16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Esbatty]

*tears* Just opened her about 50 minutes ago... ugh. Just got the package the other day and dug up my digital camera so I opened her first and so far she's the only one I've opened. I barely took the twist ties off of her feet when I lifted her from the plastic holder and *thunk* her leg dropped off. This happened a year or so back with a DC Direct Catwoman figure. Just opened her and *thunk* same leg at the same joint spots. UGH.

Modifié par Esbatty, 04 mars 2011 - 03:24 .

[MKDAWUSS]

Esbatty wrote...

*tears* Just opened her about 50 minutes ago... ugh. Just got the package the other day and dug up my digital camera so I opened her first and so far she's the only one I've opened. I barely took the twist ties off of her feet when I lifted her from the plastic holder and *thunk* her leg dropped off. This happened a year or so back with a DC Direct Catwoman figure. Just opened her and *thunk* same leg at the same joint spots. UGH.

:sick:

[KnightofPhoenix]

Injury kit, now!

[IndigoWolfe]

Alright, I have a serious problem. I know this is has been discussed at length already, but I'm rather loathe to dig through the entire thread searching for answers.

I just finished my Origins playthrough for DA2, across the base game, Awakening and Witch Hunt. I romanced Morrigan, did the DR, talked to Morrigan during the final battle, gave her the mirror after the battle, saved, played through Awakening and got the Morrimance epilogue for my Warden, and yet when I played Witch Hunt, it played as if I had refused Morrigan at Redcliffe.

Is there any way to reload my game and fix this? I have several stratiegic savepoints I had the foresight of making.

[Terra_Ex]

Esbatty wrote...

*tears* Just opened her about 50 minutes ago... ugh. Just got the package the other day and dug up my digital camera so I opened her first and so far she's the only one I've opened. I barely took the twist ties off of her feet when I lifted her from the plastic holder and *thunk* her leg dropped off. This happened a year or so back with a DC Direct Catwoman figure. Just opened her and *thunk* same leg at the same joint spots. UGH.

This is about what I've come to expect from anything relating to Morri - it never works properly, a picture befitting the Morri thread, to be sure. Commiserations though Esbatty, you've been waiting for this for some time as I recall.

IndigoWolf wrote...I just finished my Origins playthrough for DA2, across the base game, Awakening and Witch Hunt. I romanced Morrigan, did the DR, talked to Morrigan during the final battle, gave her the mirror after the battle, saved, played through Awakening and got the Morrimance epilogue for my Warden, and yet when I played Witch Hunt, it played as if I had refused Morrigan at Redcliffe.
Is there any way to reload my game and fix this? I have several stratiegic savepoints I had the foresight of making.

What platform are you on? Are you using mods? Are you using the patched version of WH - version 1.1? There's info on the first page of this thread that explains how to verify you imported correctly into WH. There are some WH specific debug scripts for Morrigan though when I tried them several weeks ago, they were non-functional.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 04 mars 2011 - 04:50 .

[Esbatty]

@Terra: Yeah, I've been waiting months for Morrigan and Tali. Had Amazon cancel both preorders. Ordered an entire set of DAO figure from the Bioware Store. Just got 'em the other day. Just started opening them this morning. Then the one figure I wanted the most... broken, while taking her out of the package. Mind you I'm an avid figure collector so I know not to be forceful and be very careful especially since this is a DC Direct/DC Unlimited figure. I had an Infinite Crisis OMAC figure break on the right leg minutes after opening, a Catwoman broke just like Morri did here at the same knee joint. Oy oy.

I already ordered a replacement offa Amazon it should arrive on the same day as DA2 so I guess i'll open her as install DA2 on my 360 and do all my DLC downloads.

[Mr Plow]

poor Esbatty

Poor Morrigan


I am usually impatient and clumsy but I was very careful when I got my Morri figure when trying to extract her from that impossible packaging

[IndigoWolfe]

Terra_Ex wrote...
What platform are you on?

Console. I believe I was using a technique that Brockololly suggested for console players, but I'm not 100% sure.

[Terra_Ex]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...
What platform are you on?

Console. I believe I was using a technique that Brockololly suggested for console players, but I'm not 100% sure.

The mirror is only needed for the Awakening epilogue (for console players or non-mod users). You're probably using the old Witch Hunt DLC. I'd delete that particular DLC and redownload it.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 04 mars 2011 - 11:07 .

[IndigoWolfe]

Terra_Ex wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...
What platform are you on?

Console. I believe I was using a technique that Brockololly suggested for console players, but I'm not 100% sure.

The mirror is only needed for the Awakening epilogue (for console players or non-mod users). You're probably using the old Witch Hunt DLC. I'd delete that particular DLC and redownload it.

Okay, thanks! I'll do that.

[Barbarossa2010]

@Indigowolfe:

Are you conected to XBOX Live or PS Network? Your WH DLC (if you have the old one) should have been patched by now and you should have received an automatic update when you opened Origins. If you've recently downloaded, you should have gotten the patched version. If you are connected, then you evidently have a bad DL need to delete and re-download as Terra_Ex suggests.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 05 mars 2011 - 03:47 .

[Esbatty]

Well I woke up and her leg was nice and appeared solidly holding so I went to bend her other knee to fix her onto a better standing pose to make sure she would remain stable. Other leg busted off at the knee. Then I dropped Morrigan and "fixed" leg became unfixed thanks in no small part to gravity.

So I am now at work consoling myself that I'm gonna use the broken Morrigan for a custom Morrigan. I blame the jealousy of all the Alistair Gush Girls.

[Brockololly]

Catching up on old posts, most likely a wave of cynicism incoming!



[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
I'm still inclined to believe (against my better judgement) that they'll bring back the warden in some way in a future title as I don't think they'd bother with Morrigan's gift or indeed Gaider's own scattered hints on the subject if it wasn't a possibility. As we've said before, the ties are there, both with Flemeth/GWs and the coming change. [/quote]

Yeah, hopefully. Funny thing is, somebody found this in the demo files today:

Exodus was DA2's original name, which for a host of reasons seems to work better IMO, than plopping a 2 on the end and calling it done. Really, I think the 2 raises people's expectations as to DA2 being a more direct sequel in the gameplay and story sense, which seems questionable as to how connected DA2 will end up feeling. I just have the feeling that even in DA2, nothing is really going to get resolved or get moved forward to the extent we may want, especially in terms of Morrigan/Flemeth. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I'm ready to be disappointed in the story.

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Taken in the context of this recent interview though, I can see how they got there, even if I don't agree with it:

http://www.destructo...es-194234.phtml

(There's also a nice bit about the silent pc in there from Gaider, being one of our fave topics and all)
[/quote]

Yup- Interviews with Laidlaw should come with a warning "May induce epic facepalms and/or headdesks." I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment in some of the things he says, but the manner in which they're being implemented in the game is suspect to say the least. Its one thing to have a lower barrier to entry, its another entirely if the game doesn't ramp up in complexity after that- not only in combat, but in everything else. I mean, take combat balance- DA is supposed to be a party based tactical RPG- and yet, they balanced normal, the standard difficulty, to cater towards somebody only using one person and letting the AI control the party. Meh- I want to like the game, but...well, I'll no doubt write up an overly long review when I'm done to **** about it then.

In the meantime, if anyone is looking forward to the high res textures for the PC version, know that they're going to be a separate manual download. While I'm happy they're seemingly using DX11 and decent textures this time around, given my ho-hum internet connection and BioWare's fantastic servers, between the textures and all the DLC on Day Zero, who knows when I'll even get around to playing the game on Tuesday.

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
As you say, nonchalantly mowing down siblings who've barely spoken a  word fails on multiple levels. A problem potentially magnified by the  VO's line delivery via the tone-based wheel portraying a somewhat insane Hawke if wildly different options are selected in sequence.[/quote]

The funny thing is, I find Hawke to be just as expressionless and lifeless in scenes like the death of Bethany/Carver as people often cite the Warden as being expressionless. People often complain about the Warden and the non voiced PC, but in reality they're not complaining about the lack of voice, they complain about the lack of expression, which are 2 completely different things. And it looks as if Hawke is still as void of emotion as the Warden- yet because Hawke can spout off action movie one liners, people will ignore the lack of appropriate facial expression, which, if you're going with the ME style cinematic approach is more noticable.


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
A lot of devs make extravagant claims regarding endings and very few live up to that expectation. So paired up with the "unresolved ending" reports, I shan't expect too much.[/quote]

Yeah, I recall Todd Howard touting Fallout 3's 40 endings or something. Hahaha. Added with the claims of DA2's ending be pretty bad, I'm not expecting much, but as of late, BioWare finds new ways to surprise.


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Well if the wheel is scaleform driven (I'm assuming it is) that could probably be edited to shift it somewhere other than the center of the screen, giving space to pull the full text responses from the talk table via stringIDs. Not sure how much the implementation has changed from DA:O to DA2 though. I completely agree with you, it's extremely frustrating having to work around the paraphrasing system and the intent icons simply become a crutch to accompany your "best guess" - a significant step back imo.

It's a bit like with traditional 3rd person JRPGs, I play(ed) loads of them and love them without issue, but that's because they're not pretending to offer a mish-mash 1st-person approach via paraphrasing/VO. Your character is strongly defined and you typically get limited meaningful choices, with Hawke I'm primarily feeling exasperated because the game is offering these choices and then Hawke goes off and says something barely related to what was chosen. As you say, it becomes a passive experience, with my interaction as the player often becoming a frustrating rather than enjoyable experience.

Retrospectively it's probably why I don't particularly care for Shephard + co and why I/Shepard never feel connected with his/her team mates.  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sleeping.png[/smilie][/quote]

Exactly- with the ME cinematic approach/paraphrase, its all over the place in terms of player agency. Maybe you pick a paraphrase that matches up great with what you had in mind or maybe it comes across as completely different. Maybe Hawke goes rogue and ends up cocking their eyebrow and smirking at Isabela's propositioning even when your Hawke hates her guts while they remain looking devoid of any human emotion when their dead sibling is sprawled out right in front of them. At the end of the day, the "cinematic" approach puts much more in the hands of teh developer in terms of developing the PC. And sorry BioWare, but you're no where near as talented as "cinematic" film makers as actual movie directors. Instead of trying to mimic and copy movies, which are a mostly passive experience, they should be trying to tap into the unique things you can do with a video game.

Ugh. I'd just echo the sentiments of this blog post from the audio guy at Media Molecule, as it sums up my feelings on voiced vs. non voiced PC's. This bit in particular gets at the point you were making Terra:

[quote]
I am my character (right?), so why do they do things and say things  which I have little control over, and know a whole bunch of stuff which Idon’t? I mean, I’m meant to be them, but I’m having it rammed down my  throat that I’m quite clearly not them. They are themselves more  than I am them. If that’s what I was looking for I’d watch a film, a  really good film that has a century-long legacy of perfecting this kind  of storytelling.[/quote]

I feel like quoting that whole blog as its spot on in terms of being judicious in using voice and using text and the written word to convey things as well. I mean, for me, some of the more memorable moments in DA were the text moments like the Arcane Warrior or even in ME1 when you encounter that weird Prothean sphere and its all text. I'll quote the blog again:
[quote]
I mean, just compare the special feelings generated when reading a line like:

“The Presence in the gem is  at first alarmed when it senses your touch. It recoils in fear, and the  images that rush through your mind are ones of imprisonment and  loneliness”

...with the awkward spoken dialogue and exposition near the beginning of the clip:

“Is that blood in there? Who’s I wonder? You’d think it would be all dried up after so long. There must be magic involved!”

Was this dialogue meant to be  Scooby-Doo bad as part of some in-joke at Bioware that they’d all rather be making intelligent text adventures than spoon-fed talkies with  hastily written and recorded dialogue that treats the audience for their adult rated games like children? Who knows? But I found this “text  adventure” sequence magical – the voices, sounds and images I  experienced whilst reading about and interacting with that spirit were  better than anything else I found in the entire game. Point is, this  wasn’t just a simple text adventure – interacting with the visuals,  music, sound (that ambiguous yet suggestive whispering voice!) and text  all added up to something which cannot be experienced in any other  medium (including most games).[/quote]

And I'll add in this episode of Extra Credits, coincidentally on EA's terrible marketing, but the last part  where they recite an article written by  Electronic Arts' original founders is relevant I think in terms of how passive the ME approach seems to me and how it misses the potential of video games as a unique medium:

[quote]We learn that we are more entertained by the involvement of our imaginations than by passive viewing and listening.[/quote]Video games surely are a visual medium and need to use tech to advance as a medium. But there is something to be said about knowing your limitations too. I just think BioWare's infatuation with "digital actors" and VO everything is not unlike George Lucas tossing in CGI everything in the prequels. Just because you have the capability to do something doesn't mean thats the best idea: just because you technically can toss in CGI acrobat Yoda doesn't mean its a good idea. Just because you can have VO everything in a game doesn't mean its the most immersive or effective way of telling a story.



[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
My pessimism knows no bounds
[/quote]
That's why you're one of the Morri thread acolytes, Brock.[/quote]

Ah, to think back on the days when DA2 held promise as following up on Morrigan's storyline. When we thought, "Hey! If BioWare takes anything from ME, it surely will be continuity of the PC!" *sigh*

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
With WH, you made a commitment to a course of action and as the game presented it, I'm not sure there's any going back from that choice - I think Morrigan's words there were supposed to carry weight. The two options that send the warden through the mirror are certainly binding the warden to Morrigan's cause (maybe to the point of blind faith). You could simply have the warden character be privy to some part of Morrigan's plan that a romancing warden would agree with, but present it in such a way that it wouldn't be apparent to a new pc, or indeed the player until the pivotal moment at which point you can connect the dots.[/quote]

The Eluvian choice is definitely a matter of trust and faith- hell, faith not only in Morrigan, but that the wirters won't kick you in the balls while pointing and laughing as they make the thing one big gotcha! moment. Like I said, the only in game reasons you can give Morrigan for following are basically that you want to be with her no matter what or that you want to see your child.

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Last but certainly not least, Morrigan's dialogue with friendly/romanced wardens is laced with sadness and regret (the end of WH) - all things considered I'm not convinced that what she's working toward an entirely evil enterprise, though more than likely its one where her own future is uncertain. Add in the fact that OGB is also their child, the Flemeth warning and segue into DA2 and again, there's a lot of factors that'd mitigate genocidal acts on the part of Morrigan. If the warden's trust in her by that point is lacking, they probably had no business going through the mirror with her.[/quote]
Thats true, definitely. Although the reasons for Morrigan sounding sad, regretful are anyone's guess since we have no clue what she is up to. Is she sad that she's going to end up turning Thedas into some post apocalyptic wasteland in order to accomplish her goals and what she sees as necessary? We just don't know. I don't think we've been given adequate foreshadowing to say whether Morrigan's intentions are "good" or "bad" as that will likely depend on your POV- just as much as you could say siding with Templars or Mages is a good or bad choice. Basically, if Morrigan and her plan is such a big deal, the Warden who romanced her would hold some sway over her in terms of advice/motivation- as much as Morrigan could influence the Warden in DAO.

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
I get what you're saying though and I agree with it on principle, but unless we're playing as the warden, the warden as npc will have to operate under certain assumptions (unless we go multi-protagonist, and I would love to see a multi-protagonist approach for the finale of the Morri/Flemeth plot). It doesn't bother me too much tbh because I've seen similar things done before and it's worked out fine. Like you, I'd much rather reprise the role as the warden in a future title than any of the alternatives, but seeing them as an NPC, continuing on down the path I left them is an adequate second considering the way DA has gone. Anything less than that - codex/handwave would just be squandering a significant part of Morrigan's appeal as a character and the potential for divergence in her plotline.[/quote]
 Yeah, time will tell. Just with some of the things recently about DA2, like Anders being (in my view) retconned as being Bisexual for DA2 (all LI's are Bi apparently, due to the amazing power of Hawke. I've no problem with more diverse LI's but making them all "Bi" just for Hawke just seems like pandering to me, and contrary to all the claims of not making exclusive content no one will see. It just seems like it will water down the characters' identities.).

And then you have this article from Game Informer today- "10 Things You Should Know about DA2" where you have this quote:
[quote]
The Free Marches are influenced by the events from the previous game,  but don’t expect every little choice you made in Origins to change the  world. You’ll hear some references in dialogue, and even see a couple  cameos, but Dragon Age isn’t Mass Effect. You won’t be bombarded with  reminders of your previous deeds. Hawke’s story stands apart from the  Grey Warden’s, though it still clearly takes place in the same world.  However, be aware that some minor story points in Origins and Awakening  have been retconned, so even if you import your save, the events of the  previous games aren’t necessarily set in stone.[/quote]

No canon indeed BioWare.<_<


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
As I see it, if they do "mess it up" I'll just pretend that DA ended with WH and leave the series there, back when things made sense. That said, I think Gaider does understand why we want what we want and will probably seek to accommodate it to some degree - there's a nice parallel with the apparent origins of Flemeth's story being a love story of sorts so it's interesting to see how that overlaps with Morrigan. We will continue to b*tch in the interim period however.[/quote]
For all the crap he gets, I think Gaider more or less, gets it. Excellent point on the paralells between FLemeth and Morrigan too- there is a ton of content they could explore with Morrigan and the Wardens still. I can't shake the feeling that there was supposed to be more with Origins, like a Witch Hunt expack, and DA: Exodus, a spin off project, was elevated to full on sequel by the suits at EA who wanted DA to be more of an action franchise, thus killing off DAO projects to rush "DA2" out the door so they can keep on with yearly DA games now.

*puts on tinfoil hat*

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
Yep, there are ways to say things and make your product appeal to those that might have passed on the first iteration without having to slander the original. The marketing and general vision for DA2 has been questionable to say the least, but yeah I kinda covered this in the interview I linked in an earlier quote - as I see it, some people just do not and never will like RPGs unless you take steps so that said product is no longer an rpg. My concern is its a slippery slope trying to court the casual/mainstream crowd and one only has to look at what's become of the recent Final Fantasy iterations to see the pitfalls of such an approach in the long term.[/quote]
Amen, Terra.

Again, its fine to explain RPG mechanics better for new people or to help ease them in. Thats great. But don't design the whole game around the premise that your audience consists of a lobotomized chimp and strip out game mechanics to cater towards that new person thats probably going to just stop playing the game after an hour anyway. Thats my issue with so much of what DA2's design seems to consist of- its been done to attract people that did not like Origins, when Origins was BioWare's best selling game to date. Now was that due to people seeing crap like the Sacred Ashes trailer and thinking it was an action game? Maybe- so of course, DA2 gameplay now looks like Sacred Ashes with rogues flipping around like a spider monkey on PCP in a bouncy castle. But then you have stuff like skills being stripped, game length and content being stripped, inventory being dumbed down, iso view gone and so forth. And whats replaced that stuff, if anything, are elements from ME or basically elements to keep the game simple. Simple isn't bad, but neither is depth and complexity either.



[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
It does look quite beautiful (I'm also loving Deus Ex's aesthetics as a side note- that's an art style to be proud of imo). I've liked Elder Scrolls since Morrowind, it harkens back to an old RPG I used to play on the Genesis/Mega Drive which had a big focus on exploration and questing and a brutal difficulty level. The ES games rekindle that in modern trappings and I love them for it, I'm also cautiously optimistic about their "radiant story" system - IF they pull it off it could be amazing, but we'll see, there's too much talk in modern games of pushing boundaries and the end result is all too often underwhelming.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie][/quote]

Deus Ex's art direction is outstanding. Amazing stuff with the cyber punk-Renaissance thing they're doing.  As for Skyrim, yeah, Bethesda does exploration exceedingly well. And thats one aspect I'm wary of in DA2- it doesn't seem like there will be too much exploring. Or at least exploring varied environments seeing as we're stuck in Kirkwall most of the time. And while people bring up Athkatla in BG2 as a good example of a city being cool in a RPG, you also had a ton of other areas outside of Athkatla to explore too. Its just rather disappointing since you would seem to be able to travel much more with the 10 years in the framed narrative.


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, I think I'm going to start avoiding the DA2 forums for now. Really I just want to see some reviews from certain sites, as I am worried about the ending, if that Gamespot forum thread has any credibility.
[/quote]
I'm betting you won't stay away Brock, just keep the spoilers to yourself [/quote]

I'm not spoiling anything now that its 100% confirmed people have the game out in the wild. By the end of the weekend, people will probably have already beaten the game and be blabbing about it on forums.  I think I only know vague plot points but not how they add up and make any sense. So long as the Morrigan/Flemeth stuff is unspoiled I'm good.

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
I think if BioWare wants that audience they'll have to stop making rpgs, I might have mentioned it before but there was a quote from one of the doctors a while back saying something to the effect of "telling stories" doesn't necessarily have to be in rpg form so I wouldn't be surprised to see more mechanics go out the window in the future...[/quote]
Yeah, thats my impression too.Whats so disappointing is that DA was supposed to be the franchise that stayed more "old school" while ME and other stuff would branch out as far as genres went. I mean, even in ME you have people complaining about how much dialogue is there, even when its been processed into easily digestable talky bits requiring minimal thought or interaction. They really do seem to be going the JRPG route.

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
And now I see what the complaints were about. Zev fans have my sympathies... I don't suppose there's any chance this is *cough*pre-alpha*cough* - I recall that was a popular excuse for a time.[/quote]

I'm sure  that creature masquerading as Zevran is just part of Varric's exaggeration, you know, like all of DA2.


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
...its like Goldman and Laidlaw wanted to make Jade Empire 3 and are inflicting that on DA. Ugh...
[/quote]
That very thought has crossed my mind on more than one occasion.[/quote]

Funny enough, after I posted that, Desslock, the former editor of PC Gamer, RPG journalist and big fan of Origins, posted this on the quarter to three forums- he has a copy of DA2 and he's playing through it now:

[quote]
DA2 is just the misnamed sequel to Jade Empire.[/quote]


[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...
The in-game CC was very limited in comparison the toolset's morph editor, I expect the same holds true this time around. As to whether BW will bestow it upon us is another matter.[/quote]

I'd feel a lot better about DA2 if we knew they'd update the toolset. MOst of the issues I have with it seem like they could be addressed by mods. Its not necessarily any one big issue, but more of a host of smaller issues that when taken togethr might morph into a big issue. But mods could hopefully fix some of those.

[quote]Esbatty wrote...

*tears* Just opened her about 50 minutes  ago... ugh. Just got the package the other day and dug up my digital  camera so I opened her first and so far she's the only one I've opened. I barely took the twist ties off of her feet when I lifted her from the  plastic holder and *thunk* her leg dropped off. This happened a year or  so back with a DC Direct Catwoman figure. Just opened her and *thunk*
same leg at the same joint spots. UGH.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sick.png[/smilie]

[/quote]

She's just shapefshifting! Aaaah...it really is an apt metaphor for the Morrigan Thread- hopes raised, long delay in getting the goods, only to have hopes dashed when the goods arrive.

Hope she can see a healer soon:P

[quote]Esbatty wrote...

Well I woke up and her leg was nice and appeared solidly holding so I went to bend her other knee to fix her
onto a better standing pose to make sure she would remain stable. Other  leg busted off at the knee. Then I dropped Morrigan and "fixed" leg  became unfixed thanks in no small part to gravity.

So I am now at work consoling myself that I'm gonna use the broken Morrigan for a  custom Morrigan. I blame the jealousy of all the Alistair Gush Girls.[/quote]

Oh man. That sucks.

Such is the plight of a Morrigan fan, Esbatty. You know better;)

Modifié par Brockololly, 05 mars 2011 - 06:48 .

[Esbatty]

Oddly enough Loghain's face looks more like Howe's face. But once I do some flesh tone paint touch ups and washes around his eyes, he'll be more Loghain. Duncan and the Genlock are the sh*t, man. Duncan is just so spot on, the paint, the armor, hell you even get The Joining Chalice which was all that I wanted from the Duncan figure until I had the damn figure in hand. Also Loghain is SUPER-ARTICULATED, you figure the bulky armor would hinder his movement. It does but that just means they can cut joints and swivels all over the place hidden by the plate armor. I'm super impressed by that, Loghain can take on Archie slaying poses so easily.

@Brock: As for the complaint about the retcons, the build the reviewers had importing bugs like the Demo. So what they say are "retcons" are really bugs. Which sucks because DA games are always buckin' fuggy.

[Glorfindel709]

#Esbatty - My Anders died. The surrounded by a circle of hundreds of Darkspawn all killed by magic ending.

Yeah, they retconned big time.

[PickledGear]

With the retconning I can only assume that my play through where I killed Zevran is just thrown away and some how Zevran is revived to see Hawke some how. And you can't say he was faking death. My Warden chopped the antonio banderas impersonating Elf's head off clean. I don't like that idea of Oh screw you player we'll be telling you what really really happened in our universe.

At least they almost instantly said what was canon to KOTOR with the male Revan joining the light side I believe. Just seems lazy on their part with the retconning some plot points that the warden made. I know its hard work trying to make everything connected from a previous game but come on! Maybe make it easier for yourselves by secretly sneaking in something for the player to "remind" the game what they had chosen from the previous (I'm looking at ME2 I tested the game with one of my ME1 saves and when it came to Jacob and Miranda interviewing me over what had happened in ME1 I answered with things completely opposite on what happened. low and behold I got what I had incorrectly answered)
So why not have it as a conversation with Hawke talking about the "Hero of Ferelden" such as "I heard He/she was an elf, dwarf, human noble. And yadda yadda!" and the game bases itself off of those. But I'm just yammering. I just hope when I'm in a game company and we make games with continuing storylines between 2 games that we don't RETCON everything. We can retcon it when its like 10 years old and it needs a make over. Not after only 2 or so years.

[ejoslin]

SPARTAN 089-Gary wrote...

With the retconning I can only assume that my play through where I killed Zevran is just thrown away and some how Zevran is revived to see Hawke some how. And you can't say he was faking death. My Warden chopped the antonio banderas impersonating Elf's head off clean. I don't like that idea of Oh screw you player we'll be telling you what really really happened in our universe.

I'm pretty sure that Zevran will only be in DA2 if you had an alive Zevran in DAO.  I don't expect to see Leliana in my games where she ended up being killed at the ashes or left in lothering (though one of my Awakening games had Wynne in it even though she lost her head at the ashes).  It's been confirmed with Alistair that if he appears and what he's doing when he appears depends on your choices in DAO (whether he's king or a drunk or dead).  I think they're hoping that the Origins cameos will bring continuity to the game.

[Esbatty]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

#Esbatty - My Anders died. The surrounded by a circle of hundreds of Darkspawn all killed by magic ending.

Yeah, they retconned big time.

Oh crap. I didn't even consider that. Yeah you're right. So its like the Ohgren disapproval death being retconned that he "woke up in the bushes" for Awakening. Eesh. At least it has precedent.

[MKDAWUSS]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

#Esbatty - My Anders died. The surrounded by a circle of hundreds of Darkspawn all killed by magic ending.

Yeah, they retconned big time.

But isn't it odd that that was the argument for keeping former companions out of future entries because "not everybody kept them alive (or did this, this, or this)" and they wanted to respect the player's choices regarding that?

Considering that they are NPCs, though, and not really your characters, it's not quite as bad as "the Warden's story is over, but we're still gonna' dictate what happens to him" line of thought.

[IndigoWolfe]

Alright, so if you import a Warden into Witch Hunt that has not been bugged into not having done the DR, don't you get a dialogue option in the very beginning to your dog saying "You'll help me get my child back, won't you?", do you? That's what I remember.

I re-downloaded Witch Hunt from the Marketplace and I'm currently replaying it now, but I didn't get that dialogue option.

[Brockololly]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Alright, so if you import a Warden into Witch Hunt that has not been bugged into not having done the DR, don't you get a dialogue option in the very beginning to your dog saying "You'll help me get my child back, won't you?", do you? That's what I remember.

I re-downloaded Witch Hunt from the Marketplace and I'm currently replaying it now, but I didn't get that dialogue option.

Yeah, and even before that, the opening voice over from Morrigan should be different depending on whether you did the DR, turned down the DR and all that. The specifics are on the first post of this thread. I think if you did the DR and romanced her she says something like "Harder words I have never spoken."

So, did you do the mirror thing and did that work in getting the Awakening epilogue?

[IndigoWolfe]

Brockololly wrote...

So, did you do the mirror thing and did that work in getting the Awakening epilogue?

Yes, it did. And I was reading on the OP about another workaround for getting an unbugged Witch Hunt. Granted, I'm fairly certain I'm going to have to do everything from The Landsmeet to Witch Hunt. *sigh*

*Edit* As it turns out, I only have to do everything from the final battle over again, so, marginally better.

Modifié par IndigoWolfe, 05 mars 2011 - 06:16 .

[Brockololly]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

So, did you do the mirror thing and did that work in getting the Awakening epilogue?

Yes, it did. And I was reading on the OP about another workaround for getting an unbugged Witch Hunt. Granted, I'm fairly certain I'm going to have to do everything from The Landsmeet to Witch Hunt. *sigh*

*Edit* As it turns out, I only have to do everything from the final battle over again, so, marginally better.

Ah, yeah. The original WH bug was when you imported anything from the post  coronation forward, as the game cleared the DR related info in going to the post epilogue camp. But its better to get an unbugged WH than the Awakening epilogue, which really doesn't seem to matter much anyway.

[Terra_Ex]

[quote]Esbatty wrote...
Yeah, I've been waiting months for Morrigan and Tali. Had Amazon cancel both preorders. Ordered an entire set of DAO figure from the Bioware Store. Just got 'em the other day. Just started opening them this morning. Then the one figure I wanted the most... broken, while taking her out of the package. Mind you I'm an avid figure collector so I know not to be forceful and be very careful especially since this is a DC Direct/DC Unlimited figure. I had an Infinite Crisis OMAC figure break on the right leg minutes after opening, a Catwoman broke just like Morri did here at the same knee joint. Oy oy.
[/quote]
I've only had one of my figures take a nosedive from the shelf, resulting in a broken arm...

My most recent acquisition was Metis from Persona 3:FES who comes with a fricking bus stop weapon - it doesn't get any better than that


The Bioshock Big Daddy & Big Sister figures are pretty nice too. Goddammit, a quick Google search reveals that they actually made the Eleanor Lamb Big Sister unmasked figure too, need to acquire it!

Ugh anyway, on with the show.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, hopefully. Funny thing is, somebody found this in the demo files today:


Exodus was DA2's original name, which for a host of reasons seems to work better IMO, than plopping a 2 on the end and calling it done. Really, I think the 2 raises people's expectations as to DA2 being a more direct sequel in the gameplay and story sense, which seems questionable as to how connected DA2 will end up feeling. I just have the feeling that even in DA2, nothing is really going to get resolved or get moved forward to the extent we may want, especially in terms of Morrigan/Flemeth. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I'm ready to be disappointed in the story.
[/quote]
I've seen that before somewhere Brock- a long time ago in fact. They probably thought that another subtitle would confuse people and that "2 = better". With regards to the Morrigan side of things, I concur but I think the Flemeth thing might move along quite a bit - she featured quite heavily in the trailers so if BioWare has employed the old grey matter she might have a larger role in the plot this time. I expect Morri references will be thin on the ground though


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yup- Interviews with Laidlaw should come with a warning "May induce epic facepalms and/or headdesks." I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment in some of the things he says, but the manner in which they're being implemented in the game is suspect to say the least. Its one thing to have a lower barrier to entry, its another entirely if the game doesn't ramp up in complexity after that- not only in combat, but in everything else. I mean, take combat balance- DA is supposed to be a party based tactical RPG- and yet, they balanced normal, the standard difficulty, to cater towards somebody only using one person and letting the AI control the party. Meh- I want to like the game, but...well, I'll no doubt write up an overly long review when I'm done to **** about it then.
[/quote]
Haha,  I agree,. But taking that example - he says people weren't even getting an acheivement, it seems they're almost pulling foregone conclusions out of thin air. Even when I was first getting into rpgs years ago, the barrier for entry was still much higher than it is now. I'm talking games where you could literally be torn limb from limb within minutes of starting (due to random encounters) and the handholding we see now was non-existant. This was back when I was a kid and half the plot and puns would fly straight over my head but there was still nothing that prevented me from immediately jumping into the game, DA:O is supposed to be targetted at mature audiences  and some of the comments I've heard are pretty patronising tbh.

As for the party combat & balancing - yeah, it's a design goal they've established with a view to making it more easy to manage on consoles. In many ways I see a lot of the changes made to DA2 as alterations towards what mainstream gaming journalism would want to hear rather than actual refinements to the established formula. Anyway, nightmare in the demo was at least more satisfying than normal mode so we'll see what the final game is like. In case you hadn't read it yet, from the DA2 readme (posted on another site), there's some interesting nightmare features that made me think perhaps it not just completely tacked on:

[quote]
Nightmare difficulty adds several effects that are not described in-game, including the following:

1) Attacks from party members that hit more than a single target (including attacks from a two-handed warrior or a weapon-and-shield warrior) are capable of harming fellow party members as well as enemies.

2) Enemy assassins have a chance to steal potions.

3) When enemy assassins strike from stealth, they bypass the victim's armor.

4) Enemy commanders are able to taunt their allies into attacking a single member of the player's party en masse.

5) When party members fall below 10% health, they suffer bleeding damage that will further erode their health unless they are healed.

6) Various enemies become completely immune to certain types of damage; for example, dragons become immune to fire damage.
[/quote]
Of course, the gimped camera adds new challenges to the PC experience regardless of your selected difficulty. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie] There's also this, from the same poster:

[quote]
In some cases, characters in conversation make inaccurate references to earlier events in Dragon Age II or to the events of Dragon Age: Origins, if you imported a saved game.
[/quote]


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
In the meantime, if anyone is looking forward to the high res textures for the PC version, know that they're going to be a separate manual download.
While I'm happy they're seemingly using DX11 and decent textures this
time around, given my ho-hum internet connection and BioWare's fantastic
servers, between the textures and all the DLC on Day Zero, who knows
when I'll even get around to playing the game on Tuesday.
[/quote]
Ah, I remember a time when the low, medium and high texture packs actually shipped on the retail disc. Times are changing... I'm just surprised it's not being offered as premium DLC. We've still not seen DX11 in live play yet though so I'll say nothing on it till I've tested it myself.

Being in europe myself, I'll be waiting till the 11th, still I've still got some work to finish up so its probably a good thing. I better avoid the forums around that time though due to spoilers. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
The funny thing is, I find Hawke to be just as expressionless and lifeless in scenes like the death of Bethany/Carver as people often cite the Warden as being expressionless. People often complain about the Warden and the non voiced PC, but in reality they're not complaining about the lack of voice, they complain about the lack of expression, which are 2 completely different things. And it looks as if Hawke is still as void of emotion as the Warden- yet because Hawke can spout off action movie one liners, people will ignore the lack of appropriate facial expression, which, if you're going with the ME style cinematic approach is more noticable.
[/quote]
Based on what I've seen so far,  I'm inclined to agree and you highlight a valid point with the lack of expression being the true origin of the criticisms. But there are ways to mitigate the apparent failings of a silent pc - camera choice, subtle animations for the player character substituted for VO. The PC doesn't have to drive/react everything in some overt way, there's potentially a whole party of companions there to help drive the scenes forward too, it's only a as big of an issue as the developer makes of it, smoke and mirrors exist for a reason.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Exactly- with the ME cinematic approach/paraphrase, its all over the place in terms of player agency. Maybe you pick a paraphrase that matches up great with what you had in mind or maybe it comes across as completely different. Maybe Hawke goes rogue and ends up cocking their eyebrow and smirking at Isabela's propositioning even when your Hawke hates her guts while they remain looking devoid of any human emotion when their dead sibling is sprawled out right in front of them. At the end of the day, the "cinematic" approach puts much more in the hands of teh developer in terms of developing the PC. And sorry BioWare, but you're no where near as talented as "cinematic" film makers as actual movie directors. Instead of trying to mimic and copy movies, which are a mostly passive experience, they should be trying to tap into the unique things you can do with a video game.

Ugh. I'd just echo the sentiments of this blog post from the audio guy at Media Molecule, as it sums up my feelings on voiced vs. non voiced PC's. This bit in particular gets at the point you were making Terra:

[quote]
I am my character (right?), so why do they do things and say things  which I have little control over, and know a whole bunch of stuff which Idon’t? I mean, I’m meant to be them, but I’m having it rammed down my  throat that I’m quite clearly not them. They are themselves more  than I am them. If that’s what I was looking for I’d watch a film, a  really good film that has a century-long legacy of perfecting this kind  of storytelling.
[/quote]
[/quote]
^This. Again, it's just something I've always taken as a given, it's so supremely obvious and easy to understand yet evidently some people just don't get it. But I attribute it to those that approach the game in the wrong way, interacting with it purely on a "what you see" level, demonstrating a complete inability (or simply not wanting to) project themself into the game. Thus, a silent PC is a failing, yet a Shepard who goes off into a tangential speech based on two words you selected is the messiah of modern gaming. I think not.

As I've said before, the silent PC is one of the greatest strengths of the best WRPGs (and also a select few jrpgs use it effectively) and it's being eroded away so we can watch a pre-defined set of animations and/or a speech. Add to the mix you're nixing a huge amount of potential gameplay content for the sake of two voices, resulting in a invariably shorter gaming experience. What if I hate the VO assigned to my character - the developer has basically set me up for several hours of pain, and whiny or inconsistent VO performances are as much of a deal breaker for my as a silent PC may be for another player. It's not worth it imo, a bit of a paradox as well as a good number of FPS games employ the silent protagonist, and since BW wants to court that crowd... The topic came up when speaking to a few shooter friends of mine and I was delightfully surprised that they preferred implementations like Fallout's to a full VO. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
I feel like quoting that whole blog as its spot on in terms of being judicious in using voice and using text and the written word to convey things as well. I mean, for me, some of the more memorable moments in DA were the text moments like the Arcane Warrior or even in ME1 when you encounter that weird Prothean sphere and its all text. I'll quote the blog again:
[quote]
I mean, just compare the special feelings generated when reading a line like:

“The Presence in the gem is  at first alarmed when it senses your touch. It recoils in fear, and the  images that rush through your mind are ones of imprisonment and  loneliness”

...with the awkward spoken dialogue and exposition near the beginning of the clip:

“Is that blood in there? Who’s I wonder? You’d think it would be all dried up after so long. There must be magic involved!”

Was this dialogue meant to be  Scooby-Doo bad as part of some in-joke at Bioware that they’d all rather be making intelligent text adventures than spoon-fed talkies with  hastily written and recorded dialogue that treats the audience for their adult rated games like children? Who knows? But I found this “text  adventure” sequence magical – the voices, sounds and images I  experienced whilst reading about and interacting with that spirit were  better than anything else I found in the entire game. Point is, this  wasn’t just a simple text adventure – interacting with the visuals,  music, sound (that ambiguous yet suggestive whispering voice!) and text  all added up to something which cannot be experienced in any other  medium (including most games).
[/quote]
[/quote]
Once again, I agree. I've spoken with you on this on many occasions, that scene is a good example, but as I've said before - a particular sequence in Nier (where the game actually switches into a text-adventure style dream sequence) which employs this is nigh-unparalleled in modern gaming. In fact, this occurs on multiple occasions (Nier actually does it better by tying the text in with the music as it progresses) but yeah, you've still got the odd illiterate that cba to read the words on screen. So, yeah a lot of people wouldn't fully appreciate it as they've been conditioned against it.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
And I'll add in this episode of Extra Credits, coincidentally on EA's terrible marketing,
but the last part  where they recite an article written by  Electronic
Arts' original founders is relevant I think in terms of how passive the
ME approach seems to me and how it misses the potential of video games
as a unique medium:

[quote]
We learn that we are more entertained by the involvement of our imaginations than by passive viewing and listening.
[/quote]

Video games surely are a visual medium and need to use tech to advance as a medium. But there is something to be said about knowing your limitations too. I just think BioWare's infatuation with "digital actors" and VO everything is not unlike George Lucas tossing in CGI everything in the prequels. Just because you have the capability to do something doesn't mean thats the best idea: just because you technically can toss in CGI acrobat Yoda doesn't mean its a good idea. Just because you can have VO everything in a game doesn't mean its the most immersive or effective way of telling a story.

[/quote]
A nice Rings of Power reference in that Extra Credits video - the very game I was referring to earlier - that game would chew up the DA2 crowd and spit them out before they knew what hit em. Coincidentally, that was an EA-published WRPG that was in high demand back in the day yet our good pals EA didn't bother increasing supply to meet demand. And so the saga of hatred began... You could say the situation with EA is similar to BioWare, the original vision has shifted and/or morphed from the founding principles... maybe.

On the inner quote and your second point- this is what induces so many facepalms when I see BW trying to justify the cinematic, fully VO approach (in tandem with a select few apologists on the DA2 forums) - again, it's a very simple principle, videogames are perfectly poised to exploit the the best of numerous mediums, why then must they edge ever further towards the passive experience of a movie instead of blending that with an experience that demands something more of the player than picking a coloured icon/paraphrase. Draw the player in and make them feel like part of the experience rather than alienating the player to some kind of passive observer. The JRPG Baten Kaitos actually did something very clever with this though, where the player is essentially a spirit bound to the protagonist - it formed part of a major plot twists in fact, if you can get past the abysmal VO it's worth playing just to experience the twist.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Ah, to think back on the days when DA2 held promise as following up on Morrigan's storyline. When we thought, "Hey! If BioWare takes anything from ME, it surely will be continuity of the PC!" *sigh*
[/quote]
Everything but, sadly.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
The Eluvian choice is definitely a matter of trust and faith- hell, faith not only in Morrigan, but that the wirters won't kick you in the balls while pointing and laughing as they make the thing one big gotcha! moment. Like I said, the only in game reasons you can give Morrigan for following are basically that you want to be with her no matter what or that you want to see your child.
[/quote]
Well, if it does turn into a gotcha, we're all on hand with a burning desire to write extensive essays on the subject and direct them at Gaider.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Thats true, definitely. Although the reasons for Morrigan sounding sad, regretful are anyone's guess since we have no clue what she is up to. Is she sad that she's going to end up turning Thedas into some post apocalyptic wasteland in order to accomplish her goals and what she sees as necessary? We just don't know. I don't think we've been given adequate foreshadowing to say whether Morrigan's intentions are "good" or "bad" as that will likely depend on your POV- just as much as you could say siding with Templars or Mages is a good or bad choice. Basically, if Morrigan and her plan is such a big deal, the Warden who romanced her would hold some sway over her in terms of advice/motivation- as much as Morrigan could influence the Warden in DAO.
[/quote]
Well, this basically comes back to original point we've grumbled about for months - starting a new plot arc in the closing moments of the game.

Does Morrigan really have much of an interest in the world at large? Morri's emotions only seem to come to the fore when she's discussing events concerning herself or the Warden (likely expanded to include OGB) - see the threat of Flemeth, the DR, etc. Regarding events with a wider scope, she generally tends to be quite composed and sure of herself. Hence why I'd posit that any scene involving emotional turmoil is likely connected to her ultimate fate specifically or fears for her loever/friend (tying in with her limited time spent as a lover/friend and her dialogue pertaining to it). Since she's spent much of her time alone in the Wilds, I can't see how she'd form any strong sense of attachment to anything other than select individuals. And I naturally concur with you regarding the warden, hence why we've always said they should continue to be part of Morrigan's arc regardless.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, time will tell. Just with some of the things recently about DA2, like Anders being (in my view) retconned as being Bisexual for DA2 (all LI's are Bi apparently, due to the amazing power of Hawke. I've no problem with more diverse LI's but making them all "Bi" just for Hawke just seems like pandering to me, and contrary to all the claims of not making exclusive content no one will see. It just seems like it will water down the characters' identities.).
[/quote]
^This. I'm with you - make them diverse, give me something different for each playthrough, but making them all bi, as you say - it's pandering and imo BioWare is moving into the realm of writing unrealistic characters by doing so. A disappointing move to say the least, if true. I'd much rather see people pushing for a gay-exclusive romance than just making them all bi (no matter what implementation they use to explain it away. As I recall Gaider touted the "they're interested if you are" or something to that effect as the most likely approach).

I dunno, it just feels a bit bizarre to me if say Anders is gay if my character is, yet he's straight otherwise (or vice versa) - it seems like a backwards way of executing the whole thing, I can see the financial reasons for doing it, but still - it's odd. In addition to being the group counsellor, the PC apparently now subliminally dictates the fickle sexual orientation of followers. No doubt it'll be heralded as a huge step forward.

If Anders was the exception rather than the rule though, giving it viable grounding with the possession stuff, that could be interesting. I recall he had a pretty strong preference for the ladies in Awakening, as his broken party banter reiterated, over and over...

I'm not sure it's running contrary to their claims of not making exclusive content, it seems very much in line with it- whereby a quick copy/paste and exchanging of gender-specific pronouns = double romances > instant win. (And yes, I'm simplifying things for this example.)


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
And then you have this article from Game Informer today- "10 Things You Should Know about DA2" where you have this quote:

[quote]
The Free Marches are influenced by the events from the previous game,  but don’t expect every little choice you made in Origins to change the  world. You’ll hear some references in dialogue, and even see a couple  cameos, but Dragon Age isn’t Mass Effect. You won’t be bombarded with  reminders of your previous deeds. Hawke’s story stands apart from the  Grey Warden’s, though it still clearly takes place in the same world.  However, be aware that some minor story points in Origins and Awakening  have been retconned, so even if you import your save, the events of the  previous games aren’t necessarily set in stone.
[/quote]

No canon indeed BioWare.
[/quote]
Ha, "this" after GI's attempts at videogame journalism tossed out the "pc elitists" remark yesterday? Like many articles on the net, it reads like BioWare's PR dept have passed them a list of points they want covered and its been regurgitated on the page verbatim. That so called journalists aren't able to even distinguish and weigh the pros/cons of silent/fully VO PC against each other without prejudice and with some measure of  objectivity tells me about as much as I need to know about the worth of their opinion. I've always said it's "no canon, when it suits" but perhaps, "no canon, no consequences" would be better? We shall see.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
For all the crap he gets, I think Gaider more or less, gets it. Excellent point on the paralells between FLemeth and Morrigan too- there is a ton of content they could explore with Morrigan and the Wardens still. I can't shake the feeling that there was supposed to be more with Origins, like a Witch Hunt expack, and DA: Exodus, a spin off project, was elevated to full on sequel by the suits at EA who wanted DA to be more of an action franchise, thus killing off DAO projects to rush "DA2" out the door so they can keep on with yearly DA games now.
[/quote]
Wouldn't surprise me. Not much to be done about it now though, except hope BW do something with what we've been given.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Again, its fine to explain RPG mechanics better for new people or to help ease them in. Thats great. But don't design the whole game around the premise that your audience consists of a lobotomized chimp and strip out game mechanics to cater towards that new person thats probably going to just stop playing the game after an hour anyway. Thats my issue with so much of what DA2's design seems to consist of- its been done to attract people that did not like Origins, when Origins was BioWare's best selling game to date.
[/quote]
Yeah, as I alluded to earlier, how exactly via telemetry do you discern why someone was "turned off" to the Origins experience within a hour. Judging it based on that and acheivements seems a little bizarre. There's some things that don't seem to match up regarding dates, the concepting process and vision for DA2 and the apparent fan feedback which allegedly instigated most of these changes.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Now was that due to people seeing crap like the Sacred Ashes trailer and thinking it was an action game? Now was that due to people seeing crap like the Sacred Ashes trailer and thinking it was an action game?
[/quote]
You know what, this reminds me of back in the PS1 days - SquareSoft was in love with FMV sequences and used them to promote Final Fantasy VIII via TV commercials. One of the comments from someone I'd describe as a non-gamer was along the lines of "the game's rubbish, the graphics are nothing like on TV." It really puzzled me at the time, you know you'd have the obligatory "graphics not representative of game" on the advert, but simple logic would dictate that the PS1 was simply not capable of the kind of pre-rendered stuff found in the advert. Similarly with the Sacred Ashes trailer, hell ANY trailer, they all exaggerate and embellish core elements of what the game's about in order to grab the attention of the purchaser and that's inclusive of graphics, sound, presentation and gameplay.
Perhaps it's tied in with movie adverts, where the customer obviously finds a 1:1 matchup via the advert/cinema experience and they expect the same from a game. Trailers like Sacred Ashes have always prompted me to look further into the game, ie: find some actual gameplay footage - evidently certain segments of the audience aren't able to gauge the difference between the two.

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
But then you have stuff like skills being stripped, game length and content being stripped, inventory being dumbed down, iso view gone and so forth. And whats replaced that stuff, if anything, are elements from ME or basically elements to keep the game simple. Simple isn't bad, but neither is depth and complexity either.
[/quote]
Exactly, the reason people get so annoyed is we've seen it happen before, time and again. Game length took a hit due to VO. The 10 year timeskip and city-focus is more likely borne out of necessity to reuse assets and locations to develop the game in a short timeframe. Inventory, yeah I'm not even gonna comment on that, like I said I played far more complex games than DA as a child, without any issues - DA is supposed to be aimed at a mature audience who should be able to deduce the functionality of a toggle button, the simplicity of an inventory system and should be able of reading text of a reasonable length without bursting into tears. Quite how these concessions to an apparently idiotic userbase correlate with a game that claims to offer adult relationships with companions, I'm not sure.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
And thats one aspect I'm wary of in DA2- it doesn't seem like there will be too much exploring. Or at least exploring varied environments seeing as we're stuck in Kirkwall most of the time. And while people bring up Athkatla in BG2 as a good example of a city being cool in a RPG, you also had a ton of other areas outside of Athkatla to explore too. Its just rather disappointing since you would seem to be able to travel much more with the 10 years in the framed narrative.
[/quote]
Indeed, the Underdark, the island & Spellhold, the De'Arnise keep, Windspear Hills all immediately spring to mind. I expect we'll be seeing the same areas quite a bit, not long to go though so I'll refrain from saying more...


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, thats my impression too.Whats so disappointing is that DA was supposed to be the franchise that stayed more "old school" while ME and other stuff would branch out as far as genres went. I mean, even in ME you have people complaining about how much dialogue is there, even when its been processed into easily digestable talky bits requiring minimal thought or interaction. They really do seem to be going the JRPG route.
[/quote]
Totally agree, they release it, it sells well, so what better way to build upon that success that stripping a bunch of the stuff people actually liked from the game. And Mass Effect has "too much" dialogue? Too much of Meer rambling on in monotone perhaps but it's pretty damn light on dialogue in comparison with some rpgs I've played, which the average completion time attests to.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Funny enough, after I posted that, Desslock, the former editor of PC Gamer, RPG journalist and big fan of Origins, posted this on the quarter to three forums- he has a copy of DA2 and he's playing through it now:

[quote]
DA2 is just the misnamed sequel to Jade Empire.
[/quote]
[/quote]
Haha, JE had promise but it fell short of its potential - wasn't it the first rpg where BW focused on consoles - an xbox exclusive at first if memory serves. Were it not one of the shortest RPGs I've ever played with notoriously unbalanced combat, ineffective companions and plot twists that are foreshadowed far too early, I might have gave it a passing grade. There was definitely adequate scope and promise for a sequel though. I forget Laidlaw's exact role in the project but I recall he had a hand in it.
 

[quote]Brockololly wrote...
I'd feel a lot better about DA2 if we knew they'd update the toolset. MOst of the issues I have with it seem like they could be addressed by mods. Its not necessarily any one big issue, but more of a host of smaller issues that when taken togethr might morph into a big issue. But mods could hopefully fix some of those.
[/quote]
Yeah, the biggies are the wheel & paraphrasing and the camera. Both of which have distinct failings imo.


[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Aaaah...it really is an apt metaphor for the Morrigan Thread- hopes raised, long delay in getting the goods, only to have hopes dashed when the goods arrive.
[/quote]
Hahahaha, so true


[quote]SPARTAN 089-Gary wrote...
And you can't say he was faking death. My Warden chopped the antonio banderas impersonating Elf's head off clean
[/quote]
Retroactive exaggerated narrative. Thedas is just a stage for Varric's tales.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 05 mars 2011 - 10:02 .

[ejoslin]

I should not have posted this.  Moving along now...

Modifié par ejoslin, 05 mars 2011 - 11:05 .