16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Terra_Ex]

ejoslin wrote...

I should not have posted this.  Moving along now...

Now I'm concerned that I've worded something badly and caused offence... which I sincerely hope is not the case.

[ejoslin]

Terra_Ex wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

I should not have posted this.  Moving along now...

Now I'm concerned that I've worded something badly and caused offence... which I sincerely hope is not the case.

<<snip what my original post was about>> I really enjoy yours and Brock's WoTs.  There's no way you could offend me!

Edit: Someone post something quickly!    Or I'll delete in a few minutes or something

Modifié par ejoslin, 06 mars 2011 - 12:18 .

[LobselVith8]

Brockololly wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...

However, be aware that some minor story points in Origins and Awakening  have been retconned, so even if you import your save, the events of the  previous games aren’t necessarily set in stone.

No canon indeed BioWare. 

As someone who values the idea that our choices and actions are imported, and that our decisions should mean something, this bothers me a great deal. The reason I'm a fan of DA is because I want the world my Grey Warden helped shape to be carried forward in expansions and sequels. This makes me concerned over whether going forward with Morrigan into the Eluvian was the right choice, especially with the spoilers I've read about concerning the "changes" to the elves that make absolutely no sense.

Furthermore, the lack of continuity bothered me since Awakening and Witch Hunt, since the Magi boon being turned down is never referenced, nor is the reason why no independent Circle of Orzammar is formed if the Chantry basically turns down the Hero of Ferelden's boon.

Does this help, ejoslin?

Modifié par LobselVith8, 06 mars 2011 - 09:12 .

[LobselVith8]

I'm hoping we pick up the story about the Warden and Morrigan. I wonder where the Eluvian lead to. Might there be Arlathan elves who are on the "other side"  of this mirror?

Esbatty wrote...

Glorfindel709 wrote...

#Esbatty - My Anders died. The surrounded by a circle of hundreds of Darkspawn all killed by magic ending.

Yeah, they retconned big time.

Oh crap. I didn't even consider that. Yeah you're right. So its like the Ohgren disapproval death being retconned that he "woke up in the bushes" for Awakening. Eesh. At least it has precedent.

If the Epilogues are supposed to be ignored now, why are they included at the end of the games in the first place? Doesn't it make them essentially pointless?

Modifié par LobselVith8, 07 mars 2011 - 02:42 .

[TheBlackBaron]

Terra_Ex wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, hopefully. Funny thing is, somebody found this in the demo files today:


Exodus was DA2's original name, which for a host of reasons seems to work better IMO, than plopping a 2 on the end and calling it done. Really, I think the 2 raises people's expectations as to DA2 being a more direct sequel in the gameplay and story sense, which seems questionable as to how connected DA2 will end up feeling. I just have the feeling that even in DA2, nothing is really going to get resolved or get moved forward to the extent we may want, especially in terms of Morrigan/Flemeth. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I'm ready to be disappointed in the story.

I've seen that before somewhere Brock- a long time ago in fact. They probably thought that another subtitle would confuse people and that "2 = better". With regards to the Morrigan side of things, I concur but I think the Flemeth thing might move along quite a bit - she featured quite heavily in the trailers so if BioWare has employed the old grey matter she might have a larger role in the plot this time. I expect Morri references will be thin on the ground though

One would think that not having numbered sequels would reinforce the party line of "the series is all about Thedas", no? Since I agree with Brock that the "2" seems to imply a direct sequel with plot continuity. 

Not always, of course - KotOR II was not a direct sequel, but it did have a hell of a lot more plot continuity - but still. It would also serve to reinforce the idea of "The Dragon Age" as a setting with diverse multimedia possibilities. 

*sigh* 

Yet more failings from the BioWare-EA marketing department. They've also ALREADY managed to get people worked up over what they imagine ME3 could turn out like. 

Brockololly wrote...
I feel like quoting that whole blog as its spot on in terms of being judicious in using voice and using text and the written word to convey things as well. I mean, for me, some of the more memorable moments in DA were the text moments like the Arcane Warrior or even in ME1 when you encounter that weird Prothean sphere and its all text. I'll quote the blog again:

I mean, just compare the special feelings generated when reading a line like:

“The Presence in the gem is  at first alarmed when it senses your touch. It recoils in fear, and the  images that rush through your mind are ones of imprisonment and  loneliness”

...with the awkward spoken dialogue and exposition near the beginning of the clip:

“Is that blood in there? Who’s I wonder? You’d think it would be all dried up after so long. There must be magic involved!”

Was this dialogue meant to be  Scooby-Doo bad as part of some in-joke at Bioware that they’d all rather be making intelligent text adventures than spoon-fed talkies with  hastily written and recorded dialogue that treats the audience for their adult rated games like children? Who knows? But I found this “text  adventure” sequence magical – the voices, sounds and images I  experienced whilst reading about and interacting with that spirit were  better than anything else I found in the entire game. Point is, this  wasn’t just a simple text adventure – interacting with the visuals,  music, sound (that ambiguous yet suggestive whispering voice!) and text  all added up to something which cannot be experienced in any other  medium (including most games).

Once again, I agree. I've spoken with you on this on many occasions, that scene is a good example, but as I've said before - a particular sequence in Nier (where the game actually switches into a text-adventure style dream sequence) which employs this is nigh-unparalleled in modern gaming. In fact, this occurs on multiple occasions (Nier actually does it better by tying the text in with the music as it progresses) but yeah, you've still got the odd illiterate that cba to read the words on screen. So, yeah a lot of people wouldn't fully appreciate it as they've been conditioned against it.

Well, I agree with this to some extent, but the general spirit of the blog post seems to be that all VO is bad, which I don't believe to be true. Text-based segments such as the bit with the Arcane Warrior crystal stand out precisely because they're uncommon and used effectively when the action dictates it. They're best as excellent spice and seasoning, not the main meat. And no, I don't think being text-based at all means that a game is somehow inherently more intelligent than a game with VO. 

I mean, would Morrigan or Bastila have been anywhere near as memorable without Claudia Black and Jennifer Hale's wonderful voice acting, respectively? 

Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, time will tell. Just with some of the things recently about DA2, like Anders being (in my view) retconned as being Bisexual for DA2 (all LI's are Bi apparently, due to the amazing power of Hawke. I've no problem with more diverse LI's but making them all "Bi" just for Hawke just seems like pandering to me, and contrary to all the claims of not making exclusive content no one will see. It just seems like it will water down the characters' identities.).

^This. I'm with you - make them diverse, give me something different for each playthrough, but making them all bi, as you say - it's pandering and imo BioWare is moving into the realm of writing unrealistic characters by doing so. A disappointing move to say the least, if true. I'd much rather see people pushing for a gay-exclusive romance than just making them all bi (no matter what implementation they use to explain it away. As I recall Gaider touted the "they're interested if you are" or something to that effect as the most likely approach).

I dunno, it just feels a bit bizarre to me if say Anders is gay if my character is, yet he's straight otherwise (or vice versa) - it seems like a backwards way of executing the whole thing, I can see the financial reasons for doing it, but still - it's odd. In addition to being the group counsellor, the PC apparently now subliminally dictates the fickle sexual orientation of followers. No doubt it'll be heralded as a huge step forward.

If Anders was the exception rather than the rule though, giving it viable grounding with the possession stuff, that could be interesting. I recall he had a pretty strong preference for the ladies in Awakening, as his broken party banter reiterated, over and over...

Wait, it's been confirmed that they're all bi, that's not just some inane fan daydream? Last news I had heard was that they went with DA:O's "two straight, two bi" format. 

The Free Marches are influenced by the events from the previous game,  but don’t expect every little choice you made in Origins to change the  world. You’ll hear some references in dialogue, and even see a couple  cameos, but Dragon Age isn’t Mass Effect. You won’t be bombarded with  reminders of your previous deeds. Hawke’s story stands apart from the  Grey Warden’s, though it still clearly takes place in the same world.  However, be aware that some minor story points in Origins and Awakening  have been retconned, so even if you import your save, the events of the  previous games aren’t necessarily set in stone.

I can live with that, so long as the major decisions are left intact. I really couldn't care less about the ramifications of having helped so-and-so sidequest character find such-and-such lost relative or whatever; I care much more that they properly recognize that Alistair and Anora are on the throne, Loghain's dead, and Behlen's being a magnificent bastard in Orzammar and goddamnit, Drake Cousland is off godknowswhere with Morrigan. 

Totally agree, they release it, it sells well, so what better way to build upon that success that stripping a bunch of the stuff people actually liked from the game. And Mass Effect has "too much" dialogue? Too much of Meer rambling on in monotone perhaps but it's pretty damn light on dialogue in comparison with some rpgs I've played, which the average completion time attests to.

I can't imagine my Renegade Shepard with Meer's deadpan delivery. It's now almost essential to my enjoyment of the character. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 06 mars 2011 - 05:48 .

[MKDAWUSS]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, hopefully. Funny thing is, somebody found this in the demo files today:


Exodus was DA2's original name, which for a host of reasons seems to work better IMO, than plopping a 2 on the end and calling it done. Really, I think the 2 raises people's expectations as to DA2 being a more direct sequel in the gameplay and story sense, which seems questionable as to how connected DA2 will end up feeling. I just have the feeling that even in DA2, nothing is really going to get resolved or get moved forward to the extent we may want, especially in terms of Morrigan/Flemeth. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I'm ready to be disappointed in the story.

I've seen that before somewhere Brock- a long time ago in fact. They probably thought that another subtitle would confuse people and that "2 = better". With regards to the Morrigan side of things, I concur but I think the Flemeth thing might move along quite a bit - she featured quite heavily in the trailers so if BioWare has employed the old grey matter she might have a larger role in the plot this time. I expect Morri references will be thin on the ground though

One would think that not having numbered sequels would reinforce the party line of "the series is all about Thedas", no? Since I agree with Brock that the "2" seems to imply a direct sequel with plot continuity. 

Not always, of course - KotOR II was not a direct sequel, but it did have a hell of a lot more plot continuity - but still. It would also serve to reinforce the idea of "The Dragon Age" as a setting with diverse multimedia possibilities. 

And even KOTOR II had it's own subtitle. Several months ago I made a thread regarding how "slap-me-with-a-good-name" the title of Dragon Age II was, and a couple of devs dropped in and gave various answers defending the bland title. Dragon Age: Exodus would have fit a lot better. If people were confused over whether or not it was an EP or standalone, you could have even called it Dragon Age II: Exodus.



One thing I'd like to know is what DAII's reviews are going to (or would) be once the "novelty factor" has worn off and we really get to know the game.

[Esbatty]

@Terra: Thats a sweet figure! We have several import shops downtown and so I pick up random anime/manga figures that import sites want 30 or 40 bucks for, for a fraction of the cost. Its one of the few few perks of living in my sucky town. But I've had a handful of figures take nosedives the Worst was my McFarlane Movie Maniacs Robocop. Foot feel off. Fixed it. Back on shelf. 2 months later both legs broke off. Went online to find a replacement. Teared up at 50 dollar mark up. Will eventually repair him again.

[Esbatty]

In The Land Of Ever is now complete.

A big thanks to everyone who gave me awesome feedback and criticism, and Xi for making me awesome cover art! (I want to commission you to color it once you're done with schoolio, you minx, you.) And thanks to the Bioware Crew for putting out such an awesome awesome game to suck me in to write my first ever fan fic, lol.

[Brockololly]

Some Chantry Morrigan!

MKDAWUSS wrote...

One thing I'd like to know is what DAII's reviews are going to (or would)  be once the "novelty factor" has worn off and we really get to know the game.

The embargo lifts Tuesday so we'll find out  then. I wonder, especially without a toolset, how long DA2 will last. Atleast in terms of replay value and so forth, especially being a shorter game. Hell, I'm finishing up Origins right now for I don't know what  time, and I only just now did the Crime Wave quests. I never even knew  about them before- thats awesome.

My expectations are suitably  low- toss some decent Morrigan speculation fuel in there that doesn't  crap all over the Warden with a decent story and I can be content.

Esbatty wrote...

In The Land Of Ever is now complete.

A big thanks to everyone who gave me awesome feedback and criticism, and  Xi for making me awesome cover art! (I want to commission you to color  it once you're done with schoolio, you minx, you.) And thanks to the   Bioware Crew for putting out such an awesome awesome game to suck me in  to write my first ever fan fic, lol.

Nicely done!
Probably didn't help that I only just read the last chapter and sort of  forgot what was going on, but does the last chapter happen after  Morrigan has had her 2nd kid, and they're getting ready to leave Mirror  World?

Modifié par Brockololly, 07 mars 2011 - 04:42 .

[Esbatty]

Brockololly wrote...

Some Chantry Morrigan!

[

Esbatty wrote...

In The Land Of Ever is now complete.

A big thanks to everyone who gave me awesome feedback and criticism, and  Xi for making me awesome cover art! (I want to commission you to color  it once you're done with schoolio, you minx, you.) And thanks to the   Bioware Crew for putting out such an awesome awesome game to suck me in  to write my first ever fan fic, lol.

Nicely done!
Probably didn't help that I only just read the last chapter and sort of  forgot what was going on, but does the last chapter happen after  Morrigan has had her 2nd kid, and they're getting ready to leave Mirror  World?

Yeah the last chapter is that a teenaged amount of years have passed with Pup and Cub. So yeah Morrigan has given birth to the non-OGB, and Morrigan and the Warden are preparing the way for the way home to Thedas.

Also in about a month or so I'll be releasing Chapter 1 of "Hall of Mirrors" picking up where ITLOE leaves off, which is set post DA2. So thus why I need a couple of weeks to get my Canon "King Cousland" import done first.

[Brockololly]

Esbatty wrote...
Yeah the last chapter is that a teenaged amount of years have passed with Pup and Cub. So yeah Morrigan has given birth to the non-OGB, and Morrigan and the Warden are preparing the way for the way home to Thedas.

Also in about a month or so I'll be releasing Chapter 1 of "Hall of Mirrors" picking up where ITLOE leaves off, which is set post DA2. So thus why I need a couple of weeks to get my Canon "King Cousland" import done first.

Ah, that makes sense. So its like 13 or so years after the previous chapter then?


Oh, and stock up on the insecticide! The DA2 readme file preps you for already known gameplay bugs as well as plot/quest related bugs that break quests! And there is this little gem too:

- In some cases, characters in conversation make inaccurate references to earlier events in Dragon Age II or to the events of Dragon Age: Origins, if you imported a saved game.

Lovely, for all we know DA2 will be chock full of Morri references, but it will all be bugged up the wazoo that we'll never know about them! Basically admitting that they can't get the import process from one game to the next right, what hope is there that anything will be preserved come DA3? Ugh...

Modifié par Brockololly, 07 mars 2011 - 06:04 .

[Zjarcal]

Geez... I knew that we'd have dialogue bugs but for them to be already acknowledged in the readme file... 

Let's hope they are already working on fixing that.

Err... *remembers that hope is forsaken in the Morri thread*

Give us the damn toolset so that we can fix your crap by ourselves!  

Modifié par Zjarcal, 07 mars 2011 - 06:14 .

[Esbatty]

Brockololly wrote...

Esbatty wrote...
Yeah the last chapter is that a teenaged amount of years have passed with Pup and Cub. So yeah Morrigan has given birth to the non-OGB, and Morrigan and the Warden are preparing the way for the way home to Thedas.

Also in about a month or so I'll be releasing Chapter 1 of "Hall of Mirrors" picking up where ITLOE leaves off, which is set post DA2. So thus why I need a couple of weeks to get my Canon "King Cousland" import done first.

Ah, that makes sense. So its like 13 or so years after the previous chapter then?


Oh, and stock up on the insecticide! The DA2 readme file preps you for already known gameplay bugs as well as plot/quest related bugs that break quests! And there is this little gem too:

- In some cases, characters in conversation make inaccurate references to earlier events in Dragon Age II or to the events of Dragon Age: Origins, if you imported a saved game.

Lovely, for all we know DA2 will be chock full of Morri references, but it will all be bugged up the wazoo that we'll never know about them! Basically admitting that they can't get the import process from one game to the next right, what hope is there that anything will be preserved come DA3? Ugh...

Yeah about 14 years will have passed in "Hall of Mirrors", so no diaper changes or bouts of cholic will be involved... outside of the occasional Morrigan embarassing Pup in company, Flemeth-style.

[Glorfindel709]

Wait, Brock... what's the word on the import bugs?

[Brockololly]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Wait, Brock... what's the word on the import bugs?

Just what I quoted above- apparently, if you have preloaded a digital distribution copy of DA2 you can see the ReadMe file. Somebody on Gamespot's forums posted a bunch of already known gameplay issues and plot related bugs in DA2- stuff like if you get object X before starting quest Y, then you won't be able to complete quest Y so make sure you have a saved game before starting quest Y. All that stuff is outlined in the ReadMe for DA2- so its bugs they know about but for whatever reason, they are letting go at launch.

And one of the bullet points for possible plot related bugs is this, taken from the ReadMe:

In some cases, characters in conversation make inaccurate references to earlier events in Dragon Age II or to the events of Dragon Age: Origins, if you imported a saved game.

So it seems they know that imports might not work properly and are saying as much right in the ReadMe- which honestly, for most games, the 'Known Issues' part of the ReadMe is limited to technical/hardware issues, not a laundry list of plot/gameplay bugs to avoid.

Considering how lackluster BioWare was with patching plot bugs for Origins/Awakening, its worrisome to me that *maybe* any Morrigan references will be screwed up.

Modifié par Brockololly, 07 mars 2011 - 07:02 .

[Esbatty]

Brockololly wrote...

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Wait, Brock... what's the word on the import bugs?

Just what I quoted above- apparently, if you have preloaded a digital distribution copy of DA2 you can see the ReadMe file. Somebody on Gamespot's forums posted a bunch of already known gameplay issues and plot related bugs in DA2- stuff like if you get object X before starting quest Y, then you won't be able to complete quest Y so make sure you have a saved game before starting quest Y. All that stuff is outlined in the ReadMe for DA2- so its bugs they know about but for whatever reason, they are letting go at launch.

And one of the bullet points for possible plot related bugs is this, taken from the ReadMe:

In some cases, characters in conversation make inaccurate references to earlier events in Dragon Age II or to the events of Dragon Age: Origins, if you imported a saved game.

So it seems they know that imports might not work properly and are saying as much right in the ReadMe- which honestly, for most games, the 'Known Issues' part of the ReadMe is limited to technical/hardware issues, not a laundry list of plot/gameplay bugs to avoid.

Considering how lackluster BioWare was with patching plot bugs for Origins/Awakening, its worrisome to me that *maybe* any Morrigan references will be screwed up.

Well it appears Witch Hunt flags will carry over properly, Morri references or not, so those matter to me the most for any future DA sequels

[Glorfindel709]

....I swear to the Creators that if my playthrough import gets buggy and it decides that the things I did in DA:O didnt really matter and apparently Loghain became a big damn hero and Morrigan got killed by the Warden or what have you, I'm taking my copy of the game, carving it into a shuriken and throwing it at MLs' head.

You do NOT release a game with that laundry list of bugs while advertising it as a game where you can import your decisions from the last one. This is such BS, I cannot believe that any self-respecting game producers would deliver a product so bugged to their apparently beloved fans that it requires a ReadMe file with a laundry list of "This will fubar the gorram plot, try to avoid."

And thanks to the retarded Microsoft/Sony war, one console wont be patched for things until the others also have the patches and with Microsofts more retarded size limitation on patches, you can bet that the 360 version is going to be sucking the ever living crap out of the game.

URGH!

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Just what I quoted above- apparently, if you have preloaded a digital distribution copy of DA2 you can see the ReadMe file. Somebody on Gamespot's forums posted a bunch of already known gameplay issues and plot related bugs in DA2- stuff like if you get object X before starting quest Y, then you won't be able to complete quest Y so make sure you have a saved game before starting quest Y. All that stuff is outlined in the ReadMe for DA2- so its bugs they know about but for whatever reason, they are letting go at launch.

So we have 4 potential bugs related to quests, all of which can be avoided if you know about them in advance, which we do now thanks to the readme file. Considering the amount of bugs in Origins and Awakening that we didn't know about until the game was out, these 4 are hardly a problem.
Simply save at the start of the quest and reload if something goes wrong. If these are the only bugs in the game, then we have little to worry about.

The import bug is the only major concern, but hopefully Bioware will get to fixing that one asap, just as they did the DR and autosave bugs in Witch Hunt.

If there's one good thing about Bioware and it's games, it's that there has never been a bug so far that you couldn't get around in some way. And after having to navigate the nightamare that was Awakening, the DA2 bugs look like a joke.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 07 mars 2011 - 10:30 .

[Glorfindel709]

Master Shori - the problem is that looking at Biowares history, we know about these four bugs but lord knows how many more we're going to find infecting some quest or area or what have you *shrugs*

[Esbatty]

Gah... hmm, I hope there is a day 1 patch, if not. Dammit thats gonna slow things up for a canon playthrough. Hmm, guess I should just use a run I'm not too attached to like my Renard Amell run. Yeah, that run was for just the fact he is related to Hawke straight up.

[Glorfindel709]

Haha nice Esbatty - and yeah, I'm thinking of just doing a trial run for my first playthrough until they get a patch in to fix any import issues. I want my canon playthrough to be as pure as possible :-p

[Esbatty]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Haha nice Esbatty - and yeah, I'm thinking of just doing a trial run for my first playthrough until they get a patch in to fix any import issues. I want my canon playthrough to be as pure as possible :-p

Yeah Renard wasn't a very nice guy. Golems, Werewolves, Bhelen, the whole jerkwad shebang. So it should be interesting considering he made Alistair King because he couldn't be King himself. Stupid magic-haters. But Morrigan loved the hell out of him - although he rethought his stance on Golems when the whole Harvester thing went down and his lovely Shapeshifting counterpart was off birthing his little Blighter.

[Glorfindel709]

Ive just been unable to rationalize trusting Branka with the Anvil myself... crazy nughumper....

And I usually don't bring Morrigan into the Deep Roads with me for that very reason. Though her support of the Anvil always confused me... for someone who so values independence and freedom, to wish the use of an object whose only ability is to enslave the soul of whoevers used on it seems strange.

[Esbatty]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Ive just been unable to rationalize trusting Branka with the Anvil myself... crazy nughumper....

And I usually don't bring Morrigan into the Deep Roads with me for that very reason. Though her support of the Anvil always confused me... for someone who so values independence and freedom, to wish the use of an object whose only ability is to enslave the soul of whoevers used on it seems strange.

Its the promise of power. A near immortal army at your beckon call made up of people who refuse to rise up and fight the class system that renders them essentially slaves. I mean she pulls the same way during the Alienage Slavery ring where you're offered extended life by that POS Tevinter Mage.

So I fully understand her reasoning, and so did Renard. But still he didn't lengthen his life with the elf slaves, no because Shianni was kinda cute and ya never know

[ejoslin]

Zjarcal wrote...

Geez... I knew that we'd have dialogue bugs but for them to be already acknowledged in the readme file... 

Let's hope they are already working on fixing that.

Err... *remembers that hope is forsaken in the Morri thread*

Give us the damn toolset so that we can fix your crap by ourselves!  

Click on ZDF's link in my signature.  Look at the long list of dialog bugs it repairs.  Realize it doesn't touch Morrigan.

Yeh.  They're going to get right on fixing things.

*grin*  I'm not even getting DA2 until it drops in price. 

Edit: It's a depressing (for me) thing.  EVERY piece of news about DA2 that I've come across has made me go, "GAH!  Well, at least I hope they don't do 'x'" and then the next piece of news is them doing 'x'.  I went from super excited to somewhat to not at all.  The latest I've read, some of the huge spoilers, have convinced me not to buy until I get some serious reassurance.

DG does not like happy endings.  DG wrote one romance in DAO with a happy happy ending.  I have a feeling things will change! 

Modifié par ejoslin, 07 mars 2011 - 12:33 .