16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Grendenhal]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

I fail to see what BW doesn't get, content focused on the Origins companions interacting with the Warden. Well, I do get it, not being so naive as to pretend there isn't a significant financial motive in just churning out new content with minimal consequence management attached.

I know nothing about the gaming business model in general or Bioware's in particular.  But it seems to be a mature, highly-competitive industry, so I would assume that the First Commandment of marketing in such industries --    Keep Your Current Clients Happy Before Chasing After New Ones" -- applies.

I would be curious if someone could explain it.  Because from where I sit, Bioware's seeming disdain for plot continuity that meaningfully integrates previous beloved characters seems perversely self-defeating.  It's been known for decades how to create sequels that have sufficient continuity to satisfy previous gameplayers but are sufficiently self-contained to engage newcomers.  That would seem to be obviously the best business model.  Prior gameplayers can't wait to get their hands on the latest chapter.  Newcomers don't care much whether there was or wasn't a previous chapter, so long as the latest chapter is good on its own merits.  But once they're hooked, they're more likely to go back and buy the previous chapters.

I'm sure I'm missing something.

[Barbarossa2010]

Grendenhal wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

I fail to see what BW doesn't get, content focused on the Origins companions interacting with the Warden. Well, I do get it, not being so naive as to pretend there isn't a significant financial motive in just churning out new content with minimal consequence management attached.

I know nothing about the gaming business model in general or Bioware's in particular.  But it seems to be a mature, highly-competitive industry, so I would assume that the First Commandment of marketing in such industries --    Keep Your Current Clients Happy Before Chasing After New Ones" -- applies.

I would be curious if someone could explain it.  Because from where I sit, Bioware's seeming disdain for plot continuity that meaningfully integrates previous beloved characters seems perversely self-defeating.  It's been known for decades how to create sequels that have sufficient continuity to satisfy previous gameplayers but are sufficiently self-contained to engage newcomers.  That would seem to be obviously the best business model.  Prior gameplayers can't wait to get their hands on the latest chapter.  Newcomers don't care much whether there was or wasn't a previous chapter, so long as the latest chapter is good on its own merits.  But once they're hooked, they're more likely to go back and buy the previous chapters.

I'm sure I'm missing something.

I don't think you're missing anything.  The buy-in factor of direct continuity cannot be denied.  Gaider has said so himself in an earlier conversation we've had with him, but despite that knowledge, they went in the direction of non-continuity for DA.  They obviously have internal data that supports such an approach, not to mention the in-house success of ME2 that has had a corporate impact and they seem to wish to replicate for DA.  In fact, this appears to be the DA team's overriding focus from my outsider's view.

They are very likely under pressure to demonstrate the same level of unit sales as ME and have developed accordingly.  And, to be perfectly honest, they are on record as saying that DA was about Thedas, but I think we were all hoping that this would be interpreted as a world-focused experience, but witnessed through the eyes of a single PC (the Warden).  I think most of the attendees of this thread (and the other companion fan threads) believe a non-PC centric methodology just doesn't seem to be a winning approach to a franchise game experience.  They (we) simply want more of what drew us to the game in the first place.

I absolutely believe in giving the player base what they want first and then worrying about adding to that base by doing that very thing over time.  Bethesda gave us more of what we wanted from FO3 in New Vegas and then took that to a whole new level in my view.  It seems the right approach:  please the base first, then bolt on 'improvements' afterward to attract others.  I really can't imagine attempting to build a franchise any other way, but I read the DA2 forums and am simply amazed with the "the Warden's done" BS.  I started thinking that the old school RPGers and hardcore Warden fans may...just may...not make up the majority of the DA fan base, or (more disturbingly) we are the majority and BW has thrown their lot in with gaining a younger, less attentive demographic (who are legion) at the risk of losing a portion of previous players.

I'm rambling, but I really don't understand their approach and have concluded over the past year that they are doing what they're doing simply for the bottom line and ease of development.  Just my take.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 13 février 2011 - 01:40 .

[Esbatty]

I remember a while back Gaider mentioned that they "have their waves to bring the Warden back" if they wanted to. In regards to having the Warden return, with a voice, in a future DA sequel I imagine it could be as simple actually making a male or female Warden a mute through injury or sorcery, like sacrificing their voice (since its the Warden's greatest strength in Coercing and rallying forces to defeat the AD) and Morrigan has to bind one of those little Wisp's so it "speaks" for the Warden. Thus the "dialogue wheel" would instead be like the Wisp offering up the Warden a selection of responses and then a Desire Demon/Fade Spirit style voice would speak the chosen response thus you'd only need 2 VAs to voice the Warden.



It'd work for a US Warden even that maybe Morrigan needed to resurrect them and they came back not as "intact" and thus they return with a "different voice" yet they could still be a human or dwarf or elf. Again you'd only need 2 VAs to accomplish this. I can already foresee the b*tching about this that "oh my Warden sounds like sh*t" or "the voice doesn't match my Warden's expressions".



Anywho, its just an idea. I figured you'd still have your mute Warden with this little floaty/sparkly translator. Hell maybe an aggressive response would make it turn Red during a cutscene. lol

[MKDAWUSS]

If we're bringing the Warden back as a PC, I'd rather have it go back to the KOTOR/DAO system of dialog rather than the ME/DA2 system.



... unless they're going to bring back the voice packages that they had in DAO and expand it to include voiced dialog scenarios...

[gurp123]

LTS_Guitarian wrote...

And grup, I dunno if you agreed with me or disagreed, but, quite honestly, I don't read posts where people break down every single section of someone else's post.  If you agreed, then cool.  If not, then that's cool, too.

As someone who's over the last 7 days spent 26 hours on international flights, another 9 hours in airports including the wonderful experience that is Heathrow, and a mid-Atlantic emergency (turned out to be minor) abort back to Labrador due to a burned out recirc fan venting fumes into the cabin, you'll forgive me for not having sympathy for the impatience to read 2 minutes of text.

However, in the interest of being amicable I'll give you the Cliff's Notes. I did agree with you and I do prefer stories of substance and an epic feel. I just believe that based on what I've seen in ME2 and what limited information I've heard about DA2 Bioware has decided that the mechanics of the game are more important than the characters and player investment. I think the audience that strategy appeals to is the same audience that is content with the Warden exiting, is excited about Hawk, and will be equally happy to have a completely different protagonist in DA3. And, more disappointingly, that audience is much larger.

Cheers.

Modifié par gurp123, 13 février 2011 - 11:22 .

[gurp123]

Brockololly wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...
I've thought of that before but the problem with that is you'd have a kind of but thou must scenario which essentially eliminates the "big choice" from Origins because the outcome would have been the same. At the time I felt that the DR sequence didn't offer adequate dialogue choices to explore the issues that I wanted to broach. Also of equal importance was there was no justifiable reason given why a morri-romancing warden could not leave with her/follow shortly after her. Her dialogue might fit fine if you shunned her throughout the game, but in context of a friend or especially romantically involved warden it comes across as "I'm leaving, you can't follow/ask why/do anything about it because the writers say so." If you're aiming for bittersweet there has to be grounding for it in the plot and dialogue, and Flemeth-esque meandering around said issue doesn't provide it. I would probably have allowed the player to leave with her (assuming we were going with the new PC approach) and had the expansion/DLCs focus on a mini-series of events that'd lead into DA2. Then, at whatever point Morrigan reappeared, you simple stick the warden placeholder in the scene, continuity acheived. As it stands though, they have perpetuated the idea that the warden(s) could still have a part to play in the future and not just those who romanced Morrigan.

Bingo, Terra.
As we've gone over endlessly, and Barbarossa in particular (), the problems with the DR scene stems from the lack of adequate RP and dialogue choices. Or what decent dialogue is there is hidden down bizarre paths. Witch Hunt fixed this to some extent in that it let you leave with Morrigan, but did nothing to even remotely answer any question like as to why the Warden couldn't have just followed Morrigan after Origins in the first place?

The problem in part is that if you take the DR, it doesn't feel like the whole Blight storyline is really over though, as you're still left with Urthemiel, and you're not given answers to any questions as to what the heck could come of that decision. The DR option was a twist that simply came out of no where at the end of the game when I was getting ready to simply deal with the AD and that was it. It would be like if they threw some twist in at the end of Throne of Bhaal- ToB worked as a conclusion to the Bhaalspawn story because it dealt with what everything was building up to (your divine heritage) and simply left you with choice, no trickery or anything. So when you finished that and the epilogue rolled, you didn't have any lingering questions or plots dangling. You had closure. And even though the epilogues hinted at more adventures and so on, the story felt done. So if you saw the Bhaalspawn in a cameo in some future game, that would have been cool, as I had a sense of closure with his tale. Yet with DAO and the DR, there is absolutely no closure at all there- its basically a choice you made with zero consequence or even a hint as to what that consequence may be. And the only person I want dealing with that choice and consequence is the Warden.

I completely agree with you, but this bittersweet cliffhanger seems to be what the devs want. It's a taunt that I just don't get, frankly. Bringing back Morrigan without the Warden will be totally unsatisfying to those who romanced her at this stage. Whereas if they truly had some closure at the end of DA or WH, then it would be fine to bring her back at some substantially later point in the story without the Warden.

Terra_Ex wrote...
As an aside I'm still not putting it past BioWare to use the Eluvian as a Unreal Tourney insta-gib for the warden.

I almost fully expect them to cook up something like that for the Warden- either he gets insta-gibbed, or otherwise dies in the Eluvian. Doesn't matter how, just that he does. This way you can pull the FLemeth card, of Morrigan having love and lost and in turn somehow feeling betrayed by losing her loved one and turning into Big Bad Mean Morrigan. Oh! Whats this? If you stabbed Morrigan, you can have her be Big Bad Mean Morrigan too! And then since it will be a new PC likely anyway, just have all DA3 Morrigans be Big Bad Mean Morrigan! Problem solved!

I fully expect to find the Warden to have died on the other side of the Eluvian or at any of the other plot option points and have BBMM. It's the simplest way to reintroduce her irrespective of the previous player choices. It gives them a second chance to have a (non-Warden) PC impact her and get to do the romance thing all over again:

"Oh! I can never love again!" *teary eyed half pirouette away from the PC accompanied by a frail back of the hand lifted to her forehead*

"Yes! Yes you can! I know I can never be the man/elf/mutant that {Insert Name Here} was but I can always love you!"

"'Tis possible you will..." *pivoting back to the embrace of {Insert Other Name Here}* *cue crescendo*

Or, it gives them the opportunity to have those Morri-stabbers finish the deed, and they probably won't care if it's their original Warden or someone else as long as she gets what's coming to her.

Modifié par gurp123, 14 février 2011 - 12:00 .

[Barbarossa2010]

gurp123 wrote...

...I think the audience that strategy appeals to is the same audience that is content with the Warden exiting, is excited about Hawk, and will be equally happy to have a completely different protagonist in DA3. And, more disappointingly, that audience is much larger.

Cheers.

Yeah, that's the hardest thing to get used to.  I've come to see over the past year that my (and certainly a few others that attend this thread) viewpoint on this franchise is quite likely in the minority.  It just seemed like a no-brainer that we would continue on as the Warden, especially in light of a Morrigan romance and the Dark Ritual.  I personally thought it an outrage, but found some solace in the fact that Act 2 (i.e. DA2) would allow us to probe deeper into the mystery and interact further with Morrigan and our companions to witness first hand the consequences of the decisions made in Origins.  

Then along came Hawke, and I've just been scratching my head ever since, never seeing it as anything other than a shameless cop out.  I still don't get it, but then again, I'm not over on the DA2 boards falling all over myself to embrace change, so obviously what makes sense to me is far from the party line. 

I guess I just never saw myself as being so wildly outside the targeted demographic for a franchise game that I was drawn to and interested in.  But, I do have a quirk in that I like to see stories finished out or at least a little closure; not perpetual cliff hangers that fizzle out or go nowhere, only to be replaced by new cliff hangers, and so on.

But back to your point, I agree that it is quite disappointing that so many appear so indifferent about the Warden/Morrigan/DR (who we played or encountered only a mere 14 months ago) and so giddy about the (all I can call it is 'disruptive') direction of the franchise. 

[TheBlackBaron]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Yeah, that's the hardest thing to get used to.  I've come to see over the past year that my (and certainly a few others that attend this thread) viewpoint on this franchise is quite likely in the minority.  It just seemed like a no-brainer that we would continue on as the Warden, especially in light of a Morrigan romance and the Dark Ritual.  I personally thought it an outrage, but found some solace in the fact that Act 2 (i.e. DA2) would allow us to probe deeper into the mystery and interact further with Morrigan and our companions to witness first hand the consequences of the decisions made in Origins.

I remember several threads where myself and others pointed out the (rather substanial in our minds) evidence that the Warden's story was not done and would be continued past Awakening... <_< 

Then along came Hawke, and I've just been scratching my head ever since, never seeing it as anything other than a shameless cop out.  I still don't get it, but then again, I'm not over on the DA2 boards falling all over myself to embrace change, so obviously what makes sense to me is far from the party line.

Truthfully, I've resigned myself to DA2 being what it is, so I'm willing to play it and see why they felt like this particular story needed to be told, told now, and told from Hawke's perspective - since no matter how many times the party line of "the series is all about Thedas" gets repeated, they have to have some sort of metaplot weaving all these threads together, no matter how disparate they may seem. 

I guess I just never saw myself as being so wildly outside the targeted demographic for a franchise game that I was drawn to and interested in.  But, I do have a quirk in that I like to see stories finished out or at least a little closure; not perpetual cliff hangers that fizzle out or go nowhere, only to be replaced by new cliff hangers, and so on.

See, I have no problem ending on a cliffhanger, or doing it several times but you have to actually ****ing do something with them and at least start tying up small things along the way. That's something they apparantly forgot to do after Awakening, especially with how slap-dash Witch Hunt was. 

But back to your point, I agree that it is quite disappointing that so many appear so indifferent about the Warden/Morrigan/DR (who we played or encountered only a mere 14 months ago) and so giddy about the (all I can call it is 'disruptive') direction of the franchise. 

I find it best to just avoid the DA2 forums. When you've got people there taking this apparant hatred of continuity to its logical extremes (one person said with a straight face they didn't like playing as Shepard again in ME2 - they were quite literate about it too), it's better to just duck out and let them have their echo chamber. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 14 février 2011 - 02:08 .

[MKDAWUSS]

I think what they're trying to do is create a medieval fantasy version of Star Wars (where, when taking the entire timeline into context, there really is no main character). Thing is, the Star Wars universe was built over decades.

[TheBlackBaron]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

I think what they're trying to do is create a medieval fantasy version of Star Wars (where, when taking the entire timeline into context, there really is no main character). Thing is, the Star Wars universe was built over decades.

I suppose you could look at it that way, but it's taken thirty years to build up the Expanded Universe, and not all of it (especially the post-Return of the Jedi stuff) is that good. 

Moreover, the movies all really do have one central character, telling of the rise and fall of Anaking Skywalker. 

[Grendenhal]

So there really is a continuity-hating majority out there? (I guess it I were really motivated I would go check out the DA2 boards for myself.) It just runs counter to my decades of human experience. When an entertainment product really captivates a loyal fan base, you do a sequel. The good news, from the developers' POV, is that while you'd like to always achieve the highest artistic zenith, the good will and addictiveness of your prior endeavors tides you through your clunkers. How many of us saw every single damned Star Trek movie? How many of us read every single Harry Potter book, but wouldn't rush to buy a new series by JK Rowling?



Sure, many of us will buy DA2 anyway because we can't help ourselves. But there will be a measurable negative effect. Whereas I would have long ago ordered a DA2 that gave a prominent role to Morrigan, I haven't ordered it yet. Not out of spite or some sense that my lone purchasing decision will have any impact, but because I'm swamped at work and not ready to commit to 100 hours playing a game that I'm not emotionally engaged in. If it gets rave reviews, I'll probably get it when I have time. If it gets mediocre reviews, I probably never will. Not, at least, unless and until it becomes apparent that Morrigan is in DA3 and I have to slog through DA2 to get there.



Finally, in politics and in business, you have to pay attention to single-issue voters, even if they're in the numerical minority. Are the continuity-haters really that passionate? Would they truly not buy DA2 if it brought back Morrigan and the Warden?

[Brockololly]

gurp123 wrote...
I completely agree with you, but this bittersweet cliffhanger seems to be what the devs want. It's a taunt that I just don't get, frankly. Bringing back Morrigan without the Warden will be totally unsatisfying to those who romanced her at this stage. Whereas if they truly had some closure at the end of DA or WH, then it would be fine to bring her back at some substantially later point in the story without the Warden.

Yeah, and as has been mentioned before, you've got to think that the people clamoring most for Morrigan's return are probably the same people whose Warden's went through the Eluvian with her and did the DR. So to possibly bring Morrigan back with the Warden not there or to have handwaved away the Warden, would defeat the purpose in my view of bringing Morrigan back. Obviously not in terms of whatever plot they might have in mind for Morrigan, but at least in terms of my own excitement and enthusiasm, there would be no quicker way to turn joy into WTF than announcing Morrigan is coming back...but without the Warden.

TheBlackBaron wrote...
Truthfully, I've resigned myself to DA2 being what it is, so I'm willing to play it and see why they
felt like this particular story needed to be told, told now, and told  from Hawke's perspective - since no matter how many times the party line of "the series is all about Thedas" gets repeated, they have to have  some sort of metaplot weaving all these threads together, no matter how  disparate they may seem.

Yeah, if by the end of DA2 its not somewhat clear what sort of meta plot BioWare is aiming for with DA, then they'll have a hard time keeping my interest. I have no desire for the NWN approach of tenuously glued together stories with flimsy continuity with cameos and old companions getting retconned and handwaved into effectively new characters. I just want to know if this is at all going anywhere at this point, since I have no emotional attachment to Hawke and Friends and only am interested in DA2 for the metaplot and where that leaves Morrigan/OGB/Warden.

TheBlackBaron wrote...
See, I  have no problem ending on a cliffhanger, or doing it several times but  you have to actually ****ing do something with them and at least start  tying up small things along the way. That's something they apparantly
forgot to do after Awakening, especially with how slap-dash Witch Hunt  was. 

Thats the problem really- we have no clue if the cliffhanger of the DR, OGB, what happened to the Warden, the Eluvian, Morrigan/Flemeth will ever be resolved. Or resolved in a meaningful way that plays off the player's choices. The problem starts in if DA2 ends on another cliffhanger or adds yet more loose ends. Cause then you know that the loose ends from Origins are less likely to be fulfilled as time goes on.

In a way, this reminds me a bit of GRR Martin and how A Song of Ice and Fire has left off. Great books with the first 3 with some super cliffhangers and suspense, but he churned them out like clockwork every 2 years. Then the 4th book took longer, and was of lesser quality and focused on the characters people weren't quite as interested in while ending on a big cliffhanger. And yet, its been going on 5 years with the next book seemingly in limbo and 2 more beyond that for the series to be finished.

Its different between an individual author and a big company like BioWare, but cliffhangers have a very limited shelf life and what was once anticipation and hype for the next installment will rapidly sour if that cliffhanger is never picked up and dealt with in a way thats satisfying to the people waiting.

Modifié par Brockololly, 14 février 2011 - 04:43 .

[Beren082]

I've seen flashes of what looks like Flemeth, and no matter what, she's certainly not gone. If you didn't go with the DR, she could have easily filled the roll that Morrigan was supposed to (whatever that was with the her and Warden's child). Don't get me wrong, I loved my Warden, but they're unnecessary now. besides, either they die single-handedly ending the blight, or they single-handedly end the blight and single-handedly defend the city of Amaranthine from a darkspawn army and reestablish a Grey Warden presence in Ferelden. For that person, that's a good place to push back from the table and call it a day, whether they're beyond the fade or not. Flemeth has unfinished business, Morrigan has unfinished business, The child most certainly has a destiny. These are my major concerns. beyond that, I can simply fantasize about my Warden and Morrigan living at least some time in peace, outside the world.

[Tylantt]

I don't mean to change the subject but I have a slight problem with a morri convo that is preventing me from getting my perfect save done for DA2.

I just entered the gates at denerim during the final mission in Origins, when you get the convo where everyone says their goodbyes it skips morri and says "quest updated" Literally skips morri. everyone starts talking to me, then I get to Alister, after I say goodbye to him the whole scene ends. Also, if I talk to morri again it acts as if I already talked to her during the goodbye.

Modifié par Tylantt, 14 février 2011 - 05:57 .

[TheBlackBaron]

^ Posted on the Dragon Age Facebook page. I lol'd. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 14 février 2011 - 06:03 .

[Jarlof Seoul]

TheBlackBaron wrote...



^ Posted on the Dragon Age Facebook page. I lol'd. 

I like it. Reminds me of my Warden, without the beard.

[Lord_Anthonior]

In consideration of the day, We all Know that Morrigan never actually say "I love you" to the Warden, just "My love". One way or another...the subconcious always wins. :happy:



By: Ximena

[Brockololly]

Tylantt wrote...

I don't mean to change the subject but I have a slight problem with a morri convo that is preventing me from getting my perfect save done for DA2.

I just entered the gates at denerim during the final mission in Origins, when you get the convo where everyone says their goodbyes it skips morri and says "quest updated" Literally skips morri. everyone starts talking to me, then I get to Alister, after I say goodbye to him the whole scene ends. Also, if I talk to morri again it acts as if I already talked to her during the goodbye.

Hmmm...I have never had that happen. For a while before one of the patches, Wynne was always skipped in the goodbyes part, but never Morrigan. I don't think that should really affect anything though in terms of plot flags, so long as you're able to still talk with her that last time after the goodbyes.

TheBlackBaron wrote...



^ Posted on the Dragon Age Facebook page. I lol'd. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

Haha thats great!

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

In consideration of the day, We  all Know that Morrigan never actually say "I love you" to the Warden,  just "My love". One way or another...the subconcious always wins. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie]

Great work as always by Ximena!


Kind of interesting, one of my friends got Origins recently and he got the strategy guide with it and I was flipping through it and there is this, what appears to be Origins concept art of Flemeth it would seem. I had never seen it before but its kind of interesting to see how they maybe had originally designed her looking more sort of tribal looking:


And then I stumbled along this in the guide which is Origins concept art, with clearly  the concept art versions of Oghren, Alistair, Leliana and Zevran. Is the mage in the center maybe a really early concept art version of Morrigan? Or just some generic mage? Kind of interesting, I thought:

Modifié par Brockololly, 14 février 2011 - 11:14 .

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Kind of interesting, one of my friends got Origins recently and he got the strategy guide with it and I was flipping through it and there is this, what appears to be Origins concept art of Flemeth it would seem. I had never seen it before but its kind of interesting to see how they maybe had originally designed her looking more sort of tribal looking:

Interesting indeed. I wish she actually looked like that in Origins.

Brockololly wrote...

And then I stumbled along this in the guide which is Origins concept art, with clearly  the concept art versions of Oghren, Alistair, Leliana and Zevran. Is the mage in the center maybe a really early concept art version of Morrigan? Or just some generic mage? Kind of interesting, I thought:

Actually, that's the cover for Dragon Age tabletop RPG.

And it may well be early concept art for Origins. Alistair looks more like his early version that got scraped. Leliana was also originaly envisioned as a warrior, so I guess that explains the shield. Zevran also looks like his original concept art.

As for Morrigan, I greatly prefer the way she looks in SA trailer and ingame. Her version on that cover seems so.. generic wild mage. With that look she seems more at home in D&D than Dragon Age.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 14 février 2011 - 11:28 .

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...
Actually, that's the cover for Dragon Age tabletop RPG.

And it may well be early concept art for Origins. Alistair looks more like his early version that got scraped. Leliana was also originaly envisioned as a warrior, so I guess that explains the shield. Zevran also looks like his original concept art.

As for Morrigan, I greatly prefer the way she looks in SA trailer and ingame. Her version on that cover seems so.. generic wild mage. With that look she seems more at home in D&D than Dragon Age.

Yeah, I got that picture from the Origins guide though it is the cover of the pen and paper game too. So especially given that Alistair, Leliana, Zevran and Oghren are almost identical to their Origins concept art, I think thats something they made for Origins.

And then you have the original Origins trailer, the one they put out at the end of 2008 before the Marilyn Manson stuff started when Origins was PC only. If you go to about 45 seconds you see that maybe Morrigan mage again:



I prefer how Morrigan ended up in game, but its kind of interesting nevertheless to see how it might have turned out. I almost wish DA2 adopted the style of Origins concept art...




Oh, and lets hope BioWare doesn't retcon and handwave Morrigan like they have Anders, since...yeah, they've made Anders a cannibal. Basically, one of the reasons I had my Wardens go with Morrigan through the Eluvian is so she wouldn't do something rash and stupid like Anders did, but I fear BioWare will simply handwave away the Warden to push some similar 180 character change on Morrigan.

Modifié par Brockololly, 15 février 2011 - 01:05 .

[MKDAWUSS]

Brockololly wrote...

Oh, and lets hope BioWare doesn't retcon and handwave Morrigan like they have Anders, since...yeah, they've made Anders a cannibal.

I guess it's going to be just like Oghren re: Awakenings - I'm going to miss the old character more.

If he's the other romance option, it's going to be a tough decision for my female Hawke...

[TheBlackBaron]

Brockololly wrote...

Oh, and lets hope BioWare doesn't retcon and handwave Morrigan like they have Anders, since...yeah, they've made Anders a cannibal. Basically, one of the reasons I had my Wardens go with Morrigan through the Eluvian is so she wouldn't do something rash and stupid like Anders did, but I fear BioWare will simply handwave away the Warden to push some similar 180 character change on Morrigan.

I wouldn't call it a retcon or handwave just yet, since we don't know his full story between Awakening and DA2 yet - only that he allows Justice to inhabit him and that goes catastrohpically bad for both of them. 

Plus, it's evident from the epilogues that the Warden generally had quite a bit less influence on the character development of the Awakening companions than the Origins companions. 

[MKDAWUSS]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Oh, and lets hope BioWare doesn't retcon and handwave Morrigan like they have Anders, since...yeah, they've made Anders a cannibal. Basically, one of the reasons I had my Wardens go with Morrigan through the Eluvian is so she wouldn't do something rash and stupid like Anders did, but I fear BioWare will simply handwave away the Warden to push some similar 180 character change on Morrigan.

I wouldn't call it a retcon or handwave just yet, since we don't know his full story between Awakening and DA2 yet - only that he allows Justice to inhabit him and that goes catastrohpically bad for both of them.

There's a definite railroading though. In all my Awakening runs, I told Justice to take a hike, and he became the Guardian of the Blackmarsh. It's plausible that Anders made a return trip to the Blackmarsh or something where the two then met, but I think that the chances of him returning there aren't very likely.
Another possibility would be if Kristoff and Anders met while both were (presumably in the city of Amaranthine rather than Vigil's Keep) in Amaranthine, and Justice found something there, but the likelihood of him finding something worth pursuing would be slim at best.

Plus, it's evident from the epilogues that the Warden generally had quite a bit less influence on the character development of the Awakening companions than the Origins companions.

True. Really the only leading impact he had was who might have died. There was Sigrun staying at the Warden's side and Oghren sending letters to his kid, and Nathaniel restoring his family's honor, but that was really about it.

[Brockololly]

TheBlackBaron wrote..
I wouldn't call it a retcon or handwave just yet, since we don't know his full story between Awakening and DA2 yet - only that he allows Justice to inhabit him and that goes catastrohpically bad for both of them. 

Plus, it's evident from the epilogues that the Warden generally had quite a bit less influence on the character development of the Awakening companions than the Origins companions. 

Yeah, I guess. I just have a hard time seeing Anders let Justice take over like that, given his desire for freedom and all. Its just kind of like the Architect making a boneheaded decision trying to awake Urthemiel and going all wrong. Like you couldn't see that coming? Ugh. Maybe it'll turn out interesting...in any event, I'd guess Flemeth is involved in Anders' side of things now.

Its just that with the Warden potentially around in Eluvian land, it would be harder in my view for BioWare to justify some similar character change on Morrigan...unless of course they got the Warden out of the picture.


And now some Morrigan for Valentine's Day:wub:

[revan11exile]

NICE pic brock