16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

blademaster7 wrote...

The ME team has alot more pressure to deliver a sequel that recognizes your choices. It's ironic because the RPG decisions are very few compared to Origins.

Maybe the DA team realized that they could never pull it of and they played their "get out of jail" card with Hawke and the Free Marches(so much for Morrigan and Orlais).

Thats very true with ME- the huge cornerstone of that franchise (at least with Shep) is that your choices carry forward and drastically effect future games. ME2 didn't really do that. I think the telling thing with ME3 will be whether or not they bring back all of the ME2 crew in meaningful ways- if they reduce all of them to cameos even, then thats pretty lame and a bit of a indictment of the failure of the "no canon" approach.

With DA, the big choice from Origins was the DR. If they can't even play that up with a certain degree of gravitas and magnitude, then they've got issues trying to play up the notion that your choices matter.

Master Shiori wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Well, since Alistair's endings are being accounted for even though he really  does end up dead in a good number of games, I'm sure they'll figure out a way to put the OGB in (or not).  It may only be some extra dialog.  You may only hear about what is happening in another land.  I don't know  how they'll handle this, tbh.  But I do believe it will be more than just a codex entry.

I sure hope so Ejoslin.

When asked if we'll ever see the consequences of the Dark Ritual, David  Gaider just said "wait and see". I'm hoping they'll be more to it than  simply a few lines of dialogue or an epilogue slide.

Yeah, I'm not expecting much of anything beyond at most a codex entry or a reference from Flemeth or something with respect to the Warden/Morrigan or Old God Baby in DA2. Provided that there are some hints at what is to come and its not another bugged out Awakening epilogue type reference, thats best. If anything Witch Hunt alleviated the concern that they'd simply toss Morrigan back in DA2 so that Hawke could romance her or something.

So I really don't mind if we don't get much of anything from the DR/Morrigan/Old God Baby/Mirror World in DA2. But after that? They (I mean the devs like Laidlaw, Melo, Gaider, Darrah) keep saying over and over again, that we haven't seen the last of Morrigan and how her story isn't over. And given how Witch Hunt ended, as far as I;m concerned, the Warden's story is now glued to Morrigan's and the Old God Baby's.  If you have any one but not the other 2 going forward,  I couldn't help but feel that BioWare would have been writing checks they had no intention  of being able to pay off. I don't think they'd intentionally mess up the choice and consequences for the DR, but just like the DR was botched, I could see any Morrigan return being chopped up or having gone through so many iterations such that its not what might have been originally intended or loses sight of the reason many want to see Morrigan again.

Its like Terra has said many times, that bringing Morrigan back just to bring her back by herself, completely misses the significance of bringing her back in the first place.

Master Shiori wrote...
I  get the feeling they're trying to pull off a "Song of Ice and Fire" type of storytelling, where they have several stories that all come  together.

If thats their intent and they can actually pull that off, that could be fantastic. The problem with that approach is that its really ambitious on a Molyneux level of scale almost and I'd be skeptical they could pull it off without some aspect of it feeling forced or maybe losing something between games. And the only way that works is if they eventually bring the stories back together, otherwise you just have another Neverwinter Nights scenario,

But I really hope thats the plan- bringing everything back together for DA3 with the Warden/Morrigan/Flemeth and all. EVen doing it in that style, I don't think it precludes direct sequels, so long as you keep exploring the universe.

blademaster7 wrote...

I hope you're right about the  direction of DA3. But, honestly, with the direction they're taking it  seems far more likely that DA3 will have a 5-hour campaign and a bunch  of multiplayer modes.

Ugh... thats a problem with games in general though, not just DA. The day DA dips below 30 hour single player campaigns or includes multiplayer is the day I'm through with it.

Modifié par Brockololly, 10 novembre 2010 - 10:53 .

[Giggles_Manically]

I have a feeling we will get KOTOR 2 syndrome with Morrigan.



As DAO players we know her, but as Hawke of whoever is in charge in DA3 they will be utter strangers.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, I'm not expecting much of anything beyond at most a codex entry or a reference from Flemeth or something with respect to the Warden/Morrigan or Old God Baby in DA2. Provided that there are some hints at what is to come and its not another bugged out Awakening epilogue type reference, thats best. If anything Witch Hunt alleviated the concern that they'd simply toss Morrigan back in DA2 so that Hawke could romance her or something.

Yea, it wouldn't make much sense as the OGB would be at most 10 years old, if he grows normally. So I am not exspecting he would do much. As for Morrigan / Warden, she said she needs time and power for both herself and to train the OGB should he exist. I assume that it's going to take more than 10 years.

So I won't be dissapointed at all, if DA2 only mentions them very briefly.

Like you said, it's what comes after that I am looking forward to / concerned about. Especially the OGB. Since he is not canon, there is this very high risk that he will be rendered mostly inconsequential and that they can't take the OGB plotline to its fullest potential because of it.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 10 novembre 2010 - 11:19 .

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

I'm surprised they gave the OGB a gender in the DLC. That pigeonholes them into less options in the future, but BioWare has had no problem retconning things as lof late. I think the OGB is limited to slides, codexs, and mentions from NPCs in future games. Way too many resources to devote to an optional event for them to include more IMO.

Modifié par Jacks Smirking Revenge, 11 novembre 2010 - 01:09 .

[Annarl]

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...

I'm surprised they gave the OGB a gender in the DLC. That pigeonholes them into less options in the future, but BioWare has had no problem retconning things as lof late. I think the OGB is limited to slides, codexs, and mentions from NPCs in future games. Way too many resources to devote to an optional event for them to include more IMO.

Making the gender of the OGB known was surprising to me as well.  This must mean the the child will be a NPC (or villain) in the future instead of a lead character.  Because Bioware games generally allow you to choose gender, right?

Modifié par omearaee, 11 novembre 2010 - 01:54 .

[Brockololly]

New Morrigan art!

By devilmaru

Giggles_Manically wrote...
As DAO players we know her, but as Hawke of whoever is in charge in DA3 they will be utter strangers.

Thats exactly what I'd like to not have happen. Seriously, don't even bother bringing Morrigan back if its just with another PC- all you do in that case is just set the Warden right back to where he was post DR.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Yea, it wouldn't make much sense as the  OGB would be at most 10 years old, if he grows normally. So I am not  exspecting he would do much. As for Morrigan / Warden, she said she
needs  time and power for both herself and to train the OGB should he  exist. I assume that it's going to take more than 10 years.

So I won't be dissapointed at all, if DA2 only mentions them very briefly.

Like you said, it's what comes after that I am looking forward to /  concerned about. Especially the OGB. Since he is not canon, there is  this very high risk that he will be rendered mostly inconsequential and  that they can't take the OGB plotline to its fullest potential because  of it.

You figure by the end of DA2, if the 10 year time span starts at Lothering, then DA2 would end about 8 years after Witch Hunt ended. I guess, it all depends on what the real purpose of the OGB is? Does he need to be a grown up to do whatever he needs to do? The one thing I'd kind of hate to see would be to simply have the timeline skip forward too much after DA2, such that they hand wave away the Warden saying he succumbed to the Taint and they bring back Morrigan as an old lady, just so we can have the Old God Dude as some 20 or 30 year old.

I hope they don't do something like that with DA3, but at this stage I wouldn;t doubt it.

omearaee wrote...

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...

I'm surprised they gave the OGB a gender in the DLC. That pigeonholes them  into less options in the future, but BioWare has had no problem  retconning things as lof late. I think the OGB is limited to slides,  codexs, and mentions from NPCs in future games. Way too many resources  to devote to an optional event for them to include more IMO.

Making the gender of the OGB known was surprising to me as well.  This must  mean the the child will be a NPC (or villain) in the future instead of a lead character.  Because Bioware games generally allow you to choose  gender, right?

I was sort of surprised too, but mostly that the OGB was a male- I was thinking it would be a girl. Or at least that could have been interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if the OGB was relegated to some minor role, but I think that just betrays the notion of having "no canon." Might as well have done the US if there isn't going to be any meaningful difference.

As for playing as the OGB in the future, what would be neat would be if in DA3 you can play as the Warden and maybe influence the OGB with Morrigan, and what you teach him or act influences how he grows up. Then maybe in the next game after Morrigan and the Warden's part in things is over, the OGB could be a possible Origin story thats only available if you did the DR back in Origins? That would be neat, but waaaaay too complex, as we don't even know how well BioWare can transfer choices over without them getting all bugged out, let alone transfer choices across multiple games over many real years- because who knows how any importing stuff would work once this console generation goes kaput.

Modifié par Brockololly, 11 novembre 2010 - 05:25 .

[Esbatty]

Well so far they have stated that they were going to do DLC for Dragon Age two like they did for ME two ... my keyboard is busted so I gotta spell out numbers.



So with DLC having a seperate budget and being not considred part of the jman game, we might get another Morrigan riffic DLC out of them. I mean c'mon the Eluvians were ... rather there were at least in Ferelden alone, so how many are there across Thedas? She can have access to them anywhere... go anywhere with them.

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

New Morrigan art!

By devilmaru

Very nice.

I approve!

Brockololly wrote...

omearaee wrote...

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...

I'm surprised they gave the OGB a gender in the DLC. That pigeonholes them  into less options in the future, but BioWare has had no problem  retconning things as lof late. I think the OGB is limited to slides,  codexs, and mentions from NPCs in future games. Way too many resources  to devote to an optional event for them to include more IMO.

Making the gender of the OGB known was surprising to me as well.  This must  mean the the child will be a NPC (or villain) in the future instead of a lead character.  Because Bioware games generally allow you to choose  gender, right?

I was sort of surprised too, but mostly that the OGB was a male- I was thinking it would be a girl. Or at least that could have been interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if the OGB was relegated to some minor role, but I think that just betrays the notion of having "no canon." Might as well have done the US if there isn't going to be any meaningful difference.

As for playing as the OGB in the future, what would be neat would be if in DA3 you can play as the Warden and maybe influence the OGB with Morrigan, and what you teach him or act influences how he grows up. Then maybe in the next game after Morrigan and the Warden's part in things is over, the OGB could be a possible Origin story thats only available if you did the DR back in Origins? That would be neat, but waaaaay too complex, as we don't even know how well BioWare can transfer choices over without them getting all bugged out, let alone transfer choices across multiple games over many real years- because who knows how any importing stuff would work once this console generation goes kaput.

Actually, that would be quite simple Brock.

All you had to do is check to see if the "Dark Ritual was done" flag is active in order to unlock the origin for OGB.
Gaider even mentioned something like that once, by saying how cool it would be if making a certain choice would result in a unique origin for a future pc.

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...
All you had to do is check to see if the "Dark Ritual was done" flag is active in order to unlock the origin for OGB.
Gaider even mentioned something like that once, by saying how cool it would be if making a certain choice would result in a unique origin for a future pc.

Oh  I know what Gaider said a while back as thats what I'm thinking about. I'm just highly skeptical BioWare can get the import process right: Witch Hunt was bugged because they botched the Dark Ritual choice and how it was dealt with at the end of Origins.

Add in Awakening's botched epilogue and up to this point, every Morrigan import has been messed up to this point. I'm more than a little skeptical that any future import with her wouldn't be equally as messed up or if BioWare just ended up ditching the flags and went about trying to approximate things after realizing how nerfed the flags are, and we get stuck with a cookie cutter, one sized fits all Morrigan.

I think this console generation will be around a bit longer, but how will they manage things going into DA3 or something if you have the next xbox on the horizon? It wouldn't be a problem on PC, but I doubt you'd be able to import from a 360 to whatever is next. I guess it would come down to how long DA3 takes to make and whether Morrigan is even in it...

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
All you had to do is check to see if the "Dark Ritual was done" flag is active in order to unlock the origin for OGB.
Gaider even mentioned something like that once, by saying how cool it would be if making a certain choice would result in a unique origin for a future pc.

Oh  I know what Gaider said a while back as thats what I'm thinking about. I'm just highly skeptical BioWare can get the import process right: Witch Hunt was bugged because they botched the Dark Ritual choice and how it was dealt with at the end of Origins.

Add in Awakening's botched epilogue and up to this point, every Morrigan import has been messed up to this point. I'm more than a little skeptical that any future import with her wouldn't be equally as messed up or if BioWare just ended up ditching the flags and went about trying to approximate things after realizing how nerfed the flags are, and we get stuck with a cookie cutter, one sized fits all Morrigan.

I think this console generation will be around a bit longer, but how will they manage things going into DA3 or something if you have the next xbox on the horizon? It wouldn't be a problem on PC, but I doubt you'd be able to import from a 360 to whatever is next. I guess it would come down to how long DA3 takes to make and whether Morrigan is even in it...

Laidlaw practically confirmed that she's in it and every Bioware employee, when asked about returning companions in future games, says that Morrigan will be back.

As for consoles, I couldn't care less. They might change things for them if the new generation hits before DA3 is finished, but that isn't going to be a problem for the pc gamers.

How long before DA3 is out? Based on what Gaider said about game development today I recon we can expect to see DA3 in late 2012 or early 2013 the latest. I doubt Bioware can afford to keep it in development for longer than a year or year and a half max.

[Master Shiori]

PureMethodActor wrote...

In regards to whats been theorized about the future of consoles...

I remember hearing somewhere that Microsoft intends to keep the 360 running for longer as a staple system, kinda like what Sony did with the Playstation 1 for a long time (still make games for it, use it as a competitor against the next generation). I have no idea what Sony plans since I'm an xbox loyalist as far as consoles go...

Just a reminder: don't forget about the console players such as myself who like complexity and dislike streamlining . We exist and we're on your side

Sorry, if anything in my post came off as anti-console. Truth be told i don't have anything against console players nor do I think console games are all about throwing out complexity and steamlining.

If anything I feel the fault lies with the new generations of gamers, regardless of what platform they play on. It seems to me that people nowadays want games to be less like sports (in that you need to learn how to play and think while playing) and more like movies (sit back and enjoy the show).

I just hope that after ME2 was a blatant port from console to pc and DA:O was a port from pc to consoles, that Bioware is telling the truth about how they're developing DA2 simulatiosly on both gaming platforms. That way it's a win for everyone and nobody gets to feel like a second stringer.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 11 novembre 2010 - 10:41 .

[Brockololly]

 Some Morrigan with hair down action:



By UrbanZebra


Anyway, here is a bit of Morrigan lore info from Gaider today on Morrigan's shapeshifting powers- specifically sort of clearing up that one quote from Morrigan on whether she can take the form of a human:

From this thread:

David Gaider wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...
Morrigans ability to shapeshift is likely quite limited compared to Flemeth and so its likely Morrigan does not have the ability to shapeshift into other humans for the simple reason that she never bothered to learn how, not because she can't.

This is it. Morrigan is a shapeshifter, yes, and when she was talking about the limitations on her abilities that's what she was referring to. Flemeth has more knowledge than Morrigan, and Morrigan was not talking about Flemeth's limitations-- only her own. Morrigan cannot turn into a dragon either, after all.

Modifié par Brockololly, 12 novembre 2010 - 02:59 .

[Bruddajakka]

Though there's nothing stopping her from gaining those abilities as time passes. Which is gonna annoy the hell out of me when Morrigan, and the Warden return only to go through the Mandatory Samus Depowering.

[Giggles_Manically]

Just replayed Jade Empire and I realized something.



Morrigan fits the mold of a Closed Fist adherent very well.

Stength is the best virtue, and to survive and make youself better is what she seeks.



I just really hate how so many of the Closed Fist options are well nasty. Especially what you can do to the Water Dragon.

[Esbatty]

Do not ruin JE for me. I'm currently hunting down a replacement Airship and a wind map. *tears up* Please! *puppy dog eyes*



...



Anywho, I don't mind a Samus depowering of characters. As long as it can be explained away, Im fine with that. Besides if they comeback in DA3 I'm sure Thedas will have undergone alot since DAO/DA2... and thus "only the strong shall survive". I mean thats the world Morrigan wants. She wants it returned to a state of nature, essentially anarchy. But Anarchy tends to lead to naked dictatorship/mob rule.

[Giggles_Manically]

True a world in which the stong rule, in a natural state is not possible with people.



There will always be the strong, and the weak in any group of people, where the strong are supported by the weak, and the strong protect them to be supported.



Unless you return humanity back to an animal state, then a only the strong survive is not possible.

[Esbatty]

In The Land Of Ever - Interlude II "The Fragile" is now up.

[Shade of Wolf]

omearaee wrote...

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...

I'm surprised they gave the OGB a gender in the DLC. That pigeonholes them into less options in the future, but BioWare has had no problem retconning things as lof late. I think the OGB is limited to slides, codexs, and mentions from NPCs in future games. Way too many resources to devote to an optional event for them to include more IMO.

Making the gender of the OGB known was surprising to me as well.  This must mean the the child will be a NPC (or villain) in the future instead of a lead character.  Because Bioware games generally allow you to choose gender, right?

Hi, I'm back, I didn't get a chance to come on a lot so .
I was surprised by the gender being  male, I really expected it to be a girl.

[Shade of Wolf]

[quote]
As for playing as the OGB in the future, what would be neat would be if in DA3 you can play as the Warden and maybe influence the OGB with Morrigan, and what you teach him or act influences how he grows up. Then maybe in the next game after Morrigan and the Warden's part in things is over, the OGB could be a possible Origin story thats only available if you did the DR back in Origins? That would be neat, but waaaaay too complex, as we don't even know how well BioWare can transfer choices over without them getting all bugged out, let alone transfer choices across multiple games over many real years- because who knows how any importing stuff would work once this console generation goes kaput.
[/quote]

Actually, that would be quite simple Brock.

All you had to do is check to see if the "Dark Ritual was done" flag is active in order to unlock the origin for OGB.
Gaider even mentioned something like that once, by saying how cool it would be if making a certain choice would result in a unique origin for a future pc.

[/quote]
Oh my gosh, I likey!!
Seriously though, that would be cool. Maybe other people might feel cheated out of a story though? Maybe you wouldn't have to have done the DR in Origins, but the Origin goes as if it did and choices you make will reflect on the choices your parents made.

[Shade of Wolf]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

True a world in which the stong rule, in a natural state is not possible with people.

There will always be the strong, and the weak in any group of people, where the strong are supported by the weak, and the strong protect them to be supported.

Unless you return humanity back to an animal state, then a only the strong survive is not possible.

What about a contagious disease, where physical strength was next to useless and it relied entirely on your actual strength.

[IndigoWolfe]

You know, I can pretty much only romance Morrigan now. She's my go-to LI in Dragon Age. And yet, in Mass Effect, my favorite love interest is Liara. The two are dramatically different characters, yet I cling to them with equal intensity. It seems a little strange, in retrospect.

[Brockololly]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

You know, I can pretty much only romance Morrigan now. She's my go-to LI in Dragon Age. And yet, in Mass Effect, my favorite love interest is Liara. The two are dramatically different characters, yet I cling to them with equal intensity. It seems a little strange, in retrospect.

Yeah, my original Warden romanced Morrigan. Then I romanced Leliana for my 2nd Warden, and it was a nice romance, but compared to Morrigan's was kind of.... basic? Just sort of lacking any drama compared to Morrigan's. 

As for ME, I really don't care for any of the LI's compared to past BioWare games. My canon Shep romanced Ash in ME1, but really none of those romances hold a candle to the likes of Morrigan or Viconia or Jaheira's romances in BG2.