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[BurningLizard]

I'm just tired of dealing with mega-Tsunderes where you never get to the inner core part, how am I know there is even a difference between them and just a regular old jerk?

 

I agree in the case of Morrigan there is more complexity though.

Yeah, I normally don't like Tsunderes myself, but for some reason I really liked Morrigan for that reason. Guess she's my exception. If done right they can be fun.

 

It is because of the tsundere aspect that I decided not to romance Isabela in DA2.

I had already done the "cynical woman doesn't believe in love" shtick with Morrigan, so why bother?

I lie. I have two exceptions, Morrigan and Isabela. Hmm...I may have a type that I didn't realize I had.

 

But yeah, I can see wanting something different in a new game.

[Ash Wind]

Both are cynical in their view of Love, but both bring it from opposite ends of the spectrum, which at the very lease makes them different in that respect.

 

Morrigan was raised by Flemeth in near-seclusion for most of her life, taught Love is a weakness and to shun personal attachment. She was raised to be anti-social for a reason. She was brought up to be a self-reliant lone wolf, friendship is something she never thought she wanted, or needed (until she found out about Flemeth’s plan, as she explains it.) She has little experience with interaction with others and is very socially awkward.

 

Isabella’s disdain for Love seems to come more from experience and personal failings with attachment, if I recall correctly it’s intimated in DA2 that she was once married, and it ended badly. She’s a social butterfly to a certain extent who gets along far better with companions (save the few who refer to her as a ******) and is less socially awkward than Morrigan, using the pretense of having fun as an excuse to not getting closer, as opposed to Morrigan who uses lack of experience and seeing no real benefit from getting close.

 

In short, Isabela having loved too much, and having lost too many times; contrasted by Morrigan, as having no real concept of love. Tsunderes? Yes technically both probably are, but is that any different from many other characters who start severely disliking the PC but eventually come to be BFFs, like Zevran, Shale, Nathaniel... when you first meet Wynn in the Tower she threatens to strike you down, etc. etc. 

 

Yes, they can be viewed as similar Tsunderes romances, and the theme's of earning their trust are similar as they share similar feelings toward attachment, but polar opposites on how they came to be that way. I've enjoyed both romances, breaking down their walls, though similar, but knowing the differentiating back stories makes it different IMHO.

 

I find it more interesting tearing down Morrigan's walls, than sweet talking Leliana, giving her a few gifts then finding out she's in love.

[Qun00]

I've been second guessing myself about the DR.

Not because of the age old argument that the risks are unknown at the time, but because it seems wrong to use a newborn child as a mere tool to satisfy Morrigan's fascination with old magic.

Sigh... but at the same time, you get a lot of great content as the player. Awakening, Witch Hunt and tons of romance related dialogue in Inquisition (including a far better cutscene with Flemeth).

I'm torn between doing what is right and what is fun.

[SgtSteel91]

I've been second guessing myself about the DR.

Not because of the age old argument that the risks are unknown at the time, but because it seems wrong to use a newborn child as a mere tool to satisfy Morrigan's fascination with old magic.

Sigh... but at the same time, you get a lot of great content as the player. Awakening, Witch Hunt and tons of romance related dialogue in Inquisition (including a far better cutscene with Flemeth).

I'm torn between doing what is right and what is fun.

 

Do the Ritual, Morrigan and Warden come to regret forcing Kieran to shoulder the Old God Soul and resolve to be the best parents they can be to him and protect/support him the best they can.

 

That pretty much what happens come Inquisition.

[SgtSteel91]

And really, what is a child but a tool to carry on your genes/memes beyond your lifespan?

[Qun00]

Maybe that isn't the most appropriate time to be metagaming.

And no, it isn't the same thing. We aren't unthinking animals, so nobody actually has children for the sole purpose of passing on their genes.

[SgtSteel91]

Maybe that isn't the most appropriate time to be metagaming.

And no, it isn't the same thing. We aren't unthinking animals, so nobody actually has children for the sole purpose of passing on their genes.

 

Second post I was kidding, but really do what's fun and makes for an interesting story for you. That was the point of my first post; to me there's a lot more interesting stuff going on with Old God Souls Kieran than otherwise, shown in the game and what I can metagame/headcanon with.

[Aren]

to me there's a lot more interesting stuff going on with Old God Souls Kieran than otherwise, shown in the game and what I can metagame/headcanon with.

What interesting stuff the cop out of DAI?

By now i saw plenty of stories with mortals who share spark of "divine beings" especially from Bioware and franky they are starting to become tiresome.

 But the funny thing is that the "mysterious" OGB isn't' interesting like  human Kieran   to me.

[Yaroub]

 

 But the funny thing is that the "mysterious" OGB isn't' interesting like  human Kieran   to me.

 

 

True it isn't - But that because bioware made it so! Aside from the few ambiguities lines he delivered and the rest was disappointing.

 

I kept hoping that me warden will pop out during the cut-scene with Flemeth. Alas it wasn't so.

[Aren]

True it isn't - But that because bioware made it so! Aside from the few ambiguities lines he delivered and the rest was disappointing.

 

I kept hoping that me warden will pop out during the cut-scene with Flemeth. Alas it wasn't so.

Yes Bioware could have done it better,it was not plot critical because it was an option but they could have done something more like explain the conflict of two souls being into one person ,that sort of thing.

I compared the two in terms of personality so i went to see his conversations (for every race and every dialogues options)  and is always the same kind of response delivered through a cryptic demeanor which ultimately feel shallow at least to me compared to the non OGB version.

Not a smile,not a joke there is no feeling of emotions from the OGB compared to the other one.

[Yaroub]

 

I compared the two in terms of personality so i went to see his conversations (for every race and every dialogues options)  and is always the same kind of response delivered through a cryptic demeanor which ultimately feel shallow at least to me compared to the non OGB version.

Not a smile,not a joke there is no feeling of emotions from the OGB compared to the other one.

 

 

OGB was utter crap, yes.

[Yaroub]

 

Yes Bioware could have done it better,it was not plot critical because it was an option but they could have done something more like explain the conflict of two souls being into one person ,that sort of thing.

 

Even though am not that much a fan of "the rule of cool", I wouldn't have mind if it was implemented with kieran.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

I'm kind of glad that they handwaved the OGB in DA:I. I'm also very glad that they had Morrigan mellow out and become more human. It wouldn't have been realistic if my Warden had no affect on her personality.

[Qun00]

Second post I was kidding, but really do what's fun and makes for an interesting story for you. That was the point of my first post; to me there's a lot more interesting stuff going on with Old God Souls Kieran than otherwise, shown in the game and what I can metagame/headcanon with.

There is just one more problem. People who do the US and let Alistair stay with the GWs (as I am considering doing) have to watch Awhora delivering the speech at the hero's funeral.

That seems so... wrong.

[Brockololly]

I'm kind of glad that they handwaved the OGB in DA:I. I'm also very glad that they had Morrigan mellow out and become more human. It wouldn't have been realistic if my Warden had no affect on her personality.

Problem is that Morrigan acts the same way in Inquisition regardless of how your Warden dealt with her in Origins. Her acting a bit more mellowed out and mature makes sense if your Warden romanced her or was kind to her and she winds up with Kieran. But that line of thinking doesn't hold up as much when you realize that Default World state Morrigan or even a version of Morrigan that was treated like garbage by the Warden and stabbed at the end of Witch Hunt still acts in the same mellowed out way in Inquisition.

That's one of my big disappointments with how they handled her in Inquisition. I wish there was a little more variability in terms of her attitude based on the past. If you romanced and had Kieran with her, I think her character development mostly works, maybe with the huge glaring exception of her behavior at the Well of Sorrows.


All told, I think how they implemented Kieran was better than nothing. It definitely seems like they maybe had more grandiose plans for the OGB at some point and Inquisition was maybe the writers simplifying things and basically writing that loose thread out of DA. Which sucks, since even at the end of Inquisition they never gave any real solid rationale for Morrigan wanting the OGB in the first place beyond their insistence on giving Morrigan really vague notions of wanting to preserve ancient knowledge for no reason besides preserving it.

[Yaroub]

since even at the end of Inquisition they never gave any real solid rationale for Morrigan wanting the OGB in the first place beyond their insistence on giving Morrigan really vague notions of wanting to preserve ancient knowledge for no reason besides preserving it.

 

I don't remember that much from Inquisition. But, the general thought I had that after given birth to Kieran she lost all interest in pursuing whatever her plan for OGB was, something about raising him in healthy environment, not exposing him to danger and such. Which is yeah basically hand waving the issue, actually the whole OGB was hand waved in a bad manner.

 

In another topic. The cure that the Hof is after is based on Morrigan info, and that info was given as a gift at the end of witch hunt right? "The thing of great interest" she left is always received in all world states... I could've sworn that I saw a dev confirming that...or not  .

[Qun00]

In Witch Hunt, she says something about bringing a new age and how "change is what sets people free". It definitely was meant to be something big.

I've tried asking Gaider on Twitter, but the guy is about as sociable as DAO Morrigan.

[JJ Likeaprayer]

Is this the Morrigan "appreciation" threat or?? I'm really confused. But anyway,since I'm here. I need to show love to Morrigan,she's one of my favorite characters in gaming EVER. Playing as a gay male city elf everything just seems to fall into place with Morrigan around. Duncan also saved my city elf's life,but Morrigan is...something else. Beyond saving his life,she also gave my Warden a beautiful son he always wanted. She has my respect and friendship for always.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Yes, this is the Morrigan appreciation thread. That's why I'm here.

[BurningLizard]

Definitely the appreciation thread. So feel free to gush all you want.

[Qun00]

Just be careful not to spill it on us.

[Qun00]

Just be careful not to spill it on us.

[JJ Likeaprayer]

Oh I guess it is then,coz I didn't see a lot of animations or fan arts...but they might be there in some pages. But it suits her,the simpler the better. And spill what?   Damn,why is this threat kind of...strange? Guess all I can say is.....I love Morrigan...is that too much spilling?

[GoldenGail3]

Oh I guess it is then,coz I didn't see a lot of animations or fan arts...but they might be there in some pages. But it suits her,the simpler the better. And spill what?   Damn,why is this threat kind of...strange? Guess all I can say is.....I love Morrigan...is that too much spilling?

Morrigan is my King Cousland's mistress so she's baft.

[sylvanaerie]

Oh I guess it is then,coz I didn't see a lot of animations or fan arts...but they might be there in some pages. But it suits her,the simpler the better. And spill what?   Damn,why is this threat kind of...strange? Guess all I can say is.....I love Morrigan...is that too much spilling?

Go back a few pages, lots of beautiful fan art posts.  I think they're trying to keep down the pic spam so this thread won't be closed and restarted like the Alistair/Zevran ones which got so freaking huge from pics.

 

As for Mommy Morrigan vs non Mommy.  I haven't had a world state with non mommy yet (I think the current one I have is actually Morrigan with a normal Kieran) so I have yet to see what differences there are.  I have to say I love the Flemeth scene with her with OGB Kieran.

 

I think Morrigan's plans (whatever they were) were usurped by her unanticipated maternal instincts.  Recall, she was raised by a female role model with the mothering instincts of a woodchipper.  She was probably not expecting to love her son as much as she does.  This is especially poignant when you consider the father may have been Alistair (whom she hates, but still has kind words for in Inquisition if he's the dad) or Loghain, (who she barely knows) vs the HoF.  And a romanced Morrigan in love with the dad had the best lines (at least for me).