16183 réponses à ce sujet

[blademaster7]

Master Shiori wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Not sure how I feel about the new DLC.

Although I can apreciate the humor of killing my companions as a Darkspawn, I can't really bring myself to harm Morrigan, Leliana, Zevran and all the rest.

It's a funny idea, but way overpriced for what it really gives.

I said it before, and I'll say it again.
Had this DLC been about a Disciple recently freed by the Architect prior to the events of Awakening, showing us the beginning of the darkspawn civil war and shedding light on the Architect and how he leads or guides his bretheren, then I would have gladly paid 10-15$ for it (depending on lenght).

Furthermore, rumours of an Alistair / Morrigan romance pissed me off.

Err, what rumours?!

Did I miss something?

I don't know anything about rumours, but, seeing both Alistair and Morrigan at the final batlle... well...

 Alternate reality or no, this must be a sick joke...

Modifié par blademaster7, 05 mai 2010 - 09:47 .

[pandymonium]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Had this DLC been about a Disciple recently freed by the Architect prior
to the events of Awakening, showing us the beginning of the darkspawn
civil war and shedding light on the Architect and how he leads or guides
his bretheren, then I would have gladly paid 10-15$ for it (depending
on lenght).

THIS. I couldn't have said it better myself.

When I saw the announcement, I clicked fully expecting to find out that we will be able to play as a newly Awakened darkspawn since I felt that we had very little interaction with the Disciples in the expac. The Architect had the most screen time and all he got was this:


Architect: I do not wish to be your enemy.
Warden: Oh. In that case, I welcome the opportunity to settle this in a civilized manne-
Architect: DRAGON THRALL TIEM!
Warden: What. Care to explain why you just did that?!
*The Architect is ignoring you*

20 minutes before the end of the game...
Architect: So we meet again. When last we met, I intended to explain myself.
Warden: No. You. Didn't. I was standing right there and you just ignored me.
Architect: Whatever. I need your help to defeat the Mother.
Warden: My help? Your power level is over 9000! You absolutely owned me with that
sleep rune, that other spell you used to collapse the tunnel was amazing, you can
float and stuff!
Architect: *sigh* Those powers are cutscene only.
Warden: Ah, very well then. You have an ally.
Mother: Then perhaps the Warden would like to hear how it was that the Father began the Blight?
Warden: Dude. Not cool.
Architect:

THE END

EDIT: Great thread btw. This Morrigan fangirl approves. <3

Modifié par pandymonium, 05 mai 2010 - 10:08 .

[Master Shiori]

blademaster7 wrote...


I don't know anything about rumours, but, seeing both Alistair and Morrigan at the final batlle... well...

 Alternate reality or no, this must be a sick joke...

Not so strange to see Morrigan there. Even in alternate reality she would still be after the God child and Alistair would be the prime candidate for a father since Flemeth would save him at Ostagar.

And no worries, Alistair and Morrigan might enjoy hate sex, but as far as a romance goes it would be a complete disaster.

[Terra_Ex]

double post

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 05 mai 2010 - 10:35 .

[Terra_Ex]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
Now that would be a clever DLC.  Play
another character that shows up later in a sequel.  I like that idea. 
I'm surprised stuff like that doesn't happen in DA:O DLCs. Much better
approach than giving the impression that they're churning out so-so
content that, in the end, doesn't really matter, only to add to the
bottom line.  I'd rather wait 2-3 years for a hi-quality sequel
than get soured on a game because of lackluster content. 

Precisely.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I said it before, and I'll say it again.
Had this DLC been about a Disciple recently freed by the Architect prior to the events of Awakening, showing us the beginning of the darkspawn civil war and shedding light on the Architect and how he leads or guides his bretheren, then I would have gladly paid 10-15$ for it (depending on lenght).

Furthermore, rumours of an Alistair / Morrigan romance
pissed me off.

Whoa, careful now, you're actually suggesting Bioware release a worthwhile piece of DLC - that's just crazy
I agree  this could have formed an excellent sidestory that actually augmented the core storyline and added some much needed depth to the darkspawn forces - an opportunity to step behind enemy lines... As it stands this looks a typical WOW raid setup - go in, slaughter everything... I will however be very interested to find out the length of this "chronicle".

"What if your character had died in the Joining ceremony, and the Grey Wardens marched under Alistair's command instead?"

Well, Ferelden would have been royally screwed as good ol' Alistair stood about nervously waiting for someone to give direction to his now meaningless existence. Clearly some liberties must have been taken with Alistair's personality if he's survived till the game's climax without the guiding hand of the warden.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 05 mai 2010 - 11:09 .

[blademaster7]

Terra_Ex wrote...
"what if your character had died in the Joining ceremony, and the Grey Wardens marched under Alistair's command instead?"

Well, Ferelden would have been royally screwed as good ol' Alistair stood about nervously waiting for someone to give direction to his now meanigless existence.

Him and Morrigan would probably end up killing each other on their way to Lothering...

Or maybe Morrigan will restrain herself and leave, hoping that reinforcements from Orlais will arrive soon. Alistair arrives in Lothering alone, and gets killed by the bandits.

The end.

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...

I'm willing to bet that we won't see Darkspawn in DA2.

My guess is that maybe they'll be put in a similar role as the Geth in ME2- still present and still an enemy, but maybe just second billing. But so long as we're still a Warden and still dealing with the Old Gods, there is still plenty to learn about the Darkspawn IMO. I know a lot of people are kind of growing weary of them, but I think thats only because of how Bioware is just treating them like your generic horde/Zerg enemy. I feel like there is lots of untapped potential with them as villains yet.

pandymonium wrote...

When I saw the announcement, I
clicked fully expecting to find out that we will be able to play as a
newly Awakened darkspawn since I felt that we had very little
interaction with the Disciples in the expac. The Architect had the most
screen time and all he got was this: [snip]

Wahaha- like your little story there. I completely agree- I just feel like the Architect as a villain got shafted in Awakening. He's in it for what, 2 scenes and then you can kill him? Bioware needs to brush up on their villains- we need a good one of the caliber of Irenicus for DA2. Its like Bioware is stuck with the whole "Give em' one sympathetic conflicted villain and one thats pure evil"- Origins had Loghain as the sympathetic villain and the Archdemon (or Howe too I guess) was the pure evil, mustache twirling bad guy. Then Awakening gives you the Architect as your morally grey villain while the Mother has no redeemable features. Thats one thing I liked about the Architect in the Calling- he was morally ambiguous, but from his point of view what his plan called for (the genocide of Thedas through the Joining and making Warden-Darkspawn hybrids) was a perfectly acceptable means to an end.

Terra_Ex wrote...
"What if your character had died in the Joining ceremony, and the
Grey Wardens marched under Alistair's command instead?"

Well,
Ferelden would have been royally screwed as good ol' Alistair stood
about nervously waiting for someone to give direction to his now
meaningless existence. Clearly some liberties must have been taken with
Alistair's personality if he's survived till the game's climax without
the guiding hand of the warden.

I love little "what if" type scenarios. What I'm wondering with this DLC though is do we really get filled in on whats going on in this alternate universe or are we just kind of plopped in Denerim and told to go "RAWR! KILL!" and thats that. It would be nice to think that they'll fill us in on why certain people are there or what they're doing (like who is adventuring around with Alistair, why is Morrigan hanging around, that sort of thing) or if we get a cool cutscene when the darkspawn ostensibly destroy Denerim-  but I'm thinking that might be asking too much for a $5 DLC.

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
Now that would be a clever DLC.  Play another
character that shows up later in a sequel.  I like that idea. 
I'm
surprised stuff like that doesn't happen in DA:O DLCs. Much better approach
than giving the impression that they're churning out so-so content
that, in the end, doesn't really matter, only to add to the bottom
line.  I'd rather wait 2-3 years for a hi-quality sequel than get
soured on a game because of lackluster content. 

Completely agree- I just feel like the DLC so far has kind of been a squandered opportunity. You could conceivably do some neat stuff with episodic content or do things that lay the groundwork for DA2 or move the story forward but all we've gotten are some ok retroactive quests, some goofy gifts, a decent ex-pack and now a little alternate history. Its there if you want it, but at what point does it come off as just milking the cash cow until its all dried up? I get that its a business and DLC is probably an easy way to make some $$$ but its like you said Barbarossa, throwing all of this little stuff out there kind of oversaturates one's urge for more DA. Or maybe thats the point- throw out ho-hum non story based DLC so everyone is clamoring for the story based content in the next full game or ex-pack? Yeah I don't think so...

[BeautyoftheBeast]

pandymonium wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Had this DLC been about a Disciple recently freed by the Architect prior
to the events of Awakening, showing us the beginning of the darkspawn
civil war and shedding light on the Architect and how he leads or guides
his bretheren, then I would have gladly paid 10-15$ for it (depending
on lenght).

THIS. I couldn't have said it better myself.

When I saw the announcement, I clicked fully expecting to find out that we will be able to play as a newly Awakened darkspawn since I felt that we had very little interaction with the Disciples in the expac. The Architect had the most screen time and all he got was this:


Architect: I do not wish to be your enemy.
Warden: Oh. In that case, I welcome the opportunity to settle this in a civilized manne-
Architect: DRAGON THRALL TIEM!
Warden: What. Care to explain why you just did that?!
*The Architect is ignoring you*

20 minutes before the end of the game...
Architect: So we meet again. When last we met, I intended to explain myself.
Warden: No. You. Didn't. I was standing right there and you just ignored me.
Architect: Whatever. I need your help to defeat the Mother.
Warden: My help? Your power level is over 9000! You absolutely owned me with that
sleep rune, that other spell you used to collapse the tunnel was amazing, you can
float and stuff!
Architect: *sigh* Those powers are cutscene only.
Warden: Ah, very well then. You have an ally.
Mother: Then perhaps the Warden would like to hear how it was that the Father began the Blight?
Warden: Dude. Not cool.
Architect:

THE END

EDIT: Great thread btw. This Morrigan fangirl approves. <3

This. Made of epic win.

In an alternate reality where Alistair was leading and my PC was dead- It wouldn't have been called Dragon Age: Origins. It would have been called Dragon Age: Origins... Until about 30 minutes later when your character died and someone else takes over!

[TheBlackBaron]

pandymonium wrote...
Architect: I do not wish to be your enemy.
Warden: Oh. In that case, I welcome the opportunity to settle this in a civilized manne-
Architect: DRAGON THRALL TIEM!
Warden: What. Care to explain why you just did that?!
*The Architect is ignoring you*

20 minutes before the end of the game...
Architect: So we meet again. When last we met, I intended to explain myself.
Warden: No. You. Didn't. I was standing right there and you just ignored me.
Architect: Whatever. I need your help to defeat the Mother.
Warden: My help? Your power level is over 9000! You absolutely owned me with that
sleep rune, that other spell you used to collapse the tunnel was amazing, you can
float and stuff!
Architect: *sigh* Those powers are cutscene only.
Warden: Ah, very well then. You have an ally.
Mother: Then perhaps the Warden would like to hear how it was that the Father began the Blight?
Warden: Dude. Not cool.
Architect:

This is a frustratingly accurate represenation of the Architect's screen time in Awakening.

Anyhow, I personally don't think I'll be getting Darkspawn Chronicles, but it is in an interesting concept all the same. Particularly since I feel that, in all honesty, Alistair comes with a backstory more suting for the male lead of an epic dark fantasy story than the Warden him/herself.

I'malso not going to get worked up over it because what I'm really waiting for is news on the February 2011 title, which probably won't come until E3 in about another month.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 06 mai 2010 - 01:07 .

[Brockololly]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

I'malso not going to get worked up over it because what I'm really waiting for is news on the February 2011 title, which probably won't come until E3 in about another month.

Yeah, I'll only be miffed if E3 comes and goes without any news on any real DA sequels/expansions. So long as the DLC is just going to be inconsequential "what-if" scenarios and little side quests, I'm not going to be too interested.

Oh and here is a little interview and trailer for "Darkspawn Chronicles"- It looks kind of cool but I don't know. I think I'm too much of a wimp to go about killing all of the old companions. So congratulations Bioware, you made Origins so emotionally engaging that I'm not going to buy your new DLC because I couldn't stand to kill off the companions!

http://www.gamespot....2&mode=previews

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

I'malso not going to get worked up over it because what I'm really waiting for is news on the February 2011 title, which probably won't come until E3 in about another month.

Yeah, I'll only be miffed if E3 comes and goes without any news on any real DA sequels/expansions. So long as the DLC is just going to be inconsequential "what-if" scenarios and little side quests, I'm not going to be too interested.

Oh and here is a little interview and trailer for "Darkspawn Chronicles"- It looks kind of cool but I don't know. I think I'm too much of a wimp to go about killing all of the old companions. So congratulations Bioware, you made Origins so emotionally engaging that I'm not going to buy your new DLC because I couldn't stand to kill off the companions!

http://www.gamespot....2&mode=previews

Yes, killing my companions is what I can't bring myself to do.

Otherwise, I find the whole idea behind the DLC fun, just not something I'd like to see continued in the future.

I'm happier with DLC that provide me with extra adventures for my party like RtO or Shale DLC, especially if they give me more insight into the events and characters from Origins (think Cailan's letters to Empress Celene).

Modifié par Master Shiori, 06 mai 2010 - 08:10 .

[Barbarossa2010]

Brockololly wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

I'm willing to bet that we won't see Darkspawn in DA2.

My guess is that maybe they'll be put in a similar role as the Geth in ME2- still present and still an enemy, but maybe just second billing. But so long as we're still a Warden and still dealing with the Old Gods, there is still plenty to learn about the Darkspawn IMO. I know a lot of people are kind of growing weary of them, but I think thats only because of how Bioware is just treating them like your generic horde/Zerg enemy. I feel like there is lots of untapped potential with them as villains yet.

Well with the Geth, we have found out that there is a faction (the orthodox), for lack of a better term, that we actually have some philosophical common ground with; and of course, the adversarial faction (the heretics) that, in the end, are a common enemy of each, that have forced us to forge a (at least) temporary alliance, to defeat in mutual self-interest.

This is a story element that works very good in science fiction.  Figuring out how a former adversary can become the "enemy of my enemy," and thus an ally, is fairly challenging and can always be an excellent story arc surprise if done well.  Look at the video games (well, those that I've played at least) that have done it, or have partially done it:

HALO:  the Elites were adversaries for two games then, viola! Master Chief and the Arbiter (a high Elite) in the third game MUST ally with each other in order to defeat a greater mutual threat.  The player actually plays the Arbiter for a sequence of the game (**hint**, **hint** BW).  Heretic is a heavily used term in the story, but it is mostly reserved for use against Master Chief and those who so not possess the beliefs of the "Covenant."  I would like "Chronicles" to have played a freed Disciple as has been said, but that appears an opportunity squandered.

Gears of War:  Don't know how this will turn out yet, but I'm sure in the third game we'll see.  You have the regular Locust and then you see them fighting the "Lambent" Locusts during certain sequences in the first two games.  Internal civl war it would appear.  Does the Queen seek the assistance and an alliance with the COG in the final story or not?  Hard to say.  Although, I will say, you are hard pressed to find anything redeemable in the Queen's Horde.

Mass Effect:  Orthodox Geth vs. Heretic Geth.  If the Geth do not become allies with Shepard, and the Quarians for that matter, to either re-write or destroy the Heretics, I would be very surprised.  This almost seems like it must happen.  (Yet to see how this turns out).

Dragon Age:  Awakened Darkspawn/Disciples vs. Mindless Darkspawn.  (Yet to see how this turns out).

These are just quick snippets off the top of my head of the concept and I'm sure there are many more.  It just works great for a story arc.

I have always liked the idea of the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" (Wrex actually cites this when you recruit him in ME1).  I've never failed to be surprised, or at least been excited by the prospect of better understanding a former adversary, when encountered in stories.

[Master Shiori]

The "awakened" Darkspawn and the Architect were ceirtainly interesting.



It will be fun to see how their plans develope in future games. Right now they're more a liability then an actual ally.

[Barbarossa2010]

BUMP...



...but then again its probably a waste of time...I mean really, how can game killing glitches, fumbled story lines, and fan disappointment compete with the more urgent requirements of developing and releasing bizarre (or was that 'bazaar') DLC?

[Barbarossa2010]

Which brings me to my next point...



Does EA actually own Bioware? The current inventory of DA DLC would seem to suggest so.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Which brings me to my next point...

Does EA actually own Bioware? The current inventory of DA DLC would seem to suggest so.

And EA is owned by the whims of the majority of paying customers. 
Didn't Tocqueville say that majority rule meant the death of Art?
 

[Barbarossa2010]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Which brings me to my next point...

Does EA actually own Bioware? The current inventory of DA DLC would seem to suggest so.

And EA is owned by the whims of the majority of paying customers. 
Didn't Tocqueville say that majority rule meant the death of Art?
 

Excellent point Smithers...and yes I'm rubbing my fingertips together.

And democracy is the truest expression of majority rule..Wasn't it Churchill who said "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."  Elitist I know, but funny as hell.

[Brockololly]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Which brings me to my next point...

Does EA actually own Bioware? The current inventory of DA DLC would seem to suggest so.

And EA is owned by the whims of the majority of paying customers. 
Didn't Tocqueville say that majority rule meant the death of Art?
 

Excellent point Smithers...and yes I'm rubbing my fingertips together.

And democracy is the truest expression of majority rule..Wasn't it Churchill who said "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."  Elitist I know, but funny as hell.

Yup- Bioware has been assimilated by EA, they are one and the same now. I think Bioware is officially EA's RPG division or some such nonsense.

On a somewhat unrelated note- I hate the direction most games are going. I just played Splinter Cell Conviction and that is like the epitome of how games are (IMO) being dumbed down. I loved the old SPlinter Cell games and then they release COnviction and besides the fact that its not a stealth game anymore its like one big QTE. I just hate it how it seems most games treat the player like a ADHD addled lobotomized chimp- hey you know I can actually shoot the gun too, you don't need to do it for me game. I've said it before but I like challenging games that have a learning curve- unfortunately it seems as if most games are being catered to the lowest common denominator now.

Thats partly why Awakening and some of the DLC concerns me. Awakening's dialogue was lacking to say the least and just how lacking in character development it was makes me wonder if Bioware thinks they can cut down on that sort of expository story heavy material and inject more "WHoA! Cool bro, I chopped off the darkspawnz' head! EXTREME!" stuff in the games to appeal to the lobotomized chimp crowd. I sure hope not but that seems to be the trend I've noticed in recent games anyways.

This sums up my thoughts pretty much: http://kotaku.com/55...as-made-in-2010

[Master Shiori]

While I agree that Awakening was severly lacking in both character interaction and development, I'm not sure if that was due to a lack of funds and time or because Bioware really thought the new system would work better.



Origins had a ton of character dialogue and development (Morrigan being a prime example), but the amount of money and time needed to get all that done must have been enourmous and probably too huge a bite for an expansion to swallow, given it's limited budget.



My hope is that DA2 will be more like Origins in this regard.

[Metalunatic]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

BUMP...

...but then again its probably a waste of time...I mean really, how can game killing glitches, fumbled story lines, and fan disappointment compete with the more urgent requirements of developing and releasing bizarre (or was that 'bazaar') DLC?

Don't BW have differen't people working on bug fixing?

[bl00dsh0t]

@brock

Hehe that article did indeed sum it all up quite neatly. While multiplayers games get more and more fleshed out and streamlined in a potitive sense the single player campaings just get easier and easier. I mean what the hell was the "easy" mode there for anyways? Now normal is easy, easy is doable with 20 beers in your system and hard is half as hard as what normal once was xD



Still I think your judgement on awakening is not really taking into account that if it had been expanded to the length of origins the amount of character development would have been substantial. Sure the new conversation system has plenty of flaws but they did increase a lot of the party banter in terms of volume which did help me to laugh quite a bit at times. Its not all bad but if you compare a 10-15 hour expansions to a 40-100 hour game then of course character development will fal short.



What is left to hope for is that they finally give us a highest difficulty level where the only way to win is by having a very good build and mix of characters and intense microing of the characters instead of a slight upping of the number of spells the enemies use and the amount of hp/resistances they get.



I also grabbed conviction recently as a big fan of the splinter cell games and I actually felt it was a neat evolution of the game, if a bit too easy for series veterans. But I do recall that one thing that made me rather annoyed in the original series was that this elite agent was incredibly agile but completely useless in combat. That they fixed but overdid with the execute funtction but except for that it did make it more interesting to fade in and out of combat while keeping it immensely rewarding to take out all opponents stealthily. Still the length was bloody unacceptable, and that my favourite foe: The security camera, was nerfed to **** by clearly showing its field of vision also made it too damn easy on normal at least.



Well we just gotta face it: We get more immersive games at the expense of them becoming too easy and fluid and too damn short. All i want is that 10hr plus game that can be turned into a 20 hour game by tweaking the difficulty for us more experienced players, is that too much to ask?

[Brockololly]

bl00dsh0t wrote...

@brock
Hehe that article did indeed sum it all up quite neatly. While multiplayers games get more and more fleshed out and streamlined in a potitive sense the single player campaings just get easier and easier. I mean what the hell was the "easy" mode there for anyways? Now normal is easy, easy is doable with 20 beers in your system and hard is half as hard as what normal once was xD

True, true true- I love me some multiplayer but it seems to me that devs focus more on multiplayer and less on singleplayer almost as a means to try and limit piracy. Its just that for me, outside of games that are explicitly focused on multiplayer like Left 4 Dead, Team Fortress or Battlefield, its like devs try to shove multiplayer in games even when its not really needed (Bioshock 2). Its far easier to pirate a singleplayer game than a multiplayer online game, right? So hey lets just throw in multiplayer to limit piracy! And lets not get on the subject of DRM- bleh.

bl00dsh0t wrote...
Still I think your judgement on awakening is not really taking into account that if it had been expanded to the length of origins the amount of character development would have been substantial. Sure the new conversation system has plenty of flaws but they did increase a lot of the party banter in terms of volume which did help me to laugh quite a bit at times. Its not all bad but if you compare a 10-15 hour expansions to a 40-100 hour game then of course character development will fal short.

Thats the thing with Awakening. Sure if it had been polished up some more and maybe expanded on more, it would have been better, but at least with Awakening's dialogue system a longer game would only have been more tedious IMO. I'm just thinking about it this way- I found it tedious as hell to try and scavenger hunt for the little dialogue objects in Awakening. Now try to imagine having to do that on a bigger game the size of Origins? No thanks.

And as far as the banter goes, I love it but have mixed feelings about it at the same time. There definitely seemed to be more of it in Awakening at least proportionally to the amount of one on one dialogue the PC can have with any given companion. But IMO, the banter should only act as a supplementary means of characterization, while I felt like in Awakening due to the clunky conversation system, the banter ended up being one of the primary ways you'd get the companions to say anything. I just think that the one on one conversations between companions and the PC shouls be the primary means of character development with the banter just there as a means to add some color to the companions- in Awakening it seemed like the other way around. And thats not to mention how repetitive some of the banter got- Yes, Anders I realize you find tatoos on women very attractive for the 1,000,000th time.

bl00dsh0t wrote...

I also grabbed conviction recently as a big fan of the splinter cell games and I actually felt it was a neat evolution of the game, if a bit too easy for series veterans. But I do recall that one thing that made me rather annoyed in the original series was that this elite agent was incredibly agile but completely useless in combat. That they fixed but overdid with the execute funtction but except for that it did make it more interesting to fade in and out of combat while keeping it immensely rewarding to take out all opponents stealthily. Still the length was bloody unacceptable, and that my favourite foe: The security camera, was nerfed to **** by clearly showing its field of vision also made it too damn easy on normal at least.

Well we just gotta face it: We get more immersive games at the expense of them becoming too easy and fluid and too damn short. All i want is that 10hr plus game that can be turned into a 20 hour game by tweaking the difficulty for us more experienced players, is that too much to ask?

Yeah, I  get what Conviction was trying to do and its not terrible or anything, but it just didn't feel like a Splinter Cell game. Its kind of like how XCOM is being made into an FPS- why even bother calling it XCOM at that point? I think Yahtzee's review of Conviction pretty much sums up my feelings; you're not actually controlling Sam Fisher you're just controlling a little man riding on Sam Fisher's back. ( Here is the link to the review:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1684-Splinter-Cell-Conviction)

I'm hoping Bioware can prove me wrong, but I'd wager DA2 is "streamlined" to be more accessible and thats its significantly shorter than DAO. I'd love to be wrong but you just don't see many old school 80+ hour non-sandbox RPGs out there now...

Modifié par Brockololly, 07 mai 2010 - 03:11 .

[Terra_Ex]

Brockololly wrote...


True, true true- I love me some multiplayer but it seems to me that devs focus more on multiplayer and less on singleplayer almost as a means to try and limit piracy. Its just that for me, outside of games that are explicitly focused on multiplayer like Left 4 Dead, Team Fortress or Battlefield, its like devs try to shove multiplayer in games even when its not really needed (Bioshock 2). Its far easier to pirate a singleplayer game than a multiplayer online game, right? So hey lets just throw in multiplayer to limit piracy! And lets not get on the subject of DRM- bleh.

I share your concerns about the increasing focus on multiplayer. I personally despised that they injected story elements into Bioshock 2's multiplayer, primarily because for me - serious story progression & multiplayer just do not work together - I can't get into a game if you have people behaving like idiots online. Whatever the reasoning behind it the infactuation with multiplayer and co-op is definitely eroding the single player experience across all genres.

Brockololly wrote...

And as far as the banter goes, I love it but have mixed feelings about it at the same time. There definitely seemed to be more of it in Awakening at least proportionally to the amount of one on one dialogue the PC can have with any given companion. But IMO, the banter should only act as a supplementary means of characterization, while I felt like in Awakening due to the clunky conversation system, the banter ended up being one of the primary ways you'd get the companions to say anything. I just think that the one on one conversations between companions and the PC shouls be the primary means of character development with the banter just there as a means to add some color to the companions- in Awakening it seemed like the other way around. And thats not to mention how repetitive some of the banter got- Yes, Anders I realize you find tatoos on women very attractive for the 1,000,000th time.

Completely agree, seemed to be a classic example of trying to streamline a staple of the genre into something that'll appeal to the masses.

Brockololly wrote...

bl00dsh0t wrote...

I also grabbed conviction recently as a big fan of the splinter cell games and I actually felt it was a neat evolution of the game, if a bit too easy for series veterans. But I do recall that one thing that made me rather annoyed in the original series was that this elite agent was incredibly agile but completely useless in combat. That they fixed but overdid with the execute funtction but except for that it did make it more interesting to fade in and out of combat while keeping it immensely rewarding to take out all opponents stealthily. Still the length was bloody unacceptable, and that my favourite foe: The security camera, was nerfed to **** by clearly showing its field of vision also made it too damn easy on normal at least.

Well we just gotta face it: We get more immersive games at the expense of them becoming too easy and fluid and too damn short. All i want is that 10hr plus game that can be turned into a 20 hour game by tweaking the difficulty for us more experienced players, is that too much to ask?

Yeah, I  get what Conviction was trying to do and its not terrible or anything, but it just didn't feel like a Splinter Cell game. Its kind of like how XCOM is being made into an FPS- why even bother calling it XCOM at that point? I think Yahtzee's review of Conviction pretty much sums up my feelings; you're not actually controlling Sam Fisher you're just controlling a little man riding on Sam Fisher's back. ( Here is the link to the review:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1684-Splinter-Cell-Conviction)

I'm hoping Bioware can prove me wrong, but I'd wager DA2 is "streamlined" to be more accessible and thats its significantly shorter than DAO. I'd love to be wrong but you just don't see many old school 80+ hour non-sandbox RPGs out there now...

Yahtzee hates pretty much everything, seems to be part of his appeal  I'm of the opinion that Splinter Cell has been getting progressively worse as the series went on - I opted out after Double Agent but I may give Conviction a try - though your comments regarding game length really do concern me. There's a lot of games now that while released a full price take 10hrs~ to complete, cinematic experience or not, that isn't value for money imo. I've taken to putting off buying games like Splinter Cell at their initial release as they tend to drop in price fairly quickly, which offsets the gripe about game length somewhat. Lack of difficulty has a symbiotic relationship with streamlining for the masses - many sequels have their difficulty watered down and even cranking up the difficulty does little to remedy the situation.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 07 mai 2010 - 04:29 .

[Master Shiori]

Err, how did we get offtopic here?

Morri finds this discusion boring:

Modifié par Master Shiori, 07 mai 2010 - 07:40 .

[Barbarossa2010]

As probably the most negatively vocal poster on one particular subject in this thread, I feel the need to clarify my position here.

First of all, I'm starting to come around to all of the thread arguments regarding multi-player. God knows, there's already enough out there on the market for those who want it and I definitely have partaken in my fair share of what's being hocked out there. 

But, I can definitely pass on multi-player for DA and (gulp) also for ME, although my idea for MP for ME would be DLC, downloaded only if interested.  But again, I can let it go.  It was merely an amusement of mine in an attempt to sucker my hardcore FPS/TPS freinds into an RPG; not to mention, it would be fun to make an arena with freinds and knock hell out of each other (or co-op and knock hell out of AI enemies) in an ME setting.  But most MP opponents are right, those of us who want it can play Gears or HALO or whatever to have that kind of hyperactive, trash-talking fun.

If there is a big push out there for MP or dumbing down RPGs, I'm not to be counted among those who desire it.  With the Farmville and Social City crapola on Facebook, there might be a high level industry move afoot to dumb big titled games down to the lowest common denominator in order to gain a casual gaming audience to substantially bolster bottom lines.  I do not support that.  I'll go on record and say I definitley don't want that to happen to RPGs, especially BWs offerings.

I have been very critical of certain aspects of the DA storyline and have actually used the word "populist," to describe a certain dissatisfaction with one particular part of it, but I'm really only looking at a nip here and tuck there, a bit more editing oversight perhaps, but definitely not an overhaul of the genre. I love the complexity of RPGs now that I've gotten used to it.  I've really taken to it, and have learned to nurture my inner nerd.  I would hate to see DA dumbed-down in complexity and depth.  I already feel that ME2 was a little too heavy with the axe on the stats management and RPG elements of the game...Wow, talking about irony, I never thought I would say that.  In all honesty, I would hate to see that trend continue. 

What can I say? I'm the epitome of human duality and contradiction.

Sorry, just felt the need to clarify.