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THE Morrigan Discussion and Research Thread *Infested with Bugs Yet Again!*


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#12051
Brockololly

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Well, tons of DA2 news and previews from today, but take a listen to this interview with Mark Darrah for some Warden/DA3 news....sort of.

Darrah makes mention of again how DA isn't the story of one character but at the same time makes mention of how they could bring the Warden back :) or Hawke :(

And he confirms we have some choice as Hawke to tip the scale between 2 major factions at the end of the game... (Flemmy versus Chantry?) and he goes on to pretty much confirm DA3 by saying Cassandra plays a larger role in DA3.

And in Morrigan related news, RPG France asked Gaider about Morrigan in DA2 and you'll be SHOCKED at the answer- ok, not really:

About Morrigan, we know that is not finished with it. Will it have a role in this story?  Is it a secret?
This is not really a secret, in fact, Morrigan is part of the world of Dragon Age and have an important role in the  future, but not in this story.


Modifié par Brockololly, 21 décembre 2010 - 05:32 .


#12052
Lord_Anthonior

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12!!!!??? that's gonna be very interesting to see the paths. I did liked the mention that maybe the Warden may appear again and also it sounded very "in fact" of DA3.

It's great how Morrigan is a very important character in the future of Dragon age, and having a romance or liking her from the begining makes the game even more appealing or the story more compelling to follow for the attachment to her and the role she'll play.

And new Morrigan's pic from DA:

Posted Image
Artist: devilmaru

Modifié par Lord_Anthonior, 21 décembre 2010 - 08:15 .


#12053
LTS_Guitarian

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I'm not really surprised. There too much money to be made by bringing her back. And when it boils down to it, that's what Bioware is trying to do, make more money. That's not a bad thing, if they didn't they would go out of business.



She may not be important to the plot in the future, but that really doesn't matter. As long as she's back for more than 2 minutes.

#12054
Jarlof Seoul

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Brockololly wrote...

Well, tons of DA2 news and previews from today, but take a listen to this interview with Mark Darrah for some Warden/DA3 news....sort of.

Darrah makes mention of again how DA isn't the story of one character but at the same time makes mention of how they could bring the Warden back :) or Hawke :(

And he confirms we have some choice as Hawke to tip the scale between 2 major factions at the end of the game... (Flemmy versus Chantry?) and he goes on to pretty much confirm DA3 by saying Cassandra plays a larger role in DA3.

And in Morrigan related news, RPG France asked Gaider about Morrigan in DA2 and you'll be SHOCKED at the answer- ok, not really:

About Morrigan, we know that is not finished with it. Will it have a role in this story?  Is it a secret?


This is not really a secret, in fact, Morrigan is part of the world of Dragon Age and have an important role in the  future, but not in this story.


Woooohooo! More Morri! YYYYEAAHHH!!![smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Jarlof Seoul, 21 décembre 2010 - 10:35 .


#12055
Jarlof Seoul

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Lord_Anthonior wrote...

12!!!!??? that's gonna be very interesting to see the paths. I did liked the mention that maybe the Warden may appear again and also it sounded very "in fact" of DA3.

It's great how Morrigan is a very important character in the future of Dragon age, and having a romance or liking her from the begining makes the game even more appealing or the story more compelling to follow for the attachment to her and the role she'll play.

And new Morrigan's pic from DA:

Posted Image
Artist: devilmaru


Very nice. Morri artists becoming better by the day! Love this forum. DA blows away the competition. Best in my 20 years of gaming.

#12056
Dave of Canada

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I'll probably be shot for this but what kind of consequences do you want to see happen for the God Baby? I would've started a thread of my own but I didn't wish to clutter these boards and this is probably the most relevant thread. *cowers*

#12057
LTS_Guitarian

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Dave of Canada wrote...

I'll probably be shot for this but what kind of consequences do you want to see happen for the God Baby? I would've started a thread of my own but I didn't wish to clutter these boards and this is probably the most relevant thread. *cowers*


Honestly, I don't see any.  People make a big deal over the god-child, but technically it doesn't even exist.  The game never states the soul of the god inhabits the child, it's just an assumption many of us (myself, included) have made.  The only thing that's explicitly stated is that the archdemon is drawn to the child and destroyed.  Morrigan says the child can withstand it, but she never says the baby will have the soul of a god.  At least none that I can recall.  Although I'll probably have a bunch of people jumping on me about this.

#12058
ximena

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LTS_Guitarian wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'll probably be shot for this but what kind of consequences do you want to see happen for the God Baby? I would've started a thread of my own but I didn't wish to clutter these boards and this is probably the most relevant thread. *cowers*


Honestly, I don't see any.  People make a big deal over the god-child, but technically it doesn't even exist.  The game never states the soul of the god inhabits the child, it's just an assumption many of us (myself, included) have made.  The only thing that's explicitly stated is that the archdemon is drawn to the child and destroyed.  Morrigan says the child can withstand it, but she never says the baby will have the soul of a god.  At least none that I can recall.  Although I'll probably have a bunch of people jumping on me about this.


The way I understand it, the child's real soul is destroyed when the archdemon's soul enters the underdeveloped baby. What then happens is that somehow the old god's soul is cleansed, and the essence is preserved in the body. Though I'm grasping for air when I try to think of what effects having the essence of the old god in a human body would mean.

I can't think of any consequence for the God Baby's life right now. I'm more interested on how BioWare handles the baby/old god baby thing since there are playthroughs which does not result to Morrigan have a normal child/old god kid.

EDIT: I forgot to say you won't be shot here, Dave. Hahaha. But you'll probably have to read a very, very long and epic reply somewhere down the line. XD

Modifié par ximena, 21 décembre 2010 - 12:03 .


#12059
LTS_Guitarian

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ximena wrote...

The way I understand it, the child's real soul is destroyed when the archdemon's soul enters the underdeveloped baby. What then happens is that somehow the old god's soul is cleansed, and the essence is preserved in the body. Though I'm grasping for air when I try to think of what effects having the essence of the old god in a human body would mean.

I can't think of any consequence for the God Baby's life right now. I'm more interested on how BioWare handles the baby/old god baby thing since there are playthroughs which does not result to Morrigan have a normal child/old god kid.

EDIT: I forgot to say you won't be shot here, Dave. Hahaha. But you'll probably have to read a very, very long and epic reply somewhere down the line. XD


See, that's what I thought for the most part too, until I went back and played the DR and paid attention more.  I never thought the child's soul was destroyed, but almost like they occupied the same space.  But after playing the DR again, I never heard Morrigan mention anything about it.  Unless it's stated elswhere.  All I heard her say was that the archdemon is drawn to the child because of the Taint, just like it would be drawn to a Grey Warden, and destroyed.  She specifically says "destroyed".  So that kind of makes me wonder a bit....

#12060
Master Shiori

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Brockololly wrote...

Well, tons of DA2 news and previews from today, but take a listen to this interview with Mark Darrah for some Warden/DA3 news....sort of.

Darrah makes mention of again how DA isn't the story of one character but at the same time makes mention of how they could bring the Warden back :) or Hawke :(

And he confirms we have some choice as Hawke to tip the scale between 2 major factions at the end of the game... (Flemmy versus Chantry?) and he goes on to pretty much confirm DA3 by saying Cassandra plays a larger role in DA3.

And in Morrigan related news, RPG France asked Gaider about Morrigan in DA2 and you'll be SHOCKED at the answer- ok, not really:

About Morrigan, we know that is not finished with it. Will it have a role in this story?  Is it a secret?
This is not really a secret, in fact, Morrigan is part of the world of Dragon Age and have an important role in the  future, but not in this story.


First off, I have to say that interviewer sounded as if he underwent a rite of tranquility. :huh:

Darrah pretty much repeated what we've been hearing for the last few months; that Dragon Age is about Thedas and that we may or may not see the Warden or Hawke again.
The fact that there are 12 (?!) different endings in DA2 makes me believe that our chances of seeing Hawke again are slim at best. Even if they don't kill him/her off in any of those endings, the world state should be so different that it's practicaly impossible to have him/her return in a way that works for everyone.

The Morrigan part is what we knew already thanks to Mike Laidlaw, but it's nice to see David finally come out and admit that there is DA3, when everyone and their grandmother knew that to be a fact.

Personally, I can't see them bringing back the Warden wothout either making it optional (which can't happen when you have VO) or dropping the whole "no canon" thing and negating the US ending.

#12061
Brockololly

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LTS_Guitarian wrote...

I'm not really surprised. There  too much money to be made by bringing her back. And when it boils down  to it, that's what Bioware is trying to do, make more money. That's not a bad thing, if they didn't they would go out of business.

She  may not be important to the plot in the future, but that really doesn't  matter. As long as she's back for more than 2 minutes.


Yeah, with Witch Hunt I think BioWare knows that people want resolution to Morrigan's story and her plans. Question is whether they actually ever provide it or if they simply keep trying ti milk it for as long as possible. I think Witch Hunt already pissed people off in not actually doing much with Morrigan's story so I'd hope when she returns its more than a 5 minute cameo.

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'll probably be shot for this but what kind of consequences do you want to see happen for the God Baby? I would've started a thread of my own but I didn't wish to clutter these  boards and this is probably the most relevant thread. *cowers*


Depends on what it is Morrigan has planned, what Flemeth is up to and what this big "change" is. At the very least I hope DA2 provides some sort of clear foundation where by the end we can maybe see some the pieces coming together with Flemeth/Morrigan/OGB and whatever else. As for the OGB in particular, I think consequences for it depends on what sort of role it plays in the story. Morrigan says in Witch Hunt that its a herald for the change to come- does that somehow tie in to the Chantry's collapse in DA2? I think it depends on how much resources BioWare is willing to allocate to something, which unless the work around the "no canon" approach, might not be there in people's game. 

That said, since you've got the possibility for either the OGB or just a regular baby with Morrigan, I could see it where maybe by default Morrigan has a normal child too and for the OGB, simply have the normal child trained as a regular mage maybe whileyou simply add more dialogue and stuff for an OGB- so its kind of 2 versions of the same character.

As far as consequences go, if you did the DR I'd like to see the OGB play a major role in whatever it is to come. If they simply marginalize it as some minor thing, that would very much irk me considering BioWare is trying to say your choices matter and all that. I'd guess alot depends on when in the future DA3 takes place too- is the OGB still an adolescent or a kid or has time passed and he's an adult now?  Hard to know what kind of consequences without knowing how much of a role BioWare has in store.

But, if say the OGB is a teenager or something in DA3, I always thought it would be neat if, given the Chantry's collapse, maybe the OGB comes on the scene and starts going around all prophet/Jesus like, performing miracles and the like. Then you've got some people truly believing he's Urthemiel reborn while the maker has abandoned them, while you've got other people thinking he's just a loony mage with delusions of grandeur. Basically have it set up in such a way that its maybe not entirely clear to the player- is he really Divine or is that just what people want to think?

But, even with the no-canon approach, considering how BioWare is handling Bethany/Carver does give me hope taht maybe they're not quite so averse to branching storylines, as even there you've got a situation where from the get go they're blocking off content that would be impossible to see in one playthrough. ALthough who knows how significant that actually is.

Master Shiori wrote...
The fact that there are 12 (?!) different endings in DA2 makes me believe that our chances of seeing Hawke again are slim at best. Even if they don't kill him/her off in any of those endings, the world state should be so different that it's practicaly impossible to have him/her return in a way that works for everyone.

I don't know about that- the fact that Darrah mentioned 6 "endings" and then quickly doubled that to 12, plus the whole having to decide between 2 factions, makes it seem like maybe you have a couple major variables that can be twisted several different ways, not unlike Origins. The 12 different endings is likely something like Origins where maybe the ruler of Ferelden, the Dark Ritual and who killed the AD are your big choices which can technically end in a bunch of variations. Kind of like how they could say there are dozens of endings in Origins, even though you can boil them down pretty easily.

Master Shiori wrote...
Personally, I can't see them bringing back the Warden wothout either making it optional (which can't happen when you have VO) or dropping the whole "no canon" thing and negating the US ending.

Well, I don't know- certainly I'm not optimistic but even with the whole "every story is about Thedas" approach, depending on what the "change" is and how things are set up for Morrigan's return in the future, I could see the Grey Wardens showing up again. So I could imagine a scenario where maybe the PC of some future game is a Warden- maybe they give you the choice in whether thats the Hero of Ferelden or the Orlesian or some new one.

Modifié par Brockololly, 21 décembre 2010 - 03:29 .


#12062
Master Shiori

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Brockololly wrote...

LTS_Guitarian wrote...

I'm not really surprised. There  too much money to be made by bringing her back. And when it boils down  to it, that's what Bioware is trying to do, make more money. That's not a bad thing, if they didn't they would go out of business.

She  may not be important to the plot in the future, but that really doesn't  matter. As long as she's back for more than 2 minutes.


Yeah, with Witch Hunt I think BioWare knows that people want resolution to Morrigan's story and her plans. Question is whether they actually ever provide it or if they simply keep trying ti milk it for as long as possible. I think Witch Hunt already pissed people off in not actually doing much with Morrigan's story so I'd hope when she returns its more than a 5 minute cameo.


I don't think they'll keep milking Morrigan's story as long as possible, since that would eventually kill the interest in her. It would be a lot better to simply finish her story (or current story if you will) in DA3 and then, provided you didn't kill her off and the fans clamour for more, have her appear again in future games as part of a whole new story.


Brockololly wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
The fact that there are 12 (?!) different endings in DA2 makes me believe that our chances of seeing Hawke again are slim at best. Even if they don't kill him/her off in any of those endings, the world state should be so different that it's practicaly impossible to have him/her return in a way that works for everyone.


I don't know about that- the fact that Darrah mentioned 6 "endings" and then quickly doubled that to 12, plus the whole having to decide between 2 factions, makes it seem like maybe you have a couple major variables that can be twisted several different ways, not unlike Origins. The 12 different endings is likely something like Origins where maybe the ruler of Ferelden, the Dark Ritual and who killed the AD are your big choices which can technically end in a bunch of variations. Kind of like how they could say there are dozens of endings in Origins, even though you can boil them down pretty easily.


Maybe. We won't know for sure until we see the endings in question. But if Origins is anything to go by, they could range from one extreme to another. I don't mind there being many possible enings as long as they allow Bioware to easily pick up Hawke's story again in the future and not result in another Warden where some endings have him/her die, some make him prince consort/queen or others have him remain a Grey Warden.

I think ME did it better by allowing you different choices but the despite your decision every Shepard ended up in a same spot. That way the transition from one game to another is much simpler and more smooth.


Brockololly wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
Personally, I can't see them bringing back the Warden wothout either making it optional (which can't happen when you have VO) or dropping the whole "no canon" thing and negating the US ending.


Well, I don't know- certainly I'm not optimistic but even with the whole "every story is about Thedas" approach, depending on what the "change" is and how things are set up for Morrigan's return in the future, I could see the Grey Wardens showing up again. So I could imagine a scenario where maybe the PC of some future game is a Warden- maybe they give you the choice in whether thats the Hero of Ferelden or the Orlesian or some new one.


The problem with that, Brock, is that the character in question isn't just some support npc like Bethany or Carver, but the protagonist himself. That's the guy for whom you'll need to record the most VO material and you can't just have it become optional.

The solution would be to have both DA:O Warden and the new protagonist voiced by the same voice actor (unlikely, since David Gaider said they're not in favor of the same actor voicing 2 major characters. Example: Anora and Isabela). Otherwise youend up with a whole bunch of expensive material not being used, which is a no go.

If they do decide to bring the Warden back, chances are the US Wardens get a ressurection. It's by far the easiest way to handle this, provided you can come up with a decent ingame explanation for it.

#12063
Brockololly

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Master Shiori wrote...
The problem with that, Brock, is that the character in question isn't just some support npc like Bethany or Carver, but the protagonist himself. That's the guy for whom you'll need to record the most VO material and you can't just have it become optional.


The true solution is to not waste time and resources on the voiced PC!  Truly, I know DA2 is its own game, but I don't think people realize how much you miss out by having the voiced PC in terms of what else those resources could have been allocated towards. Terra has said it before, but when DA2 clocks in at under or around 30 hours....meh. BioWare will do what they're going to do but I just think that their whole notion of a "no canon" universe is in direct conflict with having meaningful consequences and choices if they keep propping up the whole cinematic voiced PC approach. I'm not necessarily opposed to it, I just think you'll end up with a much more linear experience as a result.


Master Shiori wrote...
The solution would be to have both DA:O Warden and the new protagonist voiced by the same voice actor (unlikely, since David Gaider said they're not in favor of the same actor voicing 2 major characters. Example: Anora and Isabela). Otherwise youend up with a whole bunch of expensive material not being used, which is a no go.

Well, again, if they were to bring the Warden back as the PC, either they'd not voice him/her or they maybe voice him/her but do it in a multiple PC type approach to the game such that you're not the Warden the whole time.

But really, giving a voice to the Warden would be like giving a voice to Samus....oh wait, Nintendo did that- how'd that go over? Yeah. Or giving a voice to Gordon Freeman- you just don't do that. Seriously, the whole VO everything drive maybe makes games more fun to watch, but from a RP perspective kills it for me.

#12064
blademaster7

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And Gamespot's worst DLC for a good game is...

http://www.gamespot....dex.html?page=6

Agree or disagree?

Modifié par blademaster7, 21 décembre 2010 - 08:16 .


#12065
LTS_Guitarian

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I think we touched on this already a few pages back. Might have been another from gamer site, tough. Either way, I most definitely agree.


#12066
Brockololly

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blademaster7 wrote...

And Gamespot's worst DLC for a good game is...

http://www.gamespot....dex.html?page=6

Agree or disagree?


I'd agree pretty much. I personally really liked it as opposed to the ending we got with Morrigan in Origins. But as an ending to Origins overall and with how it was marketed and presented as finally giving answers to Morrigan's story? It doesn't live up to its potential. And I think thats the problem- people wanted to see more out of what could be the last time the Warden/Morrigan interact and instead you have a 50 minute DLC that has maybe 5 minutes of Morrigan pulling her best Flemeth impression going all wishy washy with vague prophecies and non-comittal mystery speak.

I'll maintain that the events of Witch Hunt should have just been put into an expansion pack. ANd thats the problem with most of Origins' DLC- in Origins the quests are nice, long quest arcs that last for hours. SO when you try to compartmentalize that experience into a 1 hour stand alone DLC, it just ends up feeling very short, rushed and incomplete, even if the overarching premise of the DLC is a good one.

#12067
LTS_Guitarian

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Brockololly wrote...

I'd agree pretty much. I personally really liked it as opposed to the ending we got with Morrigan in Origins. But as an ending to Origins overall and with how it was marketed and presented as finally giving answers to Morrigan's story? It doesn't live up to its potential. And I think thats the problem- people wanted to see more out of what could be the last time the Warden/Morrigan interact and instead you have a 50 minute DLC that has maybe 5 minutes of Morrigan pulling her best Flemeth impression going all wishy washy with vague prophecies and non-comittal mystery speak.

I'll maintain that the events of Witch Hunt should have just been put into an expansion pack. ANd thats the problem with most of Origins' DLC- in Origins the quests are nice, long quest arcs that last for hours. SO when you try to compartmentalize that experience into a 1 hour stand alone DLC, it just ends up feeling very short, rushed and incomplete, even if the overarching premise of the DLC is a good one.


That's where it fails...It got hyped to high heaven and delivered on none of the promises.  We weren't given any answers, just more questions.  Yes, we got to see the Warden go through the mirror with Morrigan (if you so chose) which lessened the sting of Origins somewhat.  But we were led to believe this would be the be-all-end-all of the Morrigan arc, and it wasn't.  Not even close.  It was basically an add for DA2 that you paid for.

It did nothing to spur my interest in a sequel.  If anything, it only made me want to strangle Gaider even more...
STOP TOYING WITH ME!!!!

#12068
KnightofPhoenix

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As I expressed earlier "worst" might be too strong a word. "Most disappointing" sounds more accurate to me.

#12069
Master Shiori

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blademaster7 wrote...

And Gamespot's worst DLC for a good game is...

http://www.gamespot....dex.html?page=6

Agree or disagree?


Can't agree for reason I listed a few pages back, but I understand why people might feel that way.

#12070
Brockololly

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LTS_Guitarian wrote...
 It was basically an add for DA2 that you paid for.

Not even DA2 since Morrigan won't be there, but likely DA3....

LTS_Guitarian wrote...
It did nothing to spur my interest in a sequel.  If anything, it only made me want to strangle Gaider even more...
STOP TOYING WITH ME!!!!


Right- thats the thing really. I know BioWare wants to not spill all the secrets to Thedas and keep some things mysterious- thats fine. I thought how they dealt with the Sacred Ashes was nice- is it Divine or is it just souped up lyrium? And then its left to the player to decide. But with Morrigan and Witch Hunt and everything surrounding her, Flemeth and the OGB, we have NO clue whats brewing. And the manner in which Morrigan obstinantly refuses to say anything on that ends up seeming not like Morrigan conversing with the Warden (especially a Warden about to go into the Eluvian) but rather, its Gaider wagging his finger at the player saying yuo can't get any answers untl DA: Future game. That sort of cliffhanger might work once to keep people intrigued but I think simply judging by the negative reaction to WH, a good deal of people are fed up with that sort of tease. To the extent I think people will be hesitant to spend money on DA2 DLC based on how poorly the Origins stuff was in terms of meeting expectations.

#12071
Zjarcal

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

As I expressed earlier "worst" might be too strong a word. "Most disappointing" sounds more accurate to me.


Agreed. What's worse, by giving Witch Hunt the "worst" award, they are implying that it was worse than DSC or GoA, which, no matter how disappointed you were by WH, seems too much of a stretch.

#12072
Master Shiori

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Zjarcal wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

As I expressed earlier "worst" might be too strong a word. "Most disappointing" sounds more accurate to me.


Agreed. What's worse, by giving Witch Hunt the "worst" award, they are implying that it was worse than DSC or GoA, which, no matter how disappointed you were by WH, seems too much of a stretch.


True that.

Witch Hunt wasn't bad at all. In fact I'd say it was one of the better DLC's for DA:O; together with Shale, Leliana's Song, Warden's Keep and Ostagar.

The problem was that marketing created huge expectations that the DLC couldn't meet (and likely wasn't ment to meet from the start).

As far as locales, characters and story are concerned I found them to be good, though I can understand that people may have wanted to interact with Morrigan right from the start, like you could with Liara in LotSB.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 21 décembre 2010 - 11:46 .


#12073
Brockololly

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Master Shiori wrote...
The problem was that marketing created huge expectations that the DLC couldn't meet (and likely wasn't ment to meet from the start).

As far as locales, characters and story are concerned I found them to be good, though I can understand that people may have wanted to interact with Morrigan right from the start, like you could with Liara in LotSB.


Yeah thats very true.

I think the issue was that Morrigan's story deserves more than a tiny DLC to give Origins some closure. Its the whole thing how when you stepped into the Eluvian, people expected to keep playing, but nope its over.

I'd say it was definitely better than all the prior DLC outside of Shale, it just definitely felt like it was done on a smaller budget- what with bringing Morrigan back to Ferelden as opposed to how Origins left things with all signs pointing to Orlais.

#12074
MKDAWUSS

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Brockololly wrote...

And he confirms we have some choice as Hawke to tip
the scale between 2 major factions at the end of the game... (Flemmy
versus Chantry?) and he goes on to pretty much confirm DA3 by saying
Cassandra plays a larger role in DA3.


I'll be interested in seeing how this plays out, as being able to tip the scales is a major choice that's going to lead to major consequences. I'm not exactly sure how they would be able to accomodate both choices very well in a future installment, unless they decide to have both factions in a Chantry schism coexist at the end no matter what happens. Though that does lead to the question of how that's going to be played out, since that's going to involve some significant amount of branching away from the storylines.

As for the OGB, I think it's going to be a choose-your-punchline in a future DA installment. From what I understand, Morrigan has a child regardless (no DR, no WGW = Orlesian father).

#12075
LTS_Guitarian

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Yeah, but all that stuff has to do with DA2, and who cares about DA2?
I don't :P

Edit: That came out a lot meaner sounding that I intended.  I was just being a smartass, as usual so don't read anything into it.

Modifié par LTS_Guitarian, 22 décembre 2010 - 12:20 .