I like to think that the Warden’s disappearance is measured in months rather than years, that they are a fully functional family unit that has traveled the world together. The Warden could have easily used a mask in the Masked Empire for any public appearances, and could have easily slipped in and out in between Warden Missions or operations.
Actually this is my headcanon
Now I need a fanfic about it 
My take is a little different. First, because as I understand it, the Crossroads can be toxic to non-elves, but more importantly, secondly, because Morrigan emphatically states no son of hers will be raised in a marsh, bereft of outside contact… which in reality, isn’t that what the Crossroads is? An empty place with no one but the Warden, Morrigan and Kieran (and in my head canon Dogmeat)… so not unlike the Wilds Morrigan grew up in. I like the idea that they either left the Crossroads fairly not long after Morrigan and the Warden reunited, or at the very least, often traveled back and forth often.
Funnily enough, I was actually having this discussion with Brock in PM albeit with a slightly different spin - that Morrigan's WH speech about change was actually about her herself. That is a whole other post though best saved for the future as I don't want to broach it before he makes his post.
Anyway, I knew I should have elaborated a bit more on that first point but as I said above -
"to me that implies they'd already left Eluvian Land and gone elsewhere before HoF actually left on his journey, so that the "staying behind" remark actually makes (more) sense."
So I don't think they spent all that time in the Crossroads. However, Morri also says that other doors lead elsewhere, so it's possible they went to one of those places. I absolutely concur that Morrigan seemingly had a "what the heck am I doing raising my son in a swamp/weird strange realm, I'm not my mother" epiphany moment, and relocates some time after WH. That's something I'll be bringing up in a future post, don't you worry.
Additionally, in playthroughs without HoF going into the Eluvian (boooo) Morrigan states that she returned to Ferelden to look for him. So the question then becomes- how long were they in the Crossroads for before Kieran elicited sufficient change in her to change venue. This also applies to mother Morrigan in general as well, like you're getting at, since the change is brought about through her child.
You also have Morri's discussion of HoF's current quest in DAI, implying that they did further research on the matter together (otherwise Morrigan wouldn't know of Fiona, I assume) so I agree you can safely assert that other stuff went on outside of the Eluvian after WH. Morrigan ends up in Orlais regardless, which seems to be a location where it is relatively safe for both her and Kieran while also allowing her to continue researching old magic with a restored Eluvian without adversely impeding Kieran's upbringing, which would seem to be a win-win for her. However, you have to determine - was Morrigan's "gift" in WH the impetus to HoF striking out to find a cure, as hinted at in Avernus's notes in DA2. Thus, when you consider the power which magister-type beings like Corypheus wield over GWs (and the fact that the DAI epilogue is pointing towards some not-so-nice event for the GWs) it's in HoF's best interests to find the cure to that asap. Therefore, he can't just rest on his laurels indefinitely idling away the years with Morri, I think (don't quote me on it) even if Avernus is dead, Morrigan says that HoF researched the Blight on his own, so you'll probably find that HoF's whole quest is BioWare's pre-emptive way of letting the HoF escape an undesirable fate wrought by an upcoming event.
For the Cousland Warden, Highever would be an optimal place to go, Fergus would certainly accept them with open arms. For any Warden who choose the King of Orzammar, again (at least my canon) King Bhelen would give them safe haven. Also, whether Dwarf, Elf or Human, the HOF could find safe haven in Denerim having either anointed Queen Anora or (my canon) King Al and Anora.
Perhaps, she does say they lived together for a time and is non-specific about where that is, so I can buy into that readily enough. But Morrigan would still want to keep both herself and Kieran safe from Flemeth, which would be a higher priority for her than idyllic domestic bliss.
Leliana in DAI talks of repeatedly writing to the Warden for advice, this would not be possible if they spent a huge amount of time in exclusively in the Crossroads (homing pigeons have no route to get there), up to Kieran being what, about 7ish before Morrigan shows up in Orlais?
Then, what is it? Act 2 of DA2, King Alistair and Tegan (teeeeeghaaaan) talk about the HOF being back in Denerim.
I never thought we'd get onto discussing homing pigeons in the Morrigan thread, but there you have it. You're right and as I said, I'm not saying they spent all that time in the Eluvian, but expressing doubt that they spent any significant length of time together while Morrigan was in Orlais, simply because of the mutual risks that it could pose to all concerned (and that HoF has a pressing issue to deal with). Having it be known that Morrigan is involved with such a famous figure and that Kieran is their child would be considerable leverage that could be used against her, particularly as she was rising to a fairly prominent position in court.
Or maybe Leliana just had some really smart pigeons 
(they were probably experts on elven lore too)
As for the Teagan/Alistair comment - haha, that was DA2's little faux pas against Eluvian wardens back then. Though it now can be used to serve our purpose and support the idea that HoF and Morrigan were out and about post-WH.
And still, I don’t see DAI Morrigan and the Warden have being separated all that long. Once separation lasts into years, people start to miss others less and more begin to accept that they are no longer around. I can’t believe the Warden was gone for years and Kieran misses him greatly, he would simply (if not only out of a defense mechanism) eventually accept that he is no longer going to be around.
I like to think that the Warden’s disappearance is measured in months rather than years, that they are a fully functional family unit that has traveled the world together. The Warden could have easily used a mask in the Masked Empire for any public appearances, and could have easily slipped in and out in between Warden Missions or operations.
I mostly addressed this in my big opening section at the top. I know what you're saying but Morrigan was apart from your warden for over two years, did he stop missing her? The issue from my perspective is, you'd think that any Calling cure quest undertaken by HoF wouldn't be some quick five-minute trip down the lane type affair, it seems the type of thing he'd really have to work for after already having done the prep-work with Morrigan. In that respect, it fits better, imo, that Morrigan would sort of settle within Orlais for a time while he's off doing his thing. Bear in mind - it was important to Morrigan even back in DAO that HoF live on, so now that she's accepted her feelings for him, it follows that she'd be willing to be apart for a time if it meant they would ultimately have a longer life together.
That second picture is blashemy. I refuse to acknowledge its existence.
If they were gonna do it, that's the way it should be done, with the relevant character(s) there reacting to the event, certainly not like how they offed Warden Alistair. But they should be prepared for the ensuing meltdowns it'd prompt. And should BioWare bring back Morri and kill her with a new PC to witness it, you'll be wishing that picture back into existence!
Actually this is my headcanon
Now I need a fanfic about it
Why not write one then?
I wouldn't dare
English is not my first language and I just can't write well
Hoping that someday someone will come out with this though
I would love more Cousland/Morrigan fics actually
Funnily enough, I was actually having this discussion with Brock in PM albeit with a slightly different spin - that Morrigan's WH speech about change was actually about her herself. That is a whole other post though best saved for the future as I don't want to broach it before he makes his post.
Anyway, I knew I should have elaborated a bit more on that first point but as I said above -
"to me that implies they'd already left Eluvian Land and gone elsewhere before HoF actually left on his journey, so that the "staying behind" remark actually makes (more) sense."
So I don't think they spent all that time in the Crossroads. However, Morri also says that other doors lead elsewhere, so it's possible they went to one of those places. I absolutely concur that Morrigan seemingly had a "what the heck am I doing raising my son in aswamp/weird strange realm, I'm not my mother" epiphany moment, and relocates some time after WH. That's something I'll be bringing up in a future post, don't you worry.
Additionally, in playthroughs without HoF going into the Eluvian (boooo) Morrigan states that she returned to Ferelden to look for him. So the question then becomes- how long were they in the Crossroads for before Kieran elicited sufficient change in her to change venue. This also applies to mother Morrigan in general as well, like you're getting at, since the change is brought about through her child.
You also have Morri's discussion of HoF's current quest in DAI, implying that they did further research on the matter together (otherwise Morrigan wouldn't know of Fiona, I assume) so I agree you can safely assert that other stuff went on outside of the Eluvian after WH. Morrigan ends up in Orlais regardless, which seems to be a location where it is relatively safe for both her and Kieran while also allowing her to continue researching old magic with a restored Eluvian without adversely impeding Kieran's upbringing, which would seem to be a win-win for her. However, you have to determine - was Morrigan's "gift" in WH the impetus to HoF striking out to find a cure, as hinted at in Avernus's notes in DA2. Thus, when you consider the power which magister-type beings like Corypheus wield over GWs (and the fact that the DAI epilogue is pointing towards some not-so-nice event for the GWs) it's in HoF's best interests to find the cure to that asap. Therefore, he can't just rest on his laurels indefinitely idling away the years with Morri, I think (don't quote me on it) even if Avernus is dead, Morrigan says that HoF researched the Blight on his own, so you'll probably find that HoF's whole quest is BioWare's pre-emptive way of letting the HoF escape an undesirable fate wrought by an upcoming event.
Perhaps, she does say they lived together for a time and is non-specific about where that is, so I can buy into that readily enough. But Morrigan would still want to keep both herself and Kieran safe from Flemeth, which would be a higher priority for her than idyllic domestic bliss.
I never thought we'd get onto discussing homing pigeons in the Morrigan thread, but there you have it. You're right and as I said, I'm not saying they spent all that time in the Eluvian, but expressing doubt that they spent any significant length of time together while Morrigan was in Orlais, simply because of the mutual risks that it could pose to all concerned (and that HoF has a pressing issue to deal with). Having it be known that Morrigan is involved with such a famous figure and that Kieran is their child would be considerable leverage that could be used against her, particularly as she was rising to a fairly prominent position in court.
Or maybe Leliana just had some really smart pigeons
As for the Teagan/Alistair comment - haha, that was DA2's little faux pas against Eluvian wardens back then. Though it now can be used to serve our purpose and support the idea that HoF and Morrigan were out and about post-WH.
I mostly addressed this in my big opening section at the top. I know what you're saying but Morrigan was apart from your warden for over two years, did he stop missing her? The issue from my perspective is, you'd think that any Calling cure quest undertaken by HoF wouldn't be some quick five-minute trip down the lane type affair, it seems the type of thing he'd really have to work for after already having done the prep-work with Morrigan. In that respect, it fits better, imo, that Morrigan would sort of settle within Orlais for a time while he's off doing his thing. Bear in mind - it was important to Morrigan even back in DAO that HoF live on, so now that she's accepted her feelings for him, it follows that she'd be willing to be apart for a time if it meant they would ultimately have a longer life together.
If they were gonna do it, that's the way it should be done, with the relevant character(s) there reacting to the event, certainly not like how they offed Warden Alistair. But they should be prepared for the ensuing meltdowns it'd prompt. And should BioWare bring back Morri and kill her with a new PC to witness it, you'll be wishing that picture back into existence!
Why not write one then?
I apologize in advance, as I have not mastered the art of the multi-quote. Whether it’s my browser or my lack of skill, I do not know, I just don’t know how to make it work!
Thanks, because I was totally worried! Lol
I like your idea that WH’s gift was a potential lead on a cure for the Calling, it is not something I would have come up with, and certainly explains the Warden’s quest for the cure even if he did not go through the Eluvian. I like it.
There is DAI dialogue about her returning to Ferelden to make an attempt at contact. Its one of the best lines in DAI (which I saw on youtube because I would only import a world state where HOF goes through the eluvian), and shows Morrigan’s growth, albeit, as I have ranted previously, the DR talk is just annoying… even WH's… I believe you can ask Morrigan, "...will I ever see you again?" And her response is ‘Not if you’re lucky;” this simply is the epitome of empty, annoying and amateurish writing. Just more mumbo-jumbo from the writers, the statement's origin is completely empty babbling, whose end result is absolutely pointless BS. My WH Warden saw her again, and it was the best thing to happen to him. More Mumbo-Jumbo to create empty, fake drama that doesn't exist.. aka the DR.
Again, yes, Morrigan would be more interested in protection than bliss; but in a country where hiding behind a mask and being something you’re not is the national pastime, who better to protect Morrigan and Kieran than an incognito HoF?
Kind of important: The SOLE dependence on anonymity did neither Morrigan nor Kieran ANY good at the end of the WoS mission, where Flemeth finds Kieran. Period. Flemeth finds him, the celebrity of the HoF or not.
Would both of them be better protected if the HoF was there, or if he was thousand of miles away????? The answer, at least I believe, is obvious. While not suggesting he was always there, it doesn’t speak well of him if he is the absentee father that has been suggested.
Again… yes, The Warden was away from Morrigan for 2 years-ish, but he is an adult (well, my Warden being a quazi-adult). Kieran is a little boy whose father might be absent from his life for 40-50-60% of his life… that plays a role. 2 years in the life of a 25 year old man is 8% of their life. 4-5 years in the life of a 10 year old boy is 40-50% of their life. If one's father was absent 50% of one's life, there should be next to no expectation that he would be there in the future, evicerating the "misses greatly" idea.
I stand by the comment that at some point, the kid very well could stop missing his father and would totally accept the fact that his father isn't going to be around much and there’s no expectation to believe that will change... unless he had previously been an vital part of the boy's life. Your opinion is not without merit, but we certainly can agree to disagree on this point.
I believe, solely by Morrigan's statement that, ".. he has been a good partner, and a good father," that the HoF has played a more significant role in both of their lives as to be far more than a passing footnote, a non-existent, absentee father/partner, more intent on saving his skin (however noble in the end) than being a part of his son's life.
It’s been my dream to bring homing pigeons into the thread… it’s something I feel has been lacking. But is the issue so pressing? Like it or not, the DAO canon is 30 years and then the calling, give or take, the HOF has been a Warden for what (not exactly sure of the time line) 10-12 years? While I know DG has said he regretted this and wanted it to be 10 years-ish, the fact of the matter is I can go to a specific point of the game and show, for better or for worse, it’s clearly stated normally about 30 years. Of course things can change, but if that is to be believed, it’s not like he’s desperately up against the clock and needing a cure in the next week or two.
As far as the second picture goes, you underestimate my capacity to ignore BW's 'default' state. I've completely and totally disregarded Morrigan's attitude at the WoS.... it was exceptionally easy. Regardless of any death BW might have in store for Morrigan or the Warden, it will be instantaneously and summarily ignored at the speed of light. The picture does not exist lol.
I wouldn't dare
English is not my first language and I just can't write well
Hoping that someday someone will come out with this though
I would love more Cousland/Morrigan fics actually
I write a few fics here and there. How do people feel about shamelessly self promoting links to fanfics?
It’s been my dream to bring homing pigeons into the thread… it’s something I feel has been lacking.
Was there ever a Shale discussion/research thread? That's where the pigeon talk belongs 
I write a few fics here and there. How do people feel about shamelessly self promoting links to fanfics?
I doubt anyone will mind, provided it is up to the exacting standards of the Morri thread, of course.
I apologize in advance, as I have not mastered the art of the multi-quote. Whether it’s my browser or my lack of skill, I do not know, I just don’t know how to make it work!
Yes. I will echo this sentiment. How in the hell do you properly multiquote a single post so that the author's name shows up and everything? I can get the first quote but using the normal [ quote = author ] [ / quote ] doesn't work.
Anyway, have some Morrigan fanart while I keep trying to format/fix my too long post!
From Anathematixs
Yes. I will echo this sentiment. How in the hell do you properly multiquote a single post so that the author's name shows up and everything? I can get the first quote but using the normal [ quote = author ] [ / quote ] doesn't work.
Like so, you need to click the button in the top left corner (the non-ghosted one in my pic below) first to switch the post editing mode, then you basically just copy across the entire quote header generated by the board, it's more of a pain than the old system:
Anyway, have some Morrigan fanart while I keep trying to format/fix my too long post!
From Anathematixs
That's a stunning piece of art, I love all the little details in that pic.
Yes. I will echo this sentiment. How in the hell do you properly multiquote a single post so that the author's name shows up and everything? I can get the first quote but using the normal [ quote = author ] [ / quote ] doesn't work.
Anyway, have some Morrigan fanart while I keep trying to format/fix my too long post!
From Anathematixs
Awesome. I can see a bit of DAO Morrigan. 2 Thumbs up!
There is DAI dialogue about her returning to Ferelden to make an attempt at contact. Its one of the best lines in DAI (which I saw on youtube because I would only import a world state where HOF goes through the eluvian), and shows Morrigan’s growth, albeit, as I have ranted previously, the DR talk is just annoying… even WH's… I believe you can ask Morrigan, "...will I ever see you again?" And her response is ‘Not if you’re lucky;” this simply is the epitome of empty, annoying and amateurish writing. Just more mumbo-jumbo from the writers, the statement's origin is completely empty babbling, whose end result is absolutely pointless BS. My WH Warden saw her again, and it was the best thing to happen to him. More Mumbo-Jumbo to create empty, fake drama that doesn't exist.. aka the DR.
Well Ash, I can't and won't defend how they handled the questioning of Morrigan in the whole DR sequence. We both know the inherent issues with that scene coupled with how the cuts hurt the perception of the plotline and character. I wouldn't say it was all necessarily for nothing, nor devoid of purpose/meaning, sure on the surface, that's one take - that it was drama for drama's sake. But ultimately, over time, what the warden did for her ultimately changed her, to the extent where she's seemingly changed her mind on her plans - that change of heart isn't nothing imo, even if you never hear the specifics of what her plan was. Or taken another way, even when they're apart, Kieran in some way serves as a constant reminder of HoF, thus being a partial contributor to allowing him to join her in WH whilst also carrying forward the whole larger change over time aspect to her development.
There's bitter irony in there in that the US wardens who couldn't/wouldn't trust someone "untrustworthy" in doing so, threw their lives away for nothing, which I'm fine with. Taking a leap of faith on the ability of Morrigan to change and become a better mother than Flemeth is very much an extension of her friendship/romance arcs. Not every choice is going to culminate in a game changer and sometimes the personal note hits a lot closer to home, which is the abridged version of the relevant section of my big post. Considering the OGB outcome came from the company that brought you red/green/blue, I thought it was quite well handled - the outcome speaks well of our favourite character, so it's all good imo.
On the other side of the coin, tell me- if they had gone with a darker Morrigan outcome, which you've touched on before, would we not be here raging about something completely different? For better or worse, it is what it is.
Again, yes, Morrigan would be more interested in protection than bliss; but in a country where hiding behind a mask and being something you’re not is the national pastime, who better to protect Morrigan and Kieran than an incognito HoF?
Heh, well there's a blurred line here between the in-game rationale and BioWare's rampant desire to write the HoF offscreen at every given opportunity, because apparently giving him some cameo role requires a herculean effort. You have to be willing to at least buy into the premise as presented by the game and meet it halfway I suppose. I think I've brought up the idea of HoF maybe dropping by from time to time before, so I'm not against the idea, but I don't know enough about the specifics of his travels to say for sure whether that is practical or not. If you want to believe that, it's cool with me.
Kind of important: The SOLE dependence on anonymity did neither Morrigan nor Kieran ANY good at the end of the WoS mission, where Flemeth finds Kieran. Period. Flemeth finds him, the celebrity of the HoF or not.
Obviously the most direct threat to them would be Flemeth but there are several interested parties in Orlais who would benefit from taking Morrigan out of the picture, thus, hiding those connection serves everyone's best interests as there are simply fewer apparent attack vectors to use against her. I think enemies in court and Flemeth are two separate issues, really. The only reason Flemeth found Morrigan was she suddenly decided to behave in a rash, foolish manner, which is all on BioWare and it's really a stunning oversight considering how the DR cuts harmed her last big choice.
Would both of them be better protected if the HoF was there, or if he was thousand of miles away????? The answer, at least I believe, is obvious. While not suggesting he was always there, it doesn’t speak well of him if he is the absentee father that has been suggested.
Of course they would, but we both know the real reason HoF isn't there and it has nothing to do with in-game rationale. You can either roll with that reason or accept the one offered by the game or deny both, I suppose. If DAI had been a major affront to me on every level, my stance would be different, but it wasn't so I don't feel the need to pick it apart in that way. But to be fair to BioWare - the whole Calling thing was something that people wanted to see addressed and how they tied in his quest with DAI's events was infinitely preferable to "lol, he disappeared" from the previous game. So again, I'll give them some leeway on that front. Coming back to what I mentioned a while back - maybe Morrigan & HoF felt now was the optimal time for HoF to make the attempt - he's still young, fit and healthy, presumably has the support of old warden companions, Morrigan has proven herself and she and Kieran have *felt* safe from Flemeth for several years. As I recall Morri does bring to the table info on how Corypheus uses the blight right off the bat iirc. It's not too much of a stretch to posit from there that she'd encourage HoF to pursue a solution sooner rather than later if she had any inkling that GWs could be controlled en masse, etc.
Again… yes, The Warden was away from Morrigan for 2 years-ish, but he is an adult (well, my Warden being a quazi-adult). Kieran is a little boy whose father might be absent from his life for 40-50-60% of his life… that plays a role. 2 years in the life of a 25 year old man is 8% of their life. 4-5 years in the life of a 10 year old boy is 40-50% of their life. If one's father was absent 50% of one's life, there should be next to no expectation that he would be there in the future, evicerating the "misses greatly" idea.
I stand by the comment that at some point, the kid very well could stop missing his father and would totally accept the fact that his father isn't going to be around much and there’s no expectation to believe that will change... unless he had previously been an vital part of the boy's life. Your opinion is not without merit, but we certainly can agree to disagree on this point.
I believe, solely by Morrigan's statement that, ".. he has been a good partner, and a good father," that the HoF has played a more significant role in both of their lives as to be far more than a passing footnote, a non-existent, absentee father/partner, more intent on saving his skin (however noble in the end) than being a part of his son's life.
I understand (especially why you'd want their time apart to be a shorter timespan) and I don't even disagree with you. However, with BioWare being hellbent on having HoF eternally off-screen, even to the detriment of continuing plotlines, continuity, plot coherence and the player's desired end-state, since I don't want to selectively ignore certain undesirable aspects of the game (unless they screw up on an unprecedented scale), I have to come up with some logical reasoning that makes sense for me. I can't easily selectively omit specific scenes like you can, sadly. If you feel it should be a shorter timespan - that's fine in my book.
There's still a gulf of difference between "Kieran, your father is going to be away for a while, but he'll rejoin us again soon enough" and "Kieran, your father was a fool who wouldn't listen to me and threw his life away for nothing, hence why you've never met him" and I feel that the living HoF we're discussing has his priorities in the right place. Morrigan makes it clear that he is important to her and they both miss him, thus we can conclude that he's far from forgotten, regardless of how long it's been. As an aside, there's actually an interesting dialogue about this issue in Pillars of Eternity,
But is the issue so pressing? Like it or not, the DAO canon is 30 years and then the calling, give or take, the HOF has been a Warden for what (not exactly sure of the time line) 10-12 years? While I know DG has said he regretted this and wanted it to be 10 years-ish, the fact of the matter is I can go to a specific point of the game and show, for better or for worse, it’s clearly stated normally about 30 years. Of course things can change, but if that is to be believed, it’s not like he’s desperately up against the clock and needing a cure in the next week or two.
In the immediacy of that moment, perhaps not - unless that gift or whatever Morrigan discovered ties in with the whole GW event alluded to in DAI's epilogue. But in terms of real world time and BioWare wanting to be done with a character and not keep having to field fresh excuses for them, yeah, it's likely important- the players want answers now/yesterday as the LIs often represent the desired end state for the character. Unless you want more "bittersweet" BS for the nth time. Still better to get ahead of the whole thing, in my view.
*snip
Again, still can’t make the multi-quote work. In IE I can’t even quote, in Firefox, the multi-quote doesn’t seem to work. I have a new alienware computer being delivered soon, maybe it will work then. Lol 
Well, as you may have noticed, I do like to rant about the DR from ‘this’ side of things (aka a player looking at the game and driven mad by plot holes lol). Yes, you are correct when you say that in-game factors could have changed Morrigan’s thoughts and plans; her love for the Warden… the effect of Kieran on her, her maturity as a character, etc. etc. The weakness with that is that it’s largely a NPC making internal decisions which the player isn’t privy to and is made off-screen. Even in WH, when you first encounter Morrigan, she seems happier to see Dogmeat than you. And up to the very last line of dialogue she is combative and reluctant.
I agree with your comments on the US, and even have posted such thoughts on other threads. While on one hand, I can somewhat understand it if one never romanced or befriended Morrigan, how there could have been a hesitation. Still, those who only mistrusted Morrigan because she was ‘mean’ to Leliana, Wynn and Alistair (we know she was just being defensive) and sacrificed their canon Warden based on this, basically saves the world from a weird talking little boy who, 10-12 uneventful years later ultimately loses the object of the DR in the first place. Doesn't seem like all that great a reason to die.
If they had gone darker on the DR, I wouldn’t be raging. We know Morrigan is essentially the devious Witch of the Wilds with the Heart of Gold (and Gold Mirror); but we also know she was raised by Flemeth. Now, I’ve always liked Flemeth in DAO, she did nothing but help the Warden in DAO, but there was always the undertone of the sinister with her. When it came to the ritual, had they gone all postal, you at least had several hints… (it was after all not called the Golden Ritual, or the White and Rosy Ritual…) it was called the Dark Ritual, derived from Flemeth. If it had gone dark, I wouldn’t have liked it, but could have respected it.
I don’t think I elucidated contempt for the DAI Warden mission to cure the calling. In fact, it is exactly something my spoiled, self-preservationist (up to a point, despite the Blight, he still destroyed the Anvil of the Void because it was evil) Cousland Warden would embark upon... He owns the heart and affections of the most beautiful woman in Thedas, he has an adorably intelligent and awesome son with her, and is worshipped by the masses as a hero and savior (just ask Dagna!)... life is good, why wouldn't he want to extend it. My issues are a) the implication that up until 3 years ago, Morri, Kieran and HoF were alone in the Crossroads, which flies in the face of Morrigan emphatically stating no son of hers would be raised in the same harmful isolation as she was, and b.) the implication that the moment Morrigan went to Orlais the Warden has been MIA, that doesn’t work for me or reinforce Morrigan’s statement, “… he has been a good father .”
On the PoE note, I just found that feisty little Dwarf, she’s awesome. But she wonders (empathy) if they remember her, she doesn’t actually know if they’ve forgotten her or if she is omnipresent in their thoughts. The fact of the matter is, her family could very well have moved on without her, getting used to the idea that she is no longer around.
Both Morrigan’s arc and the Cousland Warden’s arc do in fact mirror themselves – both are separated from their safe and secure world-state (by death or circumstance) and are essentially cast into a hostile world alone and unprepared…
...though the thought has occurred to me, that even though there is probably no DAO world-state for it, what if the Warden doesn’t give Morrigan the first grimoire, and Morrigan never learns of (at least how she interprets it) Flemeth’s body snatching ways, how might DAO and the DR be different, would Morrigan return to Flemeth after the DR???...
Not to derail the discussion lol...
In my eyes, that's something the subsequent DA protagonists have been missing... It is an awesome story how the Warden and Morrigan found each other... even further... how the Warden knocked down her walls with, to quote Morrigan, "interest and kindness," she had never known, its even more impressive that it happens in the aftermath of his most tragic circumstance of everyone in his safe world being massacred and losing his life of privilege all in one night, all the while having the enormous pressures of defeating the blight placed squarely upon his shoulders. Wynn wasn’t my favorite character, but when she apologizes and recognizes the love Morrigan and the Warden have found in the midst of chaos was a particularly touching line of dialogue, especially coming from Morrigan’s polar opposite...
Sappy crap rulz lol. 
I wouldn't dare
English is not my first language and I just can't write well
Hoping that someday someone will come out with this though
I would love more Cousland/Morrigan fics actually
Was there ever a Shale discussion/research thread? That's where the pigeon talk belongs
I doubt anyone will mind, provided it is up to the exacting standards of the Morri thread, of course.
Exacting standards? Now I'm scared.
Ah what the hell. Here, have at them.
In my eyes, that's something the subsequent DA protagonists have been missing... It is an awesome story how the Warden and Morrigan found each other... even further... how the Warden knocked down her walls with, to quote Morrigan, "interest and kindness," she had never known, its even more impressive that it happens in the aftermath of his most tragic circumstance of everyone in his safe world being massacred and losing his life of privilege all in one night, all the while having the enormous pressures of defeating the blight placed squarely upon his shoulders. Wynn wasn’t my favorite character, but when she apologizes and recognizes the love Morrigan and the Warden have found in the midst of chaos was a particularly touching line of dialogue, especially coming from Morrigan’s polar opposite...
Sappy crap rulz lol.
https://www.fanficti...A-Fond-Farewell
Since you were talking about Wynne's reaction to Morrigan and the Warden's relationship... This had been on my mind for a while.
And now for one of those "Warden shows up in Skyhold" fics:
https://www.fanficti...autiful-Madness
Exacting standards? Now I'm scared.
Ah what the hell. Here, have at them.
https://www.fanficti...A-Fond-Farewell
Since you were talking about Wynne's reaction to Morrigan and the Warden's relationship... This had been on my mind for a while.
And now for one of those "Warden shows up in Skyhold" fics:
Those were so good 
I hope you plan to write more. Love your writing!
Those were so good
I hope you plan to write more. Love your writing!
Currently I'm working on one that's basically just Kieran and Morrigan interacting with the residents of Skyhold, with more references to the HoF than the actual game. That one I'm going to finish at least several chapters before I post though. Because editing is a thing I hate to do but need to 
.
On the topic of Fergus, and this is all my headcanon, Warden Cousland has yet to gather the courage to take Kieran to Highever.
And the more he resembles Oren, the harder it gets.
He knows his brother doesn't hate him, but he also knows Fergus' wife and son died on his watch. He loves his brother far too much to risk make him even more resentful than he certainly already is.
On the topic of Fergus, and this is all my headcanon, Warden Cousland has yet to gather the courage to take Kieran to Highever.
And the more he resembles Oren, the harder it gets.
He knows his brother doesn't hate him, but he also knows Fergus' wife and son died on his watch. He loves his brother far too much to risk make him even more resentful than he certainly already is.
My question is, has he even told Fergus that he has a son? Like maybe he told him in a letter, but he couldn't take him to visit when Kieran was younger because they were either in the Crossroads/other world, or in Orlais, and as time passes on and like you said Kieran comes to resemble Oren more the HoF suddenly has yet another reason to avoid going back to Highever. Whatever Fergus' reaction, it's certain to be conflicted. Like on the one hand another family member. But on the other hand it'd be like a ghost appearing in his life.
Or maybe he never told Fergus, like he never told anyone, because he's trying to keep Kieran safe. And now ten years have passed and he's afraid to tell Fergus because "Why didn't you tell me sooner?" as well as the obvious family resemblance.
Though it is fun to imagine Morrigan interracting with her brother-in-law
Fergus probably remarried since he is Teyrn now he needs heirs, plus it's been 10 years of course he still feels for all his family but I doubt he's in some sort of depression or would resent the HoF in any way. I imagine he would be happy to know there's one more addition to his family since he also lost everyone.
Imagine how lonely Fergus must have felt knowing he only had his brother left.
In my headcanon I like to think that after their little time in the Crossroads there's where they went, stayed in Highever a little then moved on to Orlais, with the HoF still handling grey warden business of course (like going to Denerim meet Alistair as it was mentioned in DA2)
Well, as you may have noticed, I do like to rant about the DR from ‘this’ side of things (aka a player looking at the game and driven mad by plot holes lol). Yes, you are correct when you say that in-game factors could have changed Morrigan’s thoughts and plans; her love for the Warden… the effect of Kieran on her, her maturity as a character, etc. etc. The weakness with that is that it’s largely a NPC making internal decisions which the player isn’t privy to and is made off-screen. Even in WH, when you first encounter Morrigan, she seems happier to see Dogmeat than you. And up to the very last line of dialogue she is combative and reluctant.
Are there any Morri thread old timers that don't like rants? It's been a thread staple for years. We've been fairly rant-free of late though which is a nice change. I don't think whether or not she was changed is up for debate, if the warden isn't with her, she's still *very* grateful for what they did for her and I think she's referring to her son in that respect. In hindsight, I'd say that the Morri we saw in WH was still by and large her old self, but had perhaps unwittingly started to change somewhat.
As for the dog, come on, I know you're being facetious but damn, Morri's relationship with HoF is somewhat more complex than that with the Dog. Dog didn't have a grand speech prepared to convince her to change her mind, after all and as an animal is someone that she can implicitly trust not to betray her. Morrigan is a challenging woman, true, but we wouldn't have it any other way.
If they had gone darker on the DR, I wouldn’t be raging. We know Morrigan is essentially the devious Witch of the Wilds with the Heart of Gold (and Gold Mirror); but we also know she was raised by Flemeth. Now, I’ve always liked Flemeth in DAO, she did nothing but help the Warden in DAO, but there was always the undertone of the sinister with her. When it came to the ritual, had they gone all postal, you at least had several hints… (it was after all not called the Golden Ritual, or the White and Rosy Ritual…) it was called the Dark Ritual, derived from Flemeth. If it had gone dark, I wouldn’t have liked it, but could have respected it.
I'm not so sure there was though if you look at things more closely, Morrigan just describes it as old magic rather than inherently "dark". Looking back how much of Morrigan's "sinister motives" come from her, as opposed to other party members. Like how you'll have the typical unthinking player - "oh Morrigan is so mean, she said that we should kill so and so" yet she never actually *does* any of these things. Meanwhile you've got Sten who murdered that family at the beginning of the game, an assassin, a spy, an abomination etc all casting aspersions against her. It's like a travelling party of people living in glass houses. If you strip away much of the bravado and perspectives projected onto her through the other companions, to me it again simply becomes a question of trust - the rest of the party don't trust her, but does the player?
As for Flemeth, well yeah, she does help the Warden, but when you hear Morrigan's version of things and join the dots, it's fairly clear that Flemeth deliberately set her up to be hated by the outside world - who would bother to take the time to break through those walls and sharp barbs, listen to her and help her break free of her mother? It's another reason why she was extremely lucky to chance upon HoF because nobody else in the DAO troupe was up for her bullshit - how better to craft the perfect future host body than to shape her in one's own image - the rest of the party view her as an apostate witch of the wilds, Flemeth's daughter who is up to no good, which quickly becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. This is likely the number one reason why the DR was never such a quandary for us because we'd already seen the other side to Morrigan. So, just as the Warden sees Morrigan in a different light to the rest of the party, could the same not be said of the DR, to some extent?
My issues are a) the implication that up until 3 years ago, Morri, Kieran and HoF were alone in the Crossroads, which flies in the face of Morrigan emphatically stating no son of hers would be raised in the same harmful isolation as she was, and b.) the implication that the moment Morrigan went to Orlais the Warden has been MIA, that doesn’t work for me or reinforce Morrigan’s statement, “… he has been a good father .”
a- No, I'm happy to concede that the three of them spent an indeterminable length of time in the Crossroads, then left and did other things before that three year period (pre-DAI) you're talking about. That should take care of that issue.
b- That's a point we'll have to agree to disagree on, I suppose. I'm not against it in principal but it strikes me as the type of thing where BioWare might retroactively swoop in and get a little more specific on what transpired during that time period, so for the sake of my own sanity, I'll go with something they can't tarnish. I don't think the warden is ever totally MIA as far as the two of them are concerned as they have the ring which embodies the idea of "not always together, but never apart" which represents a deep personal bond between the two. Personally, what I think BioWare should have done was have HoF and Hawke's appearances be set up prior to the game beginning and then they could have had a very brief visual only cameo of HoF interacting with Morrigan (or Leliana) to put a different spin on how she's introduced- maybe the Inquisitor sees her interacting with a masked guy at a distance during the ball, maybe they share an embrace and he walks off, you don't know who it is and she brushes you off if pressed, but later on she could elaborate on it. Some kind of spin on that premise, it struck me as odd to have 3 of the 4 DAO LIs present, a major GW plotline and no actual appearance from the guy himself.
On the PoE note, I just found that feisty little Dwarf, she’s awesome. But she wonders (empathy) if they remember her, she doesn’t actually know if they’ve forgotten her or if she is omnipresent in their thoughts. The fact of the matter is, her family could very well have moved on without her, getting used to the idea that she is no longer around.
They certainly could have, which is why I found it to be an interesting conversation in light of our discussion here, but the only times when Kieran's parents go all deadbeat father/mother is when BioWare makes them do it - see WoS, cure quests, Morrigan leaving in DAO, etc.
Both Morrigan’s arc and the Cousland Warden’s arc do in fact mirror themselves – both are separated from their safe and secure world-state (by death or circumstance) and are essentially cast into a hostile world alone and unprepared…
...though the thought has occurred to me, that even though there is probably no DAO world-state for it, what if the Warden doesn’t give Morrigan the first grimoire, and Morrigan never learns of (at least how she interprets it) Flemeth’s body snatching ways, how might DAO and the DR be different, would Morrigan return to Flemeth after the DR???...
Maybe... She has a line somewhere where she swore to Flemeth not to leave the Wilds again after her last venture, so I guess it's possible, though she may still be resentful of being cast out by Flemeth. The journey would still represent the greatest distance she's ever been from the wilds and Flemeth, but I don't know... I think the implication is even if Morrigan is told to take a hike that she stalks/tracks/follows the warden's actions, hence why she'd able to intercept them before the big battle, I guess she could pick up hints of what Flemeth has in store for her elsewhere, like from the Dalish. But like you get at elsewhere, some choices probably have so few people taking them, it's worthless to dedicate time/manpower to them.
In my eyes, that's something the subsequent DA protagonists have been missing... It is an awesome story how the Warden and Morrigan found each other... even further... how the Warden knocked down her walls with, to quote Morrigan, "interest and kindness," she had never known, its even more impressive that it happens in the aftermath of his most tragic circumstance of everyone in his safe world being massacred and losing his life of privilege all in one night, all the while having the enormous pressures of defeating the blight placed squarely upon his shoulders. Wynn wasn’t my favorite character, but when she apologizes and recognizes the love Morrigan and the Warden have found in the midst of chaos was a particularly touching line of dialogue, especially coming from Morrigan’s polar opposite...
Sappy crap rulz lol.
The origin stories brought a sense of ownership and personalisation to the DAO story. I still remember firing up Origins for the first time and thinking "damn this is awesome" as I explored Highever. The voice and fixed starting points of the sequels immediately detract from this and present a far more linear, detached player experience. How your character's relationship with Howe or Bhelen would be coloured for the entirety of the game depending on your origin is another good example of how those minor details can ripple out and alter the general story in an organic fashion.
The bolded bit has got me thinking on something - unlike most of the other DAO romances, with Morri/Warden pretty much everyone in camp is against it (and against Morrigan in particular). You have Wynne and Alistair frequently disapproving and making no secret of it, when HoF hits that crescendo when Morri is deeply conflicted about the whole thing and kind of shuts down, that's a pretty bad place for HoF to be in. Thankfully Al resisted to urge to go "told you!" in the epilogue. But I agree, that level of nuance, subtlety has been lost in their recent efforts.
Exacting standards? Now I'm scared.
Ah what the hell. Here, have at them.
https://www.fanficti...A-Fond-Farewell
Since you were talking about Wynne's reaction to Morrigan and the Warden's relationship... This had been on my mind for a while.
And now for one of those "Warden shows up in Skyhold" fics:
https://www.fanficti...autiful-Madness
Pretty nice, a few lines in the second one gave me a giggle - "I missed parts of you," very much a Morrigan-esque response. It's an interesting challenge- adapting the dialogue and interactions to account for the passage of time, there's definitely a risk of going too lovey-dovey, but at the same time, to posit that Morrigan's dialogue would remain as evasive as it once was wouldn't make sense either.
Ugh, you're seriously pushing me to dedicate some time to writing something, just my notes on the things I want to write about are already several thousand words long.
On the topic of Fergus, and this is all my headcanon, Warden Cousland has yet to gather the courage to take Kieran to Highever.
And the more he resembles Oren, the harder it gets.
He knows his brother doesn't hate him, but he also knows Fergus' wife and son died on his watch. He loves his brother far too much to risk make him even more resentful than he certainly already is.
My question is, has he even told Fergus that he has a son? Like maybe he told him in a letter, but he couldn't take him to visit when Kieran was younger because they were either in the Crossroads/other world, or in Orlais, and as time passes on and like you said Kieran comes to resemble Oren more the HoF suddenly has yet another reason to avoid going back to Highever. Whatever Fergus' reaction, it's certain to be conflicted. Like on the one hand another family member. But on the other hand it'd be like a ghost appearing in his life.
Or maybe he never told Fergus, like he never told anyone, because he's trying to keep Kieran safe. And now ten years have passed and he's afraid to tell Fergus because "Why didn't you tell me sooner?" as well as the obvious family resemblance.
I don't think so, Alistair seems to know about HoF having a son, even though you didn't ever need to discuss it with him in DAO, so either they made an assumption or implied that HoF mentioned it to Alistair at some point in the past (more likely). I'd like to think Fergus would be one of the few people HoF could trust implicitly and it seems like it could strain their relationship more if he were to hide something like that for 10 years.
There's also the issue of continuing the family name, I guess. Provided Fergus hasn't remarried, it's still on either him or HoF to carry on the family name, and since HoF (almost definitely) isn't technically married, Kieran can't inherit anything plus he's likely a mage. As I recall GWs give up their nobility, so it ultimately falls to the elder Fergus regardless. So, long story short, Fergus would likely, one way or another, have to get over it unless he wants his family name to die out completely. It's in everyone's best interests, including Fergus's desire to protect his brother, to remarry and in doing so provide a legitimate heir to the Cousland name as well as providing the means to shelter the whole family by extension. Although, I suppose if HoF's cure works out like Fiona's did, technically since she was shunned out of the order as she is no longer a GW in any way, shape or form, any rights she once held may transfer back to her? One could assume, given the way the epilogue is hinting that a similar fate may be on the cards for HoF. This is one of those situations where having the right people in places of power helps out, though just with how revered HoF can end up being in DAI, I doubt there would be many seeking to make problems for him.
It is an interesting thought, having the three of them reside in Highever for a time before Morri relocates to Orlais would serve as a nice ramp up from apostate swamp witch to arcane adviser. I like to headcanon it that Fergus first hears about Morrigan during DAO's victory feast and despite his surprise that his brother is all gaga over a swamp witch (especially when contrasted with the rest of the party's opinions on her), he understands why finding Morri is important to him. It also ties in nicely with the notion that Morrigan is completely different from any other pampered noble daughters that he'd encountered during his life in Highever, which better explains her allure in his eyes and ties in with a Morrigan/Leliana banter on that very issue.
But on the other hand, coming back to my earlier point, it's true that their relationship is more private and personal than the others in DAO, so you could probably make a case for HoF not telling anyone.
Though it is fun to imagine Morrigan interracting with her brother-in-law
Fergus probably remarried since he is Teyrn now he needs heirs, plus it's been 10 years of course he still feels for all his family but I doubt he's in some sort of depression or would resent the HoF in any way. I imagine he would be happy to know there's one more addition to his family since he also lost everyone.
Imagine how lonely Fergus must have felt knowing he only had his brother left.
In my headcanon I like to think that after their little time in the Crossroads there's where they went, stayed in Highever a little then moved on to Orlais, with the HoF still handling grey warden business of course (like going to Denerim meet Alistair as it was mentioned in DA2)
Agreed. If anything I'd think Fergus would be grateful to Morrigan for saving his brother's life.
I'm not so sure there was though if you look at things more closely, Morrigan just describes it as old magic rather than inherently "dark". Looking back how much of Morrigan's "sinister motives" come from her, as opposed to other party members. Like how you'll have the typical unthinking player - "oh Morrigan is so mean, she said that we should kill so and so" yet she never actually *does* any of these things. Meanwhile you've got Sten who murdered that family at the beginning of the game, an assassin, a spy, an abomination etc all casting aspersions against her. It's like a travelling party of people living in glass houses. If you strip away much of the bravado and perspectives projected onto her through the other companions, to me it again simply becomes a question of trust - the rest of the party don't trust her, but does the player?
As for Flemeth, well yeah, she does help the Warden, but when you hear Morrigan's version of things and join the dots, it's fairly clear that Flemeth deliberately set her up to be hated by the outside world - who would bother to take the time to break through those walls and sharp barbs, listen to her and help her break free of her mother? It's another reason why she was extremely lucky to chance upon HoF because nobody else in the DAO troupe was up for her bullshit - how better to craft the perfect future host body than to shape her in one's own image - the rest of the party view her as an apostate witch of the wilds, Flemeth's daughter who is up to no good, which quickly becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. This is likely the number one reason why the DR was never such a quandary for us because we'd already seen the other side to Morrigan. So, just as the Warden sees Morrigan in a different light to the rest of the party, could the same not be said of the DR, to some extent?
Sorry if I was unclear, just to clarify, the ‘Sinister’ comment was made in reference to Flemeth, not Morrigan, though it does taint (no pun intended), the perception of Morri. Jory and Daveth almost wet their armor when a ‘Witch of the Wilds’ shows up, and this is further reinforced when Morrigan brings them to Flemeth’s hut, looking for the treaties… a witch of the wilds is most notably associated with Flemeth... which is further reinforced when post Ostagar Alistar recognizes her as 'the' Flemeth... from the legends... which has its own implications on the ultimate goal of the DR.
More later.
Though it is fun to imagine Morrigan interracting with her brother-in-law
Fergus probably remarried since he is Teyrn now he needs heirs, plus it's been 10 years of course he still feels for all his family but I doubt he's in some sort of depression or would resent the HoF in any way. I imagine he would be happy to know there's one more addition to his family since he also lost everyone.
Imagine how lonely Fergus must have felt knowing he only had his brother left.
Heh... for whatever reason, now I'm imagining Fergus somehow winding up getting hitched to Yavana (Morrigan's sister from the comics) and imagining the kind of family reunion that would bring. Cousland boys just have a thing for witches, I guess, lol. Actually makes me wonder how Morrigan would react to Yavana (never will happen I guess since Yavana is seemingly dead, thanks Alistair) or whether there are any other daughters of Flemeth out there...
In my headcanon I like to think that after their little time in the Crossroads there's where they went, stayed in Highever a little then moved on to Orlais, with the HoF still handling grey warden business of course (like going to Denerim meet Alistair as it was mentioned in DA2)
That sounds about right- I figure post Witch Hunt, Morrigan had Kieran raised in the Crossroads as a means to mostly keep him safe- whether that be from Flemeth or templars or whoever. Its not like Morrigan was sheltering him in the Crossroads to the extent that Flemeth kept her isolated through her own adolescence. I mean, when you're a little kid you're probably not going to get much out of trotting the globe. At least at the age Kieran is in Inquisition (10 or so?) he'd probably start to appreciate and actually get something out of travelling to Orlais or Highever and so on.
But this post was mostly to test out properly multiquoting so I can get on with my mega post. 
Pillars of Eternity is not helping matters. And ironically, playing PoE has me starting up Baldur's Gate 2 to romance Viconia, Morrigan's predecessor in many ways.
Some more Morrigan art!
From C0oma
In retrospective, it was selfish to impose Urthemiel's soul on Kieran.
He really doesn't seem to be particularly fond of it.
Sorry if I was unclear, just to clarify, the ‘Sinister’ comment was made in reference to Flemeth, not Morrigan, though it does taint (no pun intended), the perception of Morri. Jory and Daveth almost wet their armor when a ‘Witch of the Wilds’ shows up, and this is further reinforced when Morrigan brings them to Flemeth’s hut, looking for the treaties… a witch of the wilds is most notably associated with Flemeth... which is further reinforced when post Ostagar Alistar recognizes her as 'the' Flemeth... from the legends... which has its own implications on the ultimate goal of the DR.
More later.
Oh fair enough, my mistake, I'll leave the text as-is since it's still relevant to the wider discussion.
Nice, but why do I feel like I've seen this somewhere before...
In retrospective, it was selfish to impose Urthemiel's soul on Kieran.
He really doesn't seem to be particularly fond of it.
I always got the impression (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) that Morrigan thought that the child would have just the one soul, rather than two, based on the two statements below (also partially fueled by her own possession theory at the time):
"Ignoring that after but one night it could barely be called a child... no, it will not be hurt. It will be changed."
"I will raise the child apart from the rest of society, and teach it to respect that from which it came. Beyond that you need know nothing else."
The second statement especially implies to me (or at least it did) that she thinks the child will have no knowledge of its "Old God" heritage and thus is presumably the sole occupant of the body. Urthemial as presented in DAI- the voice whispering to Kieran, seemingly does not fit the criteria of a soul/child needing to be taught. I don't really think Kieran's soul as a separate entity was supposed to be part of the deal, but others may have differing interpretations.
If she knew all the specifics, sure, but it seemed to me that Morrigan in DAO and WH knew a lot more than she does in DAI and part of DAI was her paying the price for her own past actions. For a minute in that Fade scene I thought they were going to turn the screw and have Flemeth take Kieran away from Morrigan (or something worse). She does express remorse over forcing that path on him in that moment, so it is worth considering how much that act weighed on all involved as a whole. The flipside of course is it does save Kieran's father's life and without the DR neither of them would exist. Kieran's thoughts on that would be very interesting, though he's likely too young to appreciate the magnitude of that. Better thought of as a blessing and a curse, I'd say.
As an aside, the DR was also the first real hint of the whole preservation angle, and in hindsight, I recall DR conversation/speculation was similarly coloured based on the outdated toolset character notes indicating that Morrigan wanted the OGB for power, which is disproved in later games.
It looks similar to the actual tarot card art for Morrigan from Inquisition, perhaps?Nice, but why do I feel like I've seen this somewhere before...
Yeah, looking at her talk during the DR in Origins and it seems like the thinking with the DR was that the soul of Urthemiel would be the only one present in Kieran, just that Kieran growing up wouldn't necessarily know that his own soul wasn't his own but that of Urthemiel. Or that was my take on it at least- that basically since you had the whole "One soul in one body" rule, the baby created from the DR maybe was without a soul (chalk that up to the magical aspect of the DR?) or that the soul of Urthemiel being drawn to her unborn child would kind of overwrite itself on top of whatever soul unborn Kieran had at the time the Archdemon was killed.The second statement especially implies to me (or at least it did) that she thinks the child will have no knowledge of its "Old God" heritage and thus is presumably the sole occupant of the body. Urthemial as presented in DAI- the voice whispering to Kieran, seemingly does not fit the criteria of a soul/child needing to be taught. I don't really think Kieran's soul as a separate entity was supposed to be part of the deal, but others may have differing interpretations.
Going with the running theme how Inquisition Morrigan is a bit of a screw up, I wonder if she maybe even botched the DR or didn't understand it fully. Thus instead of having Kieran smoothly grow up not even knowing he had an old god soul, Inquisition Kieran seems like he's hearing voices having nightmares. More like his own soul is kind of wrestling with the soul of Urthemiel, or the soul of Urthemiel cohabiting his body was bleeding through to his own normal soul, thus the weird dreams and so on.If she knew all the specifics, sure, but it seemed to me that Morrigan in DAO and WH knew a lot more than she does in DAI and part of DAI was her paying the price for her own past actions. For a minute in that Fade scene I thought they were going to turn the screw and have Flemeth take Kieran away from Morrigan (or something worse). She does express remorse over forcing that path on him in that moment, so it is worth considering how much that act weighed on all involved as a whole.
Hmmm... yes, the DR was the first time the whole preservation angle as brought up. But as I recall (and probably could go back and find in this thread) that was also the issue a lot of us had with that scene in terms of motivation. Morrigan just kind of wants the OGB for the sake of having it and nothing else? And that's the same rationale we're given at the Well of Sorrows. She just wants it for the sake of preserving it?As an aside, the DR was also the first real hint of the whole preservation angle, and in hindsight, I recall DR conversation/speculation was similarly coloured based on the outdated toolset character notes indicating that Morrigan wanted the OGB for power, which is disproved in later games.
Before DAI, I also assumed the OGB would only have Urthemiel's soul simply made pure again, if you will.
In fact, I daresay that was the original plan but once the team realized the task it would be to give this choice the treatment it deserved, they just went with two souls so they could give the old god's to a character that is guaranteed to exist without having to kill Kieran.
Still, looking at him now, it was selfish. It seems to give Kieran nightmares. Plus it can't be easy to know so many things he shouldn't and I can't even imagine the relationship he has with darkspawn.
Speaking of which, what the chances of this being Kieran?
http://dragonage.wik...e_Birth_of_Fear
Before DAI, I also assumed the OGB would only have Urthemiel's soul simply made pure again, if you will.
In fact, I daresay that was the original plan but once the team realized the task it would be to give this choice the treatment it deserved, they just went with two souls so they could give the old god's to a character that is guaranteed to exist without having to kill Kieran.
Still, looking at him now, it was selfish. It seems to give Kieran nightmares. Plus it can't be easy to know so many things he shouldn't and I can't even imagine the relationship he has with darkspawn.
Speaking of which, what the chances of this being Kieran?
I remember seeing that note in the fade, and thought "hey, this sounds a lot like something Kieran would say..." but the question is, does that note exist outside of a worldstate where the HoF romanced and followed Morrigan through the Eluvian? I think it doesn't strictly refer to Kieran, but I wouldn't be surprised if whoever of the writers wrote that was alluding to Kieran, since it seems to fit so well.
Yeah, doing the DR is essentially a selfish act, so it'd definitely weigh on the Warden's mind. Though I could see Morrigan telling Kieran that his birth saved his father's life. Seems like the kind of thing nicer Morrigan would say to make him feel better after the nightmares.
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