Do you think Morrigan could shapeshift while she was pregnant? Did poor, unborn Kieran turn into a chick or a cub?
What if she turned into the swarm of wasps?
I imagine that at first she could, but as the pregnancy proceeded she couldn't anymore. Which means the HoF can't even track a pregnant woman.
Or more likely that in the meantime there was a more important job to do at Amaranthine,anyhow if i understand is not so difficult to track a mage if you really want to at any cost,until this point of the franchise no mage seems to be able to remove the power from a phylactery and the warden for certain has got plenty of occasion to take drops of Morrigan's blood.
Or more likely that in the meantime there was a more important job to do at Amaranthine,anyhow if i understand is not so difficult to track a mage if you really want to at any cost,until this point of the franchise no mage seems to be able to remove the power from a phylactery and the warden for certain has got plenty of occasion to take drops of Morrigan's blood.
Do you think Morrigan could shapeshift while she was pregnant? Did poor, unborn Kieran turn into a chick or a cub?
What if she turned into the swarm of wasps?
Early on, yes. Later, probably not. We don't know if something could go wrong during a transformation after all. I'd assume the Insect Swarm form would be a no go. In fact, I don't even know how the insect swarm would work...
That would have gone over well.
"How did you find me?"
"Well, I took some of your blood and made a phyllactery..."
Warden is then killed forever.
Besides, she was what, six months pregnant at the time he's called to Amaranthine? You'd think that at any point before that she would have already been a bit at the slow side.
Well, I guess you go with the idea that Morrigan could sense whenever HoF gets close and relocates should that ever happen, although she doesn't comment on that so, I dunno, HoF is busy doing warden business and drinking himself into a stupor in his spare time.
Anyway, I meant to bring this up a while ago but circling back to an earlier discussion, we sort of reached an almost-consensus that we think HoF departed around the time that Morrigan gets into the Orlesian court, which if I recall was 3 years before DAI . Seems Gaider estimated that DAI plays out over 3-4 years (apparently not 100% confirmed to the best of my knowledge), which seems rather insane and raises questions about the competency of all involved if it took a organisation of the Inquisition's size all that time to put down old-man Corypheus. However, this would mean that HoF has been doing his quest for 6-7 years, which would equate to a greater span of time than he could have actually spent with Morri & Kieran after WH. Thoughts on that?
Early on, yes. Later, probably not. We don't know if something could go wrong during a transformation after all. I'd assume the Insect Swarm form would be a no go. In fact, I don't even know how the insect swarm would work...
Well, I guess you go with the idea that Morrigan could sense whenever HoF gets close and relocates should that ever happen, although she doesn't comment on that so, I dunno, HoF is busy doing warden business and drinking himself into a stupor in his spare time.
Anyway, I meant to bring this up a while ago but circling back to an earlier discussion, we sort of reached an almost-consensus that we think HoF departed around the time that Morrigan gets into the Orlesian court, which if I recall was 3 years before DAI . Seems Gaider estimated that DAI plays out over 3-4 years (apparently not 100% confirmed to the best of my knowledge), which seems rather insane and raises questions about the competency of all involved if it took a organisation of the Inquisition's size all that time to put down old-man Corypheus. However, this would mean that HoF has been doing his quest for 6-7 years, which would equate to a greater span of time than he could have actually spent with Morri & Kieran after WH. Thoughts on that?
Early on, yes. Later, probably not. We don't know if something could go wrong during a transformation after all. I'd assume the Insect Swarm form would be a no go. In fact, I don't even know how the insect swarm would work...
Well, I guess you go with the idea that Morrigan could sense whenever HoF gets close and relocates should that ever happen, although she doesn't comment on that so, I dunno, HoF is busy doing warden business and drinking himself into a stupor in his spare time.
Anyway, I meant to bring this up a while ago but circling back to an earlier discussion, we sort of reached an almost-consensus that we think HoF departed around the time that Morrigan gets into the Orlesian court, which if I recall was 3 years before DAI . Seems Gaider estimated that DAI plays out over 3-4 years (apparently not 100% confirmed to the best of my knowledge), which seems rather insane and raises questions about the competency of all involved if it took a organisation of the Inquisition's size all that time to put down old-man Corypheus. However, this would mean that HoF has been doing his quest for 6-7 years, which would equate to a greater span of time than he could have actually spent with Morri & Kieran after WH. Thoughts on that?
Consider me a complete and total dissenter to this supposed ‘consensus.’ It's absurd.
Maybe I am being too analytical about it, but it doesn’t make any sense to me to suspend disbelief to accept upto a near 5-7 year HoF disappearance. There would have to be constant visits and intimate contact for this to even begin to seem plausible, otherwise it’s just implying that the PC has to accept a ridiculous expectation of what their family unit can endure and that real contact is absolutely meaningless (because its convenient for the writers that the HoF is not around). The ring, regardless of its power, is not a smartphone, they aren't exchanging texts, racy pictures and there is no Skype.
Think about this realistically… (yes I know it’s a game lol) but seriously, think about people you haven’t had significant contact with for 5-7 years… and how detached they are from your thoughts and your life. Yet Morrigan still holds a candle for the Warden and Kieran misses him greatly???? Please. After 5-7 years of absence (depending on his age, is a majority of his lifetime), K would be more used to the HoF not being around rather than being around, and less prone to miss him... what else is new, he's always gone... who ****** cares? This simply doesn’t work.
Although I will gladly accept that the devs have certain unreasonable expectations of the PC with respect to the official time line. The timeline in Dragon Age has always been murky and devoid of any real logic. The stated timeline of DAO is 12 months. So basically, the Darkspawn horde, led by an Archdemon destroys Lothering… and then basically goes on vacation, doing little other than providing clumps of uninspired resistance to the Warden for 11+ months; waiting for him to enforce the treaties and be in a position to battle the blight. When he’s raised the army he needs to defeat them, they, on cue, end the vacation and attack Denerim.
And further to the point on the timeline… at this point, don’t even ask me when the events of DAA begin and end; I’ve heard everything from 6 months to 2 years.
DAI Morrigan states, “He’s been a good partner, and a good father…”
Supposed Consensus Morrigan states, "He’s an absentee father and an absentee partner… we’ve not seen him in upto 5-7 years and really, I couldn’t tell you where he is or what he’s doing, or if he’s married to someone else raising a new family in the hills of Highever… but I have this ring, so I at least know he’s still alive...,” her words trail off as if a change has formed in the recesses of her mind.
She thinks for a moment, “I misspoke about him being a good father. You, Inquisitor, have had more interaction with Kieran recently than the Hof has had in the last 5-7 years. He’s a horrible partner, and an even worse father. I hope his corpse lies under a pile of rocks.”
She removes a ring from her hand, and vehemently tosses it aside, apparently glad to be rid of the connection it once formed.
In closing, the idea that it takes 6-7 years to find a cure for the calling, which is 6-7 times longer than it takes to actually defeat a blight, just rings hollow.
Well I guess if you factor in all the traveling time between going to the Hinterlands, going back to Skyhold to tell Leliana do do another job, then right back to the Hinterlands and I could see how that takes four years to cover the events of the game. If that's really the case then I'd prefer my head canon that he left right before the start of Inquisition, which I think is somewhat supported by how Leliana says he recently stopped replying to her letters at the beginning of the game.
And if we're really meant to believe he's away from his family for six to seven years then I'm calling hax and shenanigans.
I dunno, the events of Inquisition just don't seem like they would take up that much time.
I can just imagine Morrigan changing her tune from "We are neither of us so weak we would die of loneliness" to "That man better be back NOW or I'm going after him myself."
Oh, you!
The Leliana line I don't recall, though if it was right at the start, that'll be why I've forgotten it and that could be taken to support the idea that HoF was still around up until that time. I too am reconsidering my headcanon on the issue now.
I do love reading your more impassioned posts, Ash 
let's get to it.
Consider me a complete and total dissenter to this supposed ‘consensus.’ It's absurd.
I don't think any of us who aren't in complete support of the notion that HoF and Morrigan were together all the time/some of the time during Morrigan's three years at court pre-DAI are doing so because we want that to be the case, but there issues that present themselves if they were. By all means, convince me that your scenario is viable and I'll happily accept it. For everything that follows, just remember I'm not *really* arguing against you, I just want an explanation that makes sense and isn't contradicted by anything - we both ultimately want the same thing, I'm sure.
Maybe I am being too analytical about it, but it doesn’t make any sense to me to suspend disbelief to accept upto a near 5-7 year HoF disappearance. There would have to be constant visits and intimate contact for this to even begin to seem plausible, otherwise it’s just implying that the PC has to accept a ridiculous expectation of what their family unit can endure and that real contact is absolutely meaningless (because its convenient for the writers that the HoF is not around). The ring, regardless of its power, is not a smartphone, they aren't exchanging texts, racy pictures and there is no Skype.
Think about this realistically… (yes I know it’s a game lol) but seriously, think about people you haven’t had significant contact with for 5-7 years… and how detached they are from your thoughts and your life. Yet Morrigan still holds a candle for the Warden and Kieran misses him greatly???? Please. After 5-7 years of absence (depending on his age, is a majority of his lifetime), K would be more used to the HoF not being around rather than being around, and less prone to miss him... what else is new, he's always gone... who ****** cares? This simply doesn’t work.
Too analytical? Look at this thread, does it look like the product of sane minds?
We both know what the real issue is so we needn't skirt around it; that nary a care was given to the implications having the previous player character in an absentee father role would raise when writing all HoFs offscreen. Because, apparently tackling mature subjects means repeatedly enacting the whole falling in love trope over and over and when an opportunity actually arises to build on a previous relationship, you write one party offscreen. Believe me, I get it. I comprehend the inadequacies of the situation fully. It wasn't me that imposed that separation due to narrative convenience, as you're well aware, I always argued for just the opposite due to how it stood to enhance the plot and character development of all involved.
I get that placating us Morri fans is likely bottom of the stack in terms of priorities but perhaps a mite more care was called for given their relationship has developed well beyond what was in DA:O and there is a child involved who is the lynchpin of some of Morri's development. In their haste to write all HoFs off screen, the implications of it perhaps weren't thought on. It is what it is though, BioWare persists in generating a bazillion new romances for each game but when the opportunity arises to actually explore the consequences of one in more depth comes up, they opt for the absentee father routine. A shame, I think it would have been really cool to see HoF with Morri & Kieran interact directly and as optional cross-game element that would have been pretty impressive. But that's impossible to do apparently, though I suspect if children entered the equation of a other DAO romances and was handled likewise, that fandom would feel slighted too. I will say that given how important Kieran is shown to be to Morrigan and HoF's place in their lives, this could probably have been addressed better. Though maybe we were just given enough rope to hang ourselves with and problems are being invented by us where none exist?
Let's rewind a little bit though, you've mentioned before and again here than you feel that HoF and Morrigan could be together in Orlais, something I'm not against but there are risk factors that, especially if Kieran is the OGB, need to be accounted for. The issues you raise about how being absent a father could negatively impact Kieran's relationship with his father are valid, however, these would probably be my main issues which relate to the practicality of the situation:
Granted there's nothing to outright prevent your scenario transpiring (to my knowledge) however most of the codex entries refer to Morrigan acting alone. iirc, even when HoF is Kieran's father, she says that most believe he's the kid of some far off noble, which maybe suggests that the nature of the relationship is not public knowledge. But maybe I'm overblowing the risks angle and over-thinking things, I dunno.
Although I will gladly accept that the devs have certain unreasonable expectations of the PC with respect to the official time line. The timeline in Dragon Age has always been murky and devoid of any real logic. The stated timeline of DAO is 12 months. So basically, the Darkspawn horde, led by an Archdemon destroys Lothering… and then basically goes on vacation, doing little other than providing clumps of uninspired resistance to the Warden for 11+ months; waiting for him to enforce the treaties and be in a position to battle the blight. When he’s raised the army he needs to defeat them, they, on cue, end the vacation and attack Denerim.
And further to the point on the timeline… at this point, don’t even ask me when the events of DAA begin and end; I’ve heard everything from 6 months to 2 years.
I'm not so sure the darkspawn were on vacation or partying it up, but the process of shifting a force of that size and ****** everyone's **** up takes time. Lack of visible progression of time was an issue, but the whole thing playing over a year isn't something I ever had an issue with.
DAI Morrigan states, “He’s been a good partner, and a good father…”
Supposed Consensus Morrigan states, "He’s an absentee father and an absentee partner… we’ve not seen him in upto 5-7 years and really, I couldn’t tell you where he is or what he’s doing, or if he’s married to someone else raising a new family in the hills of Highever… but I have this ring, so I at least know he’s still alive...,” her words trail off as if a change has formed in the recesses of her mind.
She thinks for a moment, “I misspoke about him being a good father. You, Inquisitor, have had more interaction with Kieran recently than the Hof has had in the last 5-7 years. He’s a horrible partner, and an even worse father. I hope his corpse lies under a pile of rocks.”
She removes a ring from her hand, and vehemently tosses it aside, apparently glad to be rid of the connection it once formed.
This was a nice touch
In closing, the idea that it takes 6-7 years to find a cure for the calling, which is 6-7 times longer than it takes to actually defeat a blight, just rings hollow.
Aye, even in the ideal scenario that HoF left at the start of DAI, you'd still be looking at between 3-4 years if Gaider's guesstimate becomes set in stone. HoFs old skills do seem to have left him based on that rate of progression. And of course, just like before with WH, as you've bemoaned before, it ends the game on that "Morrigan disappeared" note, so you have another couple of years in real world time unable to settle on a headcanon because it'll be overwritten once more.
Just as a note on the crossroads being inhospitable to anyone other than elves. Does it say the "other worlds" they lead to are like that? Because Morrigan's dialogues suggest that they weren't living in the crossroads themselves. She tells warden Alastair they were in another world, and when showing the Inq the crossroads she mentions no the mirrors lead to other places right after mentioning they provided sanctuary and right before mentioning the respite she had with the man she loved. (The nitpicker in me hates that past tense use there. "What do you mean 'loved'? You do still love him right?
If the HoF is gone for more than five years, which I hate just so we're clear on that, then I can't help but start planning a fix where the HoF disappears like Maric and the Kieran goes to find him a la Alistair in Silent Grove. It would be especially amusing if it's another daughter of Flemeth that has captured him. Most messed up extended family ever.
I don't know about the connected worlds, maybe someone else can comment. But even if they are fair game, Ash is going to come back with the comment Morrigan makes about not wanting to raise her son in a swamp, bereft of human contact, which is a valid rebuttal. Even if a connected world is a happy, nice place, unless it is inhabited by others, it limits how long they can remain in the connected world simply because of that expressed desire. And if that is the *only* time they spent together, then yeah, that's pretty crappy.
The tense of that line also bothered me, you often bring up the exact same things I've thought on. Or she is as pissed off as and you and Ash think she is about the amount of time HoF has been on his quest.
If the HoF is gone for more than five years, which I hate just so we're clear on that, then I can't help but start planning a fix where the HoF disappears like Maric and the Kieran goes to find him a la Alistair in Silent Grove. It would be especially amusing if it's another daughter of Flemeth that has captured him. Most messed up extended family ever.
You've now given BioWare the perfect means to have HoF & Kieran not be present in a future game 
I don't know about the connected worlds, maybe someone else can comment. But even if they are fair game, Ash is going to come back with the comment Morrigan makes about not wanting to raise her son in a swamp, bereft of human contact, which is a valid rebuttal. Even if a connected world is a happy, nice place, unless it is inhabited by others, it limits how long they can remain in the connected world simply because of that expressed desire. And if that is the *only* time they spent together, then yeah, that's pretty crappy.
The tense of that line also bothered me, you often bring up the exact same things I've thought on. Or she is as pissed off as and you and Ash think she is about the amount of time HoF has been on his quest.
You've now given BioWare the perfect means to have HoF & Kieran not be present in a future game
I think the tense of the line is meant to read as "I am talking of a past event so I am using past tense" without considering us lunatics on this thread overanalyzing things. It's like Morri fans have some kind of hive mind thing going on.
And if they do use my idea for keeping HoF away then it would suck as a fan, but as the person whose idea it was and who now has dated proof that it was my idea I can only say *jingle jingle* royalties buddies.
I think the tense of the line is meant to read as "I am talking of a past event so I am using past tense" without considering us lunatics on this thread overanalyzing things. It's like Morri fans have some kind of hive mind thing going on.
And if they do use my idea for keeping HoF away then it would suck as a fan, but as the person whose idea it was and who now has dated proof that it was my idea I can only say *jingle jingle* royalties buddies.
First time I heard the line I freaked out too, didn't want to say anything but it seems to be normal.
Catching up with the rest of the posts.
Morrigan was/is an important variable in Flemeth's/Mythal's grand plan (whatever it may be), so it wouldn't be shocking if the ring's original purpose was generally unchanged. Flemeth needed to keep an eye on Morrigan. She needed to be sure that her key to the Old God soul wasn't going to fall in love with some handsome stranger and ride off into the sunset with him before the Blight hit.
So... perhaps Flemeth not only used the ring to keep track of Morrigan, but also to gauge her daughter's emotions. We can safely assume that Morrigan is somewhat sexually experienced, but she's not experienced with things like love and friendship. If some dashing lad came along one day and Morrigan fancied him, she could certainly have her fun with him, but if she felt something more, Flemeth could catch on immediately thanks to the ring and deal with the situation accordingly.
This makes sense in my head. Flemeth bars her daughter from relationships of any kind in order to protect her OGB bearer. This could also bring in your idea about the ring acting as a receiver. Flemeth's beliefs and influence could be slowly fed to Morrigan without her even noticing. Perhaps this is how Flemeth got Morrigan to initially agree to carry out her plan. Who knows?
Plus you have the Possession Robes, and if Flemeth intended to slip Morrigan on like a new dress... slowly influencing her mind would probably be a good way to do it.
On another note... I need World of Thedas Volume 2 in my life ASAP.
Indeed, that all seems to fit very well, that is definitely the attitude and worldview Flemeth encouraged with her with regards to sex and love. Toying with and controlling Morrigan's emotions does seem like the sort of underhanded thing Flemeth might do in order to shape her on a very finite level into what she desires. It ties in with how Flemeth raised her and would allow her ample time to intercede should Morrigan develop any fool notions. There's notes in the toolset about a line from Morri alluding to how Flemeth preys on men who nobody will miss, so obviously anyone out to disrupt her plans for Morrigan would be fair game. Intriguing to think on the ring's original purpose at the very least (there's a tendency once it's given as a gift to forget about any original purpose it may have held) and the two way nature of it certainly feeds into both our arguments on the matter quite well.
Yeah, then you have the Robes of Possession too. I wonder if that's kind of Flemeth's whole shtick with possessing her daughters. Kind of getting back to how Flemeth tells Morrigan in Inquisition how a soul is not forced on the unwilling and all that- well, what if part of Flemeth's deal is sapping the willpower of her daughters unknowingly over time via magical trinkets like the ring or the robes of possession? Or you have some Witches of the Wilds like Yavana who seem all gung-ho on the idea of accepting whatever "gift" Flemeth may bestow on her daughters.
The little tidbit in the World of Thedas Volume 2 on there being other Witches of the Wilds reported in the Antiva (probably Yavana), the Nahashin Marshes and the Planasene Forest of Nevarra almost has me wondering now if they don't even go after some pseudo Throne of Bhaal style Bhaalspawn war amongst Flemeth's daughters post Inquisition in trying to take up her Mythal power, or if that godhood got passed to Morrigan, if the other daughters of Flemeth maybe wouldn't come to try and take that.
Yeah, I recall we somehow got onto a similar discussion in the past of some grand witch insurrection, I want to say there was some trailer or something that had a bunch of copy/pasted Morrigan models in it that primarilly fueled that... That sort of setup would be intriguing for a future game, at least on the surface level. I think Zevran's banters mention this in Origins, the Tellari swamps or something iirc.
I'll keep refraining from going into Flemeth for the moment, and instead touch on something that might have been - putting aside DA2s Flemeth resurrection/soul splitting thing and bouncing off the Corypheus method of revival, what of the idea that when Flemeth dies the spirit jumps to the nearest daughter, with a small army of Flemeth's in training out there. Was that ever on the table/discussed as maybe the original plan?
As for the robes of possession- I never allowed Morrigan to wear them in my first play through despite the superior stats, damn things just had potential gotcha written all over them! I was suspicious they were going to screw me over in the ending or something. As it happens, we did screwed over, but in a different way. Nope, Morri, you're staying safe and keeping the crappy robes, although I have wondered if the robes were meant for Flemeth herself as part of some ritual or trick ala Planescape Torment's reveal.
No, not that I can see. Like I said, everything even remotely starting to touch on in game material gets real vague, real quick. Just the way the book is written as a kind of in game history often has it where the way these character histories are written is done so that a healthy amount of uncertainty and doubt is infused into them.
Just paraphrasing but basically, the entry on Morrigan's involvement in Origins even makes it seem uncertain how long she was with the HoF during Origins and that the only thing that is sure is that if she was with the HoF when the Archdemon was slain, she left soon thereafter.
The actual post Witch Hunt Orlais material is left pretty vague, basically saying that what happened to Morrigan after the Blight was uncertain but that for a number of years there were sightings of a dark haired woman matching her description in the Arbor Wilds and Val Royeaux, with Morrigan finally being formally presented to the Orlesian Court just as tensions with the mages were rising (like around the time Anders blew up the Chantry).
I understand, that makes sense.
Yeah, reading that bit I was reminded of that Penny Arcade comic they had before Origins came out with Morrigan and Flemeth.
Hah, I remember that, that's going back some years now, certainly a little nod to whole possession angle there.
I don't think it was a poisoned feather necessarily, just kind of a crappy end for a little kid who kept it as a good luck charm. Here is the passage, starting with a report from a Lothering villager:
"I saw them together in Lothering, just before the village evacuated," said one resident. "Two Grey Wardens, and with them a dark haired witch. All I remember is she didn't look happy to be traveling with them, like she'd been forced into it. I heard her complaining, needling one of the Wardens with her: a fresh-faced fellow who looked none too happy himself. I remember it because my daughter ran up to her, said the feathers she wore on the shoulders of her robe were pretty. The witch looked surprised and asked why my daughter was still in Lothering, and my daughter said because we were still packing our wagon.
"She smiled at her and said, ''Tis a long and dangerous journey that awaits you, young one. These lands grow dark, and will become darker yet in the days to come.' She plucked one of them feathers and gave it to my daughter. I remember it all, because my girl held onto that feather for years after. Called it her good luck charm, said it had magic in it. Right up until the plague."
Now you've explained, it's clearer, I was assuming it was a young Morrigan, maybe going against Flemeth's teachings for the first time, not Morrigan with HoF and Alistair. that's a nice little piece although I do kind of like where my poisoned feather idea headed. The idea of a younger Morrigan accidentally killing a kid through an act of kindness seems like something Flemeth might orchestrate to keep her on a set path. Certainly seems in line with the other hardships she endured.
Yeah, that's sort of what they did with the Silent Grove comic with Yavana which I actually thought was kind of interesting since it seemingly expanded on the goals of Flemeth and maybe Morrigan misunderstanding Flemeth. Using some of these other Witches of the Wild would keep things fresh for the player and new PC, since you at least could avoid some of the disconnect between the player's knowledge and PC's knowledge if they had the new Witch of the Wilds impart some new bits of knowledge into the world.
Sure, but that's all in the ancillary material, the majority of people are never gonna see that. Hell, I haven't seen it in its entirety. Would also be interesting to see how many of the others know of Morrigan in particular.
As for the image, I'll wait till I see it before any further guesswork.
And continued since you apparently can only quote so much...
A little. There is a bit from Genitivi on the lands outside of Thedas. To the West they mention some port city on the Volca Sea that used to get trade from some other group of people that dried up. Until recently when those people started coming again from across the sea telling tales of some cataclysm in their homeland west. Something to that effect, just going from memory of what I read today.
Yeah, on one hand I dug the concept art looks for her. Hell, BioWare is using one as a T-shirt in their store.
Then again, I look at most of those concept designs for Morrigan in Inquisition and I have two issues with them. They all look like super heavy duty cold weather gear, which might be fine for Skyhold since it looks sort of chilly there but other than that, Morrigan is primarily in the Arbor Wilds, which looks like some kind of hot and humid jungle. Having her trudge around in some heavy duty parka gear would have been kind of goofy. Issue two with most of those concept art designs is that they look almost like they were designed like so many other NPCs to completely hide her hair, since Frostbite or Inquisition completely failed at any kind of longer hair. Just look at Leliana being forced into a hood for the whole game or why all of a sudden so many females have either shaved heads or their hair glued down. So in that sense, I appreciate that they tried with Morrigan's hair in Inquisition- barring the times it clips through her face.
Yep, quote limits suck (for us).
As for the cold weather attire, agreed, hence why I said I'd prefer the sacred ashes look (similar but different) with a bit of an Orlesian slant to it, just to help further the theme that she's picking up skills, different taste, etc as she goes while striking a good balance between the old and the new.
The hair is tricky to do convincingly and once it starts moving you either have clipping or framerate issues if you're bringing physics into the equation, so I'm sympathetic toward the issue on that front and I only noticed it clip through her cheek maybe once (although it was very blatant in that scene).
As for the concepts themselves, the one above I don't like too much, it doesn't really scream Morrigan to me and in all honesty, at passing glance I wouldn't recognise it as her. It has more of a... hermit-esque vibe to it than anything else. This could just be the style of the picture and pose though.The one on the t-shirt, which may be the same design, looks fine. Maybe the lack of anything on her neck is what's killing it for me, she usually wears something striking and extravagant yet here there's nothing. As a side note, it could just be the scanned image quality, but Kieran looks a *lot* more like Morrigan there.
The one below seems much more fitting to her character, boots, belts, pouches & neckware, also sort of reminds me of Triss from Witcher 2. I think there's a version without the skull as well. Maybe just seeing Morri in some winter wear is sufficiently different for me to prefer it, though as you say probably not appropriate for the Arbor wilds. Morrigan also mentions Oghren stealing a scarf from her as I recall. I'd rather not know what ultimately became of it.
Those dragon blood theories I do not recall. Sounds interesting though. Almost reminds me of Melisandre from A Song of Ice and Fire and how she supposedly does not feel the cold.
Briefly from memory, it centered on Morrigan and Flemeth as Dragon Cultists, like Kolgrim in DAO, in part due to Morrigan's displayed reverence for dragons if you drink the blood, I'm not so sure it was a theory so much as a remark we might have made and batted around at some point in the past. There was also a quote you sourced in this very thread from Gaider which was either a cut banter or an idea for a banter where Alistair remarked on Morrigan's lack of apparel and she said that she doesn't feel the cold as he does. Seems it was a Gaider signature at one time, probably trolling us.
Alistair: "Isn't it a bit cold to dress like that in the Wilds?"
Morrigan: "I do not feel the temperature as you do, if you must know."
Alistair: "I'll wager you don't feel a great many things as we do."
Of course, the dragon blood angle has quite a different possible outcome now.
I think the tense of the line is meant to read as "I am talking of a past event so I am using past tense" without considering us lunatics on this thread overanalyzing things. It's like Morri fans have some kind of hive mind thing going on.
lol, that's the explanation I settled on too! I elected not to bring it up in case it made me look even crazier than I already appear!
The Morri hive mind is a real thing.
Seems Gaider estimated that DAI plays out over 3-4 years (apparently not 100% confirmed to the best of my knowledge), which seems rather insane and raises questions about the competency of all involved if it took a organisation of the Inquisition's size all that time to put down old-man Corypheus.
Judging by the main quests, side quests and war table missions, Corypheus managed, in less than ten years, have armies capable of taking on both Tevinter and Nevarran forces at once and winning; saboteurs and assassins in the Free Marchs, Ferelden, Orlais; allies in the Magisterium; Templars, Circle Mages and Grey Wardens serving him, etc.
Accomplishing all of that in ten years already stretchs one's suspension of disbelief. Three years for the Inquisition to rise from nothing to dismantling all of that is actually a very short time.
Judging by the main quests, side quests and war table missions, Corypheus managed, in less than ten years, have armies capable of taking on both Tevinter and Nevarran forces at once and winning; saboteurs and assassins in the Free Marchs, Ferelden, Orlais; allies in the Magisterium; Templars, Circle Mages and Grey Wardens serving him, etc.
Accomplishing all of that in ten years already stretchs one's suspension of disbelief. Three years for the Inquisition to rise from nothing to dismantling all of that is actually a very short time.
I question how much of that comes across through the critical path of the game though. As with DAO and DA2, the passage of time is not conveyed to the player particularly effectively. If the war table wasn't purely text based and actually had some dynamic elements to it with each faction vying for control, the sense of scale would be easier to believe. The War Table missions tell, they do not show. Since this doesn't come across in the game proper, it's one of the primary reasons that timescale feels out of kilter with the flow of the game. Your party is just visiting a few important people and doing a few mainline quests, in gameplay terms it's not a radical departure from what HoF did in DAO. The apparent threat Corypheus's army poses similarly is not sufficiently impressed upon the player in real terms (the war table telling me Cory is metaphorically twirling his mustache via his agents' machinations is nice and all, but ultimately means very little), after Haven, he needed another show of force, as it stands, he loses time and again and thus feels incompetent while also lacking the manpower and strength to meet the Inquisition head on. The game's execution and conveyance/presentation of information relating to scale and the passage of time is lacking.
lol, that's the explanation I settled on too! I elected not to bring it up in case it made me look even crazier than I already appear!
The Morri hive mind is a real thing.
I have no shame, and people in my life know I'm crazy already so this changes nothing for me.
We're like really inefficient Borg. Otherwise the Morri fandom would be larger.
"You will be assimilated."
"No."
"Oh, okay then, that's cool, I respect your choices man."
Popping in to say that I think its crazy to think Inquisition took 3 to 4 years. Hell, it seems like the Inquisitor did that stuff in a long weekend compared to Origins. The Hero of Ferelden stops a Blight in about a year and the Inquisitor has to take close to 4 years to stop a bumbling Scooby Doo villain who simply makes screw up after screw up?Anyway, I thought I had read somewhere that it took about 1 to 1.5 years from beginning to end, which makes more sense to me. Just the lack of big events in Inquisition make it seem silly that it took that long. At least the main story beats never gave me any grand impression of the passage of time. So I guess it just took years to grind out all those fetch quests, which is a very depressing thought.
I completely agree with everyone saying DAI doesn't feel like it takes place over the course of 3-4 years. That just seems outrageous. It felt more like 2 years.
I went back for a second playthrough, and I found I just didn't have the patience for a lot of the side quests and the War Table stuff... so I just basically wanted to play the vanilla game, and it seemed even shorter than my initial playthrough. Maybe 1.5 years. Of course, it was also on my second playthrough that I started finding out what my issues with the game were.
Anyway, back on topic.....
I think the tense of the line is meant to read as "I am talking of a past event so I am using past tense" without considering us lunatics on this thread overanalyzing things. It's like Morri fans have some kind of hive mind thing going on.
And if they do use my idea for keeping HoF away then it would suck as a fan, but as the person whose idea it was and who now has dated proof that it was my idea I can only say *jingle jingle* royalties buddies.
And here I thought I was the only one irked by the phrasing.
"the man I loved."
"Oh, that's so sweet. She's talking about.... wait 'loved'? No."
I've convinced myself that she was just telling it as a recollection of events.
Still on my first playthrough of DA:I (not found the game as engaging hence the very slow playthrough since November - ended up looking up plot spoilers just to know how the game plays out)
Got to What Pride has Wrought yesterday and knew the big decision that had to be made at the Well.
Made Morrigan take the dip - figured it may have more story relevance in the future even though it will probably be handwaved in the future (like taking Old God souls from bodies like taking candy from a baby)
and even as my favourite Bioware LI (well a coin flip with Bastila) thought that it was a fitting story development for Morrigan to drink - not saying it was some sort of deserved comeuppance or hubris but seemed to tie in better for me
I completely agree with everyone saying DAI doesn't feel like it takes place over the course of 3-4 years. That just seems outrageous. It felt more like 2 years.
I went back for a second playthrough, and I found I just didn't have the patience for a lot of the side quests and the War Table stuff... so I just basically wanted to play the vanilla game, and it seemed even shorter than my initial playthrough. Maybe 1.5 years. Of course, it was also on my second playthrough that I started finding out what my issues with the game were.
Anyway, back on topic.....
And here I thought I was the only one irked by the phrasing.
"the man I loved."
"Oh, that's so sweet. She's talking about.... wait 'loved'? No."
I've convinced myself that she was just telling it as a recollection of events.
I also believe that most likely it took a time of 1-1.5 years, 2 tops for the inquisition and the story. Not only because of all the things the inquisition had to do but also because Corypheus had to start all over again with his plans and build his army since the inquisitor messed it up at the last moment at the temple of sacred ashes. I'm sure it's different for the mages in some cases but since I NEVER side with the templars (in all the three games) it does seems logical to me that it must have taken also a lot of time to Corypheus to gather the red lyrium, the templars and the time it took for them to mutate, ran sacking ancient elven ruins, the dealings with the Venatori and attacking the Wardens from within and all that can reasonably happen in the span of 1-2 years, is not as if he wants to waste much time in order to cross into the Fade.
I also found that strange, how Morrigan said "a respite with the man she loved" but then again...she is still in love with him, she still wants to see him again and join him so, she was just talking in the past tense and likely just wanted to keep her feelings to herself. There's no reason for Morrigan to tell the Inquisitor "with the man I love" since it's not much of the Inquisitor's business from Morrigan's perspective, besides, she is not someone who express her emotions to anyone so easily, only need to know stuff and when she starts saying too much she returns back on track like when she said "honeyed words".
One of the glitches that I can't seem to bypass is the note from the HoF to the Inquistor after Morrigan helped to make contact with him at the operations table. The Warden is asking the Inquisitor to look after his family and mentions a private letter just for Morrigan, in that case, I see how the Inquisitor can look after Morrigan and hesitates when Morrigan wants to drink from the WoS and how he goes and look for Keiran in the Fade. The Inquisitor is doing what he was asked by the Warden wich leads into trusting Morrigan that she won't turn on them when talking with Vivienne.
So now that we've established that line caused us all to at least raise an eyebrow, I'm picturing the entire Morri-fandom's worldwide reaction to the "man I loved" line went something like this:
But yeah, she's just referring to the period of time spent with him.
I also found that strange, how Morrigan said "a respite with the man she loved" but then again...she is still in love with him, she still wants to see him again and join him so, she was just talking in the past tense and likely just wanted to keep her feelings to herself. There's no reason for Morrigan to tell the Inquisitor "with the man I love" since it's not much of the Inquisitor's business from Morrigan's perspective, besides, she is not someone who express her emotions to anyone so easily, only need to know stuff and when she starts saying too much she returns back on track like when she said "honeyed words".
One of the glitches that I can't seem to bypass is the note from the HoF to the Inquistor after Morrigan helped to make contact with him at the operations table. The Warden is asking the Inquisitor to look after his family and mentions a private letter just for Morrigan, in that case, I see how the Inquisitor can look after Morrigan and hesitates when Morrigan wants to drink from the WoS and how he goes and look for Keiran in the Fade. The Inquisitor is doing what he was asked by the Warden wich leads into trusting Morrigan that she won't turn on them when talking with Vivienne.
Exactly. Morrigan isn't the type to go shouting something from the rooftops. When she trails off occasionally, I consider her to be getting lost in thought and then realizing she's letting on more than she wants to.
I let her drink on my first run. I remember thinking "Something isn't right here. It's a bit unlike Morrigan to be so.... possessive. But if she wants it that badly, she can have it". When I found out that she was tied to Flemeth by doing so, I think I actually laughed a little (I'm a bad person, I know). I found it a bit humourous that after all of this, and all of the running, she gets tied to the one person she absolutely hates.
Second time I had the inquisitor drink. I think Mythal was messing with Morrigan's mind, so my Inquisitor was trying to protect her and Kieran and fulfill the silent promise he'd made with the HoF through the letter.
After doing both, as much as I hate the execution, I think it is more fitting to Morrigan's arc if she does drink from the Well.
So now that we've established that line caused us all to at least raise an eyebrow, I'm picturing the entire Morri-fandom's worldwide reaction to the "man I loved" line went something like this:
But yeah, she's just referring to the period of time spent with him.
And now that that crisis has been dealt with..
So now that we've established that line caused us all to at least raise an eyebrow, I'm picturing the entire Morri-fandom's worldwide reaction to the "man I loved" line went something like this:
But yeah, she's just referring to the period of time spent with him.
I won't argue with that at all hehe, I was like..."Pero que ching....?! loved?!" yeah...spanish is my first language hehe.
Exactly. Morrigan isn't the type to go shouting something from the rooftops. When she trails off occasionally, I consider her to be getting lost in thought and then realizing she's letting on more than she wants to.
I let her drink on my first run. I remember thinking "Something isn't right here. It's a bit unlike Morrigan to be so.... possessive. But if she wants it that badly, she can have it". When I found out that she was tied to Flemeth by doing so, I think I actually laughed a little (I'm a bad person, I know). I found it a bit humourous that after all of this, and all of the running, she gets tied to the one person she absolutely hates.
Second time I had the inquisitor drink. I think Mythal was messing with Morrigan's mind, so my Inquisitor was trying to protect her and Kieran and fulfill the silent promise he'd made with the HoF through the letter.
After doing both, as much as I hate the execution, I think it is more fitting to Morrigan's arc if she does drink from the Well.
And now that that crisis has been dealt with..
Hehe I watched THAT episode yesterday.
Fortunately, that decision of Morrigan drinking from the WoS can be changed at the Keep and edit the world state, I've been letting Morrigan drink from the Well in my last playthroughs, so I think in my next playthrough I'm gonna let the Inquisitor drink from the Well as part to keep her safe from Flemeth or even Solas and to keep her from getting wounded while fighting the Dragon at the end also to check Morrigan's reaction.
Ok Morri thread, I forwarded this to Brock last night but forgot to bring it up here, it seems an interview with Gaider and co is coming up, featuring some info on cut content and presumably other stuff.
http://forum.bioware...iter-interview/
Of particular note to us:
#Biowarechat @dragonage origins originally was intended to be told retrospectively....by an old woman...MORRIGAN! @davidgaider
I find this particularly interesting in light of the idea that I floated a few months back that Morrigan would have a bookend role at the end of the series and I'm guessing this will be adapted to Morrigan telling the story of the whole Dragon Age at the tail end of the series. t supports the notion that Morrigan is essentially one of if not the most important character in the series, the idea that she is important to the DA world has been suggested by the devs on more than one occasion. It's not all sunshine and rainbows however, there are quite a few way further Morrigan reappearances could go wrong, but her final appearance, if done well and if sufficiently reactive to past events could be quite interesting. We'll undoubtedly get into more detail when the full interview appears, but any initial thoughts on this?
If thats how it will turn out in the end I'm a lot less nervous about my Well of Sorrows decision.
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