16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

blademaster7 wrote...
You can ask her:  "Is there anything that can be done for a possessed mage?" and she'll tell you about the lyrium ritual. You can ask Morrigan the exact same thing. Morrigan's dialogue is there but I haven't seen the option to ask Wynne in my previous game.

According to the toolset, it should be there. I may be wrong though. Has anyone managed to ask Wynne about this?

Haven't seen anything like that.

[blademaster7]

Well, in my last playthrough I didn't have a mage in my party(if you do they'll bring up the ritual when you speak to Isolde) and Jowan was dead. I told them that I'll find another way and Teagan suggested that I speak with a mage. So I went back to camp and Morrigan told me the process of killing the demon(entering the fade with lyrium). Wynne didn't have anything to say.

Modifié par blademaster7, 08 mai 2010 - 08:14 .

[Barbarossa2010]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Just a quick question but was Morrigan ruined for any of you after your first playthrough?
When she said the whole reason she was there was to get a god child, I can not take any of here dialouge to heart anymore. Kind of hurt to be realized I got lied to and tricked the entire game.

I'm probably the one here closest to you on this.  I do not like how the Dark Ritual was presented...AT ALL!  It screamed contrived and forced, leveraging a character's "feelings" for Morrigan to hook you to the sequel.  Some writers use subtlety, with love and loss as the theme; I felt none of that in DA:O...just beaten over the head with a sledgehammer.  It came across completely unnatural for a romancing Warden as has been outlined more than once in this thread.

My Warden too felt betrayal, primarily because he was not allowed to affect the situation, either positively or negatively and pretty much had to remain silent and choose between living as a chump; dying as a martyr; or allowing the woman he "loved" to sleep with another man.  Pretty sh!++# choices all the way around after a 3-4 day in-game effort.  I'm a bit of a contrarian in that, I don't see Morrigan necessarily in-character during the DR, as I do more of a contrived plot hammer (a thread metaphor).

So in a way, her character was a bit ruined for me, but I am willing to give BW a chance to redeem her (really the writers to redeem themselves).  ((And it better be a damn good reason that she was allowed to remain so unnaturally silent when presenting a Grey Warden with this bizarre Ritual to atract the "essence" of an Archdemon)).

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 08 mai 2010 - 08:40 .

[Terra_Ex]

blademaster7 wrote...

Well, in my last playthrough I didn't have a mage in my party(if you do they'll bring up the ritual when you speak to Isolde) and Jowan was dead. I told them that I'll find another way and Teagan suggested that I speak with a mage. So I went back to camp and Morrigan told me the process of killing the demon(entering the fade with lyrium). Wynne didn't have anything to say.

The line will never appear as there is no code behind the WYNNE_MAIN_CAN_ASK_ABOUT_CONNOR_RITUAL flag.
 Another example of the coders just not bothering to put it in. Its quite annoying as the people that coded the engine and whatnot are obviously really decent coders, yet the people who were handling these simple scripts are... not so good. It's relatively simple to fix however, 2 minutes work at most.

Anyway, enough about old Wynne, I'm currently tweaking this scene, I reckon I'm gonna rework the camera if you choose to turn Morri in since otherwise its too zoomed out to get any emotion out of the chars. Here's my current setup for when the first part of the dialog when you turn her in, still in the process of tweaking it however. Plus, Morri has no gestures or anything for most of this scene so I'm having to add those in as I go along...



And the vanilla camera positions are like so, not too impressive imo:




If anyone has any thoughts regarding the camera work or whatnot involved in the scene let me know.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 08 mai 2010 - 09:12 .

[blademaster7]

You fixed it already? Wow.

I would expect Alistair to drop on the floor and start laughing his ass off...but oh well, you can't have everything...

[Terra_Ex]

lol, it would be amusing if Alistair had some comment to make in this scene



There's quite a bit to do yet, the main issue is gonna be the wolf transformation - specifically, I'm wondering whether to have her move toward the big doors where you enter the tower (she's right next to them already so that might not look too good) or run off inside the tower. I think having her run toward the main entrance and fade away might look a bit... stupid. Could always disguise it with some camera work though...

[blademaster7]

I'm guessing she was supposed to transform into a bird and fly away.

I'm saying that because that was the original intention for the DR. I don't quite remember who said it but I'm sure I read somewhere that the "eve of the final battle" was originally intended to take place at camp. Morrigan was supposed to be waiting for you in your tent to tell you about the DR and in case you refuse, she'll turn into a bird and fly away.

You can see some notes in the toolset about the bird-transformation thingy....

Your avatar is creepy btw...

I also just started a male mage for the first time(always played females for this origin).... I can't believe how stupid he looks wearing those robes and waving a staff... <_<

Modifié par blademaster7, 08 mai 2010 - 09:58 .

[Axekix]

Terra_Ex wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

Well, in my last playthrough I didn't have a mage in my party(if you do they'll bring up the ritual when you speak to Isolde) and Jowan was dead. I told them that I'll find another way and Teagan suggested that I speak with a mage. So I went back to camp and Morrigan told me the process of killing the demon(entering the fade with lyrium). Wynne didn't have anything to say.

The line will never appear as there is no code behind the WYNNE_MAIN_CAN_ASK_ABOUT_CONNOR_RITUAL flag.
 Another example of the coders just not bothering to put it in. Its quite annoying as the people that coded the engine and whatnot are obviously really decent coders, yet the people who were handling these simple scripts are... not so good. It's relatively simple to fix however, 2 minutes work at most.

Anyway, enough about old Wynne, I'm currently tweaking this scene, I reckon I'm gonna rework the camera if you choose to turn Morri in since otherwise its too zoomed out to get any emotion out of the chars. Here's my current setup for when the first part of the dialog when you turn her in, still in the process of tweaking it however. Plus, Morri has no gestures or anything for most of this scene so I'm having to add those in as I go along...

*snip*


If anyone has any thoughts regarding the camera work or whatnot involved in the scene let me know.

Oh wow... I didn't even know you could do that! 

What dialogue did you take for that, and what happens afterwards?

[Master Shiori]

Terra_Ex wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

Well, in my last playthrough I didn't have a mage in my party(if you do they'll bring up the ritual when you speak to Isolde) and Jowan was dead. I told them that I'll find another way and Teagan suggested that I speak with a mage. So I went back to camp and Morrigan told me the process of killing the demon(entering the fade with lyrium). Wynne didn't have anything to say.

The line will never appear as there is no code behind the WYNNE_MAIN_CAN_ASK_ABOUT_CONNOR_RITUAL flag.
 Another example of the coders just not bothering to put it in. Its quite annoying as the people that coded the engine and whatnot are obviously really decent coders, yet the people who were handling these simple scripts are... not so good. It's relatively simple to fix however, 2 minutes work at most.

Anyway, enough about old Wynne, I'm currently tweaking this scene, I reckon I'm gonna rework the camera if you choose to turn Morri in since otherwise its too zoomed out to get any emotion out of the chars. Here's my current setup for when the first part of the dialog when you turn her in, still in the process of tweaking it however. Plus, Morri has no gestures or anything for most of this scene so I'm having to add those in as I go along...



And the vanilla camera positions are like so, not too impressive imo:




If anyone has any thoughts regarding the camera work or whatnot involved in the scene let me know.

Camera angle appears to be better in the first screenshot, since you can actually see the fear on poor Morri's face.

My guess is that it would be best to focus on Morrigan's face when she's speaking then switch to group shot (like in second pic) when pc and Gregoir are talking.

[Brockololly]

blademaster7 wrote...

I'm guessing she was supposed to transform into a bird and fly away.

I'm saying that because that was the original intention for the DR. I don't quite remember who said it but I'm sure I read somewhere that the "eve of the final battle" was originally intended to take place at camp. Morrigan was supposed to be waiting for you in your tent to tell you about the DR and in case you refuse, she'll turn into a bird and fly away.

You can see some notes in the toolset about the bird-transformation thingy....

I think I recall Gaider mentioning the whole bird transformation thing in one of the old threads about Morrigan- that she was supposed to turn into a bird and fly away if you turned her down with the DR.

I also recall one of the writers (Gaider I think) mentioning how the Dark Ritual was supposed to take place at camp outside of Denerim on the eve of battle, not at Redcliffe. But sadly that got cut and they just smushed the DR into Redcliffe. Would have made more sense at camp, as MOrrigan still says that the DR is something that takes place "on the eve of battle," yet it presumably takes at least a day or 2 to get to Denerim from Redcliffe. Ah well...

[Terra_Ex]

blademaster7 wrote...

I'm guessing she was supposed to transform into a bird and fly away.

I'm saying that because that was the original intention for the DR. I don't quite remember who said it but I'm sure I read somewhere that the "eve of the final battle" was originally intended to take place at camp. Morrigan was supposed to be waiting for you in your tent to tell you about the DR and in case you refuse, she'll turn into a bird and fly away.

You can see some notes in the toolset about the bird-transformation thingy....

First I've heard of this... got a filename that I can look up?

blademaster7 wrote...
Your avatar is creepy btw...

I also just started a male mage for the first time(always played females for this origin).... I can't believe how stupid he looks wearing those robes and waving a staff... <_<

lol, the avatar rescaling and unflattering light makes Terra Cousland look more evil than she is in-game She's an innocent rose amidst the thorns I tell you...

Day trip to the swamp to listen to some batty old lady telling stories:



she has a fondness for flowers




But if you ask of her tragic past (or tell she looks evil/creepy) she gets a bit upset and bad things happen:





And she will simply feign innocence.




Err... anyway, enough thread hijacking for now

Axekix wrote...
Oh
wow... I didn't even know you could do that! 

What dialogue did
you take for that, and what happens afterwards?

You can't access this dialogue branch in the vanilla game, it was cut due to lack of time apparently. I'm restoring the scene atm.

Master Shiori wrote...

Camera
angle appears to be better in the first screenshot, since you can
actually see the fear on poor Morri's face.

My guess is that it
would be best to focus on Morrigan's face when she's speaking then
switch to group shot (like in second pic) when pc and Gregoir are
talking.

I'm glad you agree with my line of thinking Master Shiori, took a while to get a camera position that I was happy with. The second shot is the default camera defined by the devs, which isn't the optimum view for watching Morri/Greagoir and the Warden's expressions. I'll be going for camera shots along the lines of number 1 throughout the scene I think.

[Barbarossa2010]

Brockololly wrote...

I also recall one of the writers (Gaider I think) mentioning how the Dark Ritual was supposed to take place at camp outside of Denerim on the eve of battle, not at Redcliffe. But sadly that got cut and they just smushed the DR into Redcliffe. Would have made more sense at camp, as MOrrigan still says that the DR is something that takes place "on the eve of battle," yet it presumably takes at least a day or 2 to get to Denerim from Redcliffe. Ah well...

Yes, it was Gaider and he said exactly that.  Would have felt a bit more natural...I would have still hated it as presented in the vanilla game mind you...but at least the timing would have felt more natural.

[Barbarossa2010]

Terra_Ex wrote...

lol, the avatar rescaling and unflattering light makes Terra Cousland look more evil than she is in-game She's an innocent rose amidst the thorns I tell you...

I think she looks positively bad ass..in a pink-eyed, innocent sort of way.

[Vicious]

SADLY the ritual was supposed to be a lot different if you romanced Morrigan, and her doing the ritual would come off less as powerhungry and more 'something she HAS to do' like a duty to stick the soul of an immortal [but killable lol] dragon into her child. Because really, that's all an Archdemon/Old God is.





But like many things, the expanded ritual got cut due to time constraints. I can only imagine how it must upset a writer who intends events to be portrayed one way and they are portrayed completely different - like Loghain, meant to be a tragic hero, yet is portrayed through 90% of the game as a stock moustache twirling nutjob.





So yeah, it sucks. But it's pretty clear that the ritual is the way the story is 'supposed' to go, in the long run. Changing things makes better sequels than maintianing the status quo.

[Brockololly]

Vicious wrote...

SADLY the ritual was supposed to be a lot different if you romanced Morrigan, and her doing the ritual would come off less as powerhungry and more 'something she HAS to do' like a duty to stick the soul of an immortal [but killable lol] dragon into her child. Because really, that's all an Archdemon/Old God is.

Well, I'd argue for the sake of discussion that we really don't know what exactly an Old God really is. At least in their uncorrupted form- sure the Old Gods could just be High Dragons, but like so much else in DA, we're just going off of the codex for info, which is written within the game from very subjective sources.

Vicious wrote...
But like many things, the expanded ritual got cut due to time constraints. I can only imagine how it must upset a writer who intends events to be portrayed one way and they are portrayed completely different - like Loghain, meant to be a tragic hero, yet is portrayed through 90% of the game as a stock moustache twirling nutjob.


So yeah, it sucks. But it's pretty clear that the ritual is the way the story is 'supposed' to go, in the long run. Changing things makes better sequels than maintianing the status quo.

Yup- I think it was in the interview with Gaider from a little while back where he mentioned one of the most frustrating things as a writer having to make cuts. But I agree, the cuts that they made to the DR (IMO) come really, really close to almost ruining the whole Morrigan romance- and undoubtedly the sudden shift in character we see there DID ruin the romance and her character for alot of people. I know its the end of games that get cut down due to crunchtime and all but making those sorts of cuts doesn't play well in a story heavy game like DAO. You might be able to get away with that in your typical FPS or action game, but in a story/character driven RPG predicated on player choice, the ending has got to be the strongest part of the game, otherwise you'll just ****** off a lot of people that just invested 80+ hours of their life into the game only to get a crummy ending.

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Vicious wrote...

SADLY the ritual was supposed to be a lot different if you romanced Morrigan, and her doing the ritual would come off less as powerhungry and more 'something she HAS to do' like a duty to stick the soul of an immortal [but killable lol] dragon into her child. Because really, that's all an Archdemon/Old God is.

Well, I'd argue for the sake of discussion that we really don't know what exactly an Old God really is. At least in their uncorrupted form- sure the Old Gods could just be High Dragons, but like so much else in DA, we're just going off of the codex for info, which is written within the game from very subjective sources.

Vicious wrote...
But like many things, the expanded ritual got cut due to time constraints. I can only imagine how it must upset a writer who intends events to be portrayed one way and they are portrayed completely different - like Loghain, meant to be a tragic hero, yet is portrayed through 90% of the game as a stock moustache twirling nutjob.


So yeah, it sucks. But it's pretty clear that the ritual is the way the story is 'supposed' to go, in the long run. Changing things makes better sequels than maintianing the status quo.

Yup- I think it was in the interview with Gaider from a little while back where he mentioned one of the most frustrating things as a writer having to make cuts. But I agree, the cuts that they made to the DR (IMO) come really, really close to almost ruining the whole Morrigan romance- and undoubtedly the sudden shift in character we see there DID ruin the romance and her character for alot of people. I know its the end of games that get cut down due to crunchtime and all but making those sorts of cuts doesn't play well in a story heavy game like DAO. You might be able to get away with that in your typical FPS or action game, but in a story/character driven RPG predicated on player choice, the ending has got to be the strongest part of the game, otherwise you'll just ****** off a lot of people that just invested 80+ hours of their life into the game only to get a crummy ending.

Well said.

Hopefully Bioware makes it up to us in DA2.

Currently,the whole ending to Morri's romance is extremely frustrating and leaves a bad taste in ones mouth.

@Terra_X

Where do you get those weapons and armor for your chars?

Are you making them in Winter Forge or is that some kind of mod?

[blademaster7]

Master Shiori wrote...

@Terra_X

Where do you get those weapons and armor for your chars?

Are you making them in Winter Forge or is that some kind of mod?

The armor is from the Shadow Warden's armor mod.

Wearing that in the Korcari Wilds makes the game way too easy, me thinks.... Try soloing it with a 2-H warrior wearing a Tier 2 medium armor and wielding the iron Greatsword you picked up from your origin.

Anyway... did you check the banter Terra? I don't know how to hear the voice acting in the toolset for banter. I also  found the sounds your companions make if you click on them. I wanna hear the chuckilng of Leliana and Morrigan damnit!

[Terra_Ex]

Yeah, the armor is the Shadow Warden armor, I had to mess about with the script file for it to get it to work since 1.03 seems to have broken the spawn script. Sleeves are from the Amy Outfit (Amy is from Soul Calibur) - these sadly clip through part of the shadow warden armor's mesh so I'd like to edit that at some point. One of her weapons in Amy's rapier from the aforementioned mod, the other is a standard



I'm using Nightmare plus atm, and if things get too easy I can adjust the enemy scaling in the GDA file but I don't think I'll try a solo run anytime soon



Regarding banters:

The "I am not fond of sharing" line is voiced - not sure if it triggers though, the flag checks look good, it should trigger.

The "I see you continue to be where you are not welcome" is voiced, flag checks look good.

The line "You can't possibly think he will prefer you" is voiced, and flag checks look good.



I have not checked the banter in-game yet as I sadly have exams and other assignments due next week which I have to focus on and I need to stop getting distracted by DA modding , by the weekend however I should have considerably more free time, possibly even enough to sort out Leliana's dialogues, we shall see. If there is a problem with these banters triggering its probably on the Leliana side of things.

[blademaster7]

But how can you listen to the banter from the toolset?



Those 3 you mentioned are in the game. There are two more.

[Terra_Ex]

More banter stuff...

The Line "So he has chosen you. you think this is a triumph" is voiced & should trigger fine. It requires Leliana to be "In love" - ie: very high approval to trigger.

The Line "The way you look at him so intently, so hungrily..." is voiced & should trigger fine. flag checks look good.


I'll check all of these in-game later this week just to be sure.


There is however a Morrigan banter regarding Alistair that will never trigger as is, amusingly marked TBD in the script (lets face it, a lot of stuff was still "to be done") From the looks of the code this shouldn't be triggering in the vanilla game. This is supposed to trigger if the relationship between Alistair and the Warden is ended during (maybe after? not sure I'm not an Alistair romance expert) the landsmeet, 'tis most amusing


Morrigan:
So am I to understand that you two have ended your relationship?

Alistair:
Shut up. That is none of your business.

Morrigan:
What? No questions allowed? You do not wish your motivations--

Alistair:
I said shut up. I will run this sword through you, I am not joking.

Morrigan:
Ooo, I see. Most serious, then.

Alistair:
This discussion is over.


----


I'll fix this for the next release of the Morrigan Restoration Patch, since it's governed by Morrigan's flags

This banter file probably needs going over with a fine tooth comb though, I don't doubt there's more stuff in here failing to trigger.

Anyway, I have some work to do...

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 09 mai 2010 - 11:49 .

[Shade of Wolf]

Master Shiori wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

Brock... the banter with Wynne and the situation with kitty was something I brought up in a thread months ago.

For a woman that values freedom she's pretty content with letting a demon posses a little girl. And all sorts of other things(anvil... Caladrious offer with the elven slaves etc).

Just to be clear, I do not think she will end up just like Flemeth. It just reinforces my suspicion that not even the writers themselves know what to do with her. That, or they do love to have the audience speculate about all sorts of things.

The part with Kitty is strange and, I feel, out of character for Morrigan who really isn't fond of demons.

The anvil part is pure pragmatism. Branka, Oghren and other Dwarves tell you how the Anvil kept the Darkspawn at bay for a century and what a powerful artifact it was. Cosidering you're gathering allies and need every help you can get would make keeping the anvil a smart choice. It was used to defeat the Darkspawn once and could do so again.

Caladrious was also pretty much in character. The Elves were obviously weak enough to allow themselves to be captured and threated as merchandise and sacrificing them to empower the Warden would make your future efforts against the Darkspawn easier.

While it cannot be said that Morrigan is evil, she isn't a good person either. She believes in survival of the fittest, in fighting for what you believe and is above all a pragmatist, which explains why a moralistic idealist like Alistair would dislike her. She does somewhat soften her views under your characters influence, but you cannot change her completely.

I don't think it's fair to say Morrigan isn't a good person because she believes in survival of the fittest, it's a philosophy she follows, you could esily say the same for Leliana for believing in the evil maker who leaves his children to suffer lol.

[Terra_Ex]

blademaster7 wrote...

But how can you listen to the banter from the toolset?

Those 3 you mentioned are in the game. There are two more.

Sorry, didn't see this, you need to assign a stage to the dialog branch in the "Cinematics" tab, I use "cli400st_riordan" as my stage since that has a place for all the characters.

Then you have to map the required actors tags to a stage place in the list that will have appeared below (still on the cinematics tab).

After mapping the actors to a stage place, use the preview line command as usual.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 09 mai 2010 - 12:16 .

[Brockololly]

Terra_Ex wrote...


There is however a Morrigan banter regarding Alistair that will never trigger as is, amusingly marked TBD in the script (lets face it, a lot of stuff was still "to be done") From the looks of the code this shouldn't be triggering in the vanilla game. This is supposed to trigger if the relationship between Alistair and the Warden is ended during (maybe after? not sure I'm not an Alistair romance expert) the landsmeet, 'tis most amusing


Morrigan:
So am I to understand that you two have ended your relationship?

Alistair:
Shut up. That is none of your business.

Morrigan:
What? No questions allowed? You do not wish your motivations--

Alistair:
I said shut up. I will run this sword through you, I am not joking.

Morrigan:
Ooo, I see. Most serious, then.

Alistair:
This discussion is over.

.

I remember that dialogue from one of Aimo's cool little animations of the banter:

[Terra_Ex]

Brockololly wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...

There is however a Morrigan banter regarding Alistair that will never trigger as is, amusingly marked TBD in the script (lets face it, a lot of stuff was still "to be done") From the looks of the code this shouldn't be triggering in the vanilla game. This is supposed to trigger if the relationship between Alistair and the Warden is ended during (maybe after? not sure I'm not an Alistair romance expert) the landsmeet, 'tis most amusing


Morrigan:
So am I to understand that you two have ended your relationship?

Alistair:
Shut up. That is none of your business.

Morrigan:
What? No questions allowed? You do not wish your motivations--

Alistair:
I said shut up. I will run this sword through you, I am not joking.

Morrigan:
Ooo, I see. Most serious, then.

Alistair:
This discussion is over.

.

I remember that dialogue from one of Aimo's cool little animations of the banter:

Ah, I knew I'd heard that exchange somewhere before, and I knew it wasn't in game - that must have been where I heard it originally. It's been a slow day on the morri thread... and i have nothing new to report atm, unless blademaster has made any new discoveries?