16183 réponses à ce sujet

[LURadio]

Hey guys, I'm looking for anyone who could make me a really cool Morrigan signature

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
People who play DA2 and DA3 are not going to care about the PC from DAO.

Same notion that people don't care about a new PC in any new game or that people playing DA3 won't care about Hawke or people picking up ME3 but didn't play ME1 or 2 won't care about Shep and crew.

Cause you just know BioWare is going to screw the pooch when it comes to bringing back the ME2 squad in ME3.

The Taint isn't an issue unless the writers Plot Hammer it into being one- Witch Hunt is already 2 or 3 years into the 10 year time span of DA2. So at most DA2's 10 years ends only 7 or 8 years after Witch Hunt ended. So unless DA3 is going to hop skip and jump ahead about 25 years or so, the Warden will be fine. And given how DA2 ends with the world on the brink of war, with the Chantry collapsing and all, never mind Morrigan's big change speech, I don't think they'll be skipping ahead decades for DA3. They could even start DA3 during the time frame as DA2.

Indeed. Gaider had one of the Wardens in his books get cured of the taint, so I guess the same could be doen with our Warden, should they we willing to do it.

Though it's hard to make an acurate guess before playing the game, it does seem likely that DA3 would take place shortly after DA2 or even during DA2 itself.

Brockololly wrote...

Axekix wrote...
I guess
they could give us the option to redesign our warden entirely but who
knows.  I'd like to see the Warden again but I'd understand if they
wrote him out.

Meh- if they write him out Viconia fashion, I'm out. There are certainly other ways to reintroduce the Warden while having to remake his face in a modified or new engine. You could just have it start with the Warden missing or having vanished- and have someone being questioned all police sketch artist style as to what the Hero of Ferelden looked like- and there is your character creation.

Redesigning your character for a sequal or a new game is practically a common thing these days. Even if they didn't change the graphics you'd still have changes to classes, spells and abilities that happen in all new games, so redesign is almost a given.

They did it in Mass Effect 2 with imported Shepard.

Also, our choices and romance from DA:O are being imported into DA2 and, quite likely, will be imported alongside Hawke's decisions and romance into DA3. This makes having a Warden reappear in that game quite easy since the world has registered his actions and been altered to reflect them.
All you need is to decide what the Warden looks like and his class (due to graphic/gameplay changes that happened in DA2 and are bound to happen again in DA3).

[Master Shiori]

LURadio wrote...

Hey guys, I'm looking for anyone who could make me a really cool Morrigan signature

Here are some that I have. Feel free to pick one if you want:

[Esbatty]

Chapter 8.1 (of 2) is up for the In The Land Of Ever story.



My days off are here again so it'll be a while before the second part of chapter 8 goes up, but it is a two parter so you won't have to wait too long for the whole scene

[Lord_Anthonior]

Master Shiori wrote...

Indeed. Gaider had one of the Wardens in his books get cured of the taint, so I guess the same could be doen with our Warden, should they we willing to do it.

Wait, what?! he did?  in wich book? the calling? because I've just read "The Stolen Throne" or are there more books made because I only know of those two.  Having said and asked  that...that's good to know!, that there is already an official way to cure a Warden, that could be useful for Ximena's  DW if she plans on using it of course heehehe no reason to get ahead of the story hehehe I just associate the news with that. 

[ximena]

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Indeed. Gaider had one of the Wardens in his books get cured of the taint, so I guess the same could be doen with our Warden, should they we willing to do it.

Wait, what?! he did?  in wich book? the calling? because I've just read "The Stolen Throne" or are there more books made because I only know of those two.  Having said and asked  that...that's good to know!, that there is already an official way to cure a Warden, that could be useful for Ximena's  DW if she plans on using it of course heehehe no reason to get ahead of the story hehehe I just associate the news with that. 

Hahah. Well, the taint being cured there had something to do with the amulet. I think the mage wardens at weisshaupt somehow found a way to reverse engineer the amulet. Or something. It wasn't really explained as far as I know. o: And yes, it's from the calling.

[Master Shiori]

ximena wrote...

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Indeed. Gaider had one of the Wardens in his books get cured of the taint, so I guess the same could be doen with our Warden, should they we willing to do it.

Wait, what?! he did?  in wich book? the calling? because I've just read "The Stolen Throne" or are there more books made because I only know of those two.  Having said and asked  that...that's good to know!, that there is already an official way to cure a Warden, that could be useful for Ximena's  DW if she plans on using it of course heehehe no reason to get ahead of the story hehehe I just associate the news with that. 

Hahah. Well, the taint being cured there had something to do with the amulet. I think the mage wardens at weisshaupt somehow found a way to reverse engineer the amulet. Or something. It wasn't really explained as far as I know. o: And yes, it's from the calling.

Thanks for clearing that up Ximena.

I didn't read the Calling, just heard it from others who did.

P.S. We're waiting with baited breath for that Leliana wrapped in red silk art. The Morrigan piece was simply breathtaking.

[Lord_Anthonior]

ximena wrote...

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Indeed. Gaider had one of the Wardens in his books get cured of the taint, so I guess the same could be doen with our Warden, should they we willing to do it.

Wait, what?! he did?  in wich book? the calling? because I've just read "The Stolen Throne" or are there more books made because I only know of those two.  Having said and asked  that...that's good to know!, that there is already an official way to cure a Warden, that could be useful for Ximena's  DW if she plans on using it of course heehehe no reason to get ahead of the story hehehe I just associate the news with that. 

Hahah. Well, the taint being cured there had something to do with the amulet. I think the mage wardens at weisshaupt somehow found a way to reverse engineer the amulet. Or something. It wasn't really explained as far as I know. o: And yes, it's from the calling.

At the risk of sounding like Jowan, "I have to, I have to"...  to start reading The Calling, must get ready in case of any spoilers. I don't mind any kind of spoilers but the ones from books....<_< but aaaanyway, I don't mind,  I knew it was bound to happen to know some things before reading the book, now I have to read it to be prepared hehehe. Good Mr. Gaider, not only he left some mistery regarding Cailan and Flemeth now I have to get to the part about the amulet and the taint.

As per the fiction...well, I suppose Morrigan could get some lore,info or clues to be found about the materials and the process of the amulet or a way to adapt it to DW, hehehe I know, I know, what can I say? I like that fan art and how it is going and as any fan of something liked , one is prone to give suggestions

Master Shiori wrote...

P.S. We're waiting with baited breath for that Leliana wrapped in red silk art. The Morrigan piece was simply breathtaking. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

Hehe, at least you are bound to get what you are waiting for sooner than me, In my case I'm waiting for a Morrigan version of DahliaLynn's  "first night" and/or a mod of "alistair's kiss" but with Morrigan instead of alistair. Those mods, DA2, the third chapter of DW and in a couple of weeks (being off topic) assassin's creed brotherhood ...talk about patience hahaha.

Modifié par Lord_Anthonior, 02 novembre 2010 - 12:15 .

[ximena]

*squeals* Brotherhooood.



Third chapter of DW would have to wait. Haha. I'm finishing a couple of things before delving into it. XD

I've already laid down the basic structure of the story. And I did do my research before that. XD



And regarding mods *coughTerracough*

[Lord_Anthonior]

ximena wrote...

*squeals* Brotherhooood.

Third chapter of DW would have to wait. Haha. I'm finishing a couple of things before delving into it. XD
I've already laid down the basic structure of the story. And I did do my research before that. XD

And regarding mods *coughTerracough*

There most be something in the cyberspace because I have that same coughing ehm....coughCheckedcoughThe RestorationcoughPatchcough.  .

Hehehe I knew it would have to wait, after all it was like a season finale but in a chapter so have to wait for some time till third chapter's premiere, just saying that I have that on my mind as things to wait for. I do like to say that the art work during the time of origins I like it a lot, like the one of killing Howe or the random ones.

Oh yeah! brotherhood!!, I'm on track with those games 1,2 and Brotherhood. Just like Dragon age, awakening, witch hunt and dragon age 2....great games comes in long sequence.

[ximena]

No. Actually, there IS a chapter 4. XD

[Master Shiori]

Wait, there are new kiss mods for Morri?



Where?!

[Esbatty]

ximena wrote...

No. Actually, there IS a chapter 4. XD

I think I love you

...

Also uhh... I got a piece I commissioned from an artist off of deviantart of Morrigan but it is very very NSFW so...http://callmepo.deviantart.com/art/achievement-unlocked-184677330?q=favby:Esbatty/9444322&qo=45]click if you dare.[/url] Lets just say its immediately post Dark Ritual 

Modifié par Esbatty, 02 novembre 2010 - 01:28 .

[Master Shiori]

Esbatty wrote...

ximena wrote...

No. Actually, there IS a chapter 4. XD

I think I love you

...

Also uhh... I got a piece I commissioned from an artist off of deviantart of Morrigan but it is very very NSFW so...http://callmepo.deviantart.com/art/achievement-unlocked-184677330?q=favby:Esbatty/9444322&qo=45]click if you dare.[/url] Lets just say its immediately post Dark Ritual 

That's steaming hot.

Though the face comes a bit as non Morrigan like (at least to me).

[Master Shiori]

ximena wrote...

No. Actually, there IS a chapter 4. XD

I love you. <3

Seriously, that's great news. I think I'll be truly depressed when DW finally ends one day.

[ximena]

HAHA. I'm tempted to say something, but I won't since that might spoil things. XD Okay. I think I'm being evil.

[Master Shiori]

ximena wrote...

HAHA. I'm tempted to say something, but I won't since that might spoil things. XD Okay. I think I'm being evil.

Indeed, I know you'll pull off something sneaky that'll make us all cry.

But regardless of what kind of mischief you have planned I really love your comic and dread to think it'll be over one day.

[ximena]

But will it be really over?



/Gaider?

[Master Shiori]

ximena wrote...

But will it be really over?

/Gaider?

Touche, my lady.

[Brockololly]

ximena wrote...
Hahah. Well, the taint being cured there had something to do with the amulet. I think the mage wardens at weisshaupt somehow found a way to reverse engineer the amulet. Or something. It wasn't really explained as far as I know. o: And yes, it's from the calling.

Ah yes, Fiona. Yeah, hmmm... its been a while since I read The Calling, but wasn't the idea behind the amulets ***SPOILERS for The Calling!**** 


that the First Enchanter was in league with the Architect and had used the Architect's darkspawn magic to have the amulets accelerate the Taint in the Wardens? 

Here we go, straight from the book

“It’s gone,” she said flatly. “The mages at Weisshaupt weren’t sure if it was because the First Enchanter’s brooch sped things up artificially, or . . . at any rate, all the corruption vanished. They don’t think it’s going to come back, either. There was test after test, but they think I may be the first Grey Warden that never has to endure the Calling again.”

“That’s good, isn’t it?”

“Oh, yes.” She nodded. “They’re keeping the brooches, in case they can figure out how they worked, but in the meantime they want to keep an eye on me.” She hesitated only a moment before adding, “I’m being recalled to Weisshaupt. For good.”

Grrrr....just another reason I want the Warden to go up and visit Weisshaupt- not only could you learn more about those brooches and then you could take Alistair up with you to meet his real mother!

Oh and then you've got this little tidbit from The Calling too, which is interesting in light of maybe Flemeth and Morrigan's interest in exotic, forgotten types of magic and their relationship with the Wardens, the BLight and the Taint. This is from FIrst Enchanter Remille in The Calling, talking to Fiona:

“Not to mention that the Architect has access to the most interesting magic. Do you know that the darkspawn possess magic that is quite different from ours? It is driven by the taint, you see, and yet it has a great many uses, even for those of us who are not corrupted.”

I'm wondering if that unique darkspawn magic has some connection to Flemeth's connection to the Blight? Or maybe it goes back to the idea that maybe Flemeth is responsible for the Architect and she taught him that magic?

ximena wrote...

And regarding mods *coughTerracough*

Yeah.....I think his hard drive died but yeah, I look forward to whatever next revision of the Morrigan dialogue fix has in store.

Esbatty wrote...
Also uhh... I got a piece I commissioned from an artist off of deviantart of Morrigan but it is very very NSFW so...http://callmepo.deviantart.com/art/achievement-unlocked-184677330?q=favby:Esbatty/9444322&qo=45]click if you dare.[/url] Lets just say its immediately post Dark Ritual [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

*spits coffee out on monitor*

That was unexpected, but not all together unpleasant:happy: Very nicely done, albeit the face doesn't really seem too much like Morrigan specifically.

ximena wrote...
But will it be really over?

/Gaider?

Old God Baby is intrigued:


I really need to get a tablet- I've been slowly but surely regaining my artistic powers and just need to brush up on my CS5 skills before trying my hand at a Warden/Morrigan comic, basically how I would have liked Witch Hunt to actually turn out.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Brockololly, 02 novembre 2010 - 06:16 .

[Bruddajakka]

Yeah I remember the Codex saying that the magic emissaries use is similar to Blood Magic but I think that was putting it in the most simplistic terms. One thing I would have actually liked to have gotten my hands on is the tome Irving mentions when he's covering for you when Wynne accuses of being a Blood Mage. Considering how long the Warden's have been fighting the Dark Spawn there's bound to have been some interesting stuff in there if it actually did exist.



And now that I think about it. It strikes me that Morrigan is way more knowledgeable about magic then even Wynne is, despite being much younger. Always found it disappointing she couldn't teach you more then just Shape Shifting after she got hold of the Grimoire.

[Terra_Ex]

Back in the swing of things now, another lengthy post for Brock to digest (and to frighten everyone else).



[quote]Brockololly wrote...

Bah! Positivity? In the Morrigan thread? THIS IS THE MORRIGAN THREAD!  *dons Hawke/300 beard and does slow motion kick of Positivity down bottomless pit*

[/quote]

You're right, I forgot myself there for a minute - and that's certainly apt imagery for our hopes for closure.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Yeah, while there are some noteworthy mods that completely redo character appearances, once you do that (for me) they just aren't the same character anymore. [/quote]
It comes down to the fact that I spent dozens of hours looking at a specific character, hearing a specific voice coming out of a very specific face. And you change that face yet retain the voice? Its just off putting and weird.

Of note, one of the character artists on DA2 braved the forums to shed some light on returning characters in this thread:

[quote]SonFrancisco wrote...

[quote]nijnij wrote...

Now I was a bit surprised myself when I saw the new Flemeth.........
........... apart from the clothes, she didn't change that much. She just looks, well... more powerful (slightly younger).
[/quote]

Kicking that brat out of the house really did wonders for her don't ya think?  Toss on a change of clothes, a long bath, a full nights rest and a touch of makeup....its like she were only a hundred years old again! (I  really don't know how old she is)

Generally speaking, I don't mind changes in art direction (I don't think the  armors should necessarily look the same for example since they were a  bit too generic in DA:O IMO) as long as they're not utter retcons.

We've redone the armors across the board to fit with the new art style (no  more women with linebacker wide shoulders!) so they won't be wearing the same models they wore in the first. But they would probably wear
something similar and identifiable if their look was signature. Like how the templar armors are different stylistically, but still look like templar armor.

To address some of the concerns about returning  characters though, upgrading the heads was a huge goal among us  character artists. We didn't choose to improve everyones look just  because of the art style, but because we revamped the head system  entirely. We've redone textures completley to be less stretchy and more  detailed and worked very hard to make these brand new face meshes  animate spectacularly better than before. But we are aware of the  attachment value of particular characters from DA:O and the need for  consistency, so we're being very careful about re-introducing familiar  faces.

Minor characters who didn't get the same polish in the  first one but became breakout stars in the second, (Isabela) get  overhauls to give them the uniqueness and appeal that their characters  deserved. So they now stand out among the rest.

For major  characters who might return, they would remain the same structurally and cosmetically. Especially the humans, unless the the art director or  design/writing deem it otherwise. We really want cameos to be recognized at a glance or familiar under scrutiny. That said, no matter how much  we might try, due to the new head system and the art style, the lighting engine and camera work, they may not look 100% identical. Its  unfortunate, but we hope they'll at least be recognizable. For the races that have been stylized, such as the dwarves and elves, the changes  will be apparent but we hope to keep their cosmetic features the same (hair, eye color and tattoos)

We put a lot of effort into  creating the star characters of DA:O, we love them as much as you all  do. If they happen to get a makeover, it will get the same amount of  care, love and attention to detail that went into them originally and we hope you'll agree with us that it was for the better.
[/quote]

[quote]SonFrancisco wrote...
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, I'm just curious (and this isn't necessarily aimed at you) why if there were plans on bringing back certain characters, there wasn't some  functionality built into the new head morph system to utilize some of  the Origins faces, at least structurally speaking? I'd just hate to have some returning human character like an Alistair, Nathaniel Howe, or  Morrigan show back up and only be able to recognize them based on their  hair style or only after they open their mouth and you recognize the  voice actor.............

[/quote]

Fortunately we have our  methods of approximating one to the other and getting it close, should  we need to. That's what i was referring to, in part, about not being  100% identical but still sharing the structural and cosmetic  similarities and being recognizable. However, putting all the points  about why they might look different aside, when dealing with two models  of varying poly counts and vertex numbers its a little more challenging  to make one look like the other at a microscopic level. The topology and flow of the DA:O mesh is not as optimized for animation as the DA2 ones and therefore may not accurately wrap cleanly along the same lines,  curves and shapes of eachother, particularly when speaking. There will  always be subtle differences.

As far as Alistair and Nathaniel  Howe or Morrigan and other key npcs are concerned, should they ever  re-appear in Dragon Age with the new head system, you might double-take, but my hope is you'll be pleasantly relieved (maybe even a little  excited!).

[/quote]


[/quote]

Certainly I can accept you won't get a one to one match with updated technology, the issue however was the changes were being perceived as "amping things up" for the sake of it or using the art style as an excuse for a drastic change and the effect said changes had on the player experience. So long as the returning "major" characters retain their original look as far as possible, then there's no problem... at least from an art perspective. Issues like female linebackers wouldn't have been a problem if maybe they'd taken the time to implement it properly during Origins five year dev cycle. The above quotes covered all my concerns from my previous post so that’s somewhat reassuring. It’s all about the “major” characters being recognizable at a glance as I said earlier (whilst also retaining the minor nuances that you associate with them), you can account for and accept subtle differences certainly – like Snake in Metal Gear changes from game to game with the tech & timeline but you still know straight away that it’s him you’re looking at before he speaks.

[quote] Brockololly wrote...
Thats true. Unless of course, Flemeth is somehow manipulating Morrigan, maybe even via blood magic? Such that Morrigan's mind isn't even her own, yet she doesn't even realize it?

[/quote]

Could be, it's one of many things of course that only the warden would be aware of, so if that were the case they’d either have to assume player knowledge or have the warden involved somehow if such a plot were to be used effectively.
 

[quote] Brockololly wrote...
I'm of the same mind there too. Flemeth has some connection to the Blight and in turn the Wardens. And we barely know anything of the Wardens- for all we know, the DR type ritual has been done before but its been covered up- its all one big Grey Warden conspiracy!

[/quote]

Yeah, again it's just another way they could possible tie in the warden to the larger event supposedly coming in the future. To me, having an unexpected twist come of the US is preferable and gives greater incentive for multiple playthroughs than underlining it as a dead end. But I certainly believe there’s something there if they’re going to bring a dead warden back. It's just baffling when I hear someone state that we "know everything about the GWs" when it's quite evident that we don't.

 

[quote] Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, again, it comes down to player freedom and choice. The thing is, DAO had a decent amount of choice and freedom, not just in dialogue but in other things like armor and the inventory and all that. And yet there seems to be question on the DA2 forums whether we'll end up stuck with some ME2 style armor for companions. Seems we'll know more this Thursday when they release the next podcast. But if you played Origins that lack of choice will be very evident and I think only then will it become clear what you're missing out on- much like people complained about ME2's streamlining- except it'll be even more so given DA's more traditional RPG heritage.

[/quote]

Yeah, if that’s the case its just coming back to BioWare wanting to rein everything in so it can be controlled finitely – first its dialogue, then potentially armour. What I find amusing are the subset that will agree with whatever BW say or do (even when what’s said on Day 2 directly contradicts what they said on Day 1) and unfortunately that ultimately results in a watered down experience for us all - certainly fitting within EA’s desired model of faster iteration and short dev cycles.

 

[quote] Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, it'll be telling how they handle the choices in terms of having actual consequences. The fact that we're dealing with a new PC in a new geographics terrirtory already gives them an excuse to marginalize many of them. It comes down to resources and how much they want to accomodate having choice actually result in meaningful and divergent consequences. Some choices should block off certain content- and thats not a bad thing.[/quote]

Well, what they're doing with pre-order exclusive characters/quests (though a publisher dictated requirement) is principally no different to locking out particular content unless a player took a certain path in a prior game. Tbh, doing this (providing additional content for long-term fans) actually strengthens the brand as a whole as it encourages newcomers to go back to the beginning of the series and play it through start to finish without the outward appearance of segregating content as pre-order bonuses (which is only done as part of the publishers desire to kill the second hand market anyway). There’s really only one major choice I’m interested in seeing continued and its mini branches in WH, the rest as you can be kept local to Ferelden without much of an issue.

 

[quote] Brockololly wrote...
True, however, resurrecting the US Wardens for Awakening was illogical and that didn't stop BioWare

[/quote]

Yeah, I don’t know what goes on at BioWare that they seem to have such trouble bending their own tech to their own will. When I’m programming something, it’s generally a case of “just make it happen” (or at least that's what gets relayed to me) and workarounds and solutions are devised to facilitate an end goal. I can’t recall if the Awakening import nonsense was a technical restriction or an epic design fail but I think it illustrates how the short leash EA has BioWare on is having a detrimental effect on their team DA’s output.

 

[quote] Brockololly wrote...

Yeah- and ME2 is a much shorter game where the dialogue, like you said, doesn't really result in many varying consequences- just red or blue. But still- that Conrad Verner cameo still bugs me. They never fixed that did they? Thats the thing in games like ME or DAO- when a story bug happens you're not sure if its an actual bug or if its intended and to me, when your whole modus operandi as a developer is making great story driven games, those story bugs like WH are totally damning.

[/quote]

BioWare is very lucky to have decent writers and the funds to cover decent VO for NPCs that allow the mainstream audience to "miss" the plethora of bugs that accompany their releases. I don't think many other devs would get away with it to the extent BW do. Of course when things like the WH bug occurred, even that can’t save them when something is very clearly amiss. This is especially important for a character like Morrigan – like the indifference in her tone in vanilla when you break up with her supports the misconception that she’s cold through and through, whereas she actually has several branches of varying break-up dialogue that are (unsurprisingly) bugged to hell. Maybe it’s because the “majority” supposedly don’t finish games that they put little emphasis into making sure epilogue related stuff works correctly, or maybe it’s that some play the game from a detached, passive perspective (the cinematic crowd) and merrily skip the sidequests in some childish race to the finish line.

There’s also the fact that for example the console players simply won’t have any idea what they’re missing since they have no toolset access. For BioWare’s fantasy games, console players really have to understand that switching to PC will benefit everyone in the long term (even if you can't do so now, keep it in mind for the future), if BW continue to focus on consoles, everyone will have their hands tied with (potentially) no toolset and the console manufacturers idiotic filesize limits on patches, thereby we’ll all get to “enjoy” buggy, unfixable games – fantastic… Judging by reports on Fable 3 & New Vegas it seems entire QA departments are on vacation of late across the board. There’s certainly some amount of irony that I got DA:O for the 360 in the first place as I’d hoped BW’s bug practices had improved (I always get a chuckle out of that) and I wouldn’t run into issues like in BG2 which required the CLUAConsole to remedy… Then I met Morrigan, later upgraded to PC and so the merry saga began.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Sort of unrelated but kind of interesting, in this thread which was talking about the lack of cloaks and horses, you have Gaider saying how originally, DA2 was just going to stick with the same graphics and iterate on content, like BG2 did. *sigh* What could have been....
[quote]David Gaider wrote...

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
guh...I'd have gladly kept the non "hot rod samurai" graphics "improvement" of  DA2 for horses and cloaks and who knows what else. Its just a tad  disappointing with DA2 as I was thinking it would take the BG2 route of a sequel and build on what Origins established and add more cool stuff,  instead of ripping out the foundation and starting over.[/quote]

It wasn't just making it "hot rod samurai", though. We did proceed with  exactly what you suggested at first, but part of the problem with DAO  was that it spent so long in development and thus its graphics  were pretty behind the times in terms of newer releases. Happily that  didn't have a big effect on its sales (or so we assume), but that  situation was only going to get worse as time passed-- even for those of you that don't personally assign much value to graphics, you have to  admit this is true. From our perspective it was either feel the pain now or feel it even more later when and if we made a third game.

[/quote]
[/quote]

Well, from what I’ve seen DA2 still isn’t leagues ahead of DA:O (at least not as far as BioWare would have us believe), the lighting was the worst part of DA:O imo so any improvements on that front will be most welcome. Graphics generally aren’t that important in RPGs anyway, and that applies across the board from the niche stuff to the mainstream. Part of the negative graphical stigma for DA:O came from the Xbox bro crowd who weren’t impressed with the… “optimisations” to textures for the 360 version. Regardless, what’s done is done, lets hope we don’t need another overhaul anytime soon.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, I know Claudia Black is doing VO for Gears of War 3, but I am curious when she did the VO for Witch Hunt? A long time ago or more recently? Cause certainly if they had her in for Witch Hunt around the time they were doing DA2 stuff- you never know.... But I'd rather we only get references to Morrigan and not see her until the Warden can return alongside her.

[/quote]

Well, she does a very good job in Uncharted 2 if you haven’t played it yet. I suppose it depends on her role in DA3 more than anything. If it doesn’t involve all wardens then I can certainly see a situation like you describe, if it does it’d probably require an origins-like system to put everyone on the same page.  But in light of all the info we have on DA2, I’d prefer not to see her in it at all, it'd be fairly risky to be out and about with Flemeth on the prowl.

 

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, it comes down to choice and freedom again. Like Gaider mentioned when talking about the graphics getting upgraded sort of at the expense of a BG2 like iteration in terms of more content, it seems in DA2 we're sacrificing content and freedom in how we converse for more cinematics. I don't care for that shift in resources personally- it might be good for one playthrough, but as I've found out in ME2, it makes susbequent playthroughs very stale.

[/quote]

"Cinematics" is by and large a lot of smoke and mirrors to cover for deficiencies in other areas, wasted effort that could go into actual gameplay imo. Its like in the heyday of Final Fantasy or even the Metal Gear Solid series, they attract criticism because they’re bursting into cinematics/passive FMV every other step. The player should be dictating the flow in my mind, a highly cinematic game packs a lot of punch the first time through, but it’s always a one-trick pony and the cracks in that shiny exterior become very apparent in subsequent playthroughs.

 

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Right again. As Gaider mentioned again in the early WH announcement thread, Morrigan romancing Wardens got screwed over in Origins and Awakening in terms of any closure. But even still, Witch Hunt just reaffirms Morrigan's significance to the overall DA world and specifically her role with the Wardens- whether the Hero of Ferelden or otherwise.

[/quote]

That’s the thing though, looking at things from a pure-romance viewpoint for a second, lets apply it to another character. Let’s say Alistair theoretically has a huge plot-relevant role in DA2 and a female warden who fully romanced him and was queen was completely absent from said events and the writers come up with some handwave excuse for it. On paper it simply doesn’t make sense. It’s exactly the same for Morrigan, as we’ve said before on countless occasions you cannot have full closure on that thread until Morrigan’s arc is completed and so there will be an expectation for a Morri-romancing warden to feature in some way when she returns. The fact that Morrigan always had undertones of being a major player from when you first met her and the decision relating to her is the “biggest decision” in DA:O we certainly do have an expectation of how that plot thread should be handled at a high level.

 

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yuppers- just like WH set things up for every Warden searching for Morrigan, should she be plot centric in the future they'd come up with some other reason. And I doubt Morrigan would the central focus of the plot- maybe she would be, but who knows at this early stage.

[/quote]

Yes, as I’ll discuss later, the manner of Morrigan’s integration into DA3 will shape whatever role the role could prospectively play. I think Morrigan will always be a "lesser" player in the overall scheme of things in light of Flemeth, at least until that plot comes to its conclusion.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Absolutely- should Morrigan return with the Warden, it wouldn't necessarily be about just the romance, but certainly the romance could add unique flavor to any interactions with Morrigan- just as it could if you gut stabbed her or were BFFs with her. The way in which you interact with Morrigan as the Warden is what makes here a great character- she has a sort of fixed personality to be sure, but she also takes vastly different ones based on how you have treated her.

And yes, its fine if they go in an unxpected direction I guess, but you start doing it just for the sake of doing it, and it does indeed feel like a bait and switch and that gets irritating and can kill my interest in a franchise awfully quick if it feels like the devs are just yanking on your chain.

[/quote]

That sums it up quite nicely, of course it does depend on what role Morrigan plays. If she’s too cameo-esque (Flemeth) then it could easily come off as moustache twirling generic villain, if she’s a party member that could potentially limit her role in the larger plot, then again maybe not. In my view, the warden should be present if we want to see a multi-faceted personality for Morrigan without it seeming contrived.

Going in a different direction on occasion is fine, but it has to be working toward something, moving with purpose if you will and crucially it has to wrap up or build upon the initial hanging plot threads within a reasonable timeframe. BioWare’s presentation of Hawke as “more important” than anything else in existence in the early DA2 reveal stages did them no favours in the transition period.

 

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Thats my hope too- if WH's choice didn't mean anything they wouldn't have bothered patching it, and patching it so quickly- unlike Awakening. Of course, maybe the WH flags only relate tangentally to how Morrigan may appear in the future in broad terms, not necessarily anything to do with the Warden. But its a far simpler solution, logically speaking, to have those flags mean something for the Warden that interacted with her.

[/quote]

Well, I support logical follow-throughs and continuity. Stabbing Morrigan or getting a gift from her and never hearing anything further from either choice (and having the warden pay no heed to the Flemeth/Change/GW stuff) is… unusual in both the realm of storytelling and gaming. Consequences that are applied to the involved parties is naturally one aspect of what I consider to be good storytelling – Arthur doesn’t pull the sword out of the stone only to go home and take a nap and disappear into obscurity.

And on a similar note, having an engaging story is all well and good, but for me a direct continuation is important in the context of hanging plot threads. DA2 seems to be like the chapters in a book that serve as filler, something you have to plough through in order to get back to the good stuff. Not that I'm saying DA2 won't be a good game in and of itself, but that one thread is always in the back of your mind.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, the level of continuity and consequences we see in DA2 will be a good indicator whether the whole importing feature is anything of note or just another marketing point they can slap on the back of the box.

[/quote]

Indeed, it’s funny how willing some are to just roll over and accept a hand waving. “Experience the consequences of your DA:O warden’s actions first hand in DA2! (via 50 exquisitely crafted emails letters ).”


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
You know it would be interesting if, given how it would seem that Hawke is MIA during Cassandra's interrogation of Varric, if Hawke didn't go off into an Eluvian as well, searching for Morrigan and/or the Warden. Or maybe Hawke just went searching for the Warden that vanished at the end of Awakening- as Hawke realizes that in order to bring the world back from the brink of war he/she needs the Warden/Morrigan as it might be somehow tied to Flemeth and the change too.

[/quote]

I’m not sure if the Awakening disappearance is something that’ll happen in DA2’s timeline (except maybe right at the end). I doubt Hawke will do anything quite so specific as chasing a Morri romancing warden, but there are a lot of ways that they could tie a DR warden and Morrigan into future events (with a lot of differing groups.) I do hope that some of the DA2 setup is groundwork for something involving the GWs. Though if he is MIA toward the end of the game, that’s interesting in and of itself I suppose.

 

[quote] Brockololly wrote...
Right on- thats the thing- you can plan up all this great continuity and consequences, but its what is in the final game that matters. Like you brought up. the Aimo scene for the DR adds a TON of context to Morrigan, yet they cut it from the final game, which , makes the DR scene come off as dramatically different. The shorter dev time for DA2 has me worried that more of those sort of character development scenes will get hacked down such that we end up with less interesting characters or more plot threads that lack closure or don't make sense unless you're one of the writers or devs that knows how the full story should have played out.

[/quote]

Precisely, it’s why I find it difficult to take solace in the devs assurances that “everything will be fine” and “every effort will be made” when you have things like that scene absent from the game yet some fairly useless stuff made it in. If you got a character that you know you’ll be using again then making those final scenes as evocative as possible is critical. As I’ve said before, instead of crap like Feastday and DS Chronicles, funnel some of that cash into solidifying the existing plot (since most DLCs have no intention of moving it forward). The thing is that a sole modder/group of modders could do it within a short timespan (excluding the VO) yet sadly we have to hope one of the writers is feeling charitable enough to toss a “what could have been” bone our way. The shorter dev time is indeed concerning, and ties in directly with content cuts though I’d surmise much of the engine is identical barring the combat so that shouldn’t hamper progress, but its still a damn short dev cycle.

 

[quote] Brockololly wrote...
I do wonder about that sometimes- the devs and writers are privvy to much more lore and content than what we know. So I wonder if they don't on occassion lose sight of what the average gamer knows just from the game? Like, Gaider and the devs probably know how Morrigan fits into DA2 or maybe generally what role she plays in the DA timeline. But its like they're sort of metagaming- they just have to be sure to give the player enough stuff to go off of, as in WH, I don't think they provided enough info and answers- so to them it might be so clear as to what the stuff in WH is alluding to, for the gamer not much of it makes sense.

[/quote]

I’d agree with that assessment. Using WH as an example, for non-Morri romancers it’s dancing on a knife edge with how little it reveals, touting it as the warden’s final quest, the gift which potentially goes unexplained. The way Morrigan’s speech has been interpreted as an advert for DA2 / poke at the players (feelings which I believe Gaider assuaged in a post somewhere) was a particularly dangerous move imo. Yeah, we’ve discussed what happens when they try to be too clever at length iirc. I never really expected WH to provide much in the way of answers tbh, but they’re juggling a lot of stuff atm and should be careful not to further irritate the player base.  I’ll expand more on this later though.


[quote] Brockololly wrote...
Yes, if I recall, you have to opt in to the telemetry by clicking the box. I think its unchecked normally. And if DAO sold more on consoles anyway, I doubt most people are hooked up to Live when playing a single player game like Origins necessarily.

But I'd like to think that the devs have a vision regardless of the telemetry- and that the telemetry might give them some fine tuning in their direction of the franchise maybe in terms of relative popularity of features and characters maybe. But how they interpret all that is important too- like how in ME2 more people played Soldier than any otehr class combined- does that mean playthroughs to completion or just people who played for 10 minuets and sold it back to Gamestop? Personally, I'd be focusing more on the people that finished the game and not incomplete playthroughs.

[/quote]

The Soldier thing is interesting though like you mentioned – how do they interpret and differentiate between different scenarios. Iirc Soldier Is the default/highlighted class for ME2, so bearing that in mind, if players just hammer a certain button just to get into the game, can you really still classify that telemetry as admissible?

 

[quote] Brockololly wrote...
Exactly- its further building up Morrigan's plot in the player'smind. And potentially building it up too far if they keep teasing with no answers. But definitely, if DA3 once again doesn't feature Morrigan in a significant way, it kind of renders and cliffhanger or anticiipation over her plot pointless as DA4 is waaaaaay in the future, if it were to happen at all. Having DA2 be about a new PC with likely little direct progression of Morrigan's plot (when Morrigan's plot is what I'm most intrested in with DA) is already a bit of a stretch in terms of my interest in DA.

[/quote]

Completely agree, there’s a significant timespan in between the release of any game and its sequel, as DA2 adds new plot threads to the fray, those from DA:O get pushed out of your mind and they lose their significance. It comes down to how big of a gamble are BioWare willing to take in my eyes. Much like if they think simply “bringing Morrigan back, period” is some sort of silver bullet for fan appeasement, doing it wrong will likely lose you a significant portion of the audience in much the same way that constantly promising answers but giving nothing will wear thin with time.

 

[quote] Brockololly wrote...

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Sure, Isabela getting "amped up" is ok, since she was such a minor character in Origins. But for someone like Morrigan or Alistair? No, unless you're going to break continuity and reboot things, their faces should be the same- change their hair, clothes, whatever, but theri faces should look the same. I'll repost my thoughts on existing characters here, as I posted in another thread:

[quote]Brockololly wrote...

[quote]In Exile wrote...
Could I
ask why? I mean, I understand that to you visual continuity is very 
important - but why? In reality if someone I know had a different face, 
it would freak me out. But video-games are an entirely different thing.

It's like a book - you can't even see the character or invent
features  for them except in the most arbitrary mental sense, so don't
you relate  to them based on whether or not you are told it's [x] character and that character behaves, well, consistent with the previously established character?
[/quote]

Well,
except that unlike books, a video game is a visual medium. So unless 
you're saying you're just rebooting everything, I expect a returning 
character, especially a major returning character like Morrigan or 
Alistair to facial structure wise look the same. If they change their 
wardrobe or hair or whatever, thats fine. Its when they radically alter a
character's face- like Sucker Punch tried to do with Cole for inFamous 2
before the backlash caused them to change it back- that it irks me.

I know
they've said they're changing the art style and thus everything will 
change, but it depends on how much. To use movies as an example, Batman 
and the Joker have gone through many different looks, but thats
usually  tied to a reimagining of their entire universe. Take the Joker:


Now
both Nicholson and Ledger made great Jokers, but they both looked quite
different, yet retained certain defining features visually. The issue 
I'm having with visually retconning existing Origins characters for DA2 
is that it would be like taking Jack's Joker and then making a sequel 
where, without explanation he looked like Ledger's Joker while stil 
keeping the lore of Burton's Batman world. That would bother me greatly.
The variance in the look of the Joker or the difference between Adam 
West's Batman versus Christian Bale's Batman is that the whole world was
redesigned and any continuity between was nixed and everything started 
over. Yet with DA2, its as if we go from Christian Bale's Batman both
in look and voice:


but for the supposed sequel, they change the look of Batman to this:

while
still retaining Bale's batman voice. That would be a major disconnect 
that would absolutely rip me out of the movie/game/show. Its not even 
like just recasting an actor for a role, as you're keeping the same 
voice actor but giving their character a new face- that just seems 
terribly off putting to me and weird.

The varying Joker or Batman
looks work in the context of their entire reimaginings of their worlds,
not only visually but thematically. Yet with DA2, they're seemingly 
trying to keep the lore and characters and world the same, yet 
completely reimagining everything visually. So it just creates a big 
disconnect for any returning character.

It would be like taking 
the aesthetic of BUrton's Batman world and keeping the same lore and 
tone, yet for the sequel changing up that whole gothic look to Nolan's 
more modern look- with no explanation as to the change visually since 
its not even a reboot. Thats why I'm confused about DA2- its supposed to
be set in the same world as Origins, but now everything looks different
when its not even a complete thematic reboot like the changes in visual
style between Batman movies were or what you have often have when 
comics change artists. And it just creates a disconnect.

If I've spent dozens of hours hearing Claudia Black's voice come out of the a face that looks like this:


I
pick up on the little defining features of that face. And all told, 
that face tied to Claudia Black's voice is what makes up the character 
of Morrigan to me. You can pick up defining features of Morrigan's look,
like her dark hair or her eye shadow or her overall face structure and 
shape and thats what I associate with Morrigan in a visual sense- and
in a video game, that look is just as important as her VO, and writing. 
Taken all together thats what makes Morrigan, the character, to me.
Its  all that put together that I'm interested in seeing how her story 
continues.

Yet if you plop this face down (no offense to whoever modded this):


And
tell me thats Morrigan simply because she has the same VO, writing and 
dark hair, thats just not Morrigan to me after having played Origins
for dozens of hours after having Morrigan look like in the first
screen.  And it just creates a weird disconnect and kills any sense of
continuity or emotional engagement I may have had lingering from the
first game.

It all depends on how closely they match the face and
whether, like the  Joker retaining key aspects of his look, they can
identify key features  of a character's face without going crazy. About
the only Morrigan face  morph I actually like is from Adneate because its subtle but retains the key unique things in vanilla Morrigan's facial structure:



All told, maybe its a subjective thing, but its something that bothers me in any game.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]
[/quote]

[/quote]

[/quote]

Ah, I find it very odd that anyone would try to defend a “BioWare says this character is X, therefore it is so” approach – that’s a fairly indefensible standpoint imo. Games can be (certainly for RPGs) thought of as a middle ground between books and film so visual identification with a character is of paramount importance. I’m sure there’s research somewhere that comments on how someone’s face IRL is imprinted in our memory and the same could be said of any visual medium.

I’d say you summarised the issue nicely Brock, even if it is explaining what I’d consider to be common sense [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie] I suppose it makes me think of the movie Face/Off where Travolta and Cage switch faces – despite possessing completely different personalities, one can masquerade as the other because they retain the outward appearance of that character. Make a change to their facial appearance however and the player is thrown into confusion. Good catch on the InFamous Cole issue - you can't change a major character design at such a fundamental level and not expect a backlash. Coming back to the comments from SonFrancisco way back up the page – if the player is doing a double take because maybe the character has a new outfit/hairstyle/aged somewhat, that’s fine, if it’s because they’ve drastically altered that character’s appearance then not so much. There are cases where due to technological advances the new may indeed look better than the old, but that's generally most noticable in the jump from one console generation to the next.

[quote] Brockololly wrote...
Ha- so yeah, basically, do we think Morrigan is still in league with Flemeth and is just using the Warden? I don't think she's quite that evil, but I could see it that maybe Flemeth is using blood magic or something to maybe subconciously influence Morrigan's actions. Maybe thats why Morrigan has that sense of inevitability and fate and destiny in her actions- almost like things are out of her control?

[/quote]

Hmm, it’d be a pretty damn elaborate scheme Brock (and exclusive to a male warden as well) so I highly doubt it. I certainly believe Flemeth still has something over Morrigan that she’s probably seeking to free from as part of a larger plot in WH.

 [quote]Brockololly wrote...

*Dons Helm of Speculation +5*

So Laidlaw said above that he's especially mindful of making sure Morrigan's eyes are that yellow color in all media after they almost missed it in the Sacred Ashes trailer. Does that make her eye color especially meaningful? We know its to symbolize her unique parentage as I think Gaider has mentioned, but anything beyond that? Any significance beyond just being one of Morrigan's easily identifiable traits?[/quote]

Probably has some deeper meaning, check back for DA15 and maybe we'll get some answers. Almost certainly dragon related, a subject she comments on during the Sacred Ashes quest.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
Looking back on Flemeth and Morrigan when you encounter them in Kolchari Wilds, I'd say Flemethalso has yellow eyes. At least they look yellow to me.
[/quote]

Flemeth doesn't have the same color yellow eyes as Morrigan- I just checked in the toolset and they're technically light brown, although they look a little odd. But if you look in the DA2 screens released thus far, she clearly has more yellow/golden colored eyes- not exactly Morrigan's as her's are almost a pale yellow but I think the change in Flemeth's eye color is to match her up with Morrigan.


I almost wonder if initially they only made Morrigan's eyes yellow to look cool and now they're going to hold more of a plot significance?

[/quote]
Definitely something there. Flemeth's might be a different shade to signify a difference in power/age maybe? What colour were Morrigan's eyes in the concepts?
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
How I miss good C&C games...
[/quote]
Damn, the original C & C (dubbed Tib Dawn sometime later iirc) started it all for me. Absolutely fantastic game back in the day.



Stealth tanks, the Mammoths, Obelisks, branching missions and the hilarious FMVs.  Loved the Covert Ops expansion too, plenty of missions where you started at a huge disadvantage and the enemy relentless hammered your already damaged base - ah, simpler times I didn't like the original Red Alert as much as the Allies/Soviet conflict wasn't as interesting as the GDI/NOD setup, but it did have good missions and two expansions iirc, tesla coils and the ant missions were fun as I recall. Ok, back on topic [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

[quote]Bruddajakka wrote...
That'd probably ****** even more people off then the whole playing as Hawke bs in DA2.
[/quote]
Yeah, I think a lot of what annoyed people with the initial Hawke mishandling was how he was pushed as "the most important" which more or less undermines the DA:O warden who was very much a player-construct while Hawke is more BW-defined imo. To be told categorically that the warden is dead and Morrigan's story is to be concluded without the one other individual that is deeply involved in it would be pathetic.


[quote]Giggles_Manically wrote...
People who play DA2 and DA3 are not going to care about the PC from DAO.
[/quote]
Something of a sweeping statement and assuming that newcomers outnumber the existing fanbase... Perhaps not, but those who have been with the series from its inception will hardly relish BW telling them that your previous character is "not as important" as the new epic hero that they have defined and in doing so they potentially alienate a huge part of their existing audience.

[quote]Giggles_Manically wrote...
You want the Warden to come back fully voiced to make people happy?
[/quote]
VO only exists for the protagonist for the benefit of those who like to be spoon fed everything, in this case it serves to provide the emotion for the line since some players apparently can't use their imagination to infer intent within games, somewhat shocking for a medium the amalgamates elements of cinema and literature. The warden being voiced or not would depend on his/her role in DA3.

[quote]Giggles_Manically wrote...
I dont care if the Warden does not come back as long as they tell me why, if left with a non ending than I wont be happy.
[/quote]
My feelings are exactly the opposite.

The warden's appearance in a future title depends on a multitude of factors - the warden's potential role (plot function) in DA3, ditto Morrigan, the ending you got in the original game and WH. In fact, the role Morrigan plays in DA3 is probably the largest factor (alongside whether or not the warden would be the protagonist) as whether she maintains a Flemeth style "pops up occassionally" function or is actually a party member could dictate how large of a role a returning warden could have.

Understand that a warden that just vanishes after a mirror world ending is repeating the exact same problem as was present in Origins (even moreso now) and would be seen as incredibly weak from the perspective of Morri thread regulars.

It's like stating that Leli got randomly slain by a stray arrow by one of Marj's surviving posse out for revenge in a DA3 codex, or Zev was taken out by the Crows, or Alistair tripped and cracked his head open on the Denerim throne. Like Viconia's "Gaider'd" moment, these are all viable explanations (and incredibly easy ways to remove an actor from play) but all they'd accomplish is p***ing the player off - much like the Warden's non-appearance would negate any sense of meaning from WH. Single line write-offs of the player's previous characters (to make room for a BW defined epic hero) goes beyond belittling player agency in my mind.

After the litany of (still unresolved by BW) bugs regarding Morrigan, the bone that was the Eluvian ending amounting to nothing would be the killing blow for me because frankly it's not even funny anymore. DA is the first IP in a decade to come close to matching BG in terms of scale and the potential of where the plot can go, seeing BW make the same mistakes they made with the NWN model again would be tragic.

So in summary - a new PC each time is the easy way out, erasing your previous character from existance in a sequel likewise. If your character got full closure in the previous game, great, if not then  you've every right to be annoyed if they're thrown to the wayside. Do you see just how anticlimatic the mirror world ending variant would be (by default) if only Morrigan returns to active play in DA3, if that warden disappears the ending may as well not exist. You've kept players in suspense for 2-4~ years for what- nothing. The Awakening epilogue slide which occurs at an undetermined time in the future indicates we will get *something* regarding the warden in the future though.

As this thread has discussed at length, with the direction DA2 has taken, there's not a whole lot of incentive (especially in mind of the oft-held view that BW should apparently ditch everything from the previous game for the sake of convenience) to remain faithful, so yeah, a codexed Warden for DA3 would mark the end of my interest in the series because it's an incredible sloppy approach and speaks volumes as to how far player choice matters in the world of DA - it's happened before with NWN and I've no problem walking again.

Take the WH endings in the context that DA3 is announced and Morrigan is back:
BW: "Hey guys, exciting news - DA3 will continue Morrigan's story."
Player 1: "YES! Finally I can see what happened when my warden went into the mirror with her!"
BW: "Err, sorry guys, the Warden's... gone."
Player 1: "Eh?"
BW: "Oh, but don't worry, there's a fantastic codex entry/narrative piece on the matter from Flemeth. See how the game reacts to your choices?"
Player 2: "But what of the gift Morrigan left for my friendly warden that we never heard anything about?"
BW: "Yep, that doesn't matter. No obligation to expound on that part, Flemeth's marsh cuisine recipe book maybe :-)"
Player 3: "I stabbed Morrigan, how's that play into DA3?"
BW: "She'll have a slightly angrier face throughout the whole thing due to recent improvements in our tech. The most important thing is that Morrigan's back, amirite?!"

Taken to its extreme and a loaded setup obviously but can you see just what an utterly useless approach the codex write-off is to player choice and plot development. In the above scenario WH truly becomes a pure advert for DA2 as it would serve no purpose whatsoever within the grand scheme of things.

I believe Gaider stated in this very thread way back something along the lines that BW isn't obligated to continue plot thread X, etc, so while they could certainly tout that defense my response is the same as was back then- don't start what you don't intend to finish (especially not in the closing moments of a game) or you'll be left with players who lack confidence in your franchise. If your warden did the DR or instigated it via Alistair/Loghain then that player character shouldn't be divorced of the consequences.

Me & Brock previously discussed how powerful text can be, yet wield that in the wrong way - such as the Viconia epilogue or a codex write off and you can pretty much invalidate everything that "made" DA:O for the player. As Brock says, having to remake the warden's appearance isn't exactly too high of a price to pay if they return.

Quite frightening how much text I can generate from a single sentence quote...

[quote]Bruddajakka wrote...

Well enough time could have passed that our Warden could have aged in that time for it to happen. And I honestly don't care if my Warden ends up voiced as long as it's not by Jowan's VA.
[/quote]
If I can have an option to turn the voice off, it's fine.  A voiced PC defines that character to an extent, its inescapable and your roleplaying options are hampered by it. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie]


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
The Taint isn't an issue unless the writers Plot Hammer it into being one- Witch Hunt is already 2 or 3 years into the 10 year time span of DA2. So at most DA2's 10 years ends only 7 or 8 years after Witch Hunt ended. So unless DA3 is going to hop skip and jump ahead about 25 years or so, the Warden will be fine. And given how DA2 ends with the world on the brink of war, with the Chantry collapsing and all, never mind Morrigan's big change speech, I don't think they'll be skipping ahead decades for DA3. They could even start DA3 during the time frame as DA2.
[/quote]
Yep, considering Gaider's comments on the Awakening epilogue, I think we will hear about the warden's disappearance before the taint kicks in. Of course this could be as a codex reference or something but I'm hoping it ties in with the change and DA2's lengthier timeline.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Meh- if they write him out Viconia fashion, I'm out. There are certainly other ways to reintroduce the Warden while having to remake his face in a modified or new engine. You could just have it start with the Warden missing or having vanished- and have someone being questioned all police sketch artist style as to what the Hero of Ferelden looked like- and there is your character creation.
[/quote]
Overreaction or not, me too. For me the DR/US present two interesting lead-ins to a possible future game, with each offering unique content. I'd really like to see them revisit previous protagonists as *that* could work.

[quote]Esbatty wrote...
Yeah even a dead Warden can be brought back against their will. Death is not permamnent in Thedas. Hell even a spectral/wraith warden would be an interesting approach. Imagine gathering companions from The Fade. Desire and Pride Demons, benevolent spirits like Faith and Justice, other people trapped between life and death. Dragon Age 3 could have someone trying to build a new "stairway to heaven"/tower of babel to get to the Black City and threatens both Thedas and The Fade.
[/quote]
Exactly, something like that would be a fantastic way to pull the rug out from the US and provide incentive to play through the whole series in a different way - something the devs are apparently touting as an important feature. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...

Redesigning your character for a sequal or a new game is practically a common thing these days. Even if they didn't change the graphics you'd still have changes to classes, spells and abilities that happen in all new games, so redesign is almost a given.

They did it in Mass Effect 2 with imported Shepard.

Also, our choices and romance from DA:O are being imported into DA2 and, quite likely, will be imported alongside Hawke's decisions and romance into DA3. This makes having a Warden reappear in that game quite easy since the world has registered his actions and been altered to reflect them.
All you need is to decide what the Warden looks like and his class (due to graphic/gameplay changes that happened in DA2 and are bound to happen again in DA3).

[/quote]
Very true, it's really not so big of an issue as people make it out to be. Like you say, a face remake is fine and equivilant class / skills works just as well. All this has been done before across other games and has worked without issue.


[quote]Esbatty wrote...

Chapter 8.1 (of 2) is up for the In The Land Of Ever story.

My days off are here again so it'll be a while before the second part of chapter 8 goes up, but it is a two parter so you won't have to wait too long for the whole scene [/quote]
Ha, are you still writing this while you're (supposed) to be working?


[quote]ximena wrote...

*squeals* Brotherhooood.

Third chapter of DW would have to wait. Haha. I'm finishing a couple of things before delving into it. XD
I've already laid down the basic structure of the story. And I did do my research before that. XD

And regarding mods *coughTerracough*[/quote]
Am I being prodded? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

Well, the next version of MRP will have the DR kiss restored, and it's most certainly not a generic kiss. Will need some testers for that when the time comes, of course my computer still isn't fixed yet so it's on hold for the moment. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sad.png[/smilie] It (was) 30 secs long already, has custom animations and lots of FaceFx so I'm reluctant to make it any longer... maybe I'll make some variants or something.  As a separate project I also extended some of Morri's kisses but I'll probably do further enhancements before releasing that. The main impediment atm is (broken computer) + severe lack of time due to ridiculous amount of uni work - it's like back to back all nighters atm [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sleeping.png[/smilie] once that's done we'll see.

And I need to leave some positive comment on all your pics ximena, when I get some free time I'll be sure to do so. The scene in DW where Morrigan said no to the Mabari pup and the broken heart was most amusing [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]
[quote]Lord_Anthonior wrote...
Oh yeah! brotherhood!!, I'm on track with those games 1,2 and Brotherhood. Just like Dragon age, awakening, witch hunt and dragon age 2....great games comes in long sequence.

[/quote]
Isn't Brotherhood just a multiplayer enabled version of Assassins Creed 2 - any other worthwhile enhancements over the standard game and the 2 extra sequences? AC2 was an example of how to fix what was wrong with the original game on a side note.



[quote]ximena wrote...

But will it be really over?

/Gaider? [/quote]
Dammit ximena, it's your job to provide a decent alternate ending (with closure) to the Morrigan arc in case we get Gaider'd. You can't let us down! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]


[quote]Brockololly wrote...

[quote]ximena wrote...
Hahah. Well, the taint being cured there had something to do with the amulet. I think the mage wardens at weisshaupt somehow found a way to reverse engineer the amulet. Or something. It wasn't really explained as far as I know. o: And yes, it's from the calling.
[/quote]

Ah yes, Fiona. Yeah, hmmm... its been a while since I read The Calling, but wasn't the idea behind the amulets ***SPOILERS for The Calling!****


that the First Enchanter was in league with the Architect and had used the Architect's darkspawn magic to have the amulets accelerate the Taint in the Wardens?

Here we go, straight from the book
[quote]
“It’s gone,” she said flatly. “The mages at Weisshaupt weren’t sure if it was because the First Enchanter’s brooch sped things up artificially, or . . . at any rate, all the corruption vanished. They don’t think it’s going to come back, either. There was test after test, but they think I may be the first Grey Warden that never has to endure the Calling again.”

“That’s good, isn’t it?”

“Oh, yes.” She nodded. “They’re keeping the brooches, in case they can figure out how they worked, but in the meantime they want to keep an eye on me.” She hesitated only a moment before adding, “I’m being recalled to Weisshaupt. For good.”
[/quote]

Grrrr....just another reason I want the Warden to go up and visit Weisshaupt- not only could you learn more about those brooches and then you could take Alistair up with you to meet his real mother!

[/quote]
There's a bunch of warden-exclusive stuff that could be explored which is why I find "the warden's story is over" statement to be somewhat redundant. Hopefully after the DA2 setup we'll have some opportunities to further explore these avenues.

[quote]Bruddajakka wrote...
And now that I think about it. It strikes me that Morrigan is way more knowledgeable about magic then even Wynne is, despite being much younger. Always found it disappointing she couldn't teach you more then just Shape Shifting after she got hold of the Grimoire. [/quote]
Yeah, as Flemeth's daughter and one who desires power it stands to reason that she would be, there's a few tidbits during the DR scene where she mentions blood magic and knowing "a great many things."

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 03 novembre 2010 - 01:38 .

[Morrigans God son]

Oh my god. Longest post ever. It's like the size of a Harry potter book.

[Terra_Ex]

Ha, it's pretty large, the img tags aren't playing nice tho...

[Bruddajakka]

You know I honestly don't mind if I have to redo the face/skills of my Warden come DA3 but I will be mad as all hell if I don't start the game wearing The Armor of the Sentinel with Vigilance, and the Heartwood Shield.



And I don't think it's impossible for it to have two different starting points. Hell there's nothing actually stopping it from starting right after WH concludes. If your Warden goes through the portal it starts on the other end. If they didn't it picks up with Fin, and Ariane. Then they can time skip if need be. DA2 is supposed to be set over a time period of ten years. There's nothing stopping DA3 from doing that as well.