16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Shiori]

Seriously Terra. The way that's going your post will take 1-2 pages at least. We'll catch up to Alistair thread in no time!

[soundchaser721]

Wow Terra, just wow. Awesome post.

[Lord_Anthonior]

Master Shiori wrote...

Seriously Terra. The way that's going your post will take 1-2 pages at least. We'll catch up to Alistair thread in no time!

Even if we don't catch them, there's much quality in Terra's post than in short ones in alistair's thread hahahaha (Always rooting for Morrigan's Thread)

[blademaster7]

I think I broke my finger by scrolling down the previous page. I wish I could participate just like old times but I'm just not that interested anymore.

[Barbarossa2010]

blademaster7 wrote...

I think I broke my finger by scrolling down the previous page. I wish I could participate just like old times but I'm just not that interested anymore.

Well buddy, sadly, I'm with you.  I just don't have that flaming passion to go for Gaider's throat like I did (wow) nearly a year ago.  But I do lurk and read, and this is pretty much the only thread I have any interest in.  I'll chime in to support a friend every now and then from the home page, but that's about it.

@ Terra, I actually read that whole post...and shockinly agree with everything. 

[Master Shiori]

@Blademaster and Barbarossa



I think both of you will be back here and ranting with the rest of us the first moment we hear some bad news about Morri or the Warden

[Brockololly]

PureMethodActor wrote...
HOT DAMN that is one hot piece of Error "404: Page Not Found"!



In case you didn't get that, what I was trying to convey is that the link is broken for me. Can you please repost or edit?

Also, will get to epic posts later. Hard to keep up with that and actual life stuff

NSFW
http://callmepo.devi...y/9444322&qo=45
Try that one!

Modifié par Brockololly, 03 novembre 2010 - 02:18 .

[ximena]

@Terra



Wow. That's a very looooooooong post.



Haha. No. I'm not prodding you, just saying if someone needs Morrigan mods, they should look at yours. Take your time. No rush. XD And I will wait for your comments. It's always nice to read comments.



Regarding brotherhood, I think Ezio is a master assassin now and he's leading a band of other assassins with different specialties. And you have control of how you work these other ones. Plus you can "fix" Rome like you fixed Villa Auditore.



@Brock and your comic



I actually have an idea for a WH comic. Haha. But then Edric lives in an alternate universe. I'm looking forward to what you come up with. >:3

[Lord_Anthonior]

ximena wrote...

@Terra

Wow. That's a very looooooooong post.

Haha. No. I'm not prodding you, just saying if someone needs Morrigan mods, they should look at yours.

Regarding brotherhood, I think Ezio is a master assassin now and he's leading a band of other assassins with different specialties. And you have control of how you work these other ones. Plus you can "fix" Rome like you fixed Villa Auditore.

@Brock and your comic

I actually have an idea for a WH comic. Haha. But then Edric lives in an alternate universe. I'm looking forward to what you come up with. >:3

@terra's mods
And after mentioning that there are some projects on hold like the DR and the Kissing, its sounds great when they are finished but of course no rush, I look forward to see how the one of the DR will come out.

Ximena, so you are buying Brotherhood too? I pre ordered the game after I pre ordered DA 2 and just waiting for these weeks for the release, did you saw what happened to Villa Auditore in the demo??? hehehe <_<

[LURadio]

I've got a question for you guys about Witch Hunt, I played it, it wasn't glitched on my console or anything it worked the way it was supposed to........but is it supposed to like have an epilogue save so that for future reference (ie. that's what happened to your Warden in Ferelden as part of the "landscape" import into DA2)......cuz basically I finish it perfectly with my Warden and Morrigan going through the mirror but there's no save after, so I've always got a save in The Nest right before I talk to her



It just seems wrong....is it, if so, can it be fixed ??

[Bruddajakka]

The most recent version should have fixed that.

[Brockololly]

ximena wrote...
@Brock and your comic

I actually have an idea for a WH comic. Haha. But then Edric lives in an alternate universe. I'm looking forward to what you come up with. >:3

Ha- IF I ever get around to it, it would probably start after Awakening and focus at least a bit on the time between the end of Awakening and Witch Hunt. So basically focusing a whole heck of alot more on the Warden and the actual hunt for Morrigan and a definitie visit to Weisshaupt as the Wardens may want a word with the Warden as to why the heck he's still alive. And Morrigan of course:D

But thats all one big "IF":wizard:

LURadio wrote...
It just seems wrong....is it, if so, can it be fixed ??

I can only speak for having played on the PC, but at least how the final save works on the PC is that it creates an autosave right as the last cutscene finishes. So that if you were to look in your saved games you should see one that sort of shows just Morrigan and your Warden standing in front of the ELuvian. And if you were to load that save it would just cut straight to the WItch Hunt credits- thats the save game you'd want for importing into DA2.

[Beguiler59]

My fourth playthrough of witchhunt with a dwarf hero I asked Morrigan to take me with her and much to my surprise she did.

[Bruddajakka]

She'll always let you come with you if you romanced her. Regardless of whether or not you did the DR.

[Lord_Anthonior]

LURadio wrote...

I've got a question for you guys about Witch Hunt, I played it, it wasn't glitched on my console or anything it worked the way it was supposed to........but is it supposed to like have an epilogue save so that for future reference (ie. that's what happened to your Warden in Ferelden as part of the "landscape" import into DA2)......cuz basically I finish it perfectly with my Warden and Morrigan going through the mirror but there's no save after, so I've always got a save in The Nest right before I talk to her

It just seems wrong....is it, if so, can it be fixed ??

Well as a PS3 player, the patch they made to fix witch hunt did allowed me to walk through the Eluvian with her and after that the "auto safe" appeared, so the file is ready to import once DA2 is out. I don't know for 360 but personally for the PS3 it was fixed.

[blademaster7]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

I think I broke my finger by scrolling down the previous page. I wish I could participate just like old times but I'm just not that interested anymore.

Well buddy, sadly, I'm with you.  I just don't have that flaming passion to go for Gaider's throat like I did (wow) nearly a year ago.  But I do lurk and read, and this is pretty much the only thread I have any interest in.  I'll chime in to support a friend every now and then from the home page, but that's about it.

I haven't played DAO in months. I still haven't done a proper WH ending for importation. This thread is the only reason I lurk the BW boards.

Don't worry about me though, when you get Gaider'd again, I'll be there to rant by your side.

Until then, I will be getting my Claudia Black fix by playing Uncharted 2.

PS: Where the hell is Swoo?

[Master Shiori]

blademaster7 wrote...

PS: Where the hell is Swoo?

No idea.

Haven't seen him here in ages.

[LURadio]

Ya, it doesn't Auto-Save after Witch Hunt is done......like the thing's been patched, that much I know because Morrigan takes my Warden through with her....and I know that the stuff I get in it works in Origins/Awakening.



But it doesn't Auto-Save after Witch Hunt and that sort of bothers me because I want it to be in there because I know it might make a difference in DA2.

[Brockololly]

*Ahem*.... I just so happened to have seen some 7 minutes of  non exaggerated DA2 footage with loads of Flemeth chatting with Hawke and a mention of the Warden no less....If you're interested, PM me;)

Edit: I just realized it was pulled off youtube by EA:(

Modifié par Brockololly, 03 novembre 2010 - 09:25 .

[blademaster7]

Brockololly wrote...

*Ahem*.... I just so happened to have seen some 7 minutes of  non exaggerated DA2 footage with loads of Flemeth chatting with Hawke and a mention of the Warden no less....If you're interested, PM me;)

Send it please....

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

*Ahem*.... I just so happened to have seen some 7 minutes of  non exaggerated DA2 footage with loads of Flemeth chatting with Hawke and a mention of the Warden no less....If you're interested, PM me;)

Link please!

[Brockololly]

All right, time for epic post!




[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
You're right, I forgot myself there for a minute - and that's certainly apt imagery for our hopes for closure.[/quote]

Ha- in the 7 minute DA2 gameplay vid there is a good deal of Flemeth dialogue. Nevermind that I can't shake the feeling that the animations and faces make it seem like they're Pirates of the Caribbean animatronic robots from Disney World, but Flemeth does say this on closure:

[quote] Without an end, there can be no peace.[/quote]
Damn straight Flemmy- we need a satisfying end for the Warden/Morrigan=]


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
The above quotes covered all my concerns from my previous post so that’s somewhat reassuring. It’s all about the “major” characters being recognizable at a glance as I said earlier (whilst also retaining the minor nuances that you associate with them), you can account for and accept subtle differences certainly – like Snake in Metal Gear changes from game to game with the tech & timeline but you still know straight away that it’s him you’re looking at before he speaks.[/quote]

Right- thats the thing really, is that if the tech was very clearly better and they just tried to make the faces as they were in Origins, thats fine. My concern is that they'll take the art retcon to similarly "tweak" or "amp up" MOrrigan or existing characters even in little ways. That plus the new face morph system, which combined with the facial animations just seem bizarre, has me a bit worried. Just see the facial animations and herky jerky-ness and dead/buggy eyes in that DA2 video. Something just seems off to me, and I hope its just because they're working on the facial animations still.


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
It's just baffling when I hear someone state that we "know everything about the GWs" when it's quite evident that we don't.[/quote]
Oh definitely- as Swoo said way back, it would be like saying we knew everything about the Jedi and SIth after A New Hope. We've only begun to scratch the surface. BUt with the whole framed narrative thing skipping to only the most epic moments in Hawke's life and DA seemingly embracing skipping from new PC to new PC, I worry we'll only get a shallow glance of any one aspect of Thedas in each game and never really get in depth.



[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Yeah, if that’s the case its just coming back to BioWare wanting to rein everything in so it can be controlled finitely – first its dialogue, then potentially armour. What I find amusing are the subset that will agree with whatever BW say or do (even when what’s said on Day 2 directly contradicts what they said on Day 1) and unfortunately that ultimately results in a watered down experience for us all - certainly fitting within EA’s desired model of faster iteration and short dev cycles.[/quote]
Yeah, limiting that sort of freedom is a real step backwards. Now sure, you could argue they sort of scaled back your freedom even going from BG1 to BG2, but the trade off in having a more linear narrative in BG2 was that the world was absolutely massive. Yet with DA2, it seems the story via the framed narrative is even more linear and overall containing less content. Throw in more limited/passive/"cinematic" dialogue and you've got a less interesting game, IMO.

Somewhat off topic, but take EA's defending of Medal of Honor yesterday in their financial reports- Riccitello blamed its poor reviews (75 metacritic) as being on those narrow minded hardcore reviewers. And how those reviews don't really count since MoH has sold well and rreally appeals to the mass market, average gamer.Thats my concern with DA2- that it becomes a generic action RPG and as such can't compete with other better done action games, yet any poor reviews get hand waved away since DA2 is really for the "mass market" now.

 

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
There’s really only one major choice I’m interested in seeing continued and its mini branches in WH, the rest as you can be kept local to Ferelden without much of an issue.[/quote]

Yup- although I think depending on where the plot goes, something like the Sacred Ashes could play a role even outside of Ferelden. But the DR with Morrigan, the Warden and Old God Baby is the reason I'm still bothering with DA at this point.



[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Yeah, I don’t know what goes on at BioWare that they seem to have such trouble bending their own tech to their own will. When I’m programming something, it’s generally a case of “just make it happen” (or at least that's what gets relayed to me) and workarounds and solutions are devised to facilitate an end goal. I can’t recall if the Awakening import nonsense was a technical restriction or an epic design fail but I think it illustrates how the short leash EA has BioWare on is having a detrimental effect on their team DA’s output.[/quote]

As I remember it, the problem with Origins was that they started out on the NWN engine and then half way through developed Eclipse and moved everything over to that and then they seemingly had issues again moving that over to the consoles. Hopefully, they've gotten that straightened out. As for Awakening, as I recall, the logic given as to why they couldn't import the US Warden's choices into the Orlesian's world was some technical excuse that it wasn't possible to move those character specific files to another character or something. Bottom line is that they messed up royally there and honestly, shouldn't have released Awakening in the shape it was in and definitely not until they were able to get the import right. I agree, that starting with ME2, BIoWare seems to be really strapped down by their release dates, and I think thats to the detriment of the final game sometimes, whether its like Awakening being buggy or having the story feel woefully incomplete and rushed, I miss the days when BioWare took a Valve/Blizzard like approach of release dates of "when its done"- not DA2 which has its release date announced more than 1 year in advance.


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
 Maybe it’s because the “majority” supposedly don’t finish games that they put little emphasis into making sure epilogue related stuff works correctly, or maybe it’s that some play the game from a detached, passive perspective (the cinematic crowd) and merrily skip the sidequests in some childish race to the finish line. [/quote]

The stuff with all of Morrigan's buggy dialogue that irks me is that they clearly went to the effort to write and record those lines- and yet it got messed up in the programming and they don't even bother to fix stuff like that. Stuff that while it might not break the game technically, it breaks the story of the game and can give you wrong impressions of characters and events- which in a BioWare game are the bread and butter really. Thats one reason why I'll definitely be getting The Witcher 2, as the guys at CD Projekt did an amazing job fixing The Witcher and going the extra mile with the enhanced editions and how they released it for free for anyone that had the original. That sort of dedication in fixing the game was missing in Origins, for whatever reason.

But I agree- so often its the beginning of the game thats polished and the further you go in, the buggier it gets, which is just an insult to those finishing the game.  And like WH showed, when you even have buggy dialogue in the climax of the whole game, thats a serious head scratcher.


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
For BioWare’s fantasy games, console players really have to understand that switching to PC will benefit everyone in the long term (even if you can't do so now, keep it in mind for the future), if BW continue to focus on consoles, everyone will have their hands tied with (potentially) no toolset and the console manufacturers idiotic filesize limits on patches, thereby we’ll all get to “enjoy” buggy, unfixable games – fantastic… [/quote]

It just harkens back to Riccitello's defense of MoH earlier, I get the impression that unless the game is critically bugged such that it'll hurt sales, most publishers/devs don't want to bother with patches as there isn't any money in that. Which is terribly myopic, as you provide crap support for a game post release but gladly churn out DLC for sale and that, to me, shows me you really don't care about the quality of product, you only care about it long enough for somebody to shell out $50 or $60 for it.

And yes, part of my disinterest for DA2 stems from the fact that there WILL be messed up dialogue and such- and given Origins and ME2's lack of patching those sort of story issues, without a toolset we'll never know what was broken- or we will realize something is broken but unless its something on the scale of WH, we'll just never know what should have happened- and that can "break" the story of a game just as much as any technical crash can break a game.



[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Well, from what I’ve seen DA2 still isn’t leagues ahead of DA:O (at least not as far as BioWare would have us believe), the lighting was the worst part of DA:O imo so any improvements on that front will be most welcome. Graphics generally aren’t that important in RPGs anyway, and that applies across the board from the niche stuff to the mainstream. Part of the negative graphical stigma for DA:O came from the Xbox bro crowd who weren’t impressed with the… “optimisations” to textures for the 360 version. Regardless, what’s done is done, lets hope we don’t need another overhaul anytime soon.[/quote]

In the DA2 video from today, the graphics, specifically the ground, look a little better- but surely not that much better than Origins. It seems like the DA2 overhaul is really just a a band aid on a gaping wound, thats only going to begin festering with time if BioWare is so focused on the graphics. I mean, unless they churn out games as fast as possiblem, DA3 won't be coming out for probably 2 years post DA2, so about March 2013? WOuld they still be using Eclipse on the next Xbox or whatever? Is it that scaleable?



[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
But in light of all the info we have on DA2, I’d prefer not to see her in it at all, it'd be fairly risky to be out and about with Flemeth on the prowl.[/quote]
Definitely. Especially because if Morrigan just shows up with no sign of the Warden in DA2? RAAAAAAGE.

 

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
"Cinematics" is by and large a lot of smoke and mirrors to cover for deficiencies in other areas, wasted effort that could go into actual gameplay imo. Its like in the heyday of Final Fantasy or even the Metal Gear Solid series, they attract criticism because they’re bursting into cinematics/passive FMV every other step. The player should be dictating the flow in my mind, a highly cinematic game packs a lot of punch the first time through, but it’s always a one-trick pony and the cracks in that shiny exterior become very apparent in subsequent playthroughs.[/quote]

Yeah, just look at the DA2 video again from today. You've got lots of low angle shots of the characters and some close ups. Yet all those do is serve to highlight how robotic and dead the characters look. Unless those are placeholder animations or something, the ME2 presentations is simply highlighting all the deficiencies of DA's graphics/animation.

 

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
That sums it up quite nicely, of course it does depend on what role Morrigan plays. If she’s too cameo-esque (Flemeth) then it could easily come off as moustache twirling generic villain, if she’s a party member that could potentially limit her role in the larger plot, then again maybe not. In my view, the warden should be present if we want to see a multi-faceted personality for Morrigan without it seeming contrived.[/quote]

Right- its the same problem Flemeth has. By only seeing her in snippets, she just comes across as a rather one note sort of hidden agenda type character. Morrigan clearly has a hidden agenda too, but the Warden is able to get to know her as a ahuman being so that when she does reveal the DR, she (should have) comes across as human and conflicted and not just a moustahce twirling villain.

So especially if you're not playing as the Warden and Morrigan only has some kind of Flemeth NPC type role, it would be hard to buy into anything she says. Since we know she is even evasive as all hell even with a Warden that loves her, so its not like she'd even be more forthcoming to a stranger PC. Tossing her into the story without the Warden, given how WH can end, would just feel extremely forced to me and would likely break BioWare's claim of "no canon" in my view.



[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Going in a different direction on occasion is fine, but it has to be working toward something, moving with purpose if you will and crucially it has to wrap up or build upon the initial hanging plot threads within a reasonable timeframe. BioWare’s presentation of Hawke as “more important” than anything else in existence in the early DA2 reveal stages did them no favours in the transition period.[/quote]

Exactly- DA2 setting up things is fine, if its actually setting up things for the future in a logical fashion. The problem is that with Origins there are still a good many loose end, which we have no clue if they'll be given any resolution. So do we know if DA2 is actually setting anything up or just setting up even more loose ends to be left forgotten.

The thing is that you move away from those loose ends for too long and people lose interest. Thats the problem with the DR- a good number of people wanted to see how that played out in DA2 and beyond that, we have no clue when or if BioWare will handle that in a satisfactory way. Unlike ME, where we can be sure that Shepard's story will be finished. And that promise of closure and resolution is what has people interested in ME3. WIth DA, you don't have that level of anticipation beyond vague notions, since apparently characters are disposable seeing as DA is all about Thedas.

 

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
DA2 seems to be like the chapters in a book that serve as filler, something you have to plough through in order to get back to the good stuff. Not that I'm saying DA2 won't be a good game in and of itself, but that one thread is always in the back of your mind.[/quote]

Yeah, until I can see otherwise, DA2 just seems like  some diversion from the main story I'm invested in, the Warden and Morrigan. Its like if you start watching a good sports game or something on TV only to have your girlfriend drag you out to a movie in the middle of the game, You'll begrudgingly go along and maybe have a good time, but you can't help but check your watch and wonder whats going on in the game. But if you had been able to finish watching the game, then your full attention would have been on the movie:happy:



[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Indeed, it’s funny how willing some are to just roll over and accept a hand waving. “Experience the consequences of your DA:O warden’s actions first hand in DA2! (via 50 exquisitely crafted emails letters ).”[/quote]
I'm willing to bet all our imported consequences will be handled via stories in the Kirkwall newspaper that'll probably be delivered to Hawke's estate or maybe town criers or via a handful of random dudes walking through the street.



[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
I do hope that some of the DA2 setup is groundwork for something involving the GWs. [/quote]
Definitely- that would at least give me something to look forward to in DA.


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
As I’ve said before, instead of crap like Feastday and DS Chronicles, funnel some of that cash into solidifying the existing plot (since most DLCs have no intention of moving it forward).[/quote]
Yeah, again, I'd go back to CD Projekt and The Witcher, that game was broken on release and they spent the time to fix it and get it in good shape. I dare say I'd pay for a patch to fix the game rather than add worthless content to it via DLC. But they should just have the foresight to delay the game if its bug ridden and they know it- or provide proper patch support.

 

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
I’d agree with that assessment. Using WH as an example, for non-Morri romancers it’s dancing on a knife edge with how little it reveals, touting it as the warden’s final quest, the gift which potentially goes unexplained. The way Morrigan’s speech has been interpreted as an advert for DA2 / poke at the players (feelings which I believe Gaider assuaged in a post somewhere) was a particularly dangerous move imo. [/quote]
Definitely- and for those that didn't romance Morrigan, and especially if nothing comes of the gift or the Warden when Morrigan returns, then WH really was just an ad for DA2.



[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
The Soldier thing is interesting though like you mentioned – how do they interpret and differentiate between different scenarios. Iirc Soldier Is the default/highlighted class for ME2, so bearing that in mind, if players just hammer a certain button just to get into the game, can you really still classify that telemetry as admissible?[/quote]
Yeah, thats tricky. That data could just as easily end up messing up things as it could help the devs highlight how people play games. Its all in how they analyze it and draw conclusions from it.

 


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Completely agree, there’s a significant timespan in between the release of any game and its sequel, as DA2 adds new plot threads to the fray, those from DA:O get pushed out of your mind and they lose their significance. It comes down to how big of a gamble are BioWare willing to take in my eyes. Much like if they think simply “bringing Morrigan back, period” is some sort of silver bullet for fan appeasement, doing it wrong will likely lose you a significant portion of the audience in much the same way that constantly promising answers but giving nothing will wear thin with time.[/quote]

Absolutely. Like we've said, just bringing Morrigan back like it will be some instant win button isn't the case at all. You bring Morrigan back with no Warden or in some equally lackluster way, you're probably going to tick off a good number of people invested in DA. And surely if they have some plans for Morrigan's return they need to keep that in the player's mind while they work to get there. Otherwise any anticipation or excitement over it just dissipates really quick.


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Make a change to their facial appearance however and the player is thrown into confusion. Good catch on the InFamous Cole issue - you can't change a major character design at such a fundamental level and not expect a backlash. Coming back to the comments from SonFrancisco way back up the page – if the player is doing a double take because maybe the character has a new outfit/hairstyle/aged somewhat, that’s fine, if it’s because they’ve drastically altered that character’s appearance then not so much. There are cases where due to technological advances the new may indeed look better than the old, but that's generally most noticable in the jump from one console generation to the next.[/quote]

Exactly- the tech doesn't seem to be taking some drastic jump like Super Nintendo to XBOX 360 or anything. If anything I'm thinking the "upgraded" graphics look like a sidestep graphically. Its fine if the character's hair or wardrobe changes or they age, like you mentioned, but face wise they need to be readily identifiable. If Drunk Alistair is sporting a grubby beard, yet they've changed the face, youwouldn't even know its him until you hear Steve Valentine speak- and for a cameo or any returning character that defeats the purpose behing bringing them back. And given how all the DA2 faces look very odd and animate oddly, thats my concern- that the face morph system in DA2 is just really weird- such that maybe its technically more advanced or better than Origins, but the end product doesn't look convincing IMO.


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Probably has some deeper meaning, check back for DA15 and maybe we'll get some answers. Almost certainly dragon related, a subject she comments on during the Sacred Ashes quest.[/quote]
Yeah, I don't think its a conincidence that Morrigan and Flemeth are seemingly 2 major players in the DA universe and this time in hostory is the DRAGON Age. I think eventually the precise meaning of that will become clear- beyond just the return of dragons, I think its mentioned that it means the Dragon Age is suppose dto be a time of upheaval and turmoil- which jives with Morrigan's change speech.

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Definitely something there. Flemeth's might be a different shade to signify a difference in power/age maybe? What colour were Morrigan's eyes in the concepts?[/quote]
Hmmm... I remember in the early walkthrough video, Morrigan had ...blue eyes? O rmaybe green? In the concept art she has sort of yellow eyes I guess. In some its hard to tell:





[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Yeah, I think a lot of what annoyed people with the initial Hawke mishandling was how he was pushed as "the most important" which more or less undermines the DA:O warden who was very much a player-construct while Hawke is more BW-defined imo. To be told categorically that the warden is dead and Morrigan's story is to be concluded without the one other individual that is deeply involved in it would be pathetic.[/quote]
Definitely. Shooing off the Warden who was much more hand crafted than BioWare's stock Hawke, especially when your Warden might still be out there, was rather off putting. Especially when we have no reason to think Hawke is anything more than some chump who fled the Blight.


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
VO only exists for the protagonist for the benefit of those who like to be spoon fed everything, in this case it serves to provide the emotion for the line since some players apparently can't use their imagination to infer intent within games, somewhat shocking for a medium the amalgamates elements of cinema and literature. The warden being voiced or not would depend on his/her role in DA3.[/quote]
Exactly. Its just sad that people just want all RPGs to be more cinematic, taking the literature element out of it.Its just so less interesting to me, glancing at some quick blurbs then being forced to watch a cutscene versus having the agency to look at the full text of each choice and the instant you select it, you get the response.


quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Understand that a warden that just vanishes after a mirror world ending is repeating the exact same problem as was present in Origins (even moreso now) and would be seen as incredibly weak from the perspective of Morri thread regulars.[/quote]
Absolutely- the nice thing with Witch Hunt is that the Warden can go with Morrigan. Yet if Morrigan shows up in the future without the Warden? We're right back at square one, post DR. Ugh.

quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Single line write-offs of the player's previous characters (to make room for a BW defined epic hero) goes beyond belittling player agency in my mind.[/quote]
Couldn't agree more Terra.

quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
After the litany of (still unresolved by BW) bugs regarding Morrigan, the bone that was the Eluvian ending amounting to nothing would be the killing blow for me because frankly it's not even funny anymore. DA is the first IP in a decade to come close to matching BG in terms of scale and the potential of where the plot can go, seeing BW make the same mistakes they made with the NWN model again would be tragic.[/quote]
Absolutely- the DA world is great, I love the lore and everything. Origins started out on the right foot. DA2? I have no clue where they're going and I'm wondering if BioWare really knows either.

quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
 You've kept players in suspense for 2-4~ years for what- nothing. The Awakening epilogue slide which occurs at an undetermined time in the future indicates we will get *something* regarding the warden in the future though.[/quote]
Right- a cliffhanger is only good if you get some payoff in a reasonable time frame. Otherwise its not a cliffhanger, its a plot hole.


quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
I believe Gaider stated in this very thread way back something along the lines that BW isn't obligated to continue plot thread X, etc, so while they could certainly tout that defense my response is the same as was back then- don't start what you don't intend to finish (especially not in the closing moments of a game) or you'll be left with players who lack confidence in your franchise. If your warden did the DR or instigated it via Alistair/Loghain then that player character shouldn't be divorced of the consequences.[/quote]
Exactly. That may have been in his "myopic" post:

[quote]David Gaider wrote...

[quote]tom2504 wrote...
But  because of the way the game ended - like you said - it should  understandable for people to build up the sequel in their head and keep  remaining characters, plots and what-not in it. I don't believe It's  myopic at all, considering DAO's ending.
[/quote]
Well, all I'm  saying is that there are many possibilities. Continuing the storyline  with the same characters and same continuity has its advantages,  certainly, but also its drawbacks -- many of which people have already  outlined. Selecting a canon timeline or simply starting with something  completely different also has its advantages and drawbacks. It can seem a little bit like "damned if you do, damned if you don't" but ultimately  I'd like to think there are a lot of ways we could go, and each of them  has things which make that choice attractive to me as a writer.

Naturally leaving plot threads dangling is not the best way to go, in my opinion, but it should also be realized that the point of a new story should not and could not be solely to resolve dangling plot threads. As enticing as those may be, they're a tool we have available  to use in the future in order to make a better story -- the commitment  I'm seeing to them is certainly complementary (it's nice to see that  fans care that much) but whenever we're discussing any element of  Origin's story you need to realize that it's only part of the story... and that for many fans it may not even be a big part of it.

In the end, we recognize that it's there and people will want to see more. I can't really say more than that. I don't advocate writer-borne cruelty to fans-- not unless the tears that result are really sweet. Then I might be tempted. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]
[/quote]

But yeah, I agree Terra- don't start something, at the end of the game no less, if you don't intend of finishing it properly.

quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Me & Brock previously discussed how powerful text can be, yet wield that in the wrong way - such as the Viconia epilogue or a codex write off and you can pretty much invalidate everything that "made" DA:O for the player.[/quote]
Bingo!


quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
If I can have an option to turn the voice off, it's fine.  A voiced PC defines that character to an extent, its inescapable and your roleplaying options are hampered by it. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie][/quote]
Its why I have a dreadful time in ME trying to make different Shepards- the voice just doesn't match the appearance sometimes, especially if you try to make Shepard anything besides a white guy.

quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Yep, considering Gaider's comments on the Awakening epilogue, I think we will hear about the warden's disappearance before the taint kicks in. Of course this could be as a codex reference or something but I'm hoping it ties in with the change and DA2's lengthier timeline.[/quote]

Hmmm... of note, in that DA2 video (I just realized it was pulled off youtube by EA)- Flemeth tells Hawke that the thing she wants delivered to the Dalish clan is an "amulet." Hmmmm...... any relation to the amulets from the Calling? Probably not, but the fact is taht Flemeth says its an amulet and not a package as other previously said.

Modifié par Brockololly, 03 novembre 2010 - 10:41 .

[Esbatty]

Terra:Yes, I do indeed write the stories parts at work. But the bulk of the actual story conjuring is done while puttering about at home or while commuting etc. So basically I outline throughout the week in my head and sometimes jot down notes or dictate into my mp3 player's mic, then when I get a free hour or so at work I type the sucker out. So yeah... no editing whatsoever except for internal edits. Thus how contractions in Morrigan's talky-talky gets in there.



i work at a TV station in Master Control but its the damn graveyard shift so basically just catching feeds off the satellites and making sure the building doesn't burn down. Its all done on computers and i'm just there to catch tape back ups and put together the show and traffic lists we play the next day. So yeah I got time to write lol



Also, yeah Morrigan's face in the piece isn't spot on because Po has his own style and I dig it. I really hope to rope in Xi for a commission (I'm very very patient and very willing to pay), for something not as ... nude. And yes the Morrigan piece is part of the cmmissions for In The Land Of Ever. I'm gonna take a crack at coloring them during my Week off in december.