16183 réponses à ce sujet

[ximena]

*snickers*



This just made my day/night.







Another one by Sonia



Yes that's Edric. XDDD

[Lord_Anthonior]

ximena wrote...

*snickers*

This just made my day/night.



Another one by Sonia

Yes that's Edric. XDDD

how do you get out of that one?!?! one for the mistake and the other for the nickname!....

[revan11exile]

Jarlof Seoul wrote...

revan11exile wrote...

Say guys i am about to go for another run at Witch Hunt with my Mage Static Amell who romanced Morrigan but i wanted to try something different this time.I will not go through the Portal with her the but the main thing i wanted to ask you'll is,is my Warden a dead-beat dad if i dont go with her to see and possible live with my son and is it possible since our Mage Wardens are related to Hawke will he/she make an appearance if i chose not to go through the portal with her?

People who go through the portal should be rewarded. People who don't should not expect much.

I think both should be rewarded but if i do not go with her i hope that one day my Warden will see her again:crying: oh and see his son:crying:

[Brockololly]

revan11exile wrote...

Say guys i am about to go for another run at Witch Hunt with my Mage Static Amell who romanced Morrigan but i wanted to try something different this time.I will not go through the Portal with her the but the main thing i wanted to ask you'll is,is my Warden a dead-beat dad if i dont go with her to see and possible live with my son and is it possible since our Mage Wardens are related to Hawke will he/she make an appearance if i chose not to go through the portal with her?

Hmmm....my Wardens that romance her all go through the ELuvian with her. One, I'd say you got the romance angle. Two, they don't want to be a deadbeat dad and want to be involved with the OGB's upbringing. And three, they want to be involved with whatever it is Morrigan is up to- basically, have them be able to possibly sway or influence what Morrigan is doing and not just let her do things all on her own- to basically be an advisor sort possibly or to even stop her if her plan is too radical.

Dave of Canada wrote...

My die-hard Warden character  stabbed Morrigan instead of letting her go peacefully, it felt like a  rash decision at the end where Morrigan is all going "BYE BYE I'M  LEAVING NOW" and (in my mind) he regrets it.

Though to be honest, I only did it because I'd like it if she showed up with a scar or  something to at least show that you did Witch Hunt. Just letting her  go... feels anticlimatic.

Heh- I have my absolute a-hole Orlesian that stabbed Morrigan and thats it. I'll be curious how that plays out down the road.

The only interesting thing letting her go is the gift she gives. And actually, how she does in a small way warn you to not come- how it would be better for both of you if you stayed behind. I almost wonder if that could have something to do with Flemeth or the big "change." Like maybe if you did stay behind, you and the Wardens were able to prevent XYZ from happening or held off something while if you went through the Eluvian XYZ happened but so did ABC. But I doubt we'll get anything that divergent in terms of consequences.

ximena wrote...

*snickers*

This just made my day/night.



Another one by Sonia

Yes that's Edric. XDDD

Hahahaha:lol:
Thats awesome- I love the Bear's expressions

Modifié par Brockololly, 31 décembre 2010 - 02:23 .

[Master Shiori]

ximena wrote...

*snickers*

This just made my day/night.



Another one by Sonia

Yes that's Edric. XDDD

Hahaha!!

Well, at least the bear is happy.

Edric is probably in for major zapping time though.

[LTS_Guitarian]

revan11exile wrote...

Oh and LTS Guitarian great job on the Fan Fics Black Warden is my fav

Thank you very much.  I'm happy you enjoyed it:).  I try..
And Happy New Year to everyone!

[Brockololly]

PureMethodActor wrote...
Other than that, I've seen no reason to stab Morrigan, as she never did anything malicious enough to warrant that, imo.

One thing that always bugged me with Witch Hunt was how at the beginning Morrigan is super cautious of the Warden saying "not one step closer" or she'll go through. And yet at the end, she lets the Warden, even if he has been threatening her, get right up close and she even asks permission if she can leave. Really? That sort of makes sense if the Warden is friendly or she trusts the Warden (which would make getting stabbed even more of a betrayal) but for Little Miss Survival at all Costs to let someone she may know is hostile to her get that close and then ask permission to go?


Edit: Random Witch Hunt thought: Its probably been brought up before, but I can't remember: Does Morrigan's dialogue change in Witch Hunt at all if you did not kill Flemeth? Or how does WH change if you let Flemeth go? Does Morrigan simply not make the comment of Flemeth cheating death?

Modifié par Brockololly, 01 janvier 2011 - 06:44 .

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Edit: Random Witch Hunt thought: Its probably been brought up before, but I can't remember: Does Morrigan's dialogue change in Witch Hunt at all if you did not kill Flemeth? Or how does WH change if you let Flemeth go? Does Morrigan simply not make the comment of Flemeth cheating death?

Not sure, since I always kill Flemeth (I mean, how can you resist killing a damn dragon?!).

If I remember correctly, you don't have the option of telling Morrigan that you spared Flemeth, not unless you're using Terra's Morrigan Restoration patch. Even then it's unlikely that Witch Hunt would recognize it since that option was cut out of the Origins.

[gurp123]

Master Shiori wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Which is the problem with Origins if you have your Warden at all interested in Morrigan- sure the story is about the Blight. But they started  A WHOLE NEW STORY AT THE END OF THE GAME. The whole OGB thing surely doesn't have to happen in everyone's game, but the very notion that Morrigan knows this sort of freaky ritual and has some super secret plan involving it is sprung on you at the last minute in the game and as the player you're strung along with that through Origins and then Witch Hunt with no resolution? Bah. Sure its a new story, but thats the problem- they started a new story, not just a plot thread, at the end of the game and its not clear that they'll ever resolve it in a meaningful way.

They clearly said that story isn't over, so yes, they'll resolve it for Morrigan. Whether not the Warden will ltake part in it is anyone's guess. Gaider said they haven't decided on that yet, so I guess anything is possible at this point.

Brockololly wrote...

We don't know that- yeah, we know right now that Morrigan's story is not over. But whats the point of WH and the end of Origins if the Warden cannot be involved either based on the choices afforded the player? Is it really only Morrigan's story when the Warden can go into the Eluvian right alongside her and possibly be the father to the OGB? Nevermind Morrigan telling the Warden to have all Wardens ready for the change to come? Fact is that we have no clue if the Wardens are integral to Morrigan's story or not at this juncture. For all we know, the rest of Morrigan's story is simply fast forwarding 20 years to have Morrigan in a cutscene only to get crushed by a giant rock. 

Its easy to brew worst case scenarios as I'm not fond of the direction DA seems to be headed, and as much as I trust the writers, they get their direction from Laidlaw and Darrah, who while they may be fantastic human beings, I'm not buying into where they're taking DA.

It's not like DA would be the first series to have a new protagonist with each new game. Will such an approach work? Maybe. Time will tell, since it's too early to say right now.

Witch Hunt is more a closure to MorriganxWarden relationship then a hint of a new adventure for them. Sure, she warns the Wardens to be ready for what is to come, but that doesn't mean we will play as a Warden (any Warden) in DA3. Hell, we might get a non-Warden protagonist ala Hawke or even a brand new Warden character.
And yes, the story is only Morrigan's. Why? Because if you take Morrigan out of it the story can't stand on it's own. But take the Warden out and you still have a story left to tell. You simply need a different protagonist. Same as in Origins.
Could DA:O work without Morrigan? Sure, you simply lose 1 possible ending (DR).
Could it work without the Warden? Not really, unless you're buying the whole "Alistair unites Ferelden against the Blight" nonsense from DSC...

Brockololly wrote...

Sure, and without the Warden who has been heavily involved in Morrigan's story there at the conclusion, whats the point? Might as well read a history book or the cliffnotes if they're so intent on sucking out any emotional engagement.

Except that emotional engagement was created by the writers theselves, not by Warden or Morrigan. Who's to say they cannot make equally emotionaly engaging story with just Morrigan? For those of us who played DA:O and romanced Morri there will always be some kind of engagement to her character, whether or not the Warden takes part. A new PC may not care about her right from the start, but it's YOU who are giving that new PC his personality and controlling his actions. You get to decide what he cares about.
As long as the PC gets to have a say in what happens to Morrigan and as long as her history with the Warden is acknowledged you get your emotional engagement.

Aside from my fascination with Morrigan I still have to side with Brock on this one. I'll actually argue that you can't take Morrigan out of DAO because clearly she and Flemeth have been set up as central figures to the milieu. Well, I lie. Yes, you could remove her and still have a story -- it's fantasy you can do anything and still have a story -- but to do so would send huge ripples through the rest of the storyline. I submit that Morrigan's redemption is a key element to the DAO universe and removing her breaks it. And, since the warden began that redemption, either as a friend or a lover or even as a vengeance seeker at the end of WH, then the warden and Morrigan have unfinished business. This whole concept of what will Morrigan do in the future and what can I do to guide her decisions along with some shrew taming is what makes her so much more fascinating to me than the other NPC's and, perhaps falsely, hopeful that the two will return.

Now, could I envision a scenario where Morrigan returns without the warden only to interact with another PC? Sure. As Brock and others have stated she could simply return all Flemethy, giving cryptic answers and playing a morally ambiguous role, and it would probably still be entertaining, not engrossing, but entertaining. She could be a relatively shallow NPC interacting with an OGB central character. She could come back already redeemed, but how boring would that be? She could even come back to be romanced and saved by another PC as you suggest. However, it was the warden who helped start her down her path and so would have unique influence on her. Without the warden that conclusion would be lacking. Of course the warden could simply be discarded as her first love/friend and be replaced by someone new, but I think I would find such sloppy seconds to be weak soup indeed.

Here's some more food for thought, and I'm sure I'm not the first to suggest it. Even though Flemeth has nominally been set up as bad and Morrigan good, I can easily see all sorts of interesting plot lines where neither end up being truly bad, e.g. Flemeth created the ritual as simply a way to reclaim the old gods, and the fear of possession was simply a prod to get Morrigan out into the world. Flemeth simply wants to return to the old ways and Morrigan wants to usher in a new world. I can see such plot lines working regardless of the outcome of DAO but still mindful of the choices made. No ritual, no OGB. Morrigan and the the warden must make do with another source of power, which is conveniently always available in a fantasy setting. Romance/Befriend Morrigan and get her to relinquish her power, or claim it from her, or kill both Flemeth and Morrigan, or share it with her... So many possibilities...

Regardless, I see the warden playing a role in Morrigan's fate simply because s/he started it, and I've already explained why I believe Morrigan is essential. So that is why I want to see both return whether or not BW is my b*tch.  

Happy New Year, everyone. Ugh, only 2 more days off.

[blademaster7]

Brockololly wrote...

Edit: Random Witch Hunt thought: Its probably been brought up before, but I can't remember: Does Morrigan's dialogue change in Witch Hunt at all if you did not kill Flemeth? Or how does WH change if you let Flemeth go? Does Morrigan simply not make the comment of Flemeth cheating death?

Don't know what Morrigan says but your dialogue with Ariane varies. If you killed her you can point out that she's dead, otherwise you'll say that she saved your life.

Also, there is a codex entry outside the hut which you can get if you fought her.

Master Shiori wrote...

Not sure, since I always kill Flemeth (I mean, how can you resist killing a damn dragon?!).

Even if you're planning on letting her go, you might as well kick her ass and then reload the game. It's just so fun.

You know, after your nth playthrough you'll come up with some amusing ways to kill her. Setting traps or by playing solo and trying to circle around her...

[revan11exile]

revan11exile wrote...

Jarlof Seoul wrote...

revan11exile wrote...

Say guys i am about to go for another run at Witch Hunt with my Mage Static Amell who romanced Morrigan but i wanted to try something different this time.I will not go through the Portal with her the but the main thing i wanted to ask you'll is,is my Warden a dead-beat dad if i dont go with her to see and possible live with my son and is it possible since our Mage Wardens are related to Hawke will he/she make an appearance if i chose not to go through the portal with her?

People who go through the portal should be rewarded. People who don't should not expect much.

I think both should be rewarded but if i do not go with her i hope that one day my Warden will see her again:crying: oh and see his son:crying:

Another thing guys i wanted to ask you all is should those who romanced Morrigan in Witch Hunt and chose not to go with her be rewarded in DA2 or DA3 or not?

[ximena]

Okay. This is a little bit late. But still. XD

[Lord_Anthonior]

It seems to be a good year, even Morrigan is grinning, let's see how the change to the world unfolds...in a few months.



Thanks Xim!

[Master Shiori]

gurp123 wrote...

Aside from my fascination with Morrigan I still have to side with Brock on this one. I'll actually argue that you can't take Morrigan out of DAO because clearly she and Flemeth have been set up as central figures to the milieu. Well, I lie. Yes, you could remove her and still have a story -- it's fantasy you can do anything and still have a story -- but to do so would send huge ripples through the rest of the storyline. I submit that Morrigan's redemption is a key element to the DAO universe and removing her breaks it. And, since the warden began that redemption, either as a friend or a lover or even as a vengeance seeker at the end of WH, then the warden and Morrigan have unfinished business. This whole concept of what will Morrigan do in the future and what can I do to guide her decisions along with some shrew taming is what makes her so much more fascinating to me than the other NPC's and, perhaps falsely, hopeful that the two will return.

If we're looking at Morrigan purely within the context of Origins itself, then yes, you could easily remove her and it would only lock you out of one ending (Dark Ritual). If you look at her potential role within Dragon Age as a whole, then no, you cannot remove her.
As for the future, assuming you import your saves from Origins and DA2, Morrigan will be shapped by what you did there and you will most likely get the chance to shape her further, whether with the Warden or a new PC. Yes, having the Warden interact with Morrigan again would be incredibly rewarding to those of us who love her character, but it would mean nothing to others. Not everyone romanced her or even cares about what happens to her. Bioware needs to make a game that is enjoyable for all, regardless of what they did in Origins, and shoehorning everyone into playing as a Warden again won't achieve that. Sure, you can make playing as the Warden entirely optional, but then you're looking at Awakening 2.0 where there's minimal difference between you Origins Warden and newly created Orlesian.

gurp123 wrote...

Now, could I envision a scenario where Morrigan returns without the warden only to interact with another PC? Sure. As Brock and others have stated she could simply return all Flemethy, giving cryptic answers and playing a morally ambiguous role, and it would probably still be entertaining, not engrossing, but entertaining. She could be a relatively shallow NPC interacting with an OGB central character. She could come back already redeemed, but how boring would that be? She could even come back to be romanced and saved by another PC as you suggest. However, it was the warden who helped start her down her path and so would have unique influence on her. Without the warden that conclusion would be lacking. Of course the warden could simply be discarded as her first love/friend and be replaced by someone new, but I think I would find such sloppy seconds to be weak soup indeed.

Yes, she might be all Flemethy as you said.. at start. But just as in Origins, you'll get to know her better during the course of the game and her attitude will change. And that's asuming you character won't have some knowledge of who Morrigan is and what she's done from the start, which David Gaider said is unlikely to happen. You may not know all the details but you won't be completely in the dark either.
Also, where do you get the idea that I want the new protagonist to romance Morrigan?! You don't need to be her lover in order to be able to influence her. My female Wardens practically had a sisterly relationship with her by the end of DA:O and they could influence her as much as my male Wardens who romanced her could.

gurp123 wrote...

Here's some more food for thought, and I'm sure I'm not the first to suggest it. Even though Flemeth has nominally been set up as bad and Morrigan good, I can easily see all sorts of interesting plot lines where neither end up being truly bad, e.g. Flemeth created the ritual as simply a way to reclaim the old gods, and the fear of possession was simply a prod to get Morrigan out into the world. Flemeth simply wants to return to the old ways and Morrigan wants to usher in a new world. I can see such plot lines working regardless of the outcome of DAO but still mindful of the choices made. No ritual, no OGB. Morrigan and the the warden must make do with another source of power, which is conveniently always available in a fantasy setting. Romance/Befriend Morrigan and get her to relinquish her power, or claim it from her, or kill both Flemeth and Morrigan, or share it with her... So many possibilities...

Regardless, I see the warden playing a role in Morrigan's fate simply because s/he started it, and I've already explained why I believe Morrigan is essential. So that is why I want to see both return whether or not BW is my b*tch.  

Maybe. Hard to say anything when we know precious little about Morrigan's plans or Flemeth's nature, not to mention nothing about the general premise of DA3.
And Warden's influence would play a part even if he's not there physicaly. The influence of a new PC would as well.
Finally, you need to stop looking at this from the perspective of someone who loves the Warden and Morrigan and try and see it as devs themselves do. Morrigan may be popular, but her fans are only a part of a larger DA playerbase. You, as a developer, need to make a product that is not only attractive to all your existing players but can also draw in new ones. Making a game focused on a romance and relationship that half of the players probably don't really care about isn't the way to do it. Not to mention that bringing the Warden as a voice PC is extremely difficult to pull off. You need about 6 different voice actors to voice 3 races and you need 6 different body models to model your gear around. The sheer amount of space the PC's voice files alone would take on the disc is insane. If Bioware can actually pull this off in a reasonable manner then kudos to them, but I'm not holding my breath, especially since there are cheaper and more effective alternatives (read: new PC). Between Warden and Hawke you have more of a chance of seeing the later again, rather then the former.
And whoever the PC in DA3 will be, I can guarantee his/her impact on Morrigan's story will be the same.

[Master Shiori]

ximena wrote...

Okay. This is a little bit late. But still. XD

Nice one Ximena.

Happy New Year to you all once again!!

[Brockololly]

[quote]gurp123 wrote...
I submit that Morrigan's redemption is a key element to the DAO universe and removing her breaks it. And, since the warden began that redemption, either as a friend or a lover or even as a vengeance seeker at the end of WH, then the warden and Morrigan have unfinished business. This whole concept of what will Morrigan do in the future and what can I do to guide her decisions along with some shrew taming is what makes her so much more fascinating to me than the other NPC's and, perhaps falsely, hopeful that the two will return. [/quote]

I'd agree there mostly, with the proviso that it may not be necessary to "redeem" Morrigan. Certainly having a romance with her with your Warden changes her but does it just change her personality towards the Warden as an individual or towards others as well? She still has the whole survival of the fittest mentality and all that going on with her "plan," so at least as Origins goes, I think the only change in her is that she allows the Warden in a little bit. 

Yet, how that affects her broader view of things is where I think its interesting for the future- does the Warden get "corrupted" by Morrigan's view on things or does Morrigan soften her outlook on the world based on her time with the Warden? I think thats the crux of the matter really- tossing out the Warden as a PC at this juncture in Morrigan's story is really weak storytelling. Presumably the big moments in her story are yet to come and since they've allowed the player that choice to go with her, they need to respect that going forward and not just reduce the Warden to some shadowy cameo or codex entry.

[quote]gurp123 wrote...
However, it was the warden who helped start her down her path and so would have unique influence on her. Without the warden that conclusion would be lacking. [/quote]
Right- regardless of whether you're talking about romance, friendship or shanking Morrigan in WH, the Warden has some large role to play in Morrigan's story. The very fact that the First Warden sent the Warden to look for Morrigan is telling. And IMO, if they want the conclusion/climax of Morrigan's story to hold any weight, it has to be the Warden thats dealing with her and dealing with the consequences of their actions involving Morrigan. SImply shifting those consequences to somebody else is more often than not incredibly unsatisfying.

[quote]gurp123 wrote...
Of course the warden could simply be discarded as her first love/friend and be replaced by someone new, but I think I would find such sloppy seconds to be weak soup indeed. [/quote]
Ugh. At that juncture I'd just be done with BioWare and send my copy of that DA game back to Edmonton.

[quote]gurp123 wrote...
Here's some more food for thought, and I'm sure I'm not the first to suggest it. Even though Flemeth has nominally been set up as bad and Morrigan good, I can easily see all sorts of interesting plot lines where neither end up being truly bad, e.g. Flemeth created the ritual as simply a way to reclaim the old gods, and the fear of possession was simply a prod to get Morrigan out into the world. Flemeth simply wants to return to the old ways and Morrigan wants to usher in a new world. I can see such plot lines working regardless of the outcome of DAO but still mindful of the choices made. No ritual, no OGB. Morrigan and the the warden must make do with another source of power, which is conveniently always available in a fantasy setting. Romance/Befriend Morrigan and get her to relinquish her power, or claim it from her, or kill both Flemeth and Morrigan, or share it with her... So many possibilities... [/quote]
Definitely- thats the thing with Morrigan: people might want to say she's "evil" but she isn't. I'm sure whatever her or Flemeth's plan is, isn't some black and white moral choice- its likely something which could be construed as "evil" from one person's POV and a welcome change to another. The point I have in making my Warden's follow her through the ELuvian is that way, they can continue influencing Morrigan in some fashion and not be left out of the loop when her plan comes to fruition. Just as Morrigan was sort of the devil whispering into the Warden's ear at times in Origins, the Warden could easily have that same sort of influential role for whatever it is Morrigan and the OGB may be up to.

[quote]revan11exile wrote...
Another thing guys i wanted to ask you all is should those who romanced  Morrigan in Witch Hunt and chose not to go with her be rewarded in DA2  or DA3 or not?
[/quote]
Well, I'm wondering how the flags would account for that down the road. Seeing as DA2 ditches Origins' approval system and Witch Hunt accounted for the romance via other flags, the primary flag you'd think in Witch Hunt to signal the Morrigan romance would be the Eluvian one, seeing as only those who romanced Morrigan can trigger that flag. As for a reward- I'd hope that sort of scenario would be accounted for in any future game. My concern is that even in DA2, the import process will be botched, maybe messing up Origins flags but yet you don't necessarily know they're messed up until years down the road when you try and import that into DA3.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...

If you look at her potential role within Dragon Age as a  whole, then no, you cannot remove her. [/quote]

Maybe, maybe not. For all of the devs posturing that Morrigan's story is not over, for all we know that simply means she takes on some Duncan like role in the beginning of DA3 to be crushed by a giant rock 5 minutes in. Doom and gloom, but its hard to say just how integral Morrigan really is to the continued story of DA. Of course, her plot armor thus far does indicate she is important.


[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
Yes, having the Warden  interact with Morrigan again would be incredibly rewarding to those of  us who love her character, but it would mean nothing to others. Not  everyone romanced her or even cares about what happens to her. Bioware  needs to make a game that is enjoyable for all, regardless of what they  did in Origins, and shoehorning everyone into playing as a Warden again  won't achieve that. Sure, you can make playing as the Warden entirely  optional, but then you're looking at Awakening 2.0 where there's minimal difference between you Origins Warden and newly created Orlesian.[/quote]
I'm feeling cantankerous today, so I'll call bull**** on the bolded part there Shiori;)

Provided that Morrigan is indeed some central figure for anyone in DA, bringing back the Warden or A Warden to deal with her in the future makes sense. If you don't care about Morrigan, what difference does it make who the PC is interacting with her? "Shoehorning" people into the role of a Warden again is no more shoehorning than it is to force people into being Hawke or some new Epic Hero of Thedas. If I never played ME1, why should I give a damn about Tali or Garrus?  Same deal- if you bring back Morrigan  or any old character with a new PC, you're delving into KOTOR2 syndrome, which, from my POV alienates the old players of the first game more than it adds anything for some broad new audience- those new players won't know who those characters are in any event.

I just think it comes down to the fact that BioWare has given players a LARGE amount of choice in how they deal with Morrigan, specifically as a Warden. And the fact that its been a Warden dealing with her is not some insignificant fact, I think. So to just sideline the expectations that they have built up and fed to the players throughout the course of Origins  with respect to the Warden's role in Morrigan's story going forward, would likely kill my faith in BioWare and DA  most likely. Its happened before with NWN, it can happen again.


[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
Yes, she might be  all Flemethy as you said.. at start. But just as in Origins, you'll get  to know her better during the course of the game and her attitude will  change. And that's asuming you character won't have some knowledge of  who Morrigan is and what she's done from the start, which David Gaider  said is unlikely to happen. You may not know all the details but you  won't be completely in the dark either.[/quote]
Having to defrost Morrigan all over again would be terribly boring and in my estimation, really sort of undermine any importance the Warden had in the first place. Morrigan shouldn't be the type of character that can be easily swayed or influenced. Having some new PC simply break through Morrigan's barriers all over again would weaken my view of her as a character. The whole point with the Warden is that he/she is the first person to really have a human relationship with Morrigan, and yet, that Morrigan still isn't comfortable with that. I'd find it a bit of  a stretch if MOrrigan all of a sudden was willing to warm to some other PC and be influenced again. That level of influence should be reserved for a closer companion like the Warden- whether thats via a friendly/romantic relationship or by betraying MOrrigan's trust and stabbing her.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
You don't  need to be her lover in order to be able to influence her. My female  Wardens practically had a sisterly relationship with her by the end of  DA:O and they could influence her as much as my male Wardens who  romanced her could.[/quote]
I like that sisterly side to Morrigan's characetr development with a female PC, but (and its a big but) there is a huge disparity IMO, of how much Morrigan can "change" via that relationship and how she may change based on a genuine romantic relationship with the Warden that results in him having a kid with her and then most importantly, letting him go through the Eluvian with her.


[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
You, as a developer, need to make a product that is not  only attractive to all your existing players but can also draw in new  ones. Making a game focused on a romance and relationship that half of  the players probably don't really care about isn't the way to do it.[/quote]
Its quite the leap to suggest that by bringing back the Warden that the whole game would be focused on the Morrigan/Warden relationship. It very well could be though but its not necessary that it be the romantic side of things- it could very well be the hostile/gut stabbing antagonistic relationship. I think you're overstating the whole bringing in new players side of things- yeah, you don't want convoluted lore or story, but I don't see how bringing the Warden back to deal with  Morrigan in some way would build barriers to new players any more than any other sequel out there that continues a story.  And if Morrigan plays any kind of significant role in the plot/story of some future DA game, if you already don't care for or don't like Morrigan, that presumes you have some prior knowledge of DA and likely aren't a "new" player anyway.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
Not to mention that bringing the Warden as a voice PC is extremely  difficult to pull off. You need about 6 different voice actors to voice 3 races and you need 6 different body models to model your gear around. The sheer amount of space the PC's voice files alone would take on the  disc is insane.[/quote]
All of which suggest to me that if BioWare is genuinely looking at altering the story based on trying to shoehorn in a voiced PC, at the expense of affording more choice and actual gameplay options to the player, they have their priorities royally screwed up.

I'm not universally opposed to a voiced PC, but I just think the drawbacks in terms of how that approach sucks up zots is just a huge waste for not much in return. As Terra has mentioned in the past, you really lose a lot of other choices and options when you decide to go with the voiced PC. and I don't think people realize that.


[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
And whoever the PC in DA3 will be, I can guarantee his/her impact on Morrigan's story will be the same.
[/quote]
The same as the Warden? Meh. Again, as I said above, if you simply have Mr. New Epic Hero of Thedas just as influential to Morrigan as the Warden, not only does that cheapen the Warden, it cheapens Morrigan's character since she is supposed to be some tough nut to crack; not just some NPC that bends to the will of the allmighty PC. Keeping any kind of meaningful influence to one PC would make it much more rewarding I'd think. Nevermind that outside of maybe killing Morrigan, I have a hard time seeing how a new PC could have as much impact on Morrigan as the Warden who romanced her, had a damn Old God Baby with her and went off into Mirror World with her to "face the future together."

I  generally trust the writers, but my chief concern is them pulling a Viconia on the Warden and an Aribeth on Morrigan going forward. They're not infallible, in my view they've screwed up in the past in how they've presented their stories, and how they handle Morrigan's story will pretty much decide whether or not I follow DA or if I end up taking a hiatus from BioWare like I did when they came out with NWN.

Modifié par Brockololly, 02 janvier 2011 - 05:13 .

[gurp123]

Master Shiori wrote...

gurp123 wrote...

Aside from my fascination with Morrigan I still have to side with Brock on this one. I'll actually argue that you can't take Morrigan out of DAO because clearly she and Flemeth have been set up as central figures to the milieu. Well, I lie. Yes, you could remove her and still have a story -- it's fantasy you can do anything and still have a story -- but to do so would send huge ripples through the rest of the storyline. I submit that Morrigan's redemption is a key element to the DAO universe and removing her breaks it. And, since the warden began that redemption, either as a friend or a lover or even as a vengeance seeker at the end of WH, then the warden and Morrigan have unfinished business. This whole concept of what will Morrigan do in the future and what can I do to guide her decisions along with some shrew taming is what makes her so much more fascinating to me than the other NPC's and, perhaps falsely, hopeful that the two will return.

If we're looking at Morrigan purely within the context of Origins itself, then yes, you could easily remove her and it would only lock you out of one ending (Dark Ritual). If you look at her potential role within Dragon Age as a whole, then no, you cannot remove her.
As for the future, assuming you import your saves from Origins and DA2, Morrigan will be shapped by what you did there and you will most likely get the chance to shape her further, whether with the Warden or a new PC. Yes, having the Warden interact with Morrigan again would be incredibly rewarding to those of us who love her character, but it would mean nothing to others. Not everyone romanced her or even cares about what happens to her. Bioware needs to make a game that is enjoyable for all, regardless of what they did in Origins, and shoehorning everyone into playing as a Warden again won't achieve that. Sure, you can make playing as the Warden entirely optional, but then you're looking at Awakening 2.0 where there's minimal difference between you Origins Warden and newly created Orlesian.

Not true. While I started off my post talking about Morrigan's redemption I ended with various scenarios where she ends up playing the villian. I truly can see a relatively easy way to accommodate those who romanced her, those who befriended her, and those who hated her. She is a compelling character in all three aspects. As to those who don't care what happens to her at all, well bringing back Morrigan in any form won't be looked upon fondly. *shrug*

gurp123 wrote...

Now, could I envision a scenario where Morrigan returns without the warden only to interact with another PC? Sure. As Brock and others have stated she could simply return all Flemethy, giving cryptic answers and playing a morally ambiguous role, and it would probably still be entertaining, not engrossing, but entertaining. She could be a relatively shallow NPC interacting with an OGB central character. She could come back already redeemed, but how boring would that be? She could even come back to be romanced and saved by another PC as you suggest. However, it was the warden who helped start her down her path and so would have unique influence on her. Without the warden that conclusion would be lacking. Of course the warden could simply be discarded as her first love/friend and be replaced by someone new, but I think I would find such sloppy seconds to be weak soup indeed.

Yes, she might be all Flemethy as you said.. at start. But just as in Origins, you'll get to know her better during the course of the game and her attitude will change. And that's asuming you character won't have some knowledge of who Morrigan is and what she's done from the start, which David Gaider said is unlikely to happen. You may not know all the details but you won't be completely in the dark either.
Also, where do you get the idea that I want the new protagonist to romance Morrigan?! You don't need to be her lover in order to be able to influence her. My female Wardens practically had a sisterly relationship with her by the end of DA:O and they could influence her as much as my male Wardens who romanced her could.

I never said that you had to romance her. Again, I see the warden as having a unique influence adverserially, friendly, or romantically, and I believe all three can be acommodated in a plot centralized around Morrigan and Flemeth. A new character will always intrude on that relationship even if it's her own blood.

gurp123 wrote...

Here's some more food for thought, and I'm sure I'm not the first to suggest it. Even though Flemeth has nominally been set up as bad and Morrigan good, I can easily see all sorts of interesting plot lines where neither end up being truly bad, e.g. Flemeth created the ritual as simply a way to reclaim the old gods, and the fear of possession was simply a prod to get Morrigan out into the world. Flemeth simply wants to return to the old ways and Morrigan wants to usher in a new world. I can see such plot lines working regardless of the outcome of DAO but still mindful of the choices made. No ritual, no OGB. Morrigan and the the warden must make do with another source of power, which is conveniently always available in a fantasy setting. Romance/Befriend Morrigan and get her to relinquish her power, or claim it from her, or kill both Flemeth and Morrigan, or share it with her... So many possibilities...

Regardless, I see the warden playing a role in Morrigan's fate simply because s/he started it, and I've already explained why I believe Morrigan is essential. So that is why I want to see both return whether or not BW is my b*tch.  

Maybe. Hard to say anything when we know precious little about Morrigan's plans or Flemeth's nature, not to mention nothing about the general premise of DA3.
And Warden's influence would play a part even if he's not there physicaly. The influence of a new PC would as well.
Finally, you need to stop looking at this from the perspective of someone who loves the Warden and Morrigan and try and see it as devs themselves do. Morrigan may be popular, but her fans are only a part of a larger DA playerbase. You, as a developer, need to make a product that is not only attractive to all your existing players but can also draw in new ones. Making a game focused on a romance and relationship that half of the players probably don't really care about isn't the way to do it. Not to mention that bringing the Warden as a voice PC is extremely difficult to pull off. You need about 6 different voice actors to voice 3 races and you need 6 different body models to model your gear around. The sheer amount of space the PC's voice files alone would take on the disc is insane. If Bioware can actually pull this off in a reasonable manner then kudos to them, but I'm not holding my breath, especially since there are cheaper and more effective alternatives (read: new PC). Between Warden and Hawke you have more of a chance of seeing the later again, rather then the former.
And whoever the PC in DA3 will be, I can guarantee his/her impact on Morrigan's story will be the same.

Again, you misunderstand. I'm not saying it has to be a romantic involvement, but in a story revolving around Morrigan and Flemeth I think that should be an option. It could just as easily be a hero/villain relationship. Darth Vader is cool and no one's trying to slip into his shorts. But, putting aside Hamill's acting skills, do you really believe any other character could have influenced Vader besides Luke? Leia? Some offspring from either of them? I don't. Morrigan is a fascinating character whether or not you've romanced her. You need to stop presuming that only a romantic relationship is extendable. The fact that you can go through the mirror with her or stab her brutally opens up such possibilities.

Look, I agree with you that the warden has probably gone past hanging on the cliff and is presently plunging at terminal velocity towards the gators, piranhas and marketing droids, but I think it could be salvaged and I think it would tell a better story. I don't think a new character can have the same impact except by declaring it by fiat in the story. Yes, officially the new character will have saved the world, conquered the lands, rebirthed creation, whatever, but their impact on Morrigan's character just will never seem plausible to me coming in as the warden's understudy. And again, that applies whether you romanced Morrigan or not.

Modifié par gurp123, 02 janvier 2011 - 07:53 .

[gurp123]

Brockololly wrote...

gurp123 wrote...
I submit that Morrigan's redemption is a key element to the DAO universe and removing her breaks it. And, since the warden began that redemption, either as a friend or a lover or even as a vengeance seeker at the end of WH, then the warden and Morrigan have unfinished business. This whole concept of what will Morrigan do in the future and what can I do to guide her decisions along with some shrew taming is what makes her so much more fascinating to me than the other NPC's and, perhaps falsely, hopeful that the two will return.

I'd agree there mostly, with the proviso that it may not be necessary to "redeem" Morrigan. Certainly having a romance with her with your Warden changes her but does it just change her personality towards the Warden as an individual or towards others as well? She still has the whole survival of the fittest mentality and all that going on with her "plan," so at least as Origins goes, I think the only change in her is that she allows the Warden in a little bit. 

Yet, how that affects her broader view of things is where I think its interesting for the future- does the Warden get "corrupted" by Morrigan's view on things or does Morrigan soften her outlook on the world based on her time with the Warden? I think thats the crux of the matter really- tossing out the Warden as a PC at this juncture in Morrigan's story is really weak storytelling. Presumably the big moments in her story are yet to come and since they've allowed the player that choice to go with her, they need to respect that going forward and not just reduce the Warden to some shadowy cameo or codex entry.

You're right. I started out with redemption but morphed as I continued to type. The latter was my intention. Freudian slip.

It doesn't have to be redemption. It could just as easily be opposition or corruption still in opposition to her, or purely seduction (and no that does not have to be romantic...). The most interesting villains are those which share a history with the hero. Flemeth's enigma props her up so far and we'll see what DA2 does, but an opponent you actually know like a Morrigan is more compelling and mysteries either get solved or eventually tiresome a la Lost.

[Master Shiori]

[quote]Brockololly wrote...

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...

If you look at her potential role within Dragon Age as a  whole, then no, you cannot remove her. [/quote]

Maybe, maybe not. For all of the devs posturing that Morrigan's story is not over, for all we know that simply means she takes on some Duncan like role in the beginning of DA3 to be crushed by a giant rock 5 minutes in. Doom and gloom, but its hard to say just how integral Morrigan really is to the continued story of DA. Of course, her plot armor thus far does indicate she is important.
[/quote]

Pessimism is strong in you, isn't it?

Call me gullible but I have a feeling the devs wouldn't announce that Morrigan is coming back only to kill her in the prologue or something. Doesn't mean they won't kill her later on, but I think she'll stick around for a bit before that happens.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
Yes, having the Warden  interact with Morrigan again would be incredibly rewarding to those of  us who love her character, but it would mean nothing to others. Not  everyone romanced her or even cares about what happens to her. Bioware  needs to make a game that is enjoyable for all, regardless of what they  did in Origins, and shoehorning everyone into playing as a Warden again  won't achieve that. Sure, you can make playing as the Warden entirely  optional, but then you're looking at Awakening 2.0 where there's minimal difference between you Origins Warden and newly created Orlesian.[/quote]
I'm feeling cantankerous today, so I'll call bull**** on the bolded part there Shiori;)

Provided that Morrigan is indeed some central figure for anyone in DA, bringing back the Warden or A Warden to deal with her in the future makes sense. If you don't care about Morrigan, what difference does it make who the PC is interacting with her? "Shoehorning" people into the role of a Warden again is no more shoehorning than it is to force people into being Hawke or some new Epic Hero of Thedas. If I never played ME1, why should I give a damn about Tali or Garrus?  Same deal- if you bring back Morrigan  or any old character with a new PC, you're delving into KOTOR2 syndrome, which, from my POV alienates the old players of the first game more than it adds anything for some broad new audience- those new players won't know who those characters are in any event.

I just think it comes down to the fact that BioWare has given players a LARGE amount of choice in how they deal with Morrigan, specifically as a Warden. And the fact that its been a Warden dealing with her is not some insignificant fact, I think. So to just sideline the expectations that they have built up and fed to the players throughout the course of Origins  with respect to the Warden's role in Morrigan's story going forward, would likely kill my faith in BioWare and DA  most likely. Its happened before with NWN, it can happen again.
[/quote]

Short answer? You don't need to care about either, but that's the story Bioware wants to tell you.

Thanks to all the wonderful choices from Origins, each player's story can differ in major ways, which makes bringing all the Wardens back for Morrigan and DA3 both extremely hard and delicate, since you risk to alienate everyone who considers his/her story done.
But let's pretend that's not a issue (even though it is) and say you do bring back the Warden. Now you need to hire 6 (!) voice actors just to voice one character and you need to make all the armor and weapons fit each race. Not to mention adjusting the cinematics because of different height. And you also need to add an alternative PC for everyone who did US, or risk retconing that choice. Now sit down and try to calculate all the money, time and work that needs to go into making this happen and then compare it to the amount needed for a new, more defined PC like Hawke or Shepard. If you were in Mike Laidlaw's shoes what would you pick? It would take me about 2 minutes to pick the later option.
Bringing the Warden back is great in theory and something I still secretly want to happen even if the realist in me knows it's not to be.

As for the Tali and Garrus reference, you wouldn't care about them.. initialy. But you would come to like or dislike them during the course of the game, same as any other ME2 squadmate. And you get shoehorned in every Bioware game. You were made to play as Bhaalspawn in BG, Revan in KOTOR, Hero of Neverwinter in NWN, Spirit Monk in Jade Empire, Shepard in ME and, finaly, the Warden in DA:O. What makes forcing you to play as Hawke in DA2 any different from all these? It always was and will be Bioware's decision on what kind of hero and what kind of story they'll give us and we can either take it or leave it. You don't have a say in that, unless you happen to be Bioware's major shareholder.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
Yes, she might be  all Flemethy as you said.. at start. But just as in Origins, you'll get  to know her better during the course of the game and her attitude will  change. And that's asuming you character won't have some knowledge of  who Morrigan is and what she's done from the start, which David Gaider  said is unlikely to happen. You may not know all the details but you  won't be completely in the dark either.[/quote]
Having to defrost Morrigan all over again would be terribly boring and in my estimation, really sort of undermine any importance the Warden had in the first place. Morrigan shouldn't be the type of character that can be easily swayed or influenced. Having some new PC simply break through Morrigan's barriers all over again would weaken my view of her as a character. The whole point with the Warden is that he/she is the first person to really have a human relationship with Morrigan, and yet, that Morrigan still isn't comfortable with that. I'd find it a bit of  a stretch if MOrrigan all of a sudden was willing to warm to some other PC and be influenced again. That level of influence should be reserved for a closer companion like the Warden- whether thats via a friendly/romantic relationship or by betraying MOrrigan's trust and stabbing her.
[/quote]

Who says you'd be defrosing her? That ship sailed with Origins and I believe Bioware's writers are proffesional enough not to copy paste the same character development from one game to the next. Who's to say that Morrigan might not "warm up" to the new PC out of need for an ally? What if her discussion with him/her isn't about Morrigan's outlook on life or childhood but rather about her potential future and the nature of her plan? What if the PC now helps her realize the alternatives, just like the Warden introduced her to the world beyond the Wilds and to love and friendship? And just because the Warden was the first person to warm to Morrigan doesn't mean he's the only one who can do it. Another PC may not become her lover but he can always be her friend. How? Same way the Warden did in Origins: you start by being an ally out of need and proceed to be something more if you want (but not her lover. That spot is already taken). And the whole thing may be easier then it was in DA:O since Morrigan is different and more used to the idea of interacting with others.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
You don't  need to be her lover in order to be able to influence her. My female  Wardens practically had a sisterly relationship with her by the end of  DA:O and they could influence her as much as my male Wardens who  romanced her could.[/quote]
I like that sisterly side to Morrigan's characetr development with a female PC, but (and its a big but) there is a huge disparity IMO, of how much Morrigan can "change" via that relationship and how she may change based on a genuine romantic relationship with the Warden that results in him having a kid with her and then most importantly, letting him go through the Eluvian with her.
[/quote]

It's the same deal. The only difference is her "sister" doesn't go through the mirror. Your female Warden does as much for her as a male Warden can. While, I can't find a logical reason why a female Warden cannot follow her through the Eluvian, I doubt it's due to "not being able to influence her properly". Most likely the writers didn't picture anyone wanting to do that except Morrigan's lovers.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
You, as a developer, need to make a product that is not  only attractive to all your existing players but can also draw in new  ones. Making a game focused on a romance and relationship that half of  the players probably don't really care about isn't the way to do it.[/quote]
Its quite the leap to suggest that by bringing back the Warden that the whole game would be focused on the Morrigan/Warden relationship. It very well could be though but its not necessary that it be the romantic side of things- it could very well be the hostile/gut stabbing antagonistic relationship. I think you're overstating the whole bringing in new players side of things- yeah, you don't want convoluted lore or story, but I don't see how bringing the Warden back to deal with  Morrigan in some way would build barriers to new players any more than any other sequel out there that continues a story.  And if Morrigan plays any kind of significant role in the plot/story of some future DA game, if you already don't care for or don't like Morrigan, that presumes you have some prior knowledge of DA and likely aren't a "new" player anyway.
[/quote]

It wouldn't build barriers, it would be pointless for new players since they don't care either way. But the problem doesn't lie in lore but rather in technical side of things, as I said several times already.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
Not to mention that bringing the Warden as a voice PC is extremely  difficult to pull off. You need about 6 different voice actors to voice 3 races and you need 6 different body models to model your gear around. The sheer amount of space the PC's voice files alone would take on the  disc is insane.[/quote]
All of which suggest to me that if BioWare is genuinely looking at altering the story based on trying to shoehorn in a voiced PC, at the expense of affording more choice and actual gameplay options to the player, they have their priorities royally screwed up.

I'm not universally opposed to a voiced PC, but I just think the drawbacks in terms of how that approach sucks up zots is just a huge waste for not much in return. As Terra has mentioned in the past, you really lose a lot of other choices and options when you decide to go with the voiced PC. and I don't think people realize that.
[/quote]

I'm not a diehard fan od voiced PC's either, since I played a number of games that didn't have them (DA:O, Fallout 3 and older Bioware games) and still enjoyed them. Both silent and voiced PC have advantages and disadvantages. Having played Mass Effect 1 & 2 and, recently, FFXIII I  can see the benefits of a voiced PC too.
Bioware obviously wants to go with voiced protagonist for now and see how that works. Time will tell if they'll drop it or stick with it for a while, but for me it doesn't make much difference either way.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
And whoever the PC in DA3 will be, I can guarantee his/her impact on Morrigan's story will be the same.
[/quote]
The same as the Warden? Meh. Again, as I said above, if you simply have Mr. New Epic Hero of Thedas just as influential to Morrigan as the Warden, not only does that cheapen the Warden, it cheapens Morrigan's character since she is supposed to be some tough nut to crack; not just some NPC that bends to the will of the allmighty PC. Keeping any kind of meaningful influence to one PC would make it much more rewarding I'd think. Nevermind that outside of maybe killing Morrigan, I have a hard time seeing how a new PC could have as much impact on Morrigan as the Warden who romanced her, had a damn Old God Baby with her and went off into Mirror World with her to "face the future together."

I  generally trust the writers, but my chief concern is them pulling a Viconia on the Warden and an Aribeth on Morrigan going forward. They're not infallible, in my view they've screwed up in the past in how they've presented their stories, and how they handle Morrigan's story will pretty much decide whether or not I follow DA or if I end up taking a hiatus from BioWare like I did when they came out with NWN.
[/quote]

Yes, the same as the Warden. Honestly Brock, just look at Awakening and Witch Hunt and you'll easily see the likely scenario. At best, you're looking at a bunch of unique dialogue options for the Warden and that's it. Nobody is going to make extra cutscenes or additional content to add more MorrixWarden flavour, not when you need to focus on the game at large. The story would be the same and so would the amount of your interaction with Morrigan, regardless of who you play with.
New PC can have impact based on the circumstances at hand and on his/her relationship with Morrigan (read: how he/she threats Morri and whether they're simply allies out of neccesity or true friends). Yes, it's unlikely to be as close a relationship as what the Warden has with Morrigan, but friendship can change people too.
But all this is purely specilation since I can't read David Gaider's mind nor can I guess what kind of a story Bioware wants to tell in DA3..

Modifié par Master Shiori, 02 janvier 2011 - 11:57 .

[Master Shiori]

gurp123 wrote...

Not true. While I started off my post talking about Morrigan's redemption I ended with various scenarios where she ends up playing the villian. I truly can see a relatively easy way to accommodate those who romanced her, those who befriended her, and those who hated her. She is a compelling character in all three aspects. As to those who don't care what happens to her at all, well bringing back Morrigan in any form won't be looked upon fondly. *shrug*

I know. I can see the benefits for the Warden too. But the fact is the game wouldn't be made to focus on the relationship between Morrigan and the Warden anymore, nor would you get extra gooddies for it. You'd have the same game regardless of who you play as and the same interaction, with a few extra lines for the Warden. Point being that the writers would make sure that every PC gets the same option when it comes to influencing Morrigan, especially when that influence reflects on the story itself.

gurp123 wrote...

I never said that you had to romance her. Again, I see the warden as having a unique influence adverserially, friendly, or romantically, and I believe all three can be acommodated in a plot centralized around Morrigan and Flemeth. A new character will always intrude on that relationship even if it's her own blood.

I get what you're saying , but any influence you can have on Morrigan would be there in interest of the story itself and, as such, would be open to any PC, regardless whether he's the Warden, Hawke or some new hero.

gurp123 wrote...


Again, you misunderstand. I'm not saying it has to be a romantic involvement, but in a story revolving around Morrigan and Flemeth I think that should be an option. It could just as easily be a hero/villain relationship. Darth Vader is cool and no one's trying to slip into his shorts. But, putting aside Hamill's acting skills, do you really believe any other character could have influenced Vader besides Luke? Leia? Some offspring from either of them? I don't. Morrigan is a fascinating character whether or not you've romanced her. You need to stop presuming that only a romantic relationship is extendable. The fact that you can go through the mirror with her or stab her brutally opens up such possibilities.

Look, I agree with you that the warden has probably gone past hanging on the cliff and is presently plunging at terminal velocity towards the gators, piranhas and marketing droids, but I think it could be salvaged and I think it would tell a better story. I don't think a new character can have the same impact except by declaring it by fiat in the story. Yes, officially the new character will have saved the world, conquered the lands, rebirthed creation, whatever, but their impact on Morrigan's character just will never seem plausible to me coming in as the warden's understudy. And again, that applies whether you romanced Morrigan or not.

Oh, I'm not trying to say that you're wrong or that I'm right (hell, I'd be praying like mad for the exact opposite to be true...). I'm just saying that based on what we've heard from the devs so far, the reunion between Warden and Morrigan doesn't seem likely, even if it would be extremely rewarding both emotionaly and as part of a larger story.
We can always hope for it to happen, but I get the feeling the odds aren't in our favour..

[LTS_Guitarian]

[rant]

You know, this has gone on and on for ages now. I seriously don't think anyone is going to change their minds about it (message forums rarely induce anything but arguments anyway).



Myself, and plenty of others agree with Brock for the most part. We want more Warden and Morrigan. Period. I have no interest in the new game that doesn't finish their story and nothing written here is going to change that.



Maybe it would have been best if they never made Witch Hunt in the first place, since that only seemed to make things worse in the long run. I say that because it didn't even come close to fulfilling any of the hype around it and it only raised more questions.



If they do make another man to fill the Warden's shoes, then that's even worse. Did the Warden mean that little to her? That would be the biggest slap in the face yet. What happened to "I shall always remember you...my love"?



But at this stage, I would hardly be surprised. It seems that Gaider and co. are hellbent on alienating the Morrigan fan base as it is. They'll make the games how they want to, that's their prerogative. And my money will remain snugly stashed in my wallet. That's my prerogative.



When I go to a restaurant and order a steak medium-well, I want it medium-well, dammit! I don't care how good it might taste cooked well-done. That's not what I, the consumer, asked for. I've never been one to settle for what they give me, and I'm not about to start now.

[/rant]

[Herr Uhl]

LTS_Guitarian wrote...

[rant]
You know, this has gone on and on for ages now. I seriously don't think anyone is going to change their minds about it (message forums rarely induce anything but arguments anyway).

Myself, and plenty of others agree with Brock for the most part. We want more Warden and Morrigan. Period. I have no interest in the new game that doesn't finish their story and nothing written here is going to change that.

Maybe it would have been best if they never made Witch Hunt in the first place, since that only seemed to make things worse in the long run. I say that because it didn't even come close to fulfilling any of the hype around it and it only raised more questions.

If they do make another man to fill the Warden's shoes, then that's even worse. Did the Warden mean that little to her? That would be the biggest slap in the face yet. What happened to "I shall always remember you...my love"?

But at this stage, I would hardly be surprised. It seems that Gaider and co. are hellbent on alienating the Morrigan fan base as it is. They'll make the games how they want to, that's their prerogative. And my money will remain snugly stashed in my wallet. That's my prerogative.

When I go to a restaurant and order a steak medium-well, I want it medium-well, dammit! I don't care how good it might taste cooked well-done. That's not what I, the consumer, asked for. I've never been one to settle for what they give me, and I'm not about to start now.
[/rant]

So, in short: Unless Morrigan wuwed your warden forever and ever, they ruin it? Don't mind that, I'm just not that much for sappy "love conquers all" stories (note: Morrigan is my favourite romance and I did it with my most official warden). Personal preference.

I'm fine as long as the plot-thread (OGB) gets picked up in a fashin that settles it. I'd be fine if the warden never got brought up again more than in mention, but going through the eluvian mirror seems like an odd option to put in there in that case.

Edit: Might also have been because my warden stopped searching after her seriously past the first few years (as in for love) and then only after the child. This was before the expansions.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 03 janvier 2011 - 12:49 .

[Master Shiori]

LTS_Guitarian wrote...


If they do make another man to fill the Warden's shoes, then that's even worse. Did the Warden mean that little to her? That would be the biggest slap in the face yet. What happened to "I shall always remember you...my love"?

Err, maybe I'm not getting something here, but what makes you think that the inclusion of a new PC would make Morrigan forget all about Warden?

She'd still love the Warden and remember everything he did for her and everything they shared (provided you import a save from DA:O ofc). Yet, that doesn't mean she couldn't become allies or friends with anyone else.

After all, it's not Morrigan's call to decide who gets to be the hero of DA3 (or whatever title she returns in) but the devs themselves. I honestly doubt they'd ask a fictional character for her opinion on the matter.

[Mr Plow]

I think Morrigan is a wonderful character and would love to see more of her and my Warden together in DA 3 but I think with all the gameplay/story complexities I think they will just remove the Warden off screen and at best have Morrigan reminise about him