16171 réponses à ce sujet

[BurningLizard]

 Yup, why? 

 

BTW, if someone is interested, I'm writing my first DAO FF and it's obviously focused around Warden and Morrigan, I've read a great deal of them and I don't want to write just another story with a similar idea, nope, I've been doing this for an entire year now, kinda anxious that I might screw up, so if anyone is interested in reading it beforehand, please contact me.

Yo.

[Qun00]

For the longest time, I had no problem with the fact that Morrigan leaves if you refuse the DR. I'd figured that since none of the companions (except Alistair) are Grey Wardens, there is no oath being broken.

But I've been thinking and, well, it does seem to reinforce the idea that the Warden is a mere tool, nothing but the means to an end. You can actually confront Morrigan about this in Witch Hunt, to which she responds "I fought by your side! I put my life on the line for your cause!". And that just isn't true.

It was all for the sake of her goal, not your cause. First, Morrigan needs to stay alive so fighting is inevitable. And if she ever refused to accompany you when called, that would ruin the whole " I'm here to help you" premise.

Then the final battle approaches and she immediately leaves when her offer is turned down, as she no longer has any further use for you.

[vertigomez]

^ Well, she says herself that she doesn't want to see you die. She assumes you'll be the one to strike the final blow on the AD.

[Qun00]

The problem isn't Morrigan's motivation in offering it, but what she does when you don't give her what she wants.

Morrigan may even love the Warden... but not as much as she loves herself and her ambition.

[vertigomez]

The problem isn't Morrigan's motivation in offering it, but what she does when you don't give her what she wants.

Morrigan may even love the Warden... but not as much as she loves herself and her ambition.

That's what I mean, though. She literally can't bear to watch you die, so she walks away. She doesn't want to witness your death.

I don't deny that she's frighteningly ambitious, but I don't think she left just out of spite, whether you're lovers or friends.

[GoldenGail3]

I can't decide whenever I should write my Male Cousland/Morrigan Fic...

[Vigilance97]

I can't decide whenever I should write my Male Cousland/Morrigan Fic...

[GoldenGail3]

Wtf is that suppose to mean?

[MisterJB]

[GoldenGail3]

OH lol.

[MisterJB]

You're posting on the Morrigan thread, trying to get an opinion when suddenly...Shia LaBeouf.

[GoldenGail3]

You're posting on the Morrigan thread, trying to get an opinion when suddenly...Shia LaBeouf.

yeah, well I was already writing a origin story but it's taking forever and I don't have forever to write everything, lol.

[vertigomez]

Can't decide whether my next Morrimancer's gonna be a CE or a DC. Hrrmmn.

[Qun00]

Well, the DC knows what it's like to be raised by an abusive mother. They could share stories over some ale.

[Aren]

^ Well, she says herself that she doesn't want to see you die. She assumes you'll be the one to strike the final blow on the AD.

That's what I mean, though. She literally can't bear to watch you die, so she walks away. She doesn't want to witness your death.

I don't deny that she's frighteningly ambitious, but I don't think she left just out of spite, whether you're lovers or friends.

I heard the argument before and i expressed my criticism in a direct and unambiguous way against it simply by using Morrigan's own words against her and the conclusion is that her leaving because she didn't wanted to see the warden die is not convincing.
She left with a desire to emotionally hurt and offend the warden sinceshe openly said to the warden that she desired his regret.

[Illegitimus]

How would the Darkspawn know that Kieran had a old God soul in him? I wonder If Morrigan had to spend Kieran's childhood running with him away from Darkspawn and Flemeth? Hmmmm? This puts things In new light for me, lol.

 

They wouldn't.  The Darkspawn are drawn to what is basically a distress call from the trapped old gods.  Kieran isn't trapped so he doesn't do that, although he probably could.  

[Qun00]

The only time I believe it is good to allow Morrigan to get what she wants is the Well of Sorrows, because she immediately learns a lesson the hard way.

The DR is a different story. It is an obsession that involves using both her lover and child as mere tools. Of course, Morrigan eventually comes to care for them both, but one can't do wrong and still be rewarded with the very thing one wanted.

I know, I know. It's starting to get a little out of hand. But it's more like...

[Domakir]

 

I heard the argument before and i expressed my criticism in a direct and unambiguous way against it simply by using Morrigan's own words against her and the conclusion is that  her leaving because she didn't wanted to see the warden die is a blatant lie.

She left with a desire  to emotionally hurt and offend the warden since without qualms she openly said to the warden that she desired his regret in case of his survival, despite his kindness for her and all the difficult tasks he absolved for her sake.

 A disrespectful and scornful remarks during  a time of intense difficulty and trouble for the warden LI this was the meaning of her love?

She ruined everything,had she simply left there would have been no problems but she didn't she insulted the warden before to leave.

I didn't found any explanation or justification for such words nor to stop feeling angry and resentful toward her for such offence which was gratuitous, since in WH she is still arrogant towards the warden for the most part of her dialogues while she is trying to deflect the conversation towards things of whom i don't care just as a way to avoid the issue.

 

I don't think it's a lie tbh. She does care about the warden although that's not the only reason she left. Since the beginning she wanted the old god soul so if you refuse the DR she doesn't have to be there since she can't get her goal but if she has a friendship or a romance with the warden her goal changes a little, now she also wants to save him and in DAI she seems to regret leaving him if the warden died.

 

My canon warden refused the DR because 1. I don't like the fact that Morrigan wants to use a child for who knows what even if she doesn't in the end. 2. I felt a little betrayed and 3. I feel that in WH is more emotional if she has a human baby because there is nothing she can do with Kieran and yet she keeps him. With the OGB Kieran in the other hand she still talks about him as a tool or at least that's what it looked like to me. (Although it's good to know she changed her mind in DAI)

[Ash Wind]

The DR was atrociously handled in DAO. It went through several versions prior to the release of the game. It was rushed at the end, something the Devs have acknowledged. Sorry, don't have the link, but DG tried to 'correct' this with a minor comic that shows a more caring Morrigan with respect to that night in Redcliff.

 

I am a Morrigan fan, but as presented, the DAO DR scene is awful, on my first play-through I rejected the DR based solely on Morrigan's attitude.

 

Though the game itself doesn't offer proof, I'd like to think that part of Morrigan's reaction is based on the fact that she does care about the Warden, and does not want to see him die. While it doesn't change the fact that the only real reason she has come with you on this journey is indeed the OGB, I feel her being genuine when she states "... the fact that it may save your life makes me want to see it performed more." (not exact quote, but close).

 

While it took a number of years, its interesting to see her growth and acknowledgement of this fact in DAI.

[Domakir]

It was weird. That scene fits for a warden who doesn't care about morrigan but not for someone who was in a relationship with her.

[GoldenGail3]

It was weird. That scene fits for a warden who doesn't care about morrigan but not for someone who was in a relationship with her.

Like my King Cousland? Lol.

[Aryassine]

Six years later still discussions about the “evil” DR.

Spoiler

It plays virtually no role in DAI or future title, but here my thoughts about the DR ;-)

1. It’s not a betrayal rather a blackmail. She tells u what happen if u decline. Btw: the scene if u decline the DR and Morrigan walks proudly away is great

2. OGB-Plot in general is weak or rather not really sophisticated, not only the handling of the DR (especially for a Romance-Warden).

3. We still have no clue what the nature of the old gods is.

Spoiler

From Solas and Flemeth we know or are supposed to know, that the old gods are important for Thedas. How and whether this will be explained lies in the hand of Bioware. I personally think we never get a proof of the Makers existence. But who knows… maybe Bioware will claim at the end of DA that a Maker exists and he created everything else.

4. You have only Riordans and Morrigans information to decide doing DR or not. So you have faith in Morrigan or not (I mean in her motives and background information, not in the result of DR). I see no logic, that Morrigan/Flemeth wants a “Darkspawn-OGB-Child” (about the question what happens to the child soul >2.).

5. Surely Flem/Morri wants the OGB, but because this wish exists, 2 Wardens survived Ostagar. Just because Morrigan is present (opportunity to get OGB), Flemeth saves the Wardens. It would have also been possible, that F. and M. leave the Korcari Wilds and wait in the far north for their chance (with Orlesian Wardens). Again 2 more Wardens dead.

Like hundred times said before in this thread, Morrigan is challenging and the LI is not really easy. My Warden has sometimes to lie, not to offend or rather please her. But with this background and uprising her behavior and view of the world are not surprising. And that (and many other things) makes her so interesting.

If u can’t handle her, dismiss her in Lothering and if u must murder her in WH, do it. Although I see no RP-reasons for murdering her: a US-Warden is replaced by an Orlesian-Warden (what has an Orlesian-Warden to do with Morrigan?). A Warden who only survived by Alistair/Loghain-Sacrifice shouldn’t be in a morally position to judge her. And a Warden who survived cause of the DR and getting than doubts about OGB (the only reasonable setting I can imagine) is probably the worst (leaving the child alone). My Warden always follows Morrigan with the ulterior motive, to watch over his OGB-child for all cases.

In DAO you have, not like in the follower titles, more hard decisions to make. In this case it’s more a game for adults ;-) But enough from the usual Morrigan-Defending in the Morrigan-Fan-Thread.

I would rather talk about how Morrigan makes a great game even greater. She has an own agenda and is a very independent NPC. I believe she is the only LI in DA, which offers a Romance without previous flirts or proposals from the PC (correct me plz if I’m wrong). And then the voice… I played first in “my” language and Morrigan was already intriguing. But damn…Claudia Black put it on a new level. The spectrum of her voice is incredible.

At last I have a question:

Spoiler

Do you believe that Morrigan becomes a vessel of Mythal? I read that Yavanna is also an option, but in a comic she got killed by a foolish ex-templar ;-) Is her dead official DA-Lore? After my first playthrough I was pretty sure that Morrigans telling the epilogue and seeing her leaving Skyhold is her goodbye from DA (what I would welcome). But there are some things that make me nervous: Flemeth/Solas scene; Morrigans behavior during the well of sorrow (Kieran-factor); Lelianas comment about Morrigan becoming more and more like Flemeth (although she didn’t knew her really); during DR she answers you after the Warden said “I don’t want to lose you”, that she’s already lost. That makes me really sad. What do you think?

P.S. Sorry for my grammar

[Qun00]

If the the fact that it's been 6 years is a problem, this section should be deleted entirely.

[Brockololly]

This page is sorely lacking Morrigan pictures:


From Captain--De-Lorenzo
 

I am a Morrigan fan, but as presented, the DAO DR scene is awful, on my first play-through I rejected the DR based solely on Morrigan's attitude.
 
Though the game itself doesn't offer proof, I'd like to think that part of Morrigan's reaction is based on the fact that she does care about the Warden, and does not want to see him die. While it doesn't change the fact that the only real reason she has come with you on this journey is indeed the OGB, I feel her being genuine when she states "... the fact that it may save your life makes me want to see it performed more." (not exact quote, but close).
 
While it took a number of years, its interesting to see her growth and acknowledgement of this fact in DAI.

Sure, the DR as presented in Origins is definitely less than ideal, most notably for Wardens that were on good terms with Morrigan.

That said, I think the fact that we had Witch Hunt kind of made up for that. It makes sense that Origins Morrigan would be cagey about things to the Warden even if she was in a relationship with him, since she's still that raw version of Morrigan that's not really far removed from how she was at the start of Origins.

The bigger problem with the DR scene in Origins is that narratively speaking, we (the players) still have zero clue as to what the big deal was with the DR and OGB for Morrigan's plans. Obviously her plans for the OGB/DR seemingly changed once she grew into caring for Kieran not just as some vessel for an OG soul but as her own son. But what those plans were is what I really want to know. Unless she basically had no concrete plans and was just going to preserve the OG soul for the hell of it?

It was basically a cliffhanger/ unresolved plot point that seemed pretty intriguing and yet BioWare more or less sidestepped ever addressing it by having Morrigan never have to interact with the Warden as player character post Witch Hunt and by having her seemingly change her plans and then having Flemeth snatch the OG soul in any event.
 

4. You have only Riordans and Morrigans information to decide doing DR or not. So you have faith in Morrigan or not (I mean in her motives and background information, not in the result of DR). I see no logic, that Morrigan/Flemeth wants a “Darkspawn-OGB-Child” (about the question what happens to the child soul >2.).

Right, in theory I like the nature of the DR choice. Within the confines of the game, your Warden is facing a pretty dire situation where Riordan just dropped a bomb on your Warden, that whoever takes the killing blow on the Archdemon will die. And Morrigan gives your Warden, or any of the Wardens facing the Archdemon, an out to survive. She presents it in a super shady fashion that probably doesn't help her own cause by being so incredibly hesitant to share details. But like she says if you dig into the dialogue and your Warden is romancing or friendly with Morrigan, she is offering this DR to your Warden to let you survive. The bigger issue with that scene is how Morrigan lays out that choice- if you were romancing her, it would have been nicer if she kind of framed the DR as a means for your survival first and foremost and the preservation of the OG soul as secondary, especially now that we know the her plans for the OGB basically resulted in absolutely nothing of significance.

 

Like hundred times said before in this thread, Morrigan is challenging and the LI is not really easy. My Warden has sometimes to lie, not to offend or rather please her. But with this background and uprising her behavior and view of the world are not surprising. And that (and many other things) makes her so interesting.

I think that's a good point people don't always bring up with Morrigan's relationship in Origins. Kind of based on the approval system you might have had your Warden saying things they didn't necessarily agree with when trying to bump up Morrigan's approval. Yet people are so quick to say how Morrigan is a liar and deceitful when it comes to the DR choice.

 

I would rather talk about how Morrigan makes a great game even greater. She has an own agenda and is a very independent NPC. I believe she is the only LI in DA, which offers a Romance without previous flirts or proposals from the PC (correct me plz if I’m wrong). And then the voice… I played first in “my” language and Morrigan was already intriguing. But damn…Claudia Black put it on a new level. The spectrum of her voice is incredible.

The independent nature of companions like Morrigan and Alistair is something I really liked in Origins. Your Warden can influence them to a certain extent but at the end they'll still do their own thing.

And yes, Claudia Black's voice acting definitely takes Morrigan to another level

 

At last I have a question:

Spoiler

Do you believe that Morrigan becomes a vessel of Mythal? I read that Yavanna is also an option, but in a comic she got killed by a foolish ex-templar ;-) Is her dead official DA-Lore? After my first playthrough I was pretty sure that Morrigans telling the epilogue and seeing her leaving Skyhold is her goodbye from DA (what I would welcome). But there are some things that make me nervous: Flemeth/Solas scene; Morrigans behavior during the well of sorrow (Kieran-factor); Lelianas comment about Morrigan becoming more and more like Flemeth (although she didn’t knew her really); during DR she answers you after the Warden said “I don’t want to lose you”, that she’s already lost. That makes me really sad. What do you think?

P.S. Sorry for my grammar

Your grammar is fine! As for your question... Inquisition speculation/spoilers, I guess, even though its been out for almost 1.5 years now:

Spoiler

Morrigan's future in DA is a huge question mark to me. On one hand, David Gaider leaving not only the DA team but BioWare makes me think they won't do much with Morrigan again. That and how her ending in Inquisition walking away from Skyhold makes it seem like a good stopping point. But, on the other hand, they laid the groundwork for Morrigan coming back again maybe as the vessel for Mythal, especially if the next game heavily features a return of all the other Elven gods given what Solas has planned. Then you have that description of the post credits scene hinting at Flemeth sending Mythal's essence into the Eluvian for Morrigan to find, which may or may not be legacy info at this point.

As for Yavana, I really would like to know more about her. She's an intriguing character and I'm not sure she's truly dead. The World of Thedas Volume 2 entry on her states how it was rumored she was slain but also hints that whether its actually possible to kill a witch as powerful as her. After all, she's supposedly been around for hundreds of years. And there is one panel in the comic after Alistair stabs her that makes me wonder if she shapeshifted into a snake or something.

I'd just love to see Morrigan have a chance to chat with Yavana. Big ol' family reunion!

Morrigan coming back as the vessel of Mythal could be interesting story wise but really, without Gaider there to write her, I'd be concerned that if Morrigan were to show up again, she'd just come across as some really generic figure. I really appreciated how she still seemingly cared for the Warden and Kieran in Inquisition, even if that could have been done better in spots. If she comes back again, without Gaider, I'd be worried she'll just be some super generic NPC that barely recognizes the events of Origins.

[Aryassine]

Spoiler

Morrigan's future in DA is a huge question mark to me. On one hand, David Gaider leaving not only the DA team but BioWare makes me think they won't do much with Morrigan again. That and how her ending in Inquisition walking away from Skyhold makes it seem like a good stopping point. But, on the other hand, they laid the groundwork for Morrigan coming back again maybe as the vessel for Mythal, especially if the next game heavily features a return of all the other Elven gods given what Solas has planned. Then you have that description of the post credits scene hinting at Flemeth sending Mythal's essence into the Eluvian for Morrigan to find, which may or may not be legacy info at this point.

As for Yavana, I really would like to know more about her. She's an intriguing character and I'm not sure she's truly dead. The World of Thedas Volume 2 entry on her states how it was rumored she was slain but also hints that whether its actually possible to kill a witch as powerful as her. After all, she's supposedly been around for hundreds of years. And there is one panel in the comic after Alistair stabs her that makes me wonder if she shapeshifted into a snake or something.

I'd just love to see Morrigan have a chance to chat with Yavana. Big ol' family reunion!

Morrigan coming back as the vessel of Mythal could be interesting story wise but really, without Gaider there to write her, I'd be concerned that if Morrigan were to show up again, she'd just come across as some really generic figure. I really appreciated how she still seemingly cared for the Warden and Kieran in Inquisition, even if that could have been done better in spots. If she comes back again, without Gaider, I'd be worried she'll just be some super generic NPC that barely recognizes the events of Origins.

 

Hey Brockololly,

I'm glad you still around. Besides Terra-Ex you seems to be the biggest Morrigan-Fan/Expert. Congratulation! 

And thank you 4 the pics. Not to miss one good pic was a reason 4 me to scrawl through the entire thread 

 

Spoiler

Yeah Gaiders leaving is one of the reasons, that I don't want to see here again in DA4. Also I fear, like u said, we meet here again and she has "forgotten" HoF and Kieran. That would be horrible. I noticed in the forum an Abelas crash. Could it be possible, that he is also an option for Mythal-Vessel? He returnes to the game and his fans are pleased.

 

I must read the comic again. I remind it so, that the dragon attend to eat Yavana    And yes, a chat between them would be great. Yavana would probably patronize Morrigan and who knows how she would react