Giggles_Manically wrote...
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
And hence the death of art.
Well Bioware is a company.
At the end of the day what makes the more money is what counts.
If I want art in games I look to the Indie developers now.
Brockololly wrote...
But I expected something- not just one big "Thank you Warden! But our Old God Baby is in another dimension!" Followed by Morrigan basically wagging her finger at you refusing to answer any questions of substance, even though you can follow her through the Eluvian with no problem and no fuss.
ximena wrote...
The way I see it, the Bioware devs aren't really in control of their marketing. EA does that for them. And as far as I can see, their marketing could use some help. (Usually, in big companies/corporations, they have their own marketing department. The only go ahead signal they need is the Big boss... not the creators who know the creation the most.)
WH is a victim here too. It's a product with desirable points that wasn't even advertised well.
My point is that I think a gamer shouldn't entirely base it on the promises the marketing makes. What's important with the game is the experience. And the good thing is.... there's actually a demo you can try later this month. I know there might isn't really anything about Morrigan here. But the thing is... this is still the dragon age universe. And THERE'S FLEMETH. Aren't you at least interested how things unfold and lead to Morrigan's return? They devs did say this is something like a set up for something along those lines.
And I think it's not the devs who broke your trust, it's the marketing. And they seriously need to be burned. May I ask now.... just because the marketing screw up, the game is "total garbage?"
The thing about internet advertising is that no one regulates your advertising. In TV and print, there are actually regulations about putting forward false claims. Sadly, WH suffered from being marketed with a false claim.
What exactly do you need them to fix anyway?
Master Shiori wrote...
When people like Brock pointed out the whole "all your Morri questions answered" mess to David Gaider and Bioware, they took down the banner in question but the damage was already done by that point.
It's obvious from their reaction that devs never intended to provide answers to every Morri related mystery nor did they want to advertise WH as such. The fault here lies entirely with marketing team. Other than making sure someone gets sanctioned or even fired, there's not much else Bioware can do.
All that devs themselves can do is make sure all their future games (like DA2) turn out to be a quility product.
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I usually dislike canonization, but when it comes to DR or no DR, DR offers much more potetnial than the alternative and I would see it as an acceptable sacrifice to ignore it.
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
As for WH. I think the main dissapointment here is that it could have been much more. Evidently, the concept of Awakening has been put on hold and will most probably be dropped. That makes Awakening feel useless and like an isolated event (I still like it though). What should have been done is either merge WH and Awakening into one expansion, or drop Awakening completely and make an expansion out of WH. There are hints in the DLC itself that it was supposed to be much more than this.
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Actually, did Morrigan answer anything really except advertize DA2? And the second reason, which is more important to me, is that it could have been much much more and closer to what Morrigan and her subplot truly deserve.
"It is the Maker who creates mages. The Chantry was built by men, and it can be brought down by them."
Anders, the light-hearted rebel mage from Dragon Age: Origins, Awakening, has changed. Urged by his friend Justice to fight the Circle of Magi more actively, Anders agreed to become Justice's human host… only to find that his anger at the Circle warped Justice into the demonic spirit of Vengeance. Now Anders must struggle mentally and physically to maintain his control over the demon within... at least long enough to see the Circle of Magi overturned forever.
Modifié par Brockololly, 09 février 2011 - 03:33 .
Brockololly wrote...
Although, I do worry about Morrigan's return given how they've elected to bring back Anders. It would seem that regardless of how you left off Anders at the end of Awakening, he ends up ditching the Wardens and hooking up with Justice/Vengeance. Not to mention that its hardly the same Anders we knew in Awakening anyway- they seem to have gone a 180 with him. That makes me wonder if they don't pull something similar whenever Morrigan returns passing off any character change as up to the passage of time or some such hand waving, basically nullifying any choice you made to influence her in Origins.
Not that they couldn't do something interesting with that sort of thing, but I find character development more compelling when you can start out with a character at point A and have them end at point B, but the transition from A to B happened organically such that any change in character doesn't seem abrupt but happens in a way that you don't necessarily realize it until you're at that point B. So with Anders 2.0, its like they just skipped everything between A and B and are just starting you at point B and you have to figure out how he got there. I'd hate it if they did something like that with Morrigan in the future.
Brockololly wrote...
Although, I do worry about Morrigan's return given how they've elected to bring back Anders.
Master Shiori wrote...
Nebezial, comic book artist show also posts his work at DeviantART, drew a bunch of random fantasy women lately.
Guess who the second woman on bottom right is?
drawn by Nebezial
Giggles_Manically wrote...
I wonder how many people will be crying come DA3 that Hawke will not be in it, leading to Bioware blowing them off and saying: NEW STORY NEW HERO!
Giving you guys the perfect moment to say: And now you share our pain.
Master Shiori wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
I wonder how many people will be crying come DA3 that Hawke will not be in it, leading to Bioware blowing them off and saying: NEW STORY NEW HERO!
Giving you guys the perfect moment to say: And now you share our pain.
About as many as are crying now because the Warden is gone.
Honestly, it's inevitable and I'll be surprised if someone at Bioware isn't aware of it.
Giggles_Manically wrote...
Unless those people did not play Origins that is..... meaning they dont have any idea what will happen.
Modifié par Brockololly, 09 février 2011 - 04:26 .
Giggles_Manically wrote...
Yeah.
Brock you can dream.
Just expect EA to take a dump on it.
The warden will not be there because a bridge landed on him.
Morrigan will look like a Samurai.
Then the OGB will not exist due to some import bug nutting up the game.
A pessimist me? YOU BET.
Brockololly wrote...
To get back on the topic of Morrigan, again, I'll reiterate my inane hope that DA2 ends with Morrigan/Warden/OGB stepping out of the Eluvian, with the world all screwed up cause of Hawke getting played like a fool by Flemeth. Cue Warden/Morrigan/OGB blasting Hawke into oblivion and taking care of business. I can dream, right?
Brockololly wrote...
Well, it says something about BioWare's approach though if a roster update of new PC's is all you get across titles in DA. As I've said before, if it goes the NWN route of one shot stories with tenuous threads of continuity, I'm out. I don't invest dozens of hours of time in a game only for stuff to get retconned and tossed out or forgotten when the main draw of BioWare games are the characters and effects of choices.
I can say pretty easily that unless DA3 directly deals with Morrigan/OGB or they bring the Warden back, I'm done with DA and given by their other offerings, probably BioWare. I just have no interest to play a bunch of games that so blatantly copy off of each other in terms of mechanics/presentation and seem like they're just getting pumped out quicker and quicker to meet the demands of EA, which I fear is slowly driving BioWare's quality into the ground, or at least forcing them to make safer and safer, more generic and forgettable games.
I'm just not buying into Hawke as a PC with the dialogue wheel and all. I never gave a rat's ass about Shepard half as much as my Wardens and in turn, never cared too much about the ME companions because it always just like watching some movie, not being actively involved in the game/story like DAO. I mean, if you saw the 2 minute intro to DA2 that was revealed yesterday, its so painfully obvious they want DA2 to be *just* like a movie. I was just waiting for "A Mike Laidlaw Film" to scroll up on the opening credits. But it doesn't work cause it just looks awkward as all hell. Meh.
To get back on the topic of Morrigan, again, I'll reiterate my inane hope that DA2 ends with Morrigan/Warden/OGB stepping out of the Eluvian, with the world all screwed up cause of Hawke getting played like a fool by Flemeth. Cue Warden/Morrigan/OGB blasting Hawke into oblivion and taking care of business. I can dream, right?
Brockololly wrote...
Well, it says something about BioWare's approach though if a roster update of new PC's is all you get across titles in DA. As I've said before, if it goes the NWN route of one shot stories with tenuous threads of continuity
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Speaking of the OGB, do you guys
think that in terms of looks, he will look like his mother and father,
or as the god of beauty, he'd assume his own form? Or maybe as the god
of beauty he judges Morrigan's and the Warden's phenotypes to be
adequate? xD
Hopefully they won't abandon or ruin the OGB sub-plot, I have high hopes for him.
Brockololly wrote...
I'm reading through A Game of Thrones
right now and besides being awesome, its great how GRR Martin is able to
juggle a bunch of different characters all at once and yet weave them
back together when the narrative calls for it. If DAO and DA2 set up
the Warden and Hawke, I would love it if DA3 set up a multiple
protagonist approach with the Warden/Hawke and maybe a new guy as PC's,
then break the story down in chapters or Starcraft like campaigns,
maybe with World War Thedas as the Big "Change" event, giving it from
the different perspectives of the 3 PCs. Now THAT would be some
innovative story telling for an RPG.
Master Shiori wrote...
If that's your opinion, then fair
enough. I, on the other hand, didn't buy into the whole "all your
Morrigan questions answered!" hype and therefore didn't end up
disappointed or found WH to be lacking in any form.
My only
expectation was to have a proper closure to the romance between my
Warden and Morrigan and that's what I got. So yes, Witch Hunt lived up
to all my expectations, though I get it that others may have expected more out of it.
ximena wrote...
The way I see it, the Bioware devs aren't
really in control of their marketing. EA does that for them. And as far
as I can see, their marketing could use some help. (Usually, in big
companies/corporations, they have their own marketing department. The
only go ahead signal they need is the Big boss... not the creators who
know the creation the most.)
WH is a victim here too. It's a product with desirable points that wasn't even advertised well.
Brockololly wrote...
Although, I do worry about Morrigan's
return given how they've elected to bring back Anders. It would seem
that regardless of how you left off Anders at the end of Awakening, he
ends up ditching the Wardens and hooking up with Justice/Vengeance. Not
to mention that its hardly the same Anders we knew in Awakening anyway-
they seem to have gone a 180 with him. That makes me wonder if they
don't pull something similar whenever Morrigan returns passing off any
character change as up to the passage of time or some such hand waving,
basically nullifying any choice you made to influence her in Origins.
LTS_Guitarian wrote...
I guess it all depends on how many recyclable fans BiowarEA feels they have. Do they pick up more than they lose with each new game? That's a tactic that EA has used for years with it's various franchises, The Madden NFL and Need For Speed series being the chief example among them (I used to love Madden until I realized it was never actually going to be a football game, and I had every NFS until that garbage Carbon came out.).
.
Swoo wrote...
I don't know about that, everything I've heard has said EA is very serious about trying to take a major chunk out of the RPG Market. I would think that as long as Bioware has the sales, EA will probably keep their hands off for the most part. They can't all be Blizzard and release when personally satisfied or cancel something 3/4 of the way through because it's only going to be 'good'.
I've been wrong about 'There's no Evil Empire!' before, though.
Modifié par LTS_Guitarian, 09 février 2011 - 09:42 .
Swoo wrote...
The biggest thing is 'Is the story self-contained enough to move on to the new chapter?'. Several (especially the JRPGs) rather successful and storied franchises pull it off with no problems, even sharing a common world or bridging meta-plot, because there's a very clear stopping point that even though you want more, you can see how enough was enough.
I think they failed at this in Origins by going against their original idea that the Archdemon killed you no matter what. It would even have made sense that the DR would be offered with no chance of survival as more of a 'You are going to die, this is the only chance' and then they moved onto the story. As it stands, at least half (perhaps more) of players and ending were left with a 'To Be Continued' feel that was followed up with 'Chapter II: Tony Hawke".
Swoo wrote...
The Xeno games actually did that, and I found it very enjoyable, but with the new push being 'as accessable as possible' it would never happen in EA-Bioware. I think many would find it disjointing to continiously change major P.O.V. characters instead of staying on the rails. To make the point because I'm sure it's easy to think it between the lines, I'm not saying it's too smart for some players or anything, just that there's a mindset that would like it, and another that wouldn't, and I can't see them doing that after this major streamline push.
I almost wonder if the marketing people even play the games sometimes. Its just like there is some fundamental disconnect at times.Swoo wrote...
If you say a product is going to have something knowing full well it's not going to deliver, well, some people call that misleading, others fraud. I get your argument and understand that the actual writers might have had a 'WTF' moment, but in the end 'Wasn't me, it was them' doesn't really work for me when you are talking about a product for purchase.
Swoo wrote...
I'm seriously going to be looking for Anders to pull off the Penance Stare. It has to happen, it's such an obvious swipe. On the other hand, there has to be some comfort in that Anders is most certainly recognizable as Anders, so the new art style doesn't look like that much of a threat to the returning Morrigan as it did before. (Hot Rod Samurai Swamp Witch!) Also, I can understand why they pushed for a reinvention of the character of Anders as he was obviously an Alistair stand-in for the expansion, while this way gives him his very own chance to grow and develop into his own character.
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