16183 réponses à ce sujet

[TheBlackBaron]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

There's a definite railroading though. In all my Awakening runs, I told Justice to take a hike, and he became the Guardian of the Blackmarsh. It's plausible that Anders made a return trip to the Blackmarsh or something where the two then met, but I think that the chances of him returning there aren't very likely.
Another possibility would be if Kristoff and Anders met while both were (presumably in the city of Amaranthine rather than Vigil's Keep) in Amaranthine, and Justice found something there, but the likelihood of him finding something worth pursuing would be slim at best.

tbh, MK, I don't really mind Bioware operating under the assumption that most people recruited all the companions and going forward from there. I can understand where you're coming from, though. 

I do agree, there is a bit of railroading going on there, but tracks are not always bad. Otherwise it's very difficult to actually advance the story along. The Awakening comapnions are quite a bit more conducive to this, both because the Warden spent less time and has less influence with them, and because they are on the whole less beloved than the Origins mates. Bioware's not infringing on as many post-game fantasies by bringing Anders and Justice back. 

That could just the part of me that gets continually exasperated over the crocodile tears of people claiming they can't possibly continue with the story of the Warden or Morrigan (because they sent her away at Lothering and their Warden is either dead or happily married to Leliana running a muffin shop in Val Royeaux or something) talking, though, so...yeah.  

True. Really the only leading impact he had was who might have died. There was Sigrun staying at the Warden's side and Oghren sending letters to his kid, and Nathaniel restoring his family's honor, but that was really about it.

Right, and you also have to take into account that in all epilogues the Warden eventually dissappears (or otherwise leaves the post at Vigil's Keep), so sh/e already has little permanent connection to them anyway. 

[TheBlackBaron]

Brockololly wrote...

Yeah, I guess. I just have a hard time seeing Anders let Justice take over like that, given his desire for freedom and all. Its just kind of like the Architect making a boneheaded decision trying to awake Urthemiel and going all wrong. Like you couldn't see that coming? Ugh. Maybe it'll turn out interesting...in any event, I'd guess Flemeth is involved in Anders' side of things now.

Its just that with the Warden potentially around in Eluvian land, it would be harder in my view for BioWare to justify some similar character change on Morrigan...unless of course they got the Warden out of the picture.


And now some Morrigan for Valentine's Day:wub:

I was going to respond to the words, but something else distracted me. 

[Jarlof Seoul]

Brockololly wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote..
I wouldn't call it a retcon or handwave just yet, since we don't know his full story between Awakening and DA2 yet - only that he allows Justice to inhabit him and that goes catastrohpically bad for both of them. 

Plus, it's evident from the epilogues that the Warden generally had quite a bit less influence on the character development of the Awakening companions than the Origins companions. 

Yeah, I guess. I just have a hard time seeing Anders let Justice take over like that, given his desire for freedom and all. Its just kind of like the Architect making a boneheaded decision trying to awake Urthemiel and going all wrong. Like you couldn't see that coming? Ugh. Maybe it'll turn out interesting...in any event, I'd guess Flemeth is involved in Anders' side of things now.

Its just that with the Warden potentially around in Eluvian land, it would be harder in my view for BioWare to justify some similar character change on Morrigan...unless of course they got the Warden out of the picture.


And now some Morrigan for Valentine's Day:wub:

 very nice

[Jarlof Seoul]

Morrigan Fan Club/Fellow Morri Romancers and DA fans,



I am seeing some potential spoilers for DA2. In anticipation of the demo coming out and the general release of the game, I am going to exercise some serious willpower by abstaining from this discussion group as well as DA/DA2 website until my first completion of DA2. That should be around Mid-March at the earliest. I really enjoy the discussions in this thread. Nothing against anyone here. On the contrary, I feel a connection with fellow Morrigan fans. So to maximize my DA2 experience, especially any hints of things to come beyond DA2 in relation to Morrigan or possibly another major letdown if EA leave us hanging regarding Morrigan's future, in the words of Gen McArthur: "I shall return." Jarlof will be back to this thread this Spring. Thanks to all for your posts and making this thread as enjoyable as it has been through Awakening disappointments and the pivotal WH riding into the sunset with some of our Wardens' girl, the one, the only, the irreplaceable Morrigan. See y'all later in the Spring!

[Master Shiori]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Oh, and lets hope BioWare doesn't retcon and handwave Morrigan like they have Anders, since...yeah, they've made Anders a cannibal. Basically, one of the reasons I had my Wardens go with Morrigan through the Eluvian is so she wouldn't do something rash and stupid like Anders did, but I fear BioWare will simply handwave away the Warden to push some similar 180 character change on Morrigan.

I wouldn't call it a retcon or handwave just yet, since we don't know his full story between Awakening and DA2 yet - only that he allows Justice to inhabit him and that goes catastrohpically bad for both of them. 

Plus, it's evident from the epilogues that the Warden generally had quite a bit less influence on the character development of the Awakening companions than the Origins companions. 

I share TheBlackBaron's thoughts on this.

Also, in that story, Anders is possessed by Vengence when killing all those templars. You can hardly call it a retcon when a demon takes control of your body and goes on a ramapage, while you're nothing more than a helpless observer.
The change to Anders in DA2 is quite drastic and not something I see them pulling again soon or lightly. Having Morrigan go through the same ordeal just to implement some change into her character would be extremely lazy on the writers part.

[KnightofPhoenix]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
And now some Morrigan for Valentine's Day:wub:

I was going to respond to the words, but something else distracted me. 

The thighs.....sorry what?

[MKDAWUSS]

Master Shiori wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Oh, and lets hope BioWare doesn't retcon and handwave Morrigan like they have Anders, since...yeah, they've made Anders a cannibal. Basically, one of the reasons I had my Wardens go with Morrigan through the Eluvian is so she wouldn't do something rash and stupid like Anders did, but I fear BioWare will simply handwave away the Warden to push some similar 180 character change on Morrigan.

I wouldn't call it a retcon or handwave just yet, since we don't know his full story between Awakening and DA2 yet - only that he allows Justice to inhabit him and that goes catastrohpically bad for both of them. 

Plus, it's evident from the epilogues that the Warden generally had quite a bit less influence on the character development of the Awakening companions than the Origins companions. 

I share TheBlackBaron's thoughts on this.

Also, in that story, Anders is possessed by Vengence when killing all those templars. You can hardly call it a retcon when a demon takes control of your body and goes on a ramapage, while you're nothing more than a helpless observer.
The change to Anders in DA2 is quite drastic and not something I see them pulling again soon or lightly. Having Morrigan go through the same ordeal just to implement some change into her character would be extremely lazy on the writers part.

I just hope it's not going to be a drawn out Connor Guerrin...

[TheBlackBaron]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

I share TheBlackBaron's thoughts on this.

Also, in that story, Anders is possessed by Vengence when killing all those templars. You can hardly call it a retcon when a demon takes control of your body and goes on a ramapage, while you're nothing more than a helpless observer.
The change to Anders in DA2 is quite drastic and not something I see them pulling again soon or lightly. Having Morrigan go through the same ordeal just to implement some change into her character would be extremely lazy on the writers part.

I just hope it's not going to be a drawn out Connor Guerrin...

Oh, I doubt it will. 

For one, instead of Alistair chewing you out over the situation, Mage Alistair will BE the situation. 

This is really just a poorly disguised bump from the second page. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 16 février 2011 - 02:10 .

[Brockololly]

Jarlof Seoul wrote...

Morrigan Fan Club/Fellow Morri Romancers and DA fans,

I am seeing some potential spoilers for DA2. In anticipation of the demo coming out and the general release of the game, I am going to exercise some serious willpower by abstaining from this discussion group as well as DA/DA2 website until my first completion of DA2. That should be around Mid-March at the earliest. I really enjoy the discussions in this thread. Nothing against anyone here. On the contrary, I feel a connection with fellow Morrigan fans. So to maximize my DA2 experience, especially any hints of things to come beyond DA2 in relation to Morrigan or possibly another major letdown if EA leave us hanging regarding Morrigan's future, in the words of Gen McArthur: "I shall return." Jarlof will be back to this thread this Spring. Thanks to all for your posts and making this thread as enjoyable as it has been through Awakening disappointments and the pivotal WH riding into the sunset with some of our Wardens' girl, the one, the only, the irreplaceable Morrigan. See y'all later in the Spring!

See you later!

I lack the willpower to stay away. Although at least once more reviews come out and the game ends up out in the wild with true spoilers coming out, I'll go into hiding until I've finished the game. I still remember before Awakening came out, some guy came on here ranting how the ending was just some incredibly stupid scene of the Warden stabbing an insane broodmother in teh face after you could kill/spare the Architect and then it just faded to black. Surely that guy couldn't have been right! *cut to playing Awakening, complete with bugged Morrigan epilogue slide* "Whaaaaaaaaat?"

Master Shiori wrote...
Also, in that story, Anders is possessed by Vengence when killing all those  templars. You can hardly call it a retcon when a demon takes control of  your body and goes on a ramapage, while you're nothing more than a  helpless observer. The change to Anders in DA2 is quite drastic and  not something I see them pulling again soon or lightly. Having Morrigan  go through the same ordeal just to implement some change into her  character would be extremely lazy on the writers part.

Yeah, I guess its not a retcon necessarily, but even after reading the Awakening Justice/Anders banters, I still have a hard time buying into Anders letting Justice tag along inside him with the thought of going on some anti Chantry killing spree. Anders in Awakening was simply concerned with his well being with respect to being a mage, not some crusader out to liberate every mage. He just wanted individual freedom to be left alone with  "a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools."

They can certainly chalk up a shift in character to time and events changing someone, although I find that sort of cheap when its used as a primary means of character development. My concern would be if they do something similar with Morrigan in the sense that maybe they don't have her become an abomination, but they chalk up some alteration of her character to some time jump. Especially if your Warden went along with her, possibly sticking with her to be some sort of influence on her.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
And now some Morrigan for Valentine's Day[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

The thighs.....sorry what? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

The world needs more hot Morrigan leg action- she's always got them all covered up:P



And some super high res Morrigan:

Modifié par Brockololly, 16 février 2011 - 03:20 .

[Glorfindel709]

Morrigan... legs... thighs..wha?



Oh hello. Seems I finally wandered into this thread at just the right time...

[MKDAWUSS]

Brockololly wrote...

They can certainly chalk up a shift in character to time and events changing someone, although I find that sort of cheap when its used as a primary means of character development. My concern would be if they do something similar with Morrigan in the sense that maybe they don't have her become an abomination, but they chalk up some alteration of her character to some time jump. Especially if your Warden went along with her, possibly sticking with her to be some sort of influence on her.

And then the worst part is going to be when they remind you that they're not your characters and therefore have no say-so whatsoever on their development...

[Brockololly]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Morrigan... legs... thighs..wha?

Oh hello. Seems I finally wandered into this thread at just the right time...

Its always the right time for Morrigan legs/thighs:wizard:

MKDAWUSS wrote...
And then the worst part is going to be when they remind you that they're  not your characters and therefore have no say-so whatsoever on their  development...

On that note, Gaider commented on the whole handwaving of epilogues in this thread, responding in turn:

David Gaider wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
The only thing that I'm not too keen on if all the epilogues are treated as fair game to handwaving is that in Origins/Awakening, most of the consequences for your choices came via the epilogue slides.

Of course not. Like I said, not all choices carry forward, and of those  that do not all are equal. We don't deliberately set out to contradict  everything you read in the epilogues. Even rumor and hearsay has to have some truth to it. The fact that not all events didn't turn out like you'd heard doesn't suddenly render up down and black white.

I can understand some of the more long term ones being ignored for the time  being, but even in Witch Hunt, I was a little disappointed how in every  Origins epilogue for Morrigan she heads west across the Frostbacks or  even ends up in the Orlesian court, and yet WH takes place back in  Ferelden.

Perhaps she did head there, and came back. Or she could head there again. Hearing rumors that Morrigan was spotted in Orlais doesn't mean that no other events could possibly have  happened.

As long as the  explanations are decent with respect to the handwaving and it makes for a better story, thats all I can hope for... although I still want to know what all of the Wardens "vanishing" at the end of Awakening meant

That may indeed come up. Some things are explained, some things are not. I  think some people are always going to hold every last detail, no matter  how vague, as a sacred cow-- and thus attempts on our part to explain
aren't going to satisfy them anyhow. I don't think we're too worried about it, and I'll leave it at that.

Modifié par Brockololly, 16 février 2011 - 03:44 .

[Glorfindel709]

@Brock - So true. I dunno why I haven't been in here before, there are other Morrigan lovers, KoP, and Morrigan artwork!

[TheBlackBaron]

Brockololly wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
Also, in that story, Anders is possessed by Vengence when killing all those  templars. You can hardly call it a retcon when a demon takes control of  your body and goes on a ramapage, while you're nothing more than a  helpless observer. The change to Anders in DA2 is quite drastic and  not something I see them pulling again soon or lightly. Having Morrigan  go through the same ordeal just to implement some change into her  character would be extremely lazy on the writers part.

Yeah, I guess its not a retcon necessarily, but even after reading the Awakening Justice/Anders banters, I still have a hard time buying into Anders letting Justice tag along inside him with the thought of going on some anti Chantry killing spree. Anders in Awakening was simply concerned with his well being with respect to being a mage, not some crusader out to liberate every mage. He just wanted individual freedom to be left alone with  "a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools."

They can certainly chalk up a shift in character to time and events changing someone, although I find that sort of cheap when its used as a primary means of character development. My concern would be if they do something similar with Morrigan in the sense that maybe they don't have her become an abomination, but they chalk up some alteration of her character to some time jump. Especially if your Warden went along with her, possibly sticking with her to be some sort of influence on her.

I don't think their current situation is quite what Anders or Justice intended to happen. The way I understand it, at some point Anders agreed to led Justice cohabit his body, and then his monsters from the Id (figuratively speaking) boiled to the surface and the excrement hit the oscillations. It was more or less inadvertant that Justice turned into a demon and Anders now has to deal with that. 

The only thing I don't have an explanation for is why Anders agreed, although I do have a few ideas on that.

In any event, I share your concerns over what Bioware might do offscreen, but I don't think they intend for that to be their primary method of moving character along. 

The world needs more hot Morrigan leg action- she's always got them all covered up:P.

Oh yes. Yes indeed. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Speaking of Morrigan legs

[Lord_Anthonior]

Continuing speaking of Morrigan's legs though with Leliana included.


by: Lilithblack

Modifié par Lord_Anthonior, 16 février 2011 - 01:17 .

[Brockololly]

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Continuing speaking of Morrigan's legs though with Leliana included.


by: Lilithblack

Hawaii Morrigan dancing in the background always cracks me up:lol:

[TheBlackBaron]

Brockololly wrote...
Hawaii Morrigan dancing in the background always cracks me up:lol:

Same. 

...I bet you could mod that into the game, right? 

[gurp123]

Brockololly wrote...


Yeah, I guess its not a retcon necessarily, but even after reading the Awakening Justice/Anders banters, I still have a hard time buying into Anders letting Justice tag along inside him with the thought of going on some anti Chantry killing spree. Anders in Awakening was simply concerned with his well being with respect to being a mage, not some crusader out to liberate every mage. He just wanted individual freedom to be left alone with  "a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools."

They can certainly chalk up a shift in character to time and events changing someone, although I find that sort of cheap when its used as a primary means of character development. My concern would be if they do something similar with Morrigan in the sense that maybe they don't have her become an abomination, but they chalk up some alteration of her character to some time jump. Especially if your Warden went along with her, possibly sticking with her to be some sort of influence on her.

Post Deus Depression? (forgive my Latin). Or perhaps day care was too expensive and she just couldn't get out of the house.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Continuing speaking of Morrigan's legs though with Leliana included.

Morrigan's are better.

Interesting art



I would prefer if the OGB doesn't look like that, but looks like a human (a good looking one with yellow eyes), who can turn into his dragon form at will. But interesting.

[Axekix]

Clawed wings on an infant? Labor must've been interesting...

[KnightofPhoenix]

Axekix wrote...

Clawed wings on an infant? Labor must've been interesting...

Well Morrigan does look exhausted and almost mentally scarred...

[Axekix]

Poor Morri... After an ordeal like that, she probably won't let the M.Warden near her again.

[Lord_Anthonior]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Continuing speaking of Morrigan's legs though with Leliana included.

Morrigan's are better.

No Argument there.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Interesting art



I would prefer if the OGB doesn't look like that, but looks like a human (a good looking one with yellow eyes), who can turn into his dragon form at will. But interesting.

The problem would be once the baby learn how to fly, try catching him without using a net . Though it does look interesting the baby drawn into Morrigan's concept art.

[Glorfindel709]

All the pictures of Morrigans' legs =D



Gah where was I..... oh yeah, the OGB looks interesting but can you imagine how difficult it is for him to make friends? "Mother, I'm the only Draconic Boy in the entire village! Why am I so different from everyone else?!"