Well when all that Bioware can come up with is "Think like a general, fight like a spartan!" and "press a button and something awesome happens!!", then all we have left is to facepalm at their marketing.
THE Morrigan Discussion and Research Thread *Infested with Bugs Yet Again!*
Débuté par
Brockololly
, mars 19 2010 07:14
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#11927
Posté 14 décembre 2010 - 02:42
naledgeborn
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What people tend to overlook in regards to Witch Hunt is IMO it's most important feature. Depending on how you treated her and your decision at the end you could very well end up with "good", "bad", or "ugly" Morrigan. I think Witch Hunt ultimately influences her means and motivations.
#11928
Posté 14 décembre 2010 - 03:05
Master Shiori
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naledgeborn wrote...
What people tend to overlook in regards to Witch Hunt is IMO it's most important feature. Depending on how you treated her and your decision at the end you could very well end up with "good", "bad", or "ugly" Morrigan. I think Witch Hunt ultimately influences her means and motivations.
That is the single most important feature that Witch Hunt had. It shows that Bioware is able to take you prior history with a companion into acount and have it influence how that companion responds and develops.
It's excellent news for anyone who wants his/her previous history with Morrigan to have an impact in the future, since it shows how you can eliminate the "one size fits all" scenarios.
#11929
Posté 14 décembre 2010 - 04:56
Brockololly
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[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
Honestly? Every DLC after Warden's Keep featured recycled enviroments, which isn't strange for $5 or $7 worth of content that includes VO's. Also, the only DLC that tried to sell off old enviroments as new locales was the Golems of Angarrak. Witch Hunt had a good story for it's length and price. It gave you 2 new characters that were, imo, better than the ones in Golems or Leliana's Song.[/quote]
I'll grant that the characters were far better in WH than any other DLC. BUt just like Leliana's SOng, it would seem they forced the recycled environments into it such that they retconned the epilogues, as Morrigan should have been in Orlais, Just hand waving that away even after the Awakening epilogue has you going to Orlais after hee just seems cheap- just like how they hand waved away Leliana's Song by having it set in Ferelden.
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
The story wasn't as great as it was in Origins, but then what DLC was? Personally, I enjoyed seeing familiar places one last time and remembering the fun moments I had there. [/quote]
Yeah, but the problem with the story in WH is much the same as the problem with Awakening. Awakening has the Architect as supposedly the focal point of the plot, and yet he's in it for all of what? 5 minutes? And half of that is exposition crammed in at the end? Its the same problem with Witch Hunt- when you plaster Morrigan's face all over it and trumpet it as the "Morrigan" DLC and she's only in it for about 5 minutes? People will be disappointed.
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
Also, Arianne's comment about Warden and Morrigan and about the ring is the first time a companion's actually showed interest in Warden's personal problems rather than just go on and on about her own troubles. It was a pleasant surprise and hopefully an indication of good things to come in DA2.[/quote]
Probably one of my favorite moments in all of DA.
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
I wouldn't nominate Witch Hunt as the worst DLC, especially since DSC or GoA are way worse imo. However, WH could have been better receive had Bioware been more carefull about it's marketing and more forthcoming with the promised answers.
[/quote]
Its about expectations- and they grossly botched that. Morrigan and her mystery is the big big loose end at the end of Origins and seemed like likely sequel bait. So when you prop up a MOrrigan DLC and claim its the last one for the Warden and will answer Morrigan questions and you tell us absolutely nothing of substance on Morrigan's plans, yeah, people will be pissed.
[quote]blademaster7 wrote...
Witch Hunt deserves to get that. Hopefully it will be a wake up slap to Bioware.
All things considered, WH was worse than DC. The former was advertised as a story based DLC that was supposed to wrap up DAO and reveal Morrigan's secrets. Not only did it fail at that but it was also buggy and gamebreaking for a month.
Darkspawn Chronicles may be bad, but it didn't have hype and expectations surrounding it.[/quote]
Exactly- the issue is that you had stuff like this in the announcement trailer for WH:
And then stuff like this:
They didn't reveal Morrigan's ultimate fate, they barely answered any Morrigan questions and sure as hell didn't reveal her secrets. Come on- did the marketing people even play this DLC? The issue is that they shoved Morrigan into a $7 DLC and it felt like a $5 DLC at best- I'm not complaining about the price, but just that its seems to me that any continuation of MOrrigan's story should have taken place in the context of an expack or at least a more fleshed out DLC, something like a Shadow Broker or the Fallout DLC's.
And then with the bugginess in WH, while that might not break the game in a techincal sense, when the patch doesn't come out for months on end (for the consoles) and weeks for the PC, thats just completely shooting yourself in the foot. Those first impressions count.
[quote]ejoslin wrote...
I thought that DAO DLCs constantly getting panned by the critics would wake them up and have them make better quality DLCs. Instead, they quit making DLCs altogether.
[/quote]
Yeah, if they weren't going to make better content its not a loss, but I hope they've learned something from all this though and don't simply take it the wrong way somehow and toss the baby out with the bathwater now like they seem fond of doing when "fixing" things. Instead of just about monthly crummy DLC, I'd much prefer maybe just 2-3 DLC's that are well thought out and up to par with the original game and a nice expansion pack or something. Rockstar style DLC, like the episodes for GTA4 or even Undead Nightmare for Red Dead Redemption- thats a $10 DLC that lasts at least 10 hours or so for most people, with new stuff to boot!
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
As far as gameplay goes it wasn't worse then any other DLC. For the story it's a matter of taste. I found it to be satisfactory. [/quote]
Thats my issue with DLC and Awakening in general - they weren't abjectly "terrible" necessarily, but they sure as hell were not up to par or of the same quality as Origins as a whole. They felt like Dragon Age on a budget- to the extent that they retconned lore, namely Orlais's significance.
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
Throw away companions? Yeah right. I'd love Gamespot to show me which DLC companions (other than Shale) weren't throw away. [/quote]
Thats an issue with the whole disposable companion/roster update mentality we've got going in DA. You can't constantly introduce new companions in a 45 minute DLC and expect them not to come across as more shallow than the Origins companions, but thats the reality of it- people WILL compare it to the base game, fair or not. Same goes with the inevitable comparions DA2 will have to Origins or ME2, given its style change.
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
Marketing hype was where you can find the blame, not the story and certainly not Morrigan herself (We knew before Witch Hunt was out that Morrigan would play an important role in a future DA game. Did anyone honestly believe they were going to reveal her secrets in a $7 DLC?!). Hell, I'd go so far to say that what they did could easily be labeled as false marketing. Hopefully, this incident will make Bioware realize that they need a hell of a lot more communication between writing team and marketing team.[/quote]
Well, like those banner splash ads above, the "all your morrigan questions answered" one was the original and then I PM'd Gaider about it and he facepalmed. Then it changed the next day to the other one. Still is misleading, but I think people know that good DLC does exist for games outside of DA- stuff that adds to the story and doesn't feel like it was made on the cheap. People have high expectations from BioWare and with people thinking WH was going to be the epic conclusion to Origins and finally spill some beans on Morrigan, yeah, disappointment was inevitable.
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
I only expected one thing from Witch Hunt and that was an ending that is on par with what other LI's got. That is exaclty what they delivered. Expecting anything more from Witch Hunt would have been unrealistic.
[/quote]
I was happy with it, but I don't think its unrealistic to have gotten something out of Morrigan- she tells you vaguely about Flemeth and "change" but those come across as teasing DA2 or DA3 more than anything of substance.
Honestly I just wanted my Warden to pull a Samuel L Jackson once Morrigan started talking all evasive and cryptically and go "ENGLISH MOTHER***** DO YOU SPEAK IT?" And I like Morrigan! The problem was Morrigan came across as annoyingly vague and cryptic as Flemeth does in Origins, and I absolutely can't stand Flemeth's wishy washy mumbo jumbo.
It would be one thing to pull this sort of cryptic talk and then have it followed up soon after in some form, but to just leave Morrigan's story with the Warden at Witch Hunt? Its massively disappointing if you expected anything of note and thats the big vibe you get from reading reviews on WH- people expected more than a 45 minute recycled location DLC when dealing with the biggest loose end from Origins.
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
[quote]naledgeborn wrote...
What people tend to overlook in regards to Witch Hunt is IMO it's most important feature. Depending on how you treated her and your decision at the end you could very well end up with "good", "bad", or "ugly" Morrigan. I think Witch Hunt ultimately influences her means and motivations. [/quote]
That is the single most important feature that Witch Hunt had. It shows that Bioware is able to take you prior history with a companion into acount and have it influence how that companion responds and develops.
It's excellent news for anyone who wants his/her previous history with Morrigan to have an impact in the future, since it shows how you can eliminate the "one size fits all" scenarios.
[/quote]
*casts Dispel Hope*
Sure, you have those flags, and WH took Morrigan's prior state into ccount. But that was also bugged and unless its the Warden interacting with Morrigan again, I don't know how much those flags really mean much in the long run. But I think we've been over that.
Honestly? Every DLC after Warden's Keep featured recycled enviroments, which isn't strange for $5 or $7 worth of content that includes VO's. Also, the only DLC that tried to sell off old enviroments as new locales was the Golems of Angarrak. Witch Hunt had a good story for it's length and price. It gave you 2 new characters that were, imo, better than the ones in Golems or Leliana's Song.[/quote]
I'll grant that the characters were far better in WH than any other DLC. BUt just like Leliana's SOng, it would seem they forced the recycled environments into it such that they retconned the epilogues, as Morrigan should have been in Orlais, Just hand waving that away even after the Awakening epilogue has you going to Orlais after hee just seems cheap- just like how they hand waved away Leliana's Song by having it set in Ferelden.
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
The story wasn't as great as it was in Origins, but then what DLC was? Personally, I enjoyed seeing familiar places one last time and remembering the fun moments I had there. [/quote]
Yeah, but the problem with the story in WH is much the same as the problem with Awakening. Awakening has the Architect as supposedly the focal point of the plot, and yet he's in it for all of what? 5 minutes? And half of that is exposition crammed in at the end? Its the same problem with Witch Hunt- when you plaster Morrigan's face all over it and trumpet it as the "Morrigan" DLC and she's only in it for about 5 minutes? People will be disappointed.
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
Also, Arianne's comment about Warden and Morrigan and about the ring is the first time a companion's actually showed interest in Warden's personal problems rather than just go on and on about her own troubles. It was a pleasant surprise and hopefully an indication of good things to come in DA2.[/quote]
Probably one of my favorite moments in all of DA.
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
I wouldn't nominate Witch Hunt as the worst DLC, especially since DSC or GoA are way worse imo. However, WH could have been better receive had Bioware been more carefull about it's marketing and more forthcoming with the promised answers.
[/quote]
Its about expectations- and they grossly botched that. Morrigan and her mystery is the big big loose end at the end of Origins and seemed like likely sequel bait. So when you prop up a MOrrigan DLC and claim its the last one for the Warden and will answer Morrigan questions and you tell us absolutely nothing of substance on Morrigan's plans, yeah, people will be pissed.
[quote]blademaster7 wrote...
Witch Hunt deserves to get that. Hopefully it will be a wake up slap to Bioware.
All things considered, WH was worse than DC. The former was advertised as a story based DLC that was supposed to wrap up DAO and reveal Morrigan's secrets. Not only did it fail at that but it was also buggy and gamebreaking for a month.
Darkspawn Chronicles may be bad, but it didn't have hype and expectations surrounding it.[/quote]
Exactly- the issue is that you had stuff like this in the announcement trailer for WH:
And then stuff like this:
They didn't reveal Morrigan's ultimate fate, they barely answered any Morrigan questions and sure as hell didn't reveal her secrets. Come on- did the marketing people even play this DLC? The issue is that they shoved Morrigan into a $7 DLC and it felt like a $5 DLC at best- I'm not complaining about the price, but just that its seems to me that any continuation of MOrrigan's story should have taken place in the context of an expack or at least a more fleshed out DLC, something like a Shadow Broker or the Fallout DLC's.
And then with the bugginess in WH, while that might not break the game in a techincal sense, when the patch doesn't come out for months on end (for the consoles) and weeks for the PC, thats just completely shooting yourself in the foot. Those first impressions count.
[quote]ejoslin wrote...
I thought that DAO DLCs constantly getting panned by the critics would wake them up and have them make better quality DLCs. Instead, they quit making DLCs altogether.
[/quote]
Yeah, if they weren't going to make better content its not a loss, but I hope they've learned something from all this though and don't simply take it the wrong way somehow and toss the baby out with the bathwater now like they seem fond of doing when "fixing" things. Instead of just about monthly crummy DLC, I'd much prefer maybe just 2-3 DLC's that are well thought out and up to par with the original game and a nice expansion pack or something. Rockstar style DLC, like the episodes for GTA4 or even Undead Nightmare for Red Dead Redemption- thats a $10 DLC that lasts at least 10 hours or so for most people, with new stuff to boot!
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
As far as gameplay goes it wasn't worse then any other DLC. For the story it's a matter of taste. I found it to be satisfactory. [/quote]
Thats my issue with DLC and Awakening in general - they weren't abjectly "terrible" necessarily, but they sure as hell were not up to par or of the same quality as Origins as a whole. They felt like Dragon Age on a budget- to the extent that they retconned lore, namely Orlais's significance.
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
Throw away companions? Yeah right. I'd love Gamespot to show me which DLC companions (other than Shale) weren't throw away. [/quote]
Thats an issue with the whole disposable companion/roster update mentality we've got going in DA. You can't constantly introduce new companions in a 45 minute DLC and expect them not to come across as more shallow than the Origins companions, but thats the reality of it- people WILL compare it to the base game, fair or not. Same goes with the inevitable comparions DA2 will have to Origins or ME2, given its style change.
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
Marketing hype was where you can find the blame, not the story and certainly not Morrigan herself (We knew before Witch Hunt was out that Morrigan would play an important role in a future DA game. Did anyone honestly believe they were going to reveal her secrets in a $7 DLC?!). Hell, I'd go so far to say that what they did could easily be labeled as false marketing. Hopefully, this incident will make Bioware realize that they need a hell of a lot more communication between writing team and marketing team.[/quote]
Well, like those banner splash ads above, the "all your morrigan questions answered" one was the original and then I PM'd Gaider about it and he facepalmed. Then it changed the next day to the other one. Still is misleading, but I think people know that good DLC does exist for games outside of DA- stuff that adds to the story and doesn't feel like it was made on the cheap. People have high expectations from BioWare and with people thinking WH was going to be the epic conclusion to Origins and finally spill some beans on Morrigan, yeah, disappointment was inevitable.
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
I only expected one thing from Witch Hunt and that was an ending that is on par with what other LI's got. That is exaclty what they delivered. Expecting anything more from Witch Hunt would have been unrealistic.
[/quote]
I was happy with it, but I don't think its unrealistic to have gotten something out of Morrigan- she tells you vaguely about Flemeth and "change" but those come across as teasing DA2 or DA3 more than anything of substance.
Honestly I just wanted my Warden to pull a Samuel L Jackson once Morrigan started talking all evasive and cryptically and go "ENGLISH MOTHER***** DO YOU SPEAK IT?" And I like Morrigan! The problem was Morrigan came across as annoyingly vague and cryptic as Flemeth does in Origins, and I absolutely can't stand Flemeth's wishy washy mumbo jumbo.
It would be one thing to pull this sort of cryptic talk and then have it followed up soon after in some form, but to just leave Morrigan's story with the Warden at Witch Hunt? Its massively disappointing if you expected anything of note and thats the big vibe you get from reading reviews on WH- people expected more than a 45 minute recycled location DLC when dealing with the biggest loose end from Origins.
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
[quote]naledgeborn wrote...
What people tend to overlook in regards to Witch Hunt is IMO it's most important feature. Depending on how you treated her and your decision at the end you could very well end up with "good", "bad", or "ugly" Morrigan. I think Witch Hunt ultimately influences her means and motivations. [/quote]
That is the single most important feature that Witch Hunt had. It shows that Bioware is able to take you prior history with a companion into acount and have it influence how that companion responds and develops.
It's excellent news for anyone who wants his/her previous history with Morrigan to have an impact in the future, since it shows how you can eliminate the "one size fits all" scenarios.
[/quote]
*casts Dispel Hope*
Sure, you have those flags, and WH took Morrigan's prior state into ccount. But that was also bugged and unless its the Warden interacting with Morrigan again, I don't know how much those flags really mean much in the long run. But I think we've been over that.
Modifié par Brockololly, 14 décembre 2010 - 04:58 .
#11930
Posté 14 décembre 2010 - 07:11
Tigress M
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Drive by pic...
I just died laughing when I came across this today, and knew I had to share it with all the Morrigan lovers out there. Enjoy!
(right-click for larger view)
I just died laughing when I came across this today, and knew I had to share it with all the Morrigan lovers out there. Enjoy!
(right-click for larger view)
#11931
Posté 14 décembre 2010 - 08:41
Brockololly
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Tigress M wrote...
Drive by pic...
I just died laughing when I came across this today, and knew I had to share it with all the Morrigan lovers out there. Enjoy!
*snip*
Haha- thats one of her best lines I'd say!
#11932
Posté 14 décembre 2010 - 08:59
Master Shiori
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Brockololly wrote...
*casts Dispel Hope*
Sure, you have those flags, and WH took Morrigan's prior state into ccount. But that was also bugged and unless its the Warden interacting with Morrigan again, I don't know how much those flags really mean much in the long run. But I think we've been over that.
We have. Which is why I won't start that argument again.
I'll just say that regardless of whether or not we see the Warden again, Morrigan should be shapped by our choices and realtionship from Origins and that's what I want to see. Moreso, I want to see all these things make an impact on her ultimate fate.
Without the flags (bugged or no) that wouldn't be possible.
Also, after having Fallout: New Vegas crash and/or freeze 20 times in a day I'll never complain about another bug from DA:O. Bugged or no I've never played a single Bioware title that was as broken as F:NV.
#11933
Posté 14 décembre 2010 - 09:00
Master Shiori
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Tigress M wrote...
Drive by pic...
I just died laughing when I came across this today, and knew I had to share it with all the Morrigan lovers out there. Enjoy!
(right-click for larger view)
Awesome screenie. Thank you for sharing it.
#11934
Posté 14 décembre 2010 - 10:32
Lord_Anthonior
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Tigress M wrote...
Drive by pic...
I just died laughing when I came across this today, and knew I had to share it with all the Morrigan lovers out there. Enjoy!
(right-click for larger view)
I love how honest she is and how true she present the facts!!! Thanks for the pic!!!
#11935
Posté 15 décembre 2010 - 06:39
LTS_Guitarian
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For some reason that picture reminds of the time a squirrel climbed into Morrigan's pants and Morrigan said "Silly squirrel. I have no nuts in there."
*freaky*
*freaky*
#11936
Posté 15 décembre 2010 - 05:25
Morrigans God son
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I'm looking at that screenshot right now and all I can think of is; how terrible the graphics on xbox 360 is lol
#11937
Posté 15 décembre 2010 - 06:27
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
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MKDAWUSS wrote...
I'd be curious to know how many people did no romance (of any character) and did no DR... I mean, there is that segment of the population out there as well.
I did, with my DN playthrough. Though she was female, she still didn't make Loghain do it.
#11938
Posté 15 décembre 2010 - 06:29
KnightofPhoenix
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Morrigans God son wrote...
I'm looking at that screenshot right now and all I can think of is; how terrible the graphics on xbox 360 is lol
Yes, I have the 360 version and the PC version and they can't be compared. The PC version is superior in everyway.
#11939
Posté 15 décembre 2010 - 06:36
MKDAWUSS
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KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Morrigans God son wrote...
I'm looking at that screenshot right now and all I can think of is; how terrible the graphics on xbox 360 is lol
Yes, I have the 360 version and the PC version and they can't be compared. The PC version is superior in everyway.
Not to mention you can get graphic/texture mods for the PC
#11942
Posté 16 décembre 2010 - 05:27
Collider
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She's got a scheming look on her face there.
Also, concept art that I've never seen before.
Also, concept art that I've never seen before.
#11943
Posté 16 décembre 2010 - 05:48
Brockololly
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Here is the full concept art:
#11944
Posté 16 décembre 2010 - 06:21
Lord_Anthonior
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It would've been cool to see Morrigan wearing her hood in some cut scenes or maybe at some parts in the game, which one would you consider might have been those? I do however, don't mind that she never wore her hood.
#11945
Posté 16 décembre 2010 - 07:32
LTS_Guitarian
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I'm glad they never showed her with her hood. Personally, I always thought it looked kinda goofy (not that I'd tell her that to her face, mind you.)
#11946
Posté 16 décembre 2010 - 10:18
Esbatty
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I liked the hood. But I'm weird that way.
#11947
Posté 16 décembre 2010 - 12:03
LTS_Guitarian
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I dunno. I liked her hair the way it was in the game. The whole pony tail sticking out of the back never did it for me. It seemed like dumb emo-goth type thing. Just not my cup of tea. But from what I gather, a lot of people preferred her with the hood.
Modifié par LTS_Guitarian, 16 décembre 2010 - 12:04 .
#11948
Posté 16 décembre 2010 - 12:23
ximena
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I usually hide her bun/ponytail when I draw her with her hood up. XD I don't think it's feasible to have a hood designed with a hole on it. Haha.
#11949
Posté 16 décembre 2010 - 12:32
Lord_Anthonior
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ximena wrote...
I usually hide her bun/ponytail when I draw her with her hood up. XD I don't think it's feasible to have a hood designed with a hole on it. Haha.
Indeed, what would it be the point of the hood with a hole if it rains?
Maybe in Heaven or in the Circle tower would've been good places for her to wear the hood. I like her with or without the hood anyway.
#11950
Posté 16 décembre 2010 - 12:49
LTS_Guitarian
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Lord_Anthonior wrote...
ximena wrote...
I usually hide her bun/ponytail when I draw her with her hood up. XD I don't think it's feasible to have a hood designed with a hole on it. Haha.
Indeed, what would it be the point of the hood with a hole if it rains?
Maybe in Heaven or in the Circle tower would've been good places for her to wear the hood. I like her with or without the hood anyway.
Yeah, but it's bad manners to wear any head covering indoors. Maybe if she turned her top upside down and wore it backwards then the hole would be in the right spot.:innocent:
