16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Barbarossa2010]

Addai67 wrote...

 I think male players got screwed. 

Amen Addai.  And I don't spend money on certain products and spend 80 hours (X4) away from things that, in the bigger picture are probably more important, for that!

[Barbarossa2010]

Addai67 wrote...

It does help me understand Alistair's end game and the various ways that he can end up.  I can't really play a PC who is a grim, duty-driven military type, so my male PC is similar to Alistair in that he'd best like to be what his father taught him to be- a noble who is actually good and useful to the people he rules, and a family man (at least with his lover by his side).  As it is, with his heart ripped out and the darkspawn taint looming over him, I figure he is picturing a pretty empty life with only his Warden duty left to him, and the only thought keeping him on his feet (besides ending the Blight) is that as far as he knows he is the only Cousland left alive.  It's no wonder that Alistair actually seems happy if he can take the final blow on behalf of his LI or former LI.

But that's another thread!

I'm told this is "Dark Fantasy" whatever that hell that really means.  Gaider actually said they were considering going "darker!"  All I can say is that EAs/BWs artistic expression must be more important than actually having a larger player base and selling more video games. 

The Wardenly duty was all my main character had in the end and Morrigan as she presented became a threat to that duty.  He didn't know anything otherwise and she said nothing to persuade him or allay his doubts.  I understand that she may have wanted to remain silent as to her wishes, but to expect a Grey Warden to accept this weird attractng the "essence" of the Archdemon thing without a meaningful explanation was so wrong and on so many levels that it just came across as totally contrived.

Morrigan turned the relationship, on a dime, into a cold, tell you nothing, business proposition.  There was no struggle, no attempt in any meaningful way to acknowledge the romance (but for one "if there were a 100 Wardens here I would still want it to be you" speech-That was actually an insult to my Warden and he wanted to say: "Oh thanks, don't strain yourself").  Just cold business.  My Warden fell back on the only thing he was sure of at that point: he was a Grey Warden (and thought about what Duncan would advise); and concluded that what she proposed was weckless at best and diabolical at worst.  It is notable that she did and said nothing to change his mind accept to attempt to use the people he cared about on the Team against him.  She uses guilt if you are romancing Leliana to make you do it or, of course, begs you to allow Loghain or Alistair to do the deed.  What a deeply moving expression of love for a romancing Warden is all I can say.  That she walks out on a romancing Warden if you turn her down (for good Grey Warden reasoning-it's all my Warden had-based upon what little he knew and she wasn't in an educating mood it seemed) was the most profound betrayal imaginable.  Wow, another deeply moving expression of love. 
 
So, my Cousland began his story being betrayed and ended it being betrayed.  So she had her mission (which trumped all) and, it appears in the end, all he had was his.  End of story.

I've said before the burden was on Morrigan, not the Warden.  It was her burden to convince, not his to accept with no explanation whatsoever.  Very contrived circumstances.  But it was what it was.  And if enough players were happy with the outcome, it won't matter in the least what I think.

Honestly I can envision no thing that warrants that sort of cold-hearted betrayal, unless, of course, her intentions were evil and she thought you may try to stop her so she needed to get away.  Now, that may not be the case in the story to come mind you, (I did two Wardens do it) but I'll bet I'll have to suspend all reason (like I did at the DR) to swallow it.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 30 avril 2010 - 02:47 .

[Barbarossa2010]

And yes, I changed my avatar to that of a real hero.  Intergalactic bad ass trumped the chump.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 30 avril 2010 - 02:51 .

[Addai]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

I'm told this is "Dark Fantasy" whatever that hell that really means.  Gaider actually said they were considering going "darker!"  All I can say is that EAs/BWs artistic expression must be more important than actually having a larger player base and selling more video games. 

Just roll a female. 

I told my husband that I reckon the original plan was so that the femPC would get dumped if Alistair was king, too, but they decided to make it possible to stay with Alistair because the female fanbase would either screech about it or Alistair would just end up not being king a lot.

[TheBlackBaron]

Addai67 wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

I'm told this is "Dark Fantasy" whatever that hell that really means.  Gaider actually said they were considering going "darker!"  All I can say is that EAs/BWs artistic expression must be more important than actually having a larger player base and selling more video games. 

Just roll a female. 

I told my husband that I reckon the original plan was so that the femPC would get dumped if Alistair was king, too, but they decided to make it possible to stay with Alistair because the female fanbase would either screech about it or Alistair would just end up not being king a lot.

You mean as an absolute thing, even for Couslands? Because that's still present in the game for the non-HNFs, and there is a fair amount of...well, not screeching, but sobbing about it.

That's why I've only rolled two girls, and the one intended for Alistair was my second Human Noble. Advance warning on these matters is nice. 

Still, I did the Dark Ritual without feeling any of what Barbarossa was talking about (I'm kind of attached to Aedan/Jayne Cousland), so I suppose I would have weathered that well enough if I got blind-sided by it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

This thread requires eye candy

[Addai]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

You mean as an absolute thing, even for Couslands? Because that's still present in the game for the non-HNFs, and there is a fair amount of...well, not screeching, but sobbing about it.

Yes, there is, but you still get to stay with him as mistress, and even with a femCousland there is the baby problem so Alistair is still inclined to break up with you unless you convince him otherwise.

Some eye candy... for KoP, and for the ladies too. 

Modifié par Addai67, 30 avril 2010 - 05:44 .

[blademaster7]

revan11exile wrote...

Say Blade what goes with the ranger
is Bard,Assassin or Duelist because i am about the start a new
character.

Assassin for a dual wielder. Bard for an archer.

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

And yes, I changed my avatar to that of a real hero.  Intergalactic bad ass trumped the chump.

---

I'm starting the landsmeet now.... I haven't decided what to do with Alistair...

[Master Shiori]

blademaster7 wrote...

I'm starting the landsmeet now.... I haven't decided what to do with Alistair...

Spare Loghain and have Alistair marry Anora.

KoP and I will aprove and you'll get a really good tank.

@Addai

Now that you've played through a Morrigan romance, what are your thoughts on it?

Modifié par Master Shiori, 30 avril 2010 - 10:37 .

[blademaster7]

Master Shiori wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

I'm starting the landsmeet now.... I haven't decided what to do with Alistair...

Spare Loghain and have Alistair marry Anora.

KoP and I will aprove and you'll get a really good tank.

Anora agreed to marry my HN. Loghain is a Grey Warden and Alistair is a drunkard.

Leliana talked to me about it. She seemed excited by the prospect of being close to the throne. You need a mod to fix her dialogue though(it's bugged in vanilla).

I was also right about Morrigan's reaction at the gates.... It doesn't matter if you broke up with her, she will still spill her guts...

[Terra_Ex]

Addai67 wrote...

I finally broke down and played my male PC through to the gates.  I had had him on ice just before the Landsmeet for a few weeks now.

All I can say is

I really don't want to finish his game.  It's so depressing.  All of my femWardens get the guy, and I think my mCousland would prefer to slay the archdemon and have it be the end.  He couldn't say no to Morrigan, of course.  I suppose I'll do his final eventually, to see the epilogue.

*sigh* Welcome to the world of the romancing male warden .  For now we must be content to unleash our unfettered wrath upon the denizens of Amaranthine, in hopes that one day a convenient plot device will put us back on the trail of a dark haired sorceress. Numerous bugs, underfunded expansions and 1hr DLCs still stand in our way though.

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

And yes, I changed my avatar to
that of a real hero.  Intergalactic bad ass trumped the chump.

Dammit Barbarossa, change it back, I'll be confusing you with all the other Shepard lookalikes now.

Addai67 wrote...

I
told my husband that I reckon the original plan was so that the femPC
would get dumped if Alistair was king, too, but they decided to make it
possible to stay with Alistair because the female fanbase would either
screech about it or Alistair would just end up not being king a lot.

lol, all things considered my playthroughs with a female warden have a decidedly more fulfilling conclusion, this is probably a major factor why many female players (going by what I've seen here on the forums) want to start fresh with DA2 - they get some measure of closure, while us Morri fans die slowly on the inside at the mention of a new PC for DA2.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 30 avril 2010 - 12:33 .

[Master Shiori]

blademaster7 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

I'm starting the landsmeet now.... I haven't decided what to do with Alistair...

Spare Loghain and have Alistair marry Anora.

KoP and I will aprove and you'll get a really good tank.

Anora agreed to marry my HN. Loghain is a Grey Warden and Alistair is a drunkard.

Leliana talked to me about it. She seemed excited by the prospect of being close to the throne. You need a mod to fix her dialogue though(it's bugged in vanilla).

I was also right about Morrigan's reaction at the gates.... It doesn't matter if you broke up with her, she will still spill her guts...

Which mod are you using to fix Leliana's dialogue?

I've got Morrigan dialogue fix by Terra and Ejoslin's Zevran romance fix.

[blademaster7]

Ejoslin's. Do you have the latest version with the Leliana files? Her "love declaration" is also different. She doesn't bring up the Maker if she's hardened.

[Master Shiori]

blademaster7 wrote...

Ejoslin's. Do you have the latest version with the Leliana files? Her "love declaration" is also different. She doesn't bring up the Maker if she's hardened.

I think I have the latest version. Will check on DAnexus.

Good to hear that she stops metioning the Maker when hardened. In vanilla, no matter how many times I tell her to keep the Maker out of our romantic discussions, she always brings him up for some reason.

I swear it's easier to get Morrigan to say "I love you" then to make Leliana stop talking about her deity...

As for Morrigan spilling her guts at Denerim's Gates, the girl is definitely in love and doesn't quite get over you even if you break up.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 30 avril 2010 - 01:41 .

[Laxzal]

So I came across this thread and learnt of the Morrigan romance ending mention in Awakening. I love Morrigan and I really wanted a mention of me looking for her again, so I redid the last scene of DAO from Denerim all the way to Archdemon. I kept her at love, didn't talk to her to make my approval goto friendship. The game ended with me and Morrigan still in 'love'

Now comes Awakening, alright game, I plowed through it to get the Morrigan mentioning. As soon as I killed The Mother I was cheering in my head BUT to my dismay, the epilogue says I went running around with Leliana... What the hell. I think it must have been a bug or something because I didn't get in a love relationship with Leliana. I was shattered. Just thought you guys would want to know.

[Addai]

Master Shiori wrote...

@Addai

Now that you've played through a Morrigan romance, what are your thoughts on it?

I will probably play Aedan's final battle this weekend and let you know then.  I'd like to see the epilogue.

Let me ask then, since I've heard conflicting things and am not sure what Terra_Ex might have fixed:  If I want the romance-ending epilogue, I should not talk to Morrigan after the goodbye at the gates, correct?

[Master Shiori]

Addai67 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

@Addai

Now that you've played through a Morrigan romance, what are your thoughts on it?

I will probably play Aedan's final battle this weekend and let you know then.  I'd like to see the epilogue.

Let me ask then, since I've heard conflicting things and am not sure what Terra_Ex might have fixed:  If I want the romance-ending epilogue, I should not talk to Morrigan after the goodbye at the gates, correct?

That is correct.

At the gates Morrigan will say her farewell to you like all the other companions. Once this is done her aproval will show as "love".
If you talk to her after that she will break the romance and end up as friendly, which causes Awakening to threat it as if you and Morrigan never had a romance.

If you have Terra's Morrigan dialogue fix installed you will get all the proper epilogue slides without having to talk to Morrigan after the gates speech.

[Master Shiori]

Laxzal wrote...

So I came across this thread and learnt of the Morrigan romance ending mention in Awakening. I love Morrigan and I really wanted a mention of me looking for her again, so I redid the last scene of DAO from Denerim all the way to Archdemon. I kept her at love, didn't talk to her to make my approval goto friendship. The game ended with me and Morrigan still in 'love'

Now comes Awakening, alright game, I plowed through it to get the Morrigan mentioning. As soon as I killed The Mother I was cheering in my head BUT to my dismay, the epilogue says I went running around with Leliana... What the hell. I think it must have been a bug or something because I didn't get in a love relationship with Leliana. I was shattered. Just thought you guys would want to know.

Definitely a bug, unless you used the "does the hero get his girl" line with Leliana when talking to her after the coronation.

[Terra_Ex]

Master Shiori wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

@Addai

Now that you've played through a Morrigan romance, what are your thoughts on it?

I will probably play Aedan's final battle this weekend and let you know then.  I'd like to see the epilogue.

Let me ask then, since I've heard conflicting things and am not sure what Terra_Ex might have fixed:  If I want the romance-ending epilogue, I should not talk to Morrigan after the goodbye at the gates, correct?

That is correct.

At the gates Morrigan will say her farewell to you like all the other companions. Once this is done her aproval will show as "love".
If you talk to her after that she will break the romance and end up as friendly, which causes Awakening to threat it as if you and Morrigan never had a romance.

If you have Terra's Morrigan dialogue fix installed you will get all the proper epilogue slides without having to talk to Morrigan after the gates speech.

Yes, that's correct. You should get her epilogue in Origins & Awakening regardless of whether you speak to her or not. Be sure you're using the latest version of my mod (v108) though before you have that optional conversation at the end of Origins. So, to put it simply - it doesn't matter, so long as the romance is active once you hit the Denerim siege, you're pretty much set to attain her slides in both games.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 30 avril 2010 - 03:48 .

[Addai]

Terra_Ex wrote...
Yes, that's correct. You should get her epilogue in Origins & Awakening regardless of whether you speak to her or not. Be sure you're using the latest version of my mod (v108) though before you have that optional conversation at the end of Origins. So, to put it simply - it doesn't matter, so long as the romance is active once you hit the Denerim siege, you're pretty much set to attain her slides in both games.

Ok, I'll try it.  I did play a bit at the gates, but want to go back and see it again.

 at the question my PC asks her in that last dialogue, "Is that all it was to you- an entanglement?"

I realized I sort of answered the earlier question in some postings on the Alistair thread, pardon me while I quote myself and it's sort of thoughts in process:

"Like I said upthread, I can understand this better now that my mCousland is at the point of losing Morrigan in what feels like a pretty wrenching betrayal.  He still has more than exiled Alistair has, by far, but since I can't play a PC who's a cold, duty-bound military type, I imagine him crushed at the idea that if he manages to survive the Blight, his duty will be all that's left to him...
 
I realize that a similarly crushed end happens to Zevran or Leliana if they lose the Warden LI, but for my mCousland and I think for Alistair, the taint makes it more acute to think that only duty is left to them.  My mCousland is similar to Alistair in that while he wants to do some good with his life- be the sort of noble his father taught him to be- it's not enough without someone to do it all for.  After losing Morrigan, he's not going to recover because he would not invite another woman into an existence overshadowed by the taint.  With the Wardens in Ferelden decimated, there is not even the comraderie of a normal military order, and the idea of rebuilding the Wardens means calling other people into a shortened life marked by the taint.  Not exactly a hope-filled prospect."

[KnightofPhoenix]

A fascinating character Addai. Equally fascinating is how different players can make their characters, reacting to the same events.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

A fascinating character Addai. Equally fascinating is how different players can make their characters, reacting to the same events.

Is it that different than what others have roleplayed?  *interested*

[Master Shiori]

Addai67 wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...
Yes, that's correct. You should get her epilogue in Origins & Awakening regardless of whether you speak to her or not. Be sure you're using the latest version of my mod (v108) though before you have that optional conversation at the end of Origins. So, to put it simply - it doesn't matter, so long as the romance is active once you hit the Denerim siege, you're pretty much set to attain her slides in both games.

Ok, I'll try it.  I did play a bit at the gates, but want to go back and see it again.

 at the question my PC asks her in that last dialogue, "Is that all it was to you- an entanglement?"

I realized I sort of answered the earlier question in some postings on the Alistair thread, pardon me while I quote myself and it's sort of thoughts in process:

"Like I said upthread, I can understand this better now that my mCousland is at the point of losing Morrigan in what feels like a pretty wrenching betrayal.  He still has more than exiled Alistair has, by far, but since I can't play a PC who's a cold, duty-bound military type, I imagine him crushed at the idea that if he manages to survive the Blight, his duty will be all that's left to him...
 
I realize that a similarly crushed end happens to Zevran or Leliana if they lose the Warden LI, but for my mCousland and I think for Alistair, the taint makes it more acute to think that only duty is left to them.  My mCousland is similar to Alistair in that while he wants to do some good with his life- be the sort of noble his father taught him to be- it's not enough without someone to do it all for.  After losing Morrigan, he's not going to recover because he would not invite another woman into an existence overshadowed by the taint.  With the Wardens in Ferelden decimated, there is not even the comraderie of a normal military order, and the idea of rebuilding the Wardens means calling other people into a shortened life marked by the taint.  Not exactly a hope-filled prospect."

Not quite sure I'd call Morrigan's actions a betrayal, especially since she saves your life with the ritual.

The way I see it your Warden and Morrigan are pretty much in a same boat by this point.
Despite how much you love one another you also have a duty that cannot be forsworn.

You Warden has to end the Blight no matter what and Morrigan needs the god child. This is obviously something she cannot/will not forsake no matter how much it pains her to leave you.

During her farewell speech, if you pick the "I was hoping you would change your mind" you can see just how much it pains her to leave and also that she truly wishes it wouldn't have to end this way.

Whatever her reason she probably feels that staying with the Warden would put her lover in danger.

[blademaster7]

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

A fascinating character Addai. Equally fascinating is how different players can make their characters, reacting to the same events.

Is it that different than what others have roleplayed?  *interested*

Not by much.

Have fun burning the city and then walking away with a shrug. And kill the Architect without having to hear what he has to say. Why? Because he touched your ring.

That's what I did.

[Master Shiori]

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

A fascinating character Addai. Equally fascinating is how different players can make their characters, reacting to the same events.

Is it that different than what others have roleplayed?  *interested*

My Cousland was basicaly the same, except he wasn't happy at being forced to come to Amaranthine and rebuild the Wardens and thus abandon his search for Morrigan.

He did accept it as his duty but didn't stick around after it was done.