A much belated response incoming, some of this goes back several pages. Lots of stuff of Brock's I needed to respond to. So, since we've been lacking epic posts of late, here you go:
In the spirit of keeping some semblance of positivity in the Morri thread, I'll try to keep my responses to the rant-related stuff from several pages back to a minimum. A warden/morri pic first:
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Oh, definitely. I loathe just about any and all companion face morphs. I don't mind messing around with hairstyles necessarily, but I can't find any that look that good for Morrigan besides her trademark look. I think its mostly because with any longer hair styles, the hair stays really stiff and doesn't move. Didn't they have the hair move in KOTOR and JE though? I hope they fix that for DA2.
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Yeah, while there are some noteworthy mods that completely redo character appearances, once you do that (for me) they just aren't the same character anymore.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Oh yes- I'd love it if when the Warden came back from Mirror World, maybe he's treated as a "Warden gone rogue" since most would treat Morrigan as a dangerous apostate- I think in the WH codex for the Orlesian it even mentions that Seneschal Garavel thinks Morrigan should be killed, while others think she should be brought in alive. Throw in what you did with the Architect or Amaranthine and I'd just love to see the Warden have to account for his actions to higher ups at Weisshaupt. Or having the Warden just as much of a fugitive as Morrigan. So many cool ideas, most likely to only be crushed under the boot of some NEW EPIC HERO! for DA3. Meh.
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Someone needs to gather any warden-related quotes that Gaider and co have given out and see if any definite conclusions can be drawn. I'm not convinced the Grey Wardens story is over after DA:O. As you say, lots of potential for future plotlines and there's enough wiggle room to bring all wardens back into the picture.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
And with a Grey Warden companion in DA2, its likely, if that trailer is anything, that Hawke goes into the Deep Roads at some point. So maybe like that DA Journey's flash game, you run into a Warden going on their Calling down there and can have them as a temporary companion maybe. Or maybe a Warden has been tasked with investigating Morrigan/Flemeth again and runs into Hawke since he seems to have some interaction with Flemeth. Definitely lots of opportunities to have a Warden come into play and spread news of the Hero of Ferelden should they want to.
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I believe one of the devs said we won't be going underground in DA2 - maybe Gaider. Something was said in regards to players not visiting any underground dwarven cities iirc.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, Gaider did mention the framed narrative helping pace things in that regard. But you're right- its just the inconsistent manner in which you can interact with companions that makes it more jarring. So in one area you can click on them and you'll get a full blown cinematic, yet other areas they give a generic bark. Meh. I liked Origins because it was consistent throughout- you click on someone, you knew it would zoom down into the face to face view.
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Yep, having such a defined split in character interaction just makes the whole thing seem superficial to me, one of the several factors as to why Shepard didn't really seem that close to any of his squad in ME.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Exactly- and even sometimes, I'd like to start conversation in a combat area- it helped break up things a bit if you couldn't get back to camp. But they already started this sort of "dialogue area" thing in ME2, even with combat, how you can't even unholster your weapon in ME2 in certain areas- so you always knew when combat was coming because you'd magically unholster your gun and see chest high walls everywhere.
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A definite yes to being able to instigate conversations anywhere. ME2 was just littered with such tell tale signs, that lack of freedom oversimplifies things for me, the gun holstering thing certainly gave you an instant visual cue that you were about to get attacked.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, I just find it funny when people like to gang up on Morrigan for seemingly using the Warden just to do the DR and yet they think Flemeth is some Saint because she seemingly saved the Warden and Alistair no strings attached at Ostagar. Sure she made Morrigan come with them, but I mean, given her nature, I sort of doubt thats all Flemeth did in saving them. I don't know what exactly, but I doubt it was just the DR considering it would seem taht Morrigan sort of goes rogue with whatever plans Flemeth may have had with the DR. I just don't get how people can trust Flemeth more than Morrigan. Its fine if you don't trust Morrigan, as she doesn't give you much to go on most times, especially if you're nasty to her. But as I've said before, Flemeth almost never gives you any answer to anything, only talking in vague abstractions. And you trust that?
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Face value again Brock, Flemeth is a "nice, batty old lady" who saved us and her hellspawn child clearly must be stopped. Again, Gaider stepped in and commented that maybe Flemeth had a reason for appearing as she did to the GW so I believe Flemeth had all her bases covered when she sent Morrigan along.
When you look at how Flemeth weaves the concept of inevitability into so much of her dialogue, why would she put everything on Morrigan. Perhaps Morrigan was to serve as a distraction, I liked Esbatty's idea that even a US warden might be falling prey to her scheme.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Exactly- did the Cerberus but seem a bit forced in ME2? Sure. But did you just say screw it and stop playing? No- it was the PLOT. Doesn't mean you can't disagree with how the plot goes, but its there to move things along and make it interesting, not indulge in anyone's Cat Herding Retired Warden fantasies.
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Sure, but the Cerberus thing was plausible given the context, as is using the coming change to tie in living wardens. Likewise US wardens - I'm not convinced that the US is all it appears to be considering the one who set you on that course (Flemeth) told you far less than she's privy to when it comes to wardens and the blight, a point underlined With the vague connection made between the Blight & Flemeth in WH.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Ha- yeah, its like if I skip a chapter in a book, well, the events in that chapter clearly never happened, right? Nevermind the fact that Laidlaw has said that Awakening does matter as does WH given the flags and all.
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My point exactly.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Exactly Terra. And thats part of the beauty of the silent PC too- you're afforded a blank slate to build up that backstory if you want. So sure, the game isn't going to recognize that my Warden was angsty and brooding while in Amaranthine because he'd have rather been out searching for Morrigan, but with the silent PC, I can have him sounding in my head such a way that thats reflected in his voice and I can justify his actions via that backstory. But at the end of the day, its just the plot flags that are left. So if the Warden comes back into action, well, you'll just have to RP it that your bakery was shut down by the Ferelden Health Inspector after finding Tainted Muffins , thus providing you with a newfound vigor to kill darkspawn.
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Exactly, as you say that is just one of many factors that make the silent PC so appealing. The thing with a silent PC is the benefits aren't necessarily immediately apparent to the untrained eye. Whereas with a voiced PC, you have the immediate impact at the expense of player freedom.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
I guess you could argue whether BioWare will put in the leg work to make it successful, especially given how ME2 handled things. But I have no reason to believe that BioWare won't follow through- considering how Gaider has said the DR is the most important choice in Origins and how surely BioWare knows that the demand is there to see this plot thread carroed through- and I would guess this is suported via their telemetry too. Hell, if nothing else, the Bros probably saw the DR as a chance to "HaV hot SexxxoRZ wit Dat Wich DURRRR!"
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You certainly could make such a case, which will lead back to my original point that *if* every player choice automatically results in taking the nearest available exit/easiest way out then there was really no choice to begin with and the entire concept of meaningful no-canon within this series is called into question.
And I would *really* like to see their telemetry data.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Absolutely- unless DA2 kills the franchise, if DA3 comes and Morrigan returns in such a way that marginalizes the Wardens that were involved with her, people will be pissed, rightly so. I mean, just look at the people upset by Witch Hunt's botched ending. BioWare is building this up to something and so they have to provide the pay off eventually- the US people had their payoff in Origins- for those that did the DR, we're all still waiting to see the consequences there.
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Couldn't agree more and WH was a relatively small scale endeavour, for the game that concludes Morrigan's arc the forums will be ablaze if it's underwhelming.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Another reason why PC is superior...*dons flame suit* Seriously, I can't believe it takes MS that long to get the patch out- insane.
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Haha, I'll always have fond memories of my first playthrough on the console version, but after switching to PC and becoming aware of the sheer quantity of missing/bugged/cut material there's really no contest anymore - I literally couldn't go back now. Mods will always extend and cement the lifespan of a game like this.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Certainly the writers could find ways to conclude Morrigan's story without the Wardens, but given how they've set things up to this point and by the end of WH, it would be like fitting a square peg in a round hole- it wouldn't fit and would be glaringly out of place.
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Well there you go, with WH BioWare just heaped a fresh batch of plot flags onto a living warden and to have the consequences of those decision affect anyone but the warden would be illogical imo.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Oh god- yeah, isn't QA generally one of the first cuts in a game thats getting rushed along? Given how atrocious Awakening was, I am very much concerned about this for DA2. Although maybe since its a smaller game they'll have less to bug check, who knows.
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Well, ME2 was relatively bug free but only because there's very little to go wrong with the proven tech (Unreal) and the most complex decisions come down to choosing between the red or blue branches. I really hope that we don't have incredibly obvious bugs like Morri's shapeshifting slipping through the net.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Right, WH is a fine ending if thats all that ever came of Morrigan. But the devs have said many times that Morrigan's story is not over and thats whats worrying- having Morrigan return but no trace of the Warden. So I'm certainly expecting allusions or references to Morrigan and the Warden in DA2, but anything beyond that I really hope they save for some future game where they can more fully focus on it.
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Absolutely, I think I read somewhere that Claudia wasn't scheduled to do any work for DA2, so I'm not too concerned on that front. Limiting it to references will certainly make my DA2 playthrough more enjoyable.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, the ME2 squadmates might as well be AI bots when you're out and about. And they feel so static staying on the ship all the time, apparently just so we can have Shep sit down and move aorund in the conversations because clearly thats sooooo cinematic, limiting all conversations to one dinky area.
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Yep, as I touched upon earlier if they just respond in a generic way (if at all) then it works against everything you've tried to accomplish during your interactions with them.
[quote]MoSa09 wrote...
You might hate this, but that is what i expect. As the story of DA 2 is told in retrosperspective by Hawke's friends, i expect the game to zoom out of the game after each chapter, going back to the Narrator and Cassandra, summarizing the events and moving on the next chapter. While we may not get a mission complete screen, DA 2 will have something alike.
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Oh great, so we get to see Varric sat on the chair instead of the Illusive Man this time around. *sigh*
[quote]MoSa09 wrote...
Morrigan is just a much disputed character. I know a few people whom i consider to be rather sane and open-minded who try to sell me a plot arc involving her in DA 3 cannot be. To a certain degree, i can understand such a jealous point. While Morrigan, one of the 4 LI, seems to feature a prominent role in the whole franchise, their Li, while getting a better ending, are tossed aside for future games. I have no doubts the Alistair fan girls would want him to play an important part in future games as well. And at the moment, i can't see that happen. So, from that point of view, i can see and understand their anger, and they have my support for their claim.
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The problem is that in your example you'd be looking at it solely from a romance perspective. Morrigan's greater plot arc is not exclusive to a male who romanced her, the warden is involved in the Flemeth/Morrigan plot regardless of who their LI is. It's exactly as I pointed out earlier (some pages back now), whoever your LI is doesn't limit where the plot can go. Shepard had new romance interests in ME2, it doesn't mean it invalidates the old ones.
And if you do want to look at it solely from a romance perspective, non-Morrigan romancers were rewarded in both Origins & Awakening while Morri romancers got nothing. There were no letters/kisses from Morri in Awakening, and the slide we did get was and still is bugged (as was the one in Origins). Yes, only male romancers can go through the Eluvian with her (as it should be, imo), there's your (belated) romance closure, but the greater plot can still be applied equally to all wardens through the various WH endings - there is setup there and in Awakening that applies to all wardens and possibly ties them into the coming "change".
Whenever the issue of Morrigan's story being continued comes up, people immediately answer with ZOMG, my warden hates teh Morrigan, but I highly doubt the entire game would be solely based on Morrigan, it'd be larger in scale and Morri would be one component of the overall plot, thus as Brock stated, the plot sets you on the path where your character might happen upon Morrigan.
Morrigan's return isn't about continuing the romance - as it ends in WH, she's either in love with the warden or she isn't, the romance is separate from her greater plot (even if it does entwine beautifully with the Origins plotline ingame). What it is about however is concluding her story in a meaningful way, one which should include the warden in some capacity where appropriate if you want her to retain some real depth of character. As I've stated before, the warden doesn't have to be the protagonist, but they should definitely be present (for at least one particular ending) or BioWare will have once again flaunted a bunch of setup material (like how the DR and Origins epilogue were pointing towards Orlais) and then decided to do something else. Granted there are no guarantees but the almost bait and switch approach to plot development quickly becomes tiresome.
[quote]MoSa09 wrote...
I guess the writers idea of being tricky and clever didn't pay off here. Its the same with what Brock is constantly talking about. If they would not have made all companions except Morrigan ready to die throughout the game, they would not have so much trouble bringing them back in a meaningful way. Having so many different endings is the same. They wanted to provide too many options, and now there is no way out there without aliennating someone. Choice and options are a good thing for an rpg, but if you intend to make a second game connected to the first one, you should limit these options, and they failed here i think.
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I completely agree, killing off the companions by and large serves very little purpose except perhaps to indulge the fantasies of a very small fraction of the player base and completely screw everyone over as the series moves forwards. That said, if there were sufficient telemetry data to support it, would they consider ignoring companion deaths and bringing them back anyway?
[quote]MoSa09 wrote...
Hate to play the devils advocate here, but given their recent track record with importing decisions, i would not bet these certain flags mean something important. For all we know and experienced, they could only result in Morrigan giving a slightly different line of dialogue in DA 3, nothing more. I would love it to be different, but for now, nothing indicates there plot flags can be taken as proof that the Warden will be back, sadly.
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Certainly true on the importing decisions front, but you could apply this to any flag in the game or its expansions. If they pull a ME2 affair this once again simply demonstrates the entire problem with the no-canon approach- by always taking the easiest way out/lowest common denominator, then there may as well not have been a choice in the first place. It also renders everything post-Origins to at most a codex entry/slight dialogue variance, which hardly provides a choice driven game world imo.
For now I'd prefer to hope that BioWare can actually pull something decent off and learn from past mistakes as we move forwards. While there are no guarantees, BioWare did go back and fix all the WH bugs (with the specific purpose that those flags were meant to be important), the most important being that final save so I'm thinking it might be leading somewhere given how the devs do touch upon the possibility of the warden returning.
[quote]MoSa09 wrote...
Thoese rules are new to me. Back in November last year, when it all started, all we had to do was to spend a few hours of the day sharing our grief and waiting for Gaider to come in, telling us he's surprised and bewildered by our reaction". Enduring that was part on the joining, and i've done my share...
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Hahaha, the rules have changed with the times
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
How they handle the DR and the OGB will really show to me how serious BioWare is with regards to having this "no canon" approach actually mean anything. The easy way is to definitely not have the OGB result in much of anything. Just take the ME2 route like with Wrex and if you didn't have the OGB, just have some other character fill that role.
But thats so incredibly weak if they did go that route. Given that the DR is the one big huge choice from Origins, I'd hope they can make it the one choice where you actually see a fair bit of divergence. To have it result in just some slightly different epilogue slides would really sour much of the fact that your choices are supposed to mean something in DA.
I'd hope that the presence of absence of the OGB possibly affects the final result of whatever it is Morrigan has planned- so if you didn't do the DR, maybe its more likely that Morrigan fails and Flemeth succeeds or something like that.
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Yeah, I'm in the same boat as Brock on this issue, how this is handled is a major factor in my continued interest in the series and will serve to determine in my mind whether protagonist jumping can work well in tandem with recurring characters. I'll put some faith in Gaider & the devs and hope all these hints are working toward a logical & meaningful resolution down the line.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Could be- it will be interesting to see how much of Flemeth's plans we're able to uncover in DA2 or if we'll only see her plans in motion but be left in the dark as to her motivations. And then of course how her plans and Hawke's involvemnet in them may relate to Morrigan and the Warden returning. All I know is that my first playthrough, I'll probably not be roleplaying so much as just trying to not to do anything to screw over Morrigan.
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Hah, I'll go out on a limb and guess that Flemeth will task Hawke with destroying all Eluvians during the course of DA2. I do hope that DA2 moves the Flemeth side of things along somewhat and (hopefully) gives some answers.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Random Morrigan question: Morrigan's favorite board game?
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It has to be chess.
[quote]Esbatty wrote...
You wake up from what could've been a horrid nightmare to her beautiful face. Ah, it was a horrible dream. Then she tells you the truth and you're thrust into a destiny you didn't want or ask for. But hey she gets pawned off on your thanks to her Mother's insistence, so now you've got all the time you need to get to know her.
But oh f*ck, Alistair starts mouthing off at her. Ain't that just like a buddy to codblock you?
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Heh, for me part of the role as leader is managing the squabbles between party members whilst building a rapport with them as individuals. That said Ali does tread on thin ice when he starts slagging off Morrigan to a warden who has fully romanced her. Still, dealing with a bit of strife during play makes for an amusing time for the warden.
[quote]Esbatty wrote...
As for the whole Alistair/Morrigan deal. He is an ex-Templar trainee and she is an Apostate Mage. He is more than a bit naive to some of the ways of the world and she is an inverted version of that.
They're as much alike as different and thus it is natural that they clash. They both have snark and sarcasm at the ready, but he likes being lead and being part of something. She likes her freedom and knows she is part of something big that is going down. He wants adventure and to live his life, while Morrigan wants to see the world before it changes entirely.
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To an extent both are relative innocents, but in different aspects of life which makes for an interesting group dynamic at the very least.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
And then I replied back asking along the lines of the whole 'no canon' aspect of things in so far as Morrigan and the OGB:
[quote]Mike Laidlaw wrote...
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
[quote]Mike Laidlaw wrote...
In an example like this, a scene that can only be viewed by human noble females who have successfully had a romance with alistair AND who chose the ritual represents a reasonably small portion of the audience. Therefore, the effort could be better spent on a scene that, say, 90% of people will see instead of 10%.[/quote]
Ok, I understand that logic. Fair enough.
But, with the whole "no canon" approach, isn't this sort of thing going to be problematic as the series goes along if you're importing choices? In that, if my Warden did the DR and made the Old God Baby with Morrigan while some other Warden went the Ultimate Sacrifice route, those are 2 very disparate outcomes. So would the resources be bothered to be put into continuing the DR plot with OGB amounting to more than a cameo or codex entry, given that some percentage of people might not have that because they did the US?
Its scenes like that wedding one that should be the unique reward for those people that made those choices to get to that point. But you guys likely have a good idea going forward as to what choices were most commonly made,so I guess that would help in determining how many resources to allocate to things going forward with the whole "no canon" approach.
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Yep, we do. We also know what kinds of things were memorable, and stuck with people. I suspect there will be things in DA II that you would never have expected to see us reference, and things that you'll wonder why we didn't reference them.
There are always ways to make something into a big deal, if we choose to. Not everything can be, for reasons we have outlined, but for something like Morrigan, of course we'd be prepared to account for differences. For other things we can only do references, and other things must fall by the wayside. Rest assured that these are artistic choices, usually made to support the themes of the game in development, though a few are there because they damn well make us chuckle.
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It'll be interesting to see just how much continuity they have with Morrigan and the OGB and such going forward.
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Once again, I've every confidence that BioWare will seek to account for differences in the concept stages, but whether this will actually make it through to production and into the final game is another matter. I just cast my mind back to scenes like those illustrated in Aimo's comic which imo does a lot to underline Morrigan's emotions in the context of the DR. As a direct result of that cut it really screws up a lot of the development the player had experienced up till that point due to the one-size-fits-all approach. That happened within the space of one game, so like you Brock, I suppose the proof will be in the pudding come DA3 but cut corners and minor cameos likely won't cut it for me.
I also wonder - if all of BioWare's assumptions on what was "popular" are based on telemetry and various forums, what of those who don't play online or never completed the game (supposedly the majority) - how do these play into shaping the future of DA resource management.
[quote]Lord_Anthonior wrote...
If there were a "Morrigan Players United" I would nominate Brock to be the ambassador with the developers. He was certainly replied for his comments and is clearly more interested in Morrigan than any other characters.{smilie}
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Brock is basically the spokesperson for the Morri fandom, it's uncanny how accurately his posts @ the devs reflect the current vibe.
[quote]Esbatty wrote...
While its Morrigan-less, I feel DA2 will expound on the "Witch of the Wilds" fact from fiction seeing that army of apostate witches that are garbbed like Sacred Ashes Morrigan. For all we know we actually meet one or more of Morrigan's sisters/Flemeth's daughters in DA2. While not as good as actually having Morrigan in game, her absence is kind of explained thanks to Witch Hunt in her whole "time to gather power" speech.
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I've no problem with Morrigan not being in DA2, it's actually preferable and helps build suspense while developing the Flemeth angle. This does however almost necessitate DA3 featuring Morrigan as her continued absence would cause the thread to lose its momentum and significance in ongoing events. It's all very well trying to be clever avoiding the "obvious" plot threads to continue, but they need to be tackled while the player still has a vested interest in the series and more you stretch it, the more jaded the player's view gets.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, I'm not worried that Morrigan won't show up in the future. She will. Like you mentioned, Laidlaw, Gaider and others have said how she is an important part of the DA universe and her role isn't done in it yet. And Gaider has said how the DR is the biggest choice from Origins.
The question is whether or not they bring the Warden back with Morrigan?
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That, Brock is the kind of question that we will bandy around for several months till DA3 gets announced and Gaider drops in to deliver another myopic bombshell. On a more serious note I doubt the WH flags would exist if they don't intend to do something with it and we need those scraps of hope!
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
And yeah, I could envision a bunch of ways they merely reference the Warden without bringing them back with Morrigan- give him the ol' Viconia treatment.
I just read The Stolen Throne again a while ago and it seems Gaider has a penchant for killing off characters off screen. Sure hope thats the not the case with Morrigan or the Warden.
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And then acting surprised at the audience's displeasure with said event. Whilst codexing the Warden may be a fitting homage to Viconia given the parallels, I'm hoping we are moving away from plot hammer moments as we move forwards.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Problem with doing something like that in my view is that it pretty much relegates the Warden to a worthless cameo at best. Its like bringing back the Warden with Morrigan but whats the point if its just in a generic appearance-less, cameo?
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Something like kitting out the warden in full armour & helm would be what I'd consider to be a "absolute minimal pass" for the warden's reappearance in the future. ie: I'd be pleased the choices were recognised yet underwhelmed by BioWare's implementation. As you say, this approach would likely render the warden to a cameo and he/she is a silent PC so there's an additional hurdle to overcome if they are to do anything of import in DA3.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
I've got to get New Vegas as most of the DA2 stuff just bums me out. The trailer today just seemed like some action movie, not DA. Oh well.
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Yeah, I saw lots of cinematic... stuff and nothing of real pertinence to the game at large tbh.
[quote]TheBlackBaron wrote...
I wouldn't say it's totally FUBAR - it's really just Witch Hunt (what else could Morrigan fans expect?).
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Couldn't agree more. I've yet to see anything Morri-related from BioWare that didn't ship with an attached bug or oversight of some kind.
[quote]Esbatty wrote...
I find Isabella's new looks to be a massive improvement over Pearl Isabella. To me she is very attractive so I don't get people's "she's not even that good looking", everyone has different tastes so I say bah to the idea that she lacks any appeal.
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Isabela was a relatively forgettable character in DA:O for me, and part of that was because her face morph was... lacking she didn't really stand apart from many other generic looking npcs. Therefore, with the bar set so low, DA2 really couldn't fail to improve upon it tbh.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
And you can see that sort of Uncanny Valley look in all of the characters so far- from Carver's Jay Leno chin, to Cassandra's jaw and buggy eyes, to Bethany's dead zombie eyes, to Varric acromegaly head, to Isabela's scrunched up face. Never mind the fact thateveryone seems to be sporting a massive underbite when speaking too.
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In all honesty, the DA:O system needed work - it was serviceable enough, but then again so does this new system.
[quote]Esbatty wrote...
So long as they get things sorted out by the time DA3 or whenever Morrigan AND the Warden returns, I'll be a happy camper
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Hmmm, after reading recent posts I have serious concerns about Morri retaining anything close to her original facial appearance. As for the warden, I'm resigned to the fact that it'll likely be a complete rebuild if he/she returns in any meaningful way.
[quote]Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...
Although I do kind of like the new art direction scenery and building wise. I am hating the look of the characters and darkspawn. Like none of the characters have looked very good except maybe the default male Hawke.
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I feel the same. Aesthetically, the architecture in particular is looking to be a improvement but the characters themselves, aside from the default Hawke still leave something to be desired.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, I don't think they'd jump way far ahead necessarily after DA2, as it seems at least that DA2 sort of will end on a bit of a cliffhanger at least in terms of the world changing with the Chantry crumbling and world on the brink of war. Unless they gloss over that stuff, I'd think DA2 sets the stage for Morrigan to return (with the Warden of course!) and to sort of knock down the sandcastle and let everything hit the fan in DA3. Maybe just have DA3 be a couple years after DA2 or maybe even depending on who the PC is, you could have it start already during the events of DA2, just from the perspective of the Warden or whoever.
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It does seem the right time for that thread to kick into high gear so yeah, I doubt we'll see any major timeline jumps if BioWare want to make good use of this "brink of war" setup they have at the end of DA2.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, the landscapes do seem a bit more epic, and the lighting looks to be improved. But the characters and just how angular and jagged everything is really turns me off to the art style. It just seems too distant to what they established in Origins. As for how Morrigan would look in it, well, I guess we'll maybe have an idea if we see any other companions from Origins show up in DA2- will they get a total retcon like Isabela or stay the same?
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Well I think we've hit another snag in BW's rampant retconning tbh. In my mind, if a returning character doesn't have "something" that allows a fan to immediately discern "Hey, that's Isabela" (based on knowledge from DA:O) without prompting then you've got a problem. That said, I wasn't impressed with Isabela's original facemorph and since she's presumably getting upgraded from a minor character you can potentially justify it I suppose.
[quote]Axekix wrote...
Also, to christen my newly opened deviant page, I drew a quick a Morrigan/DR pin-up sketch!
*NSFW*
http://axekix.devian...itual-184279188[/quote]
Nice work
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Ugh...I can see it now, we'll have a new hot rod samurai Morrigan cameo with her voice recasted with some other voice actor cause they couldn't get Claudia Black back...
[/quote]
BioWare would have to be a particular brand of insane to make that mistake Brock. Lack of VO consistency with major recurring characters in sequels is generally a pretty major issue in my experience and changes are very rarely well-received.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
But seriously, I don't understand why you revamp or completely re-do your face morph system such that its impossible to make existing characters look the same. Can you imagine ME2 where they totally change what Garrus and all the Turians look like and give them all horns? Ugh...given my dislike for the new art style and how it looks in-game I just hope Morrigan doesn't have anything to do with DA2 and that by the time she comes back into the picture, BioWare has their artistic vision/technology sorted out...ugh.
[/quote]
I'd have thought they've have tried to include some measure of support for the legacy system, or at least convert them- like I said earlier if fans aren't able to recognise and pick out the returning characters on sight then what's the point... All this talk of impossibilities regarding faces is putting me in a negative frame of mind once again...
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
I could rant right now I think, but I'll just say that from the gameplay changes to the ME style presentation to the shorter length to the hot rod samurai art style- DA2 doesn't seem like a sequel, it feels like a reboot.
[/quote]
I read that DA2 will adopt a Cerberus network style approach to its DLC content. Across the board, it seems that much is being brought in line with that fabled work, for better or worse.
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
[quote]Zjarcal wrote...
If you guys actually splitted those massive posts into regular posts, you'd be the largest thread around!
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Haha- no, I believe in fully realized massive posts loaded with content- no chopping them down to release them in pay as you go DLC installments:D
[/quote]
Damn right!
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
[/quote]
'Tis a nice pic
[quote]ximena wrote...
Plus it's Morrigan art. Really hard not to
click. I remember being nagged at by a close friend who is a DW reader
for me uploading a page with a mature tag while she was at uni.
Hahahaha.
Anyway. (Just because this is one of my favorite panels in DW)
Hurrhurr. Plus to those who have been waiting for the new pages, it should be done before Monday comes.
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New pages are always appreciated [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angel.png[/smilie]
Modifié par Terra_Ex, 29 octobre 2010 - 05:34 .
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