16179 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

blademaster7 wrote...
Second line." I should have killed you long ago."

Same as above. Some people may feel the need to say it regardless of approval, but the "long ago" part just doesn't seem right. It's like  saying "I should have killed you when i loved you". No logic in that.

The PC could be referring to when they first met. Perhaps change it to say so? 

[Count Viceroy]

Thats the morph i use. I didn't mind the original looks but I thought these were an improvement. In fact the only character I have which uses their original morph is Alistair.

[Brockololly]

blademaster7 wrote...

Two lines need to be linked to your approval IMO.

First one is the "Finally decided to betray me, have you?"

This is right after she anounnces her presence. It makes no sense whatsoever for a friend/lover to say that. She hasn't said anything yet.

This line should only be available if her approval is neutral or hostile. (<25)

Second line." I should have killed you long ago."

Same as above. Some people may feel the need to say it regardless of approval, but the "long ago" part just doesn't seem right. It's like  saying "I should have killed you when i loved you". No logic in that.


There is also the matter of Morrigan asking her lover to convince Alistair/Loghain. For me, that is the most disturbing tning about the DR. I'm sure you agree.

Here's my suggestions.

1. Remove it completely. If Morrigan is in love with the player and he turns her down, she walks out and leaves. No send me to another man BS.

2. Leave it as it is... but... if the player agrees to convice either Loghain or Alistair, the decision should come with a ROMANCE_CUT_OFF flag. Maybe a -100 approval drop as well.


Those are not necessary. Just my opinions. It's up to you.

I don't know, I really don't have a problem with those dialogue choices as they are in the game.  The betrayal one is ok even if you romance her since she is pretty sketchy throughout the whole game.

The "I should have killed you" line is ok too- I think the sentiment of the line is important there even for a romancing Warden and the "long ago" part just emphasizes how Morrigan has been a bit sketchy and mysterious from the get go.

And as for Morrigan asking you to convince someone else besides the romancing Warden to do the Ritual with her. I don't know- I'd leave that in because really,obviously at this point Morrigan has set aside her feelings for the Warden to do whatever it is she is seeking to do with the Old God Baby and nothing- not even her love for the Warden- is going to stop her. And if that means sleeping with Alistair, Loghain or some other Grey Warden she'll do it. She's that motivated to get it done. Doesn't mean it seems a bit extreme, but thats how it plays out in the end and thats why she leaves the Warden even if you do the Ritual. Apparently its super duper important to her and she's going to get it done no matter the cost.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Brockololly wrote...
And as for Morrigan asking you to convince someone else besides the romancing Warden to do the Ritual with her. I don't know- I'd leave that in because really,obviously at this point Morrigan has set aside her feelings for the Warden to do whatever it is she is seeking to do with the Old God Baby and nothing- not even her love for the Warden- is going to stop her. And if that means sleeping with Alistair, Loghain or some other Grey Warden she'll do it. She's that motivated to get it done. Doesn't mean it seems a bit extreme, but thats how it plays out in the end and thats why she leaves the Warden even if you do the Ritual. Apparently its super duper important to her and she's going to get it done no matter the cost.

I don't fully agree with that. I do not think Morrigan has set aside her feelings. She does say, and I believe her, that the fact she cares about the Warden and wants him to live makes her even more determined to get the ritual done.
That was also the theme in the new comic that Gaider worked with. Morrigan cried because of the prospect of losing a friend, so I would think she is even more concerned if she is in love with the Warden.

However if her feelings and what she has to do clash, she would choose what she has to do yes. That doesn't necessarily mean she caste aside her feelings.

[Master Shiori]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I don't fully agree with that. I do not think Morrigan has set aside her feelings. She does say, and I believe her, that the fact she cares about the Warden and wants him to live makes her even more determined to get the ritual done.
That was also the theme in the new comic that Gaider worked with. Morrigan cried because of the prospect of losing a friend, so I would think she is even more concerned if she is in love with the Warden.

However if her feelings and what she has to do clash, she would choose what she has to do yes. That doesn't necessarily mean she caste aside her feelings.

True, she does care about the Warden.

It is, as she admits, just one more reason why the ritual is so important to her.

The way I see it, both Morrigan and the Warden, are pretty much in the same boat at this point. They both care about each other but at he same time they have a duty that takes precedence over their feelings.

For the Warden this means stopping the Blight, something that he cannot abandon.

For Morrigan it's getting the a child with a soul of an old god. She either cannot or will not give up on that, even at the cost of losing the man she loves.

[blademaster7]

Brockololly wrote...

And as for Morrigan asking you to convince someone else besides the romancing Warden to do the Ritual with her. I don't know- I'd leave that in because really,obviously at this point Morrigan has set aside her feelings for the Warden to do whatever it is she is seeking to do with the Old God Baby and nothing- not even her love for the Warden- is going to stop her. And if that means sleeping with Alistair, Loghain or some other Grey Warden she'll do it. She's that motivated to get it done. Doesn't mean it seems a bit extreme, but thats how it plays out in the end and thats why she leaves the Warden even if you do the Ritual. Apparently its super duper important to her and she's going to get it done no matter the cost.

I never doubted the fact that Morrigan wanted to do the ritual no matter what the circumstances. She's desperate enough to do it with Alistair for all I know.

But asking her lover to send her to another man? That doesn't seem right to me. She makes an argument that he won't listen to her but he will listen to you. Well, If I don't want to do it what makes you think Alistair will?

And speaking of Alistair, he's just as bad in this case.

PC: Hey, we're friends right?
Alistair: Damn right. I hate you for making me king, but ,yes, we are friends.
PC: Go sleep with my woman... in my bed.. she wants your child
Alistair: Ok, I'll do it...

I really think this shouldn't have been an option... but to each his own.

Modifié par blademaster7, 22 avril 2010 - 06:48 .

[Terra_Ex]

blademaster7 wrote...
The "So what do I have to do to get on your good side?" discussion should not be available if you already slept with her. Maybe not even available if the romance is active in it's latter stages(70+ approval). In vanilla, you can bring it up whenever you want(even at 100 love).

That was supposed to be a pre-romance flirting.... can you put a flag or something?

Speaking of flags... a few dialogue options during the DR need revision. i have a few suggestions about that but if you're not willing to change anything, then I will forget  it. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

I agree with this one, it doesn't make a great deal of sense if Morrigan and the Warden are romantically involved and in a serious relationship for this dialog to present itself.

blademaster7 wrote...
Two lines need to be linked to your approval IMO.

First one is the "Finally decided to betray me, have you?"

This is right after she anounnces her presence. It makes no sense whatsoever for a friend/lover to say that. She hasn't said anything yet.

This line should only be available if her approval is neutral or hostile. (<25)

Second line." I should have killed you long ago."

Same as above. Some people may feel the need to say it regardless of approval, but the "long ago" part just doesn't seem right. It's like  saying "I should have killed you when i loved you". No logic in that.


There is also the matter of Morrigan asking her lover to convince Alistair/Loghain. For me, that is the most disturbing tning about the DR. I'm sure you agree.

Here's my suggestions.

1. Remove it completely. If Morrigan is in love with the player and he turns her down, she walks out and leaves. No send me to another man BS.

2. Leave it as it is... but... if the player agrees to convice either Loghain or Alistair, the decision should come with a ROMANCE_CUT_OFF flag. Maybe a -100 approval drop as well.

Those are not necessary. Just my opinions. It's up to you.

These unfortunately would be me tweaking the game to my own liking and interpretation rather than fixing the problems with Morrigan's dialog. Much as I'd like to see changes in the Dark Ritual to make it more reactive to the player's relationship with Morrigan, its not my place to determine Morrigan's true motivations/feelings in the scene.

The dark ritual is what it is, and I'd only be happy to change that conditional branch if the writers themselves popped in and approved it. I'd foresee a lot of complaints if I made this change, we can certainly speculate as to her motivations in this scene, but only the writer, presumably Gaider since he was responsible for writing her character can say for sure why. I would hate to enforce my interpretation on the scene. So I think this one will stay as is, Brockololly & KnightofPhoenix also brought up some good points on this issue, so I definitely appreciate all of your opinions on the matter.

Nonvita wrote...
And Terra_Ex, I love you for working with Charsen an Ej. Thoughtful modders like you are such a treasure. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

lol, its no problem whatsoever, its me that should be thanking them tbh . In the industry, nothing gets done if you don't work as part of a team. Both have been more than accomodating of my requests for assistance and information - its a pleasure working with both of them.



There's one more issue thats still up in the air - the "When I asked you to share my tent" dialog (which unlocks when she refuses to sleep with you) branch is available permanently once its been unlocked, allowing you to repeat this discussion as many times as you want. I think this dialog was meant as a one-time only event, what does everyone else think?

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 22 avril 2010 - 07:23 .

[blademaster7]

Terra_Ex wrote...
I agree with this one, it doesn't make a great deal of sense if Morrigan and the Warden are romantically involved and in a serious relationship for this dialog to present itself.

If you bring that topic she will ask you if you want something more... "intimate"

I'm pretty sure it was intended to trigger for players that haven't slept with her yet.

Fair enough about the DR..

Terra_Ex wrote...
There's one more issue thats still up in the air - the "When I asked you to share my tent" dialog (which unlocks when she refuses to sleep with you) branch is available permanently once its been unlocked, allowing you to repeat this discussion as many times as you want. I think this dialog was meant as a one-time only event, what does everyone else think?

That's the part with the missing kiss right? That should be a one time event, no doubt.  It's not a common thing to force Morrigan to act like that.

[Terra_Ex]

blademaster7 wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...
There's one more issue thats still up in the air - the "When I asked you to share my tent" dialog (which unlocks when she refuses to sleep with you) branch is available permanently once its been unlocked, allowing you to repeat this discussion as many times as you want. I think this dialog was meant as a one-time only event, what does everyone else think?

That's the part with the missing kiss right? That should be a one time event, no doubt.  It's not a common thing to force Morrigan to act like that.

Yep, its that same scene. I've just discussed the Denerim gates dialog fix with Charsen & ejoslin and my initial release will fix the broken dialog for Morrigan in that scene. 

To answer your earlier question -ejoslin's mod is fully compatible with mine (you will need to remove morrigan_main files from her installation in order for mine to work, but I'll type up the process later today) and her changes to the gate scene will override my changes to that scene (which is fine, since we use the same fix and ZDF contains many additional fixes to that scene). So, you will be able to use the initial version with, or without ZDF.

[blademaster7]

Great! I can't wait to test the mod. I'm playing a new character right now btw.

I just met her...




Click at your own risk

[Master Shiori]

blademaster7 wrote...

Great! I can't wait to test the mod. I'm playing a new character right now btw.

I just met her...




Click at your own risk

Nice to see I'm not the only one who started a new character just to try out Morrigan's dialogue fix.

(well, I started 2 new chars to be precise...)


Oh, and that's just a classic line from Alistair.

[blademaster7]

Master Shiori wrote...
Nice to see I'm not the only one who started a new character just to try out Morrigan's dialogue fix.

Well, that's not really the reason I started a new character. It will take me forever to get to the endgame with the pace I'm playing.

Besides, I have a lot of saves with other characters. I can check the fixes pretty quickly.

[Terra_Ex]

I actually just read Gaider's foreword comments regarding the DR on Aimo's comic (I'd somehow missed his commentary despite reading the rest of it several times) - which I believe you touched upon earlier blademaster. Definitely disappointing to note that it was cut down from what was intended, and it has had a distinctly negative impact on how people perceive Morrigan. I wish there were some appropriate recorded voiceovers hidden somewhere in the toolset that could be used to reconstruct it, still, its gratifying to know what was actually intended. I'm sure he's just as annoyed as the rest of us tbh, its all very reminiscent of Throne of Bhaal's chopped down ending.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 22 avril 2010 - 09:27 .

[Brockololly]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I don't fully agree with that. I do not think Morrigan has set aside her feelings. She does say, and I believe her, that the fact she cares about the Warden and wants him to live makes her even more determined to get the ritual done.
That was also the theme in the new comic that Gaider worked with. Morrigan cried because of the prospect of losing a friend, so I would think she is even more concerned if she is in love with the Warden.

However if her feelings and what she has to do clash, she would choose what she has to do yes. That doesn't necessarily mean she caste aside her feelings.

Yeah- I guess it would be better stated that Morrigan is trying to set aside her feelings for the Warden. She obviously genuinely cares for the well being of the Warden and sees the Ritual not only as a means to get her Old God Baby but also as a means to save someone she has unexpectedly fallen in love with or become true friends with. The Aimo comic I think makes it clear that beneath her harsh exterior Morrigan does care, I don't doubt that at all.

I guess I'm a bit confused since at least how it is in the game, it seems like Morrigan's primary motivation in doing the Ritual is for the Old God Baby and she tacks on the notion that it will save a Grey Warden's life as a means to motivate the Warden's own self preservation. That was just my impression of the scene- but a large part of that is because I think Morrigan just comes off as too sinister and cold in presenting her proposal to the Warden. If she had seemed more emotionally conflicted in that scene, kind of like how she is in Aimo's comic, I would have bought in to the scene a bit more.

Master Shiori wrote...
The way I see it, both Morrigan and the Warden, are pretty much in the
same boat at this point. They both care about each other but at he same
time they have a duty that takes precedence over their feelings.

For the Warden this means stopping the Blight, something that he cannot abandon.

For Morrigan it's getting the a child with a soul of an old god. She either cannot or will not give up on that, even at the cost of losing the man she loves.

Agree- I guess when you look at it that way it makes the Warden and Morrigan tragic, star crossed lovers in a sense. The frustrating aspect of it all and I've said this a billion times, is that we don't know why Morrigan needs to leave and this lack of explanation seems like sequel bait to me.

Modifié par Brockololly, 22 avril 2010 - 09:38 .

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Agree- I guess when you look at it that way it makes the Warden and Morrigan tragic, star crossed lovers in a sense. The frustrating aspect of it all and I've said this a billion times, is that we don't know why Morrigan needs to leave and this lack of explanation seems like sequel bait to me.

It is a sequal bait.

Like i said a few pages back, Bioware appears to have made significant changes to DA:O's story during the development process. One of those changes appears to be the introduction of a whole dark ritual and God child deal.

Further proof that they're planning to do something with this is a note you can pickpocket from Trickster Wrim during the "Summoning sciences" quest in the Mage Tower.

The note is called "The Notes of Arl Foreshadow" and contains interesting bits of info in regards to what happens in Origins and what we know could happen in the sequal.

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...

Like i said a few pages back, Bioware appears to have made significant changes to DA:O's story during the development process. One of those changes appears to be the introduction of a whole dark ritual and God child deal.

Further proof that they're planning to do something with this is a note you can pickpocket from Trickster Wrim during the "Summoning sciences" quest in the Mage Tower.

The note is called "The Notes of Arl Foreshadow" and contains interesting bits of info in regards to what happens in Origins and what we know could happen in the sequal.

Yeah, I don't know- its entirely possible they introduced the Dark Ritual and Old God Baby late in development but I'm kind of skeptical. I think that maybe its more like they ended up having to make a bunch of cuts (like the cuts mentioned by Gaider in the Aimo comic) which might have made it necessary for Bioware to re-configure how the ending played out. Again, I have no clue thats just my speculation.

But as for Arl Foreshadow- yeah I beleive he went by Lord Foreshadow back in BG. He certainly mentions some interesting things, as he had also hinted at Neverwinter Nights  back in BG. It will be interesting to see if anything in that note pans out...

[KnightofPhoenix]

Brockololly wrote...
I guess I'm a bit confused since at least how it is in the game, it seems like Morrigan's primary motivation in doing the Ritual is for the Old God Baby and she tacks on the notion that it will save a Grey Warden's life as a means to motivate the Warden's own self preservation. That was just my impression of the scene- but a large part of that is because I think Morrigan just comes off as too sinister and cold in presenting her proposal to the Warden. If she had seemed more emotionally conflicted in that scene, kind of like how she is in Aimo's comic, I would have bought in to the scene a bit more. 

Yea agreed. But I felt that I truly did understand her character, so the scene, despite its coldness, did not make me doubt my understanding of her. And I wasn't wrong (not trying to brag here or anything). But yes it is a shame they couldn't have made the Ritual the way it was supposed to be. Would have made it much more emotionally engaging and painful.

About the arl of foreshadow. Apparently he hints at Orlais being in the sequel if I am not mistaken. That's where Morrigan is heading as well. So it could be delt with. Hopefully.

BTW the maturity and thought-out posts in this thread prove that Morrigan fans are better than others  

[Nonvita]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
BTW the maturity and thought-out posts in this thread prove that Morrigan fans are better than others  

*Ahem*



Hmmm, as for the comic that was released, I honestly think it has no place in the game. First, it doesn't work for anyone who's not a friend/lover to Morrigan. Second, it forces emotions too much. As it is now, she comes across as more cold and unfeeling than she actually is, but it works because it forces you to make the choice based only on your character's personal feelings. Does your character really trust her enough to go through with the ritual? If you're romancing her, then I'd hope it's obvious that she has deeper feelings she's not revealing, so the scene from the comic is unnecessary.

It's nice to see it outside the game, but it would be really disruptive were it actually implemented.

Still, in a lot of ways Bioware has dug themselves into a deep hole with the Morrigan romance. Due to leaving things so vague, Origins in and of itself feels incomplete for those who romance her. This means that whatever happens in the future will have a huge impact on people's views of Origins itself. If expansions/sequels handle the romance well, then it'll be a net positive. If, however, future plots end up being predictable or uninteresting, it will make people question the need for so much secrecy in Origins itself. Had there been some sort of completion to the romance within Origins, then future messups might be more forgiveable.

(Speaking of which, Charsen is working on Morrigan kisses at the City Gates (and Terra with your Morrigan fix), so that would indeed help offer a more satisfactory ending to the romance.)

[KnightofPhoenix]

Nonvita wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
BTW the maturity and thought-out posts in this thread prove that Morrigan fans are better than others  

*Ahem*



Hmmm, as for the comic that was released, I honestly think it has no place in the game. First, it doesn't work for anyone who's not a friend/lover to Morrigan. Second, it forces emotions too much. As it is now, she comes across as more cold and unfeeling than she actually is, but it works because it forces you to make the choice based only on your character's personal feelings. Does your character really trust her enough to go through with the ritual? If you're romancing her, then I'd hope it's obvious that she has deeper feelings she's not revealing, so the scene from the comic is unnecessary.

It's nice to see it outside the game, but it would be really disruptive were it actually implemented.

I definately agree that showing her cry is not only unnecessary in the game, but it would have been cheap. Morrigan doesn't cry in front of anyone, that would look like as if she is begging. The comic is an out-game thing.
I think the problem however is that she appeared too cold and some would say sinister and the romance is not really taken into account (except for one sentence or two).

But you know, you actually gave me a different perspective of this. In some ways, this is the test of faith. It's like the game asking us: do you think you know Morrigan? Do you trust that she loves your character? I say, nay scream, YES! And I think I am right for now.

Eh, the more I think about it, the less unsatisifying the Ritual scene becomes. 
Thank you Nonvita, for restoring my bitter sweet love for the dark ritual scene.  (BTW, I think Morrigan looks unusually beautiful in that scene, for some reason. Maybe it's the lighting).
 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 avril 2010 - 11:31 .

[CybAnt1]

Count Viceroy wrote...



Thats the morph i use. I didn't mind the original looks but I thought these were an improvement. In fact the only character I have which uses their original morph is Alistair.

Interesting. It certainly makes Morrigan look more beautiful (of course, this is a matter of personal taste, but it seems that way to me.) 

I'm also wondering if it makes her look more like her VA, Claudia Black -- or the other actress that immediately sprung to mind was .... Rachel Weisz. 

[Nonvita]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Interesting. It certainly makes Morrigan look more beautiful (of course, this is a matter of personal taste, but it seems that way to me.) 

I'm also wondering if it makes her look more like her VA, Claudia Black -- or the other actress that immediately sprung to mind was .... Rachel Weisz.

Yes, it's modeled after Claudia Black. It's one of the options in the DA Redesigned mod. I use an earlier version that keeps the original hairstyle.

[Axekix]

Nonvita wrote...

CybAnt1 wrote...

Interesting. It certainly makes Morrigan look more beautiful (of course, this is a matter of personal taste, but it seems that way to me.) 

I'm also wondering if it makes her look more like her VA, Claudia Black -- or the other actress that immediately sprung to mind was .... Rachel Weisz.

Yes, it's modeled after Claudia Black. It's one of the options in the DA Redesigned mod. I use an earlier version that keeps the original hairstyle.

I never could get used to that hair style on Morrigan.  It just seems so... impractical. 

Maybe it could work for when she lets her hair down in camp...

[Barbarossa2010]

AlanC9 wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
This sounds like a lead-in of the thousands that have hammered on blademaster and myself because we dare to possess a heretical view from community orthodoxy

If you don't actually want to get into those fights you shouldn't keep proclaiming that you're a heretic. I read of your position three times this week --  "of your position" since you weren't actually saying what the position is until now. Though I can understand not wanting to keep repeating the substance. Maybe you should put it in your sig?

And I thank you for returning to this anyway.

Having said that; first of all, there is no intent to mislead. 

(snip)
 
Secondly: Technically you are correct, there are other choices, but as you have stated they are “not necessarily any better” unless of course one thinks that letting a woman you are supposedly romancing, sleep with another man is a valid choice; that was just not an option for my Warden.  If there were choices other than these, then my failure to mention them was merely an oversight probably due to them being unremarkable, rather than any intent to mislead.

My point was that you know better. Saying there are two choices isn't even effective as rhetoric, since it gives anyone who doesn't already agree license to disregard your entire point. 

Another choice is to refuse the DR but get someone else to do the US, of course. So in your language it's chump time (in two flavors), sacrifice your warden, or sacrifice Alistair (other option locked out by the time you get to the DR).

As for the substance:

Sure, Morrigan doesn't do a very good job of convincing you to do the DR. She's no good at convincing anyone to do anything. Having spent her whole life not being concerned about what other people think, feel, or do, it's a little late for her to start playing this game now.

Saying that your Warden thought the DR was a bad idea isn't an objection. It might very well be a bad, even disastrous idea. My first Warden thought so;  a mage who saw this as exactly the sort of arrogance that got us into the Blight mess, he refused, and in the end had to choose between dying or putting Anora on the throne.
 
Saying that Morrigan is a flawed, even somewhat irrational person is also no objection. It's simply her character.

Saying that Morrigan won't give you your character the information he wants is also not a objection. Her character is under no obligation to do that.

So what you've got is that your Warden wasn't allowed to ask Morrigan questions that she would refuse to answer, to attempt Persuade or Intimidate checks that would fail, or to attack and kill her. I can agree with all of these as a matter of RP, though I imagine you'd have some explaining to do in the latter case, which would make it slightly costly in terms of VA work. I don't find your character's reasoning for wanting to kill her rational at all since she can't put her plan into effect without the cooperation of a Grey Warden, but I have no objection to people playing sociopaths as long as implementing those choices is nearly free.

Again, thanks for the clarification.

Um, no.  What I got is what I outlined for you.  That hasn’t changed. My objections remain my objections for the reasons I’ve stated. Your response did nothing to cause me to change that view.
 
But, you are welcome, and I appreciate some of your comments.  But I still fail to see how these are not “rational” or valid objections, since you are really offering little more than a very brief interpretive opinion in opposition based upon whatever set of assumptions you embrace.  I think it’s very rational to see Morrigan as a threat (with the knowledge you have at the point of the DR) and I think I've made the case fairly well that my Warden was forced out of character for the sake of a plot hook.  In essence, this makes me an unsatisfied consumer, but especially it makes me an unhappy gamer, where otherwise I probably would have said it was the best game I ever played.  You offer nothing to change my mind or alleviate my unhappiness with the story, but I understand you may have a differing opinion and you are welcome to that. 

I think doing her ritual with so little information (information she has BTW and is merely withholding) is irresponsible for a Grey Warden.  But more importantly, I think for Morrigan even to expect you to do it with so little information is unrealistic and only led a romancing Warden to a contrived ending. 
 
Regarding the cooperation of a Grey Warden:  I definitely fail to understand your point here.  It is precisely because Morrigan required a Grey Warden for her Ritual that I believe she had an absolute obligation to provide him with information, being that she sought to attract the “essence” (whatever that really means) of the very thing a Grey Warden is sworn to destroy.  That she supposedly “loved” a romancing Warden only compounded that obligation in mind.  Thus, her not doing this was more of a literary device than an instrument of her actual “character.”  The plot gods didn’t see it that way and I think it was contrived and left me flat at the end.  I have yet to see a good rationalization of that yet, and you didn’t provide one.
 
Regarding your accusation of me ‘misleading:’ You’re really just nitpicking here rather than really making an earnest attempt at instructing a wayward soul in the rhetorical method.  I've stated clearly there is no intent to deceive and have outlined why based upon economy.  If you don’t buy it and wish to see it as “misleading” you are certainly free to continue to do so. 

Regarding sociopathology: I'm not sure why you would accuse my Warden of being a sociopath, other than taking an underhanded poke at someone you disagree with (or has somehow offended you), but you are certainly free to do so if you feel the need.  It is an interesting accusation though.  I hadn’t realized that sociopaths were capable of love or self-sacrifice.  New one on me.  Actually I would have argued that it was Morrigan (although we were all rooting for her), rather than my Warden, who better exhibited the marks of a sociopath, (antisocial behavior, lacking in empathy, shallow emotions, grandiosity, inability to love, sense of entitlement), but I digress.
 
I am pleased that you are happy with your outcomes and your rationalizations supporting them, I especially admire your need/desire to defend them; I'm just not moved by them in the least; but that's the nature of interpretive opinion: everybody's got one, always based upon a set of axioms or assumptions to underlie them, but yours are unfortunately no more valid than mine, especially in such a subjective realm.
 
Oh, and in all fairness I must say I have no objection to people playing gullible patsies as long as implementing those choices is nearly free.

[Barbarossa2010]

BTW, to all the modders; you guys/gals are truly amazing. I'm am currently shopping for a new PC to take advantage of your work.