm certainly expecting allusions or references to Morrigan and the Warden in DA2, but anything beyond that I really hope they save for some future game where they can more fully focus on it.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Ironically, my friends major complaint with ME2's companions was the lack of party banter whilst out and about, DA:O made the ME crews interactions look hollow by comparison. And yeah, I completely agree, its just an oversimplification that reduces your companions to a push button mechanic tbh.[/quote]
Yeah, the ME2 squadmates might as well be AI bots when you're out and about. And they feel so static staying on the ship all the time, apparently just so we can have Shep sit down and move aorund in the conversations because clearly thats sooooo cinematic, limiting all conversations to one dinky area.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
[quote]MoSa09 wrote...
In the head? If i remember correctly, the Warden was hit in the right shoulder, and the one getting hit in the head some anonymous guard, who, well, was bound to die anyway.
[/quote]
Can't remember tbh, could still have been maimed after passing out however, all I'm saying is maybe there's something there, it was some time before you awoke after all...[/quote]
I could have sworn one time my Warden had about 4 arrows sticking out of him, one right at his neck/head area.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Yeah, there's a whole lot of stuff that BioWare apparently can't import... for varying reasons.[/quote]
At a minimym I hope they clean up the flags and suchso that they CAN properly import stuff and avoid stupid flags like STILL_IN_LOVE in the future.
[quote]Swoo wrote...
My
refound addiction to Fallout 3 has left me with way to many pages of
this thread to catch up with, but this picture is just awesome.[/quote]
I am sooooo looking forward to New Vegas. I really hope its not plagued with the technical issues most Obsidian releases seem to have, as they do a great job with the story- hell, better than BioWare sometimes.
Modifié par Brockololly, 17 octobre 2010 - 04:29 .
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