16183 réponses à ce sujet

[ejoslin]

MoSa09 wrote...

@ejoslin: Merrill is more or less the same. I believe that was done intentional, so the romance climax, despite its progress happens in act 3. A little cryptic, but i want to keep it spoiler free

Ah, ok.  I assume you're talking about the issue with Anders.  The one with Fenris is FAR more inexplicable.  It's just that it's too long a time skip.  

Anyway, I still think the romances I've seen in DA2 are very emotionally engaging.

Edit: I could post a ToP of Morrigan, but I don't suppose anyone here REALLY wants to see her kissing Zevran...

Modifié par ejoslin, 16 mars 2011 - 11:44 .

[MoSa09]

ejoslin wrote...

Ah, ok.  I assume you're talking about the issue with Anders.  The one with Fenris is FAR more inexplicable.  It's just that it's too long a time skip.  

yes, was talking about the issue you had with Anders. Sorry for not making that clear.

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: I could post a ToP of Morrigan, but I don't suppose anyone here REALLY wants to see her kissing Zevran...

if this is a public vote, then mine is: NO No one kissing her but me, especially not Assassins that my Warden killed in Origins and that well, lets say i am not happy how my decision played out in DA 2

[KnightofPhoenix]

ejoslin wrote...
Edit: I could post a ToP of Morrigan, but I don't suppose anyone here REALLY wants to see her kissing Zevran...

No.

[Glorfindel709]

As I romance the other dark haired mage in a Dragon Age game, I find myself disappointed in the romances in DA2. I dunno, I guess it's just because no one can really match the morrigan romance but I just wish there were more opportunities to actually talk with the companions and learn more about them  in the romance. The companion quest conversations really arent nearly enough.

*shrugs* I miss Morrigan

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 17 mars 2011 - 01:17 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

[Glorfindel709]

Sten is better than the Arishok. :-p



And KoP, you were right about how I would probably hate Act 3...... the characterization and development of the mage/templar conflict is really pissing me off in how poorly written it really is. 

I am playing as an apostate mage - naturally my inclination is to side against the Templars (and my damn fool of a brother). But there are not redeeming qualities to the mages we actually meet in game. Every single one of them so far into the act has been either insane, a maleficar, or an abomination waiting to happen. It is not only depressing in regards towards how the story will develop, but it's also such a huge disappointment. I really hoped that there would be greater development of the mage/templar conflict.

"Mages aren't all maleficar or abominations waiting to happen! They can be worked with! Meredith and the Templars are all abusive jerks!" And yet every Mage Ive encountered in the game is either insane, a maleficar, or an abomination waiting to happen. It's just lazy story telling >.<

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 17 mars 2011 - 02:03 .

[MKDAWUSS]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

As I romance the other dark haired mage in a Dragon Age game, I find myself disappointed in the romances in DA2. I dunno, I guess it's just because no one can really match the morrigan romance but I just wish there were more opportunities to actually talk with the companions and learn more about them  in the romance. The companion quest conversations really arent nearly enough.

*shrugs* I miss Morrigan

Especially when taking into context that it's supposed to be over an extended period of time.

BTW, how are we supposed to know if the Morrigan romance carried over? I saw that my Warden's origins was visible in "The Hero of Ferelden" codex entry along with a few other things, but it made no mention of his relationships...

[KnightofPhoenix]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Sten is better than the Arishok. :-p

No. And even Sten would agree.

Speaking of which. What do you think the Arishok's reaction would be to Morrigan flirting with him?

[TheBlackBaron]

ejoslin wrote...
One thing that I didn't think I'd like about DA2 which I love now is that you find out many more things about your companions through banters with each other instead of talking to them privately.  You still have some personal conversations with them, but you just learn so much about them running around with them.  Plus they're more talkative to quest givers and such.

Yeah, I never had as much of a problem with the Awakening dialogue system as I know some people did, but I think it really works here. It's definitely one area where I can say DA2 is superior to both DA:O and ME2. 

EDIT: Rage...grey text isn't working for me. Spoiler-responses below. 

Edit: **SPOILERS HERE WITH REGARDS TO THE MALE LIs**  If this doesn't gray out properly (it doesn't always) I'll erase.  These are major romance spoilers.

The problem with Anders is they agree to move in together, but you don't give him the key to the place until the beginning of act 3.  So you have you two in act 2 agreeing to live together, but it doesn't happen for three years.

The problem with Fenris is he has a serious issue with intimacy and runs out on Hawke, but to get back together with him, you must remain faithful.  That means that Fenris and Hawke are pining for each other for three years, without a relationship going on.  I rationalized it by thinking they got back together, but backed way off.  It still is just too long of a cooling off period. 

Hope it works here as well. 

That's definitely awkward with Anders. With Merrill, she doesn't appear in the house during Act II, but the codex from the start of Act III does imply that she moved in shortly after the climax of said act (that duel with the Arishok was a ****, but it was fun) and has been living there throughout the three-year interval. It's actually very funny - it mentions how the neighbors were scandalized by her moving in "and not as a servant", and how she wandered around the nighberhood barefoot, picking flowers, and "cooing at attack dogs". 

I think Isabela has a similar situation to Fenris, actually. The wiki says she's the only one that never actually moves in, and regardless of whether she comes back to give the qunari their relic she still dissappears afterwards and only resurfaces at the beginning of Act III - again, according to the codex. 

Do agree, though, three years is an abnormally long "cooling off period". Very strange they wouldn't at least throw something in there about them being off and on, or having gotten back together during the interval, or something. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 17 mars 2011 - 01:59 .

[ejoslin]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
One thing that I didn't think I'd like about DA2 which I love now is that you find out many more things about your companions through banters with each other instead of talking to them privately.  You still have some personal conversations with them, but you just learn so much about them running around with them.  Plus they're more talkative to quest givers and such.

Yeah, I never had as much of a problem with the Awakening dialogue system as I know some people did, but I think it really works here. It's definitely one area where I can say DA2 is superior to both DA:O and ME2. 

EDIT: Rage...grey text isn't working for me. Spoiler-responses below. 

Edit: **SPOILERS HERE WITH REGARDS TO THE MALE LIs**  If this doesn't gray out properly (it doesn't always) I'll erase.  These are major romance spoilers.

The problem with Anders is they agree to move in together, but you don't give him the key to the place until the beginning of act 3.  So you have you two in act 2 agreeing to live together, but it doesn't happen for three years.

The problem with Fenris is he has a serious issue with intimacy and runs out on Hawke, but to get back together with him, you must remain faithful.  That means that Fenris and Hawke are pining for each other for three years, without a relationship going on.  I rationalized it by thinking they got back together, but backed way off.  It still is just too long of a cooling off period. 

Hope it works here as well. 

That's definitely awkward with Anders. With Merrill, she doesn't appear in the house during Act II, but the codex from the start of Act III does imply that she moved in shortly after the climax of said act (that duel with the Arishok was a ****, but it was fun) and has been living there throughout the three-year interval. It's actually very funny - it mentions how the neighbors were scandalized by her moving in "and not as a servant", and how she wandered around the nighberhood barefoot, picking flowers, and "cooing at attack dogs". 

I think Isabela has a similar situation to Fenris, actually. The wiki says she's the only one that never actually moves in, and regardless of whether she comes back to give the qunari their relic she still dissappears afterwards and only resurfaces at the beginning of Act III - again, according to the codex. 

Do agree, though, three years is an abnormally long "cooling off period". Very strange they wouldn't at least throw something in there about them being off and on, or having gotten back together during the interval, or something. 

The way you gray out text is to do it one paragraph at a time.  But the wiki is already wrong.  *sigh* Fenris is the same.

[Brockololly]

Glorfindel709 wrote...
As I romance the other dark haired mage in a Dragon Age game, I find myself disappointed in the romances in DA2. I dunno, I guess it's just because no one can really match the morrigan romance but I just wish there were more opportunities to actually talk with the companions and learn more about them  in the romance. The companion quest conversations really arent nearly enough.

*shrugs* I miss Morrigan

I think part of the problem with the DA2 companions is in part due to the friendship/rivalry meter, they just boil down to a single ideological issue when dealing with Hawke, maybe outside of Varric or Aveline. So anytime you talk to one of them it ends up being templars/mages/chantry and so on. And because of the friendship/rivalry, you have to game it to one extreme or the other, lest you get stuck in the middle. If anything, I'd say there is too much banter in DA2 and not enough one on one conversations to have Hawke personally connect with the companions and have them actually feel like friends, rather than people trailing around Hawke for no apparent reason.

So you know where the companions stand on the big issues, but rarely get to see any personal quirks like you did in Origins via the gift system or through those banters, since the heavy lifting of the dialogue and characterization of DA2 is done via the banters.

Modifié par Brockololly, 17 mars 2011 - 08:39 .

[Glorfindel709]

Agreed with you 100% Brock, there just isnt enough one on one conversation to get to know the companions really well. And I do agree, the templar/mages/chantry thing is just so forced on us to reach that final bull**** in Act 3 that it makes the characters seem flat and two dimensional.

@KoP I think the Arishok would break her.... the Qunari are a lot more anti-mage than Sten ever was in Origins.

[TheBlackBaron]

 Sten had enough of a sense of humor to, um...humor Morrigan about the whole thing, what with the helmet and the red-hot poker and such. 
I...don't think the Arishok would be in the mood for that. 

Finally finished the game last night. I would be all raring to say that now there's no way they can't possibly be setting up KotOR III-that-never-was, with both Hawke (who I liked far, far more than I ever thought I would) and the Warden in play. But after convicing myself post-Awakening they were craftily move pieces around to cut all of the Warden's ties to Ferelden and set the next game in Orlais...yeah, I'm not going to get burned again. 

The three frames of Morrigan in the book made me lol, Brock. I get why she got one (well, two, if you count Flemeth mentioning "my daughter" in the prologue) namedrop and that was it, it'd just be gratuitous and forcing things where they shouldn't be otherwise. But Flemeth...after talking up Flemeth's role in all this, using that redesign, and having her narrate the trailer(s?), I have no idea why she had such a comparatively small role in this game. I mean, she saves you, you provide the means to make it unambiguous that she survives the Warden's attack...and then that's it. Never comes up again.
All you've got is some foreshadowing and speculation that she may have played a role in the dissappearances of Hawke and the Warden (indirectly in the case of Mirror Wardens). 

[MKDAWUSS]

Just a question - how would the Chantry and/or the Circle treat the OGB (assuming he is to make a role in the future [and here's to hoping there aren't any bugs regarding the relationship of his parents!])? Could that be part of the necessary role Hawke had to fill in starting the war between the Circle and the Chantry? Wipe them both out so when the OGB comes of age, there shall be no resistance? I get the feeling that what the OGB stands for would tear the Chantry apart completely.

[Xilizhra]

The Chantry's reaction: KILL KILL KILL

[TheBlackBaron]

Xilizhra wrote...

The Chantry's reaction: KILL KILL KILL

^ That.

The Circle, I think, would be pretty ambivalent. The Circle might try and enlist his help, but the OGB likely has more important things to worry about.

This whole Chantry vs. Circles thing is just a backdrop for the real conflict, I think. Just call me paranoid about Flemeth. 

[MKDAWUSS]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Chantry's reaction: KILL KILL KILL

^ That.

The Circle, I think, would be pretty ambivalent. The Circle might try and enlist his help, but the OGB likely has more important things to worry about.

This whole Chantry vs. Circles thing is just a backdrop for the real conflict, I think. Just call me paranoid about Flemeth. 

I don't think it's that much of a distraction - if Morrigan is any indication, there's a strong dislike for both the Chantry AND the Circle. Wiping them both out leaves apostate mages (like Morrigan, Flemeth, and possibly the OGB) in a very advantageous position.

[TheBlackBaron]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

I don't think it's that much of a distraction - if Morrigan is any indication, there's a strong dislike for both the Chantry AND the Circle. Wiping them both out leaves apostate mages (like Morrigan, Flemeth, and possibly the OGB) in a very advantageous position.

Hence why I said I don't think the OGB would bother with either of them. I just commented that it's perhaps serving as a cover for something else going on behind the scenes. For Flemeth's (and maybe Morrigan's) purposes, it would also help by weakening both sides and making them vulnerable.

[Brockololly]

TheBlackBaron wrote...
Finally finished the game last night. I would be all raring to say that now there's no way they can't possibly be setting up KotOR III-that-never-was, with both Hawke (who I liked far, far more than I ever thought I would) and the Warden in play. But after convicing myself post-Awakening they were craftily move pieces around to cut all of the Warden's ties to Ferelden and set the next game in Orlais...yeah, I'm not going to get burned again.

Yeah...after Origins I was sure they'd set the game in Orlais or Tevinter but instead they go to...Kirkwall? Yeah, didn't see that coming. And the ending is totally just like KOTOR2 ended up IMO, just substitute Revan/Exile with Warden/Hawke potentially. Question is now, does BioWare do anything of note with this or just ****** away another goldne opportunity in some effort not alienate people that haven't even bothered playing the games thus far?

TheBlackBaron wrote...
The three frames of Morrigan in the book made me lol, Brock. I get why she got one (well, two, if you count Flemeth mentioning "my daughter" in the prologue) namedrop and that was it, it'd just be gratuitous and forcing things where they shouldn't be otherwise.

Yeah, most of the cameos felt forced and pointless really, especially considering its not the Warden reuniting with the Origins people, so you just have to stand there like a dork and ask "Durrr who are you?" Really, it was up there with the KOTOR 2 Exile meeting Bastila and Carth cameo at times.

TheBlackBaron wrote...
But Flemeth...after talking up Flemeth's role in all this, using that redesign, and having her narrate the trailer(s?), I have no idea why she had such a comparatively small role in this game. I mean, she saves you, you provide the means to make it unambiguous that she survives the Warden's attack...and then that's it. Never comes up again.
All you've got is some foreshadowing and speculation that she may have played a role in the dissappearances of Hawke and the Warden (indirectly in the case of Mirror Wardens). 

Pretty much- I don't get it- she seemingly got a wholesale redesign for all of 5 minutes screentime total? I mean, it reminds me of movies that blow their load showing the best scenes in the trailers so once you watch the movie you're just sort of left with the feeling of "Thats it?" Flemeth really served very little obvious purpose in DA2 beyond spewing more cryptic mumbo jumbo hogwash. So when DA3 prominently displays Morrigan all over the place when they promote it, it'll likely mean she's in it for all of  3 minutes and 45 seconds before a giant rock crushes her or she goes 180 like Anders and turns into a mustache twirling Terrorist Abomination.<_<

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Just a question - how would the Chantry  and/or the Circle treat the OGB (assuming he is to make a role in the
future [and here's to hoping there aren't any bugs regarding the  relationship of his parents!])? Could that be part of the necessary role Hawke had to fill in starting the war between the Circle and the  Chantry? Wipe them both out so when the OGB comes of age, there shall be no resistance? I get the feeling that what the OGB stands for would  tear the Chantry apart completely.

It could be. It would seem to me at least that the end of DA2 has the world and its institutions rather fractured and in disarray. You've got renewed tensions between Ferelden and Orlais, likely the Qunari doing who knows what, the Circles in ruins and who knows how many factions of mages doing whatever, the Templars breaking away from the Chantry, and the Wardens seemingly up to something, maybe even with the Awakened Disciples.

So amidst all that chaos, when everyone is looking to their own interests, what better time for Morrigan and the OGB (and the Warden, dammit) to swoop on down?

I'd think the reception people might have towards the OGB would be how he presents himself too. I still think it would be kind of neat if the OGB came back acting like some Messiah/Jesus/Andraste type figure- so with the world and Chantry in chaos, with the Maker seemingly having abandoned everyone, who shows up performing miracles and so forth? The Old God Baby- and that way, he can go along building up a loyal following converting the populace as he makes his way across Thedas, maybe gathering an army as he goes, maybe marching on say, the heart of the Chantry and Val Royeaux, with Morrigan and the Warden the proud parents.

Doubt that would happen- quite frankly, given how hamfistedly the Mages/Templars conflict in DA2 was handled combined with the impotence of teh framed narrative, my faith in BioWare's storytelling ability is a bit shaken.

But then again, you have to imagine Flemeth has a stake in all of this somehow, and I'd imagine whatever it is she is up to is bigger than worldly institutions like the Chantry- the same goes for Morrigan and the OGB likely too.

Modifié par Brockololly, 18 mars 2011 - 04:33 .

[ejoslin]

 I'm not sure all the cameos were pointless.  It's hard to say.  Alistair may have been, though not having mention of him if king would have been a bit strange seeing is there's a strong sense of Ferelden pride with the refuges.
Zevran's, I've seen people complaining that he's showing up no matter what in their games, even if they killed him.  This could be a bug, but it could be a retcon.  If you read his codex, you see that he is doing is own brand of disruption that could also have far reaching implications.
Leliana may have a future in the series.  She is either important, or she could have been replaced by anyone; it's hard to say.  But she was definitely retconned.
There is SOME canon being established; I don't think that really can be avoided, however.  As long as they leave the important points non-canon (well, important to ME at least *grin*) I won't complain about that.

**spoilers**  

So you have the chantry and the circles in ruin, you have the crows being decimated, you have the qunari in a position of strength, and you have DA3 taking place in Orlais.  Oh, and you have Morrigan with perhaps an OGB strengthening herself in mirror world and Flemeth still alive.  It has potential.  The larger story is getting interesting.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 mars 2011 - 11:21 .

[Xilizhra]

I feel that the OGB will exist in some form regardless of whether or not the DR was done. It's too important a plot point.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 18 mars 2011 - 12:09 .

[Gennojo Ryuga]

I think one of the main problems with the romances in DA2 in comparison to DA:O is this:

In DA:O the companions were often more engaging, gradually opening up to the warden as the game progressed.  While not perfect it felt more natural and you grew to be very attached to the companions as they shared their motivations, failures, hopes, and plans for the future.  So romancing Morrigan made you actually feel you were gradually picking away at her rough exterior and seeing the real her, to the point that it scared her.

In DA2 you have very little significant interaction with your companions outside of the limited dialogue in their home and when they basically say "It's my personal quest time are you coming?".  The relationship feels forced, THIS IS <insert romance option here>! HE/SHE HAS BEEN WITH YOU FOR X YEARS RELATIONSHIP IS X YEARS IN THE MAKING, YOU MUST LOVE HIM/HER.

While I agree during battles I don't want to accidently click a companion and start a round of dialogue, I feel a core part in Hawke's interaction with his/her companions is missing.

It also doesn't help that the companions this time around are more...one dimensional...with few exceptions.  Some characters are so one sided to the point of them being silly.

Modifié par Gennojo Ryuga, 18 mars 2011 - 05:10 .

[ximena]

I haven't really tried every romance in DA2, but so far... the romances doesn't have that same ugh... "effect" that really pulls you in. Closest would have been Anders in terms of "OHNOF*CKWHY" but the Morrigan romance is still more memorable than any of the romances. That's just my opinion. XD

And since I miss Morri so much... a quick sketch from me.

[Master Shiori]

Nice sketch Ximena. Thank you for sharing it.

I finished my first playthrough of DA2 and am now trying out some other characters, classes and making different choices. The game itself lived up to my expectations and I like it more than I did Origins. The companions, story, quest qualities and gameplay in general just feel better. Morrigan is still my favorite DA character, but apart from her, Leliana, Zevran and Loghain, I feel the DA2 companions are simply more interesting than most of those from DA:O. The party banter is hilarious, Isabela romance has to be second favorite romance in Dragon Age and one of the best ones in any Bioware game (Morri's hold the throne though).
The whole family dinamic was truly well presented and resulted in some truly emotional moments (stopping the "White Lillies" killer has to be one of the darkest quests I've ever seen from Bioware). The ending was also surprisingly satisfactory, especially since I didn't get gaidered (or "sheryled" as the case would be) and makes me wonder what the significance of Leliana's comment on how both Hawke and the Warden disappeared is. Does that mean we may see them again at some point?

Btw, how many references to Morrigan, OGB or Witch Hunt did you guys and gals find? The only references to Morrigan were when talking to Flemeth after she rescued you and your family and later again on Sundermont. Anders also mentons how 2 mages helped save Ferelden from the Blight and that one of them (Morrigan) was a apostate. But that's all.

[Swoo]

Master Shiori wrote...

Btw, how many references to Morrigan, OGB or Witch Hunt did you guys and gals find? The only references to Morrigan were when talking to Flemeth after she rescued you and your family and later again on Sundermont. Anders also mentons how 2 mages helped save Ferelden from the Blight and that one of them (Morrigan) was a apostate. But that's all.

I dunno, I quit from boredom and bugs before completing the game but only saw the two you named; One throwaway comment from Flemeth and one mention from Anders about an apostate helping the Hero. Maybe something was in deeper than Act III, but I don't know.