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[TJPags]

Zjarcal wrote...

TJPags wrote...
Sorry - little pissed off by the BDF right now. 

BDF?

Is this some kind of Morri thread lingo that I'm unaware of? 

No no - I'm pretty new here, don't know much Morri thread lingo.

It's my shorthand for Bioware Defense Force, those who excuse anything and everything Bioware does because . . well, because Bioware did it.  Found often these days in any thread expressing any type of criticism about DA2.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Brockololly wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Heh.

The Morrigan thread is becoming the Theoden to Dragon Age 2's Ork Army.
Nerd Reference FTW.

There are going to be casualties here though



I can feel it.

[MKDAWUSS]

TJPags wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

TJPags wrote...
Sorry - little pissed off by the BDF right now. 

BDF?

Is this some kind of Morri thread lingo that I'm unaware of? 

No no - I'm pretty new here, don't know much Morri thread lingo.

It's my shorthand for Bioware Defense Force, those who excuse anything and everything Bioware does because . . well, because Bioware did it.  Found often these days in any thread expressing any type of criticism about DA2.

I guess I'll have to stick any DA2 criticisms either in here or that one DA2 rants/disappointments thread from way back when lol. I'm sure I'll have some.

[KnightofPhoenix]

TJPags wrote...
No no - I'm pretty new here, don't know much Morri thread lingo.

It's my shorthand for Bioware Defense Force, those who excuse anything and everything Bioware does because . . well, because Bioware did it.  Found often these days in any thread expressing any type of criticism about DA2.

I rarely go there, but I can pretty much imagine the catchphrase of the BDF:

"You just hate change! Lulz",

[Lord_Anthonior]

cmessaz wrote...

Merilsell wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Can I hide in here until DA2 comes out?

The game makes me nervous, the fact that there are "known bugs" which may not get fixed makes me nervous, and the DA2 boards have gotten . .  .well, I think insane is the proper term. 

Me too? Or let me rephrase that: Can I hide here when DA2 is out? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]

I'm just a little Alistair- loving woman who loves to ramble about her FF/ main char who is a FMahariel and best friend with Morrigan because she is AWESOME and stuff. So I'll do no harm, promised. Also I'm very skeptical of DA2 and have enough of getting yelled at for not unconditionally loving this BEST GAME EVAH.

Umm yeah...

Um... I've never post in here but I wanted to say...I was in no way "getting on your back" about not liking DA2, I was simply stating that it was in the wrong thread...and causing discomfort for the people who ARE looking forward to it.

Sorry to slow down the Morrigan squee. Please continue.

Yeah, I've seen before about the topics and don't go about something in the wrong thread, at least it keeps things simple. I'm confident that THE Morri Thread won't succumb or be at risk of any downfall any time soon, still, as Terra have said, "hope has forsaken this land"  but the mega post shall keep this Thread as great in Discussions and in Quality. :happy:

Though I don't know why would anyone need to hide while the game comes out? All that it needs to be done is just stay away of the DA2 threads to avoid spoilers "' 'Tis trully simple" as my beloved sorceress would say,  unless we can actually find something really good and interesting in the game about Morrigan, Flemeth, rituals and hints for the next game. Tomorrow DA2 is released and I'm already looking forwards for DA3 hehehe.

[TJPags]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

TJPags wrote...
No no - I'm pretty new here, don't know much Morri thread lingo.

It's my shorthand for Bioware Defense Force, those who excuse anything and everything Bioware does because . . well, because Bioware did it.  Found often these days in any thread expressing any type of criticism about DA2.

I rarely go there, but I can pretty much imagine the catchphrase of the BDF:

"You just hate change! Lulz",

Got it in one!! Well done. 

But, on topic. . . . Do we think Morrigan knew Flemeth couldn't "die" before she sent us off to "kill" her?

(I don't want to get this thread locked for being OT)

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lord_Anthonior wrote...
Yeah, I've seen before about the topics and don't go about something in the wrong thread, at least it keeps things simple. I'm confident that THE Morri Thread won't succumb or be at risk of any downfall any time soon, still, as Terra have said, "hope has forsaken this land"  but the mega post shall keep this Thread as great in Discussions and in Quality. :happy:

Yes, I think the thread will remain active. Yea I know, a thread characterized bycivility, actual discussion and mega posts surviving. Shocking. I don't know if this is a testemony to Morrigan or the posters (Brock and Terra and others). Or both. But we're awesome, so have a proud smiling Morrigan



Since Morrigan is obviously not done, I suspect the thread will remain active. And I for one will be looking for all kind of clues about Morrigan in DA2.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 08 mars 2011 - 01:01 .

[MKDAWUSS]

TJPags wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

TJPags wrote...
No no - I'm pretty new here, don't know much Morri thread lingo.

It's my shorthand for Bioware Defense Force, those who excuse anything and everything Bioware does because . . well, because Bioware did it.  Found often these days in any thread expressing any type of criticism about DA2.

I rarely go there, but I can pretty much imagine the catchphrase of the BDF:

"You just hate change! Lulz",

Got it in one!! Well done. 

But, on topic. . . . Do we think Morrigan knew Flemeth couldn't "die" before she sent us off to "kill" her?

(I don't want to get this thread locked for being OT)

It's possible, but if she was in on it, the next question would be "why?" Also, I think Morrigan even mentions that she might not be dead after you kill her. It just... bought Morrigan some time, so to speak. It's interesting that in the developing story arc, she seems to be the big wildcard - even bigger than Flemeth.

[Lord_Anthonior]

TJPags wrote...
Got it in one!! Well done. 

But, on topic. . . . Do we think Morrigan knew Flemeth couldn't "die" before she sent us off to "kill" her?

(I don't want to get this thread locked for being OT)

Of course she knew!! there is a dialogue when Morrigan talks about getting ready for the time when Flemeth returns, at least it will take her time to recover her full strength wich is something I already have an idea regarding DA2 and Flemeth cravings for possesions, so as it is obvious of How smart Morrigan is she does know she will have to prepare herself when the time arrives.

(Yes, this Thread actually is way too great to get it locked)

That's when the Warden can tell her "I will always protect you Morrigan" because she told the Warden Flemeth will return eventually.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes, I think the thread will
remain active. Yea I know, a thread characterized bycivility, actual
discussion and mega posts surviving. Shocking. I don't know if this is a
testemony to Morrigan or the posters (Brock and Terra and others). Or
both. But we're awesome, so have a proud smiling Morrigan

../../../uploads_user/57000/56308/66594.jpg

Since
Morrigan is obviously not done, I suspect the thread will remain
active. And I for one will be looking for all kind of clues about
Morrigan in DA2.

That is basically my reason for buying DA2 (though I might not be able to post any pics or video since I'm getting it for PS3), is to get clues and hints of what is to come. I will enjoy DA2 of course but I do have my own reasons why I'm continuing with the story and is all about because of that smile and her chuckles and part in the bigger picture.

We ARE awesome, she IS Awesome, this is an awesome  thread so yeah, no downfall nor lockdown and it is indeed a testimony. I do however want to see in the game what I read in the spoilers thread regarding Flemeth and someone else since Morrigan is out of reach thanks to the Warden. I Have the feeling it's going to be a matter of "the ball on one side of the court and then the other" regarding Flemeth's habits. 

Modifié par Lord_Anthonior, 08 mars 2011 - 01:13 .

[Curlain]

TJPags wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

TJPags wrote...
No no - I'm pretty new here, don't know much Morri thread lingo.

It's my shorthand for Bioware Defense Force, those who excuse anything and everything Bioware does because . . well, because Bioware did it.  Found often these days in any thread expressing any type of criticism about DA2.

I rarely go there, but I can pretty much imagine the catchphrase of the BDF:

"You just hate change! Lulz",

Got it in one!! Well done. 

But, on topic. . . . Do we think Morrigan knew Flemeth couldn't "die" before she sent us off to "kill" her?

(I don't want to get this thread locked for being OT)

If I remember I think she said she didn't think Flemeth would be truly dead even when the Warden killed her but that it would by her time to learn secrets from the Grimoire and prepare from Flemeth's return (though it's possible this was in the convo after the battle)
Edit: ninja'd above 

@KnightofPhoenix - you must be psychic 

Modifié par Curlain, 08 mars 2011 - 01:05 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

I think the whole side-quest is shrouded in mystery. To what extent was Morrigan acting in self-defense? Did she already have a plan in mind to turn on Flemeth after acquiring the OGB? Does Flemeth really need to possess the body of others (Morrigan in WH made it sound like she is beyond such things,  or at least that's the impression I got)?

Personally, I think the "schism" between Morrigan and Flemeth had its origins way before Morrigan potentially got the Grimoire (which she may never get anyways). The impression I got from WH, but also from the Orlesian court epilogue slide, is that Morrigan has a plan in mind she is following and is not acting randomly. 
 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 08 mars 2011 - 01:22 .

[TJPags]

Yes, when does that conversation take place? Right after you kill her, when you talk to Morrigan again? Or later in the game?

The only complaint I've seen most people make about her boils down to her being too secretive to trust . . .

[MKDAWUSS]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I think the whole side-quest is shrouded in mystery. To what extent was Morrigan acting in self-defense? Did she already have a plan in mind to turn on Flemeth after acquiring the OGB? Does Flemeth really need to possess the body of others (Morrigan in WH made it sound like she is beyond such things,  or at least that's the impression I got)?

Personally, I think the "schism" between Morrigan and Flemeth had its origins way before Morrigan potentially got the Grimoire (which they may never get anyways). The impression I got from WH, but also from the Orlesian court epilogue slide, is that Morrigan has a plan in mind she is following and is not acting randomly. 
 

But is it really an actual schism? That, I think is the big question in the Morrigan-Flemeth relationship/sub-plot. She could be acting alongside Flemeth rather than in her own interests. In Origins she pretty much carries out her mother's plan - it was Flemeth who ordered Morrigan to tag along and perform the DR.

[TJPags]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I think the whole side-quest is shrouded in mystery. To what extent was Morrigan acting in self-defense? Did she already have a plan in mind to turn on Flemeth after acquiring the OGB? Does Flemeth really need to possess the body of others (Morrigan in WH made it sound like she is beyond such things,  or at least that's the impression I got)?

Personally, I think the "schism" between Morrigan and Flemeth had its origins way before Morrigan potentially got the Grimoire (which they may never get anyways). The impression I got from WH, but also from the Orlesian court epilogue slide, is that Morrigan has a plan in mind she is following and is not acting randomly. 
 

Orlesian Court epilogue slide?    To what do you refer?

And don't you know epilogue slides are meaningless, anyway?

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ MKD
Well she does say that Flemeth is the threat in WH, and she warns us of her. But you're right, she could be lying to get attention away from her.

@ TJPags.
If you don't do the DR, she goes of to Orlais and infiltrates the Imperial Court. Since she shows up in WH anyways, and seems to be hunting artifacts and the like, I speculated that she did so to get some sort of object from Orlais. But the last part is pure speculation (the epilogue slide can very well be meaningless, like you said).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 08 mars 2011 - 01:19 .

[Curlain]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I think the whole side-quest is shrouded in mystery. To what extent was Morrigan acting in self-defense? Did she already have a plan in mind to turn on Flemeth after acquiring the OGB? Does Flemeth really need to possess the body of others (Morrigan in WH made it sound like she is beyond such things,  or at least that's the impression I got)?

Personally, I think the "schism" between Morrigan and Flemeth had its origins way before Morrigan potentially got the Grimoire (which they may never get anyways). The impression I got from WH, but also from the Orlesian court epilogue slide, is that Morrigan has a plan in mind she is following and is not acting randomly. 
 

But is it really an actual schism? That, I think is the big question in the Morrigan-Flemeth relationship/sub-plot. She could be acting alongside Flemeth rather than in her own interests. In Origins she pretty much carries out her mother's plan - it was Flemeth who ordered Morrigan to tag along and perform the DR.

I suspect both are true to some extent, Morrigan is working in concert with Flemeth's plans for much or Origins, but is also working her own agenda, which comes more and more to the fore as the game progresses.  By WH it sounds as if they are at least in Morrigan's mind enemies even if they share a similar view on the change coming to Thedas.  I think this power she requires to raise the OGB that she finds through the Eluvian mirrors may also be to protect herself and said child from Flemeth's influence, and I wonder if this place is Arlathan (sp?) as I remember in the Dalish origin Tamlan saying he saw a city underground through the mirror, and the Codex on Arlathan said the Tevinter mages buried it with their power.  But then, she also said it (the mirrors) led beyond the Fade so prehaps not

[TJPags]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ MKD
Well she does say that Flemeth is the threat in WH, and she warns us of her. But you're right, she could be lying to get attention away from her.

@ TJPags.
If you don't do the DR, she goes of to Orlais and infiltrates the Imperial Court. Since she shows up in WH anyways, and seems to be hunting artifacts and the like, I speculated that she did so to get some sort of object from Orlais. But the last part is pure speculation (the epilogue slide can very well be meaningless, like you said).

Ahhh . . .I've never NOT done the DR.  Seems kind of dumb to me to die when I don't have to. 

[Lord_Anthonior]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I think the whole side-quest is shrouded in mystery. To what extent was Morrigan acting in self-defense? Did she already have a plan in mind to turn on Flemeth after acquiring the OGB? Does Flemeth really need to possess the body of others (Morrigan in WH made it sound like she is beyond such things,  or at least that's the impression I got)?

Personally, I think the "schism" between Morrigan and Flemeth had its origins way before Morrigan potentially got the Grimoire (which they may never get anyways). The impression I got from WH, but also from the Orlesian court epilogue slide, is that Morrigan has a plan in mind she is following and is not acting randomly. 
 

But is it really an actual schism? That, I think is the big question in the Morrigan-Flemeth relationship/sub-plot. She could be acting alongside Flemeth rather than in her own interests. In Origins she pretty much carries out her mother's plan - it was Flemeth who ordered Morrigan to tag along and perform the DR.

Yes, but I believe Morrigan was okay with the plans before she learned about Flemeth's possesions of other "sisters", I think right there the plan and the strategy changed for Morrigan and switch from a paired-planned into an individual plan, probably that's why she leaves through the Eluvian (not alone hehehe) as long Flemeth still exist Morrigan might always feel in danger and she is just buying time to get ready for her or untill finally Flemeth cease to exist.

Also, Morrigan always tries to hide her words when asked about "what she wants", but not in her facial gestures, she wants something and she must do something and the child is just the means to that end wich so far I doubt are evil for she still refers to the OGB as the Warden's son and an inocent.

I also want to see what Flemeth meant about "without and end, there can't be no peace" because I also doubt THAT was meant for Aveline during the Demo and is instead meant about another thing. Morrigan is one character that Does act, plans and is determined to execute with the exception of falling in love while at it and unable or unwilling to stop that. "Harder words I have never spoken" she didn't want the Warden not to follow but the plans and the goal demand it but was glad she went through with the Warden as in comparisson when she turns if the Warden stays behind. 

-Okay, gotta continue with the game, I have to pay a visit to the alienage and then the landsmeet, I have a Mac Tir to keep in the Throne and to import that to DA2 and I'm still a long way to go till I reach Witch Hunt. I'm gonna finish the game and right after that start DA2 as if the time between games never passed.  

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lord_Anthonior wrote...
I also want to see what Flemeth meant about "without and end, there can't be no peace" because I also doubt THAT was meant for Aveline during the Demo and is instead meant about another thing.

I got a Sith "Peace is a lie" vibe to it.
I interpretted it as to mean that the world is constant struggle and strife, until one dies or is ended.

[Terra_Ex]

TJPags wrote...
But, on topic. . . . Do we think Morrigan knew Flemeth couldn't "die" before she sent us off to "kill" her?

Yes since one of her dialogues in Origins indicates as much, but at that time Morrigan probably thinks that Flemeth can be taken out of the picture long enough to shift the balance of power a little. In WH we see a Morrigan who is definitely more worried than she was post-Flemeth's death. Maybe that'll tie in with the thing Flemeth wants Hawke to deliver.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes, I think the thread will remain active. Yea I know, a thread characterized bycivility, actual discussion and mega posts surviving. Shocking. I don't know if this is a testemony to Morrigan or the posters (Brock and Terra and others). Or both. But we're awesome, so have a proud smiling Morrigan



Since Morrigan is obviously not done, I suspect the thread will remain active. And I for one will be looking for all kind of clues about Morrigan in DA2.

Smiling Morri ftw [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie] And I agree with everything that you've posted above Knight.

MKDAWUSS wrote...

But is it really an actual schism? That, I think is the big question in the Morrigan-Flemeth relationship/sub-plot. She could be acting alongside Flemeth rather than in her own interests. In Origins she pretty much carries out her mother's plan - it was Flemeth who ordered Morrigan to tag along and perform the DR.

I think it is, albeit one Flemeth saw coming and Morri will likely fall into a trap further down the line. There's also the possibility it was some kind of set up by Flemeth to lure Morrigan into making a play for power via the OGB, whereby Morrigan thinks she's breaking out of Flemeth's web but is unknowingly still playing into it somehow. Flemeth likely raised Morri to be the way she is precisely to manipulate her in such a way. That said, I still think that Morri will be the one to make or break Flemeth and her plans somewhere down the line. I'd like to think the interactions she has with the warden as a friend/lover will shape events down the line, but I've posted huge diatribes on that before.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

Bah, its too late at night to think about this, maybe tomorrow I'll post something coherent.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 08 mars 2011 - 01:42 .

[Brockololly]

Merilsell wrote...
And to soothe your nerves after my bunch of whining (lol) Have a Morri with her BFF:

Nifty! I always like Morrigan in red colored clothing like that!

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Heh.

The Morrigan thread is becoming the Theoden to Dragon Age 2's Ork Army.
Nerd Reference FTW.

There are going to be casualties here though



I can feel it.

*sigh*

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I rarely go there, but I can pretty much imagine the catchphrase of the BDF:

"You just hate change! Lulz",

My favorite is when people try to extrapolate Morrigan's speech about change in Witch Hunt as secretly being one big reference to the changes in DA2.

But yeah, lets try to limit the BDF stuff as thats a sure way to get the thread locked.

Lord_Anthonior wrote...
(Yes, this Thread actually is way too great to get it locked)

Well, we did get locked back when we were going off the deep end when DA2 was announced. It was only through various dark rituals and blood magic that I was able to get the thread resurrected:wizard:

MKDAWUSS wrote...
But is it  really an actual schism? That, I think is the big question in the  Morrigan-Flemeth relationship/sub-plot. She could be acting alongside  Flemeth rather than in her own interests. In Origins she pretty much  carries out her mother's plan - it was Flemeth who ordered Morrigan to  tag along and perform the DR.

Its a good question as to whether or not Morrigan is still in league with Flemeth somehow or whether she is legitimately striking out on her own. I think in large part it depends on whether or not the story of FLemeth stealing her daughter's bodies is true. If she genuinely was going to steal Morrigan's body, then I would definitely think Morrigan is possibly just using Flemeth's plans for the OGB now to her own ends. Of course, if the whole body snatching tale was a lie, then who knows?

Then again, I always wonder during the DR scene when you can ask Morrigan about the Ritual, she says how its from her mother and how of course she trusts that it will work...so wait- why would you trust the magic of your mother when you supposedly learned that your mother wanted to steal your body?

I just think it would be terribly lame for BioWare to sort of pull a GOTCHA! moment with Morrigan actually having been in cahoots with Flemeth all along. Thats kind of my problem with the Dark Ritual scene and Morrigan's motivations there: you knew she was up to something throughout the course of Origins, but you were given zero hints she wanted an OGB. So would BioWare do something similarly slippery in the future? Thats the problem with Morrigan and Flemeth really- we still have next to NO idea what they're goals/plans are, despite having spent a good amount of time with them in game.

Terra_Ex wrote...
I think it is, albeit
one Flemeth saw coming and Morri will likely fall into a trap further
down the line. There's also the possibility it was some kind of set up
by Flemeth to lure Morrigan into making a play for power via the OGB,
whereby Morrigan thinks she's breaking out of Flemeth's web but is
unknowingly still playing into it somehow. Flemeth likely raised Morri
to be the way she is precisely to manipulate her in such a way. That
said, I still think that Morri will be the one to make or break Flemeth
and her plans somewhere down the line. I'd like to think the
interactions she has with the warden as a friend/lover will shape events
down the line, but I've posted huge diatribes on that before.

Yeah, I wonder if BioWare doesn't play up some sort of morality spin on whatever Morrigan is doing such that for all her confidence, she gets in over her head and falls into Flemeth's plans. Flemeth just seems super duper powerful and herself overly confident in her seeming ability to see future events.

As you've brought up before though, there are parallels between Flemeth's sort of "origin" story with Osen and Connobar and possibly Morrigan and the Warden. So maybe Flemeth, clouded by her own past experience, assumes Morrigan will just act as she would have done or as she taught her, and given her experiences with the Warden, Morrigan puts just enough of a wrinkle in her plan so that it throws off Flemeth?

Modifié par Brockololly, 08 mars 2011 - 01:54 .

[IndigoWolfe]

Okay, good news; I finished my emergency re-playthrough of the end Origins through Witch Hunt and got it free of bugs, ready for my import into Dragon Age 2 --which I think I should just come out and say I plan on playing and enjoying to the fullest extent.

[IndigoWolfe]

Merilsell wrote...
And to soothe your nerves after my bunch of whining (lol) Have a Morri with her BFF:

Is this a shot of a modded Morrigan in addition to being from the PC version? Because she's looking even more gorgeous than usual here.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Brockololly wrote...
I just think it would be terribly lame for BioWare to sort of pull a GOTCHA! moment with Morrigan actually having been in cahoots with Flemeth all along. Thats kind of my problem with the Dark Ritual scene and Morrigan's motivations there: you knew she was up to something throughout the course of Origins, but you were given zero hints she wanted an OGB. So would BioWare do something similarly slippery in the future? Thats the problem with Morrigan and Flemeth really- we still have next to NO idea what they're goals/plans are, despite having spent a good amount of time with them in game.

While I share your concern to an extent, I am also concerned that they would now make Morrigan into an altruistic angel of hope vs the demon Flemeth. In otherwords, more black-white nonsense.

If there is a schism between the two, I hope it's more nuanced. And something more than just Morrigan being the "lesser of two evils" thing.

[Brockololly]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Okay, good news; I finished my emergency re-playthrough of the end Origins through Witch Hunt and got it free of bugs, ready for my import into Dragon Age 2 --which I think I should just come out and say I plan on playing and enjoying to the fullest extent.

Nice! Did you have to redownload Witch Hunt to get it to work?

And I'm looking forward to DA2 as well, for all the negativity its getting. I hope its as good as Origins, but we will see. That said, I'm probably more looking forward to getting my new sound card and Sennheiser headphones tomorrow than DA2:wizard:

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
While I share your concern to an
extent, I am also concerned that they would now make Morrigan into an
altruistic angel of hope vs the demon Flemeth. In otherwords, more
black-white nonsense.

If there is a schism between the two, I
hope it's more nuanced. And something more than just Morrigan being the
"lesser of two evils" thing.

Sure- Morrigan and FLemeth are interesting because they don't seem to be completely black and white.

It would be nice if there is some struggle between the 2 its maybe more a matter of personal motivations expressed on a large scale. Sort of how there aren't any pure good/bad sides in Song of Ice and Fire, just characters with different motivations, working for mostly their own goals. So maybe Morrigan wants to do something with the OGB while Flemeth seeks something else- each side has their negatives or questionable aspects while also having their more positive qualities.

Modifié par Brockololly, 08 mars 2011 - 02:01 .