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[Terra_Ex]

blademaster7 wrote...

Broken Circle > tower level 1 > greagoir

The conversation only comes up if you side with the templars.

I read the whole thing. It is... interesting, to say the least.


Here are the notes I found...

This line was cut as there were no cinematics for Morrigan leaving, and leaving at that point caused some GUI issues. Too late to fix.

Hmmm... can probably repurpose the scene where she leaves in wolf form during the ritual to fit in with this, maybe beg Charsen or someone else if it proves beyond my current skills, but damn all this missing stuff is annoying, its like anything even remotely pertaining to a cutscene was left out. But hey, at least there's actually a reason stated for the cut here. I'll definitely be looking into this later today though. 

Keep on searching blademaster, the "proper" Dark Ritual is probably hidden away somewhere. :happy:

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 08 mai 2010 - 12:50 .

[blademaster7]

Terra_Ex wrote...
Keep on searching blademaster, the "proper" Dark Ritual is probably hidden away somewhere. :happy:

Can you import ME2 cinematics in DAO?
We could use some cuddling in bed after the ritual. And some dancing... yeah(juggling flaming knives?)

One can only hope.

Anyway. You could just use the normal animation where she walks to the side and then dissapears. That wouldn't be too hard to implement, would it?

Modifié par blademaster7, 08 mai 2010 - 01:00 .

[Terra_Ex]

blademaster7 wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...
Keep on searching blademaster, the "proper" Dark Ritual is probably hidden away somewhere. :happy:

Can you import ME2 cinematics in DAO?
We could use some cuddling in bed after the ritual. And some dancing... yeah(juggling flaming knives?)

One can only hope.

Anyway. You could just use the normal animation where she walks to the side and then dissapears. That wouldn't be too hard to implement, would it?

Wouldn't be hard to implement ,but it probably won't look right if its an exchange between multiple characters- as a last resort I'd consider doing that, but if she's supposed to transform then that's what I'll be aiming for. A way will be found to make this work though, once I get back home and fire up that toolset I can take a proper look at what needs to be done.

[Master Shiori]

Terra_Ex wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...
Keep on searching blademaster, the "proper" Dark Ritual is probably hidden away somewhere. :happy:

Can you import ME2 cinematics in DAO?
We could use some cuddling in bed after the ritual. And some dancing... yeah(juggling flaming knives?)

One can only hope.

Anyway. You could just use the normal animation where she walks to the side and then dissapears. That wouldn't be too hard to implement, would it?

Wouldn't be hard to implement ,but it probably won't look right if its an exchange between multiple characters- as a last resort I'd consider doing that, but if she's supposed to transform then that's what I'll be aiming for. A way will be found to make this work though, once I get back home and fire up that toolset I can take a proper look at what needs to be done.

Well there is an animation of Morrigan transforming when you refuse to do the dark ritual.

Not sure if that can be of any use to you though, since I've no idea how the toolset works...

[blademaster7]

She only leaves if you insist that she's dangerous. If you point out that you need her help, Greagoir won't try anything funny. He'll just say that the templars will hunt her down some other time. Morrigan won't leave in this case but she'll take a massive approval drop.

If possible, I recommend restoring the dialogue where she doesn't leave and leave the cinematic later.

Modifié par blademaster7, 08 mai 2010 - 01:19 .

[Terra_Ex]

Hmmm... that's not a bad idea. Out of interest, is there any follow up dialog regarding this from Greagoir when the Circle quest is complete, particularly if you choose to kill the mages?

[Master Shiori]

Hmm, thanks for the info on that. Though I can't imagine anyone who likes Morrigan will be willing to betray her in such a way...

[blademaster7]

Terra_Ex wrote...

Hmmm... that's not a bad idea. Out of interest, is there any follow up dialog regarding this from Greagoir when the Circle quest is complete, particularly if you choose to kill the mages?

I'm not sure what you mean.

The dialogue is the one that triggers right after you kill Uldred and you walk down with Irving/Cullen.

If you side with the templars and Morrigan is in the party she will just say something to Greagoir. At this point you can intervene and say "Morrigan is an apostate mage you know". That's the one and only time you can bring it up.

Modifié par blademaster7, 08 mai 2010 - 01:34 .

[Terra_Ex]

blademaster7 wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...

Hmmm... that's not a bad idea. Out of interest, is there any follow up dialog regarding this from Greagoir when the Circle quest is complete, particularly if you choose to kill the mages?

I'm not sure what you mean.

The dialogue is the one that triggers right after you kill Uldred and you walk down with Irving/Cullen.

If you side with the templars and Morrigan is in the party she will just say something to Greagoir. At this point you can intervene and say "Morrigan is an apostate mage you know". That's the one and only time you can bring it up.

Ah, so this dialogue triggers AFTER you've cleaned out the circle? I was working under the assumption this took place in your initial meeting with Greagoir - (not got the toolset in front of me atm).

[Brockololly]

Terra_Ex wrote...
Ah, so this dialogue triggers AFTER you've cleaned out the circle? I was working under the assumption this took place in your initial meeting with Greagoir - (not got the toolset in front of me atm).

Yeah it triggers after you side with the templars and go back to Greagoir.

Nice find blademaster- its a shame alot of that stuff got cut out. I just went in the toolset and listened to it and its good stuff. I wish Bioware would take a cue from CD Projekt and release a "enhanced edition" or something for DA down the road, like CD Projekt did for The Witcher. Just seems like there is a good amount of cut content that would have really added a lot to the game.

[Barbarossa2010]

Master Shiori wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

Brock... the banter with Wynne and the situation with kitty was something I brought up in a thread months ago.

For a woman that values freedom she's pretty content with letting a demon posses a little girl. And all sorts of other things(anvil... Caladrious offer with the elven slaves etc).

Just to be clear, I do not think she will end up just like Flemeth. It just reinforces my suspicion that not even the writers themselves know what to do with her. That, or they do love to have the audience speculate about all sorts of things.

Caladrious was also pretty much in character. The Elves were obviously weak enough to allow themselves to be captured and threated as merchandise and sacrificing them to empower the Warden would make your future efforts against the Darkspawn easier.

Freedom is merely a means to an end for her.  And what she means by freedom is freedom for those strong enough to have it.  If one is willing to throw another under the bus for their own gain, their committment to freedom is tenuous at best.

She is most certainly pragmatic.  That just means she'll do whatever it takes to achieve an end: enslave others, allow demons to possess innocent people, enslave dwarven souls to gain the power of the anvil.  Some of the worst people in history have been absolute pragmatists allowing terrible things to happen to others (or actively doing them) to gain something for themselvs in return.  It is not a virtue in it's own right, but it does play well to the survival of the fittest-minded.  But like many have said here, it most certainly is her personality, at least early-on in the story.  Whether the Warden tempered the beast or not is yet to be seen.

I'd also like to point out that most of those things were just suggested by her. She never really goes out of her way to do them nor do you suffered a huge approval loss is you refuse to listen to her advice.

It actually made me wonder how much of that would be Flemeth's teaching rather then Morrigan's personal belief? Morri says in Mage Tower that Flemeth always said how a person can't change his/her destiny and this is something that Morrigan admits she's never accepted.

Because of this it could be possible that she's actually looking for alternatives to what Flemeth taught her and by advising the Warden to do these things she wants to see what he would do differently.

Oh, I definitely think she is deeply conflicted.  I'd say some of it started with her own introspection even before the events of DA:O, but I see her really began to question Flemeth's teaching upon meeting the Warden and observing him/her in action.  I was always of the opinion that much of her bluster is just a defense mechanism because she is clearly out of her element in the world so to speak.  That's the crappy part of the whole thing: you really watch her progess into some sense of emotional maturity then BAM! the DR happens.

I don't think I ever heard that line about how a person can't change their destiny and she never accepted it.  Maybe I just don't remember it or was too busy doing something else.  That actually would explain her antagonism toward those she viewed as either "weak" or those who allowed themselves to be corraled though.

I'm willing to cut Morrigan slack on some of this, because if freedom becomes sort an overarching theme of DA, depending on how its handled, I can support that.

[Terra_Ex]

Hmm... in the Greagoir conversation there's a line in here regarding Wynne confronting the PC if they are a blood mage that will never trigger, might as well fix that as well. I do vaguely recall some other mod fixing the Wynne issue, but whatever.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 08 mai 2010 - 04:53 .

[Barbarossa2010]

[quote]Terra_Ex wrote...

[quote]Barbarossa2010 wrote...
I love the complexity of RPGs now that I've gotten used to it.  I've really taken to it, and have learned to nurture my inner nerd.  I would hate to see DA dumbed-down in complexity and depth.  I already feel that ME2 was a little too heavy with the axe on the stats management and RPG elements of the game...Wow, talking about irony, I never thought I would say that.  In all honesty, I would hate to see that trend continue. 

What can I say? I'm the epitome of human duality and contradiction.

Sorry, just felt the need to clarify. [/quote]
Barbarossa, you really should look into playing the Baldurs Gate series (the PC versions) and Planescape: Torment. If you can get past the somewhat dated graphics you'll find a fantastic series of rpgs. You will love the twists in Planescape, though it is extremely text heavy and combat-lite.

[quote]

You know, I went to a used game shop and bought BGI and BGII for XBOX, but was told by Brockololly that they were not the same, so I haven't played them.  I may do it anyway, but unless they are the real games you guys always talk about, I have no real interest.  So until I get a new PC and purchase BG for it, I'll probably hold off. 

Now I have gone on to play ME and ME2 of course, and am doing a full third playthrough at present on ME with 2nd playthrough coming up on ME2.  I am loving me some Mass Effect.

I have bought Oblivion and Fallout3 to see what Bethesda has to offer, so those are next up in the que.

I did play Godfather2 and Fable2 on the side to get a flavor for what was available out there.  Both were mildly amusing, but I will say that Godfather was pretty engrossing and being a shooter, certainly held my interest until complete. It was not dialogue heavy, but it was pretty fun.  Leveling was reduced to basically purchasing weapon licenses and it was easy after all is said and done.  It was a gas playing a Don bouncing between NY, Cuba , and Miami in the late 50's/early 60's.  Fable 2 actually had great graphics, and although it was childishly easy and you can immediatley sense it was designed for extremely casual gamers, I was left wondering why DA couldn't pull that level of graphic quality off.

There's not much available for the 360, so after I slug my way through Oblivion and Fallout3, I was looking at buying "Two Worlds" and "Risen" next.  "Divinity" did not look interesting to me.  Any comments on these and should I save for something else?

The PC will come, and I will take your advise when I do it.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 08 mai 2010 - 04:48 .

[Terra_Ex]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

You know, I went to a used game shop and bought BGI and BGII for XBOX, but was told by Brockololly that they were not the same, so I haven't played them.  I may do it anyway, but unless they are the real games you guys always talk about, I have no real interest.  So until I get a new PC and purchase BG for it, I'll probably hold off. 

I have bought Oblivion and Fallout3 to see what Bethesda has to offer, so those are next up in the que.
...
Fable 2 actually had great graphics, and although it was childishly easy and you can immediatley sense it was designed for extremely casual gamers, I was left wondering why DA couldn't pull that level of graphic quality off.

There's not much available for the 360, so after I slug my way through Oblivion and Fallout3, I was looking at buying "Two Worlds" and "Risen" next.  "Divinity" did not look interesting to me.  Any comments on these and should I save for something else?

The PC will come, and I will take your advise when I do it.

Yeah, the xbox versions of Baldurs Gate are completely separate games. You don't need a decent system to run the PC versions though.

Fable 2 was a nice idea, with inconsistent execution - classic Molyneux. Fable 3 is apparently focusing on the new Natel nonsense so I expect more casual times ahead for the series.

Fallout 3 is fantastic, Oblivion likewise, both sandbox rpgs though so don't expect fantastic dialogue from them, there's plenty to do in both games though so I'd definitely be sure to play them asap. Two Worlds supposedly has severe framerate issues so I would advise against it. I've not played Risen or Divinity 2 yet. If you wanna try a jrpg, Tales of Vesperia is not too bad I suppose, there's not a great deal of rpgs to choose from on the 360 tbh.


Back to Morrigan - does anyone have a save right before this conversation with Greagoir / right before the battle with Uldred? Need to test some stuff and have no saves nearby. Needs to be a save where Morrigan is in the active party,

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 08 mai 2010 - 05:22 .

[Brockololly]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

You know, I went to a used game shop and bought BGI and BGII for XBOX, but was told by Brockololly that they were not the same, so I haven't played them.  I may do it anyway, but unless they are the real games you guys always talk about, I have no real interest.  So until I get a new PC and purchase BG for it, I'll probably hold off. 

Now I have gone on to play ME and ME2 of course, and am doing a full third playthrough at present on ME with 2nd playthrough coming up on ME2.  I am loving me some Mass Effect.

I have bought Oblivion and Fallout3 to see what Bethesda has to offer, so those are next up in the que.

 Fable 2 actually had great graphics, and although it was childishly easy and you can immediatley sense it was designed for extremely casual gamers, I was left wondering why DA couldn't pull that level of graphic quality off.

As far as Baldur's Gate goes I think the console ones' official titles are Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance or something. I remember playing them back in the day on Xbox- they aren't bad for hack and slash games, but they are not anything close to the Baldur's Gate games on the PC. They're really night and day.  FWIW, BG1 and BG2 (and its expansion, Throne of Bhaal) don't require much in the way of computing power at all. So yeah, its not like you'll need some beastly gaming PC for either of them.

I enjoyed Oblivion and Fallout3- the thing with Bethesda games is that the main story and the characters won't be nearly as memorable as the ones in Bioware games but its the sandbox world that is so awesome IMO. Thats the awesome thing with Bethesda's sandbox games is that if you can see someplace, you can go there.

I only played a little of Fable 2 before giving up on it. Fable 1 wasn't anything overly complicated, but they just over simplified everything I thought. As for the graphics, thats one thing that bugs me in Dragon Age. The graphics are not bad (at least on PC) by any stretch of the imagination, but  compare it to most other modern games and something just seems off. For example, I was playing through the Deep Roads the other day and one thing that bugs me there is the lighting. If we're supposed to be in a cave system deep underground, shouldn't it be dark? I just think the Deep Roads could have been alot more interesting if they were a bit darker and scarier that way.

I really think the lighting system and a lot of the textures need an overhaul in DA. Many of the textures just seem very flat- again using the Deep Roads as an example, the Darkspawn corruption goo should look all slimy and stuff, no? I just think back to Dead Space- they got the moody lighting great there and the alien goo looks all slimy and disgusting.

Hopefully DA2 looks a little better than Origins...

[Giggles_Manically]

Just a quick question but was Morrigan ruined for any of you after your first playthrough?

When she said the whole reason she was there was to get a god child, I can not take any of here dialouge to heart anymore. Kind of hurt to be realized I got lied to and tricked the entire game.

[Addai]

Terra_Ex wrote...

Back to Morrigan - does anyone have a save right before this conversation with Greagoir / right before the battle with Uldred? Need to test some stuff and have no saves nearby. Needs to be a save where Morrigan is in the active party,

I have one before Uldred.  Will PM you a link shortly.

It would take me a bit longer to get one before talking to Greagoir since I didn't have a save near there.

[blademaster7]

Terra_Ex wrote...

Hmm... in the Greagoir conversation there's a line in here regarding Wynne confronting the PC if they are a blood mage that will never trigger, might as well fix that as well. I do vaguely recall some other mod fixing the Wynne issue, but whatever.

There is already a mod for that iirc.

Speaking of Wynne, I think found something in the toolset that is not in the game(surprise surprise). I also found about a thousand bugs in Leliana's romance, but I don't know how to mod...

I wish there were more people willing to fix all the bugs.

[Addai]

Terra_Ex wrote...

Back to Morrigan - does anyone have a save right before this conversation with Greagoir / right before the battle with Uldred? Need to test some stuff and have no saves nearby. Needs to be a save where Morrigan is in the active party,

Pre-Greagoir save on its way shortly, too.

[Terra_Ex]

blademaster7 wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...

Hmm... in the Greagoir conversation there's a line in here regarding Wynne confronting the PC if they are a blood mage that will never trigger, might as well fix that as well. I do vaguely recall some other mod fixing the Wynne issue, but whatever.

There is already a mod for that iirc.

I thought as much, I'll have to fix it in my mod as well or I'm sure someone
will complain.

blademaster7 wrote...
Speaking of Wynne, I think found something in the toolset that is not in the game(surprise surprise). I also found about a thousand bugs in Leliana's romance, but I don't know how to mod...

I wish there were more people willing to fix all the bugs.

It is somewhat troubling that several months after the game's release we have thousands of armor mods, nude mods, etc yet hardly anyone attempts to address dialogue bugs despite that being the heart of the game - Morrigan especially seems to have scenes cut all over the place and nobody seems to care . I'm gonna have to sort out the headtracking, animations and cameras for the morrigan apostate scene - it doesn't look all that good as is, will probably need to make a cutscene for the wolf transformation stuff too.

[Master Shiori]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Just a quick question but was Morrigan ruined for any of you after your first playthrough?
When she said the whole reason she was there was to get a god child, I can not take any of here dialouge to heart anymore. Kind of hurt to be realized I got lied to and tricked the entire game.

If you romance her she will admit that the god child was her initial reason for coming with you. It was during your adventures that she developes feelings for your character and now sees the dark ritual as a way of saving your life.

When she offers the ritual to you, there is the option of asking "is this why you've been so friendly to me?". This will cause her to admit that she does love you (provided your aproval with her is at "love").

You can also get more info about her feelings when you talk to her at Denerim's gates during the farewell speech to your companions. Morrigan actually displays a great deal of sorrow and regret over the fact that you need to part ways.

And no, you didn't get tricked. She may not have told you the whole truth about why Flemeth sent her to acompany you, but she didn't lie about her feelings for you.

[Addai]

blademaster7 wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...

Hmm... in the Greagoir conversation there's a line in here regarding Wynne confronting the PC if they are a blood mage that will never trigger, might as well fix that as well. I do vaguely recall some other mod fixing the Wynne issue, but whatever.

There is already a mod for that iirc.

You mean the confrontation if Wynne sees you using blood magic abilities?  I believe that that is addressed in an optional Dialogue Tweaks fix.

Speaking of Wynne, I think found something in the toolset that is not in the game(surprise surprise).

Do tell?

[Master Shiori]

Terra_Ex wrote...

It is somewhat troubling that several months after the game's release we have thousands of armor mods, nude mods, etc yet hardly anyone attempts to address dialogue bugs despite that being the heart of the game - Morrigan especially seems to have scenes cut all over the place and nobody seems to care . I'm gonna have to sort out the headtracking, animations and cameras for the morrigan apostate scene - it doesn't look all that good as is, will probably need to make a cutscene for the wolf transformation stuff too.

And this is why we truly apreciate all the effort you've put into restoring the cut content for Morrigan.

Without dedicated modders such as yourself, who truly care about the charatcers, we would never get the chance to experience all the beautiful content that was originaly denied to us.

So let me thank you again, on behalf of all us gratefull Morri fans, for taking the time an effort to restore these things.

[blademaster7]

Addai67 wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...

Hmm... in the Greagoir conversation there's a line in here regarding Wynne confronting the PC if they are a blood mage that will never trigger, might as well fix that as well. I do vaguely recall some other mod fixing the Wynne issue, but whatever.

There is already a mod for that iirc.

You mean the confrontation if Wynne sees you using blood magic abilities?  I believe that that is addressed in an optional Dialogue Tweaks fix.

Speaking of Wynne, I think found something in the toolset that is not in the game(surprise surprise).

Do tell?

If you haven't decided what to do with Connor  you can ask her:  "Is there anything that can be done for a possessed mage?" and she'll tell you about the lyrium ritual. You can ask Morrigan the exact same thing. Morrigan's dialogue is there but I haven't seen the option to ask Wynne in my previous game.

According to the toolset, it should be there. I may be wrong though. Has anyone managed to ask Wynne about this?

Modifié par blademaster7, 08 mai 2010 - 08:08 .