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THE Morrigan Discussion and Research Thread *Infested with Bugs Yet Again!*


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#1151
Brockololly

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Barbarossa2010 wrote...

My question is, is it really a bug or intended to be as such?  We don't know and BW has not said.

Yeah, you are spot on though.  I think a full out riot would break out on this site.


Yeah have we figured that out yet? Wasn't it kind of concluded that there are 2 "love" flags for Morrigan's romance ( 1 for her being in love, 1 for her being in love but having broken up with the Warden in Denerim)?

Right after Awakening came out and I didn't get the right Morrigan epilogue I PM'd Gaider about this but all I got out of him was this:
"If I remember right, the Morrigan epilogue in Awakening only requires
that your romance with Morrigan be active and that you did not choose to
return to the Grey Wardens at the end of Origins. It might have
changed, however -- I didn't code it, after all."

So yeah, its a bit worrisome how Awakening botched this but I guess we might be getting ahead of ourselves.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The Mother clealry existed when Urthemiel was tainted. Although I am
interested in the Mother's background. It's never explained why she
could breed "the Children".


Yeah, this was one of my problems with Awakening- the whole end game felt really, really rushed. And then they just dump all of the Architect's plans on you at the end. I was hoping to learn abit more about the Mother- my impression was that she was a "normal" human broodmother who went crazy after undergoing the Architect's Joining Ritual. But does that explain why she was pumping out darkspawn like the Children and not normal hurlocks? Was it something to do with the Architect's expierimentation or something? Its frustrating to me when you've got a world as detailed as Thedas and things like this don't get explained. Of course some things will just be mysteries, but when they are featured prominently in the plot like the Children, its disappointing not to get any explanations.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
The thing is, Wardens are only meant to fight the darkspawn and nothing
else. So if somethign interesting happens in Thedas, say like a Qunari
invasion, technically the Warden is not supposed to do anything. So if
the Warden is to make a comeback, it should be somethign darkspawn
related, which is not hard to do. The Old Gods and the blight seem to be
greatly linked, so whatever it is Morrigan has done will have an impact
on the darkspawn, whether for good or bad.


Yeah thats the textbook definition of the Wardens, but I guess I'd look towards Anderfels as an example of the Wardens doing interesting things even without the Blight. I don't doubt that they have more room to explore with the intelligent darkspawn, Old Gods, Morrigan, Flemeth and the Black City- all of those things would link together nicely with the Warden and his Warden-ly duty. My impression from Awakening though was that the First Warden in Weisshaupt kind of wanted the Warden ruling Amaranthine to be a pilot project of sorts and test the waters of expanding the role of the Wardens so that they have more influence even in non-Blight times.

I just think it would be really cool to explore the Anderfels and how the Warden culture differs up there as compared to what we've come to expect of the Wardens in Ferelden. I'd be curious to see various Wardens would react to the Wardens actions, specifically with Morrigan. Surely, the Wardens would be curious as to how the Warden is still alive after killing the Archdemon. Would the Wardens want to kill Morrigan and the Old God Baby?

Master Shiori wrote...
As for epilogue slides about Connor, Sacred Ashes, etc. they could
take place months or years after the battle of Denerim. I always saw
them as taking place over a longer period of time, which doesn't mean
our Warden wasn't off on new adventures in the meantime.


Yeah I was under the impression that most of the epilogue slides that reference events like the Sacred Ashes or Orzammar or Vigil's Keep could span years after the game. I mean in Awakening, if you get the silverite to Wade and Herren you'll get the reference to that order of silverite knights that lasted for thousands of years or something. I think the idea with most of those epilogues is that they may be more final as opposed to some of the character ones which are left kind of vague. In any event, the epilogues are sufficiently vague in most cases that I wouldn't take any of them as written in stone.

As for when DA2 could take place- its interesting, Awakening I think is said to take place anywhere from "several" to 6 months after Origins. So how long did the events of Awakening take to complete? I think Origins took about 1-2 years or so (just my impression) and so maybe Awakening took about 6 months or so?  Then of course the Warden stuck around the Vigil for a while before running off. So you'd figure that by the time DA2 rolls out I would guess anywhere from 5-10 years will have passed from Origins.

blademaster7 wrote...
Anything is possible I guess. I just hope they don't fast forward
the whole thing 30 years and let the Warden die in the deep roads or
something.


My thoughts exactly- I really hope Bioware doesn't skip ahead some huge jump in time and only reference the events of Origins as history long since passed. Eventually that could be a cool thing to do, but the Warden and Morrigan need some closure 1st. Only time will tell...

#1152
Shade of Wolf

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So would you guys be willing to kill other party members to protect Morrigan? I know I wouldn't mind chopping off Alistair's head, even though I let him be king. But for some reason I'm thinking the party would be divided.
Team Morrigan:Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image Team Annihilate Morrigan:
MePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImageLeliana -maybe not if hardened
ZevranPosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image Sten
Wynne possibly?Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image Alistair
Oghren (as long as you bribe him)
Shale??

Will we ever hear of Awakening party members again? i personally couldn't care less for them, maybe because of the lack of dialogue.

Favourite quote from Children of Húrin from memory (sadness here)
'Hail Gurthang! No lord or loyalty dost thou know, save the hand that wieldeth thee. From no blood wilt thou shrink. Wilt thou therefore take Túrin Turambar, wilt thou slay me swiftly?'
And from the blade rang a cold voice in answer: 'Yea, I will drink thy blood gladly, so that I may forget the blood of Beleg my master, and the blood of Brandir slain unjustly. I will slay thee swiftly.'
Then Túrin set the hilts upon the ground and cast himself upon the point of Gurthang, and the blade took his life.

I like to use the original language =)

-Ignore if you please lol

Modifié par Shade of Wolf, 23 avril 2010 - 05:00 .


#1153
Count Viceroy

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Holy smilies batman

#1154
Shade of Wolf

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Count Viceroy wrote...

Holy smilies batman

Lol

#1155
ejoslin

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Wynne is on the wrong team. Wynne, despite being an abomination, does not disagree with the chantry laws for other mages!

#1156
AlanC9

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Brockololly wrote...

That line bugs me- Morrigan says it with such nonchalance that almost any time I play through and get to that point I feel like having my Warden throw his arms up in the air and go "Huh? I'm not supposed to be surprised that Flemeth saved me and Alistair for the reason of impregnating her daughter so that when we kill the Archdemon its soul can seek out the newly formed blastula and create some sort of Old God Baby thing? Oh yeah, you're right Morrigan, that doesn't surprise me at all- totally saw that one coming.":huh:


You mean you didn't expect that Flemeth had some ulterior motive? Really? The specifics are surprising, but not the general picture.

Of course, this isn't the best way to sell you on the idea. But like I said, Morrigan's got no idea how to actually get people to do stuff.

#1157
Shade of Wolf

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ejoslin wrote...

Wynne is on the wrong team. Wynne, despite being an abomination, does not disagree with the chantry laws for other mages!

I know that, but Wynne could be dead (lol) by the time it happens (if ever) and my PC had a strong relationship with her, although I do agree that there would be a high chance of her going for Morrigan's neck. Oh well, slice goes th Wynne..

Modifié par Shade of Wolf, 23 avril 2010 - 06:09 .


#1158
Shade of Wolf

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So who let the Architect live? Will Awakening choices actually affect DA2? Bioware are hardly gonna make the game expandable to Awakening, are they? It would be more logical, if outrageous, to expand onto Origins.

#1159
Shade of Wolf

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Oh poor poor Morrigan...
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/8/index/385771
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/139657
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/47/index/324310
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/96/index/740053

I saw Blademaster post in one I think...random I know, just a familiar face lol... sort of.

Brace yourselves...
http://social.biowar...t_media_id=2161

Modifié par Shade of Wolf, 23 avril 2010 - 06:37 .


#1160
blademaster7

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Barbarossa2010 wrote...

If you forego talking to her after
the Gates of Denerim farewells, you get to keep a Love relationship,
but you do not get the regret and sorrow Epilogue.  Completely screwed
up.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Seriously, Bioware should take this into account. I really don't want to play DA2 with my canonical Warden, only to find out that Morrigan forgot about the romance because of this bug. That would push me to make another playthrough and I would still miss the ring ending. Ugh.


Awakening is not exactly famous for it's functionality. It was rushed and full of bugs.

The flags are in your saves. Romances, dark ritual... everything. If they plan on letting us import those saves in DA2 then it's up to the devs not to screw it up again.

Terra_ex also found some notes in the toolset. There is a hidden flag named EPI_PC_FEELINGS_FOR_MORRIGAN that has no influence on the game. You get it AFTER you finish  the game.

We just have to wait and see.

#1161
Barbarossa2010

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Shade of Wolf wrote...


Oh poor poor Morrigan...
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/8/index/385771
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/139657
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/47/index/324310
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/96/index/740053

I saw Blademaster post in one I think...random I know, just a familiar face lol... sort of.

Brace yourselves...
http://social.biowar...t_media_id=2161



OMG Shade ROFLMAO,

She looks like Marcus Fenix in GOW.

http://unrealitymag....08/11/fenix.jpg

Now that was funny.

#1162
Count Viceroy

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Shade of Wolf wrote...


Oh poor poor Morrigan...
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/8/index/385771
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/139657
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/47/index/324310
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/96/index/740053

I saw Blademaster post in one I think...random I know, just a familiar face lol... sort of.

Brace yourselves...
http://social.biowar...t_media_id=2161


Hilarious. :P

#1163
Barbarossa2010

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Shade of Wolf wrote...

So who let the Architect live? Will Awakening choices actually affect DA2? Bioware are hardly gonna make the game expandable to Awakening, are they? It would be more logical, if outrageous, to expand onto Origins.


You know, I let him live.  Again, not sure if that was a good thing or not.  Typical big decision with too little info and no ability to press for answers. 

Snap decision trying to weigh the odds in a few minutes. 

Not sure if the right thing for my hardcore Warden was do a possible good thing for the Darkspawn in ending Blights once and for all balanced against his version of the Joining using Grey Wardens for their blood.

My gut told me to give him a chance, he seemed sincere and unselfish in his motives and he wasn't killing Grey Wardens to the best of my knowledge. I assumed if we formed an alliance he could approach me seeking volunteers to donate blood later.  If only Morrigan could have come across that way at the DR.

#1164
Brockololly

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Shade of Wolf wrote...
Brace yourselves...
http://social.biowar...t_media_id=2161


Bwaahahaha! Looks like Morrigan has been hitting the gym!

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
You know, I let him live.  Again, not sure if that was a good thing or not.  Typical big decision with too little info and no ability to press for answers. 

Snap decision trying to weigh the odds in a few minutes. 

Not sure if the right thing for my hardcore Warden wasdo a possible good thing for the Darkspawn in ending Blights once and for all balanced against his version of the Joining using Grey Wardens for their blood.

My gut told me to give him a chance, he seemed sincere and unselfish in his motives and he wasn't killing Grey Wardens to the best of my knowledge. I assumed if we formed an alliance he couldapproach me seeking volunteers to donate blood later.  If only Morrigan could have come across that way at the DR.


Kind of interesting that your hardcore Warden let him live.

Agreed on not having enough information though. The problem as I saw it was having read The Calling, I felt like killing him would be the safe thing to do- he may not be intentionally malicious in his intent but he has no regard for life- the Architect is really quite "the ends justify the means" sort of character. Even if he is remorseful for unintentionally starting the Blight, the fact remains that thats a pretty big screw up and cost countless people their lives, good intentions or not.

But for my Warden, I didn't metagame with The Calling, so ultimately I let him live. Kind of the same logic as i applied it to Morrigan's Ritual- I figure its better to potentially gain an ally and if something bad happens in the future, my Warden will be around to clean up the mess he started. And by keeping the Architect alive, at least the Awakened darkspawn have a leader of sorts that the Warden knows- if you kill the Architect who is to say that another Mother-type crazy Awakened darkspawn could take control. And to boot, even if you kill the Architect you still have intelligent darkpawn roaming about, potentially with no guidance.

The one thing that bugged me too was that we never really got any explanation of what the deal was with Velanna's sister. She was obviously helping the Architect, but how? She wasn;t a Grey Warden like Utha and yet Velanna's sister looked like she was getting tainted a little (skin discoloration, eyes all messed up).

Modifié par Brockololly, 23 avril 2010 - 07:40 .


#1165
Terra_Ex

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Finally time to check in - first version of the Morrigan Restoration Patch is available:
http://social.biowar...m/project/2553/

Apologies for the delayed release of the mod - everything was nearly good to go last night when the toolset decided to die and take down the database along with it, the end result being an inability to save any file you added a conversation branch to. Then I had more joyous issues with the toolset's dislike of my revised plot files *ugh*
After many trials and tribulations, everything is now up and running (and I may have lost a few years off my life). These things always tend to happen when you set a definite date for a release :) So yeah, it's a day late but better late than never.

Anyways, this is obviously the first release and very much in beta status. It works on my machine, so that's something. I think there are a significant number of issues addressed in this first release but I'm sure there are more errors waiting to be discovered.

I'd like to extend my thanks to all those who have supported this endeavour :)

I'll be uploading it to the Nexus shortly as a beta mod.

If I've missed anyone off the readme credits section let me know.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 23 avril 2010 - 08:26 .


#1166
blademaster7

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Downloaded and installed. I will test it later and report back. B)

Thanks for this!

#1167
Terra_Ex

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Have fun blademaster, its also available on the Nexus now for those who prefer: http://www.dragonage...ile.php?id=1120

Got to catch up on a couple of pages of Morrigan-related posts now :)

#1168
blademaster7

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Did you make the STILL_IN_LOVE flag linked with the romance? Just curious...


Anyway... I just loaded a post-epilogue save and when I talked to Morrigan she gave me the "You return from the wilds speech"

Oh oh... that was ages ago... :P

If you gave her the grimoire earlier or have it in your inventory you won't have the option to say "Here it is". You'll just say no and get disapproval... For those of you who let Flemeth live you will probably lose Morrigan from your party the next time you go to camp.

If you already finished her side-quest DON'T install the mod.

EDIT:
I didn't check everything. Most of your fixes seem to work. Great job.

Btw, if you ask her to break up when her approval is "love" she's really seems broken about it. She tries to hide it but her voice falters a bit. Why didn't we get something similar for the DR... argh!

Modifié par blademaster7, 23 avril 2010 - 09:25 .


#1169
Swoo

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Woot, downloaded. I'll tell you what I think when I get to the point it's supposed to kick in, I stopped my (new) game in the tower gathering the book so shouldn't take long.

Just as an aside, what's the 'selfish bastard' dialogue? It doesn't ring any bells.

Terra_Ex wrote...

Have fun blademaster, its also available on the Nexus now for those who prefer: http://www.dragonage...ile.php?id=1120

Got to catch up on a couple of pages of Morrigan-related posts now :)



#1170
Addai

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Looking forward to this!

#1171
Master Shiori

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Going to download it as well.



Will report back after some testing.

#1172
Terra_Ex

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blademaster7 wrote...

Did you make the STILL_IN_LOVE flag linked with the romance? Just curious...

Still in love is still in place and unchanged, what I did is remove the action at the end of the game which unsets Romance Active, since all that is accomplishing is breaking the Awakening import. So, if you want the Awakening/post game love dialog fixes, you need a save from before you have the FINAL optional talk in Denerim.


blademaster7 wrote...

Anyway... I just loaded a post-epilogue save and when I talked to Morrigan she gave me the "You return from the wilds speech"

Oh oh... that was ages ago... :P

If you gave her the grimoire earlier or have it in your inventory you won't have the option to say "Here it is". You'll just say no and get disapproval... For those of you who let Flemeth live you will probably lose Morrigan from your party the next time you go to camp.

Yep, since my fixes use some new plot flags, that event will fire immediately if you load up a game where you've completed the character quest. I'll probably add an additional check to that actually, now that I think about it - a flag that prevents in from firing if you've already completed that questline - the problem was literally none of the flags pertaining to this questline are set properly in the vanilla game, hence why you get problems like Flemeth's status in the epilogue - in the vanilla game, the flag regarding her death is never set, only the codex entry flag is updated.

My fix regarding the "you return from the wilds" dialog only kicks in at the right time for players who haven't already completed her quest. (As you can appreciate, there's simply no feasible way I can solve this for player's that completed it ages ago) If you've gave the grimoire to her as a gift item, then yeah, you are outta luck sadly. Blame the original coders. I can guarantee you that if you play the quest from start to finish as a new character - everything will work perfectly :

blademaster7 wrote...
If you already finished her side-quest DON'T install the mod.

You can still lie/persuade her though, its only a Medium persuasion check iirc.

blademaster7 wrote...
EDIT:
I didn't check everything. Most of your fixes seem to work. Great job.

Btw, if you ask her to break up when her approval is "love" she's really seems broken about it. She tries to hide it but her voice falters a bit. Why didn't we get something similar for the DR... argh!


Yeah, I know, some of these dialog branches are fantastic. Flaming knives is in there, btw :) New characters will have the most feature-complete experience for sure, I'll probably start a new playthough myself shortly.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 23 avril 2010 - 09:43 .


#1173
blademaster7

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Terra_Ex wrote...

Still in love is still in place and unchanged, what I did is remove the action at the end of the game which unsets Romance Active, since all that is accomplishing is breaking the Awakening import. So, if you want the Awakening/post game love dialog fixes, you need a save from before you have the FINAL optional talk in Denerim.

I'm just curious if I can trigger the ring in my epilogue with that flag. That is of course without going all the way.

I have a suspicion that I can get it when entering the final battle with the romane inactive.

Romance her all the way to love, break up with her when she asks(seems to me that you get the flag here) and then just accept to be friends. Do the ritual.... and at the gates she will confess her feelings and you get the epilogue.

That's what I figured out from the toolset anyway...

Modifié par blademaster7, 23 avril 2010 - 10:13 .


#1174
Count Viceroy

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Yay, will try it out tomorrow.

#1175
elemme

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Hi everyone, I have been lurking this thread and had a couple of questions. The Dialog for the DR feels very much one size fits all it that how it is really coded?



I know the games tracks a love/friendship level. Is that the only thing it tracks or does it also track some hidden things reflecting the warden decisions?