Gonna try and get through the rest of it tomorrow.
I was wondering something about Kieran's soul. I think you guys discussed it before(been lurking for a while^^), but i don't remember anyone coming to the same conclusion as i have.
So back in Origins we thought the OGB would be a kid with the soul of Urthemiel. But when he turned out to be a (relatively) normal kid that can survive without the old god soul, everyone(iirc) assumed that he had two souls- Urthemiel's and his own, normal one.
My theory is that Kieran simply has no soul at all anymore. He had one, now Flemeth has it. We know from the awakened darkspawn that a soul is not required for life or intelligence, so it's possible.
And that got me thinking about afterlife. The chantry teaches that the souls of the (faithful?)dead travel through the fade to the maker's side. When a grey warden slays an archdemon, his or her soul is destroyed. I always took that to mean that this warden is permadead, no afterlife for him/her.
So if Kieran really has no soul, that could mean that there is no afterlife waiting for him.
What are you guys' thoughts on this? What would his parents think about this, would they worry? Does Morrigan even believe in any kind of afterlife(probably not) and how much does she know about souls?
I recall there is a banter, maybe several between Morrigan and Leliana on her religious beliefs.
One would assume that she would have to come to believe in *something* given the bound to her mother for eternity business, seeing as that by definition extends beyond death. But that something could just be powerful magic. I suppose another interesting point would be - as I recall Morrigan thinks the old gods were just powerful people rather than outright being gods, but then you have the notion of bound souls, like with the servitude to Mythal. But if she's just another old god soul, if one were to destroy said soul in a manner similar to Ultimate Sacrifice, wouldn't that obliterate that link between any bound souls? Then if you surmise that anyone could theoretically become a godlike figure, given sufficient power couldn't you just unbind yourself? Your comment on souls being destroyed just got me thinking on that. Just a random tangent...
Returning to your point, my thoughts are he has a regular soul & OG soul, if for no other reason than I don't see BioWare adding further nuance to that plotline. His comment on feeling lonely implies the presence of another who was always with him and perhaps an awareness of "self," maybe like a conjoined twin in soul terms, much like how Flemeth describes her additional soul as part of her. And for that matter how do you deal with entities like Flemeth, who seemingly hosts two souls, somehow splits herself into two pieces, *dies* in one, but is perfectly fine in the other location. This is also one of many areas where I start having issues with the various theories on Mythal orchestrating grand schemes, when she's described essentially as a being a soul on death's door and one which seemingly requires a powerful host body to anything of note.
If your proposed scenario were the case though - would they worry? I'd presume so, it would likely amplify a sense of guilt on both sides and seeing how a parental relationship with a kid with powers was explored in Witcher 3, some of those issues might have interesting to explore, if BioWare had included all relevant parties. That being said, I think Kieran being by and large just a normal boy (though probably a mage) was done to act as grounding for Morrigan's character development and forcing her to deal with a bunch of stuff she wasn't really prepared for. In that sense, it makes sense that aside from the soul, he is normal. In terms of his affect on Morrigan, I think it works well enough as is except for one scene.
For me the appeal of doing a "Morrigan with an extended family" would definitely be the humor, while also exploring what it would do to her personality. Morrigan having "in laws" that are good people, exposing her to different types of positive relationships and so on. Though I'll be honest, the idea came about entirely from a "Morrigan and Cousland trying to have a sexual relationship with his family getting in the way. Tee hee hee."
Well, it was Morri's prurient interests that paved the way for all the awesome stuff to happen, so why not? I gathered you were going for the humour angle from your description but then the more interesting question of how that might affect her took hold in my mind. Kind of annoying how Cousland's parents are canonically dead now... I think there are two different scenarios where I could see interesting developments, humour aside:
-the what ifs, so what if the family had not died. Also taken further, what if they'd known each other from a younger age and Morrigan run away from the Wilds permanently or something. Granted Morrigan wouldn't really be fully Morrigan in that regard, but a half screwed up Morrigan be interesting.
-the canon possible states, with the remnant family, Fergus and the like. Considering Morrigan's relationship with her mother and sisters is far from ideal, that could still work. Specifically post-WH because although Morrigan doesn't go out of her way to be super nice to people around that time, it'd be intriguing to see how she'd handle being introduced to Aedan's brother and not wanting to er... "pull a Morrigan" and somehow offend or make a bad impression inadvertently. It's also rife with potential because Fergus comments that after he was KO'd early in the blight, he spends some time recovering with the Chasind.
I keep seeing that as well, and I just don't get how people can't get past the "she's mean" aspect of the character's personality. Which pisses me off at times because if you take an example from anime, Sasuke from Naruto has a huge fandom, and yet I'm sitting here thinking "He's a bland sociopath, how do you people like him?" And yet they're going on about how he's had such a tragic past, etc. The difference is that I feel like characters like Morrigan and Yennefer actually have some depth to them. So it almost comes across like people don't want to bother getting to know the jerk character if there's more to them than what's on the surface. Or, and I hate to play this card, maybe it just comes down to gender. If a guy is a jerk they're a rebel, if a girl is a jerk at best she's tolerated and at worst she's loathed. Which really is a loss for everyone. Characters that act like jerks are definitely interesting, but only really if they get us asking questions. Trying to figure out why the character acts the way they do.
Well, you won't find the answers here, this is quite literally the Morrigan choir you're preaching to and we also bat for team Yen. Haven't watched Naruto so can't comment on that.
Gender could certainly be a factor, it was certainly interesting to me note the strong overlap between the two, as well the subtleties they share in terms being caring mothers and skirting around divulging their true feelings. Yet despite the positives, they endure harsh criticism due to the surface detail. Age could be another factor as well. Casting my mind back, I probably didn't fully appreciate characters like Viconia in Baldurs Gate 2 when I first played it (that would come later), while I did enjoy Aerie, who comparatively was nicey nice.
With Morrigan, if you dig down, much of her demeanour is Flemeth's (unwanted) handiwork (which, in the scenario that she isn't her biological daughter is perhaps even worse) which is secretly at odds with how she really feels. So you'd think as an onlooker, the player would consider "hey this girl's mother did quite the number on her," yet you know how that goes. Taken to its logical conclusion, you could posit that Morrigan was raised precisely the way she was to ensure that nobody would interfere with her mother's bodysnatching plans, or at the very least to craft her in her mirror image, carrying forward another's will and none of her own. And with Yen, you have someone who tried to kill herself in the past and faces similar mistrust and scorn to Morri, essentially two fundamentally broken characters who have sort of pieced themselves back together, but in some sense they're unfulfilled. The two sides of Morrigan battling against each other *is* her friendship/romance arc and it's hard not to love Morrigan when you come to appreciate the whole story. Even more so if she's with HoF after WH because you then get to consider how Morrigan's change over time would look from his position. Is she self conscious to be somewhat letting go of her old self and embracing the other side, etc. Watching and theorising on how that dynamic has shifted and plays out is far more interesting to me than the alternatives, there are a lot of poignant aspects to both waiting to be discovered beyond the walls put up around themselves. And it's because those aspects were so well done, I find it easy to imagine that Morrigan and HoF have that high degree of dynamism in their relationship that you see with Geralt/Yen.
And finally, as was mentioned previously, that Geralt/Yen esque dynamic just feels a lot more true to life that the overly lovey dovey stuff, they know where the line is and how far they can push each others buttons, what is clearly said in jest, etc, while still having the capacity for the more intimate moments without the metaphorical "dance" between the two, like in the Last Wish quest. And I think that Morrigan had that with HoF from day 1, which is why its a shame they didn't play off it more in game, as she's one of the characters where the romance isn't just fluff, but can actually be part of a pivotal change for her character.
Yeah, it all does come down to trying to fill in the blanks/what I wished there had been more of in the game, when it comes to writing my fanfiction. The beauty of written fiction is that ultimately we can do whatever we want, no budget limitations, no technology limitations, etc, so it's really satisfying to take what we've been given and expand on it. With Wardens of the Grey, that I just started recently it's expanding on the story by adding more characters than what the game has, but I'm planning to take some ideas and add to the story of the game itself with new concepts, using characters that show up in later games, etc. But the best fanfictions I enjoy reading are definitely the ones that slip their way into the canon without disturbing the actual story too much.
Yeah, those are by preferred types too, but even then I find the desire to read such material is only really there if the source material feels inconclusive. For example, I enjoyed Geralt's adventures through the games and since it's wrapped up nicely with the closure I sought, I don't feel a great urge to fill any blanks or continue it further because I felt the game did a great job in that respect. I'm happy to let go because the story and character arcs feel complete. There's the "always leave them wanting more" adage, but eh, with DA's handling of this, the "more" is one half of that awesome pairing you set up being completely absent, which kind of sucks and begs for blanks to be filled in by necessity.
Getting back to the point, pre-Origins is fair game for me (maybe some stuff from the perspective of younger Morri and Cousland, prior to their meeting, or heck, maybe they did meet or almost meet at some point in the past.
It is a shame when old fanfics get invalidated by canon sequels, but eh, that's the risk you run. Just gotta make sure it doesn't bug you too much while you read it, though I have come across long fanfics that act as direct sequels to Origins before anything else came out and it's almost impossible to ignore that little voice in your head going "Well they're just being silly, that's not what happened at all." Especially if it's a fic that tries to go for a large plot, instead of something more toned down/slice of life. Which is why even if it's been proven non-canon, something like "Demons Within" works even knowing that the OGB is a boy and not a girl. What matters is the emotional aspect of the story is the focus, which is what we all ultimately crave more of. Sure a "Warden and Morrigan team up to defeat all the Reborn Old Gods" can be fun, but what I think most of us are looking for is a continuation of the emotional journey our Warden started with Morrigan. So even if the details of your story are proven wrong by sequels, the emotional aspect continues to ring true. Kind of like "Okay, so maybe they DIDN'T fight a conglomeration of all previous Old Gods absorbed into a previously unknown daughter of Flemeth, but that part where Morrigan and the Warden talked about abandonment and commitment issues was really good."
Yeah, I'd stay away from the bigger stuff for exactly that reason, interstitial stuff is better in cases like that imo. I suppose I just like to stick with stuff that I feel could conceivably happen, which more often than not means not straying too far from in game events into "Leliana's bakery" type territory. Nothing wrong with that, it's just not for me. The only time I deviate from that rule would be a case where the author of the original essentially blasphemed against a fandom by pulling a rocks fall, everyone died or Mass Effect 3 starchild type ending. When you reach such a point, where the author has tried so hard to be edgy and clever that they've left orbit and lost touch with reality (thankfully such instances are rare), then I'd accept a "corrective" work that goes completely against canon.
That reminds me that I never finished reading Demons Within. I have this weird thing where if I'm really enjoying something I don't want it to end, which occasionally manifests in my choosing not to finish certain media. Which is odd considering how much I like closure. Assuming it has a "good" ending (and assuming ximena finished it), I'll keep it as my backup plan for if BioWare disappoints me in the future.
There's also a certain level of appreciation from other fans when you don't sell out and instead create content for an underserved portion of the fanbase. It's working in a saturated market or being the lone voice in an underserved market. Definitely the better way to get attention when you think about it. Maybe the fandom in general won't read it, but a smaller group will be well aware of it. And even if I did decide to "sell out" as it were, I just don't have the same passion for, say "Alistair/Cousland or Cullen/Trevelyan" that I do for Morrigan/Cousland. So it would be harder for me to think of ideas, harder to write, harder to do justice to what people that do like the pairing enjoy, and ultimately would be a less satisfying product.
...he says while planning to do a large fic that includes romances with Alistair, Leliana, and Zevran for the larger crowd to enjoy. Well if it crashes and burns you'll know why.
Most definitely, the ability to produce quality material is definitely appreciated. As I said regards any perceived popularity contest- I wouldn't worry about it, if others don't get/appreciate it, well it's their loss. The good stuff finds its audience regardless.
At least for myself, in any game that has multiple outcomes, I'll tend to find a favourite and stick with it, although most games with sequels roll with a "true" ending, so usually that decision is made for you. So for me, that'd be Cousland with Morrigan with the DR performed and leaving with her in WH. As a consequence of that, all other worldstates become sort of segregated in my mind as "non-canon" to me at least - ie: they were nice "what if" scenarios. Hell, for me, after DAI, an Origins playthrough without all that potential Morrigan payoff later would just feel like a wasted playthrough at this point. No other gets that development on multiple levels and arguably none deserve it more than Morrigan when you consider her childhood. It was a great element to follow through on, how she doesn't want pity for it in Origins yet see in certain dialogue and banters it gnaws at her and eventually manifests in the ardent desire to not be her mother when it comes to raising her child. Hence why I'm not surprised to see it inspires some to craft work capitalising on it.
While there's merit to sticking with what you know and love, conversely, sometimes a change is good, if only to get the juices flowing. I recently wrote out a fair bit of how I thought a Morrigan/HoF reunion would look post DAI with a Cousland who didn't go with her. They bump into him after leaving the castle, Morrigan's still injured from her dragon battle and obviously Kieran has never met his father. It was an opportunity to draw out some of the emotions, thoughts and regrets compounded over time that wouldn't otherwise manifest. It was all nicely tied together by Leliana informing HoF in her communication that Morrigan and his kid are there, which gets Morrigan thinking about why/if Leliana is helping her out. Granted HoF missed that final battle but it really played in beautifully to the aftermath of events and Morrigan feeling introspective and whatnot. To have them meet when she's in that frame of mind, I enjoyed it.
And that's been interesting as a side exercise because you have those expressed feelings on Morri's side of wanting to meet him in the Adamant questlines if they aren't together post-WH and you also have Kieran in that instance who has been fatherless for all those years. Didn't want to get into that too much though since it's a short. Far from my preferred scenario, but it did allow an exploration of a side you wouldn't otherwise see and to test if those feelings were still there years later. Ending it with the three of them returning to join the feast and get reacquainted felt pretty nice, with Lel as a background figure sort of admiring her handiwork.
But yeah, roundabout way of saying that I think you need the passion for the endeavour you're setting out to achieve, whatever exact form it takes. If you're... faking it, it think that shows through in the end.
Though I do cheat a little by trying to think of ideas that would allow me to write Morri/Warden while also having a more popular pairing as part of the story. Like a story that is set in Inquisition and features a popular pairing for the Inquisitor but it's more a background while I focus entirely on Morrigan.
I suppose as a background element it works. Like I enjoyed the aside(s) you have with Cassandra but obviously were it to become a focal point, I'd probably like it less. I think a single, marked pairing better conveys the focus of the piece (if it indeed has a primary focus), though it depends on the work itself I suppose. But just to run with the thought for example, I'm not a fan of DA2 and its protagonist, so if a story were to list a DA2 pairing, it'd probably put me off from the outset. I dunno, to me, a highlighted pairing somewhat signifies a focal point, where perhaps none exists. But perhaps that's just me.
Caught up on a few more of your chapters, the one with HoF's letter was good, I enjoyed that quite a bit. A nice twist in the chapter with the old woman. There was a really good line in one of those chapters and I can't recall it. But something bizarre happened again. I'm working on something that started off a just a single one shot piece but has since acquired a life of its own (I wasn't just pissing Ash Wind off a while back without reason on the potential logistics and setup of Morrigan/HoF post-WH, it had a purpose). As part of said work, I wrote out a neat little chapter outline between Kieran and Leliana, involved him shapeshifting into a raven and she catches him spying on her. Then that segues into a chat and him wanting to hear some stories from and find out more about Lel, after finding his parents' tales of her differ quite wildly. THEN, I happened to read your chapter which involved a similar premise and had another hive mind moment. The start points differed but it was interesting how I also went to that same place and used a similar premise to get there. I'll probably drop some more detailed reviews on your doorstep when I get around to it, ideally before you finish it, it's been enjoyable so far (not fully caught up yet).
I wonder what Ariane and Finn's reaction was.
"Aww, look at that. I think they are making...wait, where are they going? Hey, wait!
He completely forgot we were here, didn't he?
WHAT ABOUT MY BOOK?!"
This isn't even funny anymore. This - the WH meeting from Ariane and Finn's POV is literally chapter 4 in what I'm working on. And that dialogue snippit is quite close in theme to a bit of what I have. Stop looking into my mind Morri thread!
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