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[Ash Wind]

So now that we've established that line caused us all to at least raise an eyebrow, I'm picturing the entire Morri-fandom's worldwide reaction to the "man I loved" line went something like this: 

 

But yeah, she's just referring to the period of time spent with him.

 

Definitely caused me to raise an eyebrow. I'm not English major, not sure that the past tense is correctly used to denote a past event or if it was a writing error that wasn't caught that effectively implies someone she once loved; but doesn't any longer, but I definitely did notice it when first I saw it.

 

Only her attitude in DAI made me think it wasn't worth mentioning on the forum.

 

I think her constant gushing over the Warden in DAI elucidates her true feelings. Her possesive self, "'Tis fortunate MY warden wasn't there..."; her bragging self "...you may know him as the Hero of Ferelden"; and the umpteen times she makes references to 'My Love,"; not to mention she states that she fully intends to join her love once more notes that this was either a quaint English language 'rule' or a mistake. 

 

Still I love the scene, past tense or not, because while we may never get to see her tell the Warden, 'I love you'... she talks about the man she loves (er, loveD lol)... this being the same Morrigan who once told Leliana love was a disease.

[Ash Wind]

Ok Morri thread, I forwarded this to Brock last night but forgot to bring it up here, it seems an interview with Gaider and co is coming up, featuring some info on cut content and presumably other stuff. 

 

http://forum.bioware...iter-interview/

 

Of particular note to us:
#Biowarechat @dragonage origins originally was intended to be told retrospectively....by an old woman...MORRIGAN! @davidgaider 

 

I find this particularly interesting in light of the idea that I floated a few months back that Morrigan would have a bookend role at the end of the series and I'm guessing this will be adapted to Morrigan telling the story of the whole Dragon Age at the tail end of the series. t supports the notion that Morrigan is essentially one of if not the most important character in the series, the idea that she is important to the DA world has been suggested by the devs on more than one occasion. It's not all sunshine and rainbows however, there are quite a few way further Morrigan reappearances could go wrong, but her final appearance, if done well and if sufficiently reactive to past events could be quite interesting. We'll undoubtedly get into more detail when the full interview appears, but any initial thoughts on this?

Awesome stuff, will be interesting to see the full interview. On Morrigan, I recall when DAO was the rage, someone asking DG who was the first character to take shape, and he replied that it was Morrigan. Certainly is interesting and notes her supreme importance, however, doesn't gurantee a 'happy ending.' Especially considering that Flemeth is an old woman, so the term 'old woman' could have a myrad of meanings... add in the events of the end of DAI, is she old in the sense of decades... or centuries...? Will she be a bitter old crone like Flemeth, burned by the loss of her love, and maybe even her son? Trapped, in this world by Flemeth's gift...?

[Lord_Anthonior]

Considering 'tis Mother's Day...

 

 

[line_genrou]

Man, how come I find the animations in DAO are better than in DAI? In DAI they are awkward as hell

[Miss Golightly]

Morrigan is basically the DA Mother of the Year by default. She doesn't really have any strong competition. In all honesty, if you told me back before DAI came out that Morrigan was going to be a good mom... I would have given you a blank stare.

 

 

Man, how come I find the animations in DAO are better than in DAI? In DAI they are awkward as hell

You're not alone on that. I found the animations in DAI to be a little stiff. 

[BurningLizard]

Morrigan is basically the DA Mother of the Year by default. She doesn't really have any strong competition. In all honesty, if you told me back before DAI came out that Morrigan was going to be a good mom... I would have given you a blank stare.

 

 

You're not alone on that. I found the animations in DAI to be a little stiff. 

The character poses are a bit awkward too. Like the way they just stand has me thinking "That's not how people stand. That's how a chiropractor's textbook illustration stands". 

 

I had always hoped that Morrigan would make a good mother, since it would be great character development for her. But yeah, I had my moments where I worried how they would pull it off.

 

Speaking of mothers, does anyone else think it's odd that none of the other LIs produce any children? I know there's the whole, Grey Wardens have a hard time having children, but we get reference to that one wartable mission where a nobleman loses his title because it's discovered his father was a grey warden. And the HoF that romanced Morrigan and refused her ritual still gets her pregnant. So it's not impossible that Leliana and a HoF that was with her for ten years would inevitably have a child. Unless Morrigan did something to make herself more fertile while she was with the HoF, and it backfires on her if he refuses her? I dunno.

 

And for Alistair and Zevran, I guess we're meant to understand that female wardens are even less likely to have children? I keep hearing that in the fandom, but has that ever been actually stated in the lore?

[Miss Golightly]

The character poses are a bit awkward too. Like the way they just stand has me thinking "That's not how people stand. That's how a chiropractor's textbook illustration stands". 

 

I had always hoped that Morrigan would make a good mother, since it would be great character development for her. But yeah, I had my moments where I worried how they would pull it off.

 

Speaking of mothers, does anyone else think it's odd that none of the other LIs produce any children? I know there's the whole, Grey Wardens have a hard time having children, but we get reference to that one wartable mission where a nobleman loses his title because it's discovered his father was a grey warden. And the HoF that romanced Morrigan and refused her ritual still gets her pregnant. So it's not impossible that Leliana and a HoF that was with her for ten years would inevitably have a child. Unless Morrigan did something to make herself more fertile while she was with the HoF, and it backfires on her if he refuses her? I dunno.

 

And for Alistair and Zevran, I guess we're meant to understand that female wardens are even less likely to have children? I keep hearing that in the fandom, but has that ever been actually stated in the lore?

Having Morrigan as a mother is excellent character development, for sure. I think it's quite fitting. But if you told me back when I played DAO that she'd be a good mom.... I'd have a hard time believing it.

 

I think Morrigan probably was taking certain steps that would ensure that she would be fertile for the DR. Considering she'd only have one shot at it and she probably knew Wardens had a hard time having children to begin with, it wouldn't shock me if this was true.

 

As for the fertility of Grey Wardens.... I think the taint increases sex drive, but it sterilizes all of the variables needed to procreate. Perhaps female Wardens are more effected by this, or they feel the effects a lot quicker?

This could potentially explain why we've never heard anything (to this point) about King Alistair and Queen Cousland having any heirs. It could also be one of many reasons the HoF and Morrigan don't have any other children. It could also help explain why the Warden and Leliana/Zevran don't have children either. Of course, in Leliana's case, she's out doing her whole spy thing, so children would probably end that part of her life (and her whole persona in DAI would be different, I imagine).

 

But then there's the case of Grand Enchanter Fiona. But she had Alistair after she was kicked out of the Grey Wardens. So remove the taint from the blood and suddenly you can have offspring, I guess?

 

All speculation, of course. 

[BurningLizard]

Having Morrigan as a mother is excellent character development, for sure. I think it's quite fitting. But if you told me back when I played DAO that she'd be a good mom.... I'd have a hard time believing it.

 

I think Morrigan probably was taking certain steps that would ensure that she would be fertile for the DR. Considering she'd only have one shot at it and she probably knew Wardens had a hard time having children to begin with, it wouldn't shock me if this was true.

 

As for the fertility of Grey Wardens.... I think the taint increases sex drive, but it sterilizes all of the variables needed to procreate. Perhaps female Wardens are more effected by this, or they feel the effects a lot quicker?

This could potentially explain why we've never heard anything (to this point) about King Alistair and Queen Cousland having any heirs. It could also be one of many reasons the HoF and Morrigan don't have any other children. It could also help explain why the Warden and Leliana/Zevran don't have children either. Of course, in Leliana's case, she's out doing her whole spy thing, so children would probably end that part of her life (and her whole persona in DAI would be different, I imagine).

 

But then there's the case of Grand Enchanter Fiona. But she had Alistair after she was kicked out of the Grey Wardens. So remove the taint from the blood and suddenly you can have offspring, I guess?

 

All speculation, of course. 

My favorite head canon about this is that as soon as the HoF cures the taint suddenly Morrigan finds herself the mother of eight children before she realizes what happened. 

[Miss Golightly]

Ok Morri thread, I forwarded this to Brock last night but forgot to bring it up here, it seems an interview with Gaider and co is coming up, featuring some info on cut content and presumably other stuff. 

 

http://forum.bioware...iter-interview/

 

Of particular note to us:
#Biowarechat @dragonage origins originally was intended to be told retrospectively....by an old woman...MORRIGAN! @davidgaider 

 

I find this particularly interesting in light of the idea that I floated a few months back that Morrigan would have a bookend role at the end of the series and I'm guessing this will be adapted to Morrigan telling the story of the whole Dragon Age at the tail end of the series. t supports the notion that Morrigan is essentially one of if not the most important character in the series, the idea that she is important to the DA world has been suggested by the devs on more than one occasion. It's not all sunshine and rainbows however, there are quite a few way further Morrigan reappearances could go wrong, but her final appearance, if done well and if sufficiently reactive to past events could be quite interesting. We'll undoubtedly get into more detail when the full interview appears, but any initial thoughts on this?

 

Been meaning to reply to this.

 

I wouldn't be shocked if Morrigan had a key role at the very end of the series. She's the poster child of the series and the one character who will not die. She may very well end up being the single thread that ties the whole tale together.

If you ask Kieran who his mother is, he'll say something along the lines of "she who awaits the next age" or something like that. So if they end the Dragon Age series at the very end of the Dragon Age, that could make sense.

 

For some reason, I don't think Morrigan will have a happy ending though. I think it'll be bittersweet at best, and absolutely tragic at worst.

 

Of course, how Bioware goes about this, I have not the slightest clue. We all know that Bioware is very capable at dropping the ball when it matters (one must wonder how some things slip through the cracks without anyone ever saying anything during development). But when Bioware gets it right, they get it damn right. The moment when you're looking for Kieran in the Fade with Morrigan is an example. I almost started crying during that scene. That was probably the only scene in DAI that made me feel deeply emotionally invested. We probably owe part of that to Claudia Black's stellar performance, but the other part is the fact that the player could be sitting there saying "that's my Warden's little boy, I have to find him!".

[Miss Golightly]

My favorite head canon about this is that as soon as the HoF cures the taint suddenly Morrigan finds herself the mother of eight children before she realizes what happened. 

 

I like to think that as soon as they're all reunited, Kieran asks for a younger sibling as he feels lonely with no Old God voice in his head and there were no other children to play with at Skyhold.

[BurningLizard]

Been meaning to reply to this.

 

I wouldn't be shocked if Morrigan had a key role at the very end of the series. She's the poster child of the series and the one character who will not die. She may very well end up being the single thread that ties the whole tale together.

If you ask Kieran who his mother is, he'll say something along the lines of "she who awaits the next age" or something like that. So if they end the Dragon Age series at the very end of the Dragon Age, that could make sense.

 

For some reason, I don't think Morrigan will have a happy ending though. I think it'll be bittersweet at best, and absolutely tragic at worst.

 

Of course, how Bioware goes about this, I have not the slightest clue. We all know that Bioware is very capable at dropping the ball when it matters (one must wonder how some things slip through the cracks without anyone ever saying anything during development). But when Bioware gets it right, they get it damn right. The moment when you're looking for Kieran in the Fade with Morrigan is an example. I almost started crying during that scene. That was probably the only scene in DAI that made me feel deeply emotionally invested. We probably owe part of that to Claudia Black's stellar performance, but the other part is the fact that the player could be sitting there saying "that's my Warden's little boy, I have to find him!".

My actions during that scene were almost specifically guided by what my Warden would do. It's why my Inquisitor tried to attack her. And got backhanded by a Morrigan who drank from the well. Makes me wish my Warden HAD been in that scene. Just imagine the scene afterwards. "I think you broke my nose."
 

Also, in regards to the confrontation with Flemeth. Does anyone know what the conditions are between Morrigan telling Flemeth, "Take over my body if you must. I will not be the mother you were to me." vs "I'll take my chances. Kieran will be better off without me. Just as I was better off without you." I got the second option, which plays into my "Morrigan thinks/is terrified that she's a terrible mother and has crippling self doubt" but I really would have preferred the first dialogue. What do I do to control which one I get? Is it my dialogue choices in that scene or something earlier?

[Terra_Ex]

Also, in regards to the confrontation with Flemeth. Does anyone know what the conditions are between Morrigan telling Flemeth, "Take over my body if you must. I will not be the mother you were to me." vs "I'll take my chances. Kieran will be better off without me. Just as I was better off without you." I got the second option, which plays into my "Morrigan thinks/is terrified that she's a terrible mother and has crippling self doubt" but I really would have preferred the first dialogue. What do I do to control which one I get? Is it my dialogue choices in that scene or something earlier?

I was seemingly always locked into the first two lines shown below, no matter what branches I chose, which is probably why I hold the opposite viewpoint on the self doubt issue. I'm noticing two variations of the offer to surrender her body (note I don't know if these are in order, just pulled pertinent lines from the files):

 

This is what I recall getting:
-Do whatever you wish. Take over my body now, if you must, but Kieran will be free of your clutches.
-I am many things, but I will not be the mother you were to me.

 

These lines (which are similar) are also nearby:
-Take over my body now, if you must. Just let Kieran go.
-He will be better off without me, just as I was better off without you.

Working up the dialogue tree in xml form (discerned by following the parent/child node relationships "up* the tree starting at that line), and bear in mind this is just a  guess, one of preceding conversation nodes seems to have  a plot flag check, so I'd guess it's affected by something somewhere else. What that flag is and where it is set, I do not know. Maybe I'll replay the scene later and check again.

[Miss Golightly]

I didn't know there were alternate lines there. I got the first option both of you listed.

 

I think I have a back up save file that was near that scene.... or it was near the end of "What Pride Had Wrought". If I have time, I could work my way back to that scene and try to get the second dialogue. Unless the option that triggers those lines is even before that....

 

As for how Morrigan feels about her parenting skills, I think she probably would doubt herself sometimes, but in that moment she knew she was a far better mother than Flemeth, and she would continue to do so.

[Terra_Ex]

I didn't know there were alternate lines there. I got the first option both of you listed.

 

I think I have a back up save file that was near that scene.... or it was near the end of "What Pride Had Wrought". If I have time, I could work my way back to that scene and try to get the second dialogue. Unless the option that triggers those lines is even before that....

 

As for how Morrigan feels about her parenting skills, I think she probably would doubt herself sometimes, but in that moment she knew she was a far better mother than Flemeth, and she would continue to do so.

It occurs pretty much immediately after the temple of mythal, well of sorrows business as I recall. I just watched a video of the subject where the player attacks Flemeth which lead to that alternate dialogue, so maybe that's all it takes. Agreed on the self doubt issue.

[Ash Wind]

I was seemingly always locked into the first two lines shown below, no matter what branches I chose, which is probably why I hold the opposite viewpoint on the self doubt issue. I'm noticing two variations of the offer to surrender her body (note I don't know if these are in order, just pulled pertinent lines from the files):

 

This is what I recall getting:
-Do whatever you wish. Take over my body now, if you must, but Kieran will be free of your clutches.
-I am many things, but I will not be the mother you were to me.

 

These lines (which are similar) are also nearby:
-Take over my body now, if you must. Just let Kieran go.
-He will be better off without me, just as I was better off without you.

Working up the dialogue tree in xml form (discerned by following the parent/child node relationships "up* the tree starting at that line), and bear in mind this is just a  guess, one of preceding conversation nodes seems to have  a plot flag check, so I'd guess it's affected by something somewhere else. What that flag is and where it is set, I do not know. Maybe I'll replay the scene later and check again.

 

Not sure if it has a bearing on the scene, but when you first encounter Morri and K at Skyhold, IQ can say, 'He's a bit... odd.'

 

Morrigan goes on about him being special, then states a curious line about, 'No one could harm him more than I.' Which of course depends on her definition of 'harm' as technically, just about anyone could inflict great physical harm or death upon him.

 

I never cared for the lines and didn't use them going forward and never got the He will be better off without me. line. As I recall, you can choose to ask about Kieran's father (Warden in all my playthroughs) or talk about him being odd, but not both.

[Terra_Ex]

Still I love the scene, past tense or not, because while we may never get to see her tell the Warden, 'I love you'... she talks about the man she loves (er, loveD lol)... this being the same Morrigan who once told Leliana love was a disease.

Coming back to the idea that Morrigan has trouble expressing her emotions, which we see again in DAI, do we think she'd ever actually be able to say those words to HoF outside of some extreme circumstance? She strikes me as someone who would skirt around the issue with him (not in a malicious way), fully aware of what it is, yet somehow unable to call it by its rightful name.
 

Awesome stuff, will be interesting to see the full interview. On Morrigan, I recall when DAO was the rage, someone asking DG who was the first character to take shape, and he replied that it was Morrigan. Certainly is interesting and notes her supreme importance, however, doesn't gurantee a 'happy ending.' Especially considering that Flemeth is an old woman, so the term 'old woman' could have a myrad of meanings... add in the events of the end of DAI, is she old in the sense of decades... or centuries...? Will she be a bitter old crone like Flemeth, burned by the loss of her love, and maybe even her son? Trapped, in this world by Flemeth's gift...?

Yes, I concur. There are several potential issues that might displease us and your thoughts mirror my own on the matter. It definitely bears considering what sort of impact the deaths of HoF & Kieran would have on Morrigan, adding godhood and powers to the mix seems to make for a potentially unstable reaction or just a melancholic note to end on overall. (Still haven't forgotten Viconia, Gaider.) Having her become Flemeth 2.0 as a singular preordained outcome likely won't please me.
 

I had always hoped that Morrigan would make a good mother, since it would be great character development for her. But yeah, I had my moments where I worried how they would pull it off.
 
Speaking of mothers, does anyone else think it's odd that none of the other LIs produce any children? I know there's the whole, Grey Wardens have a hard time having children, but we get reference to that one wartable mission where a nobleman loses his title because it's discovered his father was a grey warden. And the HoF that romanced Morrigan and refused her ritual still gets her pregnant. So it's not impossible that Leliana and a HoF that was with her for ten years would inevitably have a child. Unless Morrigan did something to make herself more fertile while she was with the HoF, and it backfires on her if he refuses her? I dunno.
 
And for Alistair and Zevran, I guess we're meant to understand that female wardens are even less likely to have children? I keep hearing that in the fandom, but has that ever been actually stated in the lore?

Morrigan might be more fertile if she is Flemeth's daughter, I suppose. I think regular Kieran was more a play on how she generally has a low opinion of children in one of her rants, but ends up with one. Or how she doesn't want to fall in love, but does. Or how the ring isn't a sentimental gift. Or how she doesn't want HoF to go with her in WH, except later she does. And so on...
 

Morrigan is basically the DA Mother of the Year by default. She doesn't really have any strong competition. In all honesty, if you told me back before DAI came out that Morrigan was going to be a good mom... I would have given you a blank stare.

I'd be interested to know just how long it took Morrigan to go from her DAO self to start edging towards the Morri we saw in DAI. You could posit we might have seen the first hint of that side of her taking hold with her turnaround in attitude in WH, seeing as Kieran had already been born at that point and Morrigan was still pursuing some plan and stealing books in her spare time, it can't have been immediate. "In every way. At first, Kieran was a means to an end, but as he grew..." Her dialogue confirms her feelings changed as he grew.  It'd be intriguing to know her own inner feelings on that in more detail as well as HoF's perspective as he observes Morrigan change over time. One can only imagine what form such dialogues between them might take, given the conflicting emotions over the original reason for Kieran's existence that'd certainly trouble her as her bond with Kieran grew over time.
 
Like you mentioned on the previous page, I too take her tendency to trail off when recollecting something as becoming lost in thought. She's already been shown to slip into idle reverie when observing a HoF she cares for in camp during a conversation with Wynne. Flip side of that though is it's also quite easy to imagine her thoughts getting away from her if left unchecked and reaching some fairly dark conclusions as to her self worth. Regardless of whether she is with HoF or not, I'd still say that she'd ultimately use any such doubt to strengthen her resolve to do better, and we see the result of that conviction in the Fade scene.
 
Which leads me onto this- Morrigan says that she's sacrificed something (considerable) for Kieran during the initial part of the Fade scene where she's looking for him. I personally take this as her giving up on whatever her original plans were for him as well as turning her back on Flemeth and so on but I also feel there's possibly more to it than that. So my question is, what do people think Morrigan was referring to when she references the sacrifices that she has made?

More later, time permitting.

[Miss Golightly]

Coming back to the idea that Morrigan has trouble expressing her emotions, which we see again in DAI, do we think she'd ever actually be able to say those words to HoF outside of some extreme circumstance? She strikes me as someone who would skirt around the issue with him (not in a malicious way), fully aware of what it is, yet somehow unable to call it by its rightful name.

 

I'd be interested to know just how long it took Morrigan to go from her DAO self to start edging towards the Morri we saw in DAI. You could posit we might have seen the first hint of that side of her taking hold with her turnaround in attitude in WH, seeing as Kieran had already been born at that point and Morrigan was still pursuing some plan and stealing books in her spare time, it can't have been immediate. "In every way. At first, Kieran was a means to an end, but as he grew..." Her dialogue confirms her feelings changed as he grew.  It'd be intriguing to know her own inner feelings on that in more detail as well as HoF's perspective as he observes Morrigan change over time. One can only imagine what form such dialogues between them might take, given the conflicting emotions over the original reason for Kieran's existence that'd certainly trouble her as her bond with Kieran grew over time.
 
Like you mentioned on the previous page, I too take her tendency to trail off when recollecting something as becoming lost in thought. She's already been shown to slip into idle reverie when observing a HoF she cares for in camp during a conversation with Wynne. Flip side of that though is it's also quite easy to imagine her thoughts getting away from her if left unchecked and reaching some fairly dark conclusions as to her self worth. Regardless of whether she is with HoF or not, I'd still say that she'd ultimately use any such doubt to strengthen her resolve to do better, and we see the result of that conviction in the Fade scene.
 
Which leads me onto this- Morrigan says that she's sacrificed something (considerable) for Kieran during the initial part of the Fade scene where she's looking for him. I personally take this as her giving up on whatever her original plans were for him as well as turning her back on Flemeth and so on but I also feel there's possibly more to it than that. So my question is, what do people think Morrigan was referring to when she references the sacrifices that she has made?

More later, time permitting.

 

Morrigan ever actually saying "I love you" is an interesting thought. She's more of a "show, but don't tell" kind of person. I don't think she'd ever admit it unless the HoF was dying in her arms or something extreme like that. But most of the time, I think she would just beat around the bush on the issue and my HoF would be okay with that.

I imagine behind closed doors and away from prying eyes, Morrigan often hugs Kieran and tells him that she loves him. I don't think she'd want him to ever feel unwanted or unloved (especially if he has the Old God soul).

 

As for when Morrigan's DAO persona shifted to her DAI one... it was definitely gradual. Many people say that the first time they hold their newborn child, they're a different (and often better) person. And as Kieran got older, Morrigan began to realize that he wasn't what she thought he was going to be. She probably believed he was going to be the Old God reborn or something, and what she got instead was a sweet little boy who had this sort of "imaginary friend". I also believe that she saw a bit of herself in her son and realized that she'd be no better than Flemeth if she followed through with her original intent for the OGB. She'd be using her own child, just as Flemeth used her, and she wasn't going to restart the cycle. 

 

I've often wondered about what exactly she sacrificed as well. I believe it was her original goals with the Old God soul. If that's true, I'm even more interested in knowing what Morrigan's intentions were. "Preserving the magic of old" does not seem to fit the bill.

[Brockololly]

Which leads me onto this- Morrigan says that she's sacrificed something (considerable) for Kieran during the initial part of the Fade scene where she's looking for him. I personally take this as her giving up on whatever her original plans were for him as well as turning her back on Flemeth and so on but I also feel there's possibly more to it than that. So my question is, what do people think Morrigan was referring to when she references the sacrifices that she has made?

Hmmm.. I don't exactly remember the exact line you're referring to. I'll have to check that out again. Not remembering the context really but could it not also just be the sort of general sacrifices one would make in raising a kid and being a parent?

But I'll have to look at that scene again, since I don't recall the specifics...

[Terra_Ex]

Hmmm.. I don't exactly remember the exact line you're referring to. I'll have to check that out again. Not remembering the context really but could it not also just be the sort of general sacrifices one would make in raising a kid and being a parent?

But I'll have to look at that scene again, since I don't recall the specifics...

I would say no to that, given the context and Morrigan being distraught I think it's meant to be something more. Here's the scene to refresh your memory if required: It's an interesting line as it sort of gets lost in the shuffle of all the other stuff transpiring at the time.

https://youtu.be/vSqMJ6Yp83I?t=49m7s

[Ash Wind]

Coming back to the idea that Morrigan has trouble expressing her emotions, which we see again in DAI, do we think she'd ever actually be able to say those words to HoF outside of some extreme circumstance? She strikes me as someone who would skirt around the issue with him (not in a malicious way), fully aware of what it is, yet somehow unable to call it by its rightful name.
 

 

Ok, call me a nerd… lol

 

In the Princess Bride, the narrator explains that when Wesley says, ‘As you wish…” he’s really saying I love you.

 

I think the Morrigan/Warden relationship is sophisticated enough that there would be a certain lexicon between the two that allowed them to say certain things, without, actually having to say them. Might be something as simple and transparent as when she says, “My love,” aka Yes, I love you… get over it.

[Ash Wind]

 

I'd be interested to know just how long it took Morrigan to go from her DAO self to start edging towards the Morri we saw in DAI. You could posit we might have seen the first hint of that side of her taking hold with her turnaround in attitude in WH, seeing as Kieran had already been born at that point and Morrigan was still pursuing some plan and stealing books in her spare time, it can't have been immediate. "In every way. At first, Kieran was a means to an end, but as he grew..." Her dialogue confirms her feelings changed as he grew.  It'd be intriguing to know her own inner feelings on that in more detail as well as HoF's perspective as he observes Morrigan change over time. One can only imagine what form such dialogues between them might take, given the conflicting emotions over the original reason for Kieran's existence that'd certainly trouble her as her bond with Kieran grew over time.
 

 

I actually think it starts much earlier, with the gift of the Golden Mirror… under the right circumstance.

 

When Morrigan asks the Warden to kill Flemeth, “…without hope of real reward.” There is still the reality that if the Warden doesn’t, Morrigan will leave. So she can rationalize that it’s still ******-for-tat in respect to Morrigan remaining in the party, do as she asks or she leaves.

 

The Golden Mirror is another story. It completely catches her off guard. Give it to her unconditionally (post break-up), and it totally blows her preconceived notions out of the water:

 

Morrigan: ‘…surely you must wish something from me.’
Warden:  ‘It’s simply a gift, for a beautiful woman.’
Morrigan: ‘I have never received a gift before, not one that did not also come with a price attached…,’

 

The grace in which she accepts the gift unconditionally is touching and I believe that’s when her change starts. Yes she will still leave the Warden, but is that more a contrivance of the plot or her true desire? The very next time she will see the Warden, in WH, she’s more than willing to a.) sense his approach, and yet will remain behind rather than flee (as she does in DAO) and b.)ultimately allow the Warden to come through the Eluvian with her.

 

Just to Note: My playthroughs are Romance Morrigan>>Morrigan Falls In Love>>Crazy Morrigan forces Break-up>>>Warden gives the Golden Mirror and Morrigan is back in love (she won't sleep with the Warden but will play kissy-face).

 

Everytime I've done this, I've gotten the Sorrow and Regret slide in the epilogue.

[BurningLizard]

I actually think it starts much earlier, with the gift of the Golden Mirror… under the right circumstance.

 

When Morrigan asks the Warden to kill Flemeth, “…without hope of real reward.” There is still the reality that if the Warden doesn’t, Morrigan will leave. So she can rationalize that it’s still ******-for-tat in respect to Morrigan remaining in the party, do as she asks or she leaves.

 

The Golden Mirror is another story. It completely catches her off guard. Give it to her unconditionally (post break-up), and it totally blows her preconceived notions out of the water:

 

Morrigan: ‘…surely you must wish something from me.’
Warden:  ‘It’s simply a gift, for a beautiful woman.’
Morrigan: ‘I have never received a gift before, not one that did not also come with a price attached…,’

 

The grace in which she accepts the gift unconditionally is touching and I believe that’s when her change starts. Yes she will still leave the Warden, but is that more a contrivance of the plot or her true desire? The very next time she will see the Warden, in WH, she’s more than willing to a.) sense his approach, and yet will remain behind rather than flee (as she does in DAO) and b.)ultimately allow the Warden to come through the Eluvian with her.

 

Just to Note: My playthroughs are Romance Morrigan>>Morrigan Falls In Love>>Crazy Morrigan forces Break-up>>>Warden gives the Golden Mirror and Morrigan is back in love (she won't sleep with the Warden but will play kissy-face).

 

Everytime I've done this, I've gotten the Sorrow and Regret slide in the epilogue.

I've always like to give the mirror post DR. Imagine how she'd react to that kind of unconditional gift even AFTER the reveal that ultimately she had been using him to further her own goals, though she did sincerely fall in love with him. I can imagine that would leave a pretty big impression.

[Terra_Ex]

Morrigan ever actually saying "I love you" is an interesting thought. She's more of a "show, but don't tell" kind of person. I don't think she'd ever admit it unless the HoF was dying in her arms or something extreme like that. But most of the time, I think she would just beat around the bush on the issue and my HoF would be okay with that.

Yeah, that's my take on it too. I think there is an unspoken understanding on that issue (well it's not even an issue, just a quirk of their dynamic) and that particular scenario was also what I was thinking of, that would be more than enough to draw the words out of her.
 

Ok, call me a nerd… lol
 
In the Princess Bride, the narrator explains that when Wesley says, ‘As you wish…” he’s really saying I love you.
 
I think the Morrigan/Warden relationship is sophisticated enough that there would be a certain lexicon between the two that allowed them to say certain things, without, actually having to say them. Might be something as simple and transparent as when she says, “My love,” aka Yes, I love you… get over it.

Sure, she would have other terms of endearment, but even 'my love' isn't as declarative as 'I love you' and the question is really what circumstances would prompt/allow her to say those words without a veil of any kind. I prefer the idea that that's off the table unless under some extreme circumstance, like HoF dying, which while being a bit too feels intensive for me, I can easily picture the scene with Claudia's voicework. To Morrigan, those words specifically should carry more meaning than to others who casually bandy the term around, heightened emotions break the barriers down which would make such a statement far more meaningful.

 

I'm not saying that she never says words to similar effect, it's a known thing that wordplay is inherent to her romance and character, but we're questioning what circumstance she'd make that statement. Its a question in the same vein as whether the ring was given out of sentimentality, Morri will vehemently deny it, despite the truth being clear. Paradoxically, it might also be easier for her to tell others (to whom she has little emotional attachment) that she loves HoF than it is for her to state it so matter-of-factly to the man himself.

 

Succinctly, both sides feel that the words don't need to be spoken as the depth of feeling through action is already there, but particular scenarios as highlighted above would most definitely punch you right in the feels.

[MisterJB]

 

I'd be interested to know just how long it took Morrigan to go from her DAO self to start edging towards the Morri we saw in DAI.

 

She plays with Dog in WH.

Morrigan. Played. With Dog.
 

[Miss Golightly]

So after I beat DAI the second time, I kind of wanted to go back and replay the first two games. I can say that I've had quite a few "AHA!" and "I know where this is going..." moments. 

I'm currently on Dragon Age II, and as many of you know, Flemeth likes to troll the crap out of everyone, so she appears near the start of the game and during Act 1. 

 

I take the amulet to Sundermount, have Merill do the rite and Flemeth appears. She speaks cryptically as usual, makes some very accurate observations about my party members, but then she says something interesting. She says she was taking precautions because she believed Morrigan would turn against her (or she already has). Indicating that she knew Morrigan would find out about the whole body-possession thing and she was expecting Morrigan to rebel. This explains how Flemeth survives even if the Warden slays her, as the amulet acts as a sort of horcrux (for those of you who are familiar with Harry Potter).

Hawke can then ask who Morrigan is, and Flemeth basically says that Morrigan is someone who thinks she knows everything, and it isn't shocking because she raised her to be that way. Hawke will then comment that she isn't certain if Morrigan is Flemeth's daughter or her enemy. Flemeth then simply says "Neither is she."

 

So.... Flemeth intentionally raised Morrigan to be difficult? For what purpose? If a soul cannot be forced upon the unwilling (as she says in DAI), raising a headstrong daughter would make the whole possession thing nearly impossible, wouldn't it? Of course, the Robes of Possession have -1 Willpower....

What about any other daughters? Were they similar to Morrigan, or did Flemeth take a different approach? I suppose it isn't far-fetched to say other daughters probably consented to the whole possession thing as Flemeth raises her daughters with the desire to preserve old magic. They'd see it as a way to save a piece of history. But again, Morrigan differs from the rest of the pack. Flemeth sends Morrigan away. Her daughter (potentially) feels love for another person. Romance with a male Warden, a sisterly-bond with a female Warden, platonic friendship with a male Warden and/or the love a mother has for her son (with Kieran). Morrigan is free to experience love. What made Morrigan so special? Was it just the timing?

 

The original belief is that Morrigan would have gotten pregnant with the OGB, returned to Flemeth, Flemeth would have taken over Morrigan's body and had the OGB herself. But now with all that we know.... that whole original intent seems rather clouded. It seems as if Flemeth knew the whole time that Morrigan would find out and was anticipating her to retaliate. So, was the whole body snatching scheme just a way to get Morrigan to play ball the way Flemeth wanted her to? 
My head hurts now. I'm spiraling...