SpectreWarden91 wrote...
@ Brockololly Do you mind if I make a topic about Morrigan being in Cassandra's book on the DA2 forums ?
Go right ahead!
THE Morrigan Discussion and Research Thread *Infested with Bugs Yet Again!*
Débuté par
Brockololly
, mars 19 2010 07:14
#13376
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 10:32
Brockololly
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- Members
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Go right ahead!
Retour en haut
#13377
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 07:36
Brockololly
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- Members
- 9 037 messages
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
It's laughable tbh. With the paraphrases barely relating to the line Hawke delivers BW might as well have just copy pasted Alpha Protocol's dialogue system in its entirety because with their current implementation, the icon is several orders of magnitude more important than the text. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sad.png[/smilie][/quote]
Yeah, maybe half way into Act 2 I pretty much stopped reading the paraphrases and just went with the icons. Honestly, my 1st Hawke went with the diplomatic response most of the time, not because I necessarily wanted to but since its the safe choice where you know Hawke won't say something totally stupid or offensive.
And whats more irritating is how essentially the diplomatic response is your instant friendship button about 85% of the time and the red response is your rivalry button. I like the idea of the friendship/rivalry system, but as it exists in DA2 is just not very good.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
I followed Merrill's until the bedroom scene then broke it off since I was also romancing Isabela and didn;t want to hit bugs. But the crowning moment of the Isabela romance was this which happened in my playthrough:
-Hawke romances Isabela, reaches her final conversation in the hanged man. Isabela says she's falling for Hawke, does she have a chance? Hawke says yes, the two kiss - it's all coming along nicely and we've actually seen a bit of character development on Isabela's part.
-5 minutes later, we head off to Sundermount to meet up with an elven assassin. Isabela comes along too and building on her previous revelation of 5 minutes hence, decides she wants to bed elven assassin. Hawke, the dynamic, chatty guy he is stands there with a blank look on his face as all this was decided around him. The defining moment, without a doubt.[/quote]
Haha- same thing happened with me. I find it funny how so many people moan about the Warden being passive when arguably Hawke is just a if not even more passive as a PC. Not only in stuff like you mentioned but the lack of player skills. So now Hawke can't persuade or intimidate anyone, so what does he have to do? He has to defer to the companions.
But I think its safe to say the romances were easily BioWare's weakest in a long time. At least the female ones don't even come close to Leliana or Morrigan, IMO.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Was anything supposed to happen after the scene with Merrill / Keeper at the top of Sundermount. I think I might have missed out on some of the tail ends of the companion quests. Seemed like a scene that warranted a follow up but nothing came of it in my game. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie][/quote]
I think the only thing thats supposed to happen after Merrill's Act 3 quest is that you have one last convo with her back at her home. But the bug I had was that that last conversation was actually the first one that triggered in Act 3. But yeah, its odd how since you can't freely speak to the companions, once you do their personal quests they just totally clam up.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Checking the talk table (which is a bit haphazard tbh) I think that's the default line if any other conditions aren't met. There are a couple of things Alistair can say regarding the warden - definitely caters to females who married him, but naturally the Eluvian ending doesn't seem to be accounted for. So, either an oversight, bugged import (whereby the should skip that line for mirror world wardens) or the warden came back already, though I'm not sure how that ties in with the Awakening epilogue disappearance. Did Gaider nix that as rumour/hearsay, has it already occured by that part of DA2 (assuming whether what Cassandra refers to is the Awakening disappearance)?[/quote]
I don't think so- considering that the end of the game with the static cutscene has Cassandra saying the Warden is "gone" no matter what. But apparently DA2 doesn't read any flags from Witch Hunt, so I've got to think that Alistair reference is a continuity oversight on BioWare's part. It just doesn't make sense for the Warden to have come back in year 7 for a bit then disappear again at the end?
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Except they didn't really seem to do much with it. For Isabela at least it seemed to consist of her "disappearing" for 3 years at the end of each act and then reappearing so we could pick up exactly where we left off (with this information gleaned via the codex). I know BW talked up how they were going to use this to create a more realistic romance, but I just didn't see it, at least not for Isabela.[/quote]
If anything, combined with your limited interactions with the companions, the time jumps made the romances feel even more forced and odd. It just creates a huge disconnect from the player and PC. Like you mentioned, Isabela disappears for supposedly a couple years, yet as the player you've seen her not 5 minutes ago. The framed narrative really did not add anything to the game and if anything made the whole thing more disjointed than it needed to be. There really is no reason it couldn't have taken place over maybe 3 years and not lost anything in the process.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Flemeth's appearance served two minor purposes- saving Hawke and negating the Kill Flemeth/Let Flemeth go choice from Origins. A bit of cryptic nonsense was given out too but compared to what we were guessing from the trailers it was very disappointing.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie][/quote]
Yeah, I can't help but feel she was tossed in to try and give DA2 some feeling of continuity. As I've said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Morrigan seemingly plastered on early DA3 promo stuff only for her to have a similarly small role.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
I'm just not feeling the depth I did with Origins, I even lowered my expectations due to the 3rd person, VO approach but it just didn't click for me, it all seemed too reminiscient of the shallow interactions Shepard has with his/her crew in Mass Effect, replete with a focus on clever camera shots rather than the dialogue itself- this becomes very apparent as every conversation is now essentially a cutscene. If someone hasn't played Mass Effect before, they'll likely be impressed initially with the presentation, yet down the line the cracks will begin to show. As Brock mentioned earlier, the heart icons & wheel approach is a hands-off "press here to win" style of conversation and felt very underwhelming compared to what came before it. Paired with the Awakening style popup one-liners while out and about it made some aspects of character development seem a bit artifical, with the three year gaps with no progression in relationship/character development only adding to my disappointment.[/quote]
Its very linear and quite frankly boring, having to interact with the companions only when they give you the ok and guessing what Hawke is going to say based on the wheel. I find it funny how so many people are liking Hawke with a voice and yet in the next breath they bemoan the lack of more companion interaction and so forth. Maybe its not entirely responsible, but certainly having a voiced PC is going to eat into your budget a good deal and add in the cinematic cutscene everything mentality and it you can forget having the supposedly terrible "talking heads" conversations. I don't know about you, but generally when I'm talking with someone, I'm not having an out of body experience with annoying camera angles and shaky cam- I'm probably just looking at the person! What a novel concept! So instead of wasting time and money trying to make goofy cinema, why not make the facial animations and teh characters higher fidelity so that you can read more complex expressions and body language, so you don't need to keep people interested in a scene by changing camera angles but by making better characters?
I just really think BioWare's priorities with these things are totally off.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
God no, the Arishok was one of the better parts of DA2.[/quote]
Absolutely.
Act 2 was the highpoint of the game, it was all downhill from there.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
The only reliable way is to open the savegame itself in pyGFF and check the flags yourself manually - http://social.biowar.../index/6498551. Most LI flags seem to be messed up in DA2 though - the data is there, yet the game isn't accessing them properly. My brief look at the DA2 talk table determined that there don't appear to be any Morrigan/Warden romance specific lines in DA2 though. And as I might have mentioned before, the codex or even Bodahn in Hightown would have been ideal to acknowledge the romances, seeing as how he was right there in camp. I think he only acknowledges the US, King / Queen endings though with nothing specific past that. Would have been the perfect time to give a subtle nod to the warden's LI, imo.[/quote]
Or even if you had any discussion with any of the Wardens you ran across, they could have dropped a quick line on how the Hero of Ferelden had been rumored to have disppeared with some Apostate witch. So many opportunities to do something with that and nothing- much like Awakening.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
^This. One thing that set DA:O apart was the ability to start a proper conversation at the player's discretion, in camp or out. This has now be streamlined into the "cooler" Awakening/ME system. To me, that just highlighted a major problem of mine with Mass Effect - the inability to engage in dialogue with companions outside of scripted scenes. [/quote]
Right- and having every interaction some big cinematic cutscene just seems like a tremendous waste. I think there was one scene with Merrill which amounted to Hawke going in saying hello, sitting down at a table, the camera swirls around a bit, Merrill says he's a good friend and thats it. Was all that necessary? Did I really need that to go down as a quest in my journal? Couldn't we have just done that when I was travelling on the road with Merrill? Having every interaction a acutscene just cheapens the impact of a cutscene when they're actually called for. And it just adds another layer of disconnect between the player and the PC and the NPC.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
And regarding the rationale for followers to stick with a leader - the camp in DA:O actually served this purpose as it forced all the companions to be in one place at all times, thus you can infer relationships/rivalries developing between them, they all had a reason to follow the warden and by circumstance they were forced to deal with each other. With DA2's set up, there's little reason really why some of the companions would be arguing with each other to the extent they do because they wouldn't be forced to interact with each other to the same extent as the Origins crew did.[/quote]
Right- I mean, why would Fenris and Anders or Merrill ever go hang out? Its a reach. In Origins everyone was brought together by the Blight whereas having some of the companions stay friends with Hawke over the years doesn't even make much sense.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Haha, I love how in DA2 we've got a bunch of setup for Orlais (again! but even moreso this time) - Sandal & Bohdan are heading there, several references to the empress, Cassandra will presumably be returning at some point. We know that Gaider obviously wants/wanted to take Morri to Orlais in the future and his comments to Brock a while back were "maybe she did go there, maybe she will again" or something to that effect. There were also interesting points about something important happening with the wardens half way through the game and the reference to the warden in the final moments... So yeah, its a safe bet that the next game will have nothing to do with any of these things.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/bandit.png[/smilie][/quote]
DA3 will probably take place in Antiva or something. But they'll toss Flemeth in there just because.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
I suppose Flemeth's appearance is interesting in that it seemingly kills previous theories that Flemeth was toying with the warden when she fought him/her - supposedly she or a part of her did actually die there and so a courier was necessary to ensure she had a backup plan. Would she have been as willing to engage the warden without her contingency plan.[/quote]
True- I still wonder what exactly happened if you didn't kill Flemeth though? Or are we just supposed to think she died somehow anyway?
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Completely agree. I actually found Aveline & Varric far more interesting this time around than the LI's, they seemed to have more depth to them and that really shouldn't be happening in a competently crafted game. Myself, I just felt relegated to a backseat role during most conversations, even moreso when Hawke's lines did not correspond with what I was selecting.[/quote]
Yeah, I think its in part because Aveline and Varric seem to actually respond and react to Hawke as a friend and person. Most of the other companions seem to only deal with Hawke and lecture Hawke on ideology or they just end up talking at Hawke but not really reacting to what Hawke is saying or doing. And the romances feel terribly tacked on, unlike Origins where they would color your future interactions with that companion. I wonder if making every LI, bisexual sort of sapped away resources in that sense to make them one size fits all regardless of gender.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
I thought before I played that the DA2 romances would fall into a similar trap as Mass Effect's (player disinterest) and sadly that's turned out to be the case. There's just something missing, or rather lots of small things - a lack of attention to detail that unfortunately marrs the whole thing. The ones I've seen so far disappointed me and I'm not particularly inclined the investigate the others at this point.[/quote]
I think it just goes deeper into characterization of the companions overall, as you can't interact with them freely, you can't have any more mundane chats to discover their backstory, you can't find out little quirks in their personality via gifts, and so on. Really, I missed the gifts- I mean, you have the couple gifts to give, but again, they turn into cutscene quests and it spoonfeeds who you need to give the gift to. Whereas it was nice to discover Morrigan's affection for shiny baubles via talking to her and getting the golden mirror story. None of the characters in DA2 really had that sort of extra dimension that the Origins companions did.
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
The whole family dinamic was truly well presented and resulted in some truly emotional moments (stopping the "White Lillies" killer has to be one of the darkest quests I've ever seen from Bioware).
[/quote]
Gamlen played his part well in the early stages, the white lillies plotline and resolution was definitely one of the highlights though the game didn't evoke much of an emotional response from me.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Tbh, it looked to me like they'd run out of money/time and just decided to end it there. It was an middling ending to what was an overall good but not great game, like Origins the potential is there to do something with the ending but it remains to be seen if BioWare will actually do anything with it. [/quote]
Its like each Act got progressively shorter until you get to Act 3 and its basically 3 main quests and then bam, you're done. Not unlike Awakening's rushed ending. Certainly a far cry from Origins where you even had some denoument.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Then again, I wonder if this scene plays out any differently if you didn't kill Flemeth in Origins?
[/quote]
The DA2 import ditches all the Flemeth dead/alive & grimoire flags, so no.[/quote]
Wow? Really? Haha- I specifically remember Gaider saying multiple times how DA2 would specifically react to how you dealt with Flemeth in DAO.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
On a slightly related note, did anyone encounter this in the game regarding Flemeth (text strings from the game):
There must still be a way to bring him back. I won't give Feynriel up to the demons!
The Keeper says the only one who might be able to help my Feynriel now is the asha'bellanar.
The Witch of the Wilds is my only hope. I must find her.[/quote]
Nope, I never got any dialogue about Flemeth from that quest. I wonder if Flemeth was supposed to have a role in that quest somehow but maybe it got cut?
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
That was an interesting exchange. Sandal also had some comment about an old woman with a scary laugh watching him (Flemeth?) I did have an odd thought that Sandal was some sort of OGB from a previous Blight, but I'll leave it there...[/quote]
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Old Lady with the scary laugh is Flemeth, considering how often she laughs.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
I want to know what happened to all these possible endings the game was supposed to have...[/quote]
Hahaha- yeah, Darrah saying that DA2 had 12 endings? What a joke- its one ending where they tweak the words from "Templars" to "Mages." Really, nothing based on player choice in DA2 seems to make much difference and worth carrying forward unless another game takes place in Kirkwall or with Hawke as the PC.
It's laughable tbh. With the paraphrases barely relating to the line Hawke delivers BW might as well have just copy pasted Alpha Protocol's dialogue system in its entirety because with their current implementation, the icon is several orders of magnitude more important than the text. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sad.png[/smilie][/quote]
Yeah, maybe half way into Act 2 I pretty much stopped reading the paraphrases and just went with the icons. Honestly, my 1st Hawke went with the diplomatic response most of the time, not because I necessarily wanted to but since its the safe choice where you know Hawke won't say something totally stupid or offensive.
And whats more irritating is how essentially the diplomatic response is your instant friendship button about 85% of the time and the red response is your rivalry button. I like the idea of the friendship/rivalry system, but as it exists in DA2 is just not very good.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
I followed Merrill's until the bedroom scene then broke it off since I was also romancing Isabela and didn;t want to hit bugs. But the crowning moment of the Isabela romance was this which happened in my playthrough:
-Hawke romances Isabela, reaches her final conversation in the hanged man. Isabela says she's falling for Hawke, does she have a chance? Hawke says yes, the two kiss - it's all coming along nicely and we've actually seen a bit of character development on Isabela's part.
-5 minutes later, we head off to Sundermount to meet up with an elven assassin. Isabela comes along too and building on her previous revelation of 5 minutes hence, decides she wants to bed elven assassin. Hawke, the dynamic, chatty guy he is stands there with a blank look on his face as all this was decided around him. The defining moment, without a doubt.[/quote]
Haha- same thing happened with me. I find it funny how so many people moan about the Warden being passive when arguably Hawke is just a if not even more passive as a PC. Not only in stuff like you mentioned but the lack of player skills. So now Hawke can't persuade or intimidate anyone, so what does he have to do? He has to defer to the companions.
But I think its safe to say the romances were easily BioWare's weakest in a long time. At least the female ones don't even come close to Leliana or Morrigan, IMO.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Was anything supposed to happen after the scene with Merrill / Keeper at the top of Sundermount. I think I might have missed out on some of the tail ends of the companion quests. Seemed like a scene that warranted a follow up but nothing came of it in my game. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie][/quote]
I think the only thing thats supposed to happen after Merrill's Act 3 quest is that you have one last convo with her back at her home. But the bug I had was that that last conversation was actually the first one that triggered in Act 3. But yeah, its odd how since you can't freely speak to the companions, once you do their personal quests they just totally clam up.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Checking the talk table (which is a bit haphazard tbh) I think that's the default line if any other conditions aren't met. There are a couple of things Alistair can say regarding the warden - definitely caters to females who married him, but naturally the Eluvian ending doesn't seem to be accounted for. So, either an oversight, bugged import (whereby the should skip that line for mirror world wardens) or the warden came back already, though I'm not sure how that ties in with the Awakening epilogue disappearance. Did Gaider nix that as rumour/hearsay, has it already occured by that part of DA2 (assuming whether what Cassandra refers to is the Awakening disappearance)?[/quote]
I don't think so- considering that the end of the game with the static cutscene has Cassandra saying the Warden is "gone" no matter what. But apparently DA2 doesn't read any flags from Witch Hunt, so I've got to think that Alistair reference is a continuity oversight on BioWare's part. It just doesn't make sense for the Warden to have come back in year 7 for a bit then disappear again at the end?
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Except they didn't really seem to do much with it. For Isabela at least it seemed to consist of her "disappearing" for 3 years at the end of each act and then reappearing so we could pick up exactly where we left off (with this information gleaned via the codex). I know BW talked up how they were going to use this to create a more realistic romance, but I just didn't see it, at least not for Isabela.[/quote]
If anything, combined with your limited interactions with the companions, the time jumps made the romances feel even more forced and odd. It just creates a huge disconnect from the player and PC. Like you mentioned, Isabela disappears for supposedly a couple years, yet as the player you've seen her not 5 minutes ago. The framed narrative really did not add anything to the game and if anything made the whole thing more disjointed than it needed to be. There really is no reason it couldn't have taken place over maybe 3 years and not lost anything in the process.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Flemeth's appearance served two minor purposes- saving Hawke and negating the Kill Flemeth/Let Flemeth go choice from Origins. A bit of cryptic nonsense was given out too but compared to what we were guessing from the trailers it was very disappointing.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie][/quote]
Yeah, I can't help but feel she was tossed in to try and give DA2 some feeling of continuity. As I've said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Morrigan seemingly plastered on early DA3 promo stuff only for her to have a similarly small role.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
I'm just not feeling the depth I did with Origins, I even lowered my expectations due to the 3rd person, VO approach but it just didn't click for me, it all seemed too reminiscient of the shallow interactions Shepard has with his/her crew in Mass Effect, replete with a focus on clever camera shots rather than the dialogue itself- this becomes very apparent as every conversation is now essentially a cutscene. If someone hasn't played Mass Effect before, they'll likely be impressed initially with the presentation, yet down the line the cracks will begin to show. As Brock mentioned earlier, the heart icons & wheel approach is a hands-off "press here to win" style of conversation and felt very underwhelming compared to what came before it. Paired with the Awakening style popup one-liners while out and about it made some aspects of character development seem a bit artifical, with the three year gaps with no progression in relationship/character development only adding to my disappointment.[/quote]
Its very linear and quite frankly boring, having to interact with the companions only when they give you the ok and guessing what Hawke is going to say based on the wheel. I find it funny how so many people are liking Hawke with a voice and yet in the next breath they bemoan the lack of more companion interaction and so forth. Maybe its not entirely responsible, but certainly having a voiced PC is going to eat into your budget a good deal and add in the cinematic cutscene everything mentality and it you can forget having the supposedly terrible "talking heads" conversations. I don't know about you, but generally when I'm talking with someone, I'm not having an out of body experience with annoying camera angles and shaky cam- I'm probably just looking at the person! What a novel concept! So instead of wasting time and money trying to make goofy cinema, why not make the facial animations and teh characters higher fidelity so that you can read more complex expressions and body language, so you don't need to keep people interested in a scene by changing camera angles but by making better characters?
I just really think BioWare's priorities with these things are totally off.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
God no, the Arishok was one of the better parts of DA2.[/quote]
Absolutely.
Act 2 was the highpoint of the game, it was all downhill from there.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
The only reliable way is to open the savegame itself in pyGFF and check the flags yourself manually - http://social.biowar.../index/6498551. Most LI flags seem to be messed up in DA2 though - the data is there, yet the game isn't accessing them properly. My brief look at the DA2 talk table determined that there don't appear to be any Morrigan/Warden romance specific lines in DA2 though. And as I might have mentioned before, the codex or even Bodahn in Hightown would have been ideal to acknowledge the romances, seeing as how he was right there in camp. I think he only acknowledges the US, King / Queen endings though with nothing specific past that. Would have been the perfect time to give a subtle nod to the warden's LI, imo.[/quote]
Or even if you had any discussion with any of the Wardens you ran across, they could have dropped a quick line on how the Hero of Ferelden had been rumored to have disppeared with some Apostate witch. So many opportunities to do something with that and nothing- much like Awakening.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
^This. One thing that set DA:O apart was the ability to start a proper conversation at the player's discretion, in camp or out. This has now be streamlined into the "cooler" Awakening/ME system. To me, that just highlighted a major problem of mine with Mass Effect - the inability to engage in dialogue with companions outside of scripted scenes. [/quote]
Right- and having every interaction some big cinematic cutscene just seems like a tremendous waste. I think there was one scene with Merrill which amounted to Hawke going in saying hello, sitting down at a table, the camera swirls around a bit, Merrill says he's a good friend and thats it. Was all that necessary? Did I really need that to go down as a quest in my journal? Couldn't we have just done that when I was travelling on the road with Merrill? Having every interaction a acutscene just cheapens the impact of a cutscene when they're actually called for. And it just adds another layer of disconnect between the player and the PC and the NPC.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
And regarding the rationale for followers to stick with a leader - the camp in DA:O actually served this purpose as it forced all the companions to be in one place at all times, thus you can infer relationships/rivalries developing between them, they all had a reason to follow the warden and by circumstance they were forced to deal with each other. With DA2's set up, there's little reason really why some of the companions would be arguing with each other to the extent they do because they wouldn't be forced to interact with each other to the same extent as the Origins crew did.[/quote]
Right- I mean, why would Fenris and Anders or Merrill ever go hang out? Its a reach. In Origins everyone was brought together by the Blight whereas having some of the companions stay friends with Hawke over the years doesn't even make much sense.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Haha, I love how in DA2 we've got a bunch of setup for Orlais (again! but even moreso this time) - Sandal & Bohdan are heading there, several references to the empress, Cassandra will presumably be returning at some point. We know that Gaider obviously wants/wanted to take Morri to Orlais in the future and his comments to Brock a while back were "maybe she did go there, maybe she will again" or something to that effect. There were also interesting points about something important happening with the wardens half way through the game and the reference to the warden in the final moments... So yeah, its a safe bet that the next game will have nothing to do with any of these things.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/bandit.png[/smilie][/quote]
DA3 will probably take place in Antiva or something. But they'll toss Flemeth in there just because.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
I suppose Flemeth's appearance is interesting in that it seemingly kills previous theories that Flemeth was toying with the warden when she fought him/her - supposedly she or a part of her did actually die there and so a courier was necessary to ensure she had a backup plan. Would she have been as willing to engage the warden without her contingency plan.[/quote]
True- I still wonder what exactly happened if you didn't kill Flemeth though? Or are we just supposed to think she died somehow anyway?
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Completely agree. I actually found Aveline & Varric far more interesting this time around than the LI's, they seemed to have more depth to them and that really shouldn't be happening in a competently crafted game. Myself, I just felt relegated to a backseat role during most conversations, even moreso when Hawke's lines did not correspond with what I was selecting.[/quote]
Yeah, I think its in part because Aveline and Varric seem to actually respond and react to Hawke as a friend and person. Most of the other companions seem to only deal with Hawke and lecture Hawke on ideology or they just end up talking at Hawke but not really reacting to what Hawke is saying or doing. And the romances feel terribly tacked on, unlike Origins where they would color your future interactions with that companion. I wonder if making every LI, bisexual sort of sapped away resources in that sense to make them one size fits all regardless of gender.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
I thought before I played that the DA2 romances would fall into a similar trap as Mass Effect's (player disinterest) and sadly that's turned out to be the case. There's just something missing, or rather lots of small things - a lack of attention to detail that unfortunately marrs the whole thing. The ones I've seen so far disappointed me and I'm not particularly inclined the investigate the others at this point.[/quote]
I think it just goes deeper into characterization of the companions overall, as you can't interact with them freely, you can't have any more mundane chats to discover their backstory, you can't find out little quirks in their personality via gifts, and so on. Really, I missed the gifts- I mean, you have the couple gifts to give, but again, they turn into cutscene quests and it spoonfeeds who you need to give the gift to. Whereas it was nice to discover Morrigan's affection for shiny baubles via talking to her and getting the golden mirror story. None of the characters in DA2 really had that sort of extra dimension that the Origins companions did.
[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
The whole family dinamic was truly well presented and resulted in some truly emotional moments (stopping the "White Lillies" killer has to be one of the darkest quests I've ever seen from Bioware).
[/quote]
Gamlen played his part well in the early stages, the white lillies plotline and resolution was definitely one of the highlights though the game didn't evoke much of an emotional response from me.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
Tbh, it looked to me like they'd run out of money/time and just decided to end it there. It was an middling ending to what was an overall good but not great game, like Origins the potential is there to do something with the ending but it remains to be seen if BioWare will actually do anything with it. [/quote]
Its like each Act got progressively shorter until you get to Act 3 and its basically 3 main quests and then bam, you're done. Not unlike Awakening's rushed ending. Certainly a far cry from Origins where you even had some denoument.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
[quote]Brockololly wrote...
Then again, I wonder if this scene plays out any differently if you didn't kill Flemeth in Origins?
[/quote]
The DA2 import ditches all the Flemeth dead/alive & grimoire flags, so no.[/quote]
Wow? Really? Haha- I specifically remember Gaider saying multiple times how DA2 would specifically react to how you dealt with Flemeth in DAO.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
On a slightly related note, did anyone encounter this in the game regarding Flemeth (text strings from the game):
There must still be a way to bring him back. I won't give Feynriel up to the demons!
The Keeper says the only one who might be able to help my Feynriel now is the asha'bellanar.
The Witch of the Wilds is my only hope. I must find her.[/quote]
Nope, I never got any dialogue about Flemeth from that quest. I wonder if Flemeth was supposed to have a role in that quest somehow but maybe it got cut?
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
That was an interesting exchange. Sandal also had some comment about an old woman with a scary laugh watching him (Flemeth?) I did have an odd thought that Sandal was some sort of OGB from a previous Blight, but I'll leave it there...[/quote]
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Old Lady with the scary laugh is Flemeth, considering how often she laughs.
[quote]Terra_Ex wrote..
I want to know what happened to all these possible endings the game was supposed to have...[/quote]
Hahaha- yeah, Darrah saying that DA2 had 12 endings? What a joke- its one ending where they tweak the words from "Templars" to "Mages." Really, nothing based on player choice in DA2 seems to make much difference and worth carrying forward unless another game takes place in Kirkwall or with Hawke as the PC.
#13378
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 08:37
MKDAWUSS
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What would really be a sight to see is if there's any cut content in DA2. Which, I would assume there would be given how so much of it feels slapped together.
#13379
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 09:12
Swoo
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MKDAWUSS wrote...
What would really be a sight to see is if there's any cut content in DA2. Which, I would assume there would be given how so much of it feels slapped together.
They have already said they have 'a lot' of DLC for DA2 that takes place during the main game's storyline, ala RtO and Warden's Keep. Much like those DLC, I fully expect it to be original game content removed to make a buck. I won't be buying any, if I have to put down 35-40 more dollars to make an average game good, then I won't support that sales model.
Something I've been wondering about, that army of Morrigan's we saw in the launch trailer (while not made by Bioware has to be approved by Bioware), but I can't think of a single thing that even barely begins to mention it?
#13380
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 09:34
MKDAWUSS
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Swoo wrote...
MKDAWUSS wrote...
What would really be a sight to see is if there's any cut content in DA2. Which, I would assume there would be given how so much of it feels slapped together.
They have already said they have 'a lot' of DLC for DA2 that takes place during the main game's storyline, ala RtO and Warden's Keep. Much like those DLC, I fully expect it to be original game content removed to make a buck. I won't be buying any, if I have to put down 35-40 more dollars to make an average game good, then I won't support that sales model.
Something I've been wondering about, that army of Morrigan's we saw in the launch trailer (while not made by Bioware has to be approved by Bioware), but I can't think of a single thing that even barely begins to mention it?
That launch trailer was for a totally different game
And yeah, you're probably right regarding the DLC model. It'll probably make people replay the game again and again while nickel-and-diming them for each subsequent run. I might buy one or two, but I'm more or less just waiting on patches and mods to saturate the field before doing another DA2 run, if I do one at all.
I do hope that there's at least one post-game standalone DLC, though.
#13381
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 11:40
Glorfindel709
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Army of Morrigans in a launch trailer? What? Where? Esplain!
#13382
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 11:48
Brockololly
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Swoo wrote...
MKDAWUSS wrote...
What would really be a sight to see is if there's any cut content in DA2. Which, I would assume there would be given how so much of it feels slapped together.
They have already said they have 'a lot' of DLC for DA2 that takes place during the main game's storyline, ala RtO and Warden's Keep. Much like those DLC, I fully expect it to be original game content removed to make a buck. I won't be buying any, if I have to put down 35-40 more dollars to make an average game good, then I won't support that sales model.
Something I've been wondering about, that army of Morrigan's we saw in the launch trailer (while not made by Bioware has to be approved by Bioware), but I can't think of a single thing that even barely begins to mention it?
Yeah, like Terra pointed out with the dialogue hinting at Flemeth in the Feynriel quest line, I'd guess there is a bunch of cut stuff as they tried to rush the game out.
I 'm not going to give BioWare anymore of my $$$ until they can make a decent RPG again. That goes for ME3 too- I liked ME2, but I don't want to see the genre perpetually watered down and diluted until you have people calling CoD and Madden RPGs since they have some sense of player progression.
As for the Morrigan army, yeah, I wonder if that maybe was just BioWare telling the company that put that trailer together to have a mages vs. templars battle and thats what they came up with. Certainly though, you also had the shot of Hawke looking at what looked like his home on fire, and that was also no where in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a Lothering DLC, maybe some Qunari DLC or something Eluvian related maybe. Certainly whatever it is, its going to have to take place outside of Kirkwall and the copy/paste dungeons.
And I was looking at the official guide for DA2 today, and in the back its got a story synopsis of DAO, Awakening and DA2- basically what could be seen as the canon DA story thus far. I don't know how much weight it holds, but it is the "official" guide so they worked with BioWare on it and all (complete with a facepalm inducing foreword by Laidlaw). Anyway there is this bit at the end:
"Epilogue: The Dark Times
In closing Hawke's story, Varric reflects on his friend's legacy. We learn that the Champion has since vanished or else the dwarf has no desire to let on what he knows.
So what does the future hold? The mage/templar crisis has drawn the battle lines, setting the scene for rebelliion and persecution. Religous purges and expurgation can be expected from the Chantry, but news of Kirkwall may incite other Circles to rise up in revolt.
Perhaps more intriguing, is there a reason why Hawke is now "gone like the Warden," as revealed by Cassandra in the final scene? Do the Champion and the Hero of Ferelden have more in common than we know? And what do the mysterious Seekers of Truth have to do with this? Will some kind of inquisition be at the heart of the events of the next Dragon Age title?
Finally, is it safe to speculate that Morrigan may play a major role in future events? Flemeth's cryptic explanation for her journey to Sundermount ("A bit of security, should the inevitable occur. And if I know my Morrigan, it already has.") may refer to the Warden's battle with the Witch of the Wilds-- or perhaps, an artfully conjured facsimile -- at her furious daughter's behest. Flemeth, lest we forget, was discovered to have achieved a form of immortality by periodically appropriating the bodies of numerous "daughters" throughout her history. Then again, with Morrigan carrying a child infused with the spirit of the archdemon in one likely narrative eventuality, it coudl mean so much more..."
Typical speculation really, but you have to think there may be something to this Morrigan stuff if even the official guide is leading that way, along with the whole Warden connection.
#13383
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 11:51
Brockololly
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Glorfindel709 wrote...
Army of Morrigans in a launch trailer? What? Where? Esplain!
Back in the initial cinematic trailer, there was a bit where you had what looked like an army of mages facing off against an army of Templars. You had Flemeth in that trailer too, with the same style staff as the mage army, standing on some platform with a dragon on it seemingly in front of a mage army. It was a blink and you miss it type scene, but when you slowed it down, the mages in the army looked like the same exact models as the Sacred Ashes Morrigan model:
#13384
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 11:52
ejoslin
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Ooooh, I forgot about the army of Morrigans. I wonder what was up with that.
It makes sense, actually, that they pulled stuff out of the main game to make DLCs. Which would suck, but it would be doable (hopefully it doesn't feel as tacked on as say, well, RtO did).
I would love to see a post-game DLC, get some idea of what happened to Hawke.
I liked DA2. I liked DAO better in most respects, but there are actually some things I like better about DA2. For instance, the game pacing I thought was a bit better (no more 2-3 hours doing nothing but combat one time, and then 2-3 hours doing nothing but talking another). However, while I do like the dialog wheel and voiced Hawke (which surprised me) I like a silent protagonist better.
The romances would have worked better had there been a bit more personal interaction, a bit more buildup. It amazes me that even with clear
buttons, people are b!tching about ending up in bed with someone. Origins really got the romances right, with the slow build ups and more romance interaction. The main reason I would give up a voiced protagonist is to get the additional romance dialog.
Anyway, I'll go back to screaming about Zevran's cameo in the DA2 forums. Gah, bugs.
It makes sense, actually, that they pulled stuff out of the main game to make DLCs. Which would suck, but it would be doable (hopefully it doesn't feel as tacked on as say, well, RtO did).
I would love to see a post-game DLC, get some idea of what happened to Hawke.
I liked DA2. I liked DAO better in most respects, but there are actually some things I like better about DA2. For instance, the game pacing I thought was a bit better (no more 2-3 hours doing nothing but combat one time, and then 2-3 hours doing nothing but talking another). However, while I do like the dialog wheel and voiced Hawke (which surprised me) I like a silent protagonist better.
The romances would have worked better had there been a bit more personal interaction, a bit more buildup. It amazes me that even with clear
buttons, people are b!tching about ending up in bed with someone. Origins really got the romances right, with the slow build ups and more romance interaction. The main reason I would give up a voiced protagonist is to get the additional romance dialog. Anyway, I'll go back to screaming about Zevran's cameo in the DA2 forums. Gah, bugs.
#13385
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 11:53
Glorfindel709
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Can anyone link that trailer? I've never seen it...
#13386
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 11:57
MKDAWUSS
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Glorfindel709 wrote...
Can anyone link that trailer? I've never seen it...
Is it no longer on the main DA2 site?
#13387
Posté 21 mars 2011 - 12:00
Alex Kershaw
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Just finished DA2... Wow, I'm actually glad Morrigan didn't make an appearance - maybe we can just pretend Dragon Age 2 never happened now...
EDIT: Is it just me or was the game only 7 years and not 10? And why does Leliana not look a year older?
EDIT: Is it just me or was the game only 7 years and not 10? And why does Leliana not look a year older?
Modifié par Alex Kershaw, 21 mars 2011 - 12:10 .
#13388
Posté 21 mars 2011 - 12:08
Glorfindel709
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I'm going through all the trailers, I dont see it....
#13389
Posté 21 mars 2011 - 12:08
TheBlackBaron
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The so-called "Army of Morrigans" was, I think, simply something that somebody somewhere noticed in the handful of frames it actually appears and got totally blown out of proportion. I tend to favor the explanation that Blur (at least I think it was Blur) was told to show a mage army and reused some assets for a scene that's "blink and you'll miss it" anyway.
Gaider said as much anyway that it meant nothing in one of his video chats, and while he is a master of misdirection I believe him in this case.
Gaider said as much anyway that it meant nothing in one of his video chats, and while he is a master of misdirection I believe him in this case.
Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 21 mars 2011 - 12:09 .
#13390
Posté 21 mars 2011 - 12:31
Glorfindel709
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OOOH it's in the Destiny trailer. Got it.
#13391
Posté 21 mars 2011 - 12:36
Terra_Ex
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I'll certainly be passing on the DLC this time, I'm not sure what kind of remedial measures they're putting into ME3 to bring back some of the RPG features that were lost so I'll wait and see on that. I suppose ME2's changes never really bothered me that much as I always viewed it as a shooter with some dialogue & rpg elements, but as that mindset spreads to other franchises it does become a problem - the overall presentation of Mass Effect was the main reason that I didn't pick it up at launch as it looked to me that BioWare was still in its random floundering about period that started with NWN. But anyway, you can't force people to like rpgs anyway so who knows what they're aimng for with all the streamlining, it's reached the point where it insults the intelligence of the existing and potential playerbase and it's good to note that many reviews have criticised some of the design decisions.Brockololly wrote...
Yeah, like Terra pointed out with the dialogue hinting at Flemeth in the Feynriel quest line, I'd guess there is a bunch of cut stuff as they tried to rush the game out.
I 'm not going to give BioWare anymore of my $$$ until they can make a decent RPG again. That goes for ME3 too- I liked ME2, but I don't want to see the genre perpetually watered down and diluted until you have people calling CoD and Madden RPGs since they have some sense of player progression.
Hmmm... a Lothering DLC might clash with the something awesome approach as it'd surely be conversation-centric, plus it'd probably be short...Do we think they'll bother with the trash DLCs like feastday this time? Do BW even have the budget available to create new and varied areas for the DLCs though, considering how much asset resuse we saw in DA2 proper, I'm not sure we'll be leaving the city for any extended period of time, especially not if they want to add events into the existing framed timeline.Brockololly wrote...
As for the Morrigan army, yeah, I wonder if that maybe was just BioWare telling the company that put that trailer together to have a mages vs. templars battle and thats what they came up with. Certainly though, you also had the shot of Hawke looking at what looked like his home on fire, and that was also no where in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a Lothering DLC, maybe some Qunari DLC or something Eluvian related maybe. Certainly whatever it is, its going to have to take place outside of Kirkwall and the copy/paste dungeons.
What was said this time?Brockololly wrote...
And I was looking at the official guide for DA2 today, and in the back its got a story synopsis of DAO, Awakening and DA2- basically what could be seen as the canon DA story thus far. I don't know how much weight it holds, but it is the "official" guide so they worked with BioWare on it and all (complete with a facepalm inducing foreword by Laidlaw). Anyway there is this bit at the end:
Yeah, it was and still remains the most interesting plot for me and you know how I'd like to see it continued.Brockololly wrote...
"Epilogue: The Dark Times
In closing Hawke's story, Varric reflects on his friend's legacy. We learn that the Champion has since vanished or else the dwarf has no desire to let on what he knows.
So what does the future hold? The mage/templar crisis has drawn the battle lines, setting the scene for rebelliion and persecution. Religous purges and expurgation can be expected from the Chantry, but news of Kirkwall may incite other Circles to rise up in revolt.
Perhaps more intriguing, is there a reason why Hawke is now "gone like the Warden," as revealed by Cassandra in the final scene? Do the Champion and the Hero of Ferelden have more in common than we know? And what do the mysterious Seekers of Truth have to do with this? Will some kind of inquisition be at the heart of the events of the next Dragon Age title?
Finally, is it safe to speculate that Morrigan may play a major role in future events? Flemeth's cryptic explanation for her journey to Sundermount ("A bit of security, should the inevitable occur. And if I know my Morrigan, it already has.") may refer to the Warden's battle with the Witch of the Wilds-- or perhaps, an artfully conjured facsimile -- at her furious daughter's behest. Flemeth, lest we forget, was discovered to have achieved a form of immortality by periodically appropriating the bodies of numerous "daughters" throughout her history. Then again, with Morrigan carrying a child infused with the spirit of the archdemon in one likely narrative eventuality, it coudl mean so much more..."
Typical speculation really, but you have to think there may be something to this Morrigan stuff if even the official guide is leading that way, along with the whole Warden connection.
And sidenote: since the game ends on year 7 - is Varric narrating from that year 7 endpoint, or has the game fast-forwarded 3 years after that last battle (with maybe final DLCs/expansions bridging the gap). Or have BioWare ditched the decade approach in favour of 7 years.
Modifié par Terra_Ex, 21 mars 2011 - 12:37 .
#13392
Posté 21 mars 2011 - 02:36
Swoo
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Terra_Ex wrote...
Hmmm... a Lothering DLC might clash with the something awesome approach
as it'd surely be conversation-centric, plus it'd probably be short...Do
we think they'll bother with the trash DLCs like feastday this time? Do
BW even have the budget available to create new and varied areas for
the DLCs though, considering how much asset resuse we saw in DA2 proper,
I'm not sure we'll be leaving the city for any extended period of time,
especially not if they want to add events into the existing framed
timeline.
Expect them to come out swinging with 'new maps', 'more story, less Sparta', and a 'you simply won't want to miss this, hook!'. Bioware really takes critiscm horribly. So many of DA2 changes seem like flinches from the 'Things We Don't Like' reviews of Origins. I expect the first DA2 DLC to be just as reactive.
And sidenote: since the game ends on year 7 - is Varric narrating from that year 7 endpoint, or has the game fast-forwarded 3 years after that last battle (with maybe final DLCs/expansions bridging the gap). Or have BioWare ditched the decade approach in favour of 7 years.
Varric's story was three years after the finale I thought, seeing as I quit at year seven and it was obviously building towards the end. That was the weakest damn timescale progression I've seen in a game, even in the old SNES RPG's when they went 6mos later things actually changed, you could have jumped 'Three Days Later...' and it would have felt more in place.
For Blur to put in Morrigan army, they had to have Bioware's OK. It seems really sloppy that the reasoning is 'Saving a few bucks on something nobody will never notice', when you are talking about a fanbase that found a one frame still of Watchmen in a trailer on the first day. The Internet sees all.
#13393
Posté 21 mars 2011 - 02:47
Brockololly
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Terra_Ex wrote...
I suppose ME2's changes never really bothered me that much as I always viewed it as a shooter with some dialogue & rpg elements, but as that mindset spreads to other franchises it does become a problem - the overall presentation of Mass Effect was the main reason that I didn't pick it up at launch as it looked to me that BioWare was still in its random floundering about period that started with NWN.
I'd agree- I liked ME2. Its a great game. The issue is that it seems, at least from the outside looking in, that ME is BioWare's Sacred Cow and well, damn, since ME did it why not do that in DA or TOR? And that mentality of making DA into Mass Effect: Fantasy Edition is so incredibly stupid. They can say they're not doing it all they want- the usual remarks from devs that "Oh, DA2 isn't like ME- its not a third person cover based shooter! *chuckle chuckle*" make me want to facepalm hard.
But it would be nice if they kept their franchises unique. Have ME be your cinematic Baby's FIrst Action RPG, catered to the consoles. Not unlike DICE has Bad Company as their console version of Battlefield. And leave DA as your more in depth, player choice driven (and maybe as a result, less cinematic but having more role playing) PC focused RPG- not unlike how DICE is leading development of Battlefield 3 on the PC- and being unapologetic about it. Especially when EA is charging $60 per copy for the PC version of DA2 plus you add in the higher margins on digital copies, and even if the PC version doesn't sell as well as the 360, they're definitely making more money on it per copy sold.
Terra_Ex wrote...
But anyway, you can't force people to like rpgs anyway so who knows what they're aimng for with all the streamlining, it's reached the point where it insults the intelligence of the existing and potential playerbase and it's good to note that many reviews have criticised some of the design decisions.
I was just reading one review of the PC version that said almost that exact thing. From Worth Playing (they gave it a 60/100 for PC):
It isn't so much consolitis that consigned the sequel to the pit of disappointment for me, nor is it crying over PC-flavored milk because it doesn't try to harness what the platform is capable of doing. Instead, the wholesale changes reflect a deeper problem in assuming that your audience isn't as smart as it was to enjoy the first game. It makes the only answer that of dumbing down the sharp edges in an effort to appeal to a wider audience.
Change by itself isn't a bad thing, but there is a thin line between streamlining a game to make it more playable — e.g., the interface, improvements to inventory handling, party management or sharpening the underlying technology — and in making changes that simply insult your audience's intelligence. This is the same audience — on both consoles and PCs — that relished learning how Origin's combat system worked, pored over each skill tree in planning their characters, and replayed it over and over again. It wasn't perfect, but at the same time, it didn't scare enough people away to make it seem like a tragic mistake.
Some other good reviews/critiques that bring up good points on DA2:
Worth Playing- console review
Game Informer's PC review
Rock, Paper, Shotgun's Review of the 1st 8 hours
CHUD's critique of DA2's "Bizarre design decisions"
Richard Cobbett's look at the lack of internal consistency in DA2's world
I really like the last article -- seriously, BG2 had the Cowled Wizards enforcing the no magic laws in Athkatla. So why can you rain firey death from above anywhere, in broad daylight, in front of Templars, in Kirkwall with no consequences? Ugh.
Terra_Ex wrote...
Hmmm... a Lothering DLC might clash with the something awesome approach as it'd surely be conversation-centric, plus it'd probably be short...Do we think they'll bother with the trash DLCs like feastday this time? Do BW even have the budget available to create new and varied areas for the DLCs though, considering how much asset resuse we saw in DA2 proper, I'm not sure we'll be leaving the city for any extended period of time, especially not if they want to add events into the existing framed timeline.
I 'd guess they'll take a very ME2 DLC approach- they tend to release a smaller weapons pack or something right before they release a larger DLC. I'd guess part of the problem with DAO's DLC reusing locations was that Awakening ate up their budget. And thats likely why we won't see an expack for DA2.
But regardless of how much it may cost them, by far and away the biggest problem with DA2 are the boring, static location recycling. Even the glowing reviews mention it. And unless BioWare wants to look like they've got their fingers in their ears going "NANANANA NA NA" they'd be sure to have the first DLC someplace new. But what do I know.
Terra_Ex wrote...
What was said this time?Brockololly wrote...
And I was looking at the official guide for DA2 today, and in the back its got a story synopsis of DAO, Awakening and DA2- basically what could be seen as the canon DA story thus far. I don't know how much weight it holds, but it is the "official" guide so they worked with BioWare on it and all (complete with a facepalm inducing foreword by Laidlaw). Anyway there is this bit at the end:
Just this recycled, dismissive line that irritates me everytime I hear it:
And so, as a team that I am quite frankly honored to work alongside turned their sights to Dragon Age II, one thing stood out to us: we didn't want to make the sequel everyone expected. Jokingly, we used to pitch that sequel as "two archdemons stapled together to lead a super Blight!" Perhaps you can see why we wanted something different.
Now I'm fine with them wanting to do something different, so long as its good. The story of DA2 just isn't very good. The whole shtick of not wanting to do what people expected is stupid IMO. Some of the best sequels are when the series goes in exactly the direction you thought it should/could, but even then, exceeds your expectations. DA2 seems intent on being different for the sake of being different and thats just as bad as doing the same old, same old.
Terra_Ex wrote...
Yeah, it was and still remains the most interesting plot for me and you know how I'd like to see it continued.
And sidenote: since the game ends on year 7 - is Varric narrating from that year 7 endpoint, or has the game fast-forwarded 3 years after that last battle (with maybe final DLCs/expansions bridging the gap). Or have BioWare ditched the decade approach in favour of 7 years.
I'm pretty sure that Varric is narrating to Cassandra in what would be Year 10. So 3 years have skipped ahead since the Templars/Mages throwdown. So yeah, I could see maybe a DLC spanning that 3 year gap. Oh, I can see the marketing claims now: "All Your Hawke Questions Answered!" "All of Hawke's Secrets Revealed!"
Modifié par Brockololly, 21 mars 2011 - 02:50 .
#13394
Posté 21 mars 2011 - 02:51
MKDAWUSS
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Swoo wrote...
Expect them to come out swinging with 'new maps', 'more story, less Sparta', and a 'you simply won't want to miss this, hook!'. Bioware really takes critiscm horribly. So many of DA2 changes seem like flinches from the 'Things We Don't Like' reviews of Origins. I expect the first DA2 DLC to be just as reactive.
You're probably right, but I noticed that they (or certain individuals anyway) tend to get a wee bit arrogant and defensive when faced with criticism (could be misreading, could be wrong). That said, I'm not expecting too much from that first episodic DLC - it'll probably be about as developed as Witch Hunt, give or take.
#13395
Posté 21 mars 2011 - 04:16
Glorfindel709
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Brockololly wrote...
I'd agree- I liked ME2. Its a great game. The issue is that it seems, at least from the outside looking in, that ME is BioWare's Sacred Cow and well, damn, since ME did it why not do that in DA or TOR? And that mentality of making DA into Mass Effect: Fantasy Edition is so incredibly stupid. They can say they're not doing it all they want- the usual remarks from devs that "Oh, DA2 isn't like ME- its not a third person cover based shooter! *chuckle chuckle*" make me want to facepalm hard.
But it would be nice if they kept their franchises unique. Have ME be your cinematic Baby's FIrst Action RPG, catered to the consoles. Not unlike DICE has Bad Company as their console version of Battlefield. And leave DA as your more in depth, player choice driven (and maybe as a result, less cinematic but having more role playing) PC focused RPG- not unlike how DICE is leading development of Battlefield 3 on the PC- and being unapologetic about it.
I honestly don't think that's very fair to us console gamers who are unable to afford a solid gaming PC, or who prefer choice driven games like Dragon Age to ME. I hated ME. I loved DA:O. I loathed DA2. I'm currently back to playing DA:O
and once I can afford to upgrade my machine, I'll be playing DA:O on the computer so I can learn to use the toolset and use mods and have pretty pretty characters.
#13396
Posté 21 mars 2011 - 04:57
Brockololly
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Glorfindel709 wrote...
I honestly don't think that's very fair to us console gamers who are unable to afford a solid gaming PC, or who prefer choice driven games like Dragon Age to ME. I hated ME. I loved DA:O. I loathed DA2. I'm currently back to playing DA:O
and once I can afford to upgrade my machine, I'll be playing DA:O on the computer so I can learn to use the toolset and use mods and have pretty pretty characters.
Oh, I'm not meaning to belittle console gamers- simply saying that just I'd rather BioWare be upfront about what platform they're leading development on with their games. Like DICE saying how Battlefield 3 is being designed with PC as the lead platform, while the Bad Company games are designed from the ground up for consoles. ME has always been designed from the ground up for the 360 and then ported to PC. DAO was built from the ground up for PC and despite what BioWare said, its obvious they designed DA2 from the ground up to work within the confines of the consoles and a controller.
And I think in large part thats where alot of the backlash on DA2 came from- BioWare not knowing their audience. Thats not to say they shouldn't make DA games for the consoles, but that they should design them to take advantage of the PC and then get them working on the consoles- like what DICE is doing with Battlefield 3- they know PC gamers supported the Battlefield franchise when it started and are making sure BF3 makes the most of the hardware- so they have stuff like 64 player multiplayer, while due to the console limitations, console can only support 32 players.
But like Terra said, the issues with DA2 go beyond forcing it into the hardware/input limitations of the consoles- its excessive streamlining and sanding away of features to the point that its like BioWare thinks people are too stupid to play the game and it needs to be spoonfed to all of us drooling idiot gamers.
Modifié par Brockololly, 21 mars 2011 - 05:00 .
#13397
Posté 21 mars 2011 - 05:17
Esbatty
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To me just like ME1 plays rather differently than ME2, DAO plays different from DA2. I loved ME1, awesome story - it felt very epic but my Shepards felt very generic. ME2 is loved for different reasons, awesome characters - not as Epic as ME1 but my Shepards were more animated and had personality.
And I find it very similar with how I digested the Dragon Age games. Origins, a single epic story and a couple of awesome characters, but my Wardens felt kind of static. DA2, a handful of cool stories and most of the characters are fantastic, and my Hawkes were defintely more animated.
I've already gone back and played DAO to see how it felt like, and defintely a different game but it still holds up on its own. I'm still not a fan of the Circle Tower or the Deep Roads nor Ostagar (save for meeting Morrigan) or even the whole trap ladened portion of Fort Drakon before the Archie. A slog is a slog is a slog. But I don't play DAO for the tactical combat I'm here for the story and the characters.
Dragon Age 2 gives me a non-epic story made up of multiple different stories that are loosely interconnected with a new set of interesting characters that really grow on me. Thats why I dig DA2. Its new, it further explores parts of Thedas I hadn't seen before, and has small ties to the original game. I may not have my Wardens back but I realize I wasn't as attached to them as I thought I was. Who I am attached to were my warden's companions.
Seeing Zevran again being, well... himself, was great. I know I wasn't playing my Warden but seeing him being cunning and smarmy and flirty and dirty was alot of fun if it was just one mission. Seeing Leliana be the Chantry's Emma Peel was very cool, she took her bardic skills and is using them to help change the world, I felt proud of her. Flemeth making cracks about Morrigan just made me miss Morrigan more, while seeing Alistair as both the sarcastic King and Drunken Traitor was kind of heartbreaking 'cause he wasn't doing what he loved (Never could figure out how to keep him as a Warden).
And Morri and Alistair were the ones I dug the most from DAO. Here in Dragon Age 2, just like Alistair and Morrigan I automatically took to Varric and Aveline. I couldn't romance them with any of my Hawkes but they didn't need it for me to get wrapped up in their shenanigans. In fact I could get up in ALL MY COMPANIONS SHENANIGANS without any kind of flirting or sexy good times. This, and I think this alone, helps (at least for me) balance out the lack of an entirely cohesive narrative.
All I can say now is, I'm not afraid to see Morrigan come back. She is not my character. Whatever they do to her is their choice, I just want to see what they have planned for her. She is the entire reason I even decided to pick up Dragon Age Origins to begin with (quick story: saw a more than risque picture on a website, said "thats hot", found DA was made by the makers of the ME series, picked it with a quickness followed by Awakening a couple weeks later, then all the available DLC a month after that.)
To me Morrigan is Dragon Age, her story is the most important to me, I don't need my Warden to be attached to hip (although that'd be a sexy sexy idea) for her story to continue. And now I am rambling...
And I find it very similar with how I digested the Dragon Age games. Origins, a single epic story and a couple of awesome characters, but my Wardens felt kind of static. DA2, a handful of cool stories and most of the characters are fantastic, and my Hawkes were defintely more animated.
I've already gone back and played DAO to see how it felt like, and defintely a different game but it still holds up on its own. I'm still not a fan of the Circle Tower or the Deep Roads nor Ostagar (save for meeting Morrigan) or even the whole trap ladened portion of Fort Drakon before the Archie. A slog is a slog is a slog. But I don't play DAO for the tactical combat I'm here for the story and the characters.
Dragon Age 2 gives me a non-epic story made up of multiple different stories that are loosely interconnected with a new set of interesting characters that really grow on me. Thats why I dig DA2. Its new, it further explores parts of Thedas I hadn't seen before, and has small ties to the original game. I may not have my Wardens back but I realize I wasn't as attached to them as I thought I was. Who I am attached to were my warden's companions.
Seeing Zevran again being, well... himself, was great. I know I wasn't playing my Warden but seeing him being cunning and smarmy and flirty and dirty was alot of fun if it was just one mission. Seeing Leliana be the Chantry's Emma Peel was very cool, she took her bardic skills and is using them to help change the world, I felt proud of her. Flemeth making cracks about Morrigan just made me miss Morrigan more, while seeing Alistair as both the sarcastic King and Drunken Traitor was kind of heartbreaking 'cause he wasn't doing what he loved (Never could figure out how to keep him as a Warden).
And Morri and Alistair were the ones I dug the most from DAO. Here in Dragon Age 2, just like Alistair and Morrigan I automatically took to Varric and Aveline. I couldn't romance them with any of my Hawkes but they didn't need it for me to get wrapped up in their shenanigans. In fact I could get up in ALL MY COMPANIONS SHENANIGANS without any kind of flirting or sexy good times. This, and I think this alone, helps (at least for me) balance out the lack of an entirely cohesive narrative.
All I can say now is, I'm not afraid to see Morrigan come back. She is not my character. Whatever they do to her is their choice, I just want to see what they have planned for her. She is the entire reason I even decided to pick up Dragon Age Origins to begin with (quick story: saw a more than risque picture on a website, said "thats hot", found DA was made by the makers of the ME series, picked it with a quickness followed by Awakening a couple weeks later, then all the available DLC a month after that.)
To me Morrigan is Dragon Age, her story is the most important to me, I don't need my Warden to be attached to hip (although that'd be a sexy sexy idea) for her story to continue. And now I am rambling...
#13398
Posté 21 mars 2011 - 12:45
Alex Kershaw
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- Members
- 921 messages
Esbatty wrote...
To me just like ME1 plays rather differently than ME2, DAO plays different from DA2. I loved ME1, awesome story - it felt very epic but my Shepards felt very generic. ME2 is loved for different reasons, awesome characters - not as Epic as ME1 but my Shepards were more animated and had personality.
And I find it very similar with how I digested the Dragon Age games. Origins, a single epic story and a couple of awesome characters, but my Wardens felt kind of static. DA2, a handful of cool stories and most of the characters are fantastic, and my Hawkes were defintely more animated.
I've already gone back and played DAO to see how it felt like, and defintely a different game but it still holds up on its own. I'm still not a fan of the Circle Tower or the Deep Roads nor Ostagar (save for meeting Morrigan) or even the whole trap ladened portion of Fort Drakon before the Archie. A slog is a slog is a slog. But I don't play DAO for the tactical combat I'm here for the story and the characters.
Dragon Age 2 gives me a non-epic story made up of multiple different stories that are loosely interconnected with a new set of interesting characters that really grow on me. Thats why I dig DA2. Its new, it further explores parts of Thedas I hadn't seen before, and has small ties to the original game. I may not have my Wardens back but I realize I wasn't as attached to them as I thought I was. Who I am attached to were my warden's companions.
Seeing Zevran again being, well... himself, was great. I know I wasn't playing my Warden but seeing him being cunning and smarmy and flirty and dirty was alot of fun if it was just one mission. Seeing Leliana be the Chantry's Emma Peel was very cool, she took her bardic skills and is using them to help change the world, I felt proud of her. Flemeth making cracks about Morrigan just made me miss Morrigan more, while seeing Alistair as both the sarcastic King and Drunken Traitor was kind of heartbreaking 'cause he wasn't doing what he loved (Never could figure out how to keep him as a Warden).
And Morri and Alistair were the ones I dug the most from DAO. Here in Dragon Age 2, just like Alistair and Morrigan I automatically took to Varric and Aveline. I couldn't romance them with any of my Hawkes but they didn't need it for me to get wrapped up in their shenanigans. In fact I could get up in ALL MY COMPANIONS SHENANIGANS without any kind of flirting or sexy good times. This, and I think this alone, helps (at least for me) balance out the lack of an entirely cohesive narrative.
All I can say now is, I'm not afraid to see Morrigan come back. She is not my character. Whatever they do to her is their choice, I just want to see what they have planned for her. She is the entire reason I even decided to pick up Dragon Age Origins to begin with (quick story: saw a more than risque picture on a website, said "thats hot", found DA was made by the makers of the ME series, picked it with a quickness followed by Awakening a couple weeks later, then all the available DLC a month after that.)
To me Morrigan is Dragon Age, her story is the most important to me, I don't need my Warden to be attached to hip (although that'd be a sexy sexy idea) for her story to continue. And now I am rambling...
He was a Warden on my game. I killed Loghain and made Anora queen - sorted. Was quite a disappointing reunion with him on DA2 anyway.
Modifié par Alex Kershaw, 21 mars 2011 - 12:45 .
#13399
Posté 21 mars 2011 - 09:25
Lord_Anthonior
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- Members
- 555 messages
Alex Kershaw wrote...
He was a Warden on my game. I killed Loghain and made Anora queen - sorted. Was quite a disappointing reunion with him on DA2 anyway.
I'm close to finish the game, considering that the first weeks I had some problems with the game crashing. I liked certain cameos in DA2 and to be honest, I was very glad Morrigan didn't appeared in the game, after I saw Zevran and Leliana I thought: "daaamn, Leliana looks like chucky's wife, but nicer" It was actually better that Morrigan wasn't anywhere around in DA2 because of the face morphs (and I know this has been discussed before but I was busy playing) though my Warden would greet the Champion with a punch in the face. SPOILERS- "Hawke! I was trying to save Morrigan from Flemeth and you go and revived her!?" <_<.
At least I managed to import a game where I recruited Loghain, put Anora on the throne and had alistair executed wich it helped to avoid meeting him on DA2. I did liked Loghain's cameo in Awakening plus the coin he gave me was useful too and he was more friendly, so it wasn't personal it was just business during the Blight.
There is one thing from my game I didn't liked and wonder if it's a bug, because I DID killed the Architect and the Mother but Nathaniel goes and says the contrary regarding the architect, did anyone saw the same line?.
How did Anders knew about Morrigan? in a dialogue, he mentioned that there were 2 mages in the company of the Warden and said "And one was an apostate!" those small brief references to Morrigan made the dialogues all the more pleasant.
Now, off to continue with the game.
Modifié par Lord_Anthonior, 21 mars 2011 - 09:25 .
#13400
Posté 21 mars 2011 - 10:10
Alex Kershaw
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- Members
- 921 messages
Lord_Anthonior wrote...
Alex Kershaw wrote...
He was a Warden on my game. I killed Loghain and made Anora queen - sorted. Was quite a disappointing reunion with him on DA2 anyway.
I'm close to finish the game, considering that the first weeks I had some problems with the game crashing. I liked certain cameos in DA2 and to be honest, I was very glad Morrigan didn't appeared in the game, after I saw Zevran and Leliana I thought: "daaamn, Leliana looks like chucky's wife, but nicer" It was actually better that Morrigan wasn't anywhere around in DA2 because of the face morphs (and I know this has been discussed before but I was busy playing) though my Warden would greet the Champion with a punch in the face. SPOILERS- "Hawke! I was trying to save Morrigan from Flemeth and you go and revived her!?" <_<.
At least I managed to import a game where I recruited Loghain, put Anora on the throne and had alistair executed wich it helped to avoid meeting him on DA2. I did liked Loghain's cameo in Awakening plus the coin he gave me was useful too and he was more friendly, so it wasn't personal it was just business during the Blight.
There is one thing from my game I didn't liked and wonder if it's a bug, because I DID killed the Architect and the Mother but Nathaniel goes and says the contrary regarding the architect, did anyone saw the same line?.
How did Anders knew about Morrigan? in a dialogue, he mentioned that there were 2 mages in the company of the Warden and said "And one was an apostate!" those small brief references to Morrigan made the dialogues all the more pleasant.
Now, off to continue with the game.
In Awakenings, they travel for days between locations and so they have to talk about something - I think travelling with the Warden Commander and Hero of Ferelden means you're going to ask him about his adventures... That, and Oghren probably bragged about it all anyway. It isn't odd that Anders knows about Morrigan.
