A little Morrigan to spruce up the page[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Yeah, they've compressed (maybe also encrypted) the files this time and changed some (but not all) of the file structures a little - certain sets of files now look to be encapsulated in containers too, like the cutscene/dialogue pairs. I cba to look into it further till the retail version hits in case the implementation differs. Might be worth examining the talk table in the final game to extract any and all Morri/warden/ogb references though.[/quote]
Yeah, I just messed around trying to look at things with the toolset, but have no clue what I'm doing. I did see the names of the areas I believe- damn there seem to be alot of caves in DA2.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Maybe it does, it looks like there *
might* be a letter relating to Avernus as well but the file name is abbreviated (received letters seem to crop up frequently in the plot file names.) Still it'll just be a small bone to apprease an angry mob until we see the plot back in action again. [/quote]
I still think the Avernus side of the Grey Wardens somehow unlocking some greater power from the Taint is a really cool avenue they could go down. I think I've said it before, but it kind of reminds me of BG2 with the Slayer being some sort of unlocked power of the Bhaalspawn. For as much as people moan about the Wardens being boring and played out already, I really think that especially if a game was to take place in the Anderfels, there is still a boat load of things that could be done with the Wardens. As has been said, the amount we know of the Wardens at large is about as much we knew of the Jedi after A New Hope- namely, next to nothing.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Surely you jest!? I don't think that's all the plot files (just those that are necessary so as not to break anything in the demo) and I'm sure it's buried in there somewhere for DA2 retail after an (unsuccessful) import. I expect they'll dump the
important decisions (threesome with Isabela, did Dog watch, etc) into a single plotfile during the import. [/quote]
Thats the worrisome thing- DA2 will no doubt be buggy, but especially without a toolset, I'm guessing we'll have bugs which we don't even realize are present. And with importing I'd wager there will be bugs we won't even realize are bugged until DA3 and beyond. Ugh.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
I doubt it since it has the Merril "mrl" tag but I'm not getting excited about it. All the dlc items and whatnot have the premium "prm" tag in the filename. As ever, we shall hope for the best whilst maintaining a pessimistic facade.[/quote]
Well....thats interesting then. The Eluvian is Dalish....bah, knowing our luck it will have Hawke look into the Eluvian and see the Warden dead, crushed by rocks.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Oh dear, another DA2 video that makes me sad. I can only echo the sentiments of yourself, Barbarossa and others in the relevant DA2 thread.[/quote]
Funny enough (or sad, really), on former DAO Lead Designer
Brent Knowles' blog, somebody brought up that interview and Knowles' response is good stuff. Nothing against Laidlaw, but I really wish Knowles was still working on DA- he just seems to get it.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Skyrim does look nice and doesn't appear to suffer from the same inane marketing strategies we've been graced with for DA2, guaranteed mod support is a definite plus too. The new Deus Ex is also looking pretty nice and plays well too if the previews are to be believed.[/quote]
Definitely- thats the nice thing about this year, is that should DA2 disappoint, there are a boat load of other titles coming out to pick up the slack.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
I know it's just a demo but since they've gone with Awakening dialogue while out and about the whole thing just felt like a by the numbers affair, merely moving from battle to battle. On deaths, I agree they really don't have the intended effect and seem poorly placed if they're seeking to evoke an emotional response from the player. For all the bloodletting in combat, its strangely absent in the scene where you kill Aveline's husband.[/quote]
Yeah, I don't really know what note they were aiming for in killing off your sibling like they did. I mean, they have all of what, one line of dialogue before they go splat? And then you're supposed to be at all emotionally engaged by it? Eh- seeing as non-mage Hawke was supposedly at Ostagar fighting they should have started the game off there, providing a different POV on that battle and then have you go back to Lothering and escape as its being destroyed so you could actually see its destruction. Thats one thing thats confusing to me- early on in interviews they made it seem like you'd have a chance to see Lothering's destruction in DA2, since that was something that happened off screen in DAO. Guess like the Tactical Camera 2.0, that got hacked out too.
Just tossing the player into a life/death scenario with no frame of reference really only works insofar as the player cares about their PC's survival, like in a horror game such as Dead Space or Amnesia. Origins handled this much better with the Cousland Origin story by giving you a little time to appreciate your family as characters with some personality and depth- seeing them in their normal life- so that you were at a minimum a little bummed when they were killed off and everything in Highever went to hell. Just plunking you down on PooPoo Mountain with the darkspawn in pursuit with a handful of strangers teh game is telling you to care about seems forced- I just hope the rest of the game isn't like that due to the framed narrative jumping around.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Regarding Ferelden, there's plot files for werewolves, Bhelen and all that kinda stuff in the demo files, probably to be delivered via overheard conversations with town gossips, etc.[/quote]
Yeah, for the hell of it, I'm making my mage run now trying to make just about every contrarian decision to what my canon Cousland made. Mostly anyways- still romancing Morrigan of course, but going for Harrowmont instead of Behlen, spare Loghain while marrying off Alistair to Anora. I'm bummed to see no Simon Templeman in DA2's credits- but considering he gets sent to Montsimmard thats not surprising I guess. Sucks that both Templeman and Claudia Black- probably 2 of Origins' better voice actors aren't in DA2. Maybe thats for the best.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
I'm reluctant to restart the hope train Brock, the wreckage from last time wasn't pretty, but a treat for Origins players... No, they wouldn't do that, would they? Could it be a nice tie in with the Morri plotline, or more likely the
comedic sight of a paralytic Alistair staggering down the street as the credits roll...
Or is it a marketing ploy to assuage fans of the original in the eleventh hour...
Got a link for one of these reviews that mentions Origins, Brock?[/quote]
This thread goes over the
PC Games review where it makes mention of an unsatisfying ending... another user here, twincast, read the German PC Games review and made mention of how the review says "the ending video is more a treat for DA:O players." You can find another summary of the German Gamestar review here at
Gamespot's forum, although there may be spoilers so be careful. Basically, it says how the ending is "unresolved and open ended." Don't go to the second page of that thread as there are supposed spoilers for the ending which don't seem too far fetched. Hmmmm....I really hope it doesn't end like its being hinted at...<_<
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Interesting thought, a possibility I suppose... It would be interesting if this cliffhanger ending was tied into the Flemeth/Morri arc somehow. Didn't they state there are multiple endings, or is it the usual one ending. many small variants.[/quote]
I think in one interview from back in December, Darrah made mention of 6 endings, then after pausing said 12. So I'm guessing there are likely 3 or so sort of big choices that can go one way or the other, leading to a bunch of variations. Not unlike Origins with DR/US or who is on the throne- that sort of thing.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
I think if the warden returns they would be voiced due to BioWare's current love of VO, which does have its benefits I suppose. Sadly the way BioWare choose to implement things, said benefits are quickly outweighed by the negatives. They've borrowed so much from JRPGs for this outing I wish they'd just take the damn full text responses and be done with it.[/quote]
Yeah...even if they just added the full text as an option, I'd have a much better time with a player VO character. Problem is, its a guessing game with the paraphrases and sucks away any sense of agency in terms of being in control. It just makes for a more detached and passive experience- you don't need to put any thought into picking dialogue options beyond the icon as half the time what Hawke says is totally different or the tone is disconnected to what you thought it would come out as. Instead of being an active player in the story, it feels like you're just watching an interactive movie, and to me, thats boring and not what I want out of an RPG.
Curse you dialogue wheel!
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
I can only speak for myself but there would be no greater way for BioWare to underline how little it mattered (and by extension, your choices) than by downplaying/excluding the warden from any onscreen comeback in the Morrigan plot - it works directly against the player choice in WH. I've always said that were they only to bring back the romancing warden he'd be in a largely supporting role anyway, but for me he's got to be there onscreen if BioWare want to fully realise the latter half of choice and consequence. [/quote]
Absolutely- simply relegating the Warden to some hidden dialogue choice with Morrigan or handwaving away his absence would be terrible. The problem with bringing the Warden back as a non-PC is that you'd likely tie the Warden that went through the Eluvian either as a passive tag-along to whatever Morrigan is doing or they'd have possibly hijacked your Warden and give him motivations that the player didn't intend.
[quote]Alex Kershaw wrote...
Here's a question - how old do you guys see Morrigan as? Most seem to see her as 25-29 but I see her as 21-24...
[/quote]
I'd say she's anywhere from 26 on the young side to maybe 31 tops. Probably more like 28 is what I think. Definitely older than the Warden, who I think is supposed to be like early twenties in most cases.
[quote]Swoo wrote...
Oh no man, I'd be playing it as it's own beast and judging it on that. Speculating on the end though has me interested, and I keep trying to think of it from the angle of 'Ok, Alistair fans...' (Or Zev, or Leliana, or ect..) and the only two things I keep coming to is either Morrigan shows up from her magical sabbatical, or Alistair shows up with a Denerim Plus sized posse ready to throw down.[/quote]
Problem is, that even if they end on some Morrigan or Origins related note, everything I've read says the ending is kind of crummy and a cliffhanger. SO for all we know, it ends on a Morri cliffhanger and just like the DR and Morrigan running away, doesn't get resolution in the next game or whatever. My pessimism knows no bounds:)
[quote]KnightofPhoenix wrote...
[quote]Swoo wrote...
[quote]KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I don't mind a supporting role, as long as the Warden is proactive and not just a minion being ordered about. [/quote]
I just don't see the Warden, or Hawke, coming back as main characters in a Dragon Age game. They really seem to want to play the whole Dragon Quest/ect../ect.. role with this franchise with a mutating world and new characters that tie into the old characters and main story with each installment. It can work, and it has worked, I just have always held games like Baldur's Gate at the top of my list for the continuation and sense of ownership and investment it can bring.
[/quote]
And I don't mind, as long as the Warden is at least somewhat proactive even as a supporting character. If all he is going to do is nod at Morrigan's every command, then I will dislike it. My character didn't follow her to the mirror to be a minion, but rather to influence her and the OGB, and be the voice of reason and moderation should it be necessary.
[/quote]
Bingo.
And this is sort of the problem I mentioned above: if you bring the Warden back as an NPC with Morrigan, how do you do anything with him? The issue is that the motivations for your Warden going with Morrigan may be vastly different. Even the reasons allowed via dialogue in the game come down to either going because you loved Morrigan and want to be with her or that you wanted to be there for your kid. The problem is that you still have no idea what Morrigan is up to in terms of her plan. Like you KoP, I had my Cousland go with her to at minimum o be an advisor for her in whatever it is she'll be up to. But seeing as we have no idea what she has brewing, its no guarantee he'd blindly go along with her plans or even that he'd necessarily go along with her if she hatched some crazy genocidal plan or something really nutty.
So my fear if they brought the Warden back as an NPC with Morrigan would be that they'd start filling in the motivations for the Warden and basically hijack the Warden from the player. Or they'd ocme up with some lame handwave to explain why the Warden was just doing Morrigan's bidding via blood magic or something else on the opposite spectrum like having him not around since he's off running some quest/errand for Morrigan.
The bottom line is that I think in terms of agency, anyone that went through the Eluvian with Morrigan took a leap of faith really since we have no idea what Morrigan is doing. Thus, if they reintroduce the Warden without giving the player the chance to have their Warden react to whatever Morrigan's ultimate plan is, thats a big problem.
And I'll end with Angry Morrigan Slap Face- I love the miserable selfish bastard scene with the slap and the kiss Terra. Job well done!
Modifié par Brockololly, 27 février 2011 - 07:24 .
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