16183 réponses à ce sujet

[thenemesis77]

the Warden we played.....is not just any warden, he/she is one to change the world, for good or bad, they were picked on a much higher level and if you played the game.....you knew this is what was abound. It's not that I or anyone else wanted it, it just fell that way and if they want to right that off in some codex......thats sad and is why I have to real care for Hawke.

Modifié par thenemesis77, 20 novembre 2010 - 11:50 .

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...
And regarding another PC romancing  Morrigan, you'll find that Brock's fears reside in BioWare's past works, NWN which was imo, less than exemplary in its handling of continuity  and player romances (I believe Awakening initially was to react to player romances but w/e).

Yeah, look no further than NWN and Horde of the Underdark with Aribeth. Now I haven't played through HotU and only played a bit of NWN, but my understanding of it is that in NWN the PC can have some sort of meaningful relationship with Aribeth and can make a choice to have her live or die at the end; I don't know that its a traditional romance necessarily, but pretty close. Then you go to HotU and you're a new PC and find Aribeth again, and despite your choice, she's dead/ a ghost. But worry not! Because you can have this new PC romance Aribeth, despite having the original NWN PC having "vanished!" I'll punt a kitten through a plate glass window if they pull some of that same **** with Morrigan in DA3. Think of the kittens, BioWare.

The bad part of the whole "romance Aribeth as a new PC" thing is that it was done really badly. She never once wonders about the man who redeemed her and obviously cared for her (at least as a friend).
What's more, she practically falls for the new PC out of the blue. No steady build up of a relationship, no kisses or similar stuff. Just 1 or 2 dialogues (unrelated to love or your feeelings) and the next thing you know the 2 of you are "making kissy faces", as Alistair would say it.
Damn it woman. I know I just dragged you out of Hell, but really?!

It was without a doubt the biggest "WTF?!" moment I ever had in a Bioware game.

Brockololly wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...
I have no objections to switching providing BioWare can deal with the Morrigan plotline effectively. Depending on  your playthrough the warden may be a direct piece of that plot, whilst  you can't base a game solely around that, as you say it shouldn't be ignored as it is a viable endgame state.

Exactly- expectations BioWare- you created them, so its up to you to fulfill them.

Yes and no.

The said that Morrigan's story would continue and our choices and decisions would be recognized and honored. They never openly said that the Warden would personally deal with Morrigan again.

Can you have a satisfying conclussion to Morrigan's story without playing as the Warden? Maybe, I can't tell until I see the scenario the writers have come up with.

Would bringing the Warden back be the most satisfying way to continue Morrigan's story? Apsolutely, but, sadly, it wouldn't be the only way to do it.

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote..
The bad part of the whole "romance Aribeth as a new PC" thing is that it was done really badly. She never once wonders about the man who redeemed her and obviously cared for her (at least as a friend).
What's more, she practically falls for the new PC out of the blue. No steady build up of a relationship, no kisses or similar stuff. Just 1 or 2 dialogues (unrelated to love or your feeelings) and the next thing you know the 2 of you are "making kissy faces", as Alistair would say it.
Damn it woman. I know I just dragged you out of Hell, but really?!

It was without a doubt the biggest "WTF?!" moment I ever had in a Bioware game.

And if I'm not mistaken, I *think* Gaider wrote that for HotU. Not to gang up on him, but as good as the Morrigan romance was, there is no guarantee it gets a nice ending- at this juncture it could go the Aribeth route for all we know.

Master Shiori wrote..
The said that Morrigan's story would continue and our choices and decisions would be recognized and honored. They never openly said that the Warden would personally deal with Morrigan again.

Can you have a satisfying conclussion to Morrigan's story without playing as the Warden? Maybe, I can't tell until I see the scenario the writers have come up with.

Would bringing the Warden back be the most satisfying way to continue Morrigan's story? Apsolutely, but, sadly, it wouldn't be the only way to do it.

No, thats totally true. Like you said, I can think of ways to have Morrigan go on without the Warden and still have the Warden be a factor, but the manner in which they'd explain why the Warden was not with Morrigan, would need to be handled pretty damn well and going off of how they've handled things like that in the past, I have my doubts they would handle it in a way that didn't feel like a cheap Plot Hammer moment. And I think thats where the whole reappearance of Morrigan could fall apart- how they handle her past with the Warden.

Bringing the Warden back with Morrigan would in my mind be the most satisfactory solution for those that went through the Eluvian with her or even if you stabbed her or turned down the DR and survived. It would be complicated to be sure, but it would be damn cool having that level of reactivity to your choices. And while they could surely do other approaches that aren't doom and gloom worst case scenarios, its difficult in my mind to think of one which wouldn't leave you feeling as if they simply wrote off the DR Warden not for some genuine plot reason, but mostly as a result of not wanting to bother with the non-romance or US ramifications of trying to bring the Warden back as the PC.

[KnightofPhoenix]

You know, thinking about it, WH made things worse and just temporarily subdued our sadness. It just added a ton of questions and a choice that needs to have closure, but will probably not get it.

In retrospect, I think we, or at least I, was better off with Morrigan leaving forever. That at least was somewhat of a closure. But now, going tthrough the mirror is something that will probably never be addressed, at least not as much as it should be.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 novembre 2010 - 12:49 .

[soundchaser721]

Wow, I've been off of the forums for quite some time, just got finished reading some posts of epic proportions, and at this point I figured I'd just give my two cents on the topic of another PC romancing Morrigan. I've never played NWN so I'm not sure how important Aribeth was to the plot, but Morrigan was extremely important to the central plot of Origins, and to have her romance another PC would be just completely mind-boggling to me. Given the baggage that she can have if she has a relationship with the warden ( An old god child perhaps?) it would be insane to have her be able to romance another pc after that, unless a major retcon is implemented. Add Flemeth to that picture and now it becomes truly ridiculous for Morrigan to have a relationship with a PC that has had no prior contact with Morrigan. Conversely, even if she didn't have a romantic relationship with the warden, she can still have the OGB and it seems Flemeth will be a major player no matter what choice you make regarding her fate in Origins. And honestly, having another PC be able to romance Morrigan would be a pretty blatant **** you to anyone who romanced her in Origins, or had an emotional connection to her character. At least we don't have to worry about Hawke stealing away with morrigan, I guess we just have to be thankful of that.

[MKDAWUSS]

One thing to keep in mind is that the decisions involving Morrigan are the only ones that don't arrive at a common ground. Everything else eventually arrives to the same location no matter what path you took to get there. The Circle Tower is the most obvious example - no matter who you sided with, its state in WH was the same.



If Morrigan does return to the screen, if the Warden is absent, I wouldn't mind him having a role similar to that of Revan in KOTOR 2 - no screen time, but he was mentioned enough times and given enough detail to where you knew who he was and what he did. I'm not exactly sure how the Warden could return, especially if we're talking about a new engine. Many Wardens contain external content, which may not necessarily carry over to a new engine.





I think Flemeth is going to be a bigger player in this because the Warden has no impact on her whatsoever (if you even want to count Flemeth feigning death at the hands of the Warden). That said, I also don't hope that Morrigan fled from Flemeth by heading across the Eluvian, providing a cheap cop-out that's on the same level as "they died the end."



As it is right now, there's more to Morrigan than there is to Flemeth. While a lot of that may be attributed to the Warden in Morrigan's case, it's still something that shouldn't be subject to an "exit stage left" for Morrigan. While the Warden can get away with an epilogue slide in the future (like post-DA2 for instance), I don't think Morrigan can IMO.

[Brockololly]

[MKDAWUSS]

Wow - she actually wears those shades quite well.

[Terra_Ex]

Bit of BG2 nostalgia, for the lulz...

Brockololly wrote...
Although its perhaps telling that while Ascension was written by Gaider, it wasn't officially BioWare sanctioned, was it? So while it was great, it wasn't the ending we got in vanilla ToB.

It's been years since I saw the readme for Ascension, but iirc correctly it and a bunch of other stuff like more bhaalspawn powers were restored and added into the game across a few Gaider-involved mods. While it wasn't BioWare sanctioned as such, I believe they stated (correct me if I'm wrong) that's how it was originally supposed to go down. I know there was some kind of disclaimer attached to it regarding min system requirements might not be enough to run the final battle smoothly. Regardless, it was a hell of a lot better than the vanilla TOB showdown which blatantly stood out as an unfinished rush job - Ascension felt like a true conclusion, everything had come full circle and culminated in one final battle.

Brockololly wrote...
After all, Laidlaw said
that " I have always  felt that the key to tactical play was actually
freeing your camera from the character you're controlling to issue
precise orders, which is what we're tuning now."

I did like how Sylvius has poached that quote as his new siggy [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
You know, thinking about it, WH
made things worse and just temporarily subdued our sadness. It just
added a ton of questions and a choice that needs to have closure, but
will probably not get it.

In retrospect, I think we, or at least
I, was better off with Morrigan leaving forever. That at least was
somewhat of a closure. But now, going tthrough the mirror is something
that will probably never be addressed, at least not as much as it should
be.

Depending on what comes of it, I may well be of the same mind.



O RLY? I assume the skynet/T1000 thread spawned this?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Brockololly wrote...

:wub:
She can terminate me anytime

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Master Shiori wrote..
The bad part of the whole "romance Aribeth as a new PC" thing is that it was done really badly. She never once wonders about the man who redeemed her and obviously cared for her (at least as a friend).
What's more, she practically falls for the new PC out of the blue. No steady build up of a relationship, no kisses or similar stuff. Just 1 or 2 dialogues (unrelated to love or your feeelings) and the next thing you know the 2 of you are "making kissy faces", as Alistair would say it.
Damn it woman. I know I just dragged you out of Hell, but really?!

It was without a doubt the biggest "WTF?!" moment I ever had in a Bioware game.

And if I'm not mistaken, I *think* Gaider wrote that for HotU. Not to gang up on him, but as good as the Morrigan romance was, there is no guarantee it gets a nice ending- at this juncture it could go the Aribeth route for all we know.

Maybe.

Right now we have no hard info on how things stand with DA3. People here asume Gaider is the one who decides how things go, but in reality he simply writes the story and characters once the setting and protagonist have been decided by higher-ups like Laidlaw.

Therefore he didn't lie when he said how he's got no idea which way Bioware is going to go. What he did is simply prepare you and everyone else for the possibility of not playing as the Warden again. Sure, bringing the Warden back would be a lot more difficult than using a new protagonist, but Bioware didn't end up where they are today by always taking the easy route. They'll weight the pros and cons of every option and settle for what they feel works best.

Brockololly wrote...

Master Shiori wrote..
The said that Morrigan's story would continue and our choices and decisions would be recognized and honored. They never openly said that the Warden would personally deal with Morrigan again.

Can you have a satisfying conclussion to Morrigan's story without playing as the Warden? Maybe, I can't tell until I see the scenario the writers have come up with.

Would bringing the Warden back be the most satisfying way to continue Morrigan's story? Apsolutely, but, sadly, it wouldn't be the only way to do it.

No, thats totally true. Like you said, I can think of ways to have Morrigan go on without the Warden and still have the Warden be a factor, but the manner in which they'd explain why the Warden was not with Morrigan, would need to be handled pretty damn well and going off of how they've handled things like that in the past, I have my doubts they would handle it in a way that didn't feel like a cheap Plot Hammer moment. And I think thats where the whole reappearance of Morrigan could fall apart- how they handle her past with the Warden.

Bringing the Warden back with Morrigan would in my mind be the most satisfactory solution for those that went through the Eluvian with her or even if you stabbed her or turned down the DR and survived. It would be complicated to be sure, but it would be damn cool having that level of reactivity to your choices. And while they could surely do other approaches that aren't doom and gloom worst case scenarios, its difficult in my mind to think of one which wouldn't leave you feeling as if they simply wrote off the DR Warden not for some genuine plot reason, but mostly as a result of not wanting to bother with the non-romance or US ramifications of trying to bring the Warden back as the PC.

I felt the same way initialy when DA2 was announced as Hawke's story and not the Warden's. But the truth is that DA2 can still be a great game even if it isn't a direct continuation of the Warden's story.
That doesn't mean that all my choices are going to be retold as codex entries or that they won't matter.

The fact that the only satifying scenario for us right now is the one where we play as the Warden in DA3 doesn't mean it truly IS the only satisfying scenario out there.
To me the more important question is how is Morrigan going to reflect our choices from Origins and WH and what happens if she's still alive by the end of DA3? Those things are more likely to make or break DA for me than whether or not the Warden makes an appearance.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 21 novembre 2010 - 11:52 .

[Brockololly]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

I think Flemeth is going to be a bigger player in this because the Warden has no impact on her whatsoever (if you even want to count Flemeth feigning death at the hands of the Warden). That said, I also don't hope that Morrigan fled from Flemeth by heading across the Eluvian, providing a cheap cop-out that's on the same level as "they died the end."

Eh, Gaider did mention in the DA2 forum that how the Warden dealt with Flemeth is definitely accounted for in DA2. What that actually might mean, we'll just have to wait and see...

Terra_Ex wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
You know, thinking about it, WH  made things worse and just temporarily subdued our sadness. It just  added a ton of questions and a choice that needs to have closure, but  will probably not get it.

In retrospect, I think we, or at least  I, was better off with Morrigan leaving forever. That at least was  somewhat of a closure. But now, going tthrough the mirror is something  that will probably never be addressed, at least not as much as it should be.

Depending on what comes of it, I may well be of the same mind.

I don't know- obviously there are a lot of "ifs" but the DR ending sucks. The Witch Hunt ending is nice if we either never were to see Morrigan or the Warden again or the Warden were to come back with Morrigan. There is a lot in between there too, but the only way it provides any sense of closure is if we never see the Warden and Morrigan again, and we're all but assured to see Morrigan again in the future.

The problem with Origins ending with Morrigan was if your Warden went searching for her and had her turn up while the Warden was left cluelessly wandering. There would be no closure at all there. I really, really hope BioWare doesn't screw this one up.

Master Shiori wrote...

Right
now we have no hard info on how things stand with DA3. People here asume
Gaider is the one who decides how things go, but in reality he simply
writes the story and characters once the setting and protagonist have
been decided by higher-ups like Laidlaw.

Thats true, and in part that worries me too considering the guys that made the big decisions on Origins (Tudge and Knowles) aren't with BioWare anymore.  You add into that all the other gameplay/presentation changes and the console focus and I have to wonder if the story focus hasn't shifted along the way too. The very implementation of the voiced PC is a bad omen for the Warden, but also for having any real meaningful consequences given the cost of the VO everything.

So yeah, its not all on Gaider, but still, all I'm saying is that BioWare is far from infallible and have made (IMO) crummy story telling choices in the past, and combined with the other things they're abandoning or changing in DA2, I'm very doubtful we'll get any meaningful payoff on the big choices from Origins.

Master Shiori wrote..
I felt the same way
initialy when DA2 was announced as Hawke's story and not the Warden's.
But the truth is that DA2 can still be a great game even if it isn't a
direct continuation of the Warden's story.
That doesn't mean that all my choices are going to be retold as codex entries or that they won't matter.

No, it could still be good, story wise, but the issue I have is that while you maybe see consequences to certain choices the Warden made, like maybe killing Flemeth, that doesn't mean much to Hawke. And having the new PC, just sort of lessens the impact of any choices/consequences being carried over- it reduces maybe a really cool moment to a mere shoulder shrug.

[Giggles_Manically]

My greatest fear in DA2 is that:

No matter what happened in DAO or any of the after products all we will get is cameo's and rumors we hear and thats it.



Then again I have 20 or so unique wardens to account for so thats a lot of variables to cover. One problem with granting a lot of choice to players is that it creates a TON of variables to account for.

Which probably accounts for why we are getting streamlined into playing Teh Hawke.

[Brockololly]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

My greatest fear in DA2 is that:
No matter what happened in DAO or any of the after products all we will get is cameo's and rumors we hear and thats it.

Then again I have 20 or so unique wardens to account for so thats a lot of variables to cover. One problem with granting a lot of choice to players is that it creates a TON of variables to account for.
Which probably accounts for why we are getting streamlined into playing Teh Hawke.

I mean, as far as choices go, depending on the plot and location of the given game, you might not need a whole lot of consequences. If each game can take a prior choice or a handful of choices and really branch those out, thats cool. I don't know what that would be for DA2, but Gaider has mentioned they have somen specific "slow burning" plots and given how he's said the DR is the biggest choice from Origins, I'd hope that has some meaningful reactivity in the future.

Not every variable and choice has to be accounted for necessarily, but if they are going to dredge up past choices they need to handle them better than emails or shoving off the consequences on some new PC to which they mean nothing.

[Giggles_Manically]

Well lets try and cover the variables then that are likely to be covered:

Origin: 6

Mage Tower: 2 (Annuled or Saved)

Dalish :3 (Werewolves, dalish, Cured)

Orzamar: :4 (Bhelen w/wo anvil, Harrowmont w/wo anvil)

Monarch of F:6 (Alistair H, nH, Anora solo, Warden and Alistair (H/nH), Warden and Anora)

DR :2 ( Taken, or not taken).

End: :4 (US, DR, LR, WC)

Boon :5 (the Origin boon, the chancellor boon, The Teyrn Gwaren, no boon, Wardens honoured)



If you dont include doing the DLC or Awakening thats getting to be a lot.

Plus you have to add what the warden does in the end, and these are just the MAJOR choices.

[Brockololly]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Well lets try and cover the variables then that are likely to be covered:
*snip choices*

If you dont include doing the DLC or Awakening thats getting to be a lot.
Plus you have to add what the warden does in the end, and these are just the MAJOR choices.

Well, I think its up in the air as to how major all those choices are really. If the sequel took place in Ferelden with the Warden again as a direct follow up? Sure. But in DA2, you've got a ton of barriers in place which negate or lessen those choices:

- You're a new PC
- You're not in Ferelden
- Its taking place over 10 years, while Origins took place over 1-2

I think it really depends on the focus of the plot- so if you're having a plot point be something involving the ruler of Ferelden, then you'd want to account for that. But for all we know, stuff like the Werewolves or Mage Tower won't make any difference, especially given the passage of time.

Thats the ultimate cop out really- if they skip ahead years in time, then they can just hand wave stuff away "Oh, sure you made Alistair king, but he choked on a pretzel and died, so we've got a new king." Or "Oh Behlen tripped and fell into a lava pit= new king."

It depends on the focus of the game/story- maybe only a couple of those choices factor into the story of DA2. But if you take Morrigan returning, her appearance is a major thing, but like Witch Hunt showed, you can boil things down in several directions. Depending on the scope and focus of the story and how many resources they want to allocate to that sort of reactivity, its entirely possible. I think its just a question of whether or not BioWare wastes their resources on their cinematic, VO everything at the expense of having meaningful consequences and diverging storylines.

[Giggles_Manically]

I really dont like looking at the DA2 boards right now.



Everything they show is all about:

LEET AWESOME UBER SAMURI CINAMTIC COOLNESS!



Then when I want to look at the story or you know GAMEPLAY for the PC I only get:

Lols you should go because Bioware makes only the best games!



I really am not sure about DA2 since I have not seen gameplay, or heard hawke, or know if the story is any good. I want to see what happens in 2 for sure, but I also want to know that what the warden and his/her choices carry forward and are not sold out for leet splosions and clevage in part 2.



Also i have to say one thing that bugs me about the DR is the end scene:

My god its bad, they play this cheesy song, there is some really weird things going on to the warden's face, and it just seems so OOC. But that is because that is the neutral to warm one we got right?



I think Aimo made a comic (not the one with Alistair) where she shows what she thinks the last night of the warden and Morri would look like if they were in love. I liked that one much more, especially for Bob who was just her friend, because honestly the setup made me curl up and cringe to be honest.

[Brockololly]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I really dont like looking at the DA2 boards right now.

The truth. You speak it.

Giggles_Manically wrote...
Also i have to say one thing that bugs me about the DR is the end scene:
My god its bad, they play this cheesy song, there is some really weird things going on to the warden's face, and it just seems so OOC. But that is because that is the neutral to warm one we got right?

Yeah, that scene is just bizarre for everyone involved. If you're romancing her its weird cause your Warden acts like hot semi naked is growing a second head or something, with the way they have the horrified expression and are scampering away from Morrigan.
Then its weird if you're friendly or Alistair or Loghain do it since you've got Morrigan do the hip sashaying walk with the romance music.

Its the perfect example of when trying to make something cookie cutter or one size fits all, just doesn't work at all.

Modifié par Brockololly, 21 novembre 2010 - 08:44 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Its really dosent seem to fit Morrigan at all, and if I was there I would honestly jump out of my skin.

Dont get me wrong, naked Morri is well you know..

But naked Morri +cheesy music,+ her whole walk.... No thanks.



Hopefully DA2 does not suffer the same cuts.

[Terra_Ex]

Brockololly wrote...
"Oh, sure you made Alistair king, but he choked on a pretzel and died, so we've got a new king."

On a completely random note, the plot of Disgaea (an amusing JRPG) actually began that very way...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
Then when I want to look at the story or you know GAMEPLAY for the PC I only get:

Lols you should go because Bioware makes only the best games!

It seems we only hear about the changes to the PC version by chance due to various articles stirring up the hornets nest, requiring a dev to pop up to clarify before going dark once again... Brock's repeated requests for PC footage has apparently delayed it though, so I attribute the blame to Brock as per usual.

Giggles_Manically wrote...
Also i have to say one thing that bugs me about the DR is the end scene:

My
god its bad, they play this cheesy song, there is some really weird
things going on to the warden's face, and it just seems so OOC. But that
is because that is the neutral to warm one we got right?

I
think Aimo made a comic (not the one with Alistair) where she shows
what she thinks the last night of the warden and Morri would look like
if they were in love. I liked that one much more, especially for Bob who
was just her friend, because honestly the setup made me curl up and
cringe to be honest.

A whole bunch of stuff got cut or amalgamated into a "best fit" solution from redcliffe onwards as I recall. I know we discussed the DR scene WAY back several hundred pages ago, probably before DA2 was announced even. And I don't believe I've seen that particular piece of Aimo's, but I've only been actively following Xi's stuff of late.

[OldMan91]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

:wub:
She can terminate me anytime

*Minionspeak* Sir, sir! Don't succumb now. Be rational! She's just one woman. Surely there are plenty of others out there who can wear shades as nicely as Morrigan!

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Well, I think its up in the air as to how major all those choices are really. If the sequel took place in Ferelden with the Warden again as a direct follow up? Sure. But in DA2, you've got a ton of barriers in place which negate or lessen those choices:

- You're a new PC
- You're not in Ferelden
- Its taking place over 10 years, while Origins took place over 1-2

I think it really depends on the focus of the plot- so if you're having a plot point be something involving the ruler of Ferelden, then you'd want to account for that. But for all we know, stuff like the Werewolves or Mage Tower won't make any difference, especially given the passage of time.

People need to clear it up with themselves as to what is really an important choice that will have an impact in the future and what is a choice that is only important under certain circumstances and is later forgotten.

Deciding who gets to be king of Ferelden is important, since it's likely you'll come across some reference of it even in Free Marches or another country.
Dark Ritual is likewise important becase it's consequences are going to pop up eventually and because it has a huge impact on how your character stands in the end. Also, it's tied to Morrigan, who we know is coming back, so cannot be disregarded out of hand.
King of Orzammar is only important up to a certain point, since you're less likely to hear about him on the surface than the human monarch. The fact that dwarves in DA2 are surface outcasts who don't really care about Orzammar and it's politics doesn't help either. So, unless you visit Orzammar itself, you're unlikely to hear about it's ruler.
Circle Tower and  Dalish Elves are only important inside Ferelden itself and even then it's not something big. Circle ends up the same way regardless of what you do and I doubt anyone will know what happened to a tribe of Elves in some remote forest.
Arl of Redcliffe ends up the same no matter what you do, so no problem there. Unless you really must go into details about his family for some odd reason..

So there, you only really have 2-3 choices to keep track of. Hardly what I'd call difficult.

Brockololly wrote...

Thats the ultimate cop out really- if they skip ahead years in time, then they can just hand wave stuff away "Oh, sure you made Alistair king, but he choked on a pretzel and died, so we've got a new king." Or "Oh Behlen tripped and fell into a lava pit= new king."

It also flies in the face of the whole "your actions shape the world" thing Bioware loves to remind us about in DA. Therefore the chances of that happening are pretty small. It's a lot easier to simply ignore such a choice than to retcon it, since doing so pisses all over their "no canon" philosophy.

Brockololly wrote...

It depends on the focus of the game/story- maybe only a couple of those choices factor into the story of DA2. But if you take Morrigan returning, her appearance is a major thing, but like Witch Hunt showed, you can boil things down in several directions. Depending on the scope and focus of the story and how many resources they want to allocate to that sort of reactivity, its entirely possible. I think its just a question of whether or not BioWare wastes their resources on their cinematic, VO everything at the expense of having meaningful consequences and diverging storylines.

It also comes down to how much a certain event is relevant to the current game. Unless you run into a drunken Alistair in Kirkwall, you'll most likely hear about him being king through the codex or as a comment from patrons in some tavern.

Morrigan related stuff will need to be dealt with in a more prominent way since her mother is part of DA2 and thus can retell you some of it herself. Not to mention that Morrigan herself will be back in DA3  so, again, you cannot wave away anything that is related to her.

Also, Bioware is too experienced t cut out important stuff because of a VO. At worst you're looking at several less "fetch item x for character y or kill z for character a" type of quests. Also less armor and weapons but a lot more visual and stats variety amongst those that are added.
Bad thing? Depends on whether you truly feel it's needed to loot 15 normal daggers of various materials (read colors) before you finally find that unique "Dagger of epic stabiness". Or would you rather cut the trash looting and go straight on to good stuff?

[Brockololly]

Terra_Ex wrote...
It seems we only hear about the changes to the PC version by chance due to various articles stirring up the hornets nest, requiring a dev to pop up to clarify before going dark once again... Brock's repeated requests for PC footage has apparently delayed it though, so I attribute the blame to Brock as per usual.

Ha- yeah, the only time we get any news about the PC version is when some article or something stirs the pot and Laidlaw or Gaider or someone is forced to come in and try to calm the waters. Bleh- yeah, yeah, blame Brocko for no PC footage. I wield such awesome cosmic power as to delay games:wizard:. Seriously, I really do wonder what the heck is going on that they announce a game in July and have released nothing but a handful of screenshots and zero in game gameplay footage yet. I'm guessing they're waiting until after Christmas and all that, but still, they throw up their little January deadline to preorder. *shrugs*

Terra_Ex wrote...
A whole bunch of stuff got cut or amalgamated into a "best fit" solution from redcliffe onwards as I recall. I know we discussed the DR scene WAY back several hundred pages ago, probably before DA2 was announced even.

Yeah, if I recall from the older posts, there was supposed to be an army encampment scene after leaving Redcliffe on the way to Denerim, and thats when the DR was going to be proposed. But that got cut. As did some unique animations for how the scene started out with Morrigan acting all conflicted sitting on the bed versus standing their like some second rate villain in front of the fire. Thats a perfect example really of how poor cinematic design or at least one size fits all cinematics can really screw up a scene.

Master Shiori wrote...

Also, Bioware is too experienced t cut out  important stuff because of a VO. At worst you're looking at several less "fetch item x for character y or kill z for character a" type of  quests. Also less armor and weapons but a lot more visual and stats  variety amongst those that are added. Bad thing? Depends on whether  you truly feel it's needed to loot 15 normal daggers of various  materials (read colors) before you finally find that unique "Dagger of  epic stabiness". Or would you rather cut the trash looting and go  straight on to good stuff?

Not to descend into too much DA2 stuff, but I think its more than just some armor and fetch quests- we know that the entire game is going to be ME2 in length and much shorter than Origins. You add in the ME style armor, thats another memory saving cut. The bottom line is that VO is not only costly in terms of resources and adding in more cinematic design, but its something you need to accomodate for from the start. You're not just adding in one player voice, you've got the male and female voice plus each sarcastic/aggressive/diplomatic choice and all those variations. Thats a ton. We'll not know exactly what is lost or gained until we've played DA2, but as was said before Origins came out, if they had player VO in Origins, it would be 50% shorter- I don't think its any coincidence that DA2 is probably going to be about ME2 length or ~40 hours as compared to DAO's ~80 hours.

Add in the fact that they visually redesigned the art, and thats more resources eaten up, in my mind, needlessly. So instead of getting a BG2 style sequel where they hit the ground running iterating on existing resources, they're uprooting much of what they created in Origins in terms of visuals and presentation and we're ending up with much less content. I won't be very surprised if most of DA2 is really limited to Kirkwall in terms of location and that new content is passed off as having things slightly change through the time jumps.

Modifié par Brockololly, 21 novembre 2010 - 10:48 .

[ejoslin]

You have just stated my biggest objection to a voiced protagonist -- the resources used. I'm happy with a silent protagonist, though; it gives the lines my inner voices and puts me into the conversation rather than watching a conversation.

But really, having half the dialog in DAO would have made the game not nearly as good or in depth. I'm not convinced you gain much having a voiced protagonist, if anything. You still have conversations, just fewer of them.  And cinematic does not mean more involving.

So I'll wait and see.

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 novembre 2010 - 10:54 .

[Giggles_Manically]

As I like to say:

If I want a cinematic experience I will watch a movie.