16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Eber]

Brockololly wrote...

Yeah, so I downloaded 1.3 and started a new game, importing in my Warden.

And....*drumroll please*... The Morrigan romance import is still screwed up. Big surprise. Going into the runscript zz_vault_debug menu to check the imported world state and it says yet again that my Warden did not make love to Morrigan and did not romance Morrigan. Those were the only Morrigan related flags that showed up- nothing regarding the DR or WItch Hunt, despite those being referenced in the Plot Summary when you import.

And of course it still says Leliana had sex with Isabela which never happened to me either.

The vault always says Leliana slept with Isabela but Isabela's lines about it only fire if she actually did. The vault always says the player did not sleep with Morrigan but there is a variable in the save file that changes pending on if you did or not. In both cases it would seem the vault is confused where the game is not/needn't be. After the vault told me I was a human dwarf noble I stopped taking it seriously.

When it comes to the Morrigan romance status you can get the vault to say there was a romance by editing the romance flag and/or the approval value in the save file. I doubt any work will be put in to get the DA2 vault to better guess if there was a romance. I say guess because Origins and Awakening has some problems keeping these things straight.

Open a DA2 save with this editor.

Expand 16024 and 17603

• 1195 is Morrigan's approval variable. Create it and set it to 100. Awakening/DLC's didn't keep track of old companion's approval and the vault demands it be above ninety which is why you likely need to create it.

Expand 16024 and 17607

• 2046 is Morrigan's romance flag, set it to 1 if it isn't already. Origins sometimes erroneously set it to zero towards the end. Remember all the "why don't I get the Morrigan epilogue"-issues.
• 2047 is Morrigan's sex flag, should already be 1 if you slept with her but the vault does not read it.

Modifié par Eber, 10 juin 2011 - 06:36 .

[BlueMagitek]

I think its sad that games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect, especially Dragon Age, sideline your decisions so much.

We're offered a lot of freedom in our games and having a direct sequel with all of our decisions in tact is asking a bit much from the programmers and story writers. 

Take the DR; we see it as a rather important choice, it allows a human with the soul of an Old God to be raised by a woman who hates the Chantry and all that it stands for.   This could serve as a large plotpoint in a sequel or could potentially serve as the plot of its own game.  But it's an option; we don't have to take it.  So if it never shows up again we get annoyed that something with so much potential isn't here.  But if it does show up again the writers would need to retcon (or "reveal") that, if you didn't accept the DR, Morrigan had some kinky ritual with Alistair and followed the party around as a rat while the Warden and Log/Ali fought the Archdemon and just died from fatal wounds.  Which we would probably be rather peeved about. 

So we get stuck and if a sequel is created it's usually either a distance away from where the original took place or happens farther in the future so that the decisions have minimal impact.

[UFOash]

BlueMagitek wrote...

I think its sad that games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect, especially Dragon Age, sideline your decisions so much.

We're offered a lot of freedom in our games and having a direct sequel with all of our decisions in tact is asking a bit much from the programmers and story writers. 

Take the DR; we see it as a rather important choice, it allows a human with the soul of an Old God to be raised by a woman who hates the Chantry and all that it stands for.   This could serve as a large plotpoint in a sequel or could potentially serve as the plot of its own game.  But it's an option; we don't have to take it.  So if it never shows up again we get annoyed that something with so much potential isn't here.  But if it does show up again the writers would need to retcon (or "reveal") that, if you didn't accept the DR, Morrigan had some kinky ritual with Alistair and followed the party around as a rat while the Warden and Log/Ali fought the Archdemon and just died from fatal wounds.  Which we would probably be rather peeved about. 

So we get stuck and if a sequel is created it's usually either a distance away from where the original took place or happens farther in the future so that the decisions have minimal impact.

Then what is the point of decisions? or end-game decisions anyway?

What is the point in a decision that has little to no impact in future games but little to no impact on the game it is in, despite the fact that it is presented as an important decision?

We only expect a game where our decisions shape the way the game world is, or our own game goes, which is what Bioware always go on about and base their games around, and that is pointless if our decisions have "minimal impact" in "sequals" (Not sure if theres even enough of DAO in DA2 to call it a proper sequel ).

Perhaps if they discluded DLC decisions (although they shouldn't have been added in when Bioware can't even cover the decisions of the main game), but losing everything we had in DAO (which includes the gameplay too, apparently) makes Bioware's "Shape your own storyline" plot doctrines a bunch of crap, they may as well have just given us one game or just made it a more action-type game with less focus on a alterable storyline, they certainly shouldn't have made the sequal they made, seems like they've just killed Dragon Age, without discounting DA2 (which would ****** off all of that games fans) it seems DA3 will be buggered too, because it will either  have to disclude DAO decisions or DA2 decisions, or both.

[BlueMagitek]

The point of decisions is to let you decide how your story goes in that particular game. End game decisions let you know how your actions effected the world.

I'm not quite sure what you're asking. A decisions that has little to no impact in future or the current game is likely just for role play purposes or to define your character.

Which is difficult to do; you end up with a large amount of variables, some of which will be dependent on each other, some of which should greatly alter the game world. Which is why a sequel is usually in a different location where our decisions would have had minimal impact on the area or far into the future where things can settle down.

Unfortunately, Bioware isn't our personal DM; they don't have the ability to present a unique game to every ending they've created.

[Barbarossa2010]

^
I think Bioware will find out that their "Thedas is the main character" methodology is flawed from a consumer standpoint. Many are obviously not buying into it. One of those great in concept, but poor in execution sort of things.

If decisions are intended for a particular game, then the DA Team really needs to have a come to jesus meeting internally and redouble their efforts to close out each story nice and neat, and manage expections better than they are proving they can do. It seems many, many players are not buying into it. Seeing the impact in-game of Bhelen vice Harrowmont on the throne didn't happen, excepting a .ppt slide, which is nothing but a cheap way out for such an immersive story as Origins. As for the DR and a romanced Morrigan? Well, go back and briefly peruse the last 564 pages for the angst and inflammation it engendered in this supposed stand-alone game that was Origins.

Thinking consumer gamers are going to accept .ppt slides as in-game resolution to an immersive story is only going to end up in failure in my view. I personally think players are more attracted to characters (especially one of their own "creation"), than they ever will be to some broad storyline, lore or world, no matter how well thought-out and executed they may be. I think DA2, even on top of it's glaring flaws, is nudging that toward fact rather than opinion.  It is certainly possible to not have engaging characters in a game, but you better have something to heavily compensate for the lack therein.

You're right though, Bioware isn't our personal DM.  Conversely, we're not their personal money machine either that will continue to pay out for unwanted products, products that fail to live up to expectations, or franchises that are (perhaps) more poorly envisioned than their flaship game might have alluded to. As consumers, we'll also use every avenue afforded us by the product developer (i.e. this site) to lobby for a recontinutation of those things that drew us to their products in the first place. That may seem unfair, but if we're going to play the reality card, that's the harsh other side of the argument.

If they're going to dilute the player experience as you suggest is unavoidable, then they better do a damn sight better in neatly tying up plot threads and giving players in-game feedback other than a few words in a slide show as an ending (Origins), or giving players endings that render decisions made within the game, as pointless (DA2).

If this is the method that the DA Team sticks with, I predict the DA AAA sales figures will continue their downward trend. There are too many other games that do it better, but can compensate for lack of a deep story with better worlds, better graphics, more interesting interfaces, and mechanics that include such things as non-combat skills and engaging crafting mechanisms. Bioware's strength was plot and story, if they can't make good on that, the DA Team will lag far behind the competition, now having jettisoned those things listed above.

Just my opinion though.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 13 juin 2011 - 09:06 .

[Retrogue]

It's Morrigan art Monday! And I'm a sucker for pencil drawings.


Full size: http://retrogue.devi...t.com/#/d38rjm9
Artist: isilmerel

[KnightofPhoenix]

That drawing is beautiful.

[Retrogue]

Oh, I have been meaning to post this. I discovered a rather obscure singer/songwriter. The first song on her first album really reminded of Morrigan. I think it suits her quite well, both lyrically and musically, save for a few lines.

"Better Known Vacancy" by Jenny Dalton

Modifié par Retrogue, 14 juin 2011 - 05:34 .

[Jarlof Seoul]

Retrogue wrote...

It's Morrigan art Monday! And I'm a sucker for pencil drawings.


Full size: http://retrogue.devi...t.com/#/d38rjm9
Artist: isilmerel

stunning. best side boobs in RPGs ever...

[Retrogue]

PureMethodActor wrote...

@Retrogue- very well done! Almost exactly like the in-game version of Morrigan.

I wish I could claim credit for it!

Also, I normally scoff at Morrigan facemorphs because I think the in game version of her is beautiful as it is. There are a few thich give her some minor tweaks while still retaining that same familiar "Morrigan"-ness we all know and love. Although I tend to appreciate those I never really bothered to use one.

But I might do a run-through of the game using this morph which makes her look like the wonderful, talented voice actress responsible for Morrigan's alternatingly witty and sultry dialogue: http://www.dragonage...ile.php?id=1540

What a novel idea!

You can get her with Blue-gray eyes much like Claudia Black's:


Or with Morrigan's wolf eyes:

Modifié par Retrogue, 15 juin 2011 - 04:40 .

[Jarlof Seoul]

Retrogue wrote...

PureMethodActor wrote...

@Retrogue- very well done! Almost exactly like the in-game version of Morrigan.

I wish I could claim credit for it!

Also, I normally scoff at Morrigan facemorphs because I think the in game version of her is beautiful as it is. There are a few thich give her some minor tweaks while still retaining that same familiar "Morrigan"-ness we all know and love. Although I tend to appreciate those I never really bothered to use one.

But I might do a run-through of the game using this morph which makes her look like the wonderful, talented voice actress responsible for Morrigan's alternatingly witty and sultry dialogue: http://www.dragonage...ile.php?id=1540

What a novel idea!

You can get her with Blue-gray eyes much like Claudia Black's:


Or with Morrigan's wolf eyes:

they look distinguished but they're not Morrigan.

Interesting about Morrigan's yellow cat eyes. She did strike me accross DAO and WH as having a certain feline aspect to her personality.

[Lord_Anthonior]

Jarlof Seoul wrote...

they look distinguished but they're not Morrigan.

Interesting about Morrigan's yellow cat eyes. She did strike me accross DAO and WH as having a certain feline aspect to her personality.

Certain feline aspects to her personality?

I'd say almost her entire personality is feline, felines always look for themselves first than looking after others at first, one has to earn the respect from a feline hehehe it is said that they choose you instead of you choosing them, they are  playful -"Never, you will have to carry me", be onguard all the time -"Survival has meaning, power has meaning" and then once one earns the respect then comes the love -"Passion for equals...". 

I do agree, from the very moment she walks down the ramp and glares at the Warden. Wouldn't had been hotter if Morrigan shapeshift into a black panther instead of a wolf? 

  http://desmond.image....jpg&res=medium

  "

[Jarlof Seoul]

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Jarlof Seoul wrote...

they look distinguished but they're not Morrigan.

Interesting about Morrigan's yellow cat eyes. She did strike me accross DAO and WH as having a certain feline aspect to her personality.

Certain feline aspects to her personality?

I'd say almost her entire personality is feline, felines always look for themselves first than looking after others at first, one has to earn the respect from a feline hehehe it is said that they choose you instead of you choosing them, they are  playful -"Never, you will have to carry me", be onguard all the time -"Survival has meaning, power has meaning" and then once one earns the respect then comes the love -"Passion for equals...". 

I do agree, from the very moment she walks down the ramp and glares at the Warden. Wouldn't had been hotter if Morrigan shapeshift into a black panther instead of a wolf? 

  http://desmond.image....jpg&res=medium

  "

I agree. One need not be british in order to make understatements!

[tmp7704]

Retrogue wrote...

You can get her with Blue-gray eyes much like Claudia Black's:

Interesting; i wonder if that's where the concept art Morrigan got her eye colour from.

Incidentally,



Wynne clearly disapproves, but would people put the hood on their Morrigan?

[bleetman]

tmp7704 wrote...

Wynne clearly disapproves, but would people put the hood on their Morrigan?

If it looked like that, oh yes. Oh my yes.

If it was akin to the towel-draped-over-the-head normal Origins hoods, probably not.

[tmp7704]

bleetman wrote...

If it was akin to the towel-draped-over-the-head normal Origins hoods, probably not.

Hah, yes; from what i hear if people made Morrigan wear these it was generally out of spite.

Not sure atm whether to make the hood permanent part of the robe, or a separate piece of equipment. The former has disadvantage of not really working well with custom hairstyles and actual equipped helmets, the latter on the other hand would mean it'd tend to disappear in number of dialogues/cutscenes if i'm not mistaken.... decisions, decisions.

[bleetman]

I won't pretend to know anything about what manner of sorcery you post-modern digital shamans perform in order to make stuff like this happen, but I would've thought separating the hood and robe would cause problems with having the two appear as one cohesive garment. Maybe?

...

[tmp7704]

bleetman wrote...

I would've thought separating the hood and robe would cause problems with having the two appear as one cohesive garment. Maybe?

This isn't really a problem, typically -- for example the underwear version of the character is technically composed from 3-4 separate parts, but to the player it appears whole

[bleetman]

tmp7704 wrote...
the underwear version of the character is technically composed from 3-4 separate parts, but to the player it appears whole

See, this? This is why I class such things as sorcery. My mind, it is broken.

(Fair enough then)

[Brockololly]

tmp7704 wrote...
Incidentally,



Wynne clearly disapproves, but would people put the hood on their Morrigan?

**** yeah I would. Thats awesome.

It would be nice if for no other reason than to change things up every once in a while as an alternative to her hoodless look. Like maybe equipping it while outside in Haven or something of the sort.

Modifié par Brockololly, 18 juin 2011 - 02:09 .

[BlueMagitek]

Wynne clearly disapproves, but would people put the hood on their Morrigan?


Hello there Visas Marr, how nice to see you again. Losing the veil is an interesting touch; I thought you didn't have eyes. >_>

Now, to you Barbarossa, I've been reading this topic (as you suggested) and I'm at about page 61 so I can tell you're quite the fan.

I think Bioware will find out that their "Thedas is the main
character" methodology is flawed from a consumer standpoint. Many are
obviously not buying into it. One of those great in concept, but poor
in execution sort of things.

The problem with Thedas being the main character is, as I mentioned, that in order to make a managable game, they need to move away from the setting they'd spent so much time in for the next game in the series.  If they didn't do this they'd either have to minimize the impact of your decisions (which would make me a sad Tek), go so far in the future that your decisions were minimized (which is really just one way to do the first one), or choose a canon line, like LucasArts does.  And I hate canon endings to open games; it makes me feel like my decisions were meaningless.  

Look at Mass Effect 3; the devs had to watch for what, 1000 choices?  Some of which are bugged (looking at your Mr. Verner), and that is from two games and they did take steps to try and keep some of the results not too different (if you want to tell a certain Turian that you've dismissed a certain situation you know what I mean). Look at what we can do in Origins; we choose the King of the Dwarves (two choices, significant difference in ruling), choose the ruler of Fereldan (five or three options, varied difference in ruling), determine the fate of the Werewolves and the Dalish (three options), determine the outcome of the Circle (two options) and then there's the entire boon... It's a lot to handle, and those are just the major decisions.  Heck, there are at least two quests which result in the Chantry pulling for yet another Exalted March against the Dwarves. Can you imagine how different a game set in Fereldan say, ten years after Awakening could be?  It's crazy.  It'd be amazing and have a lot of replayability, but it's quite a lot to ask for.

And just imagine the problems that could happen with transferring the savestates, which I know we've all experienced. Multiply that times 100 or so.

What's that?  My female City Elf Warden is now the father of an Old God Dwarvern baby despite denying Morrigan the ritual?  Oh my. >_>

Seeing the impact in-game of Bhelen vice Harrowmont on the throne
didn't happen, excepting a .ppt slide, which is nothing but a cheap way
out for such an immersive story as Origins.

While it'd be nice to see everything going down, their ruling in the short term isn't really that important.  You  need dwarvern troops, we can't stick around Orzammar for a year.  Yes, it would have been cool to get some sort of cutscene or something, but text has always been a decent way of giving the ending to you.  Heck, the ending is basically like those of the Fallout games; it shows you how your actions affected the world.

I personally think players are more attracted to characters (especially
one of their own "creation"), than they ever will be to some broad
storyline, lore or world, no matter how well thought-out and executed
they may be.

I agree, the characters are more attractive than the overall plot most of the time.  I'd love for my Surana to have been able to convince Morrigan to stay with him (and he did go with her in Witch Hunt).  But I thought that, for the most part, the Epi. took care of most of your characters; you could have either hunted for Morrigan, settled down for a while with Leliana, etc. 

You're right though, Bioware isn't our personal DM. 

Then why is he wearing a Wizard's Hat? -->

But you are correct; we vote with our wallets. 

If they're going to dilute the player experience as you suggest is
unavoidable, then they better do a damn sight better in neatly tying up
plot threads and giving players in-game feedback other than a few words
in a slide show as an ending (Origins), or giving players endings that
render decisions made within the game, as pointless (DA2).

Can you suggest how?  It'd  be nice to play through another hour or so where you rebulid the Couslands or the Circle, pimpslap a bunch of nobles into accepting elves, etc.  But that's all past the climax of the story (killing the Archdemon) and might just be meant for your imagination. ^_~

Heck, I'd love to have the option to play as a completely insane, nigh Malkavian Warden, but I don't get that option.  I can think of it though.  And it is glorious.

[Retrogue]

It's not Monday yet but I just came across this and it's too awesome not to post.


Fullsize: http://retrogue.devi...t.com/#/d2m54l7
Artist: Edameme

[DancesWithScions]

Lord_Anthonior wrote...

Jarlof Seoul wrote...

they look distinguished but they're not Morrigan.

Interesting about Morrigan's yellow cat eyes. She did strike me accross DAO and WH as having a certain feline aspect to her personality.

Certain feline aspects to her personality?

I'd say almost her entire personality is feline, felines always look for themselves first than looking after others at first, one has to earn the respect from a feline hehehe it is said that they choose you instead of you choosing them, they are  playful -"Never, you will have to carry me", be onguard all the time -"Survival has meaning, power has meaning" and then once one earns the respect then comes the love -"Passion for equals...". 

I do agree, from the very moment she walks down the ramp and glares at the Warden. Wouldn't had been hotter if Morrigan shapeshift into a black panther instead of a wolf? 

  http://desmond.image....jpg&res=medium

  "

Indeed, there seems to be a certain feline aspect to her. Hmm...i think you just made Morrigan a whole lot better! (is it possible?!)

Oh Claudia, Y U B NO LI??...............