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[Giggles_Manically]

Ok I just hit a Morri related Bug.



I did the Grimoire quest, but there was no Grimoire in the chest. Is there a way to fix this?

I reloaded the fight a few times and it still was not there.

[Brockololly]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Ok I just hit a Morri related Bug.

I did the Grimoire quest, but there was no Grimoire in the chest. Is there a way to fix this?
I reloaded the fight a few times and it still was not there.

Hmmm... I haven't played in a while so I'm not sure about this one. Flemeth's grimoire? Do you have Terra's mod installed? 

[Giggles_Manically]

No I removed it because for some reason it was not working and bugged out on me.

I have Dialouge Tweaks, Zevran Dialouge fix (DT compatibale), and Qwinn's Unoffical Fix pack running so it might be one of those.



Dosent matter though really, because I doubt that the Grimoire realy affects anything she alreadys knows about the DR and this PC is my offical US run.



On a side note I really loved how Morrigan told Bob who did the DR with her how he was her truest friend and how almost proud she was to say "go, go and face your destiny".

That made me smiling.



Plus I am downloading BG1 and squee every time it goes up by 1%.

[Brockololly]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

No I removed it because for some reason it was not working and bugged out on me.
I have Dialouge Tweaks, Zevran Dialouge fix (DT compatibale), and Qwinn's Unoffical Fix pack running so it might be one of those.

Yeah, Terra would probably know whats compatible and what not.

Giggles_Manically wrote...
Plus I am downloading BG1 and squee every time it goes up by 1%.

NICEB)

[TheBlackBaron]

I've missed quite a bit, it seems. The bulk of the new DW chapter, at least half of In the Land of Ever, and more Brock and David G. verbal fencing.

[Bruddajakka]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

No I removed it because for some reason it was not working and bugged out on me.
I have Dialouge Tweaks, Zevran Dialouge fix (DT compatibale), and Qwinn's Unoffical Fix pack running so it might be one of those.

Dosent matter though really, because I doubt that the Grimoire realy affects anything she alreadys knows about the DR and this PC is my offical US run.

On a side note I really loved how Morrigan told Bob who did the DR with her how he was her truest friend and how almost proud she was to say "go, go and face your destiny".
That made me smiling.

Plus I am downloading BG1 and squee every time it goes up by 1%.

'

Did you delete the Morrigan file, and the slide file from ZDF?  It makes the Restoration patch go wonky.

[Terra_Ex]

Taking a break from the latest DA2 disappointment...

@Giggles
Yeah, removing the mod midway through will screw you over due to alterations to the grimoire quest and item. And yeah, it won't play well with other mods that alter morrigan's dialogue files (since they'll generally reinstate a bunch of bugs) if you're using the DAZIP version... or possibly another manual install mod is altering morrigan_main.dlg.

Old versions of ZDF had a morrigan_main and Qwinn's most certainly did. Got to be careful what you install, to remedy it - search your My Documents override directories for any morrigan related files and purge them, use the manual version of MRP to ensure my fixes take priority. Console commands can give you the grimoire if all else fails.

Regarding Baldurs Gate - yeah, the BG squeeing doesn't really start till you hit the BG2 proper, I am getting very tempted to do another playthrought of the whole series since you know, it actually will meet my expectations instead of half the functionality disappearing for the second outing.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

I swear I'll finish up this epic post (currently residing in a .txt file and growing in size by the day...) sometime soon, two Morri related projects and RL distracting me atm.

[Aphetto_LC]

Terra_Ex wrote...

Taking a break from the latest DA2 disappointment...

Was about to ask what you meant, but then I saw.  

[Giggles_Manically]

What happened?

[Aphetto_LC]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What happened?

No overhead tactical view.

[Giggles_Manically]

I can really live without it though.



I only rarely got any use out if it, the other angles worked out for me pretty well.

[Bruddajakka]

Same. Only ever used it to aim the occasional AOE.

[Aphetto_LC]

That is fine, but I liked to use it. Not having it saddens me.

[Brockololly]

Terra_Ex wrote...

I swear I'll finish up this epic post (currently residing in a .txt file and growing in size by the day...) sometime soon, two Morri related projects and RL distracting me atm.

Haha- it'll be a book by the time its done!

The lack of the iso view or anything comparable as it seems, just makes it seem they're not doing much with the PC version. Thats whats most disappointing, that the PC version is losing features.

And some good ol' Morrigan art:



By: Skrubhjert

[Esbatty]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

I've missed quite a bit, it seems. The bulk of the new DW chapter, at least half of In the Land of Ever, and more Brock and David G. verbal fencing.

I warn ye now, there is toplessness in both DW and ITHLOE. Although with Xi is mostly Edric and me its mostly Morrigan.

[TheBlackBaron]

Esbatty wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

I've missed quite a bit, it seems. The bulk of the new DW chapter, at least half of In the Land of Ever, and more Brock and David G. verbal fencing.

I warn ye now, there is toplessness in both DW and ITHLOE. Although with Xi is mostly Edric and me its mostly Morrigan.

...I don't see how this is supposed to dissuade me. On the one hand I don't freak out at the sight of the male form, and on the other, ah...well, I'm a Morrigan fan. We'll leave it at that.

On the subject of no overhead view...seriously, there are far worse things that article could have mentioned. You can apparantly still zoom-out a decent ways, presumably enough to give a decent view of the battlefield, so I'm good with that. It was all I used the top-down view for anyway.

[ejoslin]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

No I removed it because for some reason it was not working and bugged out on me.
I have Dialouge Tweaks, Zevran Dialouge fix (DT compatibale), and Qwinn's Unoffical Fix pack running so it might be one of those.

Dosent matter though really, because I doubt that the Grimoire realy affects anything she alreadys knows about the DR and this PC is my offical US run.

On a side note I really loved how Morrigan told Bob who did the DR with her how he was her truest friend and how almost proud she was to say "go, go and face your destiny".
That made me smiling.

Plus I am downloading BG1 and squee every time it goes up by 1%.

If using an older version of my mod, eeep, it could be me.  You need to delete morrigan_main.dlg/dlb and cutscene_slideshow.dlg from zdf.  I have it removed both of those files morrigan_main from my most recent version of ZDF and am using MRPFP's version of cutscene_slideshow. I recommend my latest version anyway, as thanks to Terra_Ex, the gates dialog of Alistair now works as intended, concerning him responding properly to just how much he was told, if anything, about the dark ritual.

Edit; ummm, yeh, what everyone else said.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 novembre 2010 - 02:27 .

[UFOash]

You what was a great scene?
The one in the Circle Tower where Morrigan is trying to convince you the Circle of Magi is bad.
If you ask her why she hates the Circle, the following dialogue is great.

One of my favourite Morrigan moments anyway.

[Brockololly]

Hahaha- this thread on the DA2 forums. We're all myopic once more for hoping for some Warden/Morrigan continuity. I'll post all of Gaider's responses.

David Gaider wrote...

Regarding this topic, I'll say what I've said about it before.

I recognize that some people are emotionally attached to their Warden,  and that's cool-- and complimentary-- and I'm not going to say "you  shouldn't be so attached". That would be silly. I love that people are so attached to their characters. Means we did our jobs.

The Warden's story in DAO, however, was complete. Their story involved  defeating the Archdemon and the Blight, and they did. Is their personal  story finished? No, but aside from being dead whose personal story ever truly is? Some people need to recognize that there's a difference  between plot threads and an unfinished story. We can pick up plot threads again, by all means, but it would necessitate starting a brand  new story... or those plot threads can be picked up by others, in their story. Either approach is valid, and the idea that it must be the Warden who is playable in order to continue any of these threads  simply because people can only imagine connecting with them with that  one character, ever, or because they have personal relationships they'd  like to see continue... well, it's a little short-sighted.

I get that there's some people who just want to continue, period, but I'd say there's also a case for letting good stories lie rather than dragging  them somewhere they don't want to go.

Am I saying that this is what we're doing, leaving the Warden behind forever? Of course not. To be honest, I can never be entirely certain as to the exact approach we're going to take on a project until we're  doing it. Plans change all the time. All I'm referring to is the people  who insist it must be so, and that failing to continue their  beloved PC as a PC somehow constitutes a failed promise or a botched  storyline-- neither of which is true anywhere outside of your head, I'm  afraid. Continuing the Warden as a PC is possible, if complicated (and  it would obviously necessitate either being optional or making the US  non-canonical), but it is not the only route for continuing the story of Dragon Age and Thedas-- as well as the various plot threads which  remain from DAO.

Just sayin'. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png

David Gaider wrote...

Huntress wrote...
if the warden story ended killing the archdemon, Awakening was what?

...another story? One that ended with killing/sparing the Architect?

Is it seriously a hard concept to grasp?

We can keep bringing the Warden back for more, brand new stories if we want to. Absolutely. The idea that this is what we must do in order to deal with unresolved plot threads-- as if those were worthy of entire stories of their own-- is all I was addressing.

I responded in my Morri/Warden defending way to which Gaider replied:

David Gaider wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
No,  but if the DR Wardens that are tightly involved with Morrigan never  personally see any consequences for their actions, when the DR seems as  much the beginning of a plot/story at the end of Origins, then I'd say  thats screwing up the entire notion of the "no canon" approach.

And I think you appear to have a very narrow idea of Morrigan's story that  involves it only being a romantic tale, something seen through the lens  of the Warden and no other way-- and doing it some other way would be  "screwing it up".

Which is fine, if that's how you really want to look at it, but I hope you see it for what it is. Imagining the very  worst way it could be done and complaining about how that would feel seems a bit strange to me, but there you go.

David Gaider wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
What "holes"? 

I think this is the internet definition of "plothole" which is equivalent to "I don't like it".

The potion does nothing but unlock powers in the taint, it doesn't "cure" you nor does Avernus research for a cure.

Evidently it does if you really, really wanted it to.

Just because you're not the Warden doesn't mean this choice won't show up later.

Indeed, this was part of my point on plot threads. Plot threads don't exist  only in relation to the Warden-- and someone complaining that using  those plot threads without the Warden involved as a PC drains them of  all emotional relevance is forgetting that we're the ones who gave it  that emotional relevance in the first place.

Trust us-- if we  think a plot thread is worth picking up, we'll do it in a way that's  worthwhile and not the worst-case-scenario someone conjures up to make  using the Warden PC sound better. If we were to make Morrigan reappear  for a different PC, for instance, we wouldn't have the PC stand there  and ask awkward questions like "who are you?" and have them treat  Morrigan like they had no idea what she was about-- or have the nature  of her involvement in previous stories have absolutely no relevance to  what's going on.

Seriously, give us some credit.

Modifié par Brockololly, 18 novembre 2010 - 06:22 .

[Aphetto_LC]

Modifié par Aphetto_LC, 18 novembre 2010 - 07:12 .

[UFOash]

I get what hes saying, and I guess its valid that everything in Thedas doesn't follow the Warden.

But I don't think the complaints were that we'd have to start over again with Morrigan because our PC was gone, I think people were more worrying that the Morrigan story might just replace the Warden with "Hawke", or whoever.

It would not only feel kind of fickle of Morrigan to go jumping from PC to PC but it would be kinda weird for the player, either to play as a different character conversing with the same Morrigan or to treat Morrigan the same but as a new character, which would be even weirder.

[Brockololly]

The issue is having Morrigan pop up in some future game without the Warden, after potentially ending Witch Hunt with the Warden going with Morrigan through the Eluvian and having Morrigan sort of have a big character development moment in trusting the Warden to come along with her.



SO you start out some new game with just Morrigan there and some new PC. Even if that Morrigan is affected by the Warden, its missing the point that, to get the most out of Morrigan's story going forward, you need to involve the Warden thats already invested a lot in her story too- whether thats as a lover that followed her through the Eluvian or as a BFF that got the mysterious gift or if its as bitter enemies and the Warden stabbed her. Having some new PC deal with that stuff, just tosses out most emotional connection you have towards seeing that choice/consequence directly.

[Terra_Ex]

This is for Brock since I know he wants to quote large blocks of texts and I've been slacking of late [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

Ah well, I knew that'd be coming sooner or later. All I'll say is what Gaider's said there (while he's stated the same things before) is very reminiscient (more or less verbatim tbh) of what he said in this thread in the past prior to the DA2 reveal, particularly the bolded parts, hence why my expectations for DA3 (and DA in general) were adjusted appropriately some time ago when it became apparent we're going with the revolving door approach.

I'll speak purely about the romance side of things first since that's what Gaider focused on in his follow up to Brock - BioWare created this expectation themselves, foreshadowing the search for Morrigan in Origins & Awakening and then cementing it in WH. To my mind, it's a fairly logical assumption that for a player who completed the Morrigan romance and got the mirror ending, that the warden would be present in a future title. Not saying the two have to be joined at the hip or that the warden has to be the protagonist (though reprising the warden in a future title would be my personal preference.) Sure it's all optional, but presumably the writers write optional content to be... enjoyed by the player (as opposed to having it thrown back in their face), otherwise we might as well ignore all the sidequests and dash straight for the finish line. It's much the same way where if one of my female wardens ends up ruling with Alistair, I'd expect that warden to be involved in any potential story that involved him. The difference being that Morrigan's thread seems to actually be going somewhere and one of the defined endings (not my dreamed up fantasy scenarios) allows my player character to continue that journey alongside her. As an aside I'll say that the effectiveness of bringing back the warden in a non-PC role can't really be gauged at this point, it'd depend on the focus of DA3 and how much Morrigan plays into it.

So, to summarise the purely romance related stuff, based on how events progressed in-game, as a player yes I would expect a mirror world warden to be involved in Morrigan's ongoing story in some way. To me, writing off this DA:O player character via codex or similar has the potential to undermine the events of DA:O/WH. Certainly you can pick up any plot thread with a new protagonist/perspective but for me the strongest character development & plotlines comes from reprising a previous character, but since Thedas is the focus I suppose it's a moot point.

Moving away from the romance side of things, I see variables and end-game setups that are easily accomodated and others that'd take more effort, however ascribing blinkered vision on those who hope for some measure of continuity/follow through on what they consider an enjoyable aspect of the game/their ending (in this supposed no-canon framework) is a cheap shot imo (and somewhat similar to how a lot of old-school fans feel regarding how their concerns are handwaved in the DA2 forums.) I enjoyed the Morrigan romance and am happy to discuss it at length but it hardly commits me to a one-sided interpretation of her character/story, instead it helps form part of a complete picture formed across multiple playthroughs. My conclusions at this point in time are that a future plotline involving Morrigan has more to gain from including the warden than excluding them. What more can I say really, BioWare sets out these bones, the player grabs it and runs with it only to get a chiding somewhere down the line.

I think BioWare would do well to look at it from the other side of the fence, as Brock has commented on before things look different from down here on the ground than up in the writers tower of omnipotence. These concerns (and this extends to where DA seems to be heading as franchise) don't come out of nowhere, they are based on previous experience with both BioWare and other companies products. Worst case scenarios might perchance manifest in our minds due to way they choose to word and present certain information, or a lack of overall information - "Hawke is the most important", fine but could have been handled better imo. I'm sure we've all experienced situations where a particular tv series is cancelled before its time and we're left with an unresolved cliffhanger and no resolution, it's much the same here. Similarly I've played titles where returning characters are essentially just cameos and thus have failed in their purpose. In the case of DA it becomes more problematic due to the greater depth these characters possess and the complete disconnection that can be caused between (assumed) player knowledge and what the current player character should know.

I agree with most of your points Brock and I know what approaches work for me and those that don't. To conclude, yes it's frustrating that the devs say that Morrigan's story isn't done and that she's one of the big players who will change the world yet in the same breath be told that our existing characters (whatever their relationship with her is) might not be a part of it, but what can you do really? Regarding the writing, sure the story will probably be decent, but the player has far more invested in an interactive medium than they do a book and each thread has its own set of expectations so there's a thin line that needs to be trodden, especially with the supposed no-canon trappings of DA where the player supposedly shapes events. At the end of the day, DA2 is what it is and likewise DA3 will be, I'll decide with my wallet when the time comes if DA is still providing the kind of experience I wish to partake in. I'm sure Barbarossa would have a colourful diatribe to share with us on the matter were he here.

And yes, adneate's banner never seemed so appropriate [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie].

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 18 novembre 2010 - 09:43 .

[Giggles_Manically]

My issue would be that if Bioware brings the Warden back then people would scream that its not VOed.

If they gave my wardens a voice, I would hate it so much, I know what my warden's sound like and how they say lines, I dont need some bored VO artist looking for some money forcing out a badly delivered line that ruins my game.



I am giving Hawke a chance, but on the whole I doubt Bioware is going to return to a silent PC again.

[Aphetto_LC]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
I doubt Bioware is going to return to a silent PC again.

I'd go a step further and say that they never will, even though Bioware continues to not comment one way or the other.