16183 réponses à ce sujet

[thenemesis1]

I really loved the story arc that I thought the Warden and Morrigan were going to have. Alot of it was left so up in the air.
Now David says that Hawke and the Warden will cross paths......ok. The way he made it sound was as if it might not be a good meeting. I almost know for a fact that it will be in DA2 EXP or DLC. I would think more along the lines of a expansion pack. Also with the barn that is on fire and it showing Morrigan in red.
1,The one thing that really troubles me, we will be Hawke and not our Warden, could of at least gave us the chance.

2. They tend to change characters over years, Anders was one that was so messed up and was my Warden's friend. So I can see them making the Warden out of touch and without reason. Making Hawke the hero that has to put down a once good man"if that happens, I will never buy a bioware game again". I also see them making Morrigan Evil and Flemeth good. If you ever look at how David writes a story, he is out to make you feel pain and very little good, not saying that is bad, just the way he does things.

3. So will Morrigan and the Warden show up with each other or solo to Hawke, we all have to know it's Hawke that will meet them both and if they are togeather when Hawke meets them....not going to go to well.
4 Now Bioware controls the Warden, so you can bet they will change him to their desire. Just think about that for a moment, they said we cant play him anymore and Mike said you would not see him as a playable character anymore. I have a bad feeling they will make our Warden a Boss fight.

[thenemesis1]

Morrigan and Warden music..epic..www.youtube.com/watch

as one that can see things, I can see the Warden on a griffen and Morrigan holding onto the Warden and them flying and Morrigan seeing how much she loves this man she never wanted to...but hell thats the artist in me, so sue me.

Modifié par thenemesis1, 26 septembre 2011 - 10:15 .

[Mike3207]

I don't recall that it was said the Warden wouldn't be playable again, just that he/she wouldn't be a protagonist.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I'd rather they keep the Warden out and not screw him up.

[lordnoak]

Would be easy to do it and make it great. Something small and light of heart like Hawke walking down a street and accidentally bumping shoulders with the Warden, apologizing, then moving on. Or for the ultimate sacrifice people, a look at the tomb.

[thenemesis1]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I'd rather they keep the Warden out and not screw him up.

I would have said before DA2 that your wroing but now, I'am right there with you. I really thought we would get a end with the Warden that we CONTROL and not them but now it seems we will see it with Hawke's eyes and thats just sad. We will run across both Morrigan and our Warden and they will be like Anders so far from what we as players have done with them.

I love the Warden he is a great character, one that could have made this a great story but they took that out and I just really don't know why, when it's a about a story..it's the rockbed characters that carry one and if DA2 is a testment to how they plan on telling the story, we are lost. I had so much hope for this story but it's just been taken over by people that have no real feel for character or story and that just is sad, I use to get mad.......but now it's like they want to kill off the only ture fan base they had and at that rate they are doing a good job. I **** I get mad..because I care for these characters and the story.

[ximena]

Apparently, it's Morrigan appreciation week over at tumblr.

This link should help you guys keep track of some of the postings. Haha. There's an entry there that I think you'd all like. Like. Really, really like. Haha.

Modifié par ximena, 28 septembre 2011 - 03:41 .

[Lord_Anthonior]

ximena wrote...

Apparently, it's Morrigan appreciation week over at tumblr.

This link should help you guys keep track of some of the postings. Haha. There's an entry there that I think you'd all like. Like. Really, really like. Haha.

Hehehe...Zunta's!!!

[Brockololly]

thenemesis1 wrote...

I really loved the story arc that I thought the Warden and Morrigan were going to have. Alot of it was left so up in the air.
Now David says that Hawke and the Warden will cross paths......ok. The way he made it sound was as if it might not be a good meeting. I almost know for a fact that it will be in DA2 EXP or DLC. I would think more along the lines of a expansion pack. Also with the barn that is on fire and it showing Morrigan in red.

I don't doubt that sooner or later, before DA2 is done, BioWare will force Morrigan in there.

thenemesis1 wrote...
1,The one thing that really troubles me, we will be Hawke and not our Warden, could of at least gave us the chance.

Yup, and we'd be forced to play stupid Hawke who has no clue who Morrigan is and have to play dumb along with him. What fun. I think BioWare can go one of a couple ways with DA in terms of continuity and characters to keep me even remotely interested:

1.) You have each game almost entirely its own entity- like Baldur's Gate is entirely separate from Neverwinter Nights despite both being set in the Forgotten Realms. Give the PC to each game a proper Throne of Bhaal style expack to wrap up loose ends and be done with things.

2.) Keep the imports going with new PCs, but when necessary and to maintain any sense of emotional engagement, have it possible to play as your old PC when the story/characters call for it.

I'm just not interested in being forced to play as a new PC while trotting out old companions and buggy imports back into my face- that just reinforces the disconnect between player and PC no matter how you cut it. And thats a Very Bad Thing.

thenemesis1 wrote...
2. They tend to change characters over years, Anders was one that was so messed up and was my Warden's friend. So I can see them making the Warden out of touch and without reason. Making Hawke the hero that has to put down a once good man"if that happens, I will never buy a bioware game again". I also see them making Morrigan Evil and Flemeth good. If you ever look at how David writes a story, he is out to make you feel pain and very little good, not saying that is bad, just the way he does things.

I don't know what BioWare has planned and I don't think they even know where they;re going with Morrigan. Other than to bait people along claiming that they're not going to forget about it. I just have the feeling by the time they do get back to her, we'll all wish they had just forgotten about her and left her and the Warden alone.

thenemesis1 wrote...
3. So will Morrigan and the Warden show up with each other or solo to Hawke, we all have to know it's Hawke that will meet them both and if they are togeather when Hawke meets them....not going to go to well.
4 Now Bioware controls the Warden, so you can bet they will change him to their desire. Just think about that for a moment, they said we cant play him anymore and Mike said you would not see him as a playable character anymore. I have a bad feeling they will make our Warden a Boss fight.

Yeah, if BioWare starts lumping on motivations and character traits onto the Warden....just, no. If they reduced the Warden or Morrigan to a boss fight for some new Hero of Thedas, that would make giving up on DA and BioWare altogether really easy.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I'd rather they keep the Warden out and not screw him up.

Unless they're allowing the player to control the Warden again in some way, I don't see how BioWare would be able to pull off having the Warden return without it feeling lame in some way- whether thats mucking up their face or giving them a voice or not giving them a voice and lumping in a lame mute joke- I don't have much faith in BioWare to not screw up the Warden (or Morrigan for that matter)returning.

ximena wrote...

Apparently, it's Morrigan appreciation week over at tumblr.

This link should help you guys keep track of some of the postings. Haha. There's  an entry there that I think you'd all like. Like. Really, really like.  Haha.

Niiiiiiiice.

Modifié par Brockololly, 30 septembre 2011 - 03:58 .

[Esbatty]

I almost missed the existence of new morrigan art. Almost. *shamefaced*

[Jarlof Seoul]

[KnightofPhoenix]

Brockololly wrote...

<3:wub:

[Shade of Wolf]

Wow still going strong? On the subject I'd rather if my Warden didn't come back with Morrigan if he was gonna be messed up...

[Xilizhra]

Morriganites: I don't know if I've asked you this before, but what would all of your objections be to Morrigan possibly being bisexual in-game, assuming you have any?

[Brockololly]

Xilizhra wrote...

Morriganites: I don't know if I've asked you this before, but what would all of your objections be to Morrigan possibly being bisexual in-game, assuming you have any?

It would depend on how it was handled in a given game, but in general I  don't think I'd be a fan of it. WIth certain characters like Morrigan or Alistair or Aveline, they're pretty much established as being heterosexual. Or at the very least, with somebody like Morrigan, she shows absolutely zero interest in females. When Leliana starts leering at her breasts, Morrigan tells her to stop creeping her out. And Morrigan generally loves getting attention yet doesn't like it from Leliana. Or how Morrigan makes note of having been with other men before and flirts a bunch with other men. You add on top of that how she doesn't engage in a romance with the female Warden but instead can become best buddies. And then how she can romance the male Warden and ultimately have a child with him.

I just think if Morrigan were to come back in some future game at all as a romance-able character that right there is a big issue I wouldn't care for. And it would depend on whether or not BioWare would address the question of Morrigan's sexuality directly or whether it would be given the nebulous DA2 bisexual treatment where its never clear whether the companions are actually bisexual or simply Hawke-sexual. Regardless of if we're playing as a new PC, the player knows of Morrigan and her past from Origins, so simply having her accept the advances of a female PC would feel wrong based on the totality of her character and attitude from Origins where we're given a bunch of evidence she prefers men and has absolutely no interest in women sexually. Hell, she gets jealous and especially nasty around most other women, just look at her banters with Leliana or when you try to get her involved with Isabela/Zevran at the Pearl. 

After how DA2 handled LI's, bringing Morrigan back as a bisexual character would feel as if they were simply pandering. But more to the point, bringing Morrigan back as a potentially romance-able character with a new PC would be the worst idea possible.

[Xilizhra]

When Leliana starts leering at her breasts, Morrigan tells her to stop creeping her out.

Well, it's Leliana. Even Alistair is slightly creeped out by her at first. And they have several fundamental belief clashes during which Leliana manages to get a few jabs in at Morrigan.

Or how Morrigan makes note of having been with other men before and flirts a bunch with other men.

Like... Isabela?

You add on top of that how she doesn't engage in a romance with the female Warden but instead can become best buddies.

The female Warden is unable to flirt with her at all.

And it would depend on whether or not BioWare would address the question of Morrigan's sexuality directly or whether it would be given the nebulous DA2 bisexual treatment where its never clear whether the companions are actually bisexual or simply Hawke-sexual.

So how should it be implemented, then?

Hell, she gets jealous and especially nasty around most other women, just look at her banters with Leliana or when you try to get her involved with Isabela/Zevran at the Pearl.

In a banter with Zevran, Morrigan mentions that she hates sharing.

[Brockololly]

Xilizhra wrote...

Or how Morrigan makes note of having been with other men before and flirts a bunch with other men.

Like... Isabela?

Sure, but Isabela also hits on women and is open to the threesome in the Pearl with a female Warden and/or Leliana too. Morrigan never shows any such interest in women at all; only men.

Xilizhra wrote...

And it would depend on whether or not BioWare would address the question of Morrigan's sexuality directly or whether it would be given the nebulous DA2 bisexual treatment where its never clear whether the companions are actually bisexual or simply Hawke-sexual.

So how should it be implemented, then?

It shouldn't be.


I just generally think its an absolutely terrible idea to bring back any past love interest companion as possibly romance-able with a new PC with the old PC no where to be seen. Thats a terrible idea whether you're gay, straight, bi, lesbian, transsexual or whatever.

I like my NPCs well defined within the confines of the game. I think it makes for stronger characters. So you have somebody like Aveline who has a clear identity and part of that is her relationship she'll develop with that guard guy. She doesn't end up falling for Hawke half way through or anything. Or even Samara shutting down Shepard in ME2. I think a character's sexual identity can be an important part of their character and as such should be more of a fixed thing- they shouldn't just go all googly eye for the PC no matter what. So getting shut down by Samara or Aveline or being limited to friends with Morrigan as a female or bros with Alistair makes for a better experience I think. It makes the NPCs feel less like easily pliable puppets and more like actual characters with their own set beliefs and identity. Which I think makes for better roleplaying opportunities for the PC to react off of those more strongly characterized characters.

So having the likes of Alistair or Morrigan heterosexual as they've been established (especially as already existing LIs) would make sense going forward should we see them again. There is just no evidence as presented in Origins that Morrigan has any of those sort of feelings towards women, and if she showed up in some future game jumping all over the new female PC, it would feel incredibly fake and forced to me.

You can only go off of whats been presented in the game thus far and while there is tons of evidence that Morrigan likes men (and can fall in love and have a kid with a male Warden and only walk off into an Eluvian with her lover) there is nothing at all to show she might be interested in women. It would be no different than if they brought back Alistair as homosexual- it just would feel fake and forced based on what has been established of his character in Origins.

Modifié par Brockololly, 11 octobre 2011 - 06:22 .

[LilleF]

Morrigan has been brought up in almost isolation by a woman that has educated her that sex is a method of controlling men, and a manner to perhaps make children (as Flemeth needed daughters.. if that is to be believed).

She had a hard and sometimes cruel childhood inflicted by the sole woman figure in her life, so reasonably I feel the possibility of her then being attracted to woman was "beaten out of her" at an early age by Flemeth's powerful and dominant personality.

I feel that Bioware got it right in Origins where the sexual tendencies lie.

The thing I'm really glad about is that Flemeth wasn't a party member looking as she did in DA2 prologue, cos that would have been a harder choice for me between the mother and daughter 

Morrigan vs Lelianna was no contest.

Modifié par LilleF, 11 octobre 2011 - 01:28 .

[Xilizhra]

I just generally think its an absolutely terrible idea to bring back any past love interest companion as possibly romance-able with a new PC with the old PC no where to be seen. Thats a terrible idea whether you're gay, straight, bi, lesbian, transsexual or whatever.

The point of this was more related to in-game, as in Origins.

I think a character's sexual identity can be an important part of their character and as such should be more of a fixed thing- they shouldn't just go all googly eye for the PC no matter what. So getting shut down by Samara or Aveline or being limited to friends with Morrigan as a female or bros with Alistair makes for a better experience I think. It makes the NPCs feel less like easily pliable puppets and more like actual characters with their own set beliefs and identity. Which I think makes for better roleplaying opportunities for the PC to react off of those more strongly characterized characters.

I vehemently disagree. Bisexuality has nothing to do with weaker characterization, and to imply that it does implies that Leliana and Zevran were weaker characters. And even then, you have everyone being easily pliable to the Warden with morality/appearance/race/etc, making gender the only real distinction, and it seems highly arbitrary (except for those already privileged with the possibility of romancing them as their own gender; I have a slight feeling that you'd feel differently if Morrigan was lesbian).

But I shall reframe the question some. Would you have accepted it had Morrigan been bisexual in Origins?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...

But I shall reframe the question some. Would you have accepted it had Morrigan been bisexual in Origins?

That's a fundamental rephraming.

Had Morrigan been bisexual in Origins, then that would have been part of her character. Would it have changed my opinion of her? Most likely not.

But the issue is not "what ifs" but rather changing an established character's sexuality in future games for one reason only: fanservice. There is absolutely no hint, indication or anything even remotely pointing to Morrigan having any physical interest in women, quite the contrary (and it makes sense considering her upbringing). Unless there was an actual well-done and believable development involved, I would not welcome such a change at all. 

Now do I believe that Bioware romances should have a lot more restrictions than just gender? Absolutely and that's one major reason why their romances are just not interesting me anymore. I can do whatever, say whatever and be whatever and still can romance whoever I want.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 11 octobre 2011 - 06:47 .

[Xilizhra]

That's a fundamental rephraming.

My question was poorly phrased. But this conversation is interesting as well.

Unless there was an actual well-done and believable development involved, I would not welcome such a change at all.

So what would your standards for that be? What would have to be done?

Modifié par Xilizhra, 11 octobre 2011 - 06:49 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...

Unless there was an actual well-done and believable development involved, I would not welcome such a change at all.

So what would your standards for that be? What would have to be done?

Didn't really put much thought into it.
But I can see if they put effort into it, or simply just made her bisexual without bothering to explain or put it in context.

[Xilizhra]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Unless there was an actual well-done and believable development involved, I would not welcome such a change at all.

So what would your standards for that be? What would have to be done?

Didn't really put much thought into it.
But I can see if they put effort into it, or simply just made her bisexual without bothering to explain or put it in context.

Well, since she was an LI, it'd be more important to establish context than it was with Anders, whom no one could romance in Awakening. I think that ME3 might provide a decent model, though, when we see it.

[Brockololly]

Xilizhra wrote...
I vehemently disagree. Bisexuality has nothing to do with weaker characterization, and to imply that it does implies that Leliana and Zevran were weaker characters. And even then, you have everyone being easily pliable to the Warden with morality/appearance/race/etc, making gender the only real distinction, and it seems highly arbitrary (except for those already privileged with the possibility of romancing them as their own gender; I have a slight feeling that you'd feel differently if Morrigan was lesbian).

I'm not saying bisexual characters end up with weaker characterization necessarily- so long as they're made explicitly bisexual, like Leliana or Zevran or Isabela. I'm more thinking in terms of the developers having finite resources and how they could best use them in terms of characters. So I'd think having more defined characters, whether they be clearly heterosexual, homosexual, bi or whatever would make for more opportunities for the player and PC to roleplay and react to them in specific ways.

Like having Alistair be king but turn down the PC as queen if she's an elf- it makes sense within the lore of the world and for better or worse, its a consequence of the player choosing to play as an elf. Just as much as being able to be the father of the OGB with Morrigan is left to male PCs. Or how only players who romanced Morrigan can go through the Eluvian with her. Or how only female human nobles could be queen. Or how only females could be King Alistair's mistress.

I like that kind of exclusivity and reactivity in any RPG. So romancing Morrigan but not being able to romance Alistair as a male PC wasn't bad or unfair, its a consequence of the choice the player made. Now maybe they could have added in lines for the PC to try and flirt with Morrigan/Alistair and have them shoot the PC down? I just don't like how DA2 handled romances in making everyone available no matter what. I know a lot of people liked that, but it made things feel like there wasn't any effort involved.  Especially with how the romances felt one size fits all whether you were male/female . I just like having certain content blocked off and having exclusive content based on all sorts of choices.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

But I shall reframe the question some. Would you have accepted it had Morrigan been bisexual in Origins?

That's a fundamental rephraming.

Had Morrigan been bisexual in Origins, then that would have been part of her  character. Would it have changed my opinion of her? Most likely not.

But the issue is not "what ifs" but rather changing an established  character's sexuality in future games for one reason only: fanservice.  There is absolutely no hint, indication or anything even remotely  pointing to Morrigan having any physical interest in women, quite the  contrary (and it makes sense considering her upbringing). Unless there  was an actual well-done and believable development involved, I would not welcome such a change at all. 

Right- if Morrigan had been Bi from the start then ok. Its not like you'd have had anything else to go off of. But she has been established as showing no interest in females. At all.

I don't know how they'd "show" Morrigan be bisexual in the future if they went that route. It would have to involve a new PC, and as I've said, I don't like the idea of any old LI romancing a new PC. If BioWare not only tossed a Warden who romanced and had a kid with Morrigan to the curb but also had Morrigan change her sexuality and romance a new PC? Ugh:pinched:

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Now do I believe that Bioware  romances should have a lot more restrictions than just gender?  Absolutely and that's one major reason why their romances are just not  interesting me anymore. I can do whatever, say whatever and be whatever  and still can romance whoever I want.

Its funny- I remember right when I got Origins and as I was installing it, I was reading through the manual, looking over the specializations. I was thinking I wanted my first Warden to romance Morrigan and I was thinking that maybe if I went with a Templar specialization, either Morrigan wouldn't go for that or it would make it really difficult to romance her as a Templar.

Thats the kind of stuff they could add to make the romances and relationships feel more fleshed out. Not only in having more defined NPCs, but in having the NPCs react to the specifics of the PC more. So if you're a Templar, it might be hard to romance somebody like Morrigan. Or maybe its easier to romances Morrigan if your Warden has an amazing stubble beard, which Morrigan might make a comment on. Or the color of the PC's eyes. Or whatever class the PC is. Or maybe if you adjusted the facial sliders beyond a certain point, the NPC comments they find your nose terribly large and behind the scenes that makes them less likely to romance you initially.

Whereas with something like DA2's system, it feels very much like fanservice and there isn't much going on. Even something like Jaheira's romance in BG2 was complicated by the fact that you had so much dialogue with her and if you said the wrong things more than a couple times, she'd gladly break it off. But the whole thing felt more organic since the approval values were kept behind scenes.

Xilizhra wrote...
Well, since she was an LI, it'd be more important to establish context than  it was with Anders, whom no one could romance in Awakening. I think that ME3 might provide a decent model, though, when we see it.

I think with Anders it worked more than it could with Morrigan, for the reason you said- he wasn't an LI in Awakening. That wouldn't work with Morrigan, especially considering the Warden could not only romance her, but have a kid with her and go off into the Eluvian with her. Thats more involved than most other romances BioWare usually does.

Have they confirmed with ME3 that everyone will be bi? Haven't been following.

And some Morrigan art:

By: GrumperPants


By: leucove


By: lightpriestess


By: characterundefined



By: Adre-es

Modifié par Brockololly, 12 octobre 2011 - 02:27 .

[Xilizhra]

I just don't like how DA2 handled romances in making everyone available no matter what. I know a lot of people liked that, but it made things feel like there wasn't any effort involved. Especially with how the romances felt one size fits all whether you were male/female . I just like having certain content blocked off and having exclusive content based on all sorts of choices.

It's possible that some could have separate plotlines based on which gender was romancing them, I suppose, but I'm uncertain how that'd be done and having things be, well, separate but equal. I personally will err towards equality at all times.

I don't know how they'd "show" Morrigan be bisexual in the future if they went that route. It would have to involve a new PC, and as I've said, I don't like the idea of any old LI romancing a new PC. If BioWare not only tossed a Warden who romanced and had a kid with Morrigan to the curb but also had Morrigan change her sexuality and romance a new PC? Ugh

I think the Warden has a big fat target on their face. There are far too many variables to keep all possible Wardens straight (ahaha), and this mysterious vanishing sounds like an excellent way to get them all killed. Not that I'd explicitly oppose Morrigan vanishing too; my main reason in asking this question is how I can write a story involving Morrigan in a possible lesbian relationship without actually changing any of the presented events, other than the Warden's possible dialogue, though learning what you'd see as necessary for it to work in a new game would be useful as well.

Have they confirmed with ME3 that everyone will be bi? Haven't been following.

Some will be.