Aller au contenu

Photo

THE Morrigan Discussion and Research Thread *Infested with Bugs Yet Again!*


16179 réponses à ce sujet

#1076
blademaster7

blademaster7
  • Members
  • 1 596 messages
Two lines need to be linked to your approval IMO.

First one is the "Finally decided to betray me, have you?"

This is right after she anounnces her presence. It makes no sense whatsoever for a friend/lover to say that. She hasn't said anything yet.

This line should only be available if her approval is neutral or hostile. (<25)

Second line." I should have killed you long ago."

Same as above. Some people may feel the need to say it regardless of approval, but the "long ago" part just doesn't seem right. It's like  saying "I should have killed you when i loved you". No logic in that.


There is also the matter of Morrigan asking her lover to convince Alistair/Loghain. For me, that is the most disturbing tning about the DR. I'm sure you agree.

Here's my suggestions.

1. Remove it completely. If Morrigan is in love with the player and he turns her down, she walks out and leaves. No send me to another man BS.

2. Leave it as it is... but... if the player agrees to convice either Loghain or Alistair, the decision should come with a ROMANCE_CUT_OFF flag. Maybe a -100 approval drop as well.


Those are not necessary. Just my opinions. It's up to you. ;)

Modifié par blademaster7, 22 avril 2010 - 02:54 .


#1077
KnightofPhoenix

KnightofPhoenix
  • Members
  • 21 527 messages

Nonvita wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

This is a modded Morrigan, no? If so, it's fake and not as beautiful as the original ;)


Says the man who posted a modded Morrigan pic up-page.


What are you talking about? This isn't modded...is it?

Posted Image

#1078
Nonvita

Nonvita
  • Members
  • 2 165 messages
Maybe it's just the lighting but it looked exactly like one of the face mods.

Anyway, as a female I find her vanilla face too exaggerated for my tastes. Her features are just unrealistic imo. And changing a face morph doesn't necessarily make someone a different character--Morrigan's in-game appearance looks nothing like her concept appearance, and I prefer the concept appearance. It's not about changing the character, it's just about a different interpretation of the same character.

But ah well, didn't mean to invade your lovely thread with horribly terrifying images of fake Morrigan. Shan't happen again.


And Terra_Ex, I love you for working with Charsen an Ej. Thoughtful modders like you are such a treasure. :wub:

#1079
KnightofPhoenix

KnightofPhoenix
  • Members
  • 21 527 messages

Nonvita wrote...

Maybe it's just the lighting but it looked exactly like one of the face mods.

Anyway, as a female I find her vanilla face too exaggerated for my tastes. Her features are just unrealistic imo. And changing a face morph doesn't necessarily make someone a different character--Morrigan's in-game appearance looks nothing like her concept appearance, and I prefer the concept appearance. It's not about changing the character, it's just about a different interpretation of the same character.

But ah well, didn't mean to invade your lovely thread with horribly terrifying images of fake Morrigan. Shan't happen again.


I was just kidding. Anything you post here is more than acceptable Posted Image
And if the pic I posted is indeed modded, that means I can tolerate a few modifications....only a few Posted Image 

#1080
soignee

soignee
  • Members
  • 5 035 messages
Have some IRL Morrigans! Ladies on the internets dress up as them then post it on their deviant art account.

One here and another here.

#1081
KnightofPhoenix

KnightofPhoenix
  • Members
  • 21 527 messages

soignee wrote...

Have some IRL Morrigans! Ladies on the internets dress up as them then post it on their deviant art account.

One here and another here.


No yellow eyes, no Morrigan.

#1082
Herr Uhl

Herr Uhl
  • Members
  • 13 465 messages

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

soignee wrote...

Have some IRL Morrigans! Ladies on the internets dress up as them then post it on their deviant art account.

One here and another here.


No yellow eyes, no Morrigan.


We need Ejoslin to do it.

#1083
soignee

soignee
  • Members
  • 5 035 messages

Herr Uhl wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

soignee wrote...

Have some IRL Morrigans! Ladies on the internets dress up as them then post it on their deviant art account.

One here and another here.


No yellow eyes, no Morrigan.


We need Ejoslin to do it.


This man speaks the truth.

#1084
blademaster7

blademaster7
  • Members
  • 1 596 messages
That's not modded...



I just checked. Might as well take a few screenshots from the sex scene. We need those... right?




#1085
KnightofPhoenix

KnightofPhoenix
  • Members
  • 21 527 messages

blademaster7 wrote...

That's not modded...

I just checked. Might as well take a few screenshots from the sex scene. We need those... right?


I knew it. My eyes cannot make mistakes when it comes to sweet beautiful Morrigan.

#1086
Nonvita

Nonvita
  • Members
  • 2 165 messages

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

That's not modded...

I just checked. Might as well take a few screenshots from the sex scene. We need those... right?


I knew it. My eyes cannot make mistakes when it comes to sweet beautiful Morrigan.


Well, everyone looks better in dim lighting.



OH GOD DON'T HURT ME. You know I love you guys!

#1087
Shade of Wolf

Shade of Wolf
  • Members
  • 426 messages

Master Shiori wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

What I also hate is that throughout the game you can't ask Morrigan what she and Flemeth are really up to, especially knowing that it actually involves your PC. I think I suspected this half the time during my first playthrough. There are party banters that give you clues, some of your teammates talk to you about it, and most importantly when Morrigan mentions that you will both regret loving each other in the end you don’t even get the option to ask why. And also to add, why can’t the PC read the two books that Morrigan wants before giving them to her. The developers really placed us up for a trap and I hope this doesn’t happen again in DA2.
 
I felt the same way in Awakening when I wasn’t able to ask the Architect more questions about him and his plans before making my decision whether to kill him or not.


True. The developers seem to have gone out of their way to make both Flemeth and Morrigan as mysterious as possible.

Even with what little information we have gathered during the game, we can't really seem to separate the fact from fiction, the truth from lies.

Recently I've gone through all the banter Morrigan has with other companions and found something curious. No matter who she's talking to or what subject is being discussed, Morrigan always finds a way to avoid revealing anything about herself or her views.

A good example is her discussion with Leliana regarding the Maker. When asked if she believes in the Maker, Morrigan will reply that she does not, but will never actually explain what she does believe in. She could be easily mistaken for an atheist if she didnt have an interest in preserving the Old God's soul.

The more I think about both Flemeth and Morrigan in DA:O, the more I'm convinced that the devs have an important story planned for both of them and wanted to keep them as mysterious as possible to avoid leaking any spoilers.



I got the impression that Morrigan was an atheist (woot) but then I was very confused, because she was in awe of Andraste's Ashes. Are the Old Gods considered the same as the Maker?

#1088
KnightofPhoenix

KnightofPhoenix
  • Members
  • 21 527 messages

Shade of Wolf wrote...
I got the impression that Morrigan was an atheist (woot) but then I was very confused, because she was in awe of Andraste's Ashes. Are the Old Gods considered the same as the Maker?


That was sarcasm.

#1089
Shade of Wolf

Shade of Wolf
  • Members
  • 426 messages

blademaster7 wrote...

Two lines need to be linked to your approval IMO.

First one is the "Finally decided to betray me, have you?"

This is right after she anounnces her presence. It makes no sense whatsoever for a friend/lover to say that. She hasn't said anything yet.

This line should only be available if her approval is neutral or hostile. (<25)

Second line." I should have killed you long ago."

Same as above. Some people may feel the need to say it regardless of approval, but the "long ago" part just doesn't seem right. It's like  saying "I should have killed you when i loved you". No logic in that.


There is also the matter of Morrigan asking her lover to convince Alistair/Loghain. For me, that is the most disturbing tning about the DR. I'm sure you agree.

Here's my suggestions.

1. Remove it completely. If Morrigan is in love with the player and he turns her down, she walks out and leaves. No send me to another man BS.

2. Leave it as it is... but... if the player agrees to convice either Loghain or Alistair, the decision should come with a ROMANCE_CUT_OFF flag. Maybe a -100 approval drop as well.


Those are not necessary. Just my opinions. It's up to you. ;)

i like these things, the first for comic relief if nothing else, although it strikes me odd that Morrigan would consider Loghain/Alistair when turned down by her love!
Maybe the whole DR should only have been available to Males she was in love with, or friendly Females?Posted Image

#1090
Barbarossa2010

Barbarossa2010
  • Members
  • 2 404 messages

Brockololly wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Ah yes, tragedy.  Certainly a genre I have little love for.  Imbibed way too deep from the Shakespearean well in a Jesuit school.  Goes a long way in explaining our differing interpretations.Posted Image I can certainly understand why others might have a differing opinion/interpretation than I from that perspective. 

And to think that DA:O was my first role player!  I am only glad that I found Mass Effect. Much closer in meeting my expectations in a long video game.  I was much more comfortable in Shepard's skin than the Grey Warden Barbarossa's (ironic, huh?), but I do wish that the role playing elements were a little more serious.  But I guess you can't have everything.


Tragedy is all well and good and surely a way to get someone's emotions into a story, but I think having tragedy in an RPG driven by player choice needs to  make sure that the tragedy itself is also driven by player choice, not just some static plot element. I don't know if I'd say Morrigan's romance is full on tragedy- bittersweet, heart breaking sure.



KnightofPhoenix wrote...
@ Brockolloly (do you mind if I call you Brolly BTW :P)


By all means!B)

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I agree on all your points. And yea my ideal scenario would be to give us the choice to either side with or against Morrigan, once her plan is made clear. But even if one stands against her, the romance must still be delt with. Would make it a lot more tragic  ../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png


That would be the "good" kind of tragedy though, I'd say- the kind that puts you between a rock and a hard place. Do you choose your lover and forsake your blood-bound duty as a Grey Warden or do you betray your love? In either case though the choice would be up to the player, not some preordained choice by the writers wielding their Plot Hammer.

I know Bioware has mentioned a zillion times how DA is not generic Tolkien-esque High Fantasy but that its "Dark Heroic Fantasy" but has anyone here read "Children of Hurin" by Tolkien? Man, you want to talk about a downer- you think the ending for Origins is depressing, Children of Hurin just busts out some old school Greek tragedy. Really good book if you like Tolkien, but goes to show that Tolkien could do the whole "dark fantasy" thing pretty good too. I really hope there isn't anything as grim as Children of Hurin in future DA games:crying:

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
Agree that ME is less emotionally engaging, well..other than that I'm
the savior of the universe complex I now have, but the epic edge more
than compensates.  We see that the same for sure.


Yeah I think the depth of the characters in DAO is what made me really enjoy the game as much as I did , while with ME2  I'd say the characters are better than ME1  ( love Mordin!) but still not as fleshed out as those in DAO.

But the thing with ME2 was that the loyalty missions really helped to get you to relate to the squadmates more. So that by the time you get to the Suicide mission, I cared about who lived and died (unlike my total apathy for the fates of those in Awakening).

And the suicide mission itself is totally emotionally engaging- I was on the edge of my seat totally geeking out during that, pure awesome sauce. I think thats the beauty of ME- it makes you feel like you're an intergalactic badass while DAO makes you feel like a badass one second but knees you in the balls to bring you back down the next.



Thanks for reminding me of Children of Hurin.  I think I was the first one in the bookstore on release day to pick up a copy (good cover art BTW).  I really enjoyed it as a true legacy of Tolkien, and it was seamless in the overall lore of Middle Earth, but Wow..you're right the ending was...just, Wow.  Not what I was expecting from his traditional high fantasy (normally love and loss - not gut wrenching tragedy) model.  I think the difference is that there is enough distance between you and the characters in CoH to feel the punch in the gut.  It was a completely unexpected tact from JRRT.

Yes, I give the Children of Hurin a 'Highly Recommended,' especially for Tolkien fans.

The kick in the balls is not a winning strategy for game stickiness for me.  Never underestimate the power of playing the "intergalactic badass" in a role playing game.  While I think the Tragedy lovers need their outlet to be sure, the traditional hero lovers need theirs as well.  It's really too bad that we can't have a western medieval RPG that buys-in to the traditional hero model.  (If there's one out there that doesn't suck, please let me know).  I personally think that RPGs are now large enough to be more populist in that respect.  I think it can be done without "dumbing down" the game for purists.  If it means jumping around in a sand box to accomodate a broad diversity of endings, fine.  But that is the only model that will work for sandboxing imo.  Those who want tradtional can have it and those who want tragedy can have theirs as well.  All tragedy with no resolution or closure won't work for the majority of players in my view. 

As it is, a great game (that was easily vying for favorite status with me) ended flat, bitter and sour for me as a player.  I know others loved it and I am glad many players got what they wanted out of the game, but the time investment was just too great to feel empty, and like a chump, at the end.  Just my take though.  Maybe that's why I like Shepard so much.

#1091
Shade of Wolf

Shade of Wolf
  • Members
  • 426 messages

Brockololly wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Ah yes, tragedy.  Certainly a genre I have little love for.  Imbibed way too deep from the Shakespearean well in a Jesuit school.  Goes a long way in explaining our differing interpretations.Posted Image I can certainly understand why others might have a differing opinion/interpretation than I from that perspective. 

And to think that DA:O was my first role player!  I am only glad that I found Mass Effect. Much closer in meeting my expectations in a long video game.  I was much more comfortable in Shepard's skin than the Grey Warden Barbarossa's (ironic, huh?), but I do wish that the role playing elements were a little more serious.  But I guess you can't have everything.


Tragedy is all well and good and surely a way to get someone's emotions into a story, but I think having tragedy in an RPG driven by player choice needs to  make sure that the tragedy itself is also driven by player choice, not just some static plot element. I don't know if I'd say Morrigan's romance is full on tragedy- bittersweet, heart breaking sure.



KnightofPhoenix wrote...
@ Brockolloly (do you mind if I call you Brolly BTW :P)


By all means!B)

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I agree on all your points. And yea my ideal scenario would be to give us the choice to either side with or against Morrigan, once her plan is made clear. But even if one stands against her, the romance must still be delt with. Would make it a lot more tragic  ../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png


That would be the "good" kind of tragedy though, I'd say- the kind that puts you between a rock and a hard place. Do you choose your lover and forsake your blood-bound duty as a Grey Warden or do you betray your love? In either case though the choice would be up to the player, not some preordained choice by the writers wielding their Plot Hammer.

I know Bioware has mentioned a zillion times how DA is not generic Tolkien-esque High Fantasy but that its "Dark Heroic Fantasy" but has anyone here read "Children of Hurin" by Tolkien? Man, you want to talk about a downer- you think the ending for Origins is depressing, Children of Hurin just busts out some old school Greek tragedy. Really good book if you like Tolkien, but goes to show that Tolkien could do the whole "dark fantasy" thing pretty good too. I really hope there isn't anything as grim as Children of Hurin in future DA games:crying:

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
Agree that ME is less emotionally engaging, well..other than that I'm
the savior of the universe complex I now have, but the epic edge more
than compensates.  We see that the same for sure.


Yeah I think the depth of the characters in DAO is what made me really enjoy the game as much as I did , while with ME2  I'd say the characters are better than ME1  ( love Mordin!) but still not as fleshed out as those in DAO.

But the thing with ME2 was that the loyalty missions really helped to get you to relate to the squadmates more. So that by the time you get to the Suicide mission, I cared about who lived and died (unlike my total apathy for the fates of those in Awakening).

And the suicide mission itself is totally emotionally engaging- I was on the edge of my seat totally geeking out during that, pure awesome sauce. I think thats the beauty of ME- it makes you feel like you're an intergalactic badass while DAO makes you feel like a badass one second but knees you in the balls to bring you back down the next.

Lol LOTR freak fan here, read the children of Húrin 3 times, and the Family of Húrin, not very sad compared to others in the Silmarillion and Unfininshed Tales, but still sad.
For some reason I've never classed Tolkien's books as 'Fantasy', let alone 'High Fantasy', but it definintely doesn't class as 'Dark Fantasy'................my head hurts..

#1092
Barbarossa2010

Barbarossa2010
  • Members
  • 2 404 messages

Shade of Wolf wrote...

Lol LOTR freak fan here, read the children of Húrin 3 times, and the Family of Húrin, not very sad compared to others in the Silmarillion and Unfininshed Tales, but still sad.
For some reason I've never classed Tolkien's books as 'Fantasy', let alone 'High Fantasy', but it definintely doesn't class as 'Dark Fantasy'................my head hurts..


Yeah, who the heck can truly classify?, but I think JRRT was a bit more of a traditionalist.  CoH was a shock to me, and yeah, I read everything that came prior.  Just wasn't expecting it from him.Posted Image

Good story though.

#1093
Swoo

Swoo
  • Members
  • 927 messages
I thought the same until I tried the Sacred Ashes mod to make them appear more like the CGI and it kind of stuck on me. 

Posted Image

blademaster7 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

This is a modded Morrigan, no? If so, it's fake and not as beautiful as the original ;)

Agreed. I don't understand why people use mods. Vanilla Morrigan is just fine... Maybe I'm saying it because the face model grew on me(as with all the characters really).



#1094
Count Viceroy

Count Viceroy
  • Members
  • 4 095 messages
I use the dragon age redesigned looks myself. Its based on the model morrigan was originally based on. Looks much better imo.

#1095
Brockololly

Brockololly
  • Members
  • 9 035 messages

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

That's not modded...

I just checked. Might as well take a few screenshots from the sex scene. We need those... right?


I knew it. My eyes cannot make mistakes when it comes to sweet beautiful Morrigan.


Its funny though- it seems like Morrigan went through quite a few changes before Origins came out.  In this video, from October 2008 skip ahead to about the 8:15
 mark and  see what Morrigan looked (and sounded like!) back then.

I rememeber back in the old forums probably around February 09 or so when Bioware released images of Morrigan's "changed" appearance and a bunch of people were complainig that her new look ( the one thats in Origins) was too sexed up. But I mean compare Morrigan's look in Origins and her look in the video above- definite improvement in my book, both with the face and the voice.

As for mods- I'll admit that some of the face mods for characters like Leliana or Morrigan are quite good but I never use them because IMO its just not Morrigan when you mess around with the face too much. Sure the character is the same, but alot of what I associate with Morrigan is her unique look- her yellowish eyes, her facial features, her eyeshadow, her hair style, all that.

Provided that Morrigan shows up in DA2 or a future DA game, it would be kind of cool to see her with her hair down, but then again given how it seems long hair in DA ends up being a bit stiff, maybe its better she keeps it how it is in Origins...

#1096
KnightofPhoenix

KnightofPhoenix
  • Members
  • 21 527 messages

Brockololly wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

That's not modded...

I just checked. Might as well take a few screenshots from the sex scene. We need those... right?


I knew it. My eyes cannot make mistakes when it comes to sweet beautiful Morrigan.


Its funny though- it seems like Morrigan went through quite a few changes before Origins came out.  In this video, from October 2008 skip ahead to about the 8:15
 mark and  see what Morrigan looked (and sounded like!) back then.


Wow, definately an improvement. The voice!!
Morrigan's defining characteristic (for me) is the voice! Love Claudia Black.

#1097
Cuddlezarro

Cuddlezarro
  • Members
  • 5 327 messages

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

That's not modded...

I just checked. Might as well take a few screenshots from the sex scene. We need those... right?


I knew it. My eyes cannot make mistakes when it comes to sweet beautiful Morrigan.


Its funny though- it seems like Morrigan went through quite a few changes before Origins came out.  In this video, from October 2008 skip ahead to about the 8:15
 mark and  see what Morrigan looked (and sounded like!) back then.


Wow, definately an improvement. The voice!!
Morrigan's defining characteristic (for me) is the voice! Love Claudia Black.


ditto

Claudia blacks voice alone makes morrigan awesome

#1098
Brockololly

Brockololly
  • Members
  • 9 035 messages

Swoo wrote...

I thought the same until I tried the Sacred Ashes mod to make them appear more like the CGI and it kind of stuck on me. 

Posted Image


Yeah....hmmm... lets just say that if Morrigan looked like that in the vanilla game, my Cousland would be shacking up with Leliana. Obviously with mods you can do whatever you want, but too often and I think especially with the Morrigan ones, they end up really messing around with the proportions on the face  and you get something kind of goofy looking like above, or you end up with a generic pretty face. Whatever floats your boat, right?

What I like about her vanilla version in Origins is that its unique and kind of exotic looking without being too generic or too odd, like the one above, IMO.

Modifié par Brockololly, 22 avril 2010 - 05:27 .


#1099
blademaster7

blademaster7
  • Members
  • 1 596 messages

Brockololly wrote...

Its funny though- it seems like Morrigan went through quite a few changes before Origins came out.  In this video, from October 2008 skip ahead to about the 8:15
 mark and  see what Morrigan looked (and sounded like!) back then.

Wow... she looks and sounds terrible in that video.

Beta testers were probably reporting with the US ending, and the designers decided to change her... lol

#1100
AlanC9

AlanC9
  • Members
  • 35 798 messages

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
This sounds like a lead-in of the thousands that have hammered on blademaster and myself because we dare to possess a heretical view from community orthodoxy


If you don't actually want to get into those fights you shouldn't keep proclaiming that you're a heretic. I read of your position three times this week --  "of your position" since you weren't actually saying what the position is until now. Though I can understand not wanting to keep repeating the substance. Maybe you should put it in your sig?

And I thank you for returning to this anyway.

Having said that; first of all, there is no intent to mislead. 

(snip)
 
Secondly: Technically you are correct, there are other choices, but as you have stated they are “not necessarily any better” unless of course one thinks that letting a woman you are supposedly romancing, sleep with another man is a valid choice; that was just not an option for my Warden.  If there were choices other than these, then my failure to mention them was merely an oversight probably due to them being unremarkable, rather than any intent to mislead.


My point was that you know better. Saying there are two choices isn't even effective as rhetoric, since it gives anyone who doesn't already agree license to disregard your entire point. 

Another choice is to refuse the DR but get someone else to do the US, of course. So in your language it's chump time (in two flavors), sacrifice your warden, or sacrifice Alistair (other option locked out by the time you get to the DR).

As for the substance:

Sure, Morrigan doesn't do a very good job of convincing you to do the DR. She's no good at convincing anyone to do anything. Having spent her whole life not being concerned about what other people think, feel, or do, it's a little late for her to start playing this game now.

Saying that your Warden thought the DR was a bad idea isn't an objection. It might very well be a bad, even disastrous idea. My first Warden thought so;  a mage who saw this as exactly the sort of arrogance that got us into the Blight mess, he refused, and in the end had to choose between dying or putting Anora on the throne.
 
Saying that Morrigan is a flawed, even somewhat irrational person is also no objection. It's simply her character.

Saying that Morrigan won't give you your character the information he wants is also not a objection. Her character is under no obligation to do that.

So what you've got is that your Warden wasn't allowed to ask Morrigan questions that she would refuse to answer, to attempt Persuade or Intimidate checks that would fail, or to attack and kill her. I can agree with all of these as a matter of RP, though I imagine you'd have some explaining to do in the latter case, which would make it slightly costly in terms of VA work. I don't find your character's reasoning for wanting to kill her rational at all since she can't put her plan into effect without the cooperation of a Grey Warden, but I have no objection to people playing sociopaths as long as implementing those choices is nearly free.

Again, thanks for the clarification.