16183 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

Master Shiori wrote...
Some people may hate it, but I think it did make for a more unique experience. The companions in DA2 really felt like misfits that hanged out with me and helped each other out. They were more concerned with their own lives then with stopping some great evil. It didn't make us look like heroes of legend, but it did make me care about them like an extended family and not just brothers in arms drawn together by some higher goal.

Speaking for myself, I felt a much stronger bond with companions in Origins than those in DA2. I did not feel that the companions in Origins were just brothers in arms. It's evident if they have high approval that they consider you as family. Very close friends at least. Yes, Origins might have had a more "leader / followers" kind of relationship, but it still felt like family to me.

With DA2, with the exception of Varric, Aveline and maybe Anders (arguably because I really like him in Awakening and because I am intrigued by Justice) I didn't feel any of that with the companions.  Maybe Bethany but I didn't get to try yet. But for the rest, I did not feel a bond. I saw a bond between  them and Hawke. But I didn't feel it. Maybe I am just playing it wrong. Or maybe it comes back to the pros and cons of voiced vs silent PC.

I think it has a lot to do with it. It felt much more personal in Origins and by personal, I mean more connected to the player, rather than the PC (who in Origins was more an avatar of the player himself or his imagination). Though not solely, I think that in general Origin companions were better written and had longer and better convos. And I felt the romances were superior in almost every aspect. I literally felt nothing when I romanced Isabela. I didn't feel it changed anything in the game. When I define my Origins playthroughs, one of the ifrst things I remember is the romances. I am not even comparing Isabela to Morrigan, which I think is unfair. Leliana's romance had much more impact than me than...well no impact at all. But that's just me.

That said, DA2 offered things that were lacking in Origins. In Origins, the Warden acted too much like the focal point that all companions converged at. You didn't get to see or feel that much connection between them. Banters were a limited way to illustrate that. In DA2, again especially with Varric, you get the feeling that they are also forming up bonds amongst them. That said, in DA2 they've known each other for years, not so in Origins. But still, I liked those cutscenes. It's something that can and should be expanded upon.   

I don't want to get dragged into comparing Origins with DA2 too much, as it ends up polarizing opinions a bit too much imo. I felt both had their pros and cons. But I sincerily did not feel in DA2 what I felt in Origins vis a vis the companions. I *always* get teary eyed and a heart ache at the farewell speeches in Denerim and post-coronation. In DA2, I felt *nothing* except a painful sense of underwhelment I haven't felt in a very long time.  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 mars 2011 - 12:32 .

[MKDAWUSS]

Brockololly wrote...

But if you're up for some vintage facepalming, Look, another Laidlaw interview! Curse those damned non combat skills- they clearly didn't add anything to Origins and just made things too confusing! I swear, Laidlaw hates Origins.

He. Just. Does. Not. Get. It.

And I'd've liked it if the interviewer would have pressed him a little bit. He asked a few decent questions which should have been followed up on.

Modifié par MKDAWUSS, 25 mars 2011 - 12:52 .

[Esbatty]

Terra_Ex wrote...
I'm thinking I got a different bug or maybe a subset of the Act 3 Merrill bug - the last scene never triggered and it definitely didn't trigger before it was meant to either. Regardless I've no great desire to play the game through again anytime soon though.

I think I got a bug 'cause I was able to complete both romances for Isabela and Merrill, but Isabela was a friendship romance and Merrill's was a gut-wrenching rival romance. I got the Rival achievement and everything. But the crazy thing was I had Isabela totally gifted and flirted out with all the important conversations answered in the postive (even let her have her 3way with me and Zev, *shudders* the first and only time he has ever touched one of  my characters in either game. Now I think I'm the one who needs a bath.) But I think I had flirted once with Merrill at the very beginning, never took her anywhere to develop a friendship (so I could spend time with Anders and Bethany as my main mages, this time) and when I with held the Dalish object from her. BOOM! Rivalry was born... even worse than Fenris. I gave her both gifts, kept kindly telling her to stop it with the mirror, then after all the Act 3 shenanigans then throws a tantrum and throws me out of her life completely. I was so surprised. Then the game started coming to a head with the mages and temps, and suddenly she bursts into the Estate and suddenly its upset sexy time. Needing to cleanse the Antivan from my sexual palate (and being a filthy scoundrel of a rogue with Orana being an unpaid Elven "intern", Tevinter has Universities dammit) I decided 2 romances were better than 1. Oddly enough, and which makes me question if it was indeed a bug or not, Isabela got good and ruffled about me letting Merrill move in. (C'mon she did what I asked and broke the damn Eluvian.) She got upset and it freaked out Merrill. But finally got the end and I got final smooches with both of them.

Rogue Hawke is Han Solo meets Samuel L. Jackson.

Terra_Ex wrote...
Hmm, that's interesting, though whether that's a product of simply importing a Dalish warden or actually the WH choice I'm not sure.

I think its just the Dalish import rather than a WH flag, since I didn't see the WH or Golems flags on any of my import summaries.

Terra_Ex wrote...
That's going to depend on the player, to me, watching a defined PC act something out in a particular tone based on a loose selection I made isn't roleplaying and it simply distances me from the player character, and I say this having played a huge number of Wrpgs + Jrpgs. ME & DA2 let me watch a story rather than be a true part of it and that is
it's key failing in my eyes. I think this problem is magnified for me because DA2 is substituting in a different system than what engaged me in DA:O in the first place.

It depends on how able/willing you are to project yourself into the role of the silent PC really, you have to be willing and able to give something of yourself to game for want of a better term. If what you're looking for is the game to spell out everything for you visually on screen, ie: a passive experience, then a more defined PC will fit the bill. Both are perfectly acceptable depending on the game in question yet the enduring classics imo require the player to make the effort to immerse themself.

And thats the thing, I have no familiarity with the "classics". Before playing Mass Effect the last rpgs I played were ROMs of the NES Final Fantasy and Final Fantasy II (JP) back in high school. Any RPG I played before ME was either MMOs (City of Heroes, etc) or Pen and Paper like DnD/Champions/White Wolf rpgs (Man I miss Hunter: The Reckoning. Hardly anyone wanted to play that with me from my old groups in High School and College. I liked being the underpowered, going crazy, have to work as a group underdogs of the White Wolf setting.)

Only recently have I started getting into RPGs (Alpha Protcol is a true gem, while Nier bores the living sh*t out of me but Laura Bailey's foul mouthed-dulcet tones always drags me back in). Fable 1-3 and Borderlands have been alot of fluffy fun. Fallout 3 and New Vegas are pure glitchy sex; while Oblivion... uhh... I bought it the same day as Fallout 3 and was more excited about it than Fallout. So I'm still just  in 6 hours into Oblivion and well... I now have a 7th DAO+Awakening+DLC playthrough.

So DA2, was several steps forward, a few steps back, and an awkward sidestep. Okay so DA2 took an electric slide on the RPG scale for me. Its got its flaws but so does every other damn RPG I've played. Even the f**kin' pen and paper ones I got gripes about. But what it boils down to for me is: Am I having fun? If the answer Yes, then money and time isn't wasted; if its No... lend it/give it away to someone who might enjoy it.
 
In the end I guess the only thing closest to the perfect RPG is job interviewing lol

Ya go to a job board, find a posting close to your experience level, fill out your stat sheet, put on your best equips, show up at the right place and time, then hopefully you give your best responses with the build you've got.

Terra_Ex wrote...
Regarding cameos, recurring characters, etc - BioWare was the one claiming "no-canon, your choices matter." If a few throwaway dialogue references qualify as sufficient continuity then I'm sure Dragon Age won't disappoint (Not saying you're that kind of gamer, Esbatty, just a general comment on the issue). I personally like strong duos, like the warden/morri pair and seeing that kind of reactivity across the games is infinitely more satisfying than, "the Warden is off shopping atm" or a similar connotation. To me, Morrigan's story was elevated because her story, romance, friendship and goals all entwine with DA:O'score plot and a larger plotline involving the GWs, Morrigan, Flemeth & the Blight. To conclude it to the exclusion of the PC that was so heavily involved in these events (who has possibly commited to travelling with her) cannot fail to disappoint. Though Avernus's letters in DA2 and Gaider's scattered comments about the net regarding the GWs in general and the playable warden in particular leads me to believe there's more to come on that thread, which just happens to be tied to Morrigan/Flemeth anew via the WH warning.

Yessssssssssssss... Dragon Age 2 tells me sh*t is going down with the Wardens. They're supposedly politically neutral so it has to be a Darkspawn threat. Even if its two archdemons stapled together, I will be most pleased to see those bastards in action again. Also I get the feeling Flemeth is behind the "awakening" of the Architect. Whether or not his plan had worked it was going to stir crap up Thedas wide, giving her oppurtunity to be "the fly in the ointment".

[Alex Kershaw]

People are saying that there are no WH flags but when I imported my character and it gave me the import summary, the bottom one said I went through the mirror with Morrigan

[Terra_Ex]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

People are saying that there are no WH flags but when I imported my character and it gave me the import summary, the bottom one said I went through the mirror with Morrigan

They are imported, as you say they're registered in the import plot summary section, however for reasons unknown to me BioWare elected not to use them at all at this time, not even to skip over the possible inconsistency regarding the Warden's whereabouts from Alistair.

Brockololly wrote...
 
Morrigan Disapproves -500

And I kind of want this Angry Morri pic to be the first post of every new page, seems fitting somehow.

[Barbarossa2010]

Esbatty wrote...

And thats the thing, I have no familiarity with the "classics". Before playing Mass Effect the last rpgs I played were ROMs of the NES Final Fantasy and Final Fantasy II (JP) back in high school. Any RPG I played before ME was either MMOs (City of Heroes, etc) or Pen and Paper like DnD/Champions/White Wolf rpgs (Man I miss Hunter: The Reckoning. Hardly anyone wanted to play that with me from my old groups in High School and College. I liked being the underpowered, going crazy, have to work as a group underdogs of the White Wolf setting.)

You sound a bit like me, but DA:O was my first RPG outside of the old Bookcase Games Allied/Axis strategy games.  Since playing DA:O, I have been feasting on heavy diet of RPGs to play catch up.  I can safely say that DA:O was my introduction to the genre.

Esbatty wrote...

Only recently have I started getting into RPGs (Alpha Protcol is a true gem, while Nier bores the living sh*t out of me but Laura Bailey's foul mouthed-dulcet tones always drags me back in). Fable 1-3 and Borderlands have been alot of fluffy fun. Fallout 3 and New Vegas are pure glitchy sex; while Oblivion... uhh... I bought it the same day as Fallout 3 and was more excited about it than Fallout. So I'm still just  in 6 hours into Oblivion and well... I now have a 7th DAO+Awakening+DLC playthrough.

Yep, consumed all of the above.  DA:O led me to each and I will never be able to express my disappointment with DA2 out of natural comparison.  Loved Alpha Protocol; absolutely loved it.  I know it wasn't necessarily received well, but yet again another jewel from Obsidian.  Mike Thorton is a great character for a set PC; and you really can influence the end in radically different ways.  In many ways it was better than ME2 mechanically.  A gem ("Mike and Shaun...**** yeah!").  I enjoyed Nier (after Terra_Ex recommended), but I still have a number of playthroughs to experience the entire game.  Enjoyed Fable 2 in all it's superficiality, but hated Fable 3 after Peter M. went the "accessibility" route (Fable 2 possessed more than enough accessibility-and further reduction, was...well bland, boring nothingness?), a deep well of error that Laidlaw has unfortunately imbibed way too deeply from. What can I say about Fallout 3, Oblivion, and FO:NV?  They are flawed gems that I am always going back to just to rinse by eyes and soul from the horrors inflicted upon me by Bioware's latest entries.   Give me the flawed gem and labor of love (which will always be rewarded financially in the gaming community) over the polished dung nugget anyday (hear that Bioware?...if recent behavior is any indicator, probably not).  I really envy you where you are in Oblivion right now; you have much to look forward to.  Make sure you do the Dark Brotherhood questline.

Esbatty wrote...

So DA2, was several steps forward, a few steps back, and an awkward sidestep. Okay so DA2 took an electric slide on the RPG scale for me. Its got its flaws but so does every other damn RPG I've played. Even the f**kin' pen and paper ones I got gripes about. But what it boils down to for me is: Am I having fun? If the answer Yes, then money and time isn't wasted; if its No... lend it/give it away to someone who might enjoy it. 
 

I can't even begin to express my disappointment with DA2, but I will get to an epic length post later to try and catch-up with the Morrigan nation (a state I find myself perpetually in with this distinguished crew).  I'm just finding the appropriate words hard to come by at present.  I do miss Morrigan and the few bones tossed regarding her were welcome.  Of course I miss Leliana, Sten (Origins Sten since I now know that's a title), Alistair, Zevran, Shale, Loghain and even Wynne (Oghren not so much after DAA).  DA2 was like a ham sandwich after I got used to feasting on tenderloin, made all the worse that I paid the same for both.

Oh well, peace to all and chat you up soon. 

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 25 mars 2011 - 03:44 .

[adneate]

If anyone wanted proof that DA2's combat blows I can prove it to you, DA2 makes use of the much beloved leveled offset system. Most well known as "The thing that everyone hated about Oblivion" where NPCs are either + or - a certain value of the player's level. Of course BioWare wouldn't learn from Bethesda's mistakes and introduce a cap system the prevents certain enemy types from leveling beyond a given threshold like they intorduced in Fallout 3. Nope, BioWare has no caps on any thing so just like in Oblivion if your build isn't perfect you'll get weaker with each level up. Though BioWare introduced a new mechanic of infinite madness when they eliminated missed attacks, since all attacks always hit they added in a damage scaling mechanic to try and retain some semblance of balance. When you factor in the hard percentile differences with the level advantage all bosses have you see that there is almost an exponential increase in the advantages the Boss has over the player. Largely negating any armour you wear while their own protection and resistances are so high that almost any attack does miniscule damage to their well of hit points. This forces all boss fights to play only one way, upgrading your equipment or tackling a tough boss later in the Act is actually pointless since they will always be significantly better than you and being a higher level will actually make the fight harder and not easier.

So that's why every boss fight is mind numbing exercise in whittling down a 10,000 HP beast and why the fights in the game never get any easier even though you're supposed to be a legendary warrior. That generic Carta Assassin is more battle hardened than you will ever be.

[Barbarossa2010]

adneate wrote...

If anyone wanted proof that DA2's combat blows I can prove it to you, DA2 makes use of the much beloved leveled offset system. Most well known as "The thing that everyone hated about Oblivion" where NPCs are either + or - a certain value of the player's level. Of course BioWare wouldn't learn from Bethesda's mistakes and introduce a cap system the prevents certain enemy types from leveling beyond a given threshold like they intorduced in Fallout 3. Nope, BioWare has no caps on any thing so just like in Oblivion if your build isn't perfect you'll get weaker with each level up. Though BioWare introduced a new mechanic of infinite madness when they eliminated missed attacks, since all attacks always hit they added in a damage scaling mechanic to try and retain some semblance of balance. When you factor in the hard percentile differences with the level advantage all bosses have you see that there is almost an exponential increase in the advantages the Boss has over the player. Largely negating any armour you wear while their own protection and resistances are so high that almost any attack does miniscule damage to their well of hit points. This forces all boss fights to play only one way, upgrading your equipment or tackling a tough boss later in the Act is actually pointless since they will always be significantly better than you and being a higher level will actually make the fight harder and not easier.

So that's why every boss fight is mind numbing exercise in whittling down a 10,000 HP beast and why the fights in the game never get any easier even though you're supposed to be a legendary warrior. That generic Carta Assassin is more battle hardened than you will ever be.

Yeah, the boss fights were just stupid imo.  An obvious example of the crude hamfisted design of accessibility and streamlining.  I've had more fun in boss fights in Army of TWO, where your opponents(s) are actually a combination of clever AI programming and buffing, seeking actively to outflank you, vice some crudely HP stacked, static pillar that you run in circles around wearing out the A button until a cool off happens and you can activate another weak talent that has minimal impact, all the while depleting your available heatlh and stamina potions.  A boss fight where you have to think, use a talent pool, manage stats, and tactically outmaneuver the opposition is far more satisfying than an idiotic war of attrition against a single enemy with 10 times your HPs that can last up to 30 minutes of game time (an hour and a half if you pause to get a drink or mow the lawn).

Boss fights were absolutely unsatisfying fail imo.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 25 mars 2011 - 04:59 .

[MKDAWUSS]

I agree. Even on casual/cinematic/easy they were tedious chores rather than anything strategic and exciting.

[Glorfindel709]

I dont remember having to use strategy in DA2 once......

[adneate]

Glorfindel709 wrote...
I dont remember having to use strategy in DA2 once......

Well there isn't any real strategy, in a game where all attacks hit 100% of the time every battle is just a Hit-Point off. The Waves are all identical, you have the enemies on the field then the peon wave once you whittle them down you have the reinforcement wave with more HP then if you're really unlucky the Elite wave with even more HP.

That's the game right there, every single encounter for the entire 30 hours.

[Giggles_Manically]

Its not like Origins needed that much thought either.

I used the exact same AOE attacks, focused my warriors on the elites, and just cleaned up as usual.
Dragon Age is not exactly the deepest tactical game really.

[adneate]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
Its not like Origins needed that much thought either.

DA2 removes even more distilling all encounters down to the the same thing in addition to lumping it into one of the worst most poorly done action RPG combat systems ever made. Combat is a chore, a silly over the top needlessly flashy chore, which is unforgiveable since you kill people for 90% of the game.

[Giggles_Manically]

In Origins all I did was hit:
BLOOD WOUND.

Then I won every fight on Nightmare within a short time.

I dont care about combat in an RPG as long as its tolerable and I get back to the story and interactions which I am there for,

[Glorfindel709]

Giggles, usually I would agree with you about how I'm in an RPG for the story and not the combat. But DA2 doesn't have a story that can wow me beyond the tail-end of Act 2, and ontop of that I'm playing on the console. I have to ice my thumb from how often I'm hitting the basic attack button >.<

[adneate]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
I dont care about combat in an RPG as long as its tolerable and I get back to the story and interactions which I am there for,

Hence the problem with DA2, it's not tolerable. Combat is downright torture in this "sequel" and the story never unfolds any different. It's a double kill of crappy design choices, overused and terrible combat mechanics in a linear as possible story with a conversation system that ensure you don't know jack about anyone in your party until Act 2.

[bl00dsh0t]

DA2 was horribly balanced on normal and casual, the hp of elites/assassins etc was just too ****ing high to compensate for the cross class combos. It actually took a few revisions of the builds of my party to figure out how to avoid the impending 30 minute hack fest on the last surviving tank from hell by turning off ALL tactics beside the chug potions ones so that the mages wouldnt waste ever skill and mana in redicolous situations and let me control their actions to burst out the fatties.

And for that matter play on hard. Normal and casual are a complete and utter waste of time due to the balance snafu, on hard you at least have to think about positioning and loosing your mage early in the 45 waves can spell certain doom. BUT the bossfights become even more tedious... meh they couldve at least tried to have some people playtest the game who didnt already know the exact builds for everything so that chain comboing wouldnt be necessary.... stamina and lyrium potion cd nerf didnt help either....

DA2 has its moment of awesomeness, but those are drowned in mediocre combat, bugs and more story related disconnects courtesy of the "flash forward to another time where almost nothing has changed" time jumps with epic levels of immersion killing.

The sad thing is though, I am on my 4th playthrough...so they gotta have done something right

It can at least be said that the game leaves the world in a state where some promising tales can be told, if they discard the timeleap idea and fix the balancing while trashing the useless sidequests in favor of a more fleshed out main story and characters Ill gladly preorder DA3 ^^

To get back to the topic this thread was kinda supposed to be about before someone plays the lock thread game: Is the ending of da2 the big change morrigan was talking about in wh or was she referring to whatever has the wardens running scared?

[MKDAWUSS]

adneate wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
I dont care about combat in an RPG as long as its tolerable and I get back to the story and interactions which I am there for,

Hence the problem with DA2, it's not tolerable. Combat is downright torture in this "sequel" and the story never unfolds any different. It's a double kill of crappy design choices, overused and terrible combat mechanics in a linear as possible story with a conversation system that ensure you don't know jack about anyone in your party until Act 2.

Yep. A couple of fights have their moments, but those are few and far between. Same goes for story.

I could be mistaken, but the HD in DAO was a better fight than the HD in DA2. I think the problem was that they were trying to go for those MMO instance type fights, and that doesn't necessarily work out as well in a SP game. Add to that the fact that the game basically forces you to play each fight a certain way, and you're left with a bit of a mess.

[MKDAWUSS]

bl00dsh0t wrote...

To get back to the topic this thread was kinda supposed to be about before someone plays the lock thread game: Is the ending of da2 the big change morrigan was talking about in wh or was she referring to whatever has the wardens running scared?

Do they even pay attention to this corner of the forums?

It could be both, but I'm thinking it was more the ending of DA2. The Chantry falling apart is quite the change. That would play more into whatever the Witches of the Wilds have in store for the OGB IMO

[Brockololly]

bl00dsh0t wrote...
To get back to the topic this thread was kinda supposed to be about before someone plays the lock thread game: Is the ending of da2 the big change morrigan was talking about in wh or was she referring to whatever has the wardens running scared?

I think so- that is, its likely a bit of everything. Chantry in trouble, mages and templars rebelling, Orlais and Ferelden maybe getting close to war, and whatever it is Flemeth is doing, combined with Sandal's cryptic message and the Wardens seemingly up to something big? Yeah, if DA3 doesn't prominently feature Morrigan or cash in on all the OGB /Change stuff, then I have no clue what they're waiting for.

I wonder if whatever was going on in the Primeval Thaig and the Lyrium Idol has anything to do with what Morrigan warns the Orlesian Warden about- namely to be on guard? It seemed the Wardens are interested in that Thaig, but that whole plot is barely explained at all, like so much else in DA2...

MKDAWUSS wrote...
Do they even pay attention to this corner of the forums?

It could be both, but I'm thinking it was more the ending of DA2. The  Chantry falling apart is quite the change. That would play more into  whatever the Witches of the Wilds have in store for the OGB IMO

Occassionally mods do check- excessive DA2 ranting is what got this shut down back after DA2 was announced.

Modifié par Brockololly, 25 mars 2011 - 08:33 .

[TheBlackBaron]

bl00dsh0t wrote...
To get back to the topic this thread was kinda supposed to be about before someone plays the lock thread game: Is the ending of da2 the big change morrigan was talking about in wh or was she referring to whatever has the wardens running scared?

Yes. 

That is, the Chantry Civil War (to slap a name on it) is almost certainly part of the change she speaks of in WH. But is it the whole shebang? Definitely not.

Whatever it is the Wardens are investigating, that's likely where the next big threat is going to come from. Likely it will have something to do with the Primeval Thaig. 

[Alex Kershaw]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Its not like Origins needed that much thought either.

I used the exact same AOE attacks, focused my warriors on the elites, and just cleaned up as usual.
Dragon Age is not exactly the deepest tactical game really.

First playthrough - had to tone down from normal to casual because Denerim/Haven was too hard (PC version)
Second playthrough - soloed harbinger on nightmare

I'd say that changing my tactics caused quite a difference.

Brockololly wrote...

I think so- that is, its likely a bit
of everything. Chantry in trouble, mages and templars rebelling, Orlais
and Ferelden maybe getting close to war, and whatever it is Flemeth is
doing, combined with Sandal's cryptic message and the Wardens seemingly
up to something big? Yeah, if DA3 doesn't prominently feature Morrigan
or cash in on all the OGB /Change stuff, then I have no clue what
they're waiting for.

What's Sandal's crpytic message? And I personally find the whole seeing the future thing from Morri/Flemeth just ridiculous... Why can't characters be cool without having unexplained powers - I'M LOOKING AT YOU TELEPORTING ROGUE HAWKE

Edit- March 11, 2011

Ahhh yes, the Morrigan romance flags (and
possibly the other Origins LIs) would seem to not import properly into
DA2. The bugs just don't stop!

How do you know there is a bug? I don't see where it would ever be referenced?

And I heard Leliana makes a certain reference in the DLC if you romanced her - will be interesting what happens for me since I romanced both her and Morri but went through the mirror with Morri - hopefully I won't get the reference as I dont want the Leliana romance on there =[

I'm not actually getting the DLC though as of yet because I refuse to support such garbage

Modifié par Alex Kershaw, 25 mars 2011 - 10:39 .

[Terra_Ex]

bl00dsh0t wrote...
To get back to the topic this thread was
kinda supposed to be about before someone plays the lock thread game: Is
the ending of da2 the big change morrigan was talking about in wh or
was she referring to whatever has the wardens running scared?

I think they're two different things, the events at the end of DA2 seemed only to be a catalyst for future events, I'm not sure it was the fundamental change Morri was talking about. Additionally Flemeth didn't seem to think it was important enough to stick around for either.

Brockololly wrote...
I think so- that is, its likely a bit of everything. Chantry in trouble, mages and templars rebelling, Orlais and Ferelden maybe getting close to war, and whatever it is Flemeth is doing, combined with Sandal's cryptic message and the Wardens seemingly up to something big? Yeah, if DA3 doesn't prominently feature Morrigan or cash in on all the OGB /Change stuff, then I have no clue what they're waiting for.

I wonder if whatever was going on in the Primeval Thaig and the Lyrium Idol has anything to do with what Morrigan warns the Orlesian Warden about- namely to be on guard? It seemed the Wardens are interested in that Thaig, but that whole plot is barely explained at all, like so much else in DA2...

Perhaps they're waiting for the audience to reach the 10 million milestone before they start answering some questions maybe?

Didn't they already waste the Lyrium idol plotline though, it was on its way to Orlais yet ended up with Meredith as I recall...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

Edit- March 11, 2011

Ahhh yes, the Morrigan romance flags (and
possibly the other Origins LIs) would seem to not import properly into
DA2. The bugs just don't stop!

How do you know there is a bug? I don't see where it would ever be referenced?

And I heard Leliana makes a certain reference in the DLC if you romanced her - will be interesting what happens for me since I romanced both her and Morri but went through the mirror with Morri - hopefully I won't get the reference as I dont want the Leliana romance on there =[

I'm not actually getting the DLC though as of yet because I refuse to support such garbage

What DLC are you talking about? Alistair/Leliana + Zevran are supposed to make comments in DA2 if they were LIs in DA:O. There was a debug script in the game files accessible by console that sparked it off, which reported various flags not being what they should be after the import process. Examination of the save file data via hexeditor/GFF viewer noted that the flags were set correctly yet DA2's method for checking them is flawed.

Read this for more info if you're interested: http://social.biowar...7/index/6651783
But iirc it boils down to the approval levels of the DA:O companions getting wiped when you import through Origins>Awakening>DLCs, which subsequently causes the DA2 checks to fail, hence while there don't appear to be any direct Morrigan/Warden references via examination of the talk table, its been proven that the existing checks that DA2 uses for the LI flags are broken, which shouldn't surprise anyone really.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 25 mars 2011 - 11:00 .

[MKDAWUSS]

Terra_Ex wrote...

bl00dsh0t wrote...
To get back to the topic this thread was
kinda supposed to be about before someone plays the lock thread game: Is
the ending of da2 the big change morrigan was talking about in wh or
was she referring to whatever has the wardens running scared?

I think they're two different things, the events at the end of DA2 seemed only to be a catalyst for future events, I'm not sure it was the fundamental change Morri was talking about. Additionally Flemeth didn't seem to think it was important enough to stick around for either.

If that one rumor about Flemeth using the OGB to breach the Black City holds up, that could be the big change - that would certainly be fundamental.

Perhaps they're waiting for the audience to reach the 10 million milestone before they start answering some questions maybe?

Didn't they already waste the Lyrium idol plotline though, it was on its way to Orlais yet ended up with Meredith as I recall...

I wonder if that was butchered because of some last second attempt to slap together what became Act III. IMO it certainly would have gotten more mileage and potential had it been used to start things in Orlais. Instead it became a cop-out device that ended up contradicting much about what was being told about DA2 in the months before its release.

[Brockololly]

Alex Kershaw wrote...
What's Sandal's crpytic message?

"One day the magic will come back. all  of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and  the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see"

Here is the youtube video of it. I'd guess the "he" may refer to the Old God Baby...maybe.

Terra_Ex wrote...
Perhaps they're waiting for the audience to reach the 10 million milestone before they start answering some questions maybe?

Now you're just giving them ideas...maybe if we "like" them on facebook one billion times they'll grace us with  adinky piece of DLC:blink:

Terra_Ex wrote...
Didn't they already waste the Lyrium idol plotline though, it was on its way to Orlais yet ended up with Meredith as I recall...

Was it? I must have totally missed the bit where anything happened to the idol after Bartrand's little fit. I honestly don't remember any bit where the idol came up outside of Bartrand and then at the end with Meredith- when did they say it was sold to Meredith? I must have fell asleep during that bit of the movie-_-

And what the hell was that thing? I mean, ok, regular lyrium fashioned into a sword gives you anime super powers? And why did it turn her into a dried up statue thing?  Ugh...the whole end game makes no sense at all. At least in Origins with something like the Urn of Sacred Ashes, crazy stuff was going on, but you were given plausible explanations as to what could be going on, with it left to the player what may have been happening. The lyrium idol thing comes out of no where with no explanation at all.

MKDAWUSS wrote...
I wonder if that was butchered because of some last second attempt to  slap together what became Act III. IMO it certainly would have gotten  more mileage and potential had it been used to start things in Orlais.  Instead it became a cop-out device that ended up contradicting much  about what was being told about DA2 in the months before its release.

I suppose, with Nathaniel and the Wardens seemingly interested in that Primeval Thaig that they could learn more about that idol or whatever it was, as it seems to interest the Wardens.

But yes, it was a total cop out to basically turn Meredith into an unthinking monster instead of a flawed human. It would be like if Loghain took out a Super Sword and turned into a Big Bad Monster at the Landsmeet or something.


And in case you haven't read that Laidlaw interview on Gamespot, there is this quote about companion armor:

"It's something that resolves one of the parts I really disliked about  Origins where I'd see people's screenshots with their badass team and  they would kind of all look the same. Near the end of the game, everyone had the same set of suits of armor. It was kind of like, "Man, that's  not Morrigan if she's not in those robes."

Massive Armor Morri has some words for you:




And this video is rather hilarious

Modifié par Brockololly, 26 mars 2011 - 02:40 .