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THE Morrigan Discussion and Research Thread *Infested with Bugs Yet Again!*


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#10801
Lord_Anthonior

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Esbatty wrote...

'Tis easy, ser. Instead of clicking on the "add file" button on the submission page, it is simply a matter of selecting the button next to it that says "add text". 'Tis so simple Alistair could do it!

HEY!


It is indeed, found it!! I hadn't click on submit because I didn't have anything to upload, so from there you add the text...excellent, Ximena's art is after awakening, your's is during eluvian's journey so I'll see what can I do. Thanks ser!
and yes...alistair could do it but that gossiper most be lost in the woods chasing rabbits. Even the hound can be a better hunter.:D

*sitting at camp close to the bonfire watching Morrigan reading tomes and working with some flasks and herbs I open a blank journal...

#10802
Esbatty

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As for the whole Alistair/Morrigan deal. He is an ex-Templar trainee and she is an Apostate Mage. He is more than a bit naive to some of the ways of the world and she is an inverted version of that.



They're as much alike as different and thus it is natural that they clash. They both have snark and sarcasm at the ready, but he likes being lead and being part of something. She likes her freedom and knows she is part of something big that is going down. He wants adventure and to live his life, while Morrigan wants to see the world before it changes entirely.



So no I don't hate Alistair. "Stupid Good" Vann Cousland treated him as a brother and made him and anora the rulers of Ferelden. "Does What He Wants and Has To" Vann Cousland as a boon had his life spared and married Anora himself.



Alistair is just vehmently anti-Morrigan. She is not nice to him, not used to dealing with people with Alistair, and truly does enjoy watching him fail at... pretty much everything. Even AU Darkspawn Chronicles Morrigan stuck around specifically to laugh at him suck so bad on his path to the battle with the Archdemon.



So yeah neither Cousland has a dislike for Alistair, it actually churned them both up inside to see him stomp off with the good armor and weapons (I might add) and just be pissy about it. And naturally they couldn't say no to Morrigan's request for the Dark Ritual. Better "One More Day" with her than see her spirit off without what she specifically hoped to gain from helping counter The Blight. I mean everyone got something out of taking up arms with the Warden. (Even disappointing Alistair kept him from both death and the suckedness of marrying a woman he doesn't love and taking a position he doesn't want nor is qualified for.)



Its Alistair's choice to run off and become a drunk. He coulda gone to Weisshaupt or Orlais and continued on as a Warden. He coulda stuck around too no matter what Anora says.



But yeah, deep down Alistair and Morrigan were some of the best damn party banter. "You have your Mother's nose", maker that is fun stuff.

#10803
Zjarcal

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Brockololly wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
Just out of curiosity, what the hell is that game like? Is Morrigan just a face in it or does she carry her personality from DA?

Not that I would ever play that... :whistle:


Haha- Its a aerial combat game for kids basically- EA shoved Shepard in there too and some other of their characters. I think Morrigan is just an unlockable character and since its a Sims game, she probably just talks Sims gibberish if anything.

Here is some gameplay with Morrigan flying.:P


Oh no, Kage took down Morrigan!! :crying:

*facepalm*

I wonder if the Warden will be able to ride in her ship in DA3... :alien:

#10804
Esbatty

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I was tempted to pick it up simply for Shep and Morrigan but damn if it is not a damn full priced game. I'll wait to pick it up when it hits like 7 bucks at gamestop. Sorry EA.

#10805
Lord_Anthonior

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Zjarcal wrote...
Oh no, Kage took down Morrigan!! :crying:

*facepalm*

I wonder if the Warden will be able to ride in her ship in DA3... :alien:


Or in an optimistic point of view...the warden was already there, she was sitting on his lap ^_^, there was no way to let Morrigan fly alone and in danger to be taken down.

#10806
Esbatty

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Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
Oh no, Kage took down Morrigan!! :crying:

*facepalm*

I wonder if the Warden will be able to ride in her ship in DA3... :alien:


Or in an optimistic point of view...the warden was already there, she was sitting on his lap ^_^, there was no way to let Morrigan fly alone and in danger to be taken down.


Actually they could crash land on some continent plagued by CHUDs and I think the duo would turn out alright. Which that silly comment actually brings to mind... Thedas, being a continent, a large land mass makes me wonder if its the ONLY large land mass out on the planet Thedas sits on.

I mean seriously, I thought Thedas was the "world" of Dragon Age. No No its the continent its set on. Who the hell knows what other lands and people are out there? Since this set in a medieval-fantasy universe maybe they just don't get around alot.

And speaking of which what is the name of the world they live on? For all we know The Fade is simply on the other side of the planet. When they talk of "worlds" in the game they are speaking more like "realms of existence" I mean you have the Mortal Realm where Thedas exists then you have The Fade where Spirits and dreamers go, and then you have "Beyond the Fade" with The Black City/Golden City and *hint hint nudge nudge* where the dead go which is supposedly either "with the Maker" or in this void/purgatory/limbo existence.

So how this all pertains to Morrigan... where the F*ck did she go? I can theorize and write up all that I want but I seriously want to know where she went (or where her "corpse" went, those stabby bastards - who spends 7 dollars and 2 hours just to murder an optional character WHO?!?! lol)

#10807
Lord_Anthonior

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Esbatty wrote...

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
Oh no, Kage took down Morrigan!! :crying:

*facepalm*

I wonder if the Warden will be able to ride in her ship in DA3... :alien:


Or in an optimistic point of view...the warden was already there, she was sitting on his lap ^_^, there was no way to let Morrigan fly alone and in danger to be taken down.


Actually they could crash land on some continent plagued by CHUDs and I think the duo would turn out alright. Which that silly comment actually brings to mind... Thedas, being a continent, a large land mass makes me wonder if its the ONLY large land mass out on the planet Thedas sits on.

I mean seriously, I thought Thedas was the "world" of Dragon Age. No No its the continent its set on. Who the hell knows what other lands and people are out there? Since this set in a medieval-fantasy universe maybe they just don't get around alot.

And speaking of which what is the name of the world they live on? For all we know The Fade is simply on the other side of the planet. When they talk of "worlds" in the game they are speaking more like "realms of existence" I mean you have the Mortal Realm where Thedas exists then you have The Fade where Spirits and dreamers go, and then you have "Beyond the Fade" with The Black City/Golden City and *hint hint nudge nudge* where the dead go which is supposedly either "with the Maker" or in this void/purgatory/limbo existence.

So how this all pertains to Morrigan... where the F*ck did she go? I can theorize and write up all that I want but I seriously want to know where she went (or where her "corpse" went, those stabby bastards - who spends 7 dollars and 2 hours just to murder an optional character WHO?!?! lol)


Antiva or Tevinter most get their explorers and go "columbus" or "viking" to see if they can discover other lands then the chantry can judge another genitivi for saying that the world is round and not flat and I don't want to go that far ahead but Thedas can very well get to a point of colonizing, conquering and then fighting independece wars. <_<

Morrigan most have found an all around visa to go someplace beyond that world, or maybe just magic means, theories can be many. :lol:

#10808
Esbatty

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In The Land Of Ever
Chapter 3 - "Nothing Else Matters" is up.

-00-

I promise, Chapter 4 OGB/OGC appearance!

Modifié par Esbatty, 23 octobre 2010 - 11:25 .


#10809
Brockololly

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@Esbatty: Nice work! Ha- did Morrigan lose the Old God Baby? Uh oh!:o

So in this thread in the DA2 forums, Dahlialynn's Alistair wedding mod was brought up in the context of having a satisfying ending based on your choices in the game. Then Laidlaw replied:

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

We absolutely could do it.

We just chose not to, because we have X amount of time to make an entire  game, and for everything you do, something else doesn't get done.

In an example like this, a scene that can only be viewed by human noble  females who have successfully had a romance with alistair AND who chose  the ritual represents a reasonably small portion of the audience.  Therefore, the effort could be better spent on a scene that, say, 90% of people will see instead of 10%.

I really don't understand why
people feel the need to imply we're incompetent because we don't do
every possible thing we could do. Am I incompetent because I chose to go
to a movie instead of skydiving one Saturday?


And then I replied back asking along the lines of the whole 'no canon' aspect of things in so far as Morrigan and the OGB:

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
In an example like this, a scene that can only be viewed by human noble  females who have successfully had a romance with alistair AND who chose  the ritual represents a reasonably small portion of the audience.  Therefore, the effort could be better spent on a scene that, say, 90% of people will see instead of 10%.


Ok, I understand that logic. Fair enough.

But, with the whole "no canon" approach, isn't this sort of thing going to  be problematic as the series goes along if you're importing choices? In  that, if my Warden did the DR and made the Old God Baby with Morrigan  while some other Warden went the Ultimate Sacrifice route, those are 2  very disparate outcomes. So would the resources be bothered to be put  into continuing the DR plot with OGB amounting to more than a cameo or  codex entry, given that some percentage of people might not have that  because they did the US?

Its scenes like that wedding one that  should be the unique reward for those people that made those choices to  get to that point. But you guys likely have a good idea going forward as to what choices were most commonly made,so I guess that would help in  determining how many resources to allocate to things going forward with  the whole "no canon" approach.


Yep, we do. We  also know what kinds of things were memorable, and stuck with people. I  suspect there will be things in DA II that you would never have expected to see us reference, and things that you'll wonder why we didn't  reference them.

There are always ways to make something into a  big deal, if we choose to. Not everything can be, for reasons we have  outlined, but for something like Morrigan, of course we'd be prepared to account for differences. For other things we can only do references,  and other things must fall by the wayside. Rest assured that these are  artistic choices, usually made to support the themes of the game in  development, though a few are there because they damn well make us chuckle.


It'll be interesting to see just how much continuity they have with Morrigan and the OGB and such going forward.

Modifié par Brockololly, 24 octobre 2010 - 03:30 .


#10810
ximena

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@Brock



Now I want to skip DA2 more. Hahahaha. DA3nowplz.

#10811
Esbatty

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Well in order to ensure a DA3 happens I preordered DA2. 'cause is DA2 tanks they already threatened no DA3. Shameful but effective.

@Brockololly maybe.Posted Image

Modifié par Esbatty, 24 octobre 2010 - 04:25 .


#10812
Brockololly

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ximena wrote...

@Brock

Now I want to skip DA2 more. Hahahaha. DA3nowplz.


Ha- yeah, I 'm sure DA2 will have some interesting Flemeth lore and probably some Morrigan references here and there and plenty of speculation fuel. But its all filler until DA3 when hopefully Morrigan and the Warden can make their glorious return.

@Esbatty: Oh, I'll likely preorder DA2 as well- but not until they show off some PC gameplay. There are certainly many other games coming out early next year such that if DA2 doesn't at least look like a good PC game, I can wait on it, as I'm mostly in it for just the story at this point, and with no Morrigan.....meh.

#10813
Lord_Anthonior

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Brockololly wrote...

ximena wrote...

@Brock

Now I want to skip DA2 more. Hahahaha. DA3nowplz.


Ha- yeah, I 'm sure DA2 will have some interesting Flemeth lore and probably some Morrigan references here and there and plenty of speculation fuel. But its all filler until DA3 when hopefully Morrigan and the Warden can make their glorious return.

@Esbatty: Oh, I'll likely preorder DA2 as well- but not until they show off some PC gameplay. There are certainly many other games coming out early next year such that if DA2 doesn't at least look like a good PC game, I can wait on it, as I'm mostly in it for just the story at this point, and with no Morrigan.....meh.


If there were a "Morrigan Players United" I would nominate Brock to be the ambassador with the developers. He was certainly replied for his comments and is clearly more interested in Morrigan than any other characters.B)

Modifié par Lord_Anthonior, 24 octobre 2010 - 05:07 .


#10814
Esbatty

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Brockololly wrote...

ximena wrote...

@Brock

Now I want to skip DA2 more. Hahahaha. DA3nowplz.


Ha- yeah, I 'm sure DA2 will have some interesting Flemeth lore and probably some Morrigan references here and there and plenty of speculation fuel. But its all filler until DA3 when hopefully Morrigan and the Warden can make their glorious return.

@Esbatty: Oh, I'll likely preorder DA2 as well- but not until they show off some PC gameplay. There are certainly many other games coming out early next year such that if DA2 doesn't at least look like a good PC game, I can wait on it, as I'm mostly in it for just the story at this point, and with no Morrigan.....meh.


While its Morrigan-less, I feel DA2 will expound on the "Witch of the Wilds" fact from fiction seeing that army of apostate witches that are garbbed like Sacred Ashes Morrigan. For all we know we actually meet one or more of Morrigan's sisters/Flemeth's daughters in DA2. While not as good as actually having Morrigan in game, her absence is kind of explained thanks to Witch Hunt in her whole "time to gather power" speech.

Since Laidlaw keeps presenting Morrigan and Flemeth as integral parts of the DA Universe, I seriously hope for some more novels and DLC and DA3 with Morrigan-y goodness.

Ooh which reminds me I downloaded the Xbox Witch Hunt update patch and got all 3 of my WH end game saves now. Both Vann Cousland and Vann "In The Land of Ever" Couslands got their save plus Renard Amell got his save too. I switched off subtitles to give this new playthough a more cinematic "flair" thus meaning I'm actually playin gwith my Television set to above 2 in volume, and holy hell... I'm noticing all kinds of stuff I never caught before because I was always reading.

This playthough is a Male City Elf origin (This way I get to see the other half of the Vaughn-Wedding-Rapist storyline) ((Seriously, F* that guy.)) And naturally he is gonna romance Morrigan, but I never EVER noticed she had this long black ringed sleeve dealie on her arm. And honestly she has one of the most expressive set of facial animations, well Alistair and leliana also are very expressive, but its just shocking seeing them be... human. Reading the emotions in their comments and dialogue other than just reading it and hearing the VA's deliveries. Dialogue that I assumed were very plain, are much easier to interpret now that I watch their faces.

Anywho, on a side note: I swear I never noticed it on my Female CE playthough, but one of Vaughn's drinking buddies I think his name was Lord Braeden, looks just like Vann Cousland. Well a drunken, scruffy Vann Cousland. So I was really shocked to see him all fratboy rapey.

#10815
Morrigans God son

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I still don't actually know if I'm going to buy DA2 yet. I'm in two minds about it. Nothing really appeals to me so far, except for Flemeth and some references to old characters and such.

I doubt DA3 will be about the Warden either, I hate to be a party pooper! but...'tis true.



The godbaby will probably have a small appearence in the future (If lucky) Sort of like Ser Perth or Murdock ect. I really thought the DR was sequel material. Anybody else think BioWare are digging themselves into a deep hole with the hole "NO CANON." thing?



I feel as if DA2 and Hawke is like an expansion for Origins. It's building up to Morrigan's return is it not? Meh...who knows.

#10816
Esbatty

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Well Mike Laidlaw keeps putting an emphasis on her and her unfinished story even Post-witch hunt, so I'm assuming she has to make return at some point. Other people say the toolset reveals, during party banter with Zevran, that she bears intentions to declaw Flemeth and become the new "Witch of the Wilds". Brock even just quoted that Laidlaw gave the example of decisions regarding Morrigan would be addressed when required as opposed to something akin to Alistair's wedding to the female noble Warden.



With that outcome being an option in but 1 of over a dozen possible wardens (considering gender, race, and class) while with Morrigan you either did or didn't do the Dark Ritual either be getting rid of her early on or denying her or accepting the offer which is an option with all different combinations. So its a big choice and thus a big factor in any future Morrigan appearances.

#10817
lilmeezer

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Running a Cousland male rogue (to check out the improvements made by Terra's mod) and got an interesting story from the Ash Warrior Leader at Ostagar. I didn't get this story with my Amell or Aeducan (supposedly you can't get the story if you are a dwarf). Here it is from the wiki: The Legend of Luthias Dwarfson The most interesting parts of the story (besides the obvious Arthurian references) are that one of the main characters is an Avarr Chieftain named Morrighan'nan.



Luthias led his tribe to many victories, until eventually he replaced his foster father as chief of his tribe. This peace would not last. During a feast between the tribal leaders of the Alamarri and the Avvar, the beautiful and powerful Avvar chieftain, Morrighan'nan, became enamored with Luthias and seduced him. Scaea learned of the tryst and fled the village to return to Orzammar. When Luthias rebuffed Morrighan'nan's offer of marriage, she left in great anger, and from that moment on, there was war between the two tribes.



For 15 years, the Alamarri and Avvar fought. During the Battle of Red Falls, a powerful young warrior from Morrighan'nan's tribe challenged Luthias to a battle. Luthias was injured grievously, but slew the boy. Morrighan'nan revealed that the boy was Luthias's son, conceived 15 years ago during their tryst. She cursed Luthias as the murderer of his own kin, and the Battle of Red Falls turned against Luthias.



Morrighan'nan defeated Luthias in battle after battle, until the Alamarri were driven to the foothills of the Frostback Mountains. There, Luthias made a last stand. In the night before Luthias's final battle, Scaea came to him and offered him a dwarven suit of chain in exchange for a night together. Luthias agreed and wore the armor the following morning in battle. The battle was fierce and bloody, and Luthias met Morrighan'nan in personal combat. In the end, Luthias slew the warrior woman, but not before receiving a mortal wound to his heart, the chain inexplicably unable to block her final blow. Luthias died, and after the battle was done a party of dwarven warriors came down from the mountain and took the body of Luthias back to Orzammar.




Besides Morrighan'nan obviously referencing Morgause (or is it Morganna?) from Aurthurian tales, do y'all think Morrighan'nan has any relation at all to Morrigan? Such similar names!



Also, noticed in talking to Wynne at Ostagar that she mentions the Golden City (or at least what it is now) is at the center of the Fade. We've often mentioned in our discussions over whether that is where Morrigan might have gone when she went through the eluvian as it seems to be a place visible from yet unaccesable in the Fade. Just wondering if what Wynne says is true, and Morrigan says she's going somewhere "beyond" the Fade, it very well might be something else still yet.



On a totally different note, my mother-in-law today asked me what "apostasy" meant, and in my mind there was a battle between the definitions relating to the context she was asking in and then then all the Chantry warnings against apostates in the game, ha! Couldn't give her the Chantry/game definition, of course, but it did make me chuckle (she probably wondered why I had an amused look on my face as I tried to come up with an appropriate answer relating to the context in which she was asking, though!)

#10818
Esbatty

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If I'm remembering correctly when you're in the Fade when you look up at the sky you can see the Black City and its always the same distance away no matter where you are in The Fade.

But yeah I remember getting that story out of the rude Ash Warrior leader with my Cousland. Interesting that she is a warrior woman and leader of her people. Which is what kind of inspired me for the line that Morrigan picked her name out of a book. I originally meant to say tale but book works too.

EDIT: Chapter 4 "Everlong" is up in the "In The Land Of Ever" fanfic thread.

Modifié par Esbatty, 24 octobre 2010 - 09:36 .


#10819
Brockololly

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Esbatty wrote...
While its Morrigan-less, I feel DA2 will expound on the "Witch of the Wilds" fact from fiction seeing that army of apostate witches that are garbbed like Sacred Ashes Morrigan. For all we know we actually meet one or more of Morrigan's sisters/Flemeth's daughters in DA2. While not as good as actually having Morrigan in game, her absence is kind of explained thanks to Witch Hunt in her whole "time to gather power" speech.

Yeah, that sort of lore could be very interesting to uncover and maybe give more backstory to Flemeth and the lore of the WItches of the Wild. And maybe give an opposing view to what Morrigan is up to. I just hope that they don't do anything in DA2 such that it brings down the Plot Hammer on Morrigan or the Warden with the player not able to do anything.

Esbatty wrote...

Well Mike Laidlaw keeps putting an emphasis on her and her unfinished story even Post-witch hunt, so I'm  assuming she has to make return at some point. Other people say the  toolset reveals, during party banter with Zevran, that she bears  intentions to declaw Flemeth and become the new "Witch of the Wilds". Brock even just quoted that Laidlaw gave the example of decisions  regarding Morrigan would be addressed when required as opposed to  something akin to Alistair's wedding to the female noble Warden.

Yeah, I'm not worried that Morrigan won't show up in the future. She will. Like you mentioned, Laidlaw, Gaider and others have said how she is an important part of the DA universe and her role isn't done in it yet. And Gaider has said how the DR is the biggest choice from Origins.

The question is whether or not they bring the Warden back with Morrigan?

lilmeezer wrote...
Running a Cousland male rogue (to check out the improvements made by Terra's mod) and got an interesting story  from the Ash Warrior Leader at Ostagar. I didn't get this story with my  Amell or Aeducan (supposedly you can't get the story if you are a  dwarf). Here it is from the wiki: The Legend of Luthias Dwarfson The most interesting parts of the story (besides the obvious Arthurian references) are that one of the main characters is an Avarr Chieftain  named Morrighan'nan.


I remember somebody bringing that up not long after Origins came out and Gaider said it was coincidence, that whoever wrote that story did so a long time before they had even really gotten far into the game's story. And that the whole name similarity was just a coincidence.

Modifié par Brockololly, 24 octobre 2010 - 05:35 .


#10820
Dave of Canada

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Brockololly wrote...

The question is whether or not they bring the Warden back with Morrigan?


I believe so. There would no reason for a Witch Hunt save if it wasn't for it, where either way she leaves alone.

#10821
Morrigans God son

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Dave of Canada wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

The question is whether or not they bring the Warden back with Morrigan?


I believe so. There would no reason for a Witch Hunt save if it wasn't for it, where either way she leaves alone.


Could just be for references. If BioWare did bring back the Warden & Morrigan, wouldn't the warden look really different, with the new art and such? Same with Morrigan.

#10822
Brockololly

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Morrigans God son wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

The question is whether or not they bring the Warden back with Morrigan?


I believe so. There would no reason for a Witch Hunt save if it wasn't for it, where either way she leaves alone.


Could just be for references. If BioWare did bring back the Warden & Morrigan, wouldn't the warden look really different, with the new art and such? Same with Morrigan.


Yeah, they supposedly totally redid the face morph system for DA2. So presumably you'd need to recreate your Warden's face should they bring the Warden back in DA3 or whenever. I really, really, really hope they don't mess around with existing character's faces too much with the new face morph system though. But presumably, we won't see Morrigan until DA3, so I guess it will be telling to see how Origins characters look in DA2 to see how the new face morph system works in recreating the old characters.

And yeah, I could envision a bunch of ways they merely reference the Warden without bringing them back with Morrigan- give him the ol' Viconia treatment. I just read The Stolen Throne again a while ago and it seems Gaider has a penchant for killing off characters off screen. Sure hope thats the not the case with Morrigan or the Warden.

But as we've gone over to death, bringing back Morrigan without the Warden sort of lessens any impact of bringing her back in the first place.

Modifié par Brockololly, 24 octobre 2010 - 06:09 .


#10823
Dave of Canada

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Brockololly wrote...

I really, really, really hope they don't mess around with existing character's faces too much with the new face morph system though. But presumably, we won't see Morrigan until DA3, so I guess it will be telling to see how Origins characters looks in DA2 to see how the new face morph system works in recreating the old characters.


Simple enough, create an armor that would be associated with the Warden and slap on a helmet.

:P

#10824
Guest_PureMethodActor_*

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Dave of Canada wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

I really, really, really hope they don't mess around with existing character's faces too much with the new face morph system though. But presumably, we won't see Morrigan until DA3, so I guess it will be telling to see how Origins characters looks in DA2 to see how the new face morph system works in recreating the old characters.


Simple enough, create an armor that would be associated with the Warden and slap on a helmet.

:P


There is much truth in this statement... Its been done in the past with games where a created protagonist appeared in a sequel with a hidden face. I could seriously see this being done with the Warden's face, or maybe a dark, obscuring hood for rogues and mages.

#10825
Brockololly

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PureMethodActor wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
Simple enough, create an armor that would be associated with the Warden and slap on a helmet.

:P


There is much truth in this statement... Its been done in the past with games where a created protagonist appeared in a sequel with a hidden face. I could seriously see this being done with the Warden's face, or maybe a dark, obscuring hood for rogues and mages.

Problem with doing something like that in my view is that it pretty much relegates the Warden to a worthless cameo at best. Its like bringing back the Warden with Morrigan but whats the point if its just in a generic appearance-less,  cameo?