16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Why is it that Urthemiel is the only Old God with a place named after him?
And if Flemeth is really old, did she try to do the ritual during previous blights? Or does she want Urthemiel specifically? If so why? Does she seek beauty?

I think Master Shiori mentioned it above, but right near the Urthemiel Plateau is a point on the map ( a mountain?) called Arl Dumat. Orlais and the surrounding areas defintely seem pretty interesting to say the least.

Flemeth is just an enigma to me- she speaks in riddles and seemingly has some sort of ability to see into the future. Are Flemeth and Morrigan really working together somehow? Maybe- but I  kind of doubt it. I think its been mentioned somewhere in these forums the possibility that Flemeth might have had something to do with the first Grey Wardens- maybe she was a mage that helped come up with the Joining ritual? The fact that she shapeshifts into a high dragon is no coincedence, I don't think. Is she part of a dragon cult? Lots of questions surrounding Flemeth...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Too many questions that deserve good answers. If Morrigan did all this just to break the Chantry, I would be really dissapointed. Morrigan doesn't care about the masses who willingly enslave themselves. And sicn e the ritual was taught by Flemeth, I sincerily doubt she cares about the Chantry either. 
Breaking the Chantry might be a side effect of their actions, but I think / hope their goal is more important / ambitious than this.

I agree- whatever Morrigan is doing with the Old God Baby its something BIG. I don't think its some worldly thing like destroying the Chantry- maybe thats a side effect of it but  I doubt thats her primary purpose. What do we know about Morrigan? She's after power- certainly the OGB should help in that but what given Arl Foreshadow's notes about "offspring and the Fade," I'm thinking Morrigan's goals are aimed more towards something in the Fade or even the Black City. What exactly? I have no idea.

Master Shiori  wrote...
Morrigan herself tells you that Flemeth is basically a very ancient and powerful abomination (demon possessing a mage). It is possible that Flemeth knows about the demons original plan for the Old Gods and wants to continue it. What if Flemeth mislead Morrigan when she told her about the dark ritual?

She doesn't seem to be at all surprised that Morrigan discovered how she prolongs her life nor is she concerned about being slain. She even makes a remark that the Warden can "keep Morrigan for a while". If Flemeth's plan was for her to have the God Child for whatever reason, wouldn't she be concerned that Morrigan might do
something else if she breaks free? What if Morrigan thinks she's pursuing her own plan when, in reality, she is being manipulated by Flemeth?

It would interesting if Morrigan succeds in whatever she's doing only to discover that she's been lied to and the result is something entirely different from what she originaly planned.

Flemeth sure is the sneaky type and I wouldn't put it past her to try and trick Morrigan. I always find it a bit hard to beleive that Morrigan is so willing to accept Flemeth's magic and the DR when she just learned earlier that her mother was secretly planning on stealing her body. Something doesn't add up to me- if Morrigan was supposedly sent by Flemeth to do the DR, why would she follow through with it after learning how devious Flemeth was in planning on possessing her? I suppose she is just adapting the DR to suit her own needs? Or Morrigan isn't being truthful about Flemeth trying to possess her? I personally beleive Morrigan's take on Flemeth trying to possess her, but if I were Morrigan I'd be a bit weary of trusting some of Flemeth's magic, afterall Flemeth is some ancient abomination and not your ordinary apostate.

But I wouldn't at all be surprised if the DR somehow backfires on Morrigan- maybe not unlike how the Architect's plans backfired on him. And of course this would provide the perfect opportunity for the Warden to come in and save the day!

Modifié par Brockololly, 03 mai 2010 - 08:36 .

[Master Shiori]

The more I think about Flemeth the more quesions I have.



Morrigan claims Flemeth is a ancient abomination, but as far as we know from encounters with Connor and other possesed mages in the Circle Tower, once you slay the abomination both the possessed mage and the demon possessing him are destroyed.

How is it then that Flemeth's spirit remains after her body has been destroyed? The only logical conclusion is that Flemeth is akin to the Baroness in Awakening. She's been transformed into something that's neither a mortal nor a demon.



And finally if she has lived in the mortal world for such a long time, what does she really want there?

All the demons and abominations seem to have some plans once they gain foothold in the world of mortals: Baroness wanted to rule everything, Uldred wanted to turn all mages into abominations and build an army.

All Flemeth has done is sit in her hut in the middle of nowhere. She must have some grand plan in the works.



Also, Flemeth's raising of Morrigan was more akin to craftsman forging and shaping a tool then to mother raising a potential daughter. She perfected in Morrigan those skill that would make her useful to the Grey Wardens and allow her to seduce them and sire a child, yet left her completely lacking in every other field.



Whatever she planned it was important enough for Morrigan to continue pursuing even after she was free from Flemeth. Makes you wonder if Flemeth isn't laughing at the thought that even with her dead Morrigan is still trapped in her web...

[Terra_Ex]

Addai67 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

The one thing that worries me is if they make Morrigan into a Starcraft Kerrigan type villain- the old ally that ends up becoming the villain.

Apart from threads like this, though, I get the sense that most people consider Morrigan the villain. IOW, they are certain that she is up to no good with the god baby. Alistair certainly thinks so, and from what I've heard of Loghain so does he. That's one reason I'm hoping Morrigan and the god baby end up saving the world.

I attribute this to people simply not understanding her character, or simply not even attempting to. If you play through without at least befriending her then you don't really have a clear picture. To compound matters, the poorly executed DR sequence means most players are finishing DA:O and seeing her character in a negative light, which as I've said before is unfortunate. There are many layers to her character and its really only through multiple playthroughs from different perspectives that the truth can be discerned.

Brockololly wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

facialstrokage wrote...

She also says that "power has meaning." I think she's more interested than just survival.

She mostly seems interested in increasing her own power as a means of self-defense, however. In order to remain independent from forces that would rule over her, be it the Chantry or Flemeth. Her response to Alistair if he does the DR and asks if the child will show up some year and try to take power reassures me that she isn't out to rule the world. She says rather sarcastically, "Of that you have my word." As if the very idea seems ridiculous to her.

Yeah, as much as Morrigan is after power I don't believe she has any desire at all to obtain power as ameans to rule over people. Rather she seeks power as a means to protect her freedom and independence and to increase her odds at surviving in a world that has a decidedly negative outlook towards apostates. And that s not even considering the possibility of Morrigan maybe needing to defend herself from Flemeth possibly.

Now of course what Morrigan tells us in the DR scene has to be taken with a matter of trust; trusting that she will be true to her word and also trusting that her ritual goes according to plan and devoid of unforseen consequences. After all, the Architect arguably had good intentions in trying to stop the Blights and he ended up creating the Mother and starting the 5th Blight- oops. Could it be possible that in her search for power, Morrigan may have gotten in over her head, not unlike the Architect?

The one thing that worries me is if they make Morrigan into a Starcraft Kerrigan type villain- the old ally that ends up becoming the villain. Thats not to say that Bioware couldn't make a compelling story with something like that, but that just seems like it would be the very obvious and unsatisfactory route to take Morrigan. Maybe DA2 starts out with Morrigan portrayed as the enemy but once you track her down you see things from her POV? I just hope Bioware keeps things morally gray while not being too heavy with the ol' Plot Hammer.

If Bioware handled it correctly, making the PC choose between siding with Morrigan / some other faction / old allies with all choices being tinted with distinctive shades of grey could easily be one of the most powerful moments during the game, easily eclipsing the many faux-choices that were present in the first game. Now whether it should be the focal point of DA2 I'm not sure...

Brockololly wrote...
I agree- whatever Morrigan is doing with the Old God Baby its something BIG. I don't think its some worldly thing like destroying the Chantry- maybe thats a side effect of it but I doubt thats her primary purpose. What do we know about Morrigan? She's after power- certainly the OGB should help in that but what given Arl Foreshadow's notes about "offspring and the Fade," I'm thinking Morrigan's goals are aimed more towards something in the Fade or even the Black City. What exactly? I have no idea.

There's a few points of interest regarding this in the toolset if you check out the characters section:

"Morrigan lacks the will to care about most things enough to excite herself over them. Her primary concern is her survival. She has a difficult time relating to other people, and feels extremely vulnerable outside of the marsh. Her sense of humor is dark and twisted, and she finds the most morbid things amusing.

Her primary goal is to gain skills and knowledge and become a powerful sorceress in her own right. She believes that having a child with the PC's blood will give her access to this power."

That said, a LOT of whats in the toolset is either antiquated/changed during development or just flat out wrong, so I wouldn't read too much into it. (The very same file states that Morrigan is 30 when I'm fairly sure she's in her twenties.)

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 03 mai 2010 - 09:38 .

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...
How is it then that Flemeth's spirit remains after her body has been destroyed? The only logical conclusion is that Flemeth is akin to the Baroness in Awakening. She's been transformed into something that's neither a mortal nor a demon.

IMO, at the very least I think its safe to say that Flemeth isn't your typical abomination. There is likely alot more going on there that we don't know about.

Terra_Ex wrote...
If Bioware handled it correctly, making the PC choose between siding with Morrigan / some other faction /old allies with all choices being tinted with distinctive shades of grey could easily be one of the most powerful moments during the game, easily eclipsing the many faux-choices that were present in the first game. Now whether it should be the focal point of DA2 I'm not sure...

That would be a great sort of choice to make- do you side with Morrigan but risk cutting ties with the Wardens and certain companions in the process, but maybe gain new companions (sort of like losing Alistair for Loghain except on a bigger scale)? As for Morrigan being the focal point of DA2- well, I sure wouldn't mind it if that were the case, but I'm under no such illusion that thats a likely scenario. I'd like to believe that Morrigan hasa signifaicnt role to play in the story and I would love to have like a "hub" type quest ( like Redcliffe, Brecilian Forest, Sacred Ashes...) focusing on either searching for MOrrigan or dealing with the Old God Baby possibly. I 'd just hate to see MOrrigan's story kind of brushed aside or marginalized into a codex entry or something- just browsing through this thread there are lots of possible story avenues they could take it, we can only hope Gaider, the writers and Bioware sees it the same way.

Terra_Ex wrote...
There's a few points of interest regarding this in the toolset if you
check out the characters section:

I know the writers have gone on the record saying those descriptions are rather old and outdated and mainly for the VO but they still seem to hold some weight- obviously Alistair isn't 32 like the toolset says. Just look at most of the concept art and you can see that most of the characters went through some radical changes. But regarding Morrigan's age Gaider mentioned back in Feb 09 that Morrigan is supposed to be late twenties to early thirties which seems about right to me.

But its interesting that it seems at least even if the toolset info was old, even back then they basically had the notion that Morrigan wanted an Old God baby as a means to achieve power. What she really seeks to do with that power? Thats  the question.....

Modifié par Brockololly, 03 mai 2010 - 10:56 .

[brewmaster]

If Flemeth has saved the wardens from Ostagar only to perform the DR with Morrigan's help she must not kill the wardens when they choose to fight her.

She prefers being killed (but I'm not sure if she is really dead...). Flemeth should know that the Wardens must be able to slay a High Dragon - otherwise they are not able to kill an archdemon. Flemeth is clever enough to think about that! Consequently she sacrifices her life for the greater good or she doesn't die at all.

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

That would be a great sort of choice to make- do you side with Morrigan but risk cutting ties with the Wardens and certain companions in the process, but maybe gain new companions (sort of like losing Alistair for Loghain except on a bigger scale)? As for Morrigan being the focal point of DA2- well, I sure wouldn't mind it if that were the case, but I'm under no such illusion that thats a likely scenario. I'd like to believe that Morrigan hasa signifaicnt role to play in the story and I would love to have like a "hub" type quest ( like Redcliffe, Brecilian Forest, Sacred Ashes...) focusing on either searching for MOrrigan or dealing with the Old God Baby possibly. I 'd just hate to see MOrrigan's story kind of brushed aside or marginalized into a codex entry or something- just browsing through this thread there are lots of possible story avenues they could take it, we can only hope Gaider, the writers and Bioware sees it the same way.

I also don't believe that Morrigan and her child will be the main focus of DA2. However, she will likely play an important role and having the choice between supporting her or your allies would be quite interesting.

If however, Bioware decides to bring her back (and her epilogue in Origins hints at this being the case) then it's safe to say her role will be significant and not a mere codex entry. She is, after all, a poster girl for DA and one of the most popular characters.

[bl00dsh0t]

Way to go brock, it seems our 5000+ post morrigan group has made you into an encyclopedia of morrigan knowledge

Cunning collection of quotes btw. Gives a good example of how the ever vague mr. Gaider is trying to avoid saying anything at all. Lets face it whatever is coming in DAO2 is set in stone, huge changes from "warden is in DA2" to "warden not in da2" or vice versa are not going to happen at this point less than a year from release in february 2011. That sort of leaves us with the question what Gaider is trying to say (or avoid saying) which seems to be laying a groundwork for future DA titles where you do not play the warden, but in the end you would expect that DA2 is heavily warden based, either as the pc or as the father of the pc.

Still how gaider portrayed the "hero's son" angle it seems like it just occured to him as a good idea, not as something he has had on his mind alot:

"What if, for instance, you had a
romance with an NPC(just as a hypothetical example) and this was the
only way you could get a "child of the great hero" origin story in the
sequel?"

Or he is trying to hype what they have been doing all along?

Also the "main villain is different based on the first one's events" bit is in tune with the morrigan haters feelings on the matter. Hopefully he is just appeasing their concerns and not stating what will happen. It would be interesting though if how the pc reacted to certain situations (templar vs mages etc) or morrigans approval at the end of DAO affects whether or not she becomes the villain or an ally in the next game. For instance if her approval is low she never learns to appreciate other human beings and becomes more inclined to use the ogb for "evil" purposes or if her approval is high she develops as a person and chooses a different path? Also it could of course be flemeth that is the main antogonist, but somehow i do not see how she would get such motivation to get involved with society again. Her bitterness might explode into anger though after getting stabbed to death by some lovesick wardens

Long rant short: GAAAIIIDDEEEEEEEERRRRR stop gaidering xD

To finish on a positive note E3 is approaching pretty fast, only 6 weeks to go till we most likely get more information on DA2

[blademaster7]

A had a suspicion that approval might have to do something with Morrigan's future plans.... That was, of course, before I played Awakening to witness the fates of Wynne and Oghren.

They will probably just canonize the whole thing and give us a "default" Morrigan.

Hate to say it, but here it is.

Modifié par blademaster7, 04 mai 2010 - 01:34 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Hey Morrigan lovers! LadyDamodred wrote us a treat!

"    The only time he ever found the solitude he sought was at night, in the silences of his own mind. So he took to roaming, determined to find and hold onto that quiet when he could. First walking, then riding, as if movement and distance could help him hold onto the memories that faded a little more each day; memories that were all the more cherished because they faded.

            He turned and left his chambers silently, waving off the guards who would follow. It was a good night for a ride. Making his way to the stables, he saddled his horse and chose a new course through the streets of Denerim.

             Like all the other night before, the streets were quiet, the night air cool and still. The movement of the horse underneath him, the quiet sounds of the few people still up soothed him. He eventually came to the harbor and sat for awhile, looking out at the moon playing in the water.

             It came suddenly, a fierce burning that made him clutch his hand in shock. The plain gold band she had given looked no different. But as his hand grasped it, he felt the regret, the sorrow, the longing.

             It was over too soon, coming in a sudden burst and leaving just as quickly, but he knew. At that moment, she had felt what he had felt since the day she left. And within him, something let go; something that demanded he be strong, that he accept what she had chosen for them.

And he wept."

Source: http://community.liv...bad/750149.html

Reaction:

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 04 mai 2010 - 02:26 .

[bl00dsh0t]

I shall join you in sadness, quite frankly that was some good **** ^^

[LadyDamodred]

KoP is being modest and not revealing that the drabble was written for his character.  Without his prompting, I wouldn't have written it, though I did leave it neutral enough to appeal to most romances, I think.

[fenderstrat6]

me an my guitar gently weeps.

[Brockololly]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Hey Morrigan lovers! LadyDamodred wrote us a treat! [snip]

Reaction:

Baaah! My Cousland isn't giving up that easy! Nevah! He's going to get back on his horse and charge off in search of Morrigan!

Until Gaider and the Plot Hammer of Doom crush all of our hopes and dreams....

[Brockololly]

So this is admittedly not necessarily Morrigan related, but new DLC announcement tomorrow: "Darkspawn Chronicles" More info and confirmation by Priestly in this thread: http://social.biowar...index/2506990/1



Any thoughts on what the heck "Darkspawn Chronicles" could be? Seeing as its 400 microsoft points or $5, thats the same as Return to Ostagar. Maybe this is the the rumored Leliana DLC? After all isn't one of Leliana's endings that she goes down to the Deep Roads to research the darkspawn?

[blademaster7]

Meh...



Am I the only one who got sick of darkspawn? Give us something new please.



Leliana's involvement would probably be the same as Wynne in RTO. Pointless banter.



I'm just assuming.... hehe... I'm actually looking forward for it

[Master Shiori]

LadyDamodred wrote...



KoP is being modest and not revealing that the drabble was written for his character.  Without his prompting, I wouldn't have written it, though I did leave it neutral enough to appeal to most romances, I think.

Thank you writing that.

Was a nice touch for all us Morri fans.

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Any thoughts on what the heck "Darkspawn Chronicles" could be? Seeing as its 400 microsoft points or $5, thats the same as Return to Ostagar. Maybe this is the the rumored Leliana DLC? After all isn't one of Leliana's endings that she goes down to the Deep Roads to research the darkspawn?

Wasn't Leliana DLC supposed to be for Awakening and not Origins?

Would be weird if we got to play that in Origins since she only embarks on the adventure after the Battle of Denerim...

[LadyDamodred]

Master Shiori wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...



KoP is being modest and not revealing that the drabble was written for his character.  Without his prompting, I wouldn't have written it, though I did leave it neutral enough to appeal to most romances, I think.

Thank you writing that.

Was a nice touch for all us Morri fans.

Well, considering how Morrigan leaves you, I figure you poor bastards deserve something. 

[Brockololly]

blademaster7 wrote...

Meh...

Am I the only one who got sick of darkspawn? Give us something new please.

Leliana's involvement would probably be the same as Wynne in RTO. Pointless banter.

I'm just assuming.... hehe... I'm actually looking forward for it

I thought Awakening made the darkspawn a bit more interesting and it would be cool to learn more about their origins and maybe more about their relationship with the Old Gods. Truth of thematter is that outside of Shale, I haven't bothered with any of the DA DLC (besides Awakening). I just hope this "Darkspawn Chronicles" is something that moves the story forwards or sheds new light on something and isn't just a hack and slash / loot grab mission set before the end of Origins with nothing new to offer. Guess we'll find out tomorrow!

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

Meh...

Am I the only one who got sick of darkspawn? Give us something new please.

Leliana's involvement would probably be the same as Wynne in RTO. Pointless banter.

I'm just assuming.... hehe... I'm actually looking forward for it

I thought Awakening made the darkspawn a bit more interesting and it would be cool to learn more about their origins and maybe more about their relationship with the Old Gods. Truth of thematter is that outside of Shale, I haven't bothered with any of the DA DLC (besides Awakening). I just hope this "Darkspawn Chronicles" is something that moves the story forwards or sheds new light on something and isn't just a hack and slash / loot grab mission set before the end of Origins with nothing new to offer. Guess we'll find out tomorrow!

Considering that every DLC in Origins so far (with the exception of Shale) was hack and slash/grab the loot, I wouldn't expect much from this one.

Still, seems like Bioware learned their lesson from RtO fiasco and decided to keep the info to themselves until the DLC is truly ready.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 04 mai 2010 - 06:40 .

[Terra_Ex]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Hey Morrigan lovers! LadyDamodred wrote us a treat!

"    The only time he ever found the solitude he sought was at night, in the silences of his own mind. So he took to
roaming, determined to find and hold onto that quiet when he could. First walking, then riding, as if movement and distance could help him hold onto the memories that faded a little more each day; memories that were all the more cherished because they faded.

           
He turned and left his chambers silently, waving off the guards who would follow. It was a good night for a ride. Making his way to the stables, he saddled his horse and chose a new course through the streets of Denerim.

Like all the other night before, the streets were quiet, the night air cool and still. The movement of the
horse underneath him, the quiet sounds of the few people still up soothed him. He eventually came to the harbor and sat for awhile, looking out at the moon playing in the water.

It came suddenly, a fierce burning that made him clutch his hand in shock. The plain gold band she had given looked no different. But as his hand grasped it, he felt the regret, the sorrow, the longing.

            
It was over too soon, coming in a sudden burst and leaving just as quickly, but he knew. At that moment, she had felt what he had felt since the day she left. And within him, something let go; something that demanded he be strong, that he accept what she had chosen for them.

And he wept."

Source: http://community.liv...bad/750149.html

Reaction:
../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png

'Twas a fitting tribute,  very melancholic... Nicely written.
The warden is not alone in shedding a tear [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sad.png[/smilie].

Brockololly wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Hey
Morrigan lovers! LadyDamodred wrote us a treat! [snip]

Reaction:
../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png

Baaah! My Cousland isn't giving up that easy!
Nevah! He's going to get back on his horse and charge off in search of
Morrigan![smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/w00t.png[/smilie]


Until Gaider and the Plot Hammer of Doom crush all of our hopes and
dreams....[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]

Gaider's a dual wielder, Plot Hammer in one hand and Cutting Room Scissors in the other, truly a man to be feared.

Brockololly wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

Meh...

Am I the only one who got sick of darkspawn? Give us something new please.

Leliana's involvement would probably be the same as Wynne in RTO. Pointless banter.

I'm just assuming.... hehe... I'm actually looking forward for it

I thought Awakening made the darkspawn a bit more interesting and it would be cool to learn more about their origins and maybe more about their relationship with the Old Gods. Truth of thematter is that outside of Shale, I haven't bothered with any of the DA DLC (besides Awakening). I just hope this "Darkspawn Chronicles" is something that moves the story forwards or sheds new light on something and isn't just a hack and slash / loot grab mission set before the end of Origins with nothing new to offer. Guess we'll find out tomorrow!

Well, at 400 MS points, I pretty much know what I'll be expecting. As for the darkspawn being interesting... it doesn't really take much skill to create a semi-interesting adversary, the darkspawn are pretty stereotypical and the archdemon is simply the cookie cutter "random dragon that appears at the end of the game", which stopped impressing us several decades back. It's really not overly taxing to improve on that base. Maybe we'll end up playing as some darkspawn or something, I dunno...

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 04 mai 2010 - 07:06 .

[Master Shiori]

To be fair, Gaider said that the hardest part of his job is watching others cut out the stuff he wrote, so it's safe to say that removing all these Morrigan scenes wasn't his idea.



The plot hammer part is probably spot on, except it's a 2hander.

[bl00dsh0t]

Well some new DAO goodness is nice, also a new dlc hints at a likely patch for awakening and origins coming before it since thats what happened with RtO. Could make another awakening run worth it imo if i can finally do the personal quests for velana and sigrun that were bugged to hell in vanilla awakening as well as avoid unnecessary crashes that the last patch caused en masse.



Damn now I'm all excited for the dlc xD Got an exam next tuesday, this is not the damn time for this ****e... DA - my exam killer strikes again sigh