16183 réponses à ce sujet

[TheBlackBaron]

Should also add, the new music I heard was -very- nice. The music that plays over the launcher is a worthy successor to the original main theme (In Uthenera or whatever it was called).

[Swoo]

One - Bethany does not exist in a vacuum. When you add the hell-forged mixture that is Carver into it, Bethany is a shining beacon of hope and sanity in the world of  personal companions in a High Fantasy Gothic Bleak-Bleak World.

Two - The graphics look nice. I expected horrid after the Hot Rod Samurai comment, but they look like a good modder redid Origins. It won't compete with Skyrim, Blizzard, or even the Witcher from what we've seen, but overall they look....nice.

Three - Isabela's look shouldn't surprise anyone. It's textbook 'Female Pirate' that we've seen for years, from just about every Dungeons and Dragons drawing of a female rogue, to Joe Madureira, to Halloween costumes. My main gripe is the metal on the face and ears, it keeps distracting me when she talks because it pulls the eyes focus away from the character, at least for me I could just be crazy or have spent too much time obsessing over colors in the studio. I had the same reaction with Morrigan though and the heavy makeup until the Australian accent hit and I was like 'Say whatever you want Aeryn Sun'.

I like the Bioware 101 though, I had a similar thought. Odds on her getting a boat and ditching you in the middle of the night, never to be seen again but felt thanks to a magical barnicle left in your possession?

blademaster7 wrote...

I must be the only one who didn't like Bethany. She looks good, but I hate her voice. As for Isabella.... I didn't mind her in Origins and i don't mind that she's a companion now. I just hate how she looks. Who in the blue hell designed her?

Master Shiori wrote...
Mike Laidlaw said that you really need to get her to open up to truly understand what she's all about.

I can see it right now. She's all about casual sex at the beggining but deep down she's afraid of getting commited. She gives you a little quest (that has to do with that terrible, terrible past of hers) and when you finish it she understands what true love is all about.

Bioware 101. Sorry couldn't resist.

Joking aside, your post was very informative Shiori. I haven't been following the news and I had the same questions as swoo. Thanks.

Oh... and

Swoo wrote...

*Graphics are nice.

Wut?

Modifié par Swoo, 23 février 2011 - 11:57 .

[blademaster7]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Should also add, the new music I
heard was -very- nice. The music that plays over the launcher is a
worthy successor to the original main theme (In Uthenera or whatever it
was called).

One of the things I didn't like in DAO was the
music. It was forgettable. The exception being the party camp music(that
also plays during Duncan's death). I know, 40 minutes of Demo are not
enough to judge but they didn't seem to improve much in this area.

Swoo wrote...
Two - The graphics look nice. I expected horrid after the Hot Rod Samurai comment, but they look like a good modder redid Origins. It won't compete with Skyrim, Blizzard, or even the Witcher from what we've seen, but overall they look....nice.

The graphics aren't horrid by any stretch of the imagination but they are not spectacular either. Mass Effect 2 is a great looking game. I don't understand how could they copy just about everything from ME2 and not try to mimic the graphics...

And by the way, Morrigan is sooo last year. Get with the times people. It's all about pirate chicks with breast implants now.

[Brockololly]

blademaster7 wrote...

And by the way, Morrigan is sooo last year. Get with the times people. It's all about pirate chicks with breast implants now.

Shapeshifting Swamp Witch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pirate with EEE's tacked on her chest and a butt that makes Miranda's from ME2 look small




Oh, and I won't sully the thread with my wall of text impressions from the demo, but I posted them here FWIW.

Modifié par Brockololly, 24 février 2011 - 12:46 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

I played the demo and I didn't get to hear Flemeth say anything about Morrigan. What does she say?

[Swoo]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I played the demo and I didn't get to hear Flemeth say anything about Morrigan. What does she say?

One line when you tell her it's a good idea, she says if you knew her daughter you'd know how very little she hears that.

So, nothing really. Just a little, tiny bone that says 'Hey, we are part of this franchise!'

[Swoo]

Brockololly wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

And by the way, Morrigan is sooo last year. Get with the times people. It's all about pirate chicks with breast implants now.

Shapeshifting Swamp Witch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pirate with EEE's tacked on her chest and a butt that makes Miranda's from ME2 look small




Oh, and I won't sully the thread with my wall of text impressions from the demo, but I posted them here FWIW.

No way. Someone, somewhere will say something just slightly negative towards the demo and a flock will descend to set him upon the 'right' path, probably seeing a 'lol stfu and just play' or the like somewhere within. No thanks. You can repost here if you want.

Haven't tried it as an archer yet for the guy who posted up a bit, but trying it out as melee and I think I'm killing them with the threat of my sword more than the sword itself? Is that it? I swing at the air and the air kills you as it tries to escape? And I don't know what they make these 2Hers out of, but I'm ticked Lothering was holding back on me when I came into town. These things have to weigh like two pounds, max.

[blademaster7]

So Flemeth's appointment is the Warden? Lothering gets destroyed right after you finish a part of the main quest. If you did the mage tower then you can give the grimoire to Morrigan and start the quest. Do you think we'll learn more about what happened to Flemeth?

PS: The possibility of not triggering the quest is gonna get hand-waved

PS2: Gotta love brock's review. He posts three sentences for "the good" and an entire essay of "bads". He also made sure to point out the negatives on the things he liked. Good to have you around buddy.

Modifié par blademaster7, 24 février 2011 - 01:17 .

[MKDAWUSS]

TheBlackBaron wrote...
I particularly liked Isabella's new model. IMHO, it fits her character concept much, much better than her Origins one.

The model is a lot better, but I think they should have kept her features the same. At least a bit more believable that the Origins Izzy is the same as the DA2 Izzy.

Sure, she was a minor character, but consistency is consistency.


... at least we know that Hawke wasn't any of the bit characters the Warden (and Morrigan, Alistair, Sten and Leliana) talked to.

[Terra_Ex]

I'll post a bunch of Morri stuff first so we can pretend we're still on topic and it'd be rude not to respond to Morri related posts[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]


[quote]Swoo wrote...
I'll see if I can get the Xeno games, I really should play them all the way through. I liked the story well enough, and the graphics and production values seemed tops for the time, but I'd like to sink into another great Sci-Fi RPG. I've been so desperate I've been thinking of dragging Phantasy Star out of the woodwork. Generations of Doom, that's where it's at!

With Gears/Saga, any hints towards Bart? Always liked him the best
[/quote]
Absolutely nothing regarding Bart, I'm afraid. There is a big nod towards the Fei/Elly reincarnations shown in XenoGears in XS3 though. Generations of Doom... was that number 3? I know I liked Phantasy Star 2 (but it was damn hard back in the day) and loved PS4. I don't recall enjoying the third entry though so you must be pretty desperate [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Anyway, back on topic:

[quote]Grendenhal wrote...
But that's the thing:  this go around -- which may be in dialogue restored by the Mod, I don't know -- she very clearly says that she values friendship more.  She says that other men have lusted after her and even told her they loved her, but this is the first time she realized that true friendship with a man was even possible.  She may not always be worthy of the Warden's friendship, but she will always value it.[/quote]
She doesn't, she's saying she values (or has come to value) true friendship over NSA sex, but that genuine friendship is something that's quite foreign to her. There's shades of Flemeth's upbringing of her in there and the implication that the confessions of love were made with intent to bed her, hence her confusion over why the warden is helping her without expecting something back. If the warden develops a romantic relationship with her and brings it to love, I'd say that's a deeper bond than friendship, just that she doesn't know how to deal with it, something which she expounds upon late in the game iirc.

Anyway, that dialogue can branch two ways, if you haven't romanced her to that point, she'll ask if there could ever be anything more between you. If you have romanced her and broke it off or are female, you'll get the friendship branch. I don't think either particularly outweighs the other and the romance exchange at the Denerim gates would easily be the equal of the final friendship discussion imo. You should read some of the VO notes in the toolset if you want a better understanding of some of those scenes. As I mentioned earlier, following the full friendship path, then switching to romance during that conversation seems to give you the most genuinely changed Morrigan, rather than rushing to romance her asap.


[quote]Grendenhal wrote...
Having read the epic posts of Brock, Terra, and others the past few days, I'm curious what you think is (a) possible, and ( acceptable in DA3 for Morri fans.  I take it that Warden as PC and Morri as a companion picking up from the Eluvian is not realistic? But Warden as a possible companion or independent character also seems unlikely, doesn't it (and I would argue, unsatisfying in any event)?
[/quote]
The former would be the ideal, but expect a flood of tears of Noah's Ark proportions if they decided to revive the US warden, even if there was decent grounding for it and a unique questline/intro to the game for those that chose that, it would still be akin to tearing the very fabric of lore-space asunder... or so I've been told. So yeah, that most likely won't happen, it'd be interesting to see how they were thinking of bringing dead wardens back as well as the disappearance slide, but yeah...

Warden/Morrigan as NPCs is perfectly workable provided neither are recruitable, it requires comparatively little effort and would provide a nice variation to Morrigan's arc. Certainly not as satisfying as reprising your role as the warden in a future title, but with the way things are going it seems better to me than a codex entry or slight dialogue variation before returning to an on the rails one size fits all approach. I'd probably be annoyed if Morrigan was recruitable and we weren't playing as the warden for a multitude of reasons I've gone over before. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sleeping.png[/smilie]

[quote]Grendenhal wrote...
I suppose the difficulty may have come if Bioware was committed to treating equally Morri-lovers, Morr-haters, and  Morri-couldn't-give-a-damners.  Bioware could have easily had Morrigan and Warden team up in the beginning to hunt the Eluvian, with some satisfying, informative, plot-advancing dialogue along the way, but that wouldn't work for anyone other than Morri-lovers.  But who else was the DLC really for?
[/quote]
The difficulty here though is that when the warden and Morrigan meet again, that's a big moment, to resolve that (considering all the possible ways it could play out) early in a DLC AND then continue on with a huge chunk of gameplay/plot progression with her as a companion... I think the DLC could only have ended on a low note as there wouldn't be a climax to speak of.

[quote]Grendenhal wrote...
At the least, it would have cost Bioware little to expand the scene at the end with some better dialogue and more information.  I think the feeling of emptiness that many of us felt would have been much less with a few more answers. After all, once Morrigan (suddenly and with little resistance) decides to take the Warden with her, he's going to find everything out anyway.  Would it have hurt to share a little info before they went through the mirror?[/quote]
I'd have loved a lengthier scene, we all would but I think you can tell from the way the dialogue flowed that there was probably a strict line limit in force there. On your second point, it's one of those things where you can infer that over time, Morrigan regrets (at least partially) how she left things with a romantically involved warden and though she'd never admit it, is pleased on some level they've tracked her down and stated they want to be with her and OGB (though the cloud of doom naturally hangs on the horizon). This ties in with the ring epilogue slides & Morri's comments regarding it - point being, you can have character development off-screen like that if there's a logical pre-existing grounding for it.

[quote]Grendenhal wrote...
To go back to Leliana's Song, yes, that didn't advance the plot at all, but it allowed Leli fans to live through (a version of) the defining moment in her life.  That was meaningful and fun, and deepened her as a character.  On my second playthrough of DAO, I can tell you that I'm much more influenced by LS in how I view Leli than I am by WH in how I view Morri.[/quote]
And WH allowed a condensed version of the search for Morrigan, a similar parallel to the retconned recollection of Lel's past. Both have distinct failings, as does the entire suite of post-Origins content. I enjoyed LS, but there was barely a part of it that I hadn't already pictured happening myself (albeit in Orlais) and given a period of reflection on it, it didn't really deepen her character imo. The other thing to consider is some Origins companions are superfluous the core plot and overarching plots, Leliana can be bypassed completely, Morri can't and as such has to retain some mystery as she has links with other ongoing plotlines.

[quote]Grendenhal wrote...
The ideal would have been a Warden-Morrigan sequel that provided answers and satisfying closure.  We got nothing close to that.  It's entirely subjective and hypothetical, and probably meaningless, but given what we actually got in WH, I still suppose I would rather have had a  Morrigan DLC that deepened our understanding of her than five minutes of marginal plot advancement that felt very perfunctory.[/quote]
Compared with say the Origins ending where the warden essentially does nothing regarding Morrigan's departure except feel sorry for himself, or the Awakening slide where he follows her (but leaving the player wondering (at the time) if anything will ever come of it because Hawke was the be all and end all after DA2's reveal). In some ways, you could say WH makes it worse (if they don't follow it up in some way) but it's probably a more desirable place to leave a romancing warden (for now) than endlessly searching, at least imo. And since Morri has something of a loner, self-sufficient attitude, a Morrigan-centric DLC in the styling of LS wouldn't work imo. The barriers are there for a reason and require a character like the warden if the hard outer shell persona is to function.


Now that sappy stuff is out of the way... [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]


[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
The dialogue wheel might remind you of ME, but the way dialogue is written and spoken by characters is still the same as in Origins. Except now, you don't click on a full sentence but rather on a paraphrase which comes with a convenient icon to show your intent. The dialogue choices in Origins were exactly the same, except they were written as full sentences without the intent icon and the wheel. You can still choose the same dialogue options as you could before. It's just that now it requires less reading on your part.
[/quote]
To be honest Shiori, the implementation of the wheel and paraphrasing is my single greatest criticism of the demo. No other part of it irritated me to the same extent, if I could see exactly what Hawke was about to say, I'd be a damn sight happier about it.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
I admit they were quite generous with Izzy in the chest department. In fact, a bit too much for a character that's envisioned as a agile rogue doing backflips.
But going for her clothing and general look, I'd say they did a good job. She actually looks like a pirate this time around. The lack of pants and her choice of clothing were explained quite nicely in that small story released on BSN: "I would have dressed properly for you, but all my polite clothes ended at the bottom of the ocean.[/quote]
I'll agree with this, if only because Isabela looked like a bit of a travesty in DA:O.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
I won't comment on the changes to camera itself, because I never really used the zoom out option regularly in DA:O. From what I could see in the demo, I didn't have any problems with lining up aoe's or looking around the battlefield, but that's just me.
[/quote]
Not to worry Shiori, because that's my second biggest gripe. The overall fluidity of the battle system is good (still need to see FF in action though) but the demo really demonstrated (to me) that the camera needs to pull further back. There were times during my playthrough that I really wanted to both detach the camera from the active character and pull it back further, features that the PC version should support and would benefit greatly from imo.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Totally agreed about the Warden and Morrigan for DA3
[/quote]
To laugh or to cry... I'll just agree for now. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie]

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Oh, and just played through the demo again and got the Morrigan reference from Flemeth. Its when you can say the sarcastic line "Good point." To which Flemeth replies:




"If you knew my daughter, you'd know how seldom I hear that."
[/quote]
The Flemeth encounter was like an oasis in the middle of a fairly uninspired opening sequence, nice to hear the Korcari theme kick in there and the DA:O warden & Morri references were nice.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, even in Origins I came to have some emotion when they killed off teh Couslands for the HN Origin. But with DA2 its just chucking people at you and "Oh, they're dead! You should feel something cause there is sad music!"
[/quote]
Indeed, if the game begins there it seems they've missed a trick by not showing Hawke & co in Lothering, giving the game at least a little time to build the relationship on-screen.

[quote]Swoo wrote...

Nooo, don't fall for that trap! She's going to have to leave the party eventually to go to Denerim (to bang the Warden...and maybe Leliana...and maybe Zevran...) so I am totally not falling for it this time. She either leaves, then comes back with Zevran-stink!, or she just flat-out leaves. Nuh-uh, she can stay in the brothel in Denerim. If my only choice is that shield chick, Aveline?, or the Pirate, Hawke's celibate.  I'm too busy pining for that dead sister of mine I never really knew, just...give me time! I will give you this, she does seem pretty cool, but trap! Don't fall for it!
[/quote]
Hawke's too busy making awesome sh*t happen to screw around with any romance bs.

Oh yeah, there was a gda file for what looks like Zevran's soundset (going by the filename - sst_ss_zevran.gda) buried in one of the ERF files the demo installs. Buuut, since this the Morri thread, that doesn't matter to us [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]


[quote]Swoo wrote...
I like the Bioware 101 though, I had a similar thought. Odds on her getting a boat and ditching you in the middle of the night, never to be seen again but felt thanks to a magical barnicle left in your possession?
[/quote]
Isabella is probably the trap this time... But surely Gaider must have set some cruel plan in motion and he didn't write her...
 
[quote]Swoo wrote...
My first guess as well. If Flemeth has major interactions with the PC in DA2, then I'd wager it's after the battle of Denerim. I would imagine some lore-fiends would flip-out at super-teleporting-Flemeth if she's hanging with Hawke when you can go visit her in Origins.[/quote]
It was stated somewhere you meet her multiple times. I'm too lazy to find quotes though.


[quote]Swoo wrote...
Two - The graphics look nice. I expected horrid after the Hot Rod Samurai comment, but they look like a good modder redid Origins. It won't compete with Skyrim, Blizzard, or even the Witcher from what we've seen, but overall they look....nice.
[/quote]
They don't actually look like *too* much of a departure from Origins tbh, its primarily the lighting (which has evidently been upgraded from the dismal failure of the Origins engine) that's making things look a bit nicer.

[quote]blademaster7 wrote...
The graphics aren't horrid by any stretch of the imagination but they are not spectacular either. Mass Effect 2 is a great looking game. I don't understand how could they copy just about everything from ME2 and not try to mimic the graphics...
[/quote]
ME2 isn't that much of a looker really, though.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Shapeshifting Swamp Witch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pirate with EEE's tacked on her chest and a butt that makes Miranda's from ME2 look small
[/quote]
QFT.

Morri>All

A true Morri fan never strays, at least not until certain plot threads conclude and they can refocus their obsession elsewhere.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Oh, and I won't sully the thread with my wall of text impressions from the demo, but I posted them here FWIW.
[/quote]
Dammit Brock, the Morri support network is here for you, say what you feel [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]. Post it here [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

[quote]blademaster7 wrote...


PS: The possibility of not triggering the quest is gonna get hand-waved
[/quote]
What are you talking about blademaster, its a Morrigan related quest- it won't import correctly, why break from tradition after all.

[quote]blademaster7 wrote...

PS2: Gotta love brock's review. He
posts three sentences for "the good" and an entire essay of "bads". He
also made sure to point out the negatives on the things he liked. Good
to have you around buddy. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]
[/quote]
Brock embodies the essence of the Morri thread - if there's something to b*tch about, we're all over it (and usually with good reason). He's right up with Barbarossa for my favourite posters - I'm far more interested in one who speaks their mind than that of the flock. As ever, we salute you Brock [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angel.png[/smilie].


Last of all, my demo thoughts -
-not as bad as I was expecting on the combat front, would have been nice to see FF in action though - ie: the difficulty should have been unlocked as Normal mode now appears to be Easy (ZZzzzz....) mode.
-generic darkspawn look worse than before
-closing attacks (as a mechanic) are good.
-the paraphrasing has already annoyed me in a few of the conversations, a mod to address that would be a high priority on my list because I actually do like to know exactly what the protagonist is going to say rather than playing guessing games.
-the Hawke voices seem better than Meer but not as good as Hale. Still a fair amount of blank expressions on faces though considering cinematics are here to save us all.
-some of the new anims are nice, it's mainly the rogue anims (and skills) that are over the top imo.
-clipping, quite a bit of it occurs in some of the cutscenes which is disappointing. Also some noticeable jarring position key realignments during some cutscenes.
-long linear corridor "tutorial" - I'm hoping that's a one off and level designs are more inspired further in, 'twas reminiscent of FFXIII and that's not good.
-some clear facial issues with some characters when they're talking, the woman with the axe who attacks you in Kirkwall being the first that springs to mind.
-graphics are passable I guess, nothing special though (not the touted "super hot" we were promised), again would've been nice to see the DirectX 11 enhancements working in the demo.
-Flemeth does look more Morrigan-esque now, whether this is a good or bad thing, I'm not sure.
-Music, aside from Flemeth's theme/Korcari theme or w/e it is was okay, nothing really stood out.

-I also agree with blademaster, Beth's voice is not too good imo, in fact voices across the board seem to be a bit more hit and miss than before, at least in this segment of the game.

And to end on a random note - I must remember to download the Shogun 2 demo.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 24 février 2011 - 01:52 .

[Swoo]

Terra_Ex wrote...

Absolutely nothing regarding Bart, I'm afraid. There is a big nod towards the Fei/Elly reincarnations shown in XenoGears in XS3 though. Generations of Doom... was that number 3? I know I liked Phantasy Star 2 (but it was damn hard back in the day) and loved PS4. I don't recall enjoying the third entry though so you must be pretty desperate [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

I always had a soft spot for the third one (Generations of Doom), because it was one of my favorite RPG's when I was still in the single digits. Having multiple LI's, and having each chapter be a branching quest that was dependant on who came before you and which kid you are in this Act, going through multiple generations of a family (and seeing previous main characters, LI's, and NPC's show up through the ages continuing and finishing arcs) was amazing when everyone was trying to be Final Fantasy I.

I'm sure it hasn't withstood the test of time. But c'mon, Cyborgs with shotguns beside mages and knights in shining armor. Phantasy Star was awesome.

Last of all, my demo thoughts -
-not as bad as I was expecting on the combat front, would have been nice to see FF in action though - ie: the difficulty should have been unlocked as Normal mode now appears to be Easy (ZZzzzz....) mode.

Yeah, I'm expecting my first run to probably be Nightmare. By the time I got to the Ogre I wasn't even trying anymore, just throwing fireballs left and right.

-generic darkspawn look worse than before

Ayup.

-closing attacks (as a mechanic) are good.

Something I forgot to give them credit for. And mage finishers.

-the paraphrasing has already annoyed me in a few of the conversations, a mod to address that would be a high priority on my list because I actually do like to know exactly what the protagonist is going to say rather than playing guessing games.

Like I said, I have no problem with the dialogue wheel, I just dislike that the jist of what it gave me in my options didn't relate to what he really said in game. A few times I broke away from the jokey Hawke to try to be serious and he basically was a lot harsher than what I thought I pressed.

-Flemeth does look more Morrigan-esque now, whether this is a good or bad thing, I'm not sure.

Pretty much in the same boat. Unsure. I like the 'crown', and some of the design of the armor, but the rest...not so sure about.

-Music, aside from Flemeth's theme/Korcari theme or w/e it is was okay, nothing really stood out.

I liked the music that played over the narrator. Had a serious BG2 vibe, which I have stressed my man-crush over.

-I also agree with blademaster, Beth's voice is not too good imo, in fact voices across the board seem to be a bit more hit and miss than before, at least in this segment of the game.

I must be in the minority, but I liked her. The...brother...I shall not speak his name, he can fall into a pit. Soon. I did think a lot of the voice actors tried to put quirks into their speech to show that this isn't Ferelden anymore, but more often than not I wasn't too hot on them.

And to end on a random note - I must remember to download the Shogun 2 demo.

I have Empire Total War and Nappy:TW sitting on my desk gathering dust. What the Stainless Steel team did with Medieval Total War 2 has kept me more interested than anything CA has offered in years. I doubt Shogun will change much; Elephants with Cannons and Romans with flamethrowers trump Samurai and Ninja anyday. Sorry CA!

[Esbatty]

Now I understand why I am attracted to DA2 Flemeth. She looks like an much much much much older Morri now. And now Alistair isn't a total douche during that initial Party Banter in Lothering with the "Nose" comment lol.

[Master Shiori]

Swoo wrote...

I like the Bioware 101 though, I had a similar thought. Odds on her
getting a boat and ditching you in the middle of the night, never to be
seen again but felt thanks to a magical barnicle left in your
possession? ../../../images/forum/emoticons/ninja.png

To quote Varric to you: "Nothing so fancy, I asure you"

Seriously though, the whole "Isabela, Warden and companion X have a threesome" has already happened by the time you meet her in the Hanged Man.

The events of DA:O happened during Hawke's first year in Kirkwall which the game skips, due to it being random, boring jobs for the mercenaries. The part where you meet Isabela in the demop happen during the second year.

That also means Flemeth gets killed by the Warden during the first year and could reappear as early as second year (very unlikely but possible).

Oh, and David Gaider wrote the Fenris romance, so female players have more reason to be worried then those romancing Izzy.

Swoo wrote...

I really like the idea, and never had any companion really in the middle ground. I just
wonder if they will have some options that are just too good, so you
are left going 'Ok, you have to hate me. Ok, you, you like me. Hate.
Like. Eeeeh, never gonna use you. Like. Like. Hate.' Reservations aside, it's a slick idea.

Actualy the bonuses are almost the same for rivalry and friendship. The difference is that friendship bonuses are slightly weaker but affect the whole party, while rivalry bonuses are slightly stronger but only affect the companion in question.

Example:

Say, friendship with Isabela results in your whole party getting a 10% bonus to critical damage, while rivalry would give Isabela a 15% bonus in ciritical damage that only she could benefit from.
Just a made up example of how it works, since I don't really know what she gets from maxed friendship/rivalry.
So there really is no downside from going one way or the other.

Swoo...

I don't buy that for a second, sounds like PR speak
to me. The whole 'We've been building this up forever, here's your
first taste, but it sucks intentionally. The real thing is way better'.
Yeah...

The encounters in the demo were rather simple, since they're meant more as a dmonstration of new abilities and how combat works. Note how enemies (apart from the ogre) don't really have any special abilities. They all use auto-attacks.
In the full game you'll have mages using different spells like in DA:O, archers and melee characters using their unique abilities and bosses are going to be a whole new level of challenge. Check the rock wraith video for an example. You actualy had swarms of enemies popping up all around you while the boss pulls off unique attacks like aoe nova that damages anyone in plain sight (basicaly you need a pillar humping tactic from WoW).
That wasn't easy as, say, the HIgh Dragon fight from DA:O, where you basicaly just stand still and blast away.

The whole thing was kind of like the Harvester from GoA, minus the orbs that banish the summoned adds.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 24 février 2011 - 09:31 .

[blademaster7]

Master Shiori wrote...

Seriously though, the whole "Isabela, Warden and companion X have a threesome" has already happened by the time you meet her in the Hanged Man.

Alistair, Zevran and Leliana have cameos right? Awkward...

And sorry for going on topic, but did they actually confirm that Witch Hunt will have references in DA2? It kinda seems that it was just their way of hiding Morrigan and the Warden under the rug.

[Master Shiori]

blademaster7 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Seriously though, the whole "Isabela, Warden and companion X have a threesome" has already happened by the time you meet her in the Hanged Man.

Alistair, Zevran and Leliana have cameos right? Awkward...

And sorry for going on topic, but did they actually confirm that Witch Hunt will have references in DA2? It kinda seems that it was just their way of hiding Morrigan and the Warden under the rug.

Not sure.

Mike Laidlaw confirmed that there are references to Morrigan in DA2, but didn't specify if they're from Origins itself or Witch Hunt.

Alisatir has a cameo if you made him a wandering drunkard, or at least that's the only reason I can think of him popping up in Kirkwall.

Corrine Kempa (Leliana's VA) is listed under the voice actors who did work for DA2, but we don't know if it's a Leliana cameo or some other, minor character.

I've no idea if Zevran will appear or not. Even if his voice actor is listed he could have just voiced some random npc and not Zev himself.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 24 février 2011 - 01:03 .

[MKDAWUSS]

Master Shiori wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Seriously though, the whole "Isabela, Warden and companion X have a threesome" has already happened by the time you meet her in the Hanged Man.

Alistair, Zevran and Leliana have cameos right? Awkward...

And sorry for going on topic, but did they actually confirm that Witch Hunt will have references in DA2? It kinda seems that it was just their way of hiding Morrigan and the Warden under the rug.

Not sure.

Mike Laidlaw confirmed that there are references to Morrigan in DA2, but didn't specify if they're from Origins itself or Witch Hunt.

Alisatir has a cameo if you made him a wandering drunkard, or at least that's the only reason I can think of him popping up in Kirkwall.

Corrine Kempa (Leliana's VA) is listed under the voice actors who did work for DA2, but we don't know if it's a Leliana cameo or some other, minor character.

I've no idea if Zevran will appear or not. Even if his voice actor is listed he could have just voiced some random npc and not Zev himself.

I'm thinking it's probably other characters. Dunno why they rehash the same VAs for different characters like that. You'd think they want their collection of characters to sound a bit more varied...

[Master Shiori]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Seriously though, the whole "Isabela, Warden and companion X have a threesome" has already happened by the time you meet her in the Hanged Man.

Alistair, Zevran and Leliana have cameos right? Awkward...

And sorry for going on topic, but did they actually confirm that Witch Hunt will have references in DA2? It kinda seems that it was just their way of hiding Morrigan and the Warden under the rug.

Not sure.

Mike Laidlaw confirmed that there are references to Morrigan in DA2, but didn't specify if they're from Origins itself or Witch Hunt.

Alisatir has a cameo if you made him a wandering drunkard, or at least that's the only reason I can think of him popping up in Kirkwall.

Corrine Kempa (Leliana's VA) is listed under the voice actors who did work for DA2, but we don't know if it's a Leliana cameo or some other, minor character.

I've no idea if Zevran will appear or not. Even if his voice actor is listed he could have just voiced some random npc and not Zev himself.

I'm thinking it's probably other characters. Dunno why they rehash the same VAs for different characters like that. You'd think they want their collection of characters to sound a bit more varied...

Some actors can pull of a wide range of voices. Jennifer Hale is particularly well known for this.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Master Shiori wrote...
Actualy the bonuses are almost the same for rivalry and friendship. The difference is that friendship bonuses are slightly weaker but affect the whole party, while rivalry bonuses are slightly stronger but only affect the companion in question.

Example:

Say, friendship with Isabela results in your whole party getting a 10% bonus to critical damage, while rivalry would give Isabela a 15% bonus in ciritical damage that only she could benefit from.
Just a made up example of how it works, since I don't really know what she gets from maxed friendship/rivalry.
So there really is no downside from going one way or the other.

And I am really looking forward to this system. In Origins, companion approval wasn't broken or anything, but it needed work. Those who didn't get approval up were missing out.

Also it should be mentionned that the devs said friendship and rivalry have nothing to do with morality. As in maximizing friendship with everyone is not necessarily a "good" thing.

And I like how friendship bonuses makes them benefit the party as they approve of your leadership, vs rivalry bonus.

[Alex Kershaw]

Killing Flemeth isn't canon, so her 'appointment' might not be that... It's possible that the default Hawke assumes that the Warden DID at least meet Flemeth and if you import a Warden who didn't, she'd say something different though... I just think she said she had an appointment to avoid the question though - I don't think it was a specific reference to anything... And I doubt she knew that the Warden was coming.

[Lord_Anthonior]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Killing Flemeth isn't canon, so her 'appointment' might not be that... It's possible that the default Hawke assumes that the Warden DID at least meet Flemeth and if you import a Warden who didn't, she'd say something different though... I just think she said she had an appointment to avoid the question though - I don't think it was a specific reference to anything... And I doubt she knew that the Warden was coming.

I don't know if Canon or not, but I think Flemeth knows all too well what happens in the future, even in DA2 she questions herself if it is fate or coincidence but she already knows what will follow. She told Maric about Loghain's betrayal, about the Blight, to the Warden that she believed in him in the wilds, so maybe she just doesn't express her knowledge but I'm quite sure that she already knows many things.

As for her appointment, I think she might have an idea or at the very least even expect it, after all, Flemeth did said that Morrigan has finally found someone to dance to her tune (and such a sweet tune it is) so it's fair to think that there's nothing in the world that would cought Flemeth by surprise (only Osen's death but that was the last thing) and by the way Flemeth is, she must have thought about it since the very moment the templar stole the grimoire, she knew her secret was out and only a matter of time for others (and Morrigan) to know about it.

[MKDAWUSS]

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Killing Flemeth isn't canon, so her 'appointment' might not be that... It's possible that the default Hawke assumes that the Warden DID at least meet Flemeth and if you import a Warden who didn't, she'd say something different though... I just think she said she had an appointment to avoid the question though - I don't think it was a specific reference to anything... And I doubt she knew that the Warden was coming.

I don't know if Canon or not, but I think Flemeth knows all too well what happens in the future, even in DA2 she questions herself if it is fate or coincidence but she already knows what will follow. She told Maric about Loghain's betrayal, about the Blight, to the Warden that she believed in him in the wilds, so maybe she just doesn't express her knowledge but I'm quite sure that she already knows many things.

As for her appointment, I think she might have an idea or at the very least even expect it, after all, Flemeth did said that Morrigan has finally found someone to dance to her tune (and such a sweet tune it is) so it's fair to think that there's nothing in the world that would cought Flemeth by surprise (only Osen's death but that was the last thing) and by the way Flemeth is, she must have thought about it since the very moment the templar stole the grimoire, she knew her secret was out and only a matter of time for others (and Morrigan) to know about it.

So Flemeth is Kreia?

(That was the vibe I had gotten on my very first playthrough, oh so long ago)

[Barbarossa2010]

Well I played the demo.  I managed to hit the right dialogue option (neutral/snarky: "I know") with Flemeth and she referred to Morrigan (her "daughter"), so I suppose we Morri-mancers were thrown yet another bone, even in a demo.  I know, it's pathetic (that's sort of the stock characteristic that binds us at this point isn't it?), but it was about the only instance where I felt I was actually playing a Dragon Age game. 

What can I say?, it didn't "feel" like Dragon Age.  Yet another set of companions we have little backstory to, a new PC who pales in comparison to a player made character we have the illusion we breathe life into, LIs that don't seem to be able to live up to the standard set by Morrigan and Leliana, and combat that felt alot like "Lord of the Rings, Conquest of Middle Earth" (not surprising, another EA game).  I'm serious here, if you haven't played it, go rent it or buy it used, start button mashing and you'll see what I mean!  I played Two-handed and Sword and Shield, and noticed one of the Two-handed moves was a verbatim lift out of LOTR (that whole super-speedy slicing move that cuts a swath through a horde of enemies--whatever that's called).

Yes, there was pause combat, but I didn't feel it a necessity, and it really seemed sort of a bolt-on nod to traditional RPG-ers.  The skill trees were very clear and intuitive, but way too scaled back for my emerging RPG taste.  Combat seemed little more than " just wear-out the A button" with an occasional X and Y to Shield Bash or Taunt.  No one died in my playthrough and all I had to do in the Ogre engagements was run circles around them and slash at them until they died.  They moved like simple minded, lumbering doofi, compared to their ramming (and challenging) Origins counterpart.  I know the game was locked at Normal, and perhaps all of this will work itself out at Hardcore or Insanity levels.

Anyway, Morrigan isn't there, and her Warden is elsewhere doing who knows what over a 10 year span.  Too bad really, the Hawke I have seen to date, pales in comparison and seems one giant step backwards as opposed to something that appears to be progress.  Maybe playing the entire game will change my view, but the window of "give 'em a chance" is closing quickly.

Peace to the Morrigan Nation.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 25 février 2011 - 02:57 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Barbarossa.
On the otherhand, I think archer and mage in DA2 are a clear improvement, at least at first glance (most of their abilities were locked, but I think they will be adequate). But I can definitely see the two handed sword moves being ripped off from someplace else, except badly. I never liked it in Origins, but now I hate it. The sword and shield was, imo, adequate and I liked how the PC starts to stab instead of slash in shield defense mode, it's a nice touch. But I think it's the difficulty level that is making the game feel too easy. You really don't need to pause, and just need to spam attacks and abilities, while runnign around waiting for the cooldown.

Hopefully nightmare difficulty (which I am going to start with) will force us to adopt a more tactical play style. So in terms of gameplay I am of mixed opinion. The mage and archer, and maybe shield and sword, I thought, were improved. The two handed sword and rogue were not. That said, I dislike the rogue because I envision finesse and precision, not super athleticism, so it's a personal taste.

The thing I dislike the most however is the over the top ridiculous amount of gore. Darkspawn exploding with their limbs all over the place from an arrow? That's not gritty and dark, that's ridiculous. People need to realize that a thing being gritty, dark and mature is not about how much blood is spilled. Also, fireball lacks the impact it had in Origins. It looks weird, like a ball of orange juice exploding and not fire and lacks appropriate sound effects. Same with inferno. In contrast, the ice spells, I thought, were good.

So yea, mixed feelings. I don't know what to think. On the whole, my feelings on the matter are more positive than negative, but the margin isn't that big.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 février 2011 - 03:05 .

[Terra_Ex]

Swoo wrote...
I always had a soft spot for
the third one (Generations of Doom), because it was one of my favorite
RPG's when I was still in the single digits. Having multiple LI's, and
having each chapter be a branching quest that was dependant on who came
before you and which kid you are in this Act, going through multiple
generations of a family (and seeing previous main characters, LI's, and
NPC's show up through the ages continuing and finishing arcs) was
amazing when everyone was trying to be Final Fantasy I.

I'm sure
it hasn't withstood the test of time. But c'mon, Cyborgs with shotguns
beside mages and knights in shining armor. Phantasy Star was awesome.

Oh, I find the 16 bit era's games to be pretty solid even now. The way you describe PS3 makes it sound quite appealing, my dislike of it could be a folly of youth... maybe its worth revisting in the future.

Swoo wrote...
I have Empire Total War and Nappy:TW sitting on my desk gathering dust. What the Stainless Steel
team did with Medieval Total War 2 has kept me more interested than anything CA has offered in years. I doubt Shogun will change much; Elephants with Cannons and Romans with flamethrowers trump Samurai and
Ninja anyday. Sorry CA!

The original Shogun & Rome are my faves. Med 2 was good as well, Empire was still a glitch fest when I last played and Nap didn't interest me. I'm "hoping" that Shogun 2 will recapture what made the first so good back in the day.

Master Shiori wrote...
Oh, and David Gaider wrote the Fenris romance, so female players have more reason to be worried then those romancing Izzy.

This is the best bit of info you've posted thus far Shiori, if Gaider pulls his usual shenanigans we'll be in for a good show (I find it hard to believe that male Hawke is safe from any traps though.) Still, even that'll be eclipsed by the Morri thread's pain in a future DA title when the walls of Fort Myopic come crashing down.


Since the Morri thread has been quiet today, a couple of bits I noted from the DA2 demo plot files regarding "light" content: (I'm presuming the naming convention "plt_lgt" can be taken at face value. The demo might not have shipped with all the plot files, so there may be more things of interest.) Don't the next bit if u don't want pseudo-spoilers.

Most of the big Origins decisions seem to have an aptly named plot file associated with them. There's something about Avernus / Sophia in there, alistair king/drunk is in there, something about finding Nathaniel as well. Another light file about "witch" but that could refer to Flemeth. There's a codex reference to "foreshadow" which is probably referring to the usual guy for BioWare games. Plot files relating to the elf girl Merrill; one referring to "mirrorimage" and the other to varterral, though those are likely companion quests since the others seem to have similar plot groupings. Maybe the dalish connection there might have something of interest for us though... or maybe not. There's a plot file called plt_vrc200pt_n_romance (with vrc being an abbreviation for the dwarf) which I won't comment on, but its likely either a deep, dark past reason or some nod towards the DA2 thread and lack of said romance or maybe some narration regarding your romance interest - 'tis all guesswork regardless.

The rest is is too vague to draw conclusions from based solely on filenames and I didn't want to look at companion plot names too closely to avoid spoilers.

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Well I played the demo.  I managed
to hit the right dialogue option (neutral/snarky: "I know") with
Flemeth and she referred to Morrigan (her "daughter"), so I suppose we
Morri-mancers were thrown yet another bone, even in a demo.  I know,
it's pathetic (that's sort of the stock characteristic that binds us at
this point isn't it?), but it was about the only instance where I felt I was actually playing a Dragon Age game. 

It has been noted Barbarossa, yes [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
 I know the game was locked at
Normal, and perhaps all of this will work itself out at Hardcore or
Insanity levels.

I sure hope so, the party is practically immortal irrespective of whether it's in exaggerated mode or not, rogue especially with backstab & evade is godly, archery destroys entire rooms of adversaries and mages can just spam fireball with no FF in play.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 25 février 2011 - 03:25 .

[Addai]

Terra: Did you notice anything that would indicate Alistair not king and not drunk, i.e. stays in the Wardens?

Claudia Black is not on the VA list, but then I guess no one is surprised by that.

Modifié par Addai67, 25 février 2011 - 03:28 .