Aller au contenu

Photo

THE Morrigan Discussion and Research Thread *Infested with Bugs Yet Again!*


16171 réponses à ce sujet

#16051
ThomasBlaine

ThomasBlaine
  • Members
  • 915 messages

 

Most people were willing to risk their life against the blight thus undermine any accuse of cowardice you may desire to throw up on them.

The warden has been(boring list of unfortunate events)and?Everyone has its own problems in this world try to use them as a way to victimize how unfortunate the warden was doesn't have to put the warden on a pedestal compared to the Ferelden denizens.

 

The legions of refugees, allies who won't lift a finger before you solve all their problems for them and majority of the population who never even consider picking up a weapon to attack the darkspawn unless they're personally, physically threatened would beg to differ. Nobody is putting the warden on a pedestal, just pointing out that any Warden with a smidgeon of sense must be aware that s/he doesn't owe these people his/her life, and that throwing that life away for them on principle absolutely shouldn't be treated as a no-brainer.

 

Doing the right thing is all well and good, but I prefer to play characters who are at least a tiny bit realistic. And in real life choosing to die is much much harder than merely determining that to be the best course of action.



#16052
Aryassine

Aryassine
  • Members
  • 10 messages

Yeah, I kind of reached a point where I've realized that I like what I like, and if others like it, great, if not whatever. I don't have to convince people that Morrigan is an amazing character to continue enjoying her story.

Right, but it seems some people want to convince other Morrigan is evil, bad or whatever.

I just wonder for myself why someone should spend so much time in NPC-threads (or watch/comment YT-Romance-Videos of this certain NPC) if they don’t like him/her. But maybe it’s in other fan threads similar.

 

At the end that’s a game and it has game mechanics. For instance it makes in my opinion no sense to blame M. for Abelas dead. It was the IQ-decision to not follow the Mythal ritual and Morrigan handles only the consequences. Bioware/DG decided long ago that Morrigan is a slightly dark char and so she must act sometimes. For me that’s also the only explanation, why M. approves from the demon-deal at Honnleath if you don’t betray Kitty. They couldn’t let approve all companions if you betray the demon. So the “usual bad guys/girls” have to disapprove, even if there several indications that Morrigan dislike demons.

 

I joined this thread because I wanted to discuss about Morrigan and her possible future in the series. The DAI section doesn’t work for me, but it seems this thread offer similar projections like the DAI section: M. is the pure evil because she stole a book. (Not to mention that the thief returns it and probably understood it more than several Dalish generation before. Also the option exists that the Dalish their self, will maybe someday profit from M. knowledge.) I would be having a wonderful time, if it turns out, that Morrigan/Mythal will be a kind of Savior of Thedas including all the chantry manure.



#16053
GoldenGail3

GoldenGail3
  • Members
  • 3 613 messages

Right, but it seems some people want to convince other Morrigan is evil, bad or whatever.
I just wonder for myself why someone should spend so much time in NPC-threads (or watch/comment YT-Romance-Videos of this certain NPC) if they don’t like him/her. But maybe it’s in other fan threads similar.

At the end that’s a game and it has game mechanics. For instance it makes in my opinion no sense to blame M. for Abelas dead. It was the IQ-decision to not follow the Mythal ritual and Morrigan handles only the consequences. Bioware/DG decided long ago that Morrigan is a slightly dark char and so she must act sometimes. For me that’s also the only explanation, why M. approves from the demon-deal at Honnleath if you don’t betray Kitty. They couldn’t let approve all companions if you betray the demon. So the “usual bad guys/girls” have to disapprove, even if there several indications that Morrigan dislike demons.

I joined this thread because I wanted to discuss about Morrigan and her possible future in the series. The DAI section doesn’t work for me, but it seems this thread offer similar projections like the DAI section: M. is the pure evil because she stole a book. (Not to mention that the thief returns it and probably understood it more than several Dalish generation before. Also the option exists that the Dalish their self, will maybe someday profit from M. knowledge.) I would be having a wonderful time, if it turns out, that Morrigan/Mythal will be a kind of Savior of Thedas including all the chantry manure.

Morrigan is pure evil? No, she's not... She's pragmatic, though, I suppose...

#16054
Aren

Aren
  • Members
  • 3 480 messages

The legions of refugees, and majority of the population who never even consider picking up a weapon to attack the darkspawn unless they're personally, physically threatened would beg to differ. 

The refugees and the majority of the population are not soldiers and there is little if nothing that they can do to oppose an Archdemon since they lack resources,they lost their home and don't have any basic military preparation,so unless you are suggesting that they should needlessly butcher themselves against the darkspawns i don't grasp your point.

 

allies 

Allies were heavily constrained by their own problems and were in no position to help the protagonist.
I wonder if we played the same game at this point.

 

Nobody is putting the warden on a pedestal, 

 

It's exactly what you did with the list you posted in your previous post.

 

s/he doesn't owe these people his/her life, and that throwing that life away for them on principle absolutely shouldn't be treated as a no-brainer.

 

Doing the right thing is all well and good, but I prefer to play characters who are at least a tiny bit realistic. And in real life choosing to die is much much harder than merely determining that to be the best course of action.

If you are specifically referring to the Dark ritual rather than the Warden commander or the Redemption ending i disagree.
The ritual is a gamble for the whole world not just for the people of Ferelden so  it isn't a  matter of doing the "right thing" but a matter of doing the most safe thing.

 

 it makes in my opinion no sense to blame M. for Abelas dead. It was the IQ-decision to not follow the Mythal ritual and Morrigan handles only the consequences.

Yes it does

The Inquisitor doesn't have to respect the temple of Mythal by performing  unknowing magical rituals but that doesn't mean that Morrigan has to surpass the authority of the Inquisitor and make a decision during their mission(The Inquisitor mission and the Inquisiton mandate) by killing a potential resource since it is the Inquisitor mission and the PC is entitled to handle it in whatever way they want.

 

 

M. is the pure evil because she stole a book. (Not to mention that the thief returns it and probably understood it more than several Dalish generation before. Also the option exists that the Dalish their self, will maybe someday profit from M. knowledge.) I would be having a wonderful time, if it turns out, that Morrigan/Mythal will be a kind of Savior of Thedas including all the chantry manure.

I read this same contrived supper before.
That she understood it better doesn't mean that she was entitled to steal it not to mention that she never returned the book to the keeper it was the warden who had  to pursue her all across the nation to find it.
Also call Mythal a savior while defining the chantry as "manure" just kinda leave your projection as extremely one sided.

 



#16055
ThomasBlaine

ThomasBlaine
  • Members
  • 915 messages

 

The refugees and the majority of the population are not soldiers and there is little if nothing that they can do to oppose an Archdemon since they lack resources,they lost their home and don't have any basic military preparation,so unless you are suggesting that they should needlessly butcher themselves against the darkspawns i don't grasp your point.

 

The only thing any of the Wardens have on those people at the beginning of the story is basic military preparation, if even that, and that's something that's relatively easily acquired. Able-bodied men who stayed at home during times of total war have been considered cowards through every such war in history, and the Warden was potentially conscripted him/herself. In no way does their lack of participation make the Warden owe them his/her life any more than if they'd slit their own throats and been done with it.

 

 

Allies were heavily constrained by their own problems and were in no position to help the protagonist.
I wonder if we played the same game at this point.

 

No they weren't, the Dwarves were perfectly capable of coming to the Wardens' aid if they'd gotten their fingers out and stopped squabbling, Bann Teagan would have been perfectly capable of putting down the undead and committing the knights of Redcliffe to the effort if he hadn't prioritized his brother over the Blight and sent them all on mad quests instead. The Dalish would have been perfectly capable of moving their asses out of werewolf territory and assisting the Wardens if their Keeper hadn't been a stubborn lunatic. The Templars locked the mages up in the Circle Tower with demons instead of doing their jobs, and refuse to assist you in doing it for them. A sizable chunk of the mages themselves try to kill you on sight, the few that remain require you to save them from each other.

 

Everywhere people make the Warden and his/her party singlehandedly solve their mostly self-induced problems for them without any financial or martial aid whatsoever, despite all being legally bound to help the Wardens without question or complaint. The Warden has every excuse to despise Ferelden's population in general, especially if s/he doesn't have much experience with it before hand. Especially if s/he was already an exile or pariah before Duncan came along.

 

 

It's exactly what you did with the list you posted in your previous post.

 

No it wasn't, I was pointing out reasons for the Warden not to feel like they owe the world anything, having been treated like utter shite by it. Putting something on a pedestal means embellishing on its virtues and pretending it beyond flaw.

 

 

 

If you are specifically referring to the Dark ritual rather than the Warden commander or the Redemption ending i disagree.
The ritual is a gamble for the whole world not just for the people of Ferelden so  it isn't a  matter of doing the "right thing" but a matter of doing the most safe thing.

 

That seeming like a gamble or not would depend entirely on whether or not the Warden trusts Morrigan's judgement. And again, passing up a chance to survive the next few weeks isn't something one simply does because it seems like the right thing to do, if that were the case then the world would be a much much better place today. If you want to play characters who prioritize the world's problems over their own life on a gut level then fine. Certainly doesn't make it the only realistic choice.

 

 

I read this same contrived supper before.

That she understood it better doesn't mean that she was entitled to steal it not to mention that she never returned the book to the keeper it was the warden who had  to pursue her all across the nation to find it.
Also call Mythal a savior while defining the chantry as "manure" just kinda leave your projection as extremely one sided.

 

"Contrived supper" isn't an expression, and I assume you're referring to our earlier discussion here. It's kind of funny how Morrigan deciding to steal a book is such a big deal for you. She also doesn't steal it because she feels entitled to it, she steals it because it's simply more necessary for her plans than she cares about the elves' offended sensibilities, which makes it less of a deal to some of us because those plans are actually very constructive unlike what the Keeper was using it for.

 

By the way, I still have a ragged edition of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix that I should have returned to the local library in second grade, a good thirteen years ago. To your mind, does that make me evil?



#16056
BurningLizard

BurningLizard
  • Members
  • 153 messages

Maybe all the people that can't get over the book are all librarians. To them a book thief is pure evil.

 

Never realized there were so many librarians on the internet.

 

And I for one would love to have a more interesting discussion about Morrigan, but through some unknown means, some mysterious force keeps dragging the conversation back to the same argument about Morrigan's late book fees or something. I dunno, haven't really been paying attention.

 

How about this. Morrigan romance or friendship? Which do you prefer and why?



#16057
Seraphim24

Seraphim24
  • Members
  • 7 402 messages

Morrigan is the ice queen, as everyone references. I think she's interesting personally but there's no denying she tends towards... well.

 

I always thought that first interaction in Loathering when she gets so upset that you helped the one merchant out was such an extreme over-reaction, almost like all she was doing was waiting for this one moment to lash out at you and criticize you for everything to compensate for her own personal social traumas and things like that.

 

But then she breaks down at the end of the romance and talks about how important you are to her, it's all very goth emo in some ways, but nonetheless.



#16058
The Elder King

The Elder King
  • Members
  • 19 622 messages

Morrigan is the ice queen, as everyone references. I think she's interesting personally but there's no denying she tends towards... well.

 

I always thought that first interaction in Loathering when she gets so upset that you helped the one merchant out was such an extreme over-reaction, almost like all she was doing was waiting for this one moment to lash out at you and criticize you for everything to compensate for her own personal social traumas and things like that.

 

But then she breaks down at the end of the romance and talks about how important you are to her, it's all very goth emo in some ways, but nonetheless.

I don't recall she was THAT upset to be honest. Ans don't she criticizes the Warden just to compensate her 'social trauma'. She was raised in a specific way, and it reflects on her opinions, morals, and views. 



#16059
ThomasBlaine

ThomasBlaine
  • Members
  • 915 messages

 

How about this. Morrigan romance or friendship? Which do you prefer and why?

 

Friendship. I think I enjoy my Dalish Warden's friendship with her more than I ever did my Couslands' romances.

 

1: She's clearly never had a genuine friend in her entire life. From a mental-health standpoint, I'd say she needs a friend more than a lover, and depending on your Warden s/he might too. Taking her to your bed is also kind of enabling her and taking advantage of her loneliness, and vice versa as seducing you for your seed eventually becomes part of her agenda. On some level I'd much rather leave her with the experience of caring for someone who also cared for her without any sex or ulterior motives involved than play into her game and stick around for the fallout as her "true love".

 

2: Being seduced is one thing, but in most medieval cultures engaging another person romantically had serious repercussions for your life and survival depending on comparative status and circumstances. You didn't get together with someone just because you felt like it. I like to play Wardens who don't act and think like modern teenagers. For one thing, human women should be an acquired taste at best for dwarves and elves.

 

3: I'm a contrary bastard, and I actually really like Morrigan as a character and not just as one of three possible love interests.



#16060
Qun00

Qun00
  • Members
  • 4 336 messages
So, how do you guys prefer to initiate the romance? There are different moments when it can be triggered.

Personally, I hate the "you can probe me anytime" line. I prefer to start after "killing" Flemeth, because your line will be "I'd like to be more than friends".

But the problem is that she STILL acts surprised when the first kiss happens, which makes no sense.

#16061
The Elder King

The Elder King
  • Members
  • 19 622 messages

So, how do you guys prefer to initiate the romance? There are different moments when it can be triggered.

Personally, I hate the "you can probe me anytime" line. I prefer to start after "killing" Flemeth, because your line will be "I'd like to be more than friends".

But the problem is that she STILL acts surprised when the first kiss happens, which makes no sense.

The latter is indeed a better line.

As for the suprise, I guess it's an oversight when writing those lines. I recall Alistair and Leliana's romantic paths change a bit based on the moment you start the relation/the affection level.



#16062
Domakir

Domakir
  • Members
  • 116 messages

So, how do you guys prefer to initiate the romance? There are different moments when it can be triggered.

Personally, I hate the "you can probe me anytime" line. I prefer to start after "killing" Flemeth, because your line will be "I'd like to be more than friends".

But the problem is that she STILL acts surprised when the first kiss happens, which makes no sense.

After killing Flemeth. And I like when you give her the golden mirror without the romance before her personal quest.

#16063
ThomasBlaine

ThomasBlaine
  • Members
  • 915 messages

So, how do you guys prefer to initiate the romance? There are different moments when it can be triggered.

Personally, I hate the "you can probe me anytime" line. I prefer to start after "killing" Flemeth, because your line will be "I'd like to be more than friends".

But the problem is that she STILL acts surprised when the first kiss happens, which makes no sense.

 

I didn't know that the "probe me anytime" line initiates the romance. Don't have a problem with it though. "I'd like to be more than friends" is a worse line in my eyes because because it calls attention to the two of you already being pretty close and that you want more. She obviously doesn't like to think herself dependent on anyone emotionally, and despises the notion of love, so I'd personally keep such remarks to myself in the Warden's shoes.

 

"You can probe me anytime" is a light and surprising comeback to her statement that she doesn't probe you for anecdotes. Yes, if you imagine it said in Alistair's self-deprecating-joke-voice then it does sound stupid, but if you imagine it said quietly and meaningfully without humor while looking her right in the eye then it becomes a clear message that you'd trust her with your personal information too if she asked. Much more subtle, and more liable to flatter than alarm her, which is exactly what happens. Even her sarcasm sounds touched and amused.



#16064
GoldenGail3

GoldenGail3
  • Members
  • 3 613 messages

So, how do you guys prefer to initiate the romance? There are different moments when it can be triggered.

Personally, I hate the "you can probe me anytime" line. I prefer to start after "killing" Flemeth, because your line will be "I'd like to be more than friends".

But the problem is that she STILL acts surprised when the first kiss happens, which makes no sense.

I like it though.. 



#16065
Qun00

Qun00
  • Members
  • 4 336 messages

I didn't know that the "probe me anytime" line initiates the romance. Don't have a problem with it though. "I'd like to be more than friends" is a worse line in my eyes because because it calls attention to the two of you already being pretty close and that you want more. She obviously doesn't like to think herself dependent on anyone emotionally, and despises the notion of love, so I'd personally keep such remarks to myself in the Warden's shoes.

"You can probe me anytime" is a light and surprising comeback to her statement that she doesn't probe you for anecdotes. Yes, if you imagine it said in Alistair's self-deprecating-joke-voice then it does sound stupid, but if you imagine it said quietly and meaningfully without humor while looking her right in the eye then it becomes a clear message that you'd trust her with your personal information too if she asked. Much more subtle, and more liable to flatter than alarm her, which is exactly what happens. Even her sarcasm sounds touched and amused.


So you think it is better to pretend you share her opinion instead of being honest?

And sure, I suppose that line isn't so bad if it isn't meant as childish innuendo.

#16066
ThomasBlaine

ThomasBlaine
  • Members
  • 915 messages

So you think it is better to pretend you share her opinion instead of being honest?

And sure, I suppose that line isn't so bad if it isn't meant as childish innuendo.

 

As a relationship strategy with a willful young woman inexperienced in matters of the heart and uncomfortable with the very idea of intimacy? Absolutely. It's also known as delicacy. If she's going to engage in a proper relationship then it needs to sneak up on her, that much is obvious. Show her what you want by being affectionate and patient and see if she becomes interested, don't tell her in terms she doesn't understand yet and then just hope she'll come around.

 

When courting, you occasionally have to consider the nature of the woman in question.



#16067
Seraphim24

Seraphim24
  • Members
  • 7 402 messages

Hm, this is kind of an interesting question, it's hard to form an opinion because I think Morrigan's character intended to be sort of complex and she has that weird empath thing to kind of sniff out your possible ulterior motives.

 

Maybe I'll have to read all the dialogue and stuff again.



#16068
Ash Wind

Ash Wind
  • Members
  • 673 messages

So, how do you guys prefer to initiate the romance? There are different moments when it can be triggered.

Personally, I hate the "you can probe me anytime" line. I prefer to start after "killing" Flemeth, because your line will be "I'd like to be more than friends".

But the problem is that she STILL acts surprised when the first kiss happens, which makes no sense.

Romance, when Morrigan invites the Warden back to her tent for the first time... she can pretend it just sex, but as the animation plays, it shows its much more for her than just a booty call, you don't hug a booty call like she clings to the Warden in that scene.

 

Yes, she needs a friend, but there's no reason she can't have a friend... and for the first time, a lover... if you follow it through the DR, through WH, you see its not ONLY Kieran that affects her change in DAI... but a caring Warden. She is a conflicted woman at the Gates of Denirim, any number of conversations choices the Warden makes in that last exchange reveal how conflicted, for the very first time in her life she has felt attachment. Serious character development.

 

And as a side note, after killing flemeth, after she falls in love with the Warden... after the Warden finally breaks it off with her... when you give her the golden mirror, her response is the epitome of grace (and she falls back in love with the warden, she won't sleep with him, but initiate a conversation with her, and the.... 'Your desire?' tells you all you need to know).



#16069
Qun00

Qun00
  • Members
  • 4 336 messages
Funny... I never had to break up with Morrigan or use the golden mirror.

#16070
Ash Wind

Ash Wind
  • Members
  • 673 messages

Funny... I never had to break up with Morrigan or use the golden mirror.

Get to a point of Love (think its 91 approval (in a romance) or higher) she pleads with you to break things off. You don't have to, but you can.

 

There were some issues with bugs and getting the Regret and Sorrow end slide on whether you remained with her or broke things off. I always broke up with her, then turned around and gave her the mirror, and always got the Regret and Sorrow slide.

 

If you haven't broken up with her, and then given her the golden mirror, you're missing one of her absolutely best scenes.



#16071
Qun00

Qun00
  • Members
  • 4 336 messages
If you speak to Leliana about a male, living Warden in Inquisition, she mentions that sometimes she sends him letters to ask for advice.

I wonder if Morrigan gets jealous. :D

#16072
GoldenGail3

GoldenGail3
  • Members
  • 3 613 messages

Probably, considering she's Morrigan :D



#16073
Domakir

Domakir
  • Members
  • 116 messages
I would pay to ser that.

#16074
Xawer

Xawer
  • Members
  • 37 messages

I started playing this game and became a DA fan  after a Morrigan(Origins) youtube clip so yea... Morrigan is in a class of her own when it comes to RPG characters.

 

The voice acting + writing + visual concept is a very good combination.


  • Yaroub aime ceci

#16075
Qun00

Qun00
  • Members
  • 4 336 messages
It amuses me that 10 years later she still acts like a tsundere.

About contacting the HoF: "He will think this means I miss him, of course. He will be insufferably pleased with himself. I hope you appreciate this sacrifice, Inquisitor".

It keeps the relationship fresh, I guess. lol